Bomb Hole Group Chat #16 With Jeremy Jones, Caleb Flowers & Josh Fisher

[@Sandals-WithSocks]

The sunglasses inside told me everything I needed to know

[@Jenni_14theworkshop]

A few thoughts on the “information garage” discussion: Firstly, as an average customer, snowboarding doesn't seem inaccessible to me price-wise. Yes, it can be pricey, but there are gear options for almost every budget-as you’ve already pointed out. What would have made it more accessible for me, though, is getting free or significantly cheaper lessons. The first five days on a snowboard are horrible when you don’t know what you’re doing yet. Beyond that my biggest challenge as a beginner isn’t the cost of bindings or the market share of any brand. Instead, it’s the three-hour drive to the nearest ski resort, the ellbow mentality on the mountain (damn skiers!), and the lack of a lively, welcoming community in my area. These were the things that almost made me give up, not the gear. I might be wrong, but maybe you’re mixing up challenges faced by customers with the struggles of an emerging company? Anyway, solid episode as always-thanks for the thought-provoking discussion!

[@TheBombHole]

Great thought here, gear is only part of an average snowboarder’s experience. Thanks for watching!

[@IHatePikeys]

well done. super fkn underrated comment...Greatest safety asset in snowboarding is knowing how to fkn ride, control your board, and hold an edge...Shops could stand out from online brands by creating venues to actually educate and teach people how a snowboard actually works and how to actually control it, learn how to ride, and progress....

[@pinky882]

@@IHatePikeys The only way to do that (ride and progress) is to ride, though. A coach helps, but time on board is the most important element, IMHO.

[@IHatePikeys]

@@pinky882 true, but lessons are ridiculous expensive and inaccessible. You can ride for 20 seasons and still suck though without having the knowledge and fundamentals.

[@thelumpya2]

It's funny, Caleb sure seems like he's aiming his "Venture Capitalist" anger at Burton, but they're a privately owned company.

[@picassodegallo]

Union Flite and Burton Freestyle bindings are $180 brand new, not sure what the issue is with there being a premiere option for those who want to spend for it.

[@TheBoarder360]

Of several pairs of Unions, I have a pair of Flites.. I rode them exclusively for 3 years.. they're awesome imo.. especially at their price point.

[@vaseagreen]

No hate, but Caleb's rant lacks any proper analytical thought or perspectives. His perspective is "core snowboarder", no business perspective, no average consumer perspective, no marketing/advertising perspective. Snowboarding now is in a most diverse state it has ever been, both "sport" and product side. He wants the industry to be stuck in 2005, but its 2025.

[@ktvlm3987]

the answer is pow surfing. you dont need a lot of snow or a big hill or much gear.. you just need to hike and try it. its closer to that golf course/backyard hill feel than 3h commute to the mtn, boot up, wait in line, ride a couple laps and hit the bar. for some reason though it seems that a lot of "core" snowboards look down on it as if its something different? its not different and it's so much fun, i mean look at all the skiers that bring a no board with them on trips..

[@rappinron1384]

Old and married now but rode Brighton from 2001-2010 season pass holder. Some of the best times of my life, saw so much shit go down. Stevie cutting me off and throwing a rodeo on the big jump, The Don hitting the boxes, so many stories. Love this culture, always in my heart.

[@lukespeers5468]

SECOND HALF GETS HEATED UP BOYS !!!!! its all love, and Chris, good composure boss.

[@griffinedmonds]

Caleb is so close. Monteck and Dope snow cutting into Burtons margins on direct to consumer outerwear forcing them to lean in on high end high margin products where they own the patent, likely at the detriment of the industry long term is spot on. Additionally, I think there is a great market opportunity for his "7-ply deck" price point snowboard driven by a cool guy core brand image for the kid who wants to jib or get in the streets but can't justify a $600+ board that he is going to beat up in a season. Diving into bindings seems like it is realistically a money losing operation and his presentation talking points need some work but he's not wrong.

[@6to8john]

Nothing against what Caleb was saying. I think the convo went a little sour when step ons kept getting brought up. We all hear what he’s saying, but it got mis said about keeping the goods at a price point level for the core rider to afford. Side note the binding industry is changing as we know it, and thanks to Burton for always pushing the envelope with R&D it’s forcing the competition to get creative with creation and design. Straps might not be going away anytime soon or maybe never at all, but there is going to be some huge innovations coming this next year or two with bindings. Wild how we can keep innovating such a simple pieces of equipment. I’m all for it, we can’t stop technology from changing, just like we can’t stop innovations from happening. Life and snowboarding would be boring and dull if it was the same Standard all the time. I’m all game for what’s to come in the future.

[@jamrickyson2355]

Caleb had some very valuable points.. crazy that no one's hearing him

[@jimmy_james_jimbo]

Chris makes a great point at 2:09...there is SO much choice in snowboarding right now. Respectfully, it is difficult to follow the problem that Flowers was trying to illustrate. I don't think Burton or ski brands are where the energy should be focused, rather I want to see brands take back share from Dope/Montec. Can we get Johan and Flowers on the show together, imagine that banter?!

[@tributeboardshop]

Sadly , most new consumers are being taught to buy online , not from a good shop - so the dope / montec thing will continue as we remove shops from the equation - there is no one to educate those new to snowboarding .

[@IHatePikeys]

Not sure about the hilarious hate towards Dope this country...Dope is a Swedish/Scandinavian brand built from a Scandinavian perspective on snow sports. Weird how cool and core Burton and Information Garage are for being built "in the garage", but when two Swedish brothers who are snowboarders...Shit! Dope was started by snowboarders...decide to build a brand from their bedroom because they were sick of importing big brands Like TNF with tariffs and import issues with their online store...somehow Dope is not cool lol...Sven Thorgren(legitAf street, first triple rodeo and triple michalchuk), Jesper Tjader, Jordane Legal (74_Jordy) ride for Dope by choice...they're as core as it gets.

[@IHatePikeys]

@@tributeboardshop One way you could evolve as a shop beyond online brands is create a venue for teaching people how a snowboard actually works and how to actual ride a snowboard and not just selling it....The mob owned instructor industry is bloated with BS information.

[@jimmy_james_jimbo]

@@IHatePikeys Thanks for educating me. In the US Montec/Dope are not marketed as such and they come off as a fast fashion brand. They also don't advertise in core snow sports here, like the Bombhole, but it seems like the brand is marketed differently in Europe. Thx!

[@IHatePikeys]

@@jimmy_james_jimbo It thinks it marketed the same via the site...but its taken in a different perspective by Europe. In Europe rich dudes with $10000 Bogner snow suits will snowboard to blow off steam and have fun no different than us. Its all fun.

[@TheBoarder360]

fascinating words about Forum and the rebirth... I knew JJ had left Forum, it's a shame the circumstances seem to have been sub-optimal. Great episode.. so far!!

[@TheBombHole]

Glad we could have Jeremy on to explain what happened versus random Instagram comments!

[@quinnjlphillips]

Lmao at "ride over a dumpster at night with eyeliner on"

[@TonyMadrid-g9z]

Is homie cooked?

[@ebaybudtender72]

Homies cooked

[@zachary949]

I dont think flowers knows how patents work

[@nathankudla3261]

My interpretation of what Caleb was getting at with the bindings is that he is concerned that if Burton keeps heavily pushing for step ins, as the industry leader other binding companies will also invest in step ins. Overtime this may cause a majority of the market to become step in bindings. So maybe 10 years down the road it may be difficult to get into the strap in bindings game as a new company because most of the main factories don’t make strap binding supplies. It may become too high of a price barrier to try to make strap bindings because you would have to design/manufacture all the equipment yourself. Ultimately leading to a market where strap in bindings are scarce and more customers feel the need to buy expensive step in set ups. The caveat is it’s still so early with step ins and they may never get that popular and the consumer may ultimately drive the market back to strap in binding. I really enjoyed that debate. Thanks!

[@Kevin.M.Anderson]

Yo! I was at the Beatdown and it was fire 🔥….i wouldn’t have stood outside in that artic blast at Loon for anything else! Thanks for the dope event!

[@TheBoarder360]

Caleb makes some interesting points... they were kind lost in a sea of wtf tho

[@johnmitchell4732]

Homeboy Caleb seems to be a bit jaded/butthurt about it maybe being a little harder for him to get into making bindings and snowboards for his own profit lol. But he's using the guise of snowboarding not being accessible as his main gripe. I'd say the number one barrier to entry is buying one of those super cheap passes whether it's ikon or epic. Also, be happy with the culture that you have and still have. There's still so much flavor in snowboarding compared to how much the culture of skiing has faded over the past 30 years(not that it ever compared to snowboard culture). And maybe Mr Caleb is trying to safeguard against that shift that skiing has seen, so that part is understandable.

[@chrisreid7723]

Big hype, work meetings are over - time to get locked into this group chat

[@TheBombHole]

Count this as a meeting

[@chrisreid7723]

@@TheBombHole no doubt, the banter gets heavy and I for one think there are much needed topics being discussed.

[@Hvnta]

Who loves Kanye more Emmett Davis and Vishnu or Caleb and IG

[@11savagesoldier]

Hahaha

[@michaelcoradi3334]

Best nostalgia I could relate to is cheap left tickets😂 smh

[@6to8john]

Binding discussion was a little wack. Got kinda lost. If the dude wants to make dope cheap bindings without going bankrupt more power. With R&D expenses, paying employees, making some kind of revenue is the end goal along with getting more people on the snow. But bottom line is, brands gotta make money to stay alive.

[@jimmy_james_jimbo]

To quote Caleb, "100%"

[@sarahlankford7072]

I think the gear talk conversation is assuming that consumers arent independent thinkers and cannot make decisions for themselves and rely on marketing to guide them…Maybe I am speaking out of turn since I am not in the marketing world and seeing the numbers..but just a thought.

[@benjaminpellegrino4241]

2:14:25

[@TheBoarder360]

Absolutely - the problem statement was non-existent! People who want step ons will buy them.. the rest of us won't - the market isn't being forced down a step -on or nothing road.. hahaha!!! An interesting if ultimately bullshit tangent 😛

[@LagmasterB]

55:27 shout out Benny!!

[@HGibberish]

FASE about to change the whole tune of the step-in talk here soon.

[@TheChriszimmer36]

love the market share and accessiblity conversation. i feel like snowboard brands get too much blame for snowboarding being inacessbile because there are a ton of lower price options now that ride great. if there were more lower price lift ticket options that would make a bigger difference. also, how many people do we want snowboarding? the resorts seem crowded enough as it is

[@portershredz]

Agree with Chris, Rav is an enigma. He absolutely radiates positive energy.

[@TheBombHole]

The RAV-olution will be televised!

[@c-dublife]

as an old forum guy, i was bummed to hear about the split. side bar, get Heine on the podcast.

[@AustinHelmer-yy3wk]

Straight up, We need that episode. Triple OG

[@Jotorunskisnowboarding]

Dude… that was a long useless conversation.The dude hit the bong a little to hard before getting on the mic. Rest of the chat was great as usual.

[@TheBurtonian]

You can get a deasent setup for about 250$ second hand.

[@TheBurtonian]

@2:05 I think alot of StepOn users are not people who are not bathered to bend over. I use them on my local hill. There is about 1 to 2 minute runs here and a 4 min Tbar up. I do alot of shapeing here (its no official park crew) and i manage a group of 20 kids learning to ride rails and small booters. Im in and out of the board like 50 times a day. On a bigger resort I use straps. I also se alot of familys/ friendgroups where 1 or 2 members have snowboards an alot of them use stepons to keep up with the skiiers. StepOns is great for this reasons.

[@smaggio13]

I believe Picture This/Double Decade time, Andreas Wiig was on Nitro!

[@TheBombHole]

You are correct

[@bikesnboards91]

Yoooo Fisher!

[@sudsnowboarding286]

i just rewatched the louif part of search party three times could find the "sw back nosepress to sw back wallride" jeremy was talking about for trick of the year am i just stupid or whats going on

[@quinnjlphillips]

100% agree with Jeremy on street boarding, I also recently heard the call with Johan and what he said about street boarding and it's been on my mind. I think it's honestly somewhat ignorant to downplay street boarding, it's a huge market from a business perspective (how many places are there for street boarding, that you don't need to buy a pass for?) it's highly important in snowboarding history, and once again it is more accessible to many more people than resort riding. I honestly love Capita as a brand because they make amazing product, but I think those comments and the general attitude may come back to bite the brand.

[@jbrorbs82]

Trivia, Andreas did ride for Nitro

[@TheBombHole]

You are correct

[@clifford_2zero7]

Pipe glove are where its at 💯 Im not a fan of big thick gloves nor mittens. Remember those grease monkey gloves? I was so bummed when mine disappeared i still have that one though😂 i keep shit🤷‍♂️ i have a dakine glove from 2010 ish i still wear nothing feels like that anymore. I just had to stitch it up and honestly after going through half dozen new gloves last season ive contemplated bringing those gloves to a custom glove maker and having them construct one very similar to it if possible. Im very picky with gear especially gloves😂

[@jbrorbs82]

Wow... that Info Garage section was a rough listen

[@c-dublife]

jf pelchat and NOW bindings are a prime example of technology and success in the binding world. I know NOW is part of YES currently.

[@codylorentz3144]

This is my opinion. I think what got me turned off by forum was how they decided to go back with old designs and model names. I kinda remember how Jeremy was saying the logo was staying the same board they wanted to take it a different direction. I might be wrong.

[@NOTsteveberra22]

Anytime Jones is on You know it’s gonna be good! solid episode, kinda going through Sage withdrawals though his vibe is unmatched😂

[@TheBoarder360]

Fuck yeah... we need more Sage!

[@Petepedro]

I think maybe Caleb was talking about the proprietary ecosystem in burtons product line and how if they hold 90% percent of the market share, plus the patents on that ecosystem, it’s much more difficult for upstart brands to reach that market share. Partially due to burtons customer retention due to the prop eco, even though stepons don’t really perform as well(in a if it ain’t broke don’t fix it type of way). But it’s something Burton has done since 3 hole mounts (hehe). Like he’s frustrated by Burton blocking out the rest of companies from the first and second time buyer market. Maybe

[@raylewis7221]

Caleb deserves a rebate on this convo down the road. There’s some important points in there that just got too contentious with Burton in the room imo

[@CPoon0420]

this group chat is sponsored by preparation H

[@ktvlm3987]

whoevers got the most gout wins!

[@TheBombHole]

Doctor's note necessary hahaha

[@Chuckinlead]

Thats a sharp looking loon mtn hoodie

[@TheBombHole]

Freshie after our weekend at Loon for Bomb Hole Beat Down!

[@Chuckinlead]

@TheBombHole i know you guys were the talk of the town thanks for comming to nh and getting a reminder of what ice and cold really are ; )

[@josephgcharlton]

Please spit your gum out before talking on the bomb hole

[@liftedcivilian3117]

Pivot

[@AustinHelmer-yy3wk]

WAITING FOR THE HEINE EPISODE!!

[@Jrod32391]

Jeremy saying his son lol

[@SteepTurns]

First comment baby

[@TheBombHole]

🏆

[@gregory49]

Respect to Caleb for asking the right questions and sharing some thoughts that could be considered provocative but doing it anyway.

[@clifford_2zero7]

BAR UP FFS I cannot stand the bar down!!!😂 I respect it if others want it down but avoid it at all costs. Its not meant for us!😅

[@11savagesoldier]

If there's a foot rest bar down all the way all the time

[@elischasalazar9793]

Caleb really articulates his thoughts or a point well. More interviews bro!

[@TonyMadrid-g9z]

Is homie cooked?

[@TonyMadrid-g9z]

Is homie cooked?

[@TonyMadrid-g9z]

Is homie cooked?

[@TonyMadrid-g9z]

Is homie cooked?

[@TonyMadrid-g9z]

Is homie cooked?