Are English Dubs Censoring Anime?

[@TheCartoonCipher]

Edit: PHOTOSENSITIVITY WARNING: FLASHING LIGHTS FROM 15:32 - 16:00 I agree this video is way too long.

[@Reetonzzz]

I enjoyed sitting back and watching for half an hour.

[@Tacom4ster]

Make it longer next time, I like long essays

[@Jeffanime1]

I loved it! If anything I wish it were longer!

[@andrewbowe4638]

Where's the video list huh?

[@eyeizarandummugga]

Kind of a long-winded explanation for something you could watch with subtitles. I kid but yeah, nice vid essay.

[@gansmith]

My German teacher would often tell us: "When conveying a message from one language to another, it's much more important to adapt the words to fit another language than it is to just translate it. If you focus on translating instead of adapting, your message just comes out like Google translate garble. It's ok to lose or change some words as long as the message itself remains intact." Change that more accurately conveys the message to another culture is adaptation. Change that morphs or obstructs the real message is censorship.

[@megapulsar9244]

This little quote here couldn't be more appropriate, from a language teacher. It's so appropriate and true that it practically falls under common sense for anybody at this point.

[@flameshana9]

My teacher used to tell me: common sense.

[@thenew4559]

I definitely agree on this one, that is a great way of explaining it.

[@teyik448]

Agreed, people who say 'you must be faithful to the subtitles!!!!' honestly needs to keep this message in mind

[@lpfan4491]

I was taught english with the message of "As accurate as possible, as free as nessesary." Basically, putting it into the most faithful form possible. Not literally enough as to where it would warp the meaning and sound like google translate, but also not changing the actual message presented unless the languagestructure does not allow it. Obviously, this mindset only applies to languages with shared grammarforms and direct equivalents(like english to german or the other way around.). translating from japanese to english is another matter entirely because the grammardiffrence is basically a slotmachine and many words either have no counterpart in the other language or the officially recognised counterpart in itseöf does not convey the same meaning.

[@Fizzlepop72]

I noticed this dubbing done right, ironically with a 90's anime. In the era of terrible dubs, Yu Yu Hakusho made a great one that adhered to the spirit of the original show, but made some changes to dialog that weren't censorship, but would help the characters personalities shine through better in English. Yet, there were also horrible dubs like the 4kids ones.

[@Just_a_Tool]

Yu Yu Hakusho still is one of my favorite dubs and my preferred way of watching it. I felt like Hiei's quiet and emotionless nature comes through well.

[@Bowiiihowdy]

cowboy bebop is another example of a great dub

[@DarkSymphony777]

For all it's flaws 4kids did give us Kirby right back at ya! Which was probably the best dub they ever did. Though considering the competition that's not saying a lot

[@ssjgotenks2009]

4 kid sis not hroble dub the ators are gre tont like btichs on creak like japesne ones do and tv ruels sya you conoenr shit if air in mronig you want unconsot yuou y ari ti alte night it ruel in us dude so the do it

[@muslimmetalman]

Darksymphony777 Pokémon dub is identical to the Japanese in vocal characterization & replaced only the opening/ending songs

[@bocodamondo]

4:41 beside this, another big problem in yugioh (also gx and 5ds) dub and other dbs like funimation DBZ, pokemon etc i really hate is when a character starts speaks when they are off screen, wich obviously wasnt in the original, they kept doing that to add corny one liners and avoid silence for some reason (this was the biggest problem i had with dbz funimation dub, since even the OST was specifically designed to avoid any moment of silence and have constant noise)

[@PepperKatLancer]

they do that cause they get payed by the word.

[@Spookii4th]

Hey boco, I hope your doing ok

[@burksaurus9410]

Yeah, I remember this was really common in the English dub of Digimon Adventure to Tamers

[@johnleone1996]

Luckily, this doesn't happen nearly as much anymore

[@RegalPixelKing]

Why are you not more popular? The editing alone made this video outstanding, but having one of the most well thought out scripts that I ever heard made this video truly fantastic.

[@Hypeathon]

Because unfortunately... a) Anime dubs to many are often devalued by default, even amongst other intellectual Anitubers who will just mention dubs in passing whenever they feel like it. b) Because they’re devalued by so many anime fans, nearly all are... incapable of having more in-depth discussions about dubs beyond the same 3 single-sentence responses. -I don’t like when dubs add politics where they don’t belong -The best dubs are YuYu Hakusho, Cowboy Bebop & Ghost Stories -I prefer dubs that are like the Japanese version but in English I mean, how else could it be that the Cartoon Cipher provides well-researched arguments that challenge people’s perceptions on dubs only for everything they say to automatically go in one ear and out the other?

[@fatrown3]

Note: I appreciate translator notes. It's like the tidbit learning you get from playing games like persona 3-5 (see classroom prompts).

[@kaydwessie296]

Same, I used to even read the extra ones they'd put in the DVD booklets

[@lpfan4491]

I like translator notes when they are used to explain a concept. But they can also be used incorrectly.(we all know the "All went according to plan"-meme from death note)

[@danielantony1882]

​@@lpfan4491Honestly, eiðer style of translation can go wrong. But I personally þink transliteration of honorifics should be a standard to some extent. Ðey're already creeping into English anyway. And English is a language ðat likes adopting foreign words so ðere's no reason not to, unless it breaks ðe grammar. Ðere's so much cool stuff too.

[@mrchips23711]

To me, having Al call Ed "brother" in the FMA dub felt like they'd effectively added a dialogue quirk to him that wasn't there originally. Being to-the-letter isn't always the most accurate decision.

[@TheCartoonCipher]

mrchips2301 that’s true but other people would argue it’s okay because it makes Al seem more honour-bound to his elder brother which is consistent with his character.

[@Fizzlepop72]

@@TheCartoonCipher I agree with you on that aspect. I always enjoyed it, because it put more emphasis on their bond as siblings.

[@sangheilicommander1056]

As a child this spome to me i have a older brother and i called him brother everyday i still do then when we watched the show i connected with AL right away. It was me the little brother who was bigger and called the short one brother :) . i never related to a character like i did al

[@Nightman221k]

I love the "brother" translation but was horrified by one manga dubbing company's choice to have Al call Edward, "bro." It's a fine line these translators need to toe cause a change like that makes Al go from a respectful, polite little brother to sounding like a thickheaded surfer dude, which is beyond wrong for the character.

[@oxfordcommaisthegreatest]

@@Nightman221k Wassup, bruh?? We gon find dat philosopher's stone! Up top!

[@Alias_Anybody]

I think a common issue with videos analysing this is that they almost never contrast and compare a) Japanese dubs of English speaking media, b) dubs from Japanese into other languages (especially those with a strong dub culture like German, French and Spanish) and c) English media into other languages. How do those handle it? What can be learned or avoided? I have the feeling that many radical purists are actually monolingual and have no idea about accurate translations.

[@narudayo5053]

I can speak for France I'm french. Anime is a big thing in the country (we are the worldwide 2nd manga consumer after all hehehe), Club Dorothé a kids tv show for kids bought a bunch of anime back then (around 1980), they were mostly well translate, only the anime with a lot of violence or things like City Hunter or Hokuto no Ken had the bad translations (because some politicians said that anime were violent, and those people are still hated today, they were not happy that the tv broadcsated too much anime, and then those tv channel switch to broadcast american cartoons by the pression). And then for shoujo anime most of them had the same meaning, the only thing being changes are the names of the characters and the mention of alcool removed. But yet it's also depended of the company buying those anime. If Club Dorothé changed and made things a bit goofy, it was not the same for other anime. For exemple here is list of anime that did good translations, keeping the names and such: - Great Teacher Onizuka - Captain Harlock - Saint Seiya - Sugar sugar rune (they will sometimes switch between the japanese or french op) - One piece - Detective Conan - Dragon ball Z (we only had one opening of dragon ball being change, but the other seasons and such kept their japanese opening) - Ojamajou doremi (they change some name but most of them sound the same or have the same meaning) A list of few who keep the anime translations and only change the names to make them sound french: - Card captor sakura - Mirmo - Hamtaro - Inazuma 11 - Captain Tsubasa And of course the 4 kids dubs and anime that were licences when american company licensed them : Sailor moon, Yugi oh, Beyblade and Pokémon. Pretty sure that if it was not for 4kids, we would have had the japanese version of the thing just sing in french like they did for Inazuma Eleven. etc... After club Dorothée closed in 1997, all anime we got in here all got good translations. But most shoujo who came first had the name changes in french, other genre of name were not touched by that. And since around 2005 all new anime that came had their translations sync with the original names and such. So we are pretty good with dub here. Anime are airing in regular tv stations at certain times and period, there is anime like naruto or shoujo in kids channels, we had one regular channels who is part of biggest french channels group here (France 4) who was airing kids cartoons or old shoujo anime in lunch time and seinen anime at night but it's got terminated because no money, and there is anime and japan centered channels, you can buy anime and manga in a library or a hypermarket who have a library or sometimes in 2nd hande video games shops, etc etc (to note that manga in France are released the same way that they are in Japan with a folder). And to add my proudness of being a french baguette weeb, when I was in middle school (around 2011), pretty much half of the school were into manga, all of the girls into manga were yaoi fan, the headmaster herself was into it and even install manga in the shcool library (there were things like Death note, fairy tail, and such, I visited the school last year, and they now have shells just for manga) and I don't even live in a big city but in a semi countryside one.

[@ZachX888]

Covering all those topics sounds nice but I dont wanna watch a video that's 4 hours long.

[@ExtremeWreck]

Problem is, The 1982 Bulgarian Treasure Planet movie is a thing & it's weird as heck.

[@flu3b93]

The example you gave from Cowboy Bebop was really symbolic. Translation, and dubbing, is a extremely complex craft.

[@TrekPythonChild001]

Super late, I know, but I wanted to put my two cents in as someone who's actively studying Japanese to become a manga translator. Adapting dialogue into dialogue is obviously a very different beast from adapting written word into written word (even if most of what's written is dialogue, too). I always look at my translations first as "what's going to read best to the English speaker while remaining as close as possible to the original Japanese sentiment?" and second as "is there a greater context going on here that can further inform and shift my choice of English words?" The piece about the debate over the line from the Cowboy Bebop movie was really excellent. My personal interpretation would have been about the same as the second translator's: "Watch what's going to happen in this purgatory." But, as with what the ADR writer said, the way that the character refers to "this world" throughout the preceding portions of the film would, in my opinion, be the most important thing to consider once the general translation's been established. "This world of yours" comes off as practically equivalent to "this purgatory," both in delivery and the character's previous literal word choices. I feel like it all just needs to align as best it can, and from there, a translator should tap into their extensive primary language vocabulary and finesse it to the best possible polish.

[@OBrasilo]

You are making a mistake when you work based on the assumption the reader is a native English speaker - English translations are consumed worldwide now, so it's best not to assume anything.

[@Flugmorph]

@@OBrasilo doesn't really make a difference either way.

[@OBrasilo]

@@Flugmorph It does, to most of the world, for example, imperial units are more foreign than the metric units used by Japan. And stuff like US school terms, make no sense anyway in the context of a Japanee school system, and have in fact caused stories to get messed up when used wrong - eg. in HyperTagmension Blanc and Neptune vs. Zombies, they translated Japanese school years into US school terms, turning Rom and Ram who were 3rd year middle school, into "freshman" because US high school starts a year earlier, this caused many people to not understand why, despict they defact joined the high school film club, they did not count as members, meanwhile in Japanese it makes perfect sense - they did not count because they were still in middle school.

[@Flugmorph]

@@OBrasilo that wasn't what was talked about in this comment chain tho was it.

[@JasonDS64]

After looking through the comment section . . . Some of you really need to watch the video before commenting lol.

[@jabon_99]

Why aren't there more views on this this is amazing

[@thapoint09]

But that's _haaaaaaaaaaaard!_

[@ladygrey4113]

Don't a lot of foreign countries dub American movies though? Dubbing and interpreting is an art not a science.

[@thangvitanh]

There is also narration, where they get an old lady who used to read war propaganda on the radio to narrate movies.

[@kanchomerocks12]

Yeah, but that is a much easier thing to do

[@buster3041]

@xrelik Of course that's what they want. I've heard people praising a series for it's dub completely rewriting the story and they loved it. Samurai pizza cats. Supposedly no one gives a damn about the source material and anyone that dies know of it says the source is very bland and that, while the dub totally butchers as a translation, it's more memorable and entertaining. Also people praise this old anime called ghost stories for it's dub for the same reasons they do samurai pizza cats dub minus rewriting the story.

[@nihoggr2392]

But art is a science. Sure a toilet can be art and so can banging a stick on a beer can be art but artists like musicians, writers and painters have for centuries trying to master their arts by researching what colors look nice together, what sound don't make our ears ring and how to structure a story and that's why we have schools to regurgitate that knowledge of the basics to make our own art without having to start from a blank page. Sure many of these things are almost common knowledge these days so many might not see them as a science but even then the modern artists are still researching art and you can still see their results everywhere like Blair Witch Project which ATLEAST popularized the found footage style of movies where we follow the usually hand held camera instead of the actors from different shots or just simple things like how japanese artist realized that having huge eyes on characters are more appealing than small eyes which pretty much made anime what it is today.

[@leemcdonald1342]

And Japan has the nerve of changing Hikaru Sulu's surname to Kato. Because Japanese doesn't have a "L" letter. Let me remind you: MR. SULU IS IN STAR TREK! And he's the most famous Japanese-American in media. (Yes, I say Japanese-American, because Hikaru said he was born in San Francisco in Star Trek V. I highly doubt he would become a Japanese citizen because Starfleet HQ is in Marin County, CA (albeit the scenes implied the building is located at Marin Wetlands. #Whoops.) ) So, why do anime fans decry dubbing (especially changing names) when Japan did the same thing to of the biggest Sci-Fi franchises in the world? (I do have proof. #MemoryAlpha has the info. memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Hikaru_Sulu ) Finally, Mr. Sulu and the rest of the TOS cast was in a short-lived cartoon series.

[@StringsNStrands]

Using those yugioh tunes, thank you cipher, very cool

[@grandsome1]

I think the obsession for direct translation and the "one true meaning" comes a lot from monolingual people. When you speak more than one language you understand that there's many ways to tell things and to translate from one language to another you often have to go to extra lengths using completely different words from the direct translation to get the same meaning and impacts on your target language.

[@midmichiganrr24gp9]

Very true. Especially with vastly different languages groups such as an Asian based language (Japanese) to a European based Language (English). As a English, Dutch, and German speaker, those languages can be easily directly translated to each other as they are somewhat similar and the culture are not vastly different as compared to Japanese, which is very different in language and culture and wouldn't be as easily understood and vice versa.

[@flameshana9]

I think it's just immature people. If anyone thinks translating is easy they'd have to have very little experience in the world. Culture and language are by no means uniform. To demand one single set of ideals is really just childish.

So many autists don't understand the difference between literal and accurate. It's frankly impossible to do a 1:1 translation without sounding awkward as hell.

[@Alias_Anybody]

@ I'd argue that in addition to literal and accurate a "good" translation is still a distinct thing. Not everything that's accurate also sounds good in context.

@@Alias_Anybody Exactly. Sometimes sticking too close to the Japanese script makes deliveries nearly impossible to make it sound and flow naturally. Even with a good director or experienced voice talent.

[@Medachod]

My stance is I don't mind adapting jokes that literally only work in Japanese and the general adjusting of talking as a whole. But, anything else I am bothered with. Ever since FUNimation went down the gutter, all I have left is Sentai and VIZ. However, "cute girls doing cute things" anime are objectively better in Japanese.

[@jaheimwilliams7914]

They destroyed issei relationship with rias

[@negimaaddict742]

Exactly, I don't mind dubs, in fact there are some dubs I prefer over the subs, but companies need to be careful when selecting dub actors and treating their script with care. I might be the only one who feels this way but I absolutely hate the english dub of TTGL, Kamina just comes across as a completely different character with the voice actor, and that happens a lot with english dubs, in the Japanese dub he comes a cross as a street punk yakuza like thug that's full of bravado. In the English dub he looses that street punk thug like undertone, I have a similar dissonance with several of the VAs in the My Hero dub.

[@b-41subject57]

Most English dub animes suck too.

[@kukukachu]

Hey man, don't forget you also have Discotekmedia ;)

[@chadtidlund9662]

@@jaheimwilliams7914 Seasons 1 and 2 were dubbed fine. Its around season 3 where the script changes start to become more problematic.

[@kano2444]

In ouran host club, it was the first time I ever heard the term 'sempai' in english but the way the VA delivered the line seemed so natural to me. it was a deadpan "yes, you are an upperclassman, that I should respect... for some reason?" and I could feel its meaning despite not looking up the word for a long time.

[@thenew4559]

That's context clues.

[@isalesme015]

As someone whose first language isn't English, it's kinda weird seeing all this discourse regarding translation of foreign media. Here, most movies and shows are translated from English to Spanish, and there's little to no discussion about whether it's translated properly or overly localized. I guess this happens mostly because Americans are really used to only consuming English speaking media with anime being the one of the few exceptions.

[@ehoba]

this is a totally trivial matter, but "魚へんにブルー"/"write fish and 'buru' " is a reference to Shigeo Nagashima, Mr.Professional Baseball. When he went to a sushi restaurant, he asked a journalist how to write mackerel. The journalist said that it's written as 魚 + 青, then Nagashima said "Hei, Master. Mackerel is written as fishu plus buru"/"ヘイ、マスター　サバはフィッシュ偏にブルーと書くんですよ". Nagashima is the greatest Japanese baseball player, but he is also known for his weird phrases and responses. People love his weird English and Japanese Baseball is a part of the core plot of FLCL, and that's probably why Kitsurubami said that phrase.

[@MixMasterLar]

I like how all he had to do was show Brock. Didn't even need the clip lol

[@ShadowWingTronix]

As someone who grew up with "hack jobs" as you call them I will still defend Robotech even though you couldn't and don't have to try to pull something like it off today. Back then we didn't have the internet, our knowledge of Japanese culture (which still isn't perfect unless you've lived there long enough) was far more limited, but these were stories we would have never seen if they hadn't been altered for an American audience. Robotech was also such a different experience based on the changes made I'd call it no less different that Power Rangers today. It was the success of these shows going back to Gigantor that eventually led to the Japanese animation boom of the 80s, boosted by the rising home video market, and again in the 90s as TV stations saw a cheap to produce product since someone else paid for the more expensive parts already. Now in this century anime is inspiring Western creators but it also is reaching new audiences both in edited forms like Pokemon to reach kids who would be confused by Japanese cultural references and adults via everything else. It comes down to the experience that works best for you and how much you already know about the culture your watching. It should also be noted that Japan has this same discussion for Western productions and how would you demand they see our works?

[@FireFury190]

Oh yeah hackdubs even exist for western properties in Japan too. The best example I can give is Transformers and how made Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and Prime into self-parody comedies thanks to voice director Yoshikazu Iwanami. Such as breaking of the 4th wall, self-aware humor as well as changing character personalities. They were essentially gag dubs with a ton of ad lib. He even took this approach when dubbing Ninja Turtles and Saban's X-Men. Then there's the part where they never even dubbed Prime's 3rd season Beast Hunters. Instead substituting with their own original show Transformers Go. Now dating back G1 they even changed Optimus Prime's name to Convoy as they thought his original name was too hard for Japanese children to say. And you can tell the way they pronounce Optimus Prime is weird ever since they decided to call him by his original name by the time they dubbed Animated. There was even one story element change they did in Beast Wars where instead of Optimus Primal being Optimus Prime's decedent in the original he was instead the original Optimus reincarnated. That's why he still went by the name Convoy.

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

power rangers and pokemon are great hack dubs

[@muslimmetalman]

Haruhi Suzumiya Pokémon is identical to JP VO in vocal characterization and script.

[@dwainsimmons3447]

@@haruhisuzumiya6650 also yugioh

[@dwainsimmons3447]

@@FireFury190 one piece 4kids was a embarrassment

[@AshXXMayftw]

There's only two situations which I'll accept a change in dialogue or overall tone. A. if there's a reference or joke only understood by the Japanese that needs translating to English, and B. if the show is so boring and bad that they turn it into a comedy. Like with Ghost Stories and My First Girlfriend is a Gal. However, if they're like the infamous Prison School Gamergate line, Lucoa's patriarchy line change, or anything like that, nah. That's a no go for me. At the very least stick to what's being said and adapt it accordingly, don't turn it into something different just to earn good boy points.

[@maximo8066]

Exactly you don't hear Japanese citizens say those kinds of words in real life to their boss they would get fired and blacklisted in japan.

[@tigerfestivals5137]

I thought the patriarchy line was funny

[@AshXXMayftw]

@@tigerfestivals5137 I thought it was really cringy, and actually went against Locoa's character.

[@quisqueyanguy120]

@@tigerfestivals5137 No, it was cringy

[@jacobblanton5179]

Your "B" example is a dumbfuck reason to change something too though: "This work is boring(to me) so I approve the original vision being butchered and tossed in the trash to entertain me."

[@themachine430]

I personally am not a fan of using the opportunity in English dubs to bash a contemporary political or social rival. I have no problem with fascinating politics or even offensive jokes, but some of the examples given in the video were examples of lines that felt less like jokes and more like a political jab. Bear in mind though that humor and opinions are subjective though.

[@CriKnight]

That editing is freaking amazing dude. Awesome job.

[@absoul112]

To everybody who makes the “politics” or “agenda” comments about dubs, I’d like to remind you that the three that come to mind are the exception, not the rule. If anyone disagrees, please inform me of other dubs like those three that were made in the last decade. And while we’re on this subject, to anyone who answered “yes” to the title of the video, censorship isn’t just that a change was made. If you want to claim censorship, then look up the definition and see if it actually applies, because it often doesn’t.

[@muslimmetalman]

Also ridiculous & awe inspiringly cynical that the same parasites who sneer at and shit on dubs endlessly have the audacity to use this issue to groom pedophiles in dub fandom. Reminds me of how some gamers would often complain about the appropriation of gamer culture.

[@muslimmetalman]

It’s such sick opportunism.

[@dwainsimmons3447]

How is patriarchy censorship?

[@rhondahoward8025]

Here's another example where a direct English translation of a Japanese joke didn't work, but a looser version that still kept the _spirit_ of the joke worked much better. *The 4kids version of One Piece translated a Japanese joke better than the Funimation dub.* So all the Straw Hats are insulting Zoro and Luffy's insult is the least creative ( _"santoryou"_ ) because it's just a comment on Zoro's three swords. Usopp tells him that's not an insult so Luffy adds one more sword ( _"yontoryou"_ ). Now what 4kids does is have each Straw Hat insult Zoro like this: Chopper: You stink head! Nami: Bird brain! Sanji: Mush brain! Luffy: *Zolo brain!* Usopp: *Luffy! Calling him his own name isn't a diss!* Then they add in Luffy insulting _Usopp_ by using _his_ name instead: Luffy: Usopp brain! Usopp: Try _Luffy_ brain! Funimation tried a direct translation and it came across as really awkward.

[@terrancevanliew1814]

I think this has less to do with culture and more to do with you not finding the original joke funny. It translates just fine. I remember lightly chuckling at that scene when I saw it.

[@AuraLeafstorm]

Actually I think the direct translation of that joke still works in English. Nonetheless I agree with what you're essentially saying; if the direct translation of a joke doesn't work, it's usually better to change it to something that flows more naturally if possible, while still striving to maintain the original spirit of the scene.

[@TheSlipperyNUwUdle]

My favorite dub joke change for 4kids was in pokemon. Misty is screaming and Ash says in the dub “it’s just a cow-terpie” while he’s dressed as a cow. In the original it’s a pun on the fact that mushi (meaning bug) sounds like ushi (meaning cow). I remember as a child I was very confused but I found it funny. A few years ago and after learning a very, very basic Japanese vocab, it suddenly made sense and was even funnier.

[@dwainsimmons3447]

@@terrancevanliew1814 what was the joke in the Funimation dub.

[@dwainsimmons3447]

@@TheSlipperyNUwUdle but most people hated the joke.

[@ItsLynch1]

Me: **reads title** Brock: *What a wonderful donut!*

[@mesousagaby740]

As someone who's owned the Pani Poni Dash dub (I see you used a bit of the Shoujo Q OP there, by the way XD), I can indeed confirm that the dub clearly kinda took a bit to a shift in it's writing on the last 4 episodes (Which were written by Sarah Alys Lindholme, who's currently a translator for FUNimation, and Christine Auten, who has done some ADR Writing work, as well as voicing Mesousa on the show), making it more modern sounding compared to the first 22 episodes (Which were from notorous dub worker Steven Foster). I love the show regardless on each writing style, but I gotta imagine; what if indeed those last 4 episodes would have spreaded around the whole dub? Just figured I could add a bit on that, as, like FLCL, did keep some of the vocal quirks (Such as Himeko saying "Maho~!" and "Omega", although, I noticed that the latter works way better in english.

[@DensetsuVII]

Interesting points as always. I don't know if you're already considering this, but I think the time is long overdue for a few more FLCL style spotlights on dubs that are noteworthy, and analysis of how they handled their translations. I think spotlighting particularly successful efforts beyond the mainstays (as if Shinichiro Watanabe was the only director to ever make anime with western sensibilities) could go a long way in allowing the communities as a whole to accept that 'good' dubs are not an exception to a rule nor a default expectation, but just a possibility given a creative team with good actors and a sense for their material. I'd humbly suggest the new Nichijo dub, which still stumbles over some of the most Japanese of sensibilities, but makes marvelous choices (for example, in changing Nano's "Hakase, that's moe!" scene to a series of cat puns, but still doesn't go even so far as to change Hakase's name to Professor). Additionally, I'd met a few people recently who were fans of Castle of Cagliostro but owing in no small part of Netflix's inability to license it, they have never heard of the Manga dub, which I felt is the definitive Lupin dub perhaps because of its ad-libs and personality, but I don't hear it talked about much anymore. While I certainly come at this biased toward 'good' dubbing, I think that as this video implies, old examples of 90s era hackdubs are still the status quo in the minds of many fans, and drawing attention to more successful adaptive dubs could do well to change that impression (and probably appeal to fans of this channel as well!)

[@TheCartoonCipher]

Currently working on dub spotlights for Baccano and Digimon! As for Nichijou, we have something else prepared for that ^^

[@DensetsuVII]

@@TheCartoonCipher Excellent! Digimon should be particularly interesting - I know it's not really dub related but I hope some time will be spent on the new soundtrack the dub added, as I've always felt very conflicted for losing the marvel that was 'Butter-fly' but I found a lot of the incidental orchestral music works better than originals. Will look forward to it!

[@KingCam20]

Funny how you mention Castle of Calgliostro, because I basically had that exact experience, where I watched it on Netflix and the only option was the old Streamline dub (which at the time I thought was the only dub). I'm gonna be honest though and say that I still haven't watched the Manga dub because I'm just too attached to Bob Bergen's performance in the Streamline dub. I feel like he actually fits pretty well with that rendition of Lupin, what with it trying to be more family friendly and charming and downplaying the more "macabre" elements found in the TV series. That being said, I honestly have no idea what David Hayter's performance actually sounds like, so I can't really make that judgment call of who's better. I'm just reluctant to watch a different dub when I already love the movie with the older one. I guess as a side note, I should mention that Bob Bergen isn't even my favorite voice of Lupin. Tony Oliver is, but he isn't in either of the dubs for Cagliostro, so "what are ya gonna do?"

[@muslimmetalman]

Speaking from experience on r/anime, most anime fans are not necessarily opposed to “hack dubs”, it’s both style & availability that are the issue. Ironically of course, the “hack dubs” are the preferred versions for a lot of people. YGO, Pokémon, DBZ for a few examples, the sub is seen as an anomaly not the norm.

[@muslimmetalman]

Old hack dubs (that are opposed, like 4Kids OP) are used as fandom trivia by younger fans, & things to poke fun at localization with.

[@kieronireikets7884]

One thing people rarely talk about is the "language of your heart", or the language that you grew up with and has the biggest effect on you. There have been scenes that have made me sad in the sub, but I just straight up cried in the sub, because there were spoken words in my native language, not words on a screen that I read instantly. I have nothing against subs, I watch a lot of subs, but dubs will always have bigger emotional impact, especially in the modern day where 90% of dubs have as good of acting as the subs. We're not in the 90s anymore, guys, and this isn't 4Kids.

[@thisisawsome34253212]

In case anyone's wondering about what happened with the English subtitle job for the Cowboy Bebop movie: The dub picked the line shown, but the subs chose the other. So Funimation technically did pick both in the end.

[@TokyoPOPjunkie]

8:51 thank you for reminding me to catch up on Aggretsuko.

[@mysticalpizza3453]

Holy crap, the editing in this video is insane. Props, I felt like I was tripping several times throughout, much appreciated.

[@neptunite5973]

woah, i learned so much through this essay. thanks!

[@lrgogo1517]

Does anyone else notice some C.C. videos are basically just really long crazy-beautiful anime montage AMVs while a guy narrates about the anime industry in the background? It's wild.

[@InfernoPhoenixFX]

1 week later and only 16k views???! This vid is so well done documented.

[@sanders_billy]

THIS is analysis.

[@The.Youtuber.with.no.Name.]

That was such a great video.

[@CarmelPhillipe]

I greatly appreciate the depth, nuance and research that you put into this videos. Reaching out and grabbing info from translators is great journalism. The editing is on point too. Great job!

[@golgarisoul]

HOLYSHIT! I've been wondering how they were going to translate that moment in *Bloom into You* ever since I watch it. I never looked into it, because I forgot to and lacked the enthusiasm to rewatch most anime I already watched sub'd, but here it is!

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

I don't believe in censorship, the creator put it there for a reason.

[@Awesomeisme7000]

I would agree with that unless the idea and stuff did was complete crap

[@andrzejsamorzewski146]

@@Awesomeisme7000 And who will decided that idea is a crap, some ubercensor?

[@elexceer6226]

What if it's haram you Islamphobic

[@kaelanime7750]

I can't stand any form of censorship. Funimation still censors shows and it pisses me off.

[@kylewood4488-b9r]

The Manga and Light Novels give off all the cut out details which animators have to summarize within a certain amount of episodes and time. Basically buy the Manga and Light Novels if you want to see all the explicit uncut content of their stories.

[@iscesp04]

I am so upset this video doesn’t have more views. The editing and production value is so good I want to shit on my hands and clap.

[@LogosSteve]

Love that Ghost in the Shell quote about adapting near the end there.

[@GuyDandy]

THIS EDITING IS GORGEOUS. Excellent video, you've got here.

[@EightThreeEight]

Kristen McGuire had to use the nickname method with Season 2, Episode 4 of Love Live Sunshine as well.

[@Hypeathon]

I want to provide an opposite example NOT to argue that all dubs should do this instead but just to provide some intriguing food-for-thought. In episode 25 of Big Windup, the main character, Ren Mihashi, was texting to one of his former middle school baseball teammates, Shugo Kanno. Unlike the rest of his teammates who expressed animosity towards Mihashi, assuming his pitches were the reason their middle school team lost all of their games, Kanno thought otherwise and actually deeply respects Mihashi. Despite the dub taking various liberties, often to pepper in cussing, slang or other vocabulary akin to how teenage boys would talk and omitting Japanese suffixes like ‘kin’ and ‘chan’, it chose to refer to everyone on a last name basis with some exceptions depending on the relationship. Going back to episode 25 again, this was what subtitles said: Mihashi: “I’m glad I kept playing baseball. Shu-chan, thank you.” Kanno: “What’s this “Shu-chan” all about?! ...He called me by my first name. Like when we were kids! Do your best in the next game too, Ren!” And in the dub... Mihashi: “I’m glad I stuck with baseball. Thank you Shugo.” Kanno: “What? What’s with the Shugo crap?! ...He called me by my first name! Just like when we were kids. Good luck on your next game Ren.” Again, I’m not trying to argue that all dubs should do this. I just think it’s fascinating how despite it taking liberties in other regards with the dialogue, the Big Windup dub was one of those cases that for the most part stuck with the last name basis concept with certain exceptions like the Japanese version. Oh, wait! I almost forgot. In episode 6, Kanno was arguing with his teammates who were losing against Mihashi and his high school baseball team in an exhibition match. And if I recall, one of the teammates Kanno argued with (voiced by Kyle Hebert) talked about how his middle school coach use to refer to Mihashi with a “-kun” suffix while in the dub, he said that the coach “gave him nicknames.” The scene didn’t call to elaborate on any nicknames, but I guess the ADR team at the time weren’t really approaching the matter all that differently from how other dubs like Love Live Sunshine or Bloom into You would handle that last name/first name basis thing. Still, I just wanted to throw that earlier example out there as food-for-thought.

[@makomachine7643]

Very lovely and informative essay, thank you. While I did already consider a lot of points made in this before about Japanese to English representations, I didn't understand the full weight of some of these aspects. More specifically, the use of literal translation and/or dubbing along with just how important ADR can be in the delivery of a line. It's opened a literal other dimension of understanding to think the distance a character appears on screen should effect how the line could sound to the listener. I hope I can take this and look at different lingual representations of anime and other things with much more insight than I had before.

[@THF117]

That was very nuanced and I appreciate the effort to try and bridge the gap and try and make constructive talks happen

[@animelytical8354]

English dubs using Crapenese instead of Engrish is...a dream come true

[@ZeroFighter]

The short answer- in my opinion- is something like this. No, English dubs are not censoring anime; not inherently. It BECOMES censorship when the meaning is intentionally changed to suit someone else's preferences rather than being slightly altered to convey the same, original meaning in a different language. It only becomes censorship when the translators know what the original language was conveying, and it gets rewritten anyway because someone wants a particular message to be conveyed. In recent memory, Dragon Maid suffered this when Jamie Marchi had the English script writers make the character Lucoa into a feminist who gets upset at 'The Patriarchy', and made Kobayashi and her work friend get upset at the idea of cultural appropriation from the cosplay community, even though neither of those things were in the original script. Worse yet is when the animation itself is altered to remove or replace text, or to change how something is displayed. Most commonly, we see blood and critical injuries being covered up, or removed entirely. Then, you have casualties like Cardcaptor Sakura being adapted into Cardcaptors- which I will defend how amazing the English intro song was- and entire episodes were aired out of order, or not aired at all. The episodes that were aired had their scrips altered, some of the scenes were rearranged or removed all together, character names were changed- what we now call Americanization- and all in all, it was just an inferior product as a result of all the tampering and censorship. While we didn't lose much with the censorship of Rika's relationship with Mr. Terada- Rita and... I don't think they ever said Terada's name in Cardcaptors- the fact that it was cut is still censorship. In CCS, when Rika is possessed by the Sword Card, Sakura uses the Illusion Card to show her 'the person she cares for the most'. What she sees is Terada-sensei. In Cardcaptors, Sakura uses Illusion to show her 'what she fears the most'. Again, it's her teacher, but this time, it's because she is afraid of being reprimanded for her poor grades, forcing her to stay after school for extra lessons. That is censorship.

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

i love yugioh zexal when it is subbed

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

Except that the original japanese context of the patriarchal demands scene is better preserved in the dub than it is the sub. People tend to forget that Japan is a bit behind in the equality and feminist movement, it's perfectly acceptable in Japan to not only oggle a "pretty lady" but it's also acceptable and common for OTHER WOMEN to shame girls with larger breasts. She WAS complaining about the sexist nature of society to associate large breasts with being a hyper sexual individual, or in more lay terms... It's NORMAL to call a girl a slut just for having large breasts. Quetzi gets upset over the patriarchal demands, which IS a strange choice considering the baggage that word has due to most of the English audience likely being predisposed to associate the use of patriarchy to "anti male" ideology, which is it's own can of worms, but from the perspective of both brevity and accuracy it was a verbiage worth considering. The original writing was focused on the sexism of society putting her down and the inaccuracy was not that they used patriarchal demands, it was the fact that in the original Kobayashi agreed with the sexism of society and body shamed her. It's kind of the perfect example of why dubs are not always wrong, sometimes a word choice isn't made understanding the full context of what that word means. Much like every person does every day anyway.

[@ZeroFighter]

@@SherrifOfNottingham Either you're a feminist, or you just missed the point completely. Jamie Marchi is an outspoken feminist, and has on multiple occasions had the English scripts- written by North American writers, for North American voice actors, sold to predominantly North American consumers- altered to push feminism. Also, Japan isn't 'behind' in equality, they just don't give a fuck about crybaby bitches who demand double standards. So unless you want to sit there and admit that you demand an entire country to change their culture while also going out of your way to try and understand another country's culture, then please, just use this time to also say you're a hypocrite, and save me the trouble. Japan is not a perfect place, and I could write an entire essay on how I don't like aspects of how it runs, but I'm not about to start demanding they cater to my wants over their own. Finally, in all that bitching, you didn't actually disagree with what I had to say. I said that dubbing itself is not censorship, and that it's only censorship when the meaning is lost. Lucoa may have covered up, but it was not about 'tHe PaTrIaRcHy'. She toned down her exposure because people were always 'saying something to her'. This is just a callback to all the jokes at the character's expense about her body, and her implied- through both cultural perception, AND through her own actions and behavior- promiscuity. This is part of comedy. But when Marchi had the translators change the script for her, the scene loses almost all context, and just feels out of place because it makes Lucoa come off as a feminist, complaining about societal expectations that she's failing to meet, and that she changed her clothing to better meet those expectations, and honestly, that goes against everything the previous eleven episodes taught us about the character. This is further reinforced by the other scene I mentioned that implies cosplay is shameless cultural appropriation which you don't seem to take issue with me calling out, or maybe, you just cannot defend that change to the script, and would like me to just forget about it because it doesn't help your case.

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

Gotta learn to take the art without the context of the artist my dude, otherwise you'll just be a jackass who waves flags because they're incapable of forming their own opinions and views. Toxic people like you are why nobody listens to people that challenge feminists, you're too busy getting hung up on simple things. My point stands, and you've yet to challenge it, retry without resorting to insults.

[@ZeroFighter]

@@SherrifOfNottingham At what point did I throw insults? All I see is points you're not disputing.

[@Vintagesonic1]

I always watch english dubs as long as it's available. This doesn't mean I dont like the original japanese voices, in fact I like both subs and dubs. I watch dubs because I simply cant keep up with the subtitles.

[@d.t.sdimensionstheaterstud4410]

Same

[@justinbrummett]

I'm just too lazy to read subtitles

[@flameshana9]

You're missing out, but not by choice. That's okay, despite how many people will still try and fault you for it.

[@jer1776]

I'd rather take in the art of the show instead of look down at words the whole time. That being said I can do subs if the dub is really that bad or nonexistent but most modern dubs are fine if not pretty damn great.

[@crinsombone5380]

Same. I always appreciated the visuals more and that's what I concentrate on

[@hookerjeans3904]

someone: you can't hear pictures everyone here: image of brock holding rice balls

[@ethanbenner6995]

I think you mean *J E L L Y D O N U T S*

[@CRTurtle]

I’m still currently watching this video whilst writing this comment but I need to say that already this video is mind blowing in terms of quality and editing + very enlightening to learn more about the topic, you’ve done an incredible job producing this in its entirety :) My friend Isla sent me here and I’m glad she did, I look forward to your next video!

[@CRTurtle]

And just to confirm I’ve now finished the video and yes I still stand by my points at how amazing this video truly is!

[@ComputingCode]

When I heard "Toko darling" I was like...ok that's the same VA as Zero Two (from DITF)

[@tylerbregg9332]

Some of the most entertaining moments in anime have been because of the changes dubs make, for me atleast, for instance the panty & stocking anime is okay in sub but hilarious in English, and the refrances to geek culture like back to the future star wars and other things that flow naturally into a conversation in the dub of steins;gate really makes the dub flow and sound better to English speakers. Japanese humor is also kinda unfunny to most Americans who have no idea what they mean, especially if it's some sort of word play using Japanese phrases, Black lagoon, FMA, panty & stocking, and escpacally yu yu hakasho have been elevated because they changed things to better suit american audiences without taking anything out from the story, I say if they keep the sprite of the characters and the story 100% unchanged it shouldn't matter if they change a few jokes, hell most of the times the changes are funnier than the original jokes just adding swearing can make a scene better to me.

[@SadeN_0]

Aside from the actual content, the sheer editing on this video is phenomenal. Bravo.

[@aphotographerfromcaliforni2661]

I have been enlightened. This was a really good video, and you deserve more subs because of how on point your claims are and the evidence you use to back them up👍🏼

[@cloudshadow]

Remember Sonic said Shit in Sonic X

[@kompuglobalhypermega]

Episode 2 for those, who are curious.

[@strikermi9]

As an anime fan who watches both dub and sub , I love them both . back then when I was little shows like beyblade , pokemon , bakugan etc. what made me love anime soon much, especially dubs and I still love dubs to this day . between both version I love them both equally but personally dub wins my heart

[@narggles13]

I know this is an older video so I'm not sure you'll see this comment. I really enjoyed it but I REALLY think that you should add a warning for flashing images from 15:32 to around 16:00 because DEAR LORD as someone with photosensitivity that was absolutely ROUGH and I had to take a 30 minute break from your video and just listen to the audio in case there were any other flashing lights again.

[@kukukachu]

This was brilliant my dude. Absolutely fantastic work.

[@ant3]

First off, you guys always bring up great points and a thorough analysis. I applaud you for going above and beyond with not just the research but the effort put into the visuals is equally as impressive. Top notch KZbin content. Secondly, can you guys finally do some more FLCL videos? I loved what you did for the original and Progressive and would appreciate the same treatment made for Alternative. Also, you did say in your Progressive video that you would do a video talking about how Space Dandy is the spiritual successor to FLCL. If possible I wouldn't mind seeing a video like that happen. Lastly, great work guys. keep it up!

[@DRRRRZ]

damn I love the production value on your videos, you deserve way more subs!

[@shuujinko]

This is a really good solid attempt to get to the bottom of this, it's true that language, intonation, accent and emphasis makes a huge implication as to the mindset of the character.

[@VillainViran]

Mediums changing to avoid controversy makes me want whatever was removed or edited

[@charliekahn4205]

Sonic Adventure 2 did the "no reference context" thing too (by accident). Has anyone played it and do they remember "Teriaaaa!"

[@joehill4094]

in all fairness ghost stories was just trying to save a failed cartoon

[@SlapstickGenius23]

Don’t you both know that Ghost stories was based on a kids novel series?

[@thefierceapatheticblackque2523]

BROCK from POKEMON Edited version by 4Kids 16:11

[@ggdatboi]

I was under the impression that the biggest problem we had with dubs were the examples you gave at exactly 5:25. Didn’t know the community had more problems with them

[@LegatoSkyheart]

This was a wonderful video, the content in it and the editing which I found to be way too good.

[@MysticMindAnalysis]

I've always defended the Shaman King dub because, despite being dubbed by 4Kids, it was relatively untouched compared to a lot of other anime under their licence. Edits to the actual action/animation were minimal, and most of the dialogue changes at least made reference to the original. Like, they outright say that "Trey Racer" is a nickname, and that his real name is Horo Horo. This is changed because the original made a joke about altering the kanji in his name to make a pun that wouldn't work in English. The only major edit I can think of is one shaman who's spirit possessed a doll. Originally, it had a magic gun, but 4kids changed it to a rattle - which makes sense, given that it's, y'know, a doll! That, and they left quite a few Japanese attack names and references from the original in there. Changes are not, by themselves, a bad thing. It's only bad when it ruins the tone of a scene, or takes you out of the experience as a whole. Context matters!

[@dankwaifu2093]

Measuring the level of how detrimental changes are to a dub is a bit subjective depending on the person. A change one person may like or not feel bothered by could upset someone else. I've never seen Shaman King, but I like 4Kids for the most part. The level of changes or edits they make in any season or episode of a show can be so conflicting and inconsistent sometimes that you just have to take them as they come. People rag on them for Brock's jelly doughnuts, but there's also another episode from when they were still dubbing Advanced Battle that Team Rocket mention wanting to eat rice balls. Actual rice balls. 4Kids is weird sometimes.

[@GraveKenshin1991]

From what I can recall Shaman King and Ultimate Muscle were the only ones I could/can say I have no issue with 4Kids dubbing. Everything else they did is subjective on a show by show basis

[@renatendouji388]

What about the musical score changed that absolutely kills the mood of many scenes?

[@MysticMindAnalysis]

@@renatendouji388 I don't remember that TBH.

[@renatendouji388]

@@MysticMindAnalysis Watch episode 40 when the team enters Hao/Zeke's memory for a particularly strong example. Or the final battle in ep 64. I don't mind name or dialogue changes but 4kids has no understanding of mood, poetry or art. It's always LOUD LOUD LOUD

[@KirbyJason210]

Can’t believe I just discovered this video…. The editing is amazing.

[@SkullyX99]

I stopped watching dubbed a long time ago. Too many butt hurt ppl in the media industry here in the US. *cough* Funimation.

[@kylewood4488-b9r]

Exactly. The only dub I watch are the old untouched ones like Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, and Yu Yu Hakasho

[@thenew4559]

@@kylewood4488-b9r , one of my favorite dubs of all time is the dub of Space Dandy, it just fits the show perfectly. Space Dandy's dub is definitely better than the subbed version, it is really the only way for english-speaking viewers to watch it. I also agree on the classics, several of them just have great and nostalgic dubs.

[@Hypeathon]

What does that have to what this video was touching on, ASIDE from the fact it had to do with dubs (some of their videos talk about dubs, yes, but each tackle different aspects of the process and the industry)?

[@SkullyX99]

@@Hypeathon The point is. I'm a *monster* that doesn't care about aspect. We have ever increasing corrpution in the dub industry. And it *will* get worse.

[@NanoscopicSize]

Ehh I still watch dub :)

[@AtmonTheExectioner]

Still remember Manga's subs on Naruto 1:1 where every time someone said ramen the sub would say pot noodle.

[@OmniscientWarrior]

More accurate than jelly filled doughnuts.

[@monrque]

Dubs are important. There are whole groups of people who are unable to read subtitles for various medical reasons. I am a visually impaired person and there are many who are blind. There are also people who are unable to read subtitles because of other various reasons. It is a blessing to have a good dub. I grew up in the era of awful dubbing so I can definitely appreciate when it is done well. I don't mind dubbing as long as they don't change things for their political leanings. As long as they don't go sjw wacko on the content. I kind of like the older days of dubbing when a series was finished in the Japanese run and then the people who were dubbing it in English actually got to watch the show subtitled. That gave them a whole experience as far as the emotional content and the feel of the show. I know that it would mean that dubbing would go slower but I believe it made things a whole lot better for it.

[@TeamChaosPrez]

the editing in this video is absolutely hypnotic

[@anoncopter]

This was really impressive. I can’t believe content like this is free.

[@Katt1721]

Dubs will always be changing in regards to how they adapt scripts, and it is always a creative choice in some capacity. Sometimes that's how that director or studio normally does things, and other times it comes down the the type of show itself. You're much less likely to find literal Japanese language aspects in shows that are fantasies or take place in a western setting for example. To see how much naming conventions have changed, look at Fruits Basket (2019), which has a mix of literal and adapted name choices. Yuki addresses Tohru as "Miss Honda" instead of Honda or Honda-san, primarily out of nostalgia most likely, but the dub does keep the last name basis until otherwise changed (Tohru calling Yuki "Soma" for a while) or certain honorifics for nicknames like Uo-chan/Hana-chan. All those choices are very different to how the same issues were handled in 2001. And I think its very possible to still enjoy a dub despite it not taking whatever you're preferred approach is. Case in point: I really like the Bloom Into You dub, even though I disagree with the choice to have the characters use each other's first names from the get go. Would have been a lot easier to just stick with last names like most dubs do nowadays. The only thing I really hate seeing are subtitle translator's notes, unless its for on-screen text. And regarding scenes that involve English in the Japanese dialogue, I feel like I've seen it all. Some ignore it or make a joke (Steins;Gate). The Psycho-Pass movie changed the detail completely by turning the translating device into a voice identifier. Cardcaptor Sakura: Clear Card changed it to French. Black Lagoon actually fixed a scene where the main character was meant to be a translator, but you just heard Japanese being translated... back into Japanese again. In the dub, there were actually multiple languages being heard. Banana Fish and Vinland Saga have similar problem scenes, but alas, no dub for either of those properties (yet). Its always really interesting to me to see what the ADR writers come up with for those moments.

[@Sargonarhes]

Sometimes the censorship is more that just the words being said. We're talking about anime being blurred, cropped or other means of covering characters, yes I know anime does that even on TV. However the DVDs or Blu Rays are usually released without such edits, but lately we've been seeing anime in the US with some titles with these edits still on the discs. Even when paying to watch it on a streaming service it's still the censored version, why are we paying for this? For the dialogue changes I blame that on this rush to simulcast makes the translation rushed, so they're not necessarily going to get the best or most accurate translation. However they never seem to go back and fix the mistake and Funimation seems to have become public enemy #1 in these practices of censorship. Years ago the anime we got was mostly already over a year old and translators had time to get the wording correct for the translation, those days are long gone and I find myself wishing they'd go back to it so we could get the right translation rather than a sloppy hack job of it.

[@SuperGameFan77]

whats the anime at 25:08 before Devilman? and where is the clip of a girl pulling a guy out of a blackboard at 26:30 from? This is Killing me.

[@bowmanruto]

25:08 is definitely black lagoon, I personally have no idea what the anime at 26:30 is so I hope someone else can help you out with that one

[@unknownsecret1000]

Yeah the first one is Black Lagoon. The other one is Hyouka

[@TheCartoonCipher]

bowmanruto Hyouka

[@pixelmayhem1143]

I don't mind that changes are made in the Dub so long as the context is still adhered to. Of course I'm a lot more forgiving about said changes than most I think.

[@flameshana9]

Probably because you're not a nitpicker like so many people are these days. I've watched the same episode of a show translated by 4 or more groups. Each one brought something good to the table. It's impossible to make a perfect script or translation because tastes vary and language is complex. As such, being a nitpicker just means you demand something adheres strictly to your own personal ideals. Which is saying that art can ONLY be expressed one way and not another. That's just pointless. You'll always be missing out. It would be like saying one language is better than another. No it isn't. There's so many ways of expressing the same thing that are ALL good. There's lots of bad ways, but you shouldn't demand your views be catered to.

[@pixelmayhem1143]

@@flameshana9 Agreed, I'm just happy that a show gets dubbed in the first place because I find reading subtitles very frustrating. Mostly because they take away your attention on what is happening on the screen. And being someone who enjoys and appreciates animation this isn't ideal for obvious reasons. Personally though, I'm not a speed reader so I find subtitles flash by too fast most of the time so I usually end up pausing the video very often just so I can read them. So... Yeah, always appreciate a Dub when it comes along ;)

[@DaidriveCJ]

This was a very thoughtful, nuanced, wonderfully expressed and informative video.

[@ItsLynch1]

“Ghost stories” **weezes**

[@tylerbregg9332]

Each dub is different in quality, you got your cowboy bebops which sound better than the sub and keep the original spirt of it, and you got dubs like yu yu hakasho, black lagoon, and panty & stocking for making the dialog sound more natural with great voice acting and dialog changes that elevate it to where the sub can't compare. Then you got death note, code geass, and my hero academia. which sound just as good as the sub. Some are better some are just as good and very few are worse nowadays, but it'll always be subjective no matter what, however the stupid stigma that anime fans push onto people who're new to anime that subs are always better is something that should be stopped, it should always be a case by case basis. A new fan might prefer the dub but be told to watch it in sub and force themselves to read subtitles and miss a bunch of action because of it. What I'm saying is dubs aren't always worse than subs, they're not always better or worse the quality will fluctuate, so don't always watch the sub because alot of work goes into dubs and you could enjoy it much more if you're allowed to glance away from the screen while watching it instead of having your eyes glued to the bottom of the screen.

[@dwainsimmons3447]

And then you get to hack dubs like Pokémon, Yugioh, Digimon, Sailor Moon, Rave Master, and Initial D, where they took a lot of their creative liberties to go against the creators’ original intentions.

[@TwistedBOLT]

The quality and effort that goes in to these videos is breathtaking. Thank you so much for creating them.

[@Hypeathon]

10:08 - Fun fact, one of the characters in the first episode of the Magical Lyrical Nanoha did the exact same thing when she was telling a dog to stop barking.

[@Pluveus]

I think I love the "No we don't hate Joey the Anime Man" disclaimer at the end most of all.

[@shannonshoffner68]

Great video! I'm someone who watches both dubs and subs. First, dubs have come a looooonnng way since the 90s and early 2000s. Some anime like Tatami Galaxy and Katanagatari and the Monogatari series would benefit from a dub due to the heavy and fast dialogue. But one thing I've noticed, there are certain Japanese philosophies, mind sets, etc that we can never understand because it's been ingrained into the culture for thousands of years (I say this as an American). So if it's a sub, it may not be any more "understandable" context wise than dubs. There's plenty of room for both sides and clearly there is a big audience for dubs else they wouldn't be simuldubbing. But, there is one anime that must never, ever be dubbed, is Gintama. The one attempt they made was terrible

[@shannonshoffner68]

@SoulReaper 85 the voice actors they chose just didn't capture the personalities at all. Gintoki's sounded too high pitched. The Japanese actors is much deeper. Kagura was way off base imho. She sounded like a bratty teen but the Japanese seiyuu sounds much younger I'm basing this on the series that was dubbed. I skipped the dubbed movie. Just my opinion though 😁

[@AdamSmith-gs2dv]

Well a main reason for the extremely censored 90s/2000s dubs is thanks to good old Uncle Sam censoring public broadcasting. Now that more stuff is moving online where the FCC doesn't have nearly as much power to censor as public broadcasting the dubs have gotten better since now companies don't need to fear being sued for "vulgar" speech.

[@Eli-lw7jo]

I didn’t even realize how long this video was until I got to the end. Great video honestly, your channel is underrated

[@luminous2585]

It's probably impossible to make anime subs and dubs that are perfect for everyone. You have hardcore fans on one side that want every single cultural reference to remain, and casual viewers on the other who don't want to read articles on japanese culture to make sense of a scene. I think it would be kinda elitist to go with the literal version and say anyone who really wants to really experience anime has to watch them in the rawest possible form (at least after passing the language barrier.) I might as well make a far out claim myself and say every true anime fan's primary goal should be to create an environment where as many people as possible can enjoy anime. On the other end of the spectrum we have Brock's doughnuts. Just... just don't. I think people won't die from a small dosage of Japanese culture. Nobody will be confused to some extreme degree by something simple they're not familiar with. The typical reaction is probably going to be "Guess that's something the Japanese just do." They can just live with that assumption or do some research if they're interested enough, and I think that's fine. Just think of Naruto. Absolute mainstream success, but to my knowledge they never tried to remove the weird butt stabbing thing (yeah, I don't remember the name because I never saw myself referencing it in a conversation.) This never lead to any real outrage, or I missed all the news reports titled "Japanese Cartoon shows anal penetration!" Honestly, some middle ground is probably the most reasonable option since you can't provide five different subs/dubs per anime per language. What would be really cool to see though is something like a director's commentary. Yeah, the notes are super distracting, but it would be cool to have these as an option that can be toggled on and off for very invested viewers who want to understand more of the intricacies.

[@noffermans1996]

As someone who's first language isn't English. I appreciate the english dubs a whole lot. It made me discover more anime. I watched the yugioh in dutch. Which didn't (to my knowledge) got dubbed in dutch. After season 3. To find more english was great. To then learn there was more in Japanese was also so great. Without them...I wouldn't be here. Many European countries use the english dub for their dubs....if they didn't excited...I wonder how far spread anime as a whole would have come

[@riverdude90]

These videos y'all do are incredible!!! It's such a great way to learn more about anime and y'all make it fun. Keep up the great work!!!

[@betterlatethannever4529]

I now understand why fans hate dubs......I still like some though...

[@NanoscopicSize]

What people dont know is that japanese people change a lot of the dialog from our western shows a lot of the time that makes no sense.

[@Kakachi07]

There's nothing wrong with liking a good dub, there are a few of them out there some That I love but because of recent events in the Western Anime community It breaks me to even consider watching them again despite loving them, I simply don't wish to hear certain VA's anymore even if they were talented and good at making dubs. Still if you truly want to enough the original anime watch as many subs as you can, the more subs you watch the more you get use to it and honestly reading subtitles becomes second nature, you barely miss what's going on and you even pick up on common words in japanese and instantly know what they're saying even if you don't have a direct translation. There is an entirely different form of conveying the same meanings in dialog without dialog and that is in tone and body language, honestly one of the best Animated Movies of all time is Spirit the Stallion of Cimmeron simply for the amazing story it tells with so little dialog, in a way it proves that as long as the translation is close to home we can pick up on the joke being told. Honestly I don't think it's so much we hate dubs as much as there are just so few dubs and they do change the Original messages sometimes. Another example is with Code Geass, for me I think the Dub and the subs are both good in quality but I do cringe at some of the voices chosen for certain characters, as I watched most of the series in japanese first Lelouch's voice actor suited Lelouch's character type more to a tee sounding likes a cocky regal prince, where as the English dub Lelouch sounds like a street punk to me. But enjoy what you want to enjoy, the more you dive into to anime the more it makes sense, I use to prefer dubs until my Highschool Anime club forced subs on me and then learned Naruto was like 40 episodes ahead of the American ones and the only way to catch up to that was to watch subs on KZbin back in the day.

[@betterlatethannever4529]

@@Kakachi07 not many reference Spirit. Definitely an underrated film. But you're right, it's hard to justify whether or not a dub is bad, and that many give the series a different spin on how we view a character. I'd personally say, dub Lelouch is my favorite. Yes, the original does sound more royal, but the dub reminds the audience he's still a highschool(er?).

[@abrahamambriz892]

I'm an anime fan, but I love dubs, mostly today's dubs, though I wish Toonami shipped over to Syfy (which should still exist on television) or became an animation T.V. channel aimed at teenagers rather than a simple programming block, instead of Adult Swim, because the youngest viewers have less access to anime they should watch at least once or twice, you know?

[@abrahamambriz892]

Still, I don't get WHY THE HELL Toonami is on Adult Swim, I mean, don't you think that a 2012 April Fools prank became a serious mistake for the block's actual audience (teenage boys) up to date?

[@andremilanimartin3338]

I loved those notes explaining stuff. It was so good to learn stuff and fun to actually understand the idea beh8nd it.

[@miaruuu8375]

Ghost Stories dub: *Allow me to introduce myself*

[@Coolio_Ash]

What a fucking great video holy shit This is so creatively edited, so amazingly informative and i love it

[@BRZbazzanx]

Dragon ball Super Broly movie, No funimation....,

[@jiayojames]

Great video way more interesting than I thought it'd be.

[@theMoporter]

I'll say the same thing here that I said about the Fire Force censorship: don't licence a series if you don't like the content. If you think content is objectionable, don't ask for censorship - criticise the authors.

[@iconiclit8945]

Not nessecarily that, the network would air uncensored anime but advertisers will pull out of funding the network, and that's where the money the network gets comes from, and that money is used to buy shows. Given that the cut content in Fire Force can seem rather too close to the hot topics being discussed in today's political climate, and those topics tend to get knee jerk reactions. If an advertisers heard that people are being unwillingly groped in Fire Force, they'll likely not want to sponsor the network, as they don't regularly check the network but relies on what the feedback that makes it's way around if it's loud enough. Sometimes, censorship can be applied in a better safe than sorry way, and unneeded. Sometimes, different people handle the censorship guidelines, not really the same people always (Adult Swim's S&P has changed over the years, they even mentioned sending off a older member in a bump)

[@Silanda]

I generally agree, though sometimes publishers can get caught out when they license unfinished properties. AFAIK that happened with the Shadow Star/Narutaru manga, where the English (and possibly other language) publishers licensed it based on the first few chapters thinking they were getting a light hearted and relatively kid friendly series. The problem was that it turned very dark and violent at points later, which left the publisher in a difficult position. It was first censored then cancelled.

[@Sarucapture4fight]

I treat the languages as different experiences themselves that makes me not care about the dub/sub argument. No point to compare what’s two different pieces of art when the teams behind them are VERY different. Try both and see what you can get from both experiences. If you prefer one experience over the other, that’s fine. That’s all it has to be. That’s just me tho 😑 Love that slick editing! ✨

[@TheOneTycoo]

I really wish more people thought about dub vs sub like this. I also think about it this way and don’t care whether something is dub or sub. While I do watch dubs mostly, I do like to watch the Japanese versions of anime I watch dubbed from time to time and treat it as a different experience. Nothing is wrong with dubbing and people need to chill out about the sub vs dub thing.

[@flameshana9]

It's good to hear some people aren't all upset over every little thing. The whole arguing is a waste of time. Why not just go watch more anime and worry less about what someone else likes?

[@TitularTypeWriter]

One of the issues with having an open conversation is the extreme disconnect fans have from the corporations/people behind the transition and dubbing processes and well, the lack of communication between them making and open discussion kinda hard. I believe if these companies were willing to listen fo representives of those who took issue with the stuff being altered to determine what would fly and what would not people would be less hostile towards elements changing because than they had a say/voice to prevent agenda-like additions or alterations that might be to much of a change to be viable for a western audience but also compromise on what the people in charge want to add in to make it more pliable for the western markets. But so long as the only ones who have a say are the corporate overlords and the people assuming they will get it right as it currently stands things will only get worse with some translators saying they openly hate fans which could affect how they adapt anime in the future.

[@yuzhouxingzhe]

I worked for years in China as a translator / localizer, and I've just recently moved to Japan to do the same thing with a newly acquired language. Theories of translation and localization occupy a great deal of my mental CPU. This is a great video to kickstart the discussion on Theories of Translation. It cannot be collapsed into a single theory, just as there cannot be a single genre of an entertainment medium. They will vary on levels of appropriateness, the skill of the translator, and the personal preference of the consumer. But what I think is increasingly necessary is a public exploration on theories of translation, and as there is more awareness of it, consumers can be better equipped to make conscious choices. Right now, translators are largely acting on guess work, but things don't have to be that way. Still working on this, though. Ganbarimashou!

[@flameshana9]

I dunno, the reason dubs were low quality two or three decades ago is the same reason today. The people who watch dubs don't care. There's never been a reason for dubbers to try harder when their paying audience isn't interested. It's really not a difficult issue to grasp. Money is king. If people stopped buying stuff because they had refined tastes dubbers would happily change because they'd get paid more. But if you give them pennies and watch the sales hover in the mere thousands instead of millions there's no motivation. If no one appreciates your art you're going to stagnate. And you can't force that appreciation. Trying to force it to become mainstream is exactly _why_ we went a step backwards. Now we need to appeal to the tasteless masses even more than before. Video games have the same issue. Everything that makes money has this same issue. This is nothing new. You can't force people to appreciate any art.

[@yuzhouxingzhe]

@@flameshana9 It's very true that you cannot force appreciation of art, especially for consumers who are okay with a certain standard of quality. But I think it is possible to raise the floor a bit. Take the case of video games, which is my field. Translations of games in the 90's were universally mediocre at best. Fast forward to today, and you've got many localization companies, each offering different methods of localization & translation services, which allows their consumers (the producers of media) to have choices that weren't available a generation ago. And the users of the games are the direct beneficiaries. Here, we can see clear theories of translation in action. Take Phoenix Wright, whose approach was to basically rewrite the game, giving characters new names, giving the game a new setting, changing & adding jokes, etc. Contrast that with Yakuza 0 whose translators were in on the ground floor, helping to create in English a similar experience to how native Japanese players would feel. It is this very variance in translation methods that inspired me to learn a whole new language and move to a new country. In China, media creation and translation is not an art form yet, by and large, especially in the games industry. I didn't feel like it was really possible to create things I was proud of. But I'm optimistic for the future of localization in Japan, and I hope that excitement reaches its target recipients!