Why Growth Sucks - The Isle / Beasts of Bermuda

This is totally gunna go over well.
Discord - / discord
I used some footage from TheGamingBeaver because all of the recording I've been doing has basically left no room on my PC for more footage, especially on the Isle side of things. Also used that one clip from old BoB cause I cant' exactly go back in time can I? XD
Here's all the videos I used from him in short clips -
• The Lives and Deaths o...
• ATTACKED BY ALL OF THE...
• Hunting For Mosasaurs ...
Got another video planned after this one but it'll be a while. Got real life things going on.

[@threehornedgaming]

The use of Captain Gutt's sea shanty alone has made me agree with the entire video

[@primalrage3219]

Allow me to extend the hand of friendship

[@logic6615]

@@primalrage3219 ...that's your foot

[@Vanessawhyms5751]

Three horned gaming

[@mlgodzilla4206]

Gamer Logic ohoho nothing gets by you does it?

[@IndominusRex-wc1ey]

Those 3 did it!! They did the thing!!

[@rapjaxk4561]

THE ISLE DEVS don’t “Pesky” this guy.... please..

[@Abyzzol]

Why would they, he didn’t say anything towards the dev team

[@CandyBoot]

Billy the fat communist Dog Which is total bs because Pesky put a disclaimer in his video to his subscribers to not give shit to the developers, & yet they felt that Pesky was somehow responsible for the actions of other people he can’t control. Based on your explanation, if we were to give shit to the devs they would go after Scanova as well & call him a “shitbird”.

[@jerryhsi005]

@@anbo1764 he claimed himself is the nicest guy alive

[@ItsSundaay]

Ikr

[@RoulicisThe]

I personally think that the Isle's main problem with it's nesting and growth system, is that it's a leftover from another time, and is thus completely inadapted for the game as it is. You're basically spending HOURS in what could be called an "Interactive loading screen", and waiting for your character to load it's stats so you can finally start playing. For a trike or a giga(if you're brave enough to try and grow one of these victims) you have to wait 6 litteral hours to START PLAYING your dinosaur. That's no fun, but why is it like this? Simple : Nesting and growth, in The Isle, was implemented for the "Progression" game mode around 3 years ago. Since most of the playerbase doesn't remember this time (due to the old playerbase withdrawing from the game), I'll resume it quickly : Progression mode was a game mode which, as it's name suggest, made you "progress" through the playable's tier list. When you start on a server, you spawn as one of the bottom-tier animals (Velociraptor for carnivores, Orodromeus and Psittacosaurus for herbivores), and you start playing as an ADULT. Over time, or by eating speciel types of plants you accumulate "progression points" which allows you, when you have enough, to upgrade your dino into an adult version of the Tier above. Thus, you progress through the bottom tiers to the upper ones, Tier by Tier and If you die, you start all over at the bottom again. So, if you wanted to play a giga for example, you had to start as a velo, then upgrade into a herra, then into an allo and finally into a giga, which means that you had reliable ways to enjoy the game during your entire playthrough, as you spawn as an adult each time you jump a Tier. So, what did growth had to do with this back then? Simple, you could only start up as a juvenile version of said dino IF someone playing said dino invited you in his nest. This mecanic allowed one to jump several steps of the progression and spawn immediately as a higher Tier dino, at the expense of starting in a weak and vulnerable state, and thus really dependent of your parents. But, growing like this was shorter than reaching said dino through the progression tree, so many people usually tried it. It was an "option", not an obligation, to go this route, which was kinda "high-risk ; high-payoff" approach, but if it didn't work, you could still go the progression way and climb at the Tier you wanted normally. Then they removed Progression, implemented Survival yet they didn't change the growth mecanic. Growth times were adjusted over time of course, but what we have now is a feature built for a gameplay which doesn't even exist anymore, and thus has no more value. And THAT is the main problem with forcing people to start of as juveniles and growing for HOURS to just start playing their dino, not only is that incredibly boring and frustrating, but it's also lost all the purpose it had when it was implemented. Basically, this mecanic is now completely useless as it is

[@nouranelewa1747]

I once spawned my nest then I didnt found it it was removed idk how this glitch happened to me ALOT and I hate it -.- my friend says this also happed to him TwT this thing also sucks. Plus when you are in front of growing up you die. After spending 5hrs then you DIE you have to start ALL OVER again which literally sucks not gonna lie I wish the update is removed :/ tell me if anyone agree..?

[@Bone20647]

I agree with you, its outdated. the growth times for apexes should be something more like 4 hours, then maybe bring sucho down to 3 since he isnt an apex. The juvie and sub stages still have their own gameplay to it, such as juvie needs to hide more and can try and hunt other juvies, things like that. sub can hunt other mid tiers (some of them, anyways) and then of course adult. so i still think growth should be a thing just a new system

[@carlafalasca4514]

perfectly explained

[@akospozsgai1706]

Progression mod was better for me to

[@mighty679]

I remember when the nesting was actually special in getting a non survival dino and not much people recieved any before buying dinos. My first nest was the spino and that was very rare back then before the purchasing happened in servers. So it actually meant something 🤔 😅 It be nice if the Isle did bring along talent trees though. Could be a copy from the BOB but they sorta going that route later on which I'm excited about then implanting those traits into nesting.

[@dungeonsfordragons5056]

I think a lot of people are interpreting this video as "remove growth" when in reality the point is why growth is boring. A lot of comments are trying to imply that people just want to be lazy and automatically be adults and... no. Growth being more complex and requiring actual gameplay would make being an adult much more rewarding, and prevent apex overpopulation on the server as difficult survival means longer grow times are more risky and take actual work. I really don't know why "suffer for your apex" means sit bored for hours and hours in the community when it should mean that you actually put forth a respectable amount of effort to getting to that stage. Growth in Bermuda is more fun for me at least because there's environmental hazards with the storms/floods and also things you can do to increase your bias, but overall it still encourages sitting in a cave with the comfort system, just like TI encourages sitting still in a bush. TL;DR- Growth is a good IDEA and should be an actual challenge and actual gameplay, not afk simulator.

[@TheRandomWolf]

Yeah he’s giving suggestions on how to improve growth

[@universesbiggestdouchebag8350]

Actual idea: BUGS! WHERE IS MY SMALL ANIMALS AT SO I CAN SLAUGHTER THEM LIKE HOW THEY SLAUGHTERED MY GOLDEN EXPERIENCE!

[@nmci8959]

The immeasurable weakness of the juvis is what really irks me, yeah they shouldn't be strong per say, but many herbivores can keep pace with their herd even in a gallop moments after their born. Some baby animals are very poisonous or have extreme camouflage skills, and others still have unique abilities, like how some baby birds will eject their vomit or feces onto a predator, hell some babies are even better at certain things than the adults, like how hoatzin birds are relatively cumbersome, while the chick's are amazing swimmers and climbers. Any amount of these things would not only make the babies viable, but also actually enjoyable to be as while you wait to be an adult.

[@FlishonyanKing]

I think, despite all the issues with Evirma, the one thing it DID get right is making the juvies actually have some level of viability (even if right now it's difficult to see because there's only two dinos to choose from). Juveniles can actually hide because the maps have actual cover now unlike the stupid conifer forests we had before, they're both fast enough to be evasive even if they're still slower than adults, and they have ways of covering their scent (certain terrain types do not leave footprints and mud will conceal your footprints for a short time; could be longer). This allows the juvies to actually *do* something even if they don't really have anything to do at the moment. Once other dinosaurs get added, particularly smaller ones, juvie Utahs will be able to hunt down prey and actually be competent at it, and juvie tenonts will have things to defend against rather than just hide from.

[@RoulicisThe]

And unfortunately... Evrima is a complete fucking mess. They just did a "The Isle reforged" with a bit of Blizzard sauce here, with functionnalities and graphic performances that have been around for years suddenly downgraded to alpha state, and that's just the tip of the iceberg >

[@barbary13]

@Milk I never find it hard to get food in evrima as either a Utah or Tenonto.

[@xenomorphoverlord]

Honestly, wallowing in mud isn't worth the risk

[@skelet8337]

@Drake Petty get good man you can kill tenato with Utah

[@MyDrago45]

@@xenomorphoverlord lol the deinosuchus just made the game even better

[@daubeny8071]

Time to sit back and watch the chaos unfold down here

[@dancer9op680]

Daubeny it doesn’t have to be like this

[@yeahokbuddy2510]

Wow you must be a lonely person to find enjoyment in chaos lol. The comments are chill here

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

Pretty much

[@itisamystery.5090]

@gapple * ... For the same reason people argue about.. well, anything?

[@darksoals]

This is a really interesting video with a fresh perspective on growth, thank you for making it! I feel like I should mention, that as beasts of Bermuda moves forwards, growth will become less important, as more of a passive effect rather than an active goal. This is a problem we have been aware of for a while, along with the players intense fear of death in what is supposed to be a pvp game. We intend to address both of these issues in the future.

[@isazira1992]

Lol, as someone that LOVES pvp, players aren’t “afraid“ to die in pvp games. Players are “afraid“ of losing time and progress invested into a game. BoB and TI both have relatively niche styles of pvp gameplay that, frankly, just aren’t very fun or rewarding long-term. But sure, keep throwing the blame on the players for poorly designed gameplay.

[@deadazzz]

@@isazira1992 lmfao as someone who loves PVP games your answer is incorrect. Many people have whined after being fairly killed in pvp games. If you've never seen someone flip their shit after you eat them then you aren't doing it right.

[@peternielsen3570]

YOU DO AMAZING VIDEO

[@beanoptodon]

People that don't like death to their big dino can play chill servers. People that hate pvp can still enjoy the game while the admins can host events and competitions instead of everyone mindlessly killing each other all the time. It makes things less stressful, and it makes the game feel more lighthearted. Now I wish admins actually had more power with the server that they OWN but sadly the devs like to force people to only play pvp. I love going on BoB and just relaxing.

[@MrFriendlyCsgoContent]

@@deadazzz "fairly"

[@Vautus]

I fully agree with all of your points here, having to wait several hours just to have a somewhat even playing field with other players is what prevents me from going back and playing either of these games (amongst other reasons). Great vid.

[@adnanfarrosi7252]

Hello path of titans player

[@bnewtz7492]

Adnan Farrosi Path of Titans is going to have nesting and growth, so try again.

[@PeskyPennyX]

There is sandbox mode for you people whom can't muster up any challenge and want everything handed to them

[@logic6615]

@@PeskyPennyX there is no challenge. The only way to survive is to hide and pray no one will find you

[@jellyray1686]

@@logic6615 exactly it absolutely stupidly boring to just wait, if I wanted to do that I would just invest my time into a job and play star citizen xd

[@ditzydoodle8381]

At first I liked BoB's endless growth, until I realized it meant no matter how much time I spent growing my dinosaur there'd always be some 'no lifer' with a much bigger dinosaur that slaughters me and I have no chance of escape or fighting back. At least with The Isle every adult rex is the same size with the same stats so I know what I'm getting into with it. But even then I still think the arbitrary wait times for growth are insane. No game should take 8 hours of waiting in real life to get to the good part, only to die and start over. It's not fun. I don't want growth gone completely (cause just having full grown dinosaurs with no risk creates like a death match server with no purpose) but I would like it where it feels my time and effort got me somewhere, rather than just losing it all and gaining nothing, even if the death wasn't my fault.

[@pillowkitty6]

Don't own BoB but going off all the info I've read the endless growth issue would be easily solved by handling dinosaurs above 1.2 as elders. Yes your getting larger but now arthritis is kicking in! Start slowing that movement speed and lowering their health. Or a sickness mechanic of which larger/older dinos are more susceptible. Don't treat them like immortals. Push the focus on fostering the next generation. Expand on inheritance system and reward parenting in some way to the player! These survivals are so short sighted in their designs it hurts.

[@brolysupersaiyan1634]

This problem can be solved if you play with friends. I play alone and I can guaranteed that it's not pleasant.

[@V1ncenz010]

@@pillowkitty6that would be trash

[@fang609]

I have seen first hand how some people in BoB would be big adult predators and will go after anything they see, I clearly remember spawning as a mega and 2 big rexs where very close and they chased me relentlessy,at some point I was trying to escape them by runing between some rocks near water but a mossa got me, on another server there used to be 2 very large rexs tho they mostly left me alone since I was pretty much camping on the snow mountain as a scavenger mega,but I do remember a few times I came down from the snow they would be hunting other large rexs,acros and I think they killed an apato once,can't remember how one of them died but it did at some point.But yea giving the babys in these games something the adults can't do that lest them defend themselves or go to a spot that is safe from adults.

[@justthereed5593]

I hate Growth. It feels like I’m waiting around for the best part, but it’s still fun to mess around as a baba. They need to make it take less long.

[@barbary13]

oh yeah that'll definitely fix the apex problem...

[@fabioronquillo1360]

Or give the baby's abilties that the adults don,t have like scanova said

[@lophus02]

Someone had to say it

[@jerryhsi005]

8:30 the problem was a easy fix. Server wipe from time to time.

[@bunnarti6535]

anyone remember when the isle had a point system for getting high-level dinos?

[@murray1]

Yep. The progression system been playing the isle since 2015 and I miss progression

[@hairbarnes530]

@@murray1 hopefully they have a game mode like it once the game is finished.

[@xanshen9011]

Why did they even get rid of progression? It was such a fun system and you can see diverse amounts of dinosaurs instead of 90% of the players being juvie rexes hiding in bushes.

[@braxtonsnose9313]

When I fully grew my Rex I stopped playing because you can't die if you don't play lmao

[@kenjiro2676]

5:04, I agree, in the wild most baby Dino’s can start running as fast as their parents(at a certain stage and depending on what species). Sauropod hatchlings can move faster than their adult counter parts because they are smaller and lighter(same deal with rex and other species, and prey animals need to learn how to run fast so they aren’t easily predated but are still considered easier prey. Speeding up progress for hatchlings and juveniles would definitely help your issue, but then once you hit adulthood growth slows.

[@RoulicisThe]

Yeah, but it doesn't make sense either : Dinosaurs aren't reptiles, they don't grow indefinetely. And giving such a mecanic to only a portion of the roster would make things even worse than they are in BoB right now

[@elliottcoleman8225]

While Saurian is a little bit different than some dino games in concept and it's development is pretty slow, I really like how they handle growth. Every section of development has it's own place in the environment, creating slightly different gameplay as you grow bigger and change your abilities. I feel like the reason we all even play The Isle at some point is just because it's the only decent multiplayer dino game there is right now. It's certainly the only reason I play it.

[@ebonhawkarmory9681]

Totally agree. Isle Babies should have tiny hit boxes and offer very little reward to larger creatures. They should have exceptionally higher ai spawn rates, the ability to burrow, or have no footprints visible to adults. Sub adults they got right, making them faster than thier fullgrown counterparts. I'd also like to see a spawn system that automatically pairs you with an adult for protection with friendly fire disabled. You could then leave the group, but only after 3 minutes. This guarantees some saftey on spawn.

[@alejandrovallejo4330]

I enjoy growth on a game, but I completely agree with you AND I also think growth in the isle (IDK about BOB) is also poorly implemented because of how long it takes to grow to full adult. Sure may e implementing the things you mention that wouldn’t be as much of a problem, but for me, someone that wants to do other things and play other games throughout the day, it’s very unappealing to me that growth takes over 8 hours straight to go to full adult rex. Only to be killed in the 7th hour and start the process ALL OVER AGAIN! It’s just very frustrating and exhausting and is one of my main deterrents to play the isle more.

[@ladybug6525]

You should try some of the smaller critters - get a big pack of utahs or dilos and just go to town on anything that moves. you could prolly grow a lil' guy four times over in the time it takes to grow a rex.

[@The_PokeSaurus]

8:00 So the mechanic turns the player into an overpowered invasive species?

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

you might as well be, since everything before you other than a decently sized and skilled megaherd or a pack of peeved Acros can't kill you.

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

@Drake Petty That's what it feels like when the giant dude is a rex, a massive angry pickle with barely any stamina and massive hunger drain

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

@Drake Petty I now imagine a mosa lunging out and dragging mr pickle to his death, and then mosa dies as well

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

haha

[@lukeskywalkerjediknight2.013]

I never expected to see you here!

[@luchinosalvieri6832]

Growth would work seamlessly if the devs actually made Dinosaurs have different niches at different stages of it. Dondi expecting a Juvenile Tyrannosaurus to hunt a Triceratops, instead of giving it the proper speed and agility to chase down, let's say... I dunno, a Gallimimus is Idiotic. We have more than plenty of evidence of Osteogenic (I think I spelt that right) growth in Dinosaurs, and how especially Tyrannosaurus went from a skinny, gangly pursuit predator, to the nine ton bone Crusher. With the way growth works right now, with an ecosystem that favours carnivores that make groups of 7-8, generalistic, braindead Allos that come in swarms and afk grow, Growth cannot function properly.

[@Johnny-se6je]

The trackways that show that juvenile sauropods could supposedly run on their hind legs were preserved in very bad sediment which could be the reason why the forefeet didn't preserve.

[@gendygoblin8391]

Saurian actually gets the growth stage idea quite well since the Dakotaraptor juvenile can climb and glide extremely well!

[@brece5452]

I agree with the points you have made. Growing in the Isle is a chore, it’s boring, stressful, and at times feels unfair. I always thought that it was weird how juveniles were just much weaker versions of the adults that had nothing going for them. The fact that you also have to worry about anything slightly larger than you also sucks. Instead of exploring the map or doing anything, you end up staying in one spot for about 2-3 hours before leaving because you are at a size were you can either fight back or run. However, if you die, it’s back to square one. I like playing the Isle but gosh growing is just a pain. Especially if you are in a group with older individuals. You end up wasting stam just trying to keep up and that issue still exists in Evirma. What makes it worse though is that the Isle is just a Dinosaur death match game where it’s mostly people just looking for a fight. I enjoy the Isle a lot and I truly hope it continues to grow, but they have to add something to juveniles to make them better at surviving.

[@bleh3080]

I had a lot of these ideas in the back of my head for a while, thanks for bringing this up xD

[@AnAmericanMusician]

Nothing like spending 5 hours trying to grow a carno just to have a rex ambush me in an instant and ruin all of my progress.

[@yolo9050]

I know this vid is 4 months old, but kudos to you for speaking my mind through a video and even pointing out that when these logical arguments are brought up, people "poopoo" them because "lul, you're not a dev therefor you can't know what you're talking about like the devs can" Because why would a gamer be any good at understanding how a game works vs a bunch of artists who make the game?

[@Lethal_Giggles]

Growth sucks because it typically offers nothing when you get larger, other than the fact you get larger, and essentially punishes you when you die by starting you out as a baby again, forcing you to spend hours growing again. A way to fix this might be that instead of forcing you to start over every time you die, perhaps instead, the game could simply reduce your growth meter/points every time you perish. Maybe make it so that if you are nested in, you grow 2x as fast. Anything to reduce the grind folks

[@steellegion7054]

Your wish has been granted. Sort of.

[@mechagodzilla4875]

As someone who played the Isle for alot I do agree and disagree with some points. Yes I completely agree with the fact that smaller dinosaurs need to be faster to avoid predators, since they are always going to be weaker then them. But when you get down to the bare bones, if you die as a baby it's quite your fault. And that's why I like it. It's a challenge to grow in a world that can kill you quickly, and it's rewarding to grow a big dinosaur and become higher in the pecking order since you started so small. So in that aspect I like growth, but then again it's very annoying how slow babies are compared to their competition

[@blady8204]

Growth mechanic in the isle is boring. You don't need skill to become an adult in this game, just brain. All u have to do as a carnivore is kill AI, eat it, hide, eat it, hide, find another one and do the same thing over and over... that's boring, there is no skill in that. In my opinion this game is unplayble for solo players and that's bad. This meant to be a survival game but tbh it's an afk game. Survival games should be hard but this game is set on easy mode, not to mention pathetic rule servers that makes this easy game even more easier... In my opinion becoming an adult dino should be challanging and rewarding for being a skilled player but at the moment every noob can be an adult...

[@F.H.W]

TheBeastFIZZ so you play afk then. You know if you actually want to make it more entertaining for yourself why don't you try fighting real players instead of just hunting AI. People like me have been playing The Isle longer than when AI was first added and we survived just fine

[@user-gr1io9is3v]

@@blady8204 sandbox mode is there for you, what do you expect ? It's survival mode, why would it be called survival if you just get a t-rex already grown, die and repeat, if you want to be op, wait for your apex to grow, if you want to kill, play sandbox.

[@blady8204]

@@F.H.W Dude I played on progression servers with no rules. This was true survival game where china players were making 30 trikes every day and killing everyone on sight. Why would I bother to fight players if I can just afk and grow? If I wanna fight I go on deathmatch cause growth is pointless

[@blady8204]

@@user-gr1io9is3v What the fuck are you talking about rule server player xDD "survival mode" good joke. This game aint survival, it's super easy. Survival was 3 years ago on progression no rule servers

[@skiwee2092]

4:51 Good reason to give utahraptor feathers

[@skiwee2092]

Drake Petty no clue. Their oviraptor has feathers, so hopefully we will see a feathered utahraptor someday.

[@vividsky1669]

@Drake Petty that and it well, doesn't exist, steny or Laten would have been fine but it's what-ebs

[@skiwee2092]

@Drake Petty Idk, it looks very strange

[@Anon2496]

Ah yes I love hiding in bushes being useless for like 4 hours, only to get randomly spotted by 4 dudes who decided to pick something with sharp teeth and having it all be for nothing. Growth amirite? Yeah fuck growth.

[@gigastudios2.066]

I loved that continental drift transition XD

[@thevioletboi]

Thanks for helping me with ideas for my game

[@SqualingtonConstantine]

Just bought The Isle during the Steam sale. Waiting for growth is definitely my least favorite thing in the game so far. Waiting for your dino to grow makes sense, and it does give you that sense of earning your big giga, but it's just REALLY boring getting there. The biggest thing that I'm looking forward to is the eventual implementation of humans and flying creatures. As a flying creature, if I'm bored, I can fly around, explore the huge map, and watch other dinos from a safe distance. As a human, hunting for dinos with guns and maybe basebuilding would be cool. But those things may be years from now though.

[@ladybug6525]

Yep. This is why I like BoB. You just click ptera and you have the whole world at your fingertips. Looking forward to quetz and ptera in TI.

[@skelet8337]

If you are bored go hunt even if you are sub if you are good enough you can kill bigger stuff than you if you are scared and want to afk is gonna be boring in any game

[@ladybug6525]

@@skelet8337 Some of us can't fight. Plus when you expose yourself and go looking for trouble, you might find food and have some fun, sure, but there's just as good a chance you'll meet someone bigger than you. In the way that growth is set up, adults are both stronger and faster than juvis and subs. There's nothing you can do if you're spotted by something big.

[@TheRandomWolf]

Pteranodon is probably gonna come out next month

[@SawyersHerpetology]

Remember 3 hour growth times for apexes? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

[@xdragnx7421]

Scanova: *GROWTH SUCKS* 0:29: TheGamingBeaver Footage Me: *oh yeah.. Its all coming together*

[@madison_russell04]

From where is the sea fluete music at the beginning?

[@cryppi1510]

I agree. I really hope that atleast parents can be given through spawning/nesting mechanics, or atleast AI. Also, it confuses me why the juveniles aren't faster than the adults in the isle. That's just common in nature today, my family raises birds and the babies are always so much more speedy and agile than the adults.

[@user-gr1io9is3v]

No, adult cheetahs are faster than their puppies as an exemple, like most animals, because muscle builds a lot in adulthood, birds are an exception because they barely need muscles to fly.

[@fabplays6559]

01110000 01100100 “puppies”?

[@cryppi1510]

@@user-gr1io9is3v Dinosaurs are not mammals though, so it doesn't make sense to compare them to felines or canines. They're reptilian and bird like, not mammalian, so it would make sense to compare their babies to baby birds or baby lizards.

[@user-gr1io9is3v]

@@cryppi1510 the mammal/lizard comparison doesnt have any value here, I compared the bone structure and use of it. You could say the same with baby crocs and adults

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

@@cryppi1510 Apparently the suggestion to make the juvies not useless has been suggested many times to the devs (like making young apas move decently quick to not be waddling meatballs) and it's very popular as of now.

[@natyistherobloxdude4800]

Bro, playing as a juvie rex Is the best thing ever-

[@wizzies9413]

Not to mention big carnivores eventually have to mixpack with birds, herbis etc (on BoB) to stay relevant on a smallish server with a small map

[@allapo3700]

Good thing they improved growth in bob roughly two years later.

[@CommunistSubRex]

I rly hope they rework all the juveniles and subs, sub rex and juvie rex should be super light it very fast and then begin to slow down and have massive growth spurts to adulthood, juvie Utah should be able to climb trees but be slower, giga juvies should be super powerful but slow, allos should be average as juveniles and the smaller juvies should have silent footsteps or something.

[@RoulicisThe]

They're completely unable to remove the bugs of a map that's been around for 2 years, and you want them to make an entire climbing mecanic ? You want them to get a heart attack or something ? xD

[@CommunistSubRex]

Erectar Denara I bet the POT devs could make on in a week

[@kireniayrma200]

i love how you put the movie refrences xD

[@gdwolf7]

Very fair observations

[@jangunther1455]

Nice editing, you seem to put work in that keep it going

[@coahmain]

do you think a leveling system would be better? i am trying to think of better ways to implement growth and talent changes that arent based on idling. one of the ideas i had was to make it based on combat points, earned from hunting and defending. that way, you would need to play the game to grow rather than idle.

[@helioslegigantosaure6939]

Really good point good job 👏

[@Torvophaganax]

In saurian growth is fun xD

[@maozilla9149]

Well that's true cuz it's supposed to be dinosaur ontogeny accurate

[@4bigguys746]

That game hasn’t been updated in a while sadly

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

yah

[@theodddinosaur3365]

I feel if they made baby dinosaurs faster than adults they would have a chance to get away from danger since they don't have high damage.

[@3RAN7ON]

5:00 a lot of people don't know this, but when you're a juvenile carnivore in the Isle you can 2 call a AI and they will run up to you, making it a lot easier to kill them. This does not work when you're an adult.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

Big problem with growth is people act like people, not animals.

[@Gmh-]

Remember when he played the isle...

[@Sadet1991]

how would you do a time based growth system?

[@evehellod9776]

8:50 With the talent tree. If someone's goal is to grow as large as possible and they need the food so they keep killing, they'll probably take as much damage they can get from the tree. That makes it even more difficult to kill them.

[@_Andy.Prince_]

I'll just say I agree And I actually like more BoB than The Isle, I have already lost my hope on The Isle xd

[@thewitchbasket]

Same here. In BoB, finding servers that suit one's needs is relatively easy. There are some crazy PVP servers and some that are more like glorified chatrooms. I personally enjoy the chatroom aspect of BoB, with the occasional thrill of potential death. Like I said, though, a good server makes all the difference.

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

same

[@bleh3080]

Same

[@Tavis15ify]

BoB imo has gotten to a worse state. Its either death by meg group that are known a-hats, mosa at one of the few lakes, mighty ole rex group. Or abusive herbs lol.

[@dobby0197]

Ehhhhh the isle will always be on my heart

[@purpledragon0828]

I do see your point. Balance does go out the window and yes there is some luck involved in growth but it also depends on how you play. Isle wise, Ik lots of juvis die because they call too much or don't stick to the trees. If you stay quiet and pay attention to your surroundings you usually grow just fine. On packed servers it's tricky but can be done. Plus if you want to play the isle but avoid people, going onto an empty server to just enjoy the scenery and grow can be nice. Once I reach adult I usually log off anyway since there's nothing else to do on an empty server. This way at least unpopular servers can get some players. Developer side wise, including growth means the players HAVE to be on a certain amount of time to get what they want. It's a clever way to keep people on longer.

[@cherrycherry9015]

When you scroll down its just paragraphs..

[@KJ-kn8pg]

The isle is supposed to be "realistic" in some terms but believe me... It's better than having basically only sandbox servers in the game... If there wasn't grow then everyone would be adult Rex in the game lmao. Grow makes the game better

[@SpookyEggs]

nothing about the isle is realistic

[@manessuarezserantes9269]

Literally true

[@RoulicisThe]

Still more than 50% of every server's playerbase is made up of rex, doesn't change a single thing. In fact : the very fact of players only using the rex in sandbox is a proof of how badly the game's species are balanced, as it means that NONE species are fun to play nor viable beside rex. If they were, they'd be picked in sandbox

[@ladybug6525]

Growth isn't the problem. It's just how poorly done it is.

[@MrAztec-ej4gg]

Everybody gangsta until a giant Velociraptor comes running ag you

[@Activator-df4gj]

Actually watching this while growing in a bush :D

[@firegator6853]

growth can be very fun if devs want to do it here is a good idea: quests that make your dinosaurs happy....for example a triceratops want to rub it's horns on trees feathered dinosaurs preen their feathers or t rex want to take a bath in mud and that would give you about +0.1 growth depending on how rare it is to randomly get it and how hard it is to do a quest for example if a hadrosaur quest is to meet another of your species and friendly call them that would give +0.5 growth but it's also rare to get a quest like that because of getting so good reward this is balance between being bored and losing control of big dinosaurs like t rex or shant and just like you mentioned some special things for babies being able to do for example t rex being faster when young and more (they are accurate too)

[@Woofie]

yet another reason why we deserve to have progression back.

[@whoahanant]

I had an idea about growth since I also agree that growth is just too ridiculous in the long term. I wondered if perhaps that the speed at which you grow could change depending on your care for your dino. For example if you're injured, sick, intimidated for long periods of time, starving, dehydrating or uncomfortable (like weather and such) your growth will slow because your dino is not doing well. While if you're healthy and uninjured the growth actually speeds up. So the game challenges you to actually care about the state of your dino and be mindful of the environment while rewarding you with faster growth. Maybe even by packing up you gain a little more of a growth boost, though this may be exploitable so it would have to be very small or just not be an option. It would make sense though that living with other creatures would help keep you growing strong and healthy. And I wouldn't make it so that people don't take risks but maybe just enough that you can get that boost while still making riskier plays. You have to be uncomfortable anyways since you need to hunt and this could counter some people from over hunting as well since they may slow their dinos growth by getting injured more often and be in proximity of another aggressive creature, thus slowing your growth timer. It's just a mechanic for growth that I thought could be a solution to the unbelievable growth timers. Maybe shaving off 30 minutes to an hour or 2 from your growth timer could be a good incentive to really care and immerse yourself in your dinos body and health conditions. Maybe eating your favorite food could also boost this. And if you don't care about your growth timer then you can just play normally most people won't starve themselves for the hell of it so it wouldn't effect you too hard anyways. As for the growth timer itself I'd say put it to whatever time you want. For example: 9 hours. So it takes a full 9 hours to grow if you're not keeping yourself healthy and if you keep yourself healthy and happy then maybe you can shave off 2-3 hours from that timer, reducing it to 6-8 hours spent on that dino rather than the full 9.

[@iliasaurus9950]

Even if I like sandbox over survival, I can understand the importance of growth in order to balance the game. The issues that bugger me the most are how limited your actions are (this applies to all games in which you grow a creature from zero to hero; all you do is eat, drink and very rarely run away from or kill someone. Although most of the time is spent waiting) and how in The Isle each and every single creature spawns identically: from the fast and nimble Gallimimus that is extremely adaptive to the slow and sluggish Suchomimus who depends on water.

[@Unstoppableink]

*sandbox enters the chat*

[@serpentarius1194]

I saw this video in my recommended a few times and I was... skeptic. But you tackled this pretty well, and I agree, for the most part. I can't really speak on BoB, as I haven't played it. Who knows how PoT will handle growth (I'm hopefully though because so far they're handling the entire game brilliantly). But TI is something I know well. It never made sense to me to have dinos such as dryo, maia and galli, who's survival strategy is speed (for the most part, dryos do have burrows too) to be so limited as juvenilles. I love playing maia and galli but I've always despised growing them due to how slow you are. Dryo only gets a break because it takes like 15 minutes to get to adult. It just doesn't make sense! I can't think of any irl animal who's survival strategy is "run" that is incredibly slow as a baby. And I think things like dibbles and mid-tier carnivores could do with boosting too. If they're not strong, they at least need to be fast, or agile in some way. I've always had an issue with how TI balances these aspects (poor para). The only exception to me is apexes. IMO it should be a challenge to grow them. It shouldn't be un-fun, but it should be more difficult than any other dinosaur. Because if you do make it to adulthood, you have one of the strongest dinos in the game. But the issue is apexes tend to attract newbies who are like "wow rex strong im gonna play rex and eat everyone!!" and of course then whinge then they get eaten 20 minutes in. Apexes should require much more smarts to grow than other dinos. All in all I liked this video though. I'm getting pretty invested in PoT so I'm interested to see how they'll tackle growth. Hopefully they do it better than our two current leaders in dinosaur survival.

[@geehammer1511]

PoT is going down the complete quests to grow route. PoT is also including level system and abilities to unlock.

[@xemiii]

how growth should work; as you grow up, you have dynamic stats. lemme explain. t rex in the isle kinda does this; juvi rex is fast, sub rex is a pursuit predator, then adult is slow and tanky. taking up different niches would be an interesting concept. it' like progrression- OH WAIT! Progression HAD you start as small, nimble creature, then you become a powerful giant that doesn't have to eat constantly or practically waterboard itself to live.

[@zachary5759]

Okay as long as you don't say we should do progression again we dont got a problem

[@jezzabb3707]

I like it and they will change it so you will get a bonus when you kill something special and run around on The Isle

[@donzaibanzai7746]

Im curious to know your opinion on the talked about mechanics coming in The Isle with growth. Things like specific diets and the fact that moving around and meeting 'goals' can make you grow faster verse the AFK growing we have now. I also agree with some other comments here regarding the new map build and graphic tweaks make hiding more viable now.

[@davidegaruti2582]

Ok out of the idea you proposed the competent juvy is the one i liked the most : Velociraptor , dryo and other small dino could be able to climb or really hide by standing still in a bush , and offering a little reward as an exchange for being rare since they would stay like that for a short period , Triceratops or anchy should be able to dig or have some form of armor , maybe a damage resistence maybe some cheratinus spike that can damage and inflict bleed with each bite , And besides being nible , they are very low to the ground and are very light they should be able to turn while running almost on the spot , and like ever chased a toddler ? They can go for hours give them stamina , That allows them to not offer such a free kill Large predators should by default be very fast when they are young , and be somewhat optimized to hunt other baby dinosaur/very small dino , by doing so you have to practice on inexperienced targets Sauropods should be able to run on two legs and have a ton of stamina when they do so , like i mean , let them have galli levels of stamina with peraps being fast enough to avoid most predators closing in just by walking , it should be hard to survive as a sauropods since fighting won't be an option , but flight will be a viable plan ...

[@ItsEnderDiego]

honestly, I agree that juvenile should have something that helps them survive on them own maybe small raptors would be able to climb up trees or give the 4 calls some kind of use with bigger dinosaurs of you're species know you're locations so they can defend you for the herbivores and I also agree with everything you said about BOB

[@destroyer114]

I totally agree with this. I think growth is only actually fun when you're roleplaying

[@theebirdboy]

I think an in interesting way to tackle growth would be to add objectives to accelerate growth. Things such as hunting certain dinos or migrating could be good ways to address this. These are things players already do, but at least accelerating the process for players who actually want to play would be a good idea.

[@Utshab.R]

I like it how it is and id rather keep it like that

[@splitdragon3004]

God that old Bob rex image in the thumbnail. It was me, Jynn, and Cyke before rex was public... ANYWAYS agreed to an extent

[@KDayTowers]

I agree with you on that the growth should be better developed or overhauled as need be. Though I personally adore growing.

[@getemmemes9434]

It makes a powerful desire to live and is almost like death irl, if you die you lose everything but they do need to figure that out you should only be able to grow if there is a nest for you to spawn in otherwise it's terrible

[@Noir6472]

I agree with the juveniles needing a boost, perhaps this could be discussed into the Isle since Evrima is new and everything. Would be a nice thing to add

[@Alec678]

thank god, i hate when youtubers say "that will be a topic for another video" and then NEVER DO A VIDEO ON IT. triggers me

[@MarkDrisch]

I grow gigas solo in The Isle on high pop servers. I find it quite fun. You always have to watch your back. Once you hit adult it's a completely different game. I actually can't wait for the elder system as I love constant progression.

[@dobby0197]

While I do agree that growth can be time consuming. Juvies are sometimes impossible to find, because with good camouflage they can sit in bushes and literally be walked by. I mean what else do you want them to do? Shoot lasers and fly? Most dinosaurs don’t even take that long to grow, rexes, gigas do take 6 hours, but Utah’s take 1 hour so if you don’t want to wait that long and still have fun, just play as a smaller hunter, like suchomimus

[@xxthepaintdragonxx3857]

While I don't feel super strongly about it, I do agree with you. I've been playing animal simulators and having moments where I'd be kind of hoping that my baby would at least be able to outrun an adult. It... always ended up not being true. ^^; Baby animal defenses should really be a thing!

[@xanshen9011]

Growth is basically hide in bush for 6 hours simulator. So much skill so fun.

[@Businessgoose123]

Well luckily it's gonna chance in evrima

[@logic6615]

You make a compelling argument, my friend. I shall like the video on behalf of your valid criticism.

[@gooey915]

I think babies should have a panic speed that heavy burns stamina

[@Aziruf]

Path of Titans death won’t be permanent! Yay

[@Abyzzol]

Thats why the game isn’t going to be fun for me

[@Vegan2387]

@@Abyzzol True good sir, true indeed.

[@Aziruf]

@@Abyzzol but it will most likely be an option!

[@hairbarnes530]

maybe its just me, but I like the journey of growing generally more than being full grown

[@stevenriess5813]

I think a sickness system would be good for a game like BOB. As you get older you can become ill more easily by eating rotten meat or as a herbivore getting an infection from a bite. You need to have high hunger stam and thirst to rid yourself of the sickness and the older you get the more demanding resource costs are to keep yourself healthy. Also it would force bigger carnivores to actually try and hunt bigger animals since they have more of a chance of killing them rather than just leaving them alone. Illness can also make the dinosaurs slower or weaker or just descrease they’re stats maximum. I don’t know but I thought I’d toss out an idea

[@yeusramirez7010]

I honestly thought you were gonna start singing right after u said "allow me to explain" 😅

[@SASMrSmall]

Isn't the recode for the game changing the way growth works? Atleast a bit?

[@madison_russell04]

That's probably my main reason I don't play Envirma, I usually only play Sandbox due to the structure of it, and that's why I want that as an option.

[@CEOOfSeagulls]

would love to see your opinions on Bob actually nerfing 1.2+ dinos (damage no longer continuing to scale past that)

[@ScanovatheCarnotaurus]

Since this video BoB growth has already been nerfed severely. Do a more acceptable level imo.

[@ornat9145]

In PoT you will be able to grow bigger than normal in a lonnnnng way but there will be a stop at around the equivalent of 1.2 in BoB if i remelber well

[@shark4sale]

I absolutely agree with you man!

[@gix.y]

Whats your opinion on Evrima's newly announced perk system which awards players for growth?

[@ScanovatheCarnotaurus]

I've stopped playing the Isle for good at this point so I can't really form an opinion.

[@gix.y]

@@ScanovatheCarnotaurus You should try it out again once Evrima has more to offer! It honestly is starting to feel like a completely different game :D

[@ScanovatheCarnotaurus]

@@gix.y I won't be for reasons that I've stated in a later video.

[@gix.y]

Scanova the Carnotaurus ah, fair enough

[@raulmt4]

Where did you read the baby sauropods running? I had never heard about it and seems so cool.

[@ScanovatheCarnotaurus]

It's based on a trackway.

[@steellegion7054]

Lol, Rip cleanliness and Olfactory.

[@evodolka]

this needs more attention

[@mistingwolf]

As an Isle player, I have always hated the growth system. Thanks for pointing out all the reasons why.