Were TNG’s First Two Seasons Really That Bad?

[@grandmufftwerkin9037]

Riker's beard is a good barometer for episode quality.

[@jasperswarp]

I always see the less Wesley Crusher screen time per episode works just as well.

[@GenetrySolar]

@@jasperswarp Wesley had great potential. They wrote him as an annoying child through the first 2 seasons but he really started taking shape in season 3. That is until Berman screwed him over and he decided to leave the show. It's a shame really because I could see him and picard really having a close relationship through the duration of the show if he had stayed on.

[@kengregory1541]

@Grand Muff Twerkin -The less you see it the better the episode! That guy is cringier than Richard Simmons, Hasselhoff, and Steven Seagull guest starring in a non ironic nu-metal xmas video with Limp Bizkit. worst of the Eighties! I could never see how a lady could stand him and his godawful eyebrows within a parsec without needing to tear her skin off! Gross!!! ROFL

[@skylx0812]

Egad, it just dawned on me where I've seen that muted dull rainbow swatch before thats on the current ovaried Dr. Who, its on Wesley's early years uniform.

[@canalesworks1247]

@@jasperswarp Certainly young Wesley. He gets better as he grows up and becomes less of a "child prodigy". I can totally do without the Pedo Traveler.

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

The slight "TOS" kind of references in the first season of TNG in particular is actually what i always liked a lot because it helped to really bridge between both shows. Also the departure of Tasha Yar is what always left a huge impression on me for multiple reasons. Not only does it show us how fragile life can be and main characters in a show are never truly safe. It also made Denise's character even more interesting due to her later re-appearances like in "Yesterdays Enterprise" for example. And i also loved that she left the show in good terms and the producers gave her at least a very bittersweet good bye. And this episodes ending STILL touches me to tears. As a kid i had the biggest crush on Tasha (hey.... i like Tomboy girls) and i was heartbroken when Armus killed her in sheer pleasure. Data's talk with Picard after Tasha's funeral are such a kick in the guts. But in the right way. :')

[@DRourk]

Fun fact that has largely been white washed in the last 20 years: Denise Crosby was indeed fired from TNG for having posed nude. In the modern era the story has been changed to say that Denise wanted to quit. Untrue. Though it probably is true that she left the show on good terms with Roddenberry et al. There was a great deal of pressure in society to axe her, as it was seen as a bad thing by a great many (including many fans of the show) that she did this. Denise isn't the only person to have lost a job or opportunities in the late 80s due to having posed nude. Another example is Julie McCullough on Growing Pains. In the modern era it's all blamed on Kirk Cameron, however again, there were widespread calls to have her axed. The decisions of both of these terminations came from the top and had a good amount of public support. In the case of Denise, Roddenberry did not make the decision.

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

@@DRourk I think a similar thing was the reason Kirstie Alley was replaced by Robin Curtis as Saavik.

[@DaystromDataConcepts]

Agree with your views on that absolute classic episode. The eulogy scene has the same effect on me too ...beautifully poignant

[@Lifesizemortal]

@@KRAFTWERK2K6 I always liked Robin Curtis more. Kirstie always looked like she was holding back laughter

[@danbitgood429]

@@KRAFTWERK2K6 I heard Kirstie was holding out for more money.

[@Willpower-74205]

Season 1 had another great episode in "Heart of Glory" when those renegade Klingons tried to tempt Worf into joining them. They wanted to be legends in their own time, but Worf knew that duty, honor, and loyalty is also important. In the end, Worf was forced to kill Korris after he threatened to destroy the ship, thereby giving him the honorable death he wanted. He knew that simply turning Korris over to the Klingon Empire would've dishonored him. This was long before Ronald D. Moore started writing for the show. Plus, that little visual transmitter Geordi used to show the crew how his VISOR worked was cool. 🖖😎👍

[@StreetPreacherr]

And Worf just didn't look NEARLY as intimidating when they still had him wearing the 'gold' fabric 'Klingon' sash from TOS before changing to the cool METAL version in later seasons! Also, switching the entire cast from those one piece 'jumpsuits' to the two piece uniforms was a HUGE improvement to everyone's appearance. No more 'pajamas in space! lol Although I was a fan of Troi's earlier costumes, which Marina Sirtis has referred to as the 'Space Cheer Leader' look. :)

[@Willpower-74205]

@@StreetPreacherr Plus, the two-piecers gave rise to "The Picard Maneuver" (the real one). 🖖😎👍

[@junglemoose2164]

"Heart of Glory" is an excellent episode and it is my favorite TNG episode.

[@Tkhaikovski]

@@junglemoose2164 And don't forget that awesome scene when Korris gives a kid back to Worf as Klingons do not take hostages as only cowards do.

[@jrherita]

Literally just watched that - and it was an excellent episode overall - great soundtrack too

[@FBHSswimmer2006]

I agree with you on most of what you said. But I actually liked Man Hunt. I always liked when Lwaxana Troi (Daughter of the Fifth House, Holder of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx, Heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed) was in an episode. Seeing how the bridge crew reacted to her always made me laugh, especially Captain Picard running to the Holodeck to avoid becoming her husband since she was going through a phase that "quadrupled her sex drive. Or more."

[@Ozymandias1]

She was Gene Roddenberry's wife. I wonder if he based it on his own marriage. 😄

[@whenthemusicsover6028]

"Mother, the Sacred Chalice of Rixx is an old clay pot with mold growing inside it."

[@FBHSswimmer2006]

@@whenthemusicsover6028 “Perhaps one day when you’re older and wiser, you’ll understand.”

[@jefff3886]

"More? You didn't tell me that." "I didn't want to frighten you."

[@clintonwilcox4690]

In "The Big Goodbye", I really love that they had a guest star get shot in the holodeck. If Picard, Data, or Crusher had been shot, we know they wouldn't have killed them off. But having a guest star get shot added tension because we genuinely didn't know if they'd resolve the story in time to save him. Also, "Where No One Has Gone Before" featured an early appearance by the late Stanley Kamel, who would portray Dr. Charles Kroger on Monk as Adrian Monk's therapist.

[@YooTubeSlave]

I was a kid when these seasons were new. My dad taped these 2 seasons on the VCR, and I watched them over and over again. I never hated Wesley or Dr. Pulaski. In season 1 I really enjoy 10110110 (I'm not sure those are the numbers, but you know what I mean.) The Big Goodbye, and I liked the one where they visit the planet Aldea. My dad didn't tape Conspiracy. In season 2 I enjoy the one where Dr. Pulaski gets old and the one where Riker goes aboard the Klingon ship. That episode is probably responsible for a lot of how the Klingon race shaped up for later seasons and series. I always skipped The Dauphin when I was a kid. The shape shifting was too scary. I also skipped Contagion quite often, but I never miss it now. I enjoy the Romulans and the look at the Iconians.

[@MKDumas1981]

“11001001“, but, yes, we know what you mean. Aldea is in "When the Bough Breaks". Radue goes on to meet the crew in the late 19th century. Riker on the Klingon ship was a matter of honor... I mean, "A Matter of Honor". I happened to kind of like "The Dauphin", due, in no small part, to Jamie Hubbard as Salia. "The Neutral Zone would have been a better episode with a different B plot, or none at all.

[@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388]

Next Gen ruined the Romulans (and, to a lesser degree, The Klingons).

[@RoboSantasRevenge]

I always loved “Symbiosis” at the end of season 1. A great science-fiction story that was well executed, with a solution that was classic Captain Picard.

[@grandmufftwerkin9037]

Which is worse? S1: Code of Honour, set on planet African stereotypes. Or S7: Sub Rosa, set on planet Scotland, where Doctor Crusher gets nailed by a space ghost and fights her zombie grandmother.

[@StellarAudyssey]

Easy, space ghost.

[@bumblebee9337]

Explains that Scottish family name.

[@Bow-to-the-absurd]

@@StellarAudyssey that space ghost was SHAKAR !

[@eddstarr2185]

I forgave season one after the airing of, "Where No One Has Gone Before". Here was the science fiction television show of my dreams. Encountering the unknown, in an area of space that defies our understanding. The outstanding moment in "Where No One Has Gone Before" was the realization that the events which propelled the Enterprise outside the boundary of known space was an accident. If a reversal of that accident failed, even at maximum warp, the Enterprise was centuries away from the closest Starbase. The look on Deanna Troi's face, said it all.

[@DarinRWagner]

I love "Up The Long Ladder." It's fine. The Mariposa did NOT try to clone Worf, though. You got that wrong.

[@DrendarMorevo]

Thank you for not shitting on "the Outrageous Okona," I know it's cheesy, but it's a great hammy episode and it's definitely worth a watch depending on your mood.

[@RealBadGaming52]

hes the closest to Han Solo we will ever get on Star Trek. i would have loved for him to cross paths with them again and helping them out with an alien treat he encountered

[@BrettCaton]

"Up the Long Ladder" could have been fun if it turned out the 'irish' were aliens larping as what they thought were irish, and getting into difficulty. O'Brien could have torn a few strips off them.

[@harbl99]

"Your civilisation can only be saved by interbreeding with the space Irish." "... ... Well, nothing lasts forever. I suppose we've had a good run."

[@RealBadGaming52]

up the long ladder is wierd as American shows dont usally show the irish as stupid or idiots, it felt out of place, i perefred the Irish parody on VOyagers Spirit filk and fair heaven as that was at least an irish 18th centuary village but at lest they werent potrayed asstupid just superstious

[@glrider100]

To be honest, TNG suffered from having too large of a cast. There were only so many minutes, so many lines, to be shared by too many people. This is one reason Denise Crosby wanted off, she wasn't being used, and Worf was (and would turn out to be) more interesting. The secondary characters were vaguely defined. In hindsight, it would have been better if some of them weren't on the pilot whatsoever. Introducing them 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 episodes into it. Let the main characters get established, then build. But Hollywood is full of egos, and directors and producers are no exception. I personally cringe whenever I hear buzz phrases like "The show will be character driven." or "We want to explore the interaction between all these characters." Ugh! (Stargate Universe anyone????) TNG was forged with these cringe enducing ideas. They finally stripped it down, and gave the characters something to do.

[@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388]

The biggest problem I see is the poor conception and development of some of the characters, especially Troi and Crusher. They should have had Troi be a social scientist with a peace view which contrasts with Riker (who was kind of a hard man character at first) and Worf. Instead, she was a lame space gypsy and eye candy. Also, Worf should have been more like a Klingon (and third in command not Data). A good side effect of this set up would have been Picard being less idealized and more open to Worf. (I liked Yar, and I was mad when they ended her.) People forget Next Gen is an "old show". It's not very different from Gunsmoke for example. It had poor character dynamics though. It didn't have anything like the trio in the OS.

[@Galvatronover]

@@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388 fortunately this edit. Last and it got better

[@ballybunion9]

Re the Irish episode, I can't help but laugh out loud every time at the scene where Riker goes to talk to the "Mary Kate Danaher" character by doing his John Wayne walk out of the shot. 😄

[@jefff3886]

Me and my brother used to mock that all the time. The head had to be tilted to one side every time one of us walked through a doorway.

[@ballybunion9]

@@jefff3886 😄👍🏻

[@davidmcmahon4633]

"I'm not a Merry Man!" is still among my most favorite lines in STNG.

[@DaystromDataConcepts]

Oh, forgot to mention I also enjoyed The Arsenal of Freedom and The Neutral Zone. For season two, Loud as a Whisper was brilliantly written. A Matter of Honour, Contagion and The Emissary were good.

[@aquamonkee]

One of my favourite Dataisms is in The Neutral Zone "a low milage pitwolfy?"

[@nadinefeiler9204]

i think today we can all agree that we would be very happy if star trek today would have the quality of the bad episodes of the first two seasons of TNG

[@2bituser569]

I loved the officer exchange program episode with Riker commanding a Klingon BoP.

[@tomkerruish2982]

A detail in "Up the Long Ladder" which a friend (with spina bifida) noted is that the Mariposans clearly decided NOT to clone Geordi, undoubtedly due to his congenital blindness. I personally got a "my body, my choice" vibe from Riker and Pulaski deciding to disintegrate their clones.

[@clintonwilcox4690]

That episode is so forgettable I forgot all about that plot. A much better episode to do with cloning is "The Masterpiece Society", and Geordi has a frank discussion with one of the clones about how he would not have been allowed to live but would have been aborted as an embryo due to his blindness (which I'm sure you know). The thing is, I do work in bioethics and follow academic discussions and there is a lot of discussion over cloning, whether or not clones count as persons, and whether or not we have a right to genetic privacy. I don't know how the conversation was back when this episode aired but being reminded of it is surprising. At any rate, considering episodes where Troi was impregnated against her will and still chose to keep and raise the child, an episode where Picard fought for Data's rights, and an episode where Geordi condemns a society for killing genetically deformed people, this is an unfortunate misstep and comes across as hypocritical that they would kill a clone just because their DNA was stolen against their will.

[@RealBadGaming52]

TNG was an ealry example of woke story telling

[@clintonwilcox4690]

@@RealBadGaming52 No, TNG wasn't woke. TNG had intelligent plots and never insulted its fanbase by calling them idiots like Kurtzman Trek. The people having the issues, like racism, were always an alien species so that those the show was trying to communicate to could see the effects on other people and extrapolate that to their situation. "Wokeness" is not interested in good storytelling but diversity for diversity's sake, and it's not interested in making a point, it's just obsessed with insulting Trump supporters. TNG was actually more libertarian; it wasn't "woke".

[@napiersh1]

"Where no one has gone before." is probably my favorite early episode.

[@johnhand46]

Season 1 and 2 were my favorite. There was a chaotic nature to the show that I really liked. The show seemed to become more predictable in later seasons. I also really liked Polaski. I wish they would have kept her. The relationship between her and Data had a lot of potential for comedy, and her character was just more interesting to me than Crusher.

[@docwhat8370]

I also preferred Pulaski and her and Data's relationship, coming from points of misunderstanding to conciliation and even friendship, is exactly what Star Trek is all about.

[@alexmuenster2102]

I was hoping to hear some sort of a theory as to why the first couple of seasons of each incarnation of Star Trek was "wanting." A little meta-analysis would have been appreciated! A little discussion of backstage problems and changing production budgets would have been illuminating! A mention of real-world events like the writers' strike would have been enlightening!

[@napiersh1]

I also can't help but like the Moriarty episodes.

[@danieldb631]

For some reason, I was expecting '99 red balloons' to play in an intro sequence.

[@supremegodemperorpalpatine4872]

The first two seasons of TNG had their ups and downs but at least their was good will between the fans and the creative staff. The same can't be said for Nu-Trek.

[@deadNightwatchman]

"Guest-villain": I like it! 👍 I want people to call me that at parties.

[@marcodavinci3150]

I agree there's something about the first 2 Seasons with very interesting and strange stories that make them the best seasons for me, maybe its because Roddenberry still had his hands in the pot but most of my favorites epsiodes are in Season 1 and 2.

[@SynthD]

Roddenberry was holding the show back. He deserves all the respect in the world for bringing Star Trek to us, but by this point he was being way too idealistic with it. He wouldn’t allow any kind of conflict between crew members, because he wanted to portray The Federation as a perfect society. And honestly, perfect is boring.

[@SuperSaiyaGinge]

If you read new comments from older videos, I have an idea. You should make a playlist based on your opinion on episodes to watch per season and the ones to skip/miss out if they are bad as one example or just filler. And do it in chronological order per season and make that one complete video for KZbin. It might be a lengthy project to do but I think it would be a good one. I guess you could think of it as like a long greatest hits so you can avoid the bad ones or snooze fest episodes.

[@TheFtm22]

I love "Measure of a Man" - it is indeed a classic I can sit through over and over again. Diana Muldaur was tasked with taking the place of Gates McFadden after she was basically fired unfairly. I felt bad for her as Diana had been in TOS and didn't deserve the wrath of fans angry about Gates. Of course, I love that Gates returned in season three. Also, I am a huge fan of Guinan as a character, and for that matter Whoopi as an actress (not so much on The View, which I do not watch). Can't wait for your discussion of Season three!

[@commoman]

I never understood the hate for her character either. I actually liked her better than Crusher.

[@genmaicha.lapsang]

"Conspiracy” is a pretty good episode. It’s probably the best example of “body snatchers.” because you get a sense of these creature’s personalities and that they are cultured sentient beings. They proclaim "a love of theatre" as a characteristic they share with humanity.

[@MKDumas1981]

Admiral Quinn (Ward Costello)'s stunt double killed me.

[@baahcusegamer4530]

They were the weakest but still had some great episodes

[@PeterKJRichterIMHO]

Most TV series, as a whole, usually have a rough start until the series finds it's footing etc etc

[@dgatsby6495]

Always wanted to watch this series but always got put off by people saying the first two seasons are terrible so just skip them and start at season three 😮 so much appreciated for the video

[@jamesgoss1860]

11001001 is my favorite episode of season 1. (As an aside, notice the title is every binary combination of a bit: 11 00 10 01.) Great music, great effects, fun suspenseful evacuation sequence.

[@jonathonearl482]

I liked every single season from TNG, DS9, Voyager and ENTERPRISE! All seasons are great. I don't understand why people are saying the first few seasons are bad.

[@ryankelly8783]

Season 1 was my favorite season. It was very TOS.

[@kibagami74]

I always did love the creepy/eerie episodes. You wouldn't think of Star Trek being a good venue for that but it is, even up to Enterprise, they would add a creepy episode now and then. That episode where Phlox has to shepherd the sleeping crew through an anomaly and he starts hallucinating for example.

[@misterlau5246]

What I despised was that way of killing Tasha. I didn't care about the dynamics of the interactions among characters because they were a new crew in a new luxury ship🤓😁. New concept, Patrick Stewart was so good, sil vous plais, ENGAGE! 🤣

[@MaximumWarp2099]

Like a lot of shows it can take a season or two to find it’s stride before taking off creatively in season three. With that TNG seasons 1 and 2 are pure genius compared to most new sci-fi shows today. One of the high points of those first two seasons for me will always be Patrick Stewart’s acting. Picard is an amazing character that Stewart absolutely owned and is the main reason to watch TNG in the first place. I probably should rewatch the series just to cleans my palate of the travesty that is the Picard show.

[@ForceMaximus84]

The only exception to this rule is TOS, where the first two seasons were the best whole the third was easily the worst. Having said that, the first two seasons of TNG and better than the first two seasons of DS9 and VOY and the entirety of STD or PIC.

[@oliverholland7236]

I only think they are bad in comparison to later episodes. I only started watching TNG a few years back and S1 and S2 were my first introduction to Star Trek. At the time I loved every episode and was confused when people told me they were trash.

[@Beeznitchio]

I don't always agree with this guy but I think he hit the nail on the head here. The first two seasons had some banger episodes, where you can still really feel Roddenberry's influence but the consistency was its downfall. Later seasons are more consistent but you also start to lose that Roddenberry influence which is now completely gone with new Trek making it not really Trek at all.

[@koloth5139]

But in many ways, it was the loss of Roddenberry that made the later seasons of TNG and especially DS9 possible. I feel some of the lack of consistently good episodes was because of Roddenberry. He held the writers back from really exploring the characters and some themes.

[@Bow-to-the-absurd]

Yeah I miss the constant attempts to put men in dresses.

[@Beeznitchio]

@@koloth5139 Many shows have trouble finding its footing in first few seasons. TNG is not unique in this aspect at all. Also, I'm not saying adhering strictly to Roddenberry doesn't have its drawbacks, it certainly did. Like Lucas, he needed others to reel him in. A nice balance is what works, which mid series TNG really found. I'm just saying that later TNG is where the worm started to turn. It went to more of a balance and then started tipping the other way until the scale has just completely fallen over now.

[@MKDumas1981]

@@Bow-to-the-absurd: I watched the whole series, and can find only skant examples of men in dresses.

[@Awakeandalive1]

Some of the worst elements of the first two seasons were pure Roddenberry. Especially the sexual elements -- like most of the sci-fi luminaries of his era, he was a total degenerate. Cf. Asimov, Clarke, Zimmer Bradley, etc.

[@SheldonAdama17]

S1 did give us a few good eps like “11001001”, and S2 gave us “Measure of a Man”. Regardless even the worst TNG ep is better than nuTrek.

[@moonsofmadness8850]

I wouldn't call them "bad" though they weren't great, either. The biggest mistake (and I will die on this hill) was Wesley (and that was long before learning Wheaton was an insufferable pr*k, but I do endeavor to separate art from "artist"). I was tempted to just turn it off when they introduced the "genius boy wonder who is so much smarter than the smartest engineer" trope because it wasn't hard to see where that was heading, but I gave the show a fair chance since it was Roddenberry's _Trek_ and glad I did. Just like any series (in my experience), the first season always has its fits and starts, trying to find its footing. S2 was better than S1 though not by much, but it was improving as the characters developed. As for the last 2 seasons, well... I think there were more misses than hits there.

[@ressljs]

I just recently watched Season 1 for the first time since reruns in the 90's. It was a tad bland, but most of the episodes were far from "bad." Code of Honor is probably the only episode I thought was pure trash. After season 1, I rolled right into Season 4 (dictated by what was on the shelf at the local used movie and game store), and it was definitely better.

[@InceyWincey]

To be fair the young genius who is smarter than all the experts is a thing that does happen in the real world, and just like Wesley they do also tend to be completely insufferable.

[@chainsawsubtlety9828]

Always liked "Conspiracy." Should have been a two-parter, though. Or, they could have gone back to that well later in the series, or in, say, Voyager.

[@Tony-Plinkett]

The only think really 'hokey' about Conspiracy was those plastic looking, 'alien bugs', running across the floor... It looked they used some kind of 'Stop-Motion' photography, otherwise it was terrible. They even crawled up the actors' legs, and then they had to swallow them... ewww!

[@jcdenton2187]

I wish Conspiracy was followed up on. It was very different from the rest of the series.

[@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388]

It kind of annoyed me when I was young. It was to much like later 80s trash TV and bad 80s B movies, and it didn't seem like Star Trek. I really hated how they went to Earth quickly. It undermined the concept of a large exploration ship with families onboard. I found it jarring (though entertaining) when I was young. I didn't know if I wanted to see more of the aliens. I didn't like the trashier media of the 80s.

[@chainsawsubtlety9828]

@@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388 What did you do to Tom Cruise? Call him short? Or gay? Or did you make fun of Scientology?

[@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388]

@@chainsawsubtlety9828 Right after I trashed him for being a loon and yelling at staff, my account was nuked. I lost a huge playlist of babes.

[@AstroNerdBoy]

Part of the problem with S1 is that it was often written like 1970 TOS S4, only with 1980s special effects and a different crew. S2 suffered from a writer's strike and other writer's room issues. But as you mentioned, there are good episodes in both, and that was enough to get us through to S3.

[@MrSpike320]

Chuck with SFDebris mentioned that in one of his reviews. During S1, Roddenberry was very much in control of the writer's room, and he hadn't ran a weekly TV series since the original ended so he was "out of touch" with the way dramas were being done in the '80's. That's why we got episodes like "Code Of Honor", "Justice", and "Angel One", which always felt like they were leftover scripts from the TOS era. Maurice Hurley was the showrunner for S2, and from all the stories I heard, he was a complete a**hole on set. He did give us The Borg though, so I will always be grateful to him for that.

[@2bituser569]

I heard many of the trek phase 2 scripts were used in s1-2 so that’s the reason it felt like a continuation of tos.

[@anonimuso]

They weren't THAT bad. Were they the weakest of the series, yes. But I would take seasons 1 and 2 of TNG over anything from Nu-Trek any day. I would take any season of Enterprise over Nu-Trek. Hell, I would take Star Trek fan fiction over Nu-Trek. Some of my favorite episodes are the ones that younger people find cringey. I love "Up the Long Ladder".

[@RoboSantasRevenge]

I also like “Up the Long Ladder.” It strikes me as a kind of Heinleinian episode because of its farming society with large families and traditional gender roles.

[@loginregional]

I actually went out of my way to take a good look at this episode a couple of months back. I rather like it. And not just that, I just realised the Mariposans DID get Riker's DNA after he double-backed Brenna Odell, if you know what I mean.

[@loginregional]

@@RoboSantasRevenge "Women are amazing creatures-sweet, soft, gentle, and far more savage than we are." ― Robert A. Heinlein

[@devmag52]

@@loginregional Do you want to learn more?

[@jimtaylor294]

Roddenberry & Heinlein are kind of two sides of the same coin. One was the soft hearted [classical] liberal idealist; while the other was a harder hearted liberal realist.

[@augustlion5105]

I didn't know until long after the series ended that there was a Star Trek Phase 2 series that never happened and a lot of those plots were repurposed for TNG. No wonder it took some time for the series to find its own identity.

[@TheAutistWhisperer]

I think I would rather watch those two seasons than anything New Trek.

[@davidsanders5652]

Yes. They were pretty bad. Unless you compare with the first two seasons of Discovery, in which case... pretty good. OR you could compare them with the first two seasons of Picard in which case... GENIUS. All relative isn't it?

[@Grabthar191]

Yup, comparatively TNG seasons 1 and 2 were Shakespeare. Also one of the greatest episodes were in that time frame like "Measure of a Man.", of course "Who Watches the Watchers" wasn't until Season 3

[@mmadmuor7149]

Sad but true. But even the first two seasons of Enterprise are masterpieces compared to Sh*tcovery or Prickcard.

[@Semeyaza]

I'll take the Dr Crusher Ghost House episode anyday over ANY Disco or Picard episode. Really, no problem. I'll take ten consecutive views of the aformentioned episode actually. :D

[@davfree9732]

Every 1st season has a few good ones. For me TNG’s opening seasons had a different hurdle to overcome. The cinematography altered. The first season is relatively darkly lit and the sound is on par with a sound stage. Trio’s “Farpoint station” line sounds like it’s coming from across the room.

[@EddyA1337]

Wait though measure of a man is one of the best episodes

[@StreetPreacherr]

And I believe the 'Riker Clip Show' was filmed during the WRITER'S STRIKE which stretched from March 7, 1988 to August 7, 1988 (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Writers_Guild_of_America_strike), so they were forced to construct an episode mostly featuring existing footage just to fill out the season, since writers weren't working on fresh material...

[@tomohawk52]

I really liked the idea in "Justice". The execution, however, was abysmal. For starters, it would have been better if it involved a different member of the crew, and that the crew member received their punishment.

[@peterg76yt]

Better still, involved the same member of the crew, and the crew member received their punishment.

[@StreetPreacherr]

As a young teen at the time it first aired, I was at least VERY satisfied with the costumes in that episode!

[@SheldonAdama17]

That ep was so bad I quit TNG for three months. I consider it even worse than “Code of Honor”

[@syntaxusdogmata3333]

I remember cheering as Wesley was sentenced to death, and enraged when the crew flagrantly interfered with the planet's established justice system. 😏

[@apreviousseagle836]

Man, I never understood the Wesley hate (Will Wheaton is a cock though). "Justice" was probably one of those Roddenberry "I love sex" based stories. A planet where people get it in anytime they want, lol definitely sounds Roddenberryesque.

[@AndyG73]

I wasn't aware of budget cuts for season 2 of TNG - I thought both the shortened season (only 17 episodes) and the final episode 'Shades of Gray' being essentially a clips show was down to there being a Hollywood writers strike at the time.

[@RealBadGaming52]

season 1 and 2 are my fave tng seasons, the 1980s syth music is great

[@stevenps9633]

I've just started watching TNG again and I'm startled at how good it is, season 1 & 2 are a work in progress but are head and shoulders above anything released today.

[@RealBadGaming52]

there my favourite seasons of TNG

[@famalam943]

The score from Ron Jones alone makes the early seasons watchable. They’re not great as a whole, but the score really does elevate it to another level IMO. It’s atmospheric and the obvious late 80’s filming style give it a charm. When I watch the later seasons, I can’t help but think how amazing it would have been. Just watch & listen how the score picked up the Romulan’s first appearance… The generic TV show music when Jones left just didn’t cut it.

[@grimlock8369]

Yes they were that bad. But that's ok its part of the "charm"

[@ajmittendorf]

No, they weren't "all that bad." Lots of GREAT episodes and characters came out of those two seasons. They are certainly not the "best" of TNG, but they are much better than the vast majority of the Voyager series and better than ALL of Star Trek after 2008.

[@JoTheVeteran]

I didn't remember all those good episodes being on season 1, and 2. What made season 1 bad in my opinion, was Riker's lack of beard. Other than that, I didn't have a problem with even the Justice episode. Who doesn't want to see Will Wheat phased, or beheaded, or whatever it was.

[@shawnregina9110]

I’m just researching TNG on Netflix now. I’ve never watched them straight through. But I think the quality is there. I’m enjoying it.

[@billyg8614]

Love "Q Who" from Season 2, where writers introduced us to an enemy who couldn't be defeated or reasoned with, combined with Q's impulsive decisions made for an interesting episode.

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

Personally i always LOVED the first 2 seasons a lot more than the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th. Because the whole vibe of the show felt eerie and uncertain. You never knew what would happen next and the more electronic Score also added to this vibe. I always loved that and this is why TNG, when i was a kid, always had this strange and alien look and feel and yet it was Star Trek through and through. Mostly because of the appearance of many veteran writers and actors of TOS. The seventh season of TNG again had a LOT of amazing, experimental and really eerie episodes that really makes the whole show feel like it comes full circle and it also has one of the most wholesome and well done closing of a show. I never understood why people didn't regard the first 2 seasons of TNG with the same love as they did for season 3 onwards. But then again i also never understood the hate for "Star Trek V the final frontier" or "Star Trek insurrection". Also DS9 had a rough start as well but that was mainly due to the stories that seemed like they held back a lot and nobody of the writers really knew what to do with the characters.

[@marcodavinci3150]

I completely agree as well, all my favorite epsiodes of TNG were in the first two seasons, there was a charm and tone that went away after. I never realized could be the score as well!

[@juresaiyan]

I concur with ecerything you wrote. I also love the 7th season of TNG.

[@zaniq23]

@@juresaiyan - does that include Sub Rosa?

[@juresaiyan]

@@zaniq23 not Trek's finest hour, to be sure, but I liked the episode.

[@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388]

The first two seasons are more entertaining and edgy though trashy.

[@jamesgoss1860]

DS9 episode A Man Alone: "Murdering your clone is still murder!" Riker and Pulaski in Up the Long Ladder: 🙈 🙉🙊

[@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388]

A mixed bag is a good description. I hated how they went back to Earth quickly in Conspiracy. This undermined the concept of a long distance exploration ship with families. I thought this was very dumb.

[@knighriderredux]

I think Season 2 had some great gems IMO. Q Who, A Matter of Honor, The Measure of a Man & The Emissary are fantastic.

[@HobbyView]

If I recall, Season 2 occurred during a writer's strike, so at least one episode was taken from stories written for Star Trek Phase II back in the 70s. Also, the actress that played Polaski was in a couple episodes of TOS.

[@senorpepper3405]

Pulaski was a babe😂couldn't imagine until I watched a tos episode after the fact.

[@deckardcain9789]

At least Pulaski developed as a character. From disdaining Data as a clever piece of gear to being his friend and seeing his personhood.

[@chrislutz416]

The writer's strike in season two is why we got the worst TNG episode which was simply a flashback episode.

[@Simgor2]

Those first two seasons of TNG are still a million times better than Kurtzman's Nu Trek garbage.

[@MikeAMyers]

I think the clipshow episode had more to do with the writers strike that year than anything else.

[@StreetPreacherr]

Yeah, I don't think most people remember there was an extremely contentious strike of all SAG writers where no new shows were being written for nearly a year in 1988, shortly after TNG started...

[@davejones9469]

One thing that bugs me about Measure of a Man is that Riker should not have been legally qualified to "represent" Maddox because of conflict of interest, but also a lawyer has to "genuinely" believe their clients are innocent to represent them. Even I've had lawyers say "I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that." in an absolutely serious way to me.

[@patrickstewart3446]

I’d also like to think there was more than 1 JAG officer per sector so that you wouldn’t need to assign officers just for contrived conflict.

[@takerdust]

I preferred Voyager's first 3 seasons as a whole, but later seasons had some of the strongest episodes, usually involving the Doctor.

[@RealBadGaming52]

season 3 had the great Futures End two parter and such great eps with the Doctor like Living witness.

[@mildlyobsessed]

Code of Honor is always unfairly dismissed as racist and cringe IMHO. The writers were trying to show interactions with a non western society, the talk at the time was the Ligonians were supposed to be a combination of Africans and Sioux Indians. Picard's realization of what was going on and his turning the tables on the schemer Lutan was a good early example of what Patrick Stewart brought to the TNG cast. The audience was not interested in non-western cultures and the writers never tried to portray them again.

[@garym6315]

It's so easy for people to jump on the "racism" bandwagon, but surely racism only applies when you are portraying that race in a bad light? These people were aliens, not Africans or african Americans (though as you say, they were inspired by a certain race). That's like saying the Klingons are racist because so many of them are black.

[@Regin314]

Not my favorite episode but I do agree in it's unfairly dismissed, and I blame false perception.. I hear many people say that Ep shows Ligonians (POC) as primitive violent people while S1X08 Justice shows the Edo ( Caucasian ) a peaceful loving paradise, but if we were to switch races between episode .. they would now say its racist because it shows the Ligonians as a complex society and a very progressive high culture girl power people and the EDO as Hyper-sex society who has no real knowledge or understanding ... but like you it just my opinion that I think it's bias perception ..

[@mildlyobsessed]

@@garym6315 Too many viewers couldn't see past the black actors to the story being told. I think the Ligonians were originally supposed to be lizards but the budget wouldn't support that.

[@greenmonsterprod]

The inconsistency was mainly a reflection of the backstage problems they were having during production. It resulted in a lot of conflict over just what the show was going to be. Eventually, things settled down and they got their ideas and goals aligned. It's interesting that this is the opposite of TOS, which had very strong episodes in its first two seasons, while production troubles resulted in a weaker third season.

[@mikavirtanen7029]

Things settled down when Roddenberry got too ill to micromanage every aspect of the show and when his hatchetman/lawyer Leonard Maizlish got finally boot from the set. That's when Berman hired Michael Piller to head the writing room which saved the show and probably the whole franchise.

[@jamespowell617]

The worst episode of TNG is better than all the episodes of dreadful Disco trek combined.

[@saladinbob]

I've never agreed with the two-season curse theory, and I would encourage you, and anyone else, to re-examine the first two seasons of DS9 and ENT. Voyager never got going, but the first two seasons of Enterprise where the last time we saw exploration in Star Trek, and DS9's first two seasons had superb episodes like Blood Oath, which brought back the iconic TOS trio of Klingons. Yeah there's some stinkers in both, but the overall quality is far in excess of what the narrative surrounding them would have yo believe.

[@WillmobilePlus]

TNG suffered from being in an era of cringy 80s sci-fi tropes, spotty special effects, and being in the shadow of a still active and beloved TOS. Sci-Fi on TV was overall not that popular either. My mom was a huge fan of TOS, and thought it was terrible. I didnt start watching until 1990-91 (11-12 years of age), and when they reran the early seasons, I was like "WTF?". Still am. Still a great thing to have on, but the contrast were jarring. Early TNG was more pure indie Sci-Fi like you would read in magazines like "Science Fiction Age" or "Omni", and later seasons were more polished and "safe" with a more tight writing team, but still good. And let's be honest, most of you would think TNG was pure cheese if they started showing it today. Nostolgia and a dislike of the new stuff will make some of you think all of that was just a masterclass in Sci-Fi.

[@theTeslaFalcon]

While a couple of those S1 episodes were rightly described as horrible, I liked nearly all of S2 & found Pulaski a more likeable doctor than Dr Crusher. She's more downhome like Bones: treating the person, not just the injury. I will admit that rewatching STNG in order when I bought it on DVD was a different experience than when I saw the episodes weekly when they first aired. Some aired out of order, and some character points didn't carry over as clearly in my 13/14 yo brain. "Justice" was teen boy fodder w the skanty costumes & body paint.

[@jefff3886]

I now commit Star Trek heresy by declaring that I think Dr. Pulaski was a FAR better doctor than Crusher. The character, not the actor. And I don't know why everyone hates on Diana Muldaur. After all, she is a ST veteran, having appeared in two episodes of TOS.

[@sjrex2553]

Could have been worse; it could have been the first 3 seasons of Voyager. To sum up, Voyager had bad writing, horrible fx, God awful makeup. The cast was really solid though like TNG; it's just the cast talents could not make the stories watchable.

[@ralphsexton8531]

I didn't mind Up the Long Ladder too much. You missed or forgot that in that episode, the Mariposans and Bringloidi were from the same colony ship. It broke up in flight. The section with only a few colonists, almost all of the manufacturing capability, and the data repositories became the Mariposans, and the section with almost no technology, most of the colonists, and basically all of the animals became the Bringloidi. So, the agreement to put them together was really just reuniting the descendents of the original crew. Kind of interesting in a way.

[@alankohn6709]

You could see them trying out their character but I have to admit I could of made a nice dinning table out of some of the acting in the early episodes it was so wooden which was perhaps thrown into a some what harsher light by having such a skilled and seasoned actor like Patrick Stewart to compare it to. In the early stages the good episodes were good and the bad episodes were pretty below average. In later seasons the good were great and the bad merely Ok

[@sulijoo]

Up the Long Ladder was symptomatic of how Americans still view the Irish (while laughably pretending to celebrate their own Irish heritage once a year). If you don't believe me, then explain the episode of Voyager called Fair Haven, which is still full of stupid Irish stereotypes (and continued further in another related episode). Once is forgivable. But twice? Three times?

[@kevink1575]

Overall, yes, but season two is relatively good sci-fi. I'm here for any TNG talk regardless. Thanks for the video!

[@jakeschutz6342]

Season 7 is the worst season of TNG. Too many episodes that are straight up melodrama and way too much Data. Also very little world building like we got in seasons 3-4 and some of 5. Also, the earlier seasons have way better music given that Ron Jones was still the primary composer. Later seasons just had that boring wallpaper of sound and there were no distinct themes or leitmotifs.

[@migueltrujillo8929]

I remember watching "Conspiracy" as a 4 year old. I was so creeped out by that episode I wouldn't touch anything Star Trek again until I was 7.

[@Ozymandias1]

I liked season 1's The Neutral Zone because it showed how 20th century people coped with living centuries later and it introduced the Romulans in TNG.

[@TONYGILLEY]

I'd agree that the first two seasons are a bit of a mixed bag, but in some of the bad episodes had an enjoyable Star Trek V quality to them. I actually do like the Irish farmers/Dying Clones episode. Seasons 3-6 were definitely improvement over the first two seasons, especially since those seasons actually experimented with season storyarcs a little more mixed with the stand alone stories, something that DS9 would strive with. I'd argue season 7 is mixed bag as the creative team seemed to run out of ideas, resorting to near TOS-season 3 stories, only managing to stick the landing by the finale...until the TNG Movies sh*t the Bed.

[@gerardcote8391]

While I disliked the first 2 seasons , oddly the ones Roddenberry had total control over, Code of Honor while considered cringe, I have to defend. In TOS there was a multi ethnic cast of regular crew members, whenever they went to a new planet, the populations were almost always all white. Gene probably got a lot of criticism over this, and insisted on more ethnicity diverse humans aliens. If you compare the extremely low budget for the show and compare it to thr big budget Black Panther, then take away the production values and CGI, then compare the two the black representation is almost identical. You cannot praise Black Panther then call Code of Honor cringe.

[@rosschannells5407]

Used the Holodeck to much...lot of the episodes....original trek beam down to a planet The Holodeck must be 6 football fields long

[@joshuacalkins]

I think the first great ep was S2: Time Squared, with 2 Picards. (As opposed to the show Star Trek: Picard, which has zero Picards).

[@dash4800]

When you compare the first seasons of TNG and the other shows to modern star trek they look much better in comparison. Sure TNG looks cheap and dated and the other shows take a minute to find their footing, but they are still telling far more interesting stories than anything today and they actually are creating characters that you can enjoy watching. I'll take a slow, cheesy 80's show with guys in spandex onesies having philosophical debates over cringy millennials with lesbian haircuts yelling and crying while they blow everything up in a giant CGI mess any day.

[@skwills1629]

Q was never a Villain. With His Power if He were Villainous He'd simply have destroyed them . If the Goal was to Toy with thm, thats...not that Villainous.

[@bazzzzz6175]

...and just like Doctor Who, I'd still rather watch the worst of TNG than most of the new Star Trek. Great wee video, mate.

[@brianmcguinness9642]

The first two seasons weren't all that bad. They certainly blow away the Voyager pilot and anything from Abrams or Kurtzman.

[@Anthyrion]

To be honest: I liked Pulaski more then Crusher. I think Pulaski had a lot more persona then Crusher. She understood Worf, tried to understand Data and in case of being the Chief medical Officer, she even stood up to Picard sometimes.

[@mstcrow5429]

"Code of Honor" is a very, very important episode. It shows that wristwatches still exist in the 24th century.

[@donaldfarquar]

Series 7 night have been worse than series 2. Series 1 problem was they were obviously just re-purposed TOS storys

[@mikeyandwho]

Didn't realise people didn't like them, I'm watching TNG for first time at the minute, nearly at end of S1, and loving it

[@garywillig5143]

Season 1 is truly horrendous, worse than anything else Star Trek has ever produced and some of the worst content in the entire medium of television. TNG really did not deserve a second season, but that second season was a big improvement and actually had a couple of great episodes. By season 3 it was like a completely different show.

[@Mike80528]

I loved TNG, but I would take the first two seasons of Babylon 5 over any two season of any of the Trek shows.

[@thoughtsonfitness3249]

No! They are absolutely epic compared to the crap knocked out since 2009!

[@exgrinder]

As bad as season one and two were and arguably three, however most characters where likable or were written as simi realistic people. Can’t say the same for Nue-Trek