Capitalism Vs. Socialism Debate: Arthur Laffer & Richard Wolff

[@Nackakliniken11]

After such short time you have created the best macro channel out there, all categories. Congratulations!

[@TheDavidLinReport]

Thanks! 😃

[@fleshpistol]

For real, I look forward to this channel every day at work. Its quickly become my #1 channel. I am mainly a crypto weirdo but gosh these macro talks are fascinating and I learn so much.

[@raygaub9861]

​@@TheDavidLinReportA democratic workplace doesn't eliminate a hierarchy any more than a democracy does. It just changes and gives legitimacy to it.

[@markarbanasin4]

​@raygaub9861 Exactly. And if you listen to Professor Wolff's larger argument he clearly uses hierarchical co-ops as examples. The CEO still exists. But the major distinction is they are accountable to the employee base rather than the Board. And coming back to a more equitable society - it's pretty clear you will balance interests towards a longer term positioning rather than constant short term cycles to hit quarterly metrics rather than true longevity. And also compensation will obviously be managed to a level that the broader employee base feels is equitable. That does the mean same pay for unequel work, but also curbing the extremes occurring at both ends of the scale.

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

​@@TheDavidLinReport Arthur Laffer makes me laugh. Having a phone may still make me poor among the living humans but if he compares me to the dead people from 1000 years ago, I am richer than all the dead Kings, because none of them had a phone. Laffer makes me laugh. Comparing the wealth of a living being to a dead being is very useful for the Wealthy.

[@Jessupz]

The capitalism defender can't stop advertising his book. It's like a perfect example of capitalism and it's endless, mind numbing marketing and advertising.

[@Dan16673]

Stil better than starvation

[@Jessupz]

@@Dan16673you mean like the starvation of over 5 million children every year due to malnutrition and it's related diseases that happens under global capitalism?

[@stevencats7137]

@@Dan16673POV: you watch Fox News

[@sten260]

because capitalism defenders are smart, they are not there to waste their time, better advertise and sell something while they are at it.

[@teeletsetse445]

I hear you. I prefer communist posters and pamphlets. 😏

[@Sandcrackattack]

I love that Laffer brought up Einstein as an example of rational thought. Einstein was a devout and outspoken socialist.

[@ericmacrae6871]

At first, I taught you said Esptein instead of Einstein

[@Sandcrackattack]

@@ericmacrae6871 oh damn, that would be different! 👀

[@arthurzetes]

You can take one part of what someone says without having to accept or validate everything.

[@aktube9084]

Einstein was not really "outspoken" about it. He seldom mentioned it. He also admitted he knew nothing about the economy and was basically going off vibes

[@Sandcrackattack]

@@aktube9084 I wouldn't recommend making up things to make your point. History exists. This lie about history and repeat is common white supremacist patriarchal capitalist practice. I get it. When there is little moral ground to justify supporting the theft, murder and exploitation of humans and the planet a capitalist system needs, you must find any way to defend it. Hey you do you. But Einstein in fact was understood the economy very well. It ain't rocket science. Economics is NOT that complex buddy. But w.s. capitalist will try to be gate keepers of their insane abstract art. LoL. Einstein even wrote an essay in 1949 titled "Why Socialism?". I own it, have read it and being someone who has taught science and economics classes, he understood it. What fun fantasy will you conjure up now to defend this w.s. system of death?

[@AbbeyRoad69147]

Wow! There is NO MAINSTREAM MEDIA that comes close to this David. Not even 100 miles.

[@TheDavidLinReport]

Thank you! I appreciate the gesture

[@gort3969]

KZbin steals 30% of that superchat

[@ElementaryWatson-123]

Don't know how David managed to get those guests, but that was the best debate I've seen for a long time.

[@antoinemellinger]

@@gort3969 KZbin is run by a bunch of socialists

[@junkscience6397]

@@gort3969 "Stealing"? lol. I know on which side of this capitalism/socialism debate you reside. If not for KZbin, you wouldn't know David Lin for squat. There's be ZERO audience. Think about it just a bit more...

[@teritaylor2034]

I worked in 1975 for a home office insurance company. We had profit-sharing, retirement pension, health insurance and life insurance, and low cost auto insurance. They had a President, Vice President. It was great while it lasted. The profit sharing was amazing.

[@teritaylor2034]

What happened so suddenly that there are no longer any benefits at all.

[@genrcflyer]

@@teritaylor2034Reagan and the “Chicago boys.”

[@kjw6383]

​@@teritaylor2034Reagan my dear 80s were hell

[@goldensilver793]

I like Prof. Wolff. He's not afraid to get in the ring with anyone and always very clear on his position...

[@kyleinpa5285]

He’s definitely not afraid and is very clear, but he’s straight up wrong.

[@Diabolical05]

He's not afraid to look like an idiot... He got schooled in this interview jsut as he got schooled when debating Gene Epstein..

[@ExPwner]

@@Diabolical05yep this

[@LongDefiant]

​@@ExPwnerancap = unable to think

[@ericsuarez834]

​@@kyleinpa5285He is totally right

[@jermainemyrn19]

Richard wolf honestly made a lot of things clear for me. I see what he's talking about with my eyes

[@Dan16673]

Just another tankie

[@jermainemyrn19]

@@Dan16673 I don't know what that means. He's qualified and spot on with how capitalist functions

[@Dan16673]

@@jermainemyrn19 another justifier of commies and their insanity

[@sten260]

I think he is mostly wrong and his solution doesn't make any sense, democracy at the workplace? what the hell does that even mean? Worker doesn't own the workplace, they are just there to temporarily do some job and get paid for it. Worker doesn't care about the profits and losses, they get paid their market price and thats it.

[@dorinpopa6962]

​@@sten260a co-op is a shared ownership of the company, so yes, he is talking about shared ownership by the workers essentially.

[@MysticYT925]

This debate is VERY telling when you have an economist that has worked in the White House say “democracy no matter where it is doesn’t work and we need to regulate who makes decisions" EDIT: also David I must thank you for hosting this debate it is something that the US has been sorely missing for decades but I do think you should have done more at the end to prevent Dr. Laffer from interrupting Prof Wolff as he was never able to complete any of this thoughts due to Dr. Laffer constantly interrupting him and it wasn't until you stepped in and told Laffer to let Wolff finish that the conversation finally became stable again.

[@ExPwner]

That is because he is an economist working with the facts and not a blowhard fool like Wolff who makes things up

[@jasoncuculo7035]

Republicans always rudely cit people off.

[@arthurzetes]

What’s telling about it? The USA has never been a democracy. The founding fathers made sure it wasn’t. Its a republic/ representative democracy with two legislative bodies based on two separate criteria. Pure democracy is just mob rule.

[@GaryBetterton]

I agree.

[@Mrtrancefreak50]

Socialists and commies shouldn't have a voice anyways

[@DBenfordMusic]

The post office is not a company. It's a government service, just like the DMV.

[@ExPwner]

And both are terrible

[@ChrisGenXer]

Any chance of you doing another debate or discussion between these two once they’ve read and analyzed one another’s book? That would be an amazing Part II to this discussion.

[@huwhitecavebeast1972]

There would be no point to that. There is no debate between socialism and capitalism. There is no way possible to argue that socialism is superior to capitalism. The argument does not exist, and the arguments proffered are always full of holes. Socialism is a giant con game, one that usually winds up mass murdering its own citizens and impoverishing the rest. Richard Wolff and his tribe are THE problem in this world.

[@ahsimiksnabac6576]

that would be nice, I don’t mean to be rude, but as someone who seems to never have had an original thought, i suspect Laffer is functionally illiterate.

[@ExPwner]

@@ahsimiksnabac6576 project elsewhere with your illiteracy.

[@azmadu]

No that would be pointless and a waste of everyone's brain cells. When someone who during a two person debate can't comport themselves equitably when the other is answering you know there's something wrong. Telling Dr Wolff to read his book repeatedly as if it's the definitive tome of economic theory and history is akin to people saying the Bible is a historical book. Socialist countries failed due to imperialism of the USA and the vassal states of Europe. We're all now experiencing the inevitable demise of the criminal enterprise called capitalism and if the elites need a history lesson they should look to France in 1789. 🧐

[@LongDefiant]

Laffer is a bit of a yawn. He's a one-trick pony. Ok, fine he thinks he knows how to make a bad system grow faster. Wolff knows a better system. They are on totally different levels.

[@hafifi57]

I am enjoying this debate. I am learning a lot from Professor Wolf

[@karleells6540]

@@hafifi57 never trust a socialist that lives under capitalism- by choice. What a coward

[@karleells6540]

@@hafifi57 Wolff is a lying socialist fool. Lol. My god. Get an education on economics

[@aureamediocritas-r9d]

@LeonardoPisano-sn2lp just cry men :p

[@DimitriKiluve]

Likewise 🙏 I followed him great man

[@karleells6540]

@ imagine the level of complete lies and misinformation you have to believe to follow Richard Wolff? Wow. How sad.

[@petercohen5563]

“…a government that TRIES”? How can the Government do anything against the wealthy and corporate when politicians literally rely on the wealthy and corporations for their careers?

[@jellybelly9662]

exactly!!!!

[@rielbertrand8255]

Dictatorship of capital.

[@karleells6540]

@@petercohen5563 get money out of politics

[@karleells6540]

At least the Republican Party has common sense, and the policies of the Republican Party helps the middle class rather than the democrats that just CLAIM TO help the middle class.

[@BmovinzFirstorlast]

Don’t forget the super pacs that give money to politicians like aipac then they take the same money to pay off politicians on both sides money laundering indeed

[@charlescarmichael2444]

The improvement in the quality of life and the escape from poverty has NEVER been seen the way it has been seen in China over the last 20 years.

[@johnnewton3592]

I love how Professor Wolff knows capitalism better than Mr. Laffer does who is a major supporter of it. I find that this is a very common when talking to anyone how is a large supporter of free markets and capitalism as it stands. Rather funny if you think about it.

[@Diabolical05]

How did you come to that conclusion? Richard Wolff couldn't even define capitalism or give a direct definition for it while debating destiny.. Nor can he give a direct definition of socialism... I am curious though, how did you come to the conclusion that Wolff "knows" capitalism more then Laffer?? I suspect you came to that conclusion because his though on it aligns with yours..?

[@themoonrider351]

Absolute nonsense, its clear Mr. Wolff never worked in the economy and instead used his sheltered being as an academic to pump his brain full of abstract macro economics like Marx. He doesnt understand the policies hes fighting for are bogus and completely unrealistic. Its like someone who thinks they know how to fight cause they watched Rocky. If you want me to go into Detail let me know..

[@ALL_CAPS__]

​​@@Diabolical05Professor Wolfe is also a historian. He would know more about the historical context of capitalism. He always gives historical context when speaking. It doesn't matter how many statistical figures you wanna throw out, it doesn't mean you're right in your analysis or your presentation of them. Which is all Laffer did. Aside from agreeing with most of Dr Wollf's arguments. If I remember correctly, the professor gave Destiny a historical lesson. He didn't want to hear it, understand it or acknowledge it. Much like most do when you challenge their views.

[@ExPwner]

Wolff does NOT know capitalism better as shown by him lying right out of the gate and being corrected by Laffer

[@AlanDavidDoane]

Well, it's impossible to support capitalism if you actually understand it.

[@dohyunio]

You actually did it!! Congrats on making this happen - pls do more debates, bull v bear!

[@daveh6424]

Peter Schiff vs Michael Saylor

[@fredfrond6148]

@@daveh6424 I would click that one even faster than I would this one.

[@Legionare]

Richard Wolff is an Educated Idiot ! Please stop indoctrinating kids.

[@Dasein2005]

This was excellent. I don’t praise KZbinrs often, but you were an excellent moderator. You let them speak and interact, keep questions relevant and quick, and kept things moving when necessary. Well done.

[@KaleSmithHawaii]

Up until the 1 hour mark , I’d agree the debate was managed well At that point , Laffer loses his cool , obviously unable to defend his position without bluster and speaking over Wolff. Unfortunately, I left at that point. Couldn’t get passed the screaming

[@johnmacward]

I think he didn’t do such a good job… Laffer from close to the very start interrupted Wolff within seconds of starting his point, and completely took over from Wolff at least three or four times… our fine moderator did nothing about this.

[@ExPwner]

@@johnmacward Wolff did not have a point. He was lying and making things up.

[@jamesbarry1673]

We have a mixed economy, both capitalism and socialism like most of the West

[@moviathan]

Kick ass David! Great seeing a debate!

[@audrajones]

Professor Wolff was so patient

[@DCastro9mm]

It's like play chess with a dove.

[@karleells6540]

@@audrajones because he knew he was being exposed as an idiot socialist

[@karleells6540]

@LeonardoPisano-sn2lp How do you think a professional sports team would operate as a democracy? Lol. Nope.

[@RISHUKUMAR-fm8kw]

@LeonardoPisano-sn2lp you see the video at 30:35 sec he say that we see collapse of Chile then you also know who did it and it is not a secret

[@avordshaw6244]

Well that might be because the AHole on the other side wouldn’t let him finish a sentence.

[@ChrisGenXer]

By far and away, this has been THE best show you’ve done and it was incredible!!! Mainstream media doesn’t do this and you have two titans debating. It was such an awesome show!!! Loved it! Well done David!

[@abelsantamaria4694]

Late comer but thank you. It was very interesting and educational debate.

[@thaThRONe]

What is the point of having a moderator if they are going to let one guest talk over the other guest consistently

[@micro-uhgresh-uhnn]

Very poor moderation

[@VagabondQ8]

Exactly

[@captainahab4325]

You meant to say Laffer trying to bullshit his greedy bullshit over Professor Wolf.

[@Notsam12345]

@@captainahab4325100% correct. Like a Zionist spokesperson

[@RueMontagu]

My take away from Laffer's argument is that he wrote a book and was the first political capitalist to go to China in the 70s.

[@TwoTonTaft]

But did you know he wrote a book? I wonder if he'll tell us

[@oscarg8449]

@@TwoTonTaftMaybe read and learn some. Should cure the socialist disease

[@danielopdenakker3010]

Laffer never mentioned that + 200 big american corporations went to China so to benefit from low taxation production and cheaper exports to the Us making huge corporattions very wealthy. Now he blames China for the economic downturn in the Us economy. De- dollarisation and freezing foreign assets and weaponizing the petro- dollar makes investors flee the Us dollar. The Fed reserve bank foreign assets are leaving the dollar as a world stable currency. The world doesn't trust the Us anymore. The Us elite shot itself in the foot. The chickens are coming home to roost,or boomerang effect is another way of saying things. Western unipolar hegemony is declining..! The multi- polar world is on the rise. Rather Sooner than later all the institutions installed after WW2 will be obsolete. We in the west need the money to create new jobs,having double glazing and energy efficient heating systems installed and affordable houses being build. So stable secure jobs will make us happy. What do the americans want? 2 jobs? Being obese and diabetic and eating crap fast food junk that tastes like cardboard or sitting at a family table eating healthy home made food and not rely on drugmedication..! Let's make a choice.🙏🙏🙏

[@danielopdenakker3010]

Most people, like Laffer, take the opportunity to use these shows to sell their books.He still believes that the capitalistic system is still the only answer to become a great nation. But who runs the show in a great nation? The hard working american poleople that need to have 2 jobs to "make months end meet". Why does the Us rely on cheap imported oil from faraway countries while it sits on its own oilreserves? Too expensive to dig up your own oil, not enough money to be made? You Mister Gaffer should tell your fellow people the real truth that your country De- INDUSTRIALIZED since the 70ies onwards and that your american + 200 big corporations went to China. Big hypocrit so you are..! Where do you hide your stash? In the Us or on an offshore account where your tax office cannot tax you and your wealthy friends. Stop talking bullshit and interrupt Richard Wolff in a rude manner.

[@danielopdenakker3010]

Living in denial is like believing in your own lies and selling these to the public still hoping they will buy these lies...! DHEUU..! PEOPLE do not read books anymore You tube gives more accurate and updated info,Laffer. By the time you wrote that book the book is gone obsolete..! Waste of paper and ink. China invented the ink..! Did you know that?

[@NF-ru8on]

Art Laffer kinda lost it at around 1:15:00. Seemed to almost switch off from being somewhat reasonable to "im not gonna let Richard finish his points anymore".

[@timc1604]

Well, he was frustrated. He was defeated intellectually, not knowing and understanding the points that Wolff was making. All he had left is to talk over and pout.

[@ExPwner]

@@timc1604no he wasn’t. He refuted Wolff’s lies directly

[@karleells6540]

Because art got sick and tired of wolffs bullshit lies.

[@karleells6540]

@@timc1604 Jesus. NOWHERE in the world are Richard wolffs ideas successful. You get that? Richard attracts the dumbest people

[@wyz9815]

@@karleells6540 that is how I think of than other side!

[@theinfralink6598]

China is collapsing in front of our very eyes? 😀😀😀😀. Well China only produces 60% of world’s EVs, 60% of high speed rail, 40% of computer chips, 80% of solar PVs, etc etc etc

[@navig8a]

Up until the end, this was by far the best debate of this contentious topic, that I've ever seen. Thank you for sharing this. Much respect

[@xye-NYC]

Agreed, Art Laffer towards the end just kept interrupting Wolff.

[@aubergineaura9441]

Laffer is a rich powerful person living in TN. He is immune to the fact that TN has one of the lowest life expectancies in the country; highest number of diabetes, cancer, and un/underinsured (TN never took the ACA Medicaid expansion); one of the lowest residentially-owned property rates; some of the lowest education scores in the country; and on and on. The people have been exploited since the state was founded, and it has only gotten worse the last 20 yrs. It has never really changed from a plantation economy--with a few rich, a handful of middle class, and most at the very bottom of the economic pyramid. TN is consistently ranked one of the most corrupt states in the nation! So, Laffers comments about TN, are, as usual for him, only partly factual. Its a great place if youre rich like Laffer. Otherwise, it's miserable!

[@TheRobynbrown]

Yes and they are kidding themselves - we never really abolished slavery!

[@Dan16673]

Ya if only the gov came in and forced it better

[@karleells6540]

@@aubergineaura9441 Laffer is a brilliant truth teller vid wolf is a stupid lying socialist

[@hoggarththewisesmeagol8362]

Good 'ole Tennessee

[@karleells6540]

@@hoggarththewisesmeagol8362 live free in Tennessee

[@bennykwong3172]

Bravo to David to bring them both in for the debate! Lol😅

[@logik05rr05]

5:52 it was under a Gold Standard and a Free Market System for a 100 years+, until 1971, when we shifted to a Neo-Feudalist Fiat Debt-Tax Enslavement system.

[@karleells6540]

@@logik05rr05 yeah. Government sucks as socialism sucks

[@rv3022]

Fantastic show!! Thank you, David!!

[@pxkii]

My gosh this is the best, an explosion of knowledge. I save it for tonight entertainment.

[@markf4968]

Love the debate format David!

[@kjw6383]

Who cooked Adam Smith's dinner? You know she was never paid. Women do most free labor on earth. F the economists

[@dsgio7254]

indeed.

[@bfmgxdx]

Outstanding David!!! We need more such debates vs hearing someone spout their opinion unchallenged.

[@estroumpis]

Great work David! These are the kind of debates we need!

[@peteferguson518]

Arthur Laffer and the moderator won't let Dr. Wolff speak.

[@fannyalbi9040]

he is a vietnamese suffering severe stockholm syndrome. that’s why

[@arthurzetes]

They did until Wolff was lying.

[@zarategabe]

@@arthurzetes What lies?

[@arthurzetes]

the part in the video where laffer calls out wolffs lies @@zarategabe

[@Bentleyyoyo]

wow great retort, "justify your assertion" "uh the part where my assertion was justified"@@arthurzetes

[@catloverJ]

From what I am gathering, Laffer goes, “don’t hurt the competent”, and Wolf was like, sitting at the finishing line, “watever system, C or S camp, someone gotta figure out what to do with all the rest who does not fit the singleton competent model”. We need both Laffer and Wolf, ideally in the House. Unfortunately, people sitting at the hill WANT TO AVOID WORK, which is fighting for what they themselves believe in.

[@YourLakelandSloth]

David you are amazing for arranging this. Also shout out to Arthur for showing and defending his position against Wolf. I tend to be more sympathetic to Wolf’s position but I am glad he is being challenged Wolf is very articulate so it’s hard to find people willing to debate him. Can’t wait to listen to this and I hope it was a sound debate.

[@Raelspark]

Yaron Brook debated RW very well.

[@ryanosterman2651]

@@Raelspark no he didn’t, historical revisionism is hilarious.

[@Raelspark]

@@ryanosterman2651 Yaron Brook defeated Wolff on the facts.

[@ryanosterman2651]

@@Raelspark no he wasn’t he was lying. He made a bunch of switcheros and disputed the facts when they weren’t in his favor.

[@ExPwner]

@@ryanosterman2651 that’s a lie. Yaron clearly had the facts and it was Wolff who was lying.

[@GA-gd3wi]

Hey David just a suggestion after around 1:10:00 when the conversation became heated there could have been some more intervention from you as a moderator to organize speaking times. It felt like you had disappeared here. Otherwise great job with this presentation!

[@VagabondQ8]

I totally agree, capitalism guy just wanted to interrupt and stop professor wolf from talking, what a pity man

[@karleells6540]

@@GA-gd3wi Wolff never shuts up, and he’s always full of shit.

[@eminalopatyuk6812]

Debate of debates! Thank you, David.

[@s.l.george7348]

Per Lars Rasmussen, prime minister of Denmark, "I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,”

[@MrGrass97]

Markets and socialism are not antithetical.

[@s.l.george7348]

@@MrGrass97 FREE markets. Free is the operative word.

[@MrGrass97]

@@s.l.george7348 I didn’t stutter. You think you have completely “free” markets under capitalism? No. There’s plenty of regulation and all currency is printed and backed by the respective governments. If we had a completely free market with no regulations, we’d be drinking sludge and eating poison for example. It’s also clear you’re not familiar with socialism. As all socialism is is the collective ownership of the means of production by the workers. Mostly everything else would operate the same.

[@s.l.george7348]

@@MrGrass97 It is you, who isn't familiar with the term, "free market". Free market = an economic system in which prices are determined by unrestricted competition between privately owned businesses. I am familiar enough with socialism to know that it has failed every single time it has been implemented. It is a pathetic form of government. Not only does it always fail, it inevitably leads to totalitarianism. Socialism is the personification of the lethal duality of incompetence and immorality.

[@s.l.george7348]

@@MrGrass97 It is you, who isn't familiar with the term, "free market". Free market = an economic system in which prices are determined by unrestricted competition between privately owned businesses. I am familiar enough with socialism to know that it has failed every single time it has been implemented. It is a pathetic form of government. Not only does it always fail, it inevitably leads to totalitarianism. Socialism is the personification of the lethal duality of incompetence and immorality.

[@ΚατερίναΚαραγεώργη-δ6λ]

“China’s economy collapsing in front of our very eyes” 😂😂😂

[@waimoy552]

“China collapsing in front of our eyes” haha ROFLMAO, this reminds me of Gordon Chang, that he said China is collapsing every year for the last 20 years. Look at the debt ratio between China and USA. We, USA will collapse and buried 6 feet under long before China shows any sign of collapsing.

[@donthiebautable]

Right? They've been saying China is "collapsing" or "is about to collapse" for years on end. Maybe it will someday, but it sure as hell hasn't yet, lmao

[@fannyalbi9040]

the moment spill this, i sense con man talk

[@ericmacrae6871]

​@@fannyalbi9040well I knew he was a fascist from the start and I am not surprised that what he said because people like him are clueless about how the economy run especially the Chinese economy

[@fannyalbi9040]

@@ericmacrae6871 eat regurgitation 🤮 is disgusting yet most people buy it.

[@midnightrider5797]

One of your best! Really enjoyed these guys! Get them back on soon.

[@harryholiday5356]

The very best economic discussion I have ever seen. Wish those who make the rules could have such a discussion. Thanks so much,

[@mE-zx7pt]

They can but they'd rather talk to their donors.

[@user-ib9bk7nq6s]

Seemed like they were talking past each other and focusing on their expertise. Wolff was talking about the organisation of the workplace and Laffer was responding by alluding to economic growth after tax cuts in particular administrations. It was actually a very pointless discussion lmao

[@guapochico69]

Laffer is a demon he only wants to cut taxes for the rich and cut social programs for the poor that's literally his entire economic platform and kansas tried it and it failed miserably

[@ExPwner]

@@guapochico69 Kansas did not put into place his ideas. Quit lying

[@guapochico69]

@ExPwner so you literally had no idea kansas did this? All you have to do is look it up its on the southern poverty law centers website and the kansas economic forums website. Every kansas economist learns about arthur laffurs ridiculous policy failure. The fact you have never even heard of this explains how you could possibly support this dumb$hit

[@markballard1515]

I think hemissed the mark at 39:30. No one is saying China's growth was due to socialism. Instead the notion that socialism prevents growth was being addressed.

[@ExPwner]

Wolff repeatedly uses China to try to claim that socialism is the fastest growing system, which is wrong. His claim that the USSR was the fastest growing is false (Japan had that), and his claim that socialism did it for China is also false since they grew by moving away from socialism and not towards it. This is also further cemented by looking at the private sector gains far exceeding their share of the growth. Private farms in the USSR produced way more of the food supply than their share of the total farms, and Hong Kong for example produced massive growth compared to its size.

[@markballard1515]

@ Is China socialist? Has China experienced growth at a rate the US never has?

[@chazcmeekins83]

China is working under an Authoritarian State Capitalist System especially since their market reforms in the late 70s. The way their economy has worked for 40 years is the government owns a slight majority share (around 51-54%) of Market firms/Businesses in most sectors. Unless you believe Government Ownership =Socialism/Communism then in no way is the China "Communist" Parties policies actually anywhere remotely Socialist or Communist. Doesn’t China have the 2nd or third most Billionaires? The only differences between China and the United States is the Political Party One party State tells the Billionaires what they can or cant do while in the United States the Billionaire/Wealthy class tell our Government what it can or cant do. China basically besides its more precise control on their Economy is an Inverse of the United States not an Opposite.They also i guess are definitely more Authoritarian in how their political process works. Oh wait Wolf also talks about this i guess i should've waited.... @ 25:10

[@erikavarga7060]

Fantastic discussion. Great job David. Part 2 after they read each others books please.

[@itsbaxter2]

Great job, David! This was an amazing debate.

[@bcadams75]

I can't thank you enough David. This style of discussion was so common in the U.S. on MSM 40-60 years ago. I look forward to the future where brilliant minds like Art & Richard are showcased on independent channels because I have no hope MSM will provide it. It's super difficult to find someone to debate Richard, so hats off to Art, & again David, much appreciated 🙏

[@tedwong7037]

Its sad to see people like arthur laffer bragging hes the one constantly on CNN, NBC etc and having a bigger influence.

[@karleells6540]

@@bcadams75 nothing brilliant about Richard.

[@darbofuchs9021]

43:00 this is a good idea but how would you impose it?

[@karleells6540]

@darbofuchs9021 there lies the problem. Richard Wolff refuses to admit that he wants authoritarian

[@darbofuchs9021]

@karleells6540 There was the attempt to impose something like that in SFRJ. First the socialism like in the Sovietunion was implemented after the second world war and the revolution. A couple of years after the break up with Stalin Tito and his comrades startet with selfadministration in the enterprises but in my opinion it did not work well.

[@karleells6540]

@darbofuchs9021 I always find it interesting how many people praise Wolff yet they don’t notice that he quietly advocates for government forcing private companies into being co ops.

[@darbofuchs9021]

@karleells6540 He is a grand intelectual and I agree with some of his thoughts but not with all.

[@karleells6540]

@ I am curious what you agree with? I side far more with Laffer, and I see little that Wolff is truthful about

[@ousamaabdu794]

Commentors... Who do you think won the debate. It was close but I would give the W to Richard Wolff.

[@bcadams75]

Both made sound points. One ideology has never been tried, while the other has been rinsed & repeated but still doesn't work. Removing my personal bias, Wolff was patient & concise, while Art's cognitive dissonance made him keep repeating capitalism's broken record ideology.

[@keithfoster6042]

Nothing close about it.

[@ExPwner]

Nah Laffer wins this one hands down just on the opening clip and Wolff lying

[@micro-uhgresh-uhnn]

Richard, hands down!

[@TheFallinhalo]

@@ExPwner its funny how youre going around saying Prof wolff is lying or wrong, and yet you can never seem to point out how or why? Fascinating isnt it? its almost like you dont even know yourself what is right or wrong. but i know thats the case seeing youre profile picture, the Yellow and Black denoting a Anarcho Capitalist, someone who follows the teachings of the most silliest and obviously juvenile thought of economic belief, that somehow if you just remove the state/govarnment and leave things to the free market that humans will look out for eachother and not have people with all the wealth in society exert their power and will onto the populace to become the new (and impossible to remove) State/Govarnment. while destroying everything else int he world in persuit of profit. but im not going to exspect intelligence from someone with such obviously ill concieved beliefs on economics as you!

[@SamWhitlock]

I don't think I've possibly clicked faster on a youtube notification in my life! 😄

[@petiger6646]

I've really enjoyed this debate. I think both Arthur and Richard want the same thing, they just don't agree on how to do it. My personal view is that since 1972 and especially 2008 the central banks have used quantitive easing to increase the value of assets, making the financial markets and corporations more wealthy, whilst fiat currencies have been debased, causing inflation that has hit the working classes especially hard. This excessive printing lead to the revolution in France and Germany going to war. Elites elsewhere in Europe made sure they didn't make the same mistakes, and so the game continues!

[@Xthis1s4youX]

Unfortunately I would say they do not want the same thing at all. Perhaps due to his long standing career as a defender of the current economic and political system, Prof. Laffer is, as Prof. Wolff pointed out, naturalizing the capitalist system. He implies that the employer/employee dichotomy we've grown used to over the last 300 years is inherent to humanity, and that we have somehow reached the end of history, with no way to progress as a society. So what he proposes is a bunch of tweaks here and there to the same system, hoping that it may somehow change anything at all. There are two completely different conversations going on during this debate: - Prof. Wolff is analyzing the history and evolution of economic systems, through the lens of the dominant workplace relationships (master/slave defining slavery, lord/serf defining feudalism, employer/employee defining capitalism), and then proposing what relationship is to be the next dominating one in society; - On the other hand we have Prof. Laffer, who is discarding this analysis completely as "I don't think it will work but i'd love for it to", while in the meantime actively working to undermine the efforts of anyone trying to achieve said society or said workplace relationship. And I mean this quite literally as he has taken part of a few administrations that intervened, both militarily and through the CIA, in the internal affairs of other countries, predominantly in Central America. He contributes to the efforts to remove any socialist or communist platform anywhere as part of the legacy of the Red Scare. He definitely does not want the same thing as Prof. Wolff. When he says "we want the same thing, we just don't agree on how to do it" he is either completely delusional, or does it as a desperate attempt to shut down the conversation as if it's just a petty difference rather than deep baseline divergences. You can see it on Prof. Wolff's face just how absurd he knows this phrase to be But then again the net worth of Prof. Laffer is estimated to be around $8 Million (stockholder and one of the directors of his company), he is one of the primary beneficiaries of the current economic system and therefore most of what he does is part of an effort of self-preservation. It is very difficult to make someone understand something when their career and livelihood is dependent on not understanding it.

[@Mars_Life_and_Beings]

Private boardmembers allow an easy transition to private equity ownership. Allows faster consolidation/M&A. Underperforming pieces can be readily sold and moved offshore.

[@karleells6540]

@@Mars_Life_and_Beings yeah. That’s how business works you genius

[@michaelstephens6775]

Very good interview. The bottom line is a capitalist system and well as a Democratic Republic require a moral society. The founders of the United States new that the citizenry had to be moral. It is even more important that our leaders be moral (government or company). I would think most people would say we are lest moral today than just 20 years ago.

[@jd218]

Haft to ask which of the gazillion gender should are moral leaders be? And who chooses decides them? Pretty clear we no longer have elections we have selections

[@robbiecotner3666]

The greatest generation upheld values because their friends died for them. It seems as that generation waned, so did our values.

[@sawsaw7]

I agree with that, but it is ironic since liberal capitalism is (as I see it) one of the main driving forces of the corrosion of moral and values we now see today.

[@Dineo-i9x]

This was NEVER a moral country and never will be until the empire rulers are rubbed out and the descendants of enslaved African people and Indigenous people receive restoration. This empire was founded on slavery and genocide, there’s nothing moral about that.

[@karleells6540]

Who cares. Capitalism is freedom.

[@criticalthinker9829]

Dr. Wolf is brilliant

[@samuelcorriveau3216]

Great content, as always !❤

[@wayneandrews1022]

It would be interesting to see the post-mutual-book-review discussion.

[@katz8541]

Great debate! Now I want to see the data that says that if the rich get richer, we do too, LOL. Thank you David!

[@GeoffreyPicketts]

It usually just leads to homelessness and high costs; the money gets smuggled at the top, the costs rise for the rest. Just look at all the problems where the tech booms occurred.

[@Ridiculoidus]

Supply-side economics, AKA trickle-down economics, AKA horse and sparrow economics . . . because the horse eats the grain and the sparrow picks food out of the horse's shit. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics

[@ExPwner]

@@GeoffreyPickettsno it doesn’t

[@ExPwner]

OP that data is at Our World In Data

[@Ridiculoidus]

​@@ExPwneryeah. It's so easy to find. I knew that data point prior to this debate and I must believe Laffer did as well. Wages haven't moved for 6 or so decades, adjusted for inflation.

[@pojack9979]

Respectful discourse. Two gentlemen. We need many more like them.

[@daveh6424]

However, we need less socialists.

[@Legionare]

Richard Wolff is an Educated Idiot ! Please stop indoctrinating kids.

[@Lexman00]

OMG! David you are the MAN for making this debate happen! God bless you brother.

[@costaselgreco]

Excellent debate! Thank you

[@jonmariegarlan9170]

A DEBATE REQUIRES TWO PEOPLE GIVEN AN ALLOTTED AMOUNT OF TIME TO MAKE THEIR POINT. THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

[@costaselgreco]

@@jonmariegarlan9170 dont be so pedantic.

[@wakilsinare-sj9hh]

Thank you for bringing dr wolff🎉

[@Br.ajjoujjenberry]

Laffer would just not let Wolff speak at the end

[@timc1604]

Well, he was frustrated. He was defeated intellectually, not knowing and understanding the points that Wolff was making. All he had left is to talk over and pout.

[@ExPwner]

@@timc1604he refuted Wolff’s bullshit. Wolff lied. Grow up. Wolff was the one getting owned here

[@ericsuarez834]

​@@ExPwnerNot at all but you would only think that way if you suffer from the same denial these capitalist supporters do

[@karimb972]

​@@ExPwnerif he is right then he doesn't need to interrupt him and keep him from speaking, the truth will shine on its own. Tyrants , dictators and bullies that don't have the truth on their act like Laffer and you are defending him

[@karleells6540]

Because Wolff just told lie after lie. Art Laffer was right.

[@teragaga]

Absolutely wonderful. Two great thinkers, David sets the tone. It turns out awesome. 💯💯👏👏❤❤

[@huwhitecavebeast1972]

I wouldn't call Wolff a great thinker, a good BS artist maybe.

[@ExPwner]

@@huwhitecavebeast1972 exactly

[@stevencats7137]

@@huwhitecavebeast1972wow great analysis

[@ericmacrae6871]

​@@huwhitecavebeast1972ah yes trickle-down economic as work so well and we see how one of the framer of trickle-down economic refuse to take responsibility for the mess that he has created

[@ExPwner]

@@ericmacrae6871 there was no such mess created. You are again spouting bullshit with no evidence

[@Trip4man]

My God... What a wonderful debate! Should be on TV and everywhere! I'm in awe really. This is what politicians should be doing... Sit in front of the public, present the numbers and figures, go through the decades and see what's right and wrong. I must congratulate EVERYONE who were part of this! Arthur, Richard and David... Just... UNREAL. This was amazing!!! Thank you all

[@thegoodspringguy]

I used to support capitalism but after watching this, I am no longer convinced of its merits.

[@michaelmappin1830]

I guess it depends on what side of the fence you're sitting on. If you have enough Capital, then you don't have to work for a living. You can just live off of other people's labour in perpetuity. However, if you're a worker, what are the people being exploited, then capitalism really sucks.

[@ExPwner]

@@michaelmappin1830capitalists are not living off of other people’s labor. Don’t you get tired of lying for a living? You already got proven wrong on this multiple times before including on live debate. The labor theory of value that you are relying upon to peddle this false statement has no merit.

[@ExPwner]

Also OP is blatantly lying. He did not support capitalism.

[@surfbum8166]

@@thegoodspringguy that is the true purpose of educating oneself: to earn the ability to change your opinion.

[@Slim333yBoi]

@@ExPwner So what is passive income? What is rent seeking? You deny basic logic so there is no use trying to reason with you. You simply fantasize about being a property owner that can subject others or to be subjected yourself, even if you do not admit it.

[@SK-vg3mw]

Thank you for your work Sir! This channel was outstanding already, but you just brought it to the next level! 🔥🔥🔥

[@TheDavidLinReport]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@raveneye12]

I run a small business. Last I checked, we were still a big chunk of the economy. I have no idea what this professor is talking about he saying I should get a bunch of my employees together and democratically. Decide what we’re going to do?? How would I even get a business started, I would randomly meet people on the street and have a democratic process about starting my business?? What if these people were complete idiots. It seems his point is focused on very successful large enterprises that may make a lot of money but what I think he forgets is most of those started small enterprises that were dependent on an owner to get going Innovation would come to A complete stop.

[@Charles-lz2tz]

Art Laffer is a joke! Pun intended. Classic capitalism and Neo capitalism are completely different. After world war 2 true capitalism was slowly transformed into the Neo capitalism we have now. That is why we have such income inequality today. When the very rich make the rules through lobbying the benefits of those rules will all go to the rich. The poor collect the crumbs left behind. Bailouts are not true capitalism, but socialism for the rich. If we lived in a real capitalistic system the bailouts would not have happened causing all the boom bust cycles that lead to inflation . The rich want socialism for themselves (Bailouts) when they fail, and capitalism when they succeed. Our world is run by hypocrites!

[@keithfoster6042]

It’s political, and the super rich now own the political.

[@EM-dw2yv]

100 💯 agree with you.

[@greenovertone]

Yeesh I cannot swallow someone equating socialism with bailouts. Such bails follow concentration of wealth, monopoly, ingestion of government and externalization of losses : features of capitalism. Socialism is worker ownership [ exists because workers were mistreated in capitalism [ dictatorship at work ] and co-ops are self-correcting to approximate community interests.

[@ExPwner]

@@greenovertone literally none of that is true. None of those are features of capitalism and that is not the definition of socialism.

[@l.j.r.8448]

True capitalism has never existed. I agree about Laffer.

[@reaniegane]

David, I don’t know if you realize this, but with this kind of awesome content, you are directly competing with Netflix and prime. I would actually watch this video in a movie theater for a date night with popcorn!

[@TheDavidLinReport]

Best date idea

[@Trip4man]

@@TheDavidLinReport Dude... You should be proud of yourself! It was AMAZING. And yo... You got two Champions of their ideology to level the game. It was great! This is what politicians should be doing you know.... Not that circus we see on tv's

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

@@TheDavidLinReport Arthur Laffer makes me laugh. Having a phone may still make me poor among the living humans but when he compares me to the dead people from long ago, I am richer than all the dead Kings, because none of them had a phone. Comparing the wealth of a living being to a dead being is very useful for the Wealthy.

[@karleells6540]

@@Trip4man Richard Wolff is no champion. He’s a fucking SOCIALIST ECONOMIST. LOL

[@princeannor7518]

Well done dude, for bringing these two great minds together. Ofcourse very educative and insightful. You said it and you made it happen. Cheers!

[@karleells6540]

@@princeannor7518 no one that’s a socialist is a “great mind”. Lol

[@VM-ob8bs]

Professor Wolf clearly has no awareness of Yugoslav socialism, which aligns perfectly with his depiction of his ideal vision for socialism.

[@karleells6540]

@@VM-ob8bs exactly

[@NataliaRoush]

This is one of the most productive discussions I heard. Honest conversations like that would propel humanity in the right direction! This is exactly what we needed to have in the USA. Excellent job David thank you so much!

[@LongDefiant]

Laffer kept mischaracterizing Wolff's position. He kept calling him Chairman Xi while also praising China for it's growth?? Quite embarrassing, TBH.

[@karleells6540]

@@NataliaRoush we just had this discussion in the USA. It’s called Trump got re elected. Thank god.

[@Ouphfta]

Thanks David, great show! It did feel like they both want the same outcome/euphoria. Laffer seems to think the current system can be fixed, and maybe it can short term (micro). However, as Jeff Booth says: "A system problem cannot be solved from the system creating the problem." - Wolff seems to have more of the "macro" mindset.

[@themoonrider351]

The exact opposite is the case. The socialist wants to fix the problems caused by socialists policies with more socialist policies, aka micro manage. The capitalist wants to fix the problems caused by socialist policies by abolishing these policies. Democratizing companies sounds nice until you realize all the bureaucracy that comes along with democratic decision making. Companies need to be nimble and adaptive, but I dont blame the socialist prof for not knowing that. Studying Marx and other abstract literature about macro economics seldom leads to realistic and practical policies.

[@Raelspark]

Wolff may not necessarily be for scraping the whole capitalist system. In many of his talks the big thing he cares about the most is the relationship between the Employer and the Employee. He really believes it's unfair. If that problem can be fixed and made more Fair, I doubt Wolff want to kill and cook the goose that lays the golden eggs --- which can be taxed for social programs.

[@Sandcrackattack]

​@@themoonrider351 it seems you didn't understand what socialism is ... there aren't socialist policies. Any "socialist" policies were implemented by capitalists and their political actor puppets to prevent the volatility and instability of any capitalist system. If economic power, actual power of land, resources, people... were democratic, our political system would become more democratic. We aren't talking about more or less policy and regulation. We are talking about a change in the actual economic system. Capitalist apologists also never acknowledge that ALL capitalist wealth is built on theft exploitation and state violence. Nation states historically developed because of the oppressive needs of royalty and then capitalists. Countries exist because of violence and dominance. I believe most humans, if they experienced a worker coop, would choose to have a say in their well being and how their company ethically operates in their community and beyond. Statistically and historically, whether ya wanna believe it or not, has higher productivity, higher worker-owner morale, safer work spaces. But some peeps rather believe in "dreams" than understand the material realities of systems and how humans relate to one another. It is literally the American dream... to everyone being an owner of the work they do. At the end of the day, capitalist apologists MUST be honest that they are antidemocratic and more champions of dictatorships... boards of dictators (oh sorry it was euphemized as directors). That they believe the majority of humans are beneath or less than a minority of the wealthy, predominantly white straight men. Hey peeps should support what they support. Just when you take pride in a system which relies on violence, theft and exploitation through economic dictatorship, there will be consequences.

[@themoonrider351]

​@@Sandcrackattack Literally checked all the boxes for cultural marxist buzz word bingo when reading your comment. There are in fact socialist policies, just because they have been implemented in a capitalist system by capitalist, doesnt change the nature of the policy. The chinese government has implemented a bunch of capitalistic policies despite being a communist regime on paper. Besides the fact that nobody seems to be able to give a comprehensive descritption about how your anarcho communistic or anarcho syndicalistic system is supposed function in real life, the attempts I have read have about as much to do with democracy as the democratic peoples republic of north korea. But feel free to prove me wrong, descripe your utopian system to me and answer me these three questions: 1. How do you ensure that your ideal system remains socialist / anarcho communist? 2. Will your citizens enjoy human rights and if so, how are you planning to protect those? 3. If you democratize your companies, will employees (in this case also the owners) have to cover for finanical losses the company might suffer?

[@ericmacrae6871]

​@@Sandcrackattackand when you point those things how capitalism is a neo-slavery system they think that you are nuts

[@sl-lz3dw]

Each time when Laffer gets animated and wont let Wolff say another word on his thread it seems it is to try to derail Wolff to avoid that capitalism IS abandoning and/or reducing the reward for more and more workers (that have been its labor base). No matter what it may be doing for owners and investors what 'trickles down', as Laffers beloved Reagan liked to describe it, is excrement. Laffer wants you to look at wall street benefits and keep your eyes fixed on that, as if not noticing a crowd taking up torches and pitchforks near the horizon would make that crowd dissolve.

[@ExPwner]

Nonsense

[@sl-lz3dw]

@@ExPwner Nonsense is claiming to be against authority and for capitalism (ancap colors, no?) Virtually every business other than worker co-ops and equal partnerships larger than one person ends up constituting a private government in the life of the person(s) in an employee role.

[@sl-lz3dw]

@@ExPwner James Adams? ...Waffle Street?... Sell Out?...

[@ExPwner]

@@sl-lz3dwemployers are nothing like governments 😂 you just made a clown of yourself

[@sl-lz3dw]

@@ExPwner Sure they are. Specifically they are modeled on dictatorships. You're the one wearing grease paint on your face.

[@raveneye12]

By the way. I know business owners in China this shining example uses as a model. They do the same thing that American business owners do they take the vast majority of the profits and the risk of loss. Now a lot of them are losing and going out of business some of them are still doing really well.

[@karleells6540]

@@raveneye12 yes. Business owners get the profits- in the business THEY OWN.

[@raveneye12]

@@karleells6540 exactly. Who else should get the profits but the person who took the most risk and who ran the company. Nobody else has so much invested in making sure the company is successful.

[@jayjenkins6021]

China did not "take off" economically until they adopted capitalistic markets.... 1000 points of light... something like that. It was capitalism that allowed Chinas growth.

[@ExPwner]

Exactly. Wolff is a lying idiot.

[@Jstoney127]

China's "capitalism" is still guided from top to bottom by a large powerful communist party. This is NOTHING comparable to anything Laffer and western capitalists are advocating.

[@kevinwilkins7851]

They have always had state owned enterprises and still do. Banking is a public utility in China that is tightly regulated. Their economy is not financialized like ours and their central bank writes off bad debt. Our banks keep garbage loans on the books as "non-performing" assets. They do not allow monopoly capitalism to run them into the ground which is why they have commercialized their own industry which incidentally produce better products than ours but our government doesn't allow Huwei and Chinese EV's to be sold here. Their economy is similar to our 19th and early 20th American System that Hamilton through Teddy Roosevelt envisioned.

[@GenghisX999]

Black cat white cat as long as it catches the mice. These debates do not take place in China not because they are not allowed but because it completely misses the point. The underpinning of the China system is socialism meaning how to raise the standard of living for all Chinese people. Some capitalistic methodology is not a problem.

[@josorto9505]

Love this debate. We need more brilliant minds like these two more often.

[@karleells6540]

@@josorto9505 Laffer is brilliant, while Wolff is laughable.

[@listenisrespect1776]

Wow…..wow…wow, what a great debate, thanks so much for bringing this kind of content, this is priceless

[@daviddobarganes9115]

How can Laffer say Wollf is wrong about wages when he won't even discuss the REAL wage? How can he claim at @14:35 that the reason capitalism isn't sharing prosperity is because of government? How can he use Salk (actions without a profit motive) as a defense of capitalism?

[@ExPwner]

He is talking about real wages. Wolff is factually wrong on this.

[@karleells6540]

@@daviddobarganes9115 nowhere in the world is socialism successful or better than capitalism at innovation

[@vanessaosmani8381]

I cannot believe how the GDP is still used as a meaningful measure of growth in a society.

[@tedwong7037]

Becos if we are using PPP terms, US is no longer No.1.

[@arnavsrivastava458]

Read a macro book sometime

[@vanessaosmani8381]

@@arnavsrivastava458will do.

[@johnHofweber]

The moderator ought to have asked Dr Laffer to let Dr Wolf speak without interruption toward the end of this ; I doubt I'll watch another one of these discussions hosted by Mr. Lin given how unfairly Dr Wolf was treated. Shameful...

[@fannyalbi9040]

indeed. then again, he is a vietnamese suffering severe stockholm syndrome. that’s why

[@karleells6540]

@@johnHofweber it’s hard not to interrupt such a proliferation of lies by wolff

[@johnHofweber]

@@karleells6540 well then, if you ever host such a discussion, I'll try to avoid that too...

[@karleells6540]

@@johnHofweber notice you ignore the lies by Wolff. You also ignore the hypocrisy of Wolff by his socialist support while he surrounds himself with capitalism personally. How sad you people on the left are.

[@karleells6540]

@@johnHofweber so you think a lying professor should not be called out repeatedly? Jesus.

[@caseykuzdrowski5204]

🔥 You always know who’s genuinely open minded vs who’s genuinely closed minded to new concepts and ideas when one person constantly begins to interrupt, loudly talks over the over the other with straw man, whataboutism debate tactics. Wolff is 100% on point. Sadly, there’s a lot to laugh about with Laffer. The biggest thing Laffer doesn’t recognize is really quite simple. That is, If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always gotten. EOS. 👀💯🚬

[@ExPwner]

Wolff is not at all “on point” and spewed outright lies. Correcting someone else when they lie is not being closed minded or losing the argument, it is righting the wrong.

[@surfbum8166]

@@caseykuzdrowski5204 so true

[@karleells6540]

@@caseykuzdrowski5204 Laffer is on the winning side globally, Wolff is not. Get a fucking clue.

[@gurt8161]

Great debate Jeremy ! We need more of this in the senate and house. Straight up debate

[@alrizo1115]

Why China's progress is fast is because it's directed primarily by a competent government. The country acts as a single company that directs everything depending on the primary needs of the population in contrary to a country with lots of private companies that can go in many directions.

[@Jstoney127]

but but but Capitalism is efficient and and China has Capitalism dooohhh. -Laffer

[@karleells6540]

@@alrizo1115 you fool. China is an authoritarian state. My god.

[@Kefir1973]

Greetings from Germany! This was a really great debate. Great work!👍

[@JeffChartier100]

I like proff Wolf, but I have no vision for democratic socialism. Power hierarchies always emerge. People undermine group think, deliberately, to stand out, to gain leadership.

[@fatdoggolovespizza]

And as of this recording you've proven yourself to be a phenomenal and fair moderator as well!

[@jkptsang5803]

Great show, David!

[@mikevanover1721]

I hope they take Wolf's money and give it to someone who didn't earn it

[@karleells6540]

@@mikevanover1721 exactly. Well said.

[@dthomscappello]

They already do that, we live in a capitalist system

[@VerneTobierre]

Hello Professor Wolff, you're a good Communicator and Explainer. You're so good at Economics, I wish I had taken a course in Economics and you were my Instructor. I'm enjoying the debate as well. I do prefer Capitalism to Socialism. However, I do believe hyperinflation and productivity stagnation are also the results of trade unions involvement in labor laws. Capitalism can be very risky because of predatorial earnings due to trade union negotiations. There're not too many trade unions in regard to a Socialism Economy because of government control. What I'm trying to say is, I believe trade unions are destroying Capitalism because trade unions have the ability to convert a producing economy into a consuming economy which I believe is a bad deal for a Capitalist Country. A Capitalist Country as far as government is concerned, suppose to generate revenue through payroll taxes as far as employment opportunities are concerned. Some investors and manufacturers relocate overseas seeking cheaper cost of labor which means they are avoiding labor union wages. Remember, the main objective of a manufacturer is to make a profit. Meanwhile, if they were to eliminate trade unions out of Capitalism System, then, the economy will experience deflation which means you'll have more economic power to buy more goods and services which will stimulate the economy both locally and globally as a result of trade balance between manufacturing countries. The US, for example imports on a megascale from China, but China on the other hand, imports very little from the US. Now, talk to me. I didn't study Economics, but I'm just trying to use my common sense. Common sense is not common.

[@enzorocha2977]

Lol so many unsubstantiated claims. Nice try, CEO.

[@VerneTobierre]

​@@enzorocha2977Thank you. I always prefer to try and fail, than to fail to try.

[@burambura1011]

Amazing

[@emmeadowmitbbs3537]

Following Laffer's logic. Every time you use drug, you feel happy and high. That's a fact, not an opinion. There is scientific proof to this fact as well. Therefore, the way to get happiness is to use drug all the time.

[@arthurzetes]

Not happy. Just high.

[@hehmda]

@@arthurzetes Is there a difference really?

[@arthurzetes]

@@hehmda yes. High is a sense of euphoria. Happy is a more calm feeling.

[@karleells6540]

@@emmeadowmitbbs3537 that’s ok. Capitalism has been proven to be the global winner by far. Fuck socialist failings

[@karleells6540]

No. Laffer speaks to common sense. Wolff just lies about common sense

[@TXLionHeart]

Great discussions like this used to be the norm in America; we need to bring that back. Thanks for hosting this fantastic debate! Also, the fact that both men are older than our president, yet 1,000X more intelligent, shows that mental acuity is far more important than age.

[@ericd9827]

And they are 100,000X more intelligent than Trump.

[@karleells6540]

@@TXLionHeart there’s nothing intelligent about socialism

[@JakeTurnerhyperion]

This guy just called GWB a socialist OMG just on that alone he lost this argument.

[@GabrielHellborne]

Why did Prof Wolff bother debating this intellectual nullity? He's a Reaganite and a Chicago boii. He's a priest for the status quo and the gross inequality we find ourselves in. And goddamn annoying as he keep banging on and on and on and not letting Rick reply.

[@ExPwner]

😂 Wolff is beneath Laffer by a long shot because Wolff is a lying Marxist. If anything it is policies he wants that are responsible for the problems and crises we have seen, not Laffer.

[@davidsmith5917]

​@@ExPwnerwow you are pathetic 😂😂

[@ExPwner]

@@davidsmith5917 nope that’s just you

[@VagabondQ8]

​@@ExPwnernope he's totally right and any sensible person would see the same thing unless you didn't watch the interview to the end

[@nthperson]

As I wrote above, Professor Laffer's understanding of the effects of taxation is flawed. As with all neoclassical economists he fails to accept that nature (i.e., land) is a factor of production with very distinct characteristics from labor or capital goods. Land has a zero cost of production; nature is provided to us to exploit. We do not produce nature. We simply use our labor and capital goods to produce FROM nature.

[@micksingh6711]

These guy's are both right and both wrong at the same time. This is absolutely beautiful and brilliant. Thank you all. 👊🏽👍🏽🙏🏽🇮🇳🇬🇧

[@scottmccutcheon9828]

I tend to agree with your comment. Laffer and Wolff didn't even discuss many other essential topics. My question is, why? True capitalism hasn't existed for decades. And neither gentleman acknowledge that fact. And that's only one item they didn't discuss.

[@micksingh6711]

@@scottmccutcheon9828 So well said. When the big bank's f*uk up who bails them out? Socialism is the little people. But otherwise it's Capitalism. Crazy shit.

[@gmw3083]

​@@scottmccutcheon9828 True capitalism has never existed and never will. Big government systems are always morphing to serve chosen groups. Particularly those at the top in maintaining their status. Those at the the bottom currently get to maintain theirs, while more join their ranks. At the end of every epoch, the serpent eats its tail and civilizations crumble.

[@Legionare]

Richard Wolff is an Educated Idiot ! Please stop indoctrinating kids.

[@Ridiculoidus]

@@scottmccutcheon9828 "True capitalism"? What do you mean? When most people say this, they say something like, "we've never truly had a 'free market'". Is that what you're trying to say? We haven't had truly free markets because the investors don't want that. They want to socialize their risks and privatize the profits. This is 100% what happened in 2008.

[@surfbum8166]

Excellent video David! Compelling arguments on both sides but I would go with Wolf’s vision of a new type of socialism with democracy in the workplace. When Laffer gets exasperated and overtalks Wolff towards the end of the video shows he was on the ropes and losing the “debate”Honestly this is one of the best videos I’ve seen on the subject!

[@ExPwner]

It’s a terrible idea hence why coops do not dominate in a free market. They make lower profits and pay lower wages. Forcing the economy to be coops like Wolff wants wrecked the USSR and Venezuela.

[@karleells6540]

@@surfbum8166 you want democracy in the work place. Go start your own fucking business where everyone gets a vote on everything. What a joke. Meanwhile, the rest of us will run the businesses WE OWN the way we want to. You can leave if you don’t like it. Jesus.

[@Richard-ki4nkgm]

Wtf is income inequality? Even someone doing the same job at the same place if business as another doesn't mean they should earn the same income. One may display better traits for the job and that is determined by their manager or business owner. Not to say there arent cases of descrimination or spitefulness but such will be even more the case with external people trying to manage everything

[@Ridiculoidus]

Laffer's response to Wolff's solution: "I disagree." Art totally ignores that democracies aren't necessarily hierarchical and it's ok to have spokespeople, presidents, and representatives in democratic systems. Complete and total failure to respond to Wolff's system.

[@mkperez7465]

Because Wolff is speaking in fantasies that don't exist, rather than the actual real world that the real economy lives in.

[@Ridiculoidus]

@@mkperez7465 It's not though. There are plenty of examples. Here's one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

[@morningstararun6278]

​@@RidiculoidusWhy people always look for the Mondragon? Huawei is an even more of a shining example than Mondragon. If it isn't from the West Europe or from a white Christian country, it doesn't count?

[@Ridiculoidus]

@@morningstararun6278 Don't assume Huawei isn't held up as an example because white people are racist. Perhaps you can provide another argument for why people choose Mondragon over Huawei?

[@morningstararun6278]

​​@@RidiculoidusActually I am trying to figure that out myself. Why doesn't Mr Wolff never mention Huawei as an example? Some people from the US, whom I consider Marxist Leninists have actually talked about Huawei. Mr Wolff visited Mondragon many times as he said so himself. But he never once visited Huawei main branch. So is that it? But why is he hesitating to visit China(since he is in his golden years, it could be like a tour) and learn about Huawei more by talking directly to the workers there? Because mentioning a company from China, which he considers to be a state Capitalist would make the points he is trying to make, look bad? But then again, how come is it okay to constantly mention a worker co-op from a country that is fully Capitalist? Spain is ok, but China isn't?

[@austinmackell9286]

Let's argue for an hour without defining our terms. This will be productive.

[@MarkZuckerberg-cu6dk]

That has always been Wolfe’s playbook. He has a very harsh critique of capitalism while sidestepping any Marxist criticism because nothing technically fits a definition he deems satisfactory. It’s like saying “women have babies” And then spending a nauseating time discussing what a woman is. He knows. You know. I know. We don’t need to have this circle jerk of a conversation.

[@WoJackMan]

Clearly Laffer doesn't know what socialism is, because he called George Bush a socialist

[@ericmacrae6871]

​@@MarkZuckerberg-cu6dkthis is false because he has defined his terms over and over again and again and again

[@ExPwner]

@@ericmacrae6871 he defines them wrong and switches back and forth to motte and bailey. The other person is correct and you’re again lying

[@karleells6540]

@@austinmackell9286 who cares. Wolff is an idiot