8 Electrical Tips For Model Railroaders (313)

[@ricter591]

Thanks Larry, Great Info.

[@scentgrasslakerailway]

Great tips, recording (writing down and/or photographing) what one has done is so important!

[@peterpocock9062]

The copper and silver wires you use for your dcc bus wires is known here in Australia as Speaker Wire. I can highly recommend its use. Also, your eight points for wiring is spot on. Thankyou Larry.

[@jimfisher7324]

Be cautious with speaker wire. The speaker wire that Larry uses is true copper wire. At least in the US much of the speaker wire is actually copper coated aluminum wire. A 14 gauge copper coated aluminum wire has the same resistance as 16 gauge copper wire and is harder to solder.

[@peterpocock9062]

@@jimfisher7324 Thankyou for your comment. Yes we are aware of the possible metal mix up. I should have said our wire was copper, the silver one being tinned copper. On a side note, I would have soon twigged on if it was aluminium when I "tried" to soldered it/them 😊

[@dwaineruthannarmentrout1811]

Your book is fantastic. I'm glad you highlighted the difference between the earth ground and the floating ground as I didn't understand the difference previously. I so appreciate you adding in the comments where to purchase products and the part numbers, etc. you mention in your videos. This is a tremendous help.

[@felipesanchezcuriel]

Great book, I already have it on my shelf. Have learner a lot from it.

[@johnpetru4133]

Thanks, Larry. Very informative!

[@peterjhillier7659]

Thanks Larry, great Tips, excellent advice. Keep safe

[@jessemcconnell5163]

Very helpful thank you

[@thomascanady1967]

I agree when you said to write everything down. I use to belong to a model train club years ago and when I started one member was doing the wiring. When ask to help, he said he got it and no one should mess with it. When he left the club he didn't write anything down so we had to figure what he did. What a pain. So I have been writing in a binder for my layouts over the years for what I did and what I abbreviated. Starting a new N scale layout soon. So now I need to find where I put that binder!🙄🤔

[@spacecalander]

Always so great to see your videos', they have helped me so much! Thanks!!

[@joedelusso1415]

It's a great book Larry, I have it in my how-to's library,the book really helped ( and still does) me dispell the mysteries of DC/DCC when I transversed from DC to DCC back in 2019 and I highly recommend your book to other modelers looking for guidance with wiring issues..👍

[@thomasgrassi8817]

Larry Great video I even use Cable labels on my bus lines I have 18 DCC bus lines so I needed a way to identify them these labels are like a zip tie and then I use my label gun to mark them but you are correct you must document your wiring everything under my layout has a label which helps me.

[@edwardwerick2420]

I was particularly interested in the step-down power supply converter system as I have developed a low-cost DIY under track switch machine powered by a 3 volt DC motor. These motors can be purchased in bulk at a very low cost and they can be mounted to the underside of the switch ties and connected directly to the switch throw bar making a very low cost, compact switch machine which can be installed in a matter of minutes. A sticking point of my scheme is a power supply. I had considered battery packs as the power required by these motors is so low that even a AAA battery will last for years. I have beta tested these machines on fellow modelers layouts so this is not a guess. Another advantage of my design is that it can be used to operate line side equipment such as a semaphore by having a center off position and selecting "stop" or "proceed" by changing the polarity of the voltage to the motor. This would require providing power for an extended period of time rather than intermittently as in a switch application. Using a power buss would make this feasible. BTW at 3V a DC motor can be left powered up indefinitely without danger of overheating. I tested this as well by leaving a motor powered at full stall overnight and checking its temperature the following day. Do you happen to know if a stationary decoder could be connected to a 3V power buss and used to control devices operating at 3V? I would love to control switch arrays (yard ladder) powered by my 3V motors with my hand held throttle.

[@MRR_Shadowolf]

Great video and learned a lot from your videos and books!

[@charleymartin9422]

Hi Larry, ordered your book as it wasn't in stock a few weeks back. 👍

[@Conn653]

I have this book and it is quite good! 🙂

[@stevenchambers6174]

Thanks Larry😎

[@jhoodfysh]

Larry, thank you very much for this excellent information, it was very useful to me.

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing.👍

[@JOHNBLIZMAN]

Great video Larry. It's always good to have a collection of techniques summarized and I appreciate the years of experience. Grounding of DC systems, was interesting, and I totally agree with the concept of keeping the hobby electronics separated earth wise from the safety ground from the utility. In fact, in my industry it is standard practice for all control systems and instrumentation to have what is known as an isolated ground. A separate ground rod or grid from the main power earth. I do not earth ground the DC, or DCC components but as you stated they are connected (Digitrax), as well as the (-) leg of the DC power supply. Also, getting the wiring sorted in advance is also great advice. Since I plan on automating my layout, the correct addition of proximity sensors around the layout for stopping etc. would be difficult to do later. JMRI is helping to organize what I want to automate, and therefore helping to locate sensors where I need them in addition to current sensing block detection.

[@genejablonski9909]

Great video ... thanks.

[@ActionJackson603]

i love wiring! my dad too but he is color bind so i have to helP!!!!! taught me sooo much though! i can wire all my own stuff have been since i waw s5

[@chrisbarr1359]

Very, very helpful video

[@jmcguire56]

This was great!

[@markwakeley3835]

Another informative video. Thanks Larry. I've referred to your book on MANY occasions. Starting my 3rd layout. This time very small but a lot of these principles still apply. I will definitely power the frogs (with Caboose manual ground throws) and I'm very interested in a 3v to 4.5v buss for LEDS. Later.

[@jimfisher7324]

A note on Digitrax "grounds". As you point out they are not true grounds. " The "grounds" in the loconet cable are connected to the ground terminal on the power plug. If you don't run a wire between the power plugs, there is a chance that a high current from a fault could be directed through the 24 or so gauge of the "grounds" in the loconet cable.

[@BsrlinMAZ]

Regarding the "floating ground': you mention that DCC equipment such as those from NCE should have ground from each piece of equipment connected together. Could that same ground be run outside to a copper rod driven into the ground (earth ground), or do the floating and earth ground have to be kept separate? My electrical knowledge is barely past the ability to change a light-bulb, ha-ha, (it's actually not at all funny due to the potential to ruin over-priced model RR equipment). I've ordered and received from Kalmbach Hobbystore in WI two of your books (Wiring Your Model Railroad and Wiring Projects for Your Model Railroad) and have begun studying them as I prepare to build my first ever model railroad layout (n-scale, 5'x14'). Thank you for all the videos you have made, sharing your knowledge, advice and tips for this model railroad hobby; I've been watching hours and hours over the past few weeks. EDIT: Your channel seems to focus primarily on DCC -- can you point me to a source for DC model railroad knowledge, as I am not willing to pay the outrageous over-inflated prices being charged for DCC equipment? Thank you for your time and assistance.

[@TheDCCGuy]

NCE recommends against doing the true earth ground, just the floating ground.

[@willparsons32]

Ive been considering getting back into the hobby but aside from the space, i am stuck on setting up the switches and the target lights adjoining them. Especially in a yard

[@TheDCCGuy]

Watch video #246

[@willparsons32]

@@TheDCCGuy found the video... Definitely watch it later... Thanks for the direction!

[@68Jaguar420G]

As you were talking about the 12Vdc bus I was thinking about the 3Vdc for LEDs. I've used them to avoid the hassle of dropping resistors, especially when a large number of LEDs are in a single building and push the resistors to their 1/4 or 1/2 watt power rating and get quite hot. There are also an increasing number of accessories using 4.5 Vdc, so if you end up with a significant number of those another dedicated bus is justified.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, add whatever makes it easier in the long run. I love those little buck boards which allow me to customize a local sub bus for whatever purpose is required.

[@68Jaguar420G]

@Model Railroading I use buck converters as well, notably for the 4.5Vdc needed for Miller Engineering animated signs. I don't have enough to justify a full bus but as things develop it might become a requirement. I also find it worth paying the extra dollar or two to get the ones with the digital voltage readout.

[@randydobson1863]

hello larry its is randy and i like yours video is cool thanks friends randy

[@geoffreybslater1146]

Going to buy the book for sure. Is there any way I can speak with you over the phone, or via email?

[@johnwinter6061]

I'm confused. My retailer sold me very thin wire for Viessmann DCC and confirmed DCC needed thinner wire than DC! I'm from the old school of DC with 'speaker' wire. Not today's but yesteryear stuff, much like you showed. Regardless, I will use Australian household lighting wire (minimum 10 amp) 1.5mm for my bus lines. Thicker than old 'speaker' wire. In sections / blocks of course. From the ends of each section bus, about 5 - 6 meters back to the controller. I'll also be wiring so I can use DC, DCC or anything else. I've designed a socket and plug arrangement which will allow that WITHOUT the traditional risks. Eg it will be impossible to to back DC into opposite pole DC or DCC. Tip - Do NOT power point motors from track power. Use an accessory power supply. Many reasons, including costs.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I and everyone else I know follows the advice of the bigger the better. Basically smaller wire increases resistance and can reduce voltage. I’ve always suggested using 16-18 ga for N, 14 ga for HO/S/OO, and 12 ga for larger scales on the main power bus and 20-22 ga for track feeders.

[@johnwinter6061]

@@TheDCCGuy Could not agree more for DC. DCC is the issue. Funnily because I'll be wiring up for both, I've gone for 1.5mm bus max 5 metres. (Distance also affects loss of power.)

[@ronduz1281]

👍👍👍Great video

[@jimsmoter4510]

Great advice. But you left us hanging. what was the electrical problem with that layout?

[@TheDCCGuy]

The worst one was it was just one long power bus over 100’ long and not a single circuit breaker anywhere! We still haven’t figured out how the signal system worked. Plus the throttle network did not have sufficient power and there were too few wireless receivers. I found some feeders that must have been 10’ long, doubled back on themselves, and used tiny wires. The surprising thing was the fellow who did the wiring was a retired electronics tech on nuclear subs!

[@markwakeley3835]

Okay, the electronic tech from the Navy explains a lot. Their motto "There's never enough time to do it right the first time but there's always time to do it over again".😂

[@stevenchambers6174]

Hi Larry thanks for your reply what i want to know is if it is relevent to the upgraded equipment or is there another book in that covers the modern stuff Cheers Steve😎

[@TheDCCGuy]

At this time I don’t know of any. You likely won’t find books with detailed info on specific equipment since manufacturers upgrade often enough that the book would be out of date quickly and publishers try to avoid that. Most detailed info is published in magazine review articles or in DCC columns.

[@karolkoepp5741]

Is this a hardback book? Great video! Thank you.

[@TheDCCGuy]

No they mainly do paperbacks and digital versions.

[@karolkoepp5741]

@@TheDCCGuy Thanks. Merry Christmas.

[@derekalexander4030]

Thank you Larry for the great tips, as usual. In a DCC layout, we all know that you should limit 14 gauge wire to 30 feet but is it just the command station or the bus wires? For example, if you have a linear 120 foot layout and the bus is broken into 4-30 foot sections, a, b, c, and d and you put the command station at the junction of b and c, do you need another command station or if you have boosters for a and d and the bus divided is that sufficient or would you suggest a different location for the command station and boosters? This would be for Digitrax duplex radio.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Each individual run would be 30’ so you’re OK. However if you create a “Y” in your wires then you would add the initial run plus the extended run for each ”Y” section. If for example you ran 10’ then had 2 20’ runs from the “Y”, then each would be 30’.

[@stevenchambers6174]

Hi Larry I noticed in the wiring book you are promoting that it has older system equipment I was wondering if there is an updated version showing the new components especially Digitrax but of course the others as well? Cheers Steve

[@TheDCCGuy]

The book was mostly written in late 2014, early 2015 just before Digitrax began their upgrades. The book focuses mainly on wiring and provides introductory material on DCC equipment.

[@chadportenga7858]

You mentioned using zip cord for your bus wires, but with HO running DCC and creeping up on the 30-40 foot length of runs, would lamp cord be adequate? I have not found any that is larger than 18 gauge wire. EDIT: I just found it - it's low voltage outdoor landscaping wiring. Available in 12/2 wire.

[@TheDCCGuy]

As I said in the video I use 14ga zip cord and it is available in 10 & 12 ga as well. I got mine from www.parts-express.com/wire-cables/bulk-wire-bulk-cable/hi-fi-speaker-wire just make sure to get the OFC (oxygen free copper) and not the CCA (copper clad aluminum).

[@casparweeda1645]

Thanks for the awesome tips. Q: Is oversize of wires an issue (e.g. need 16 though use 12)?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Only the added cost.

[@robertstowasser694]

Hi Larry. Does your book go into how to wire for Blunami type layout systems?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Blunami can work on DC, DCC, or battery power. So DC and DCC track wiring is covered in the book and battery power requires no track power.

[@philbarclay1775]

More of a question. Can you wire more than 1 pm74 (used for short circuits) on a single booster

[@TheDCCGuy]

It appears so. Looking at page 6 of the manual it shows how to interrogate the status of multiple PM74’s.

[@philbarclay1775]

@@TheDCCGuy thanks I thought so. Didn't want to blow anything up

[@sparky107107]

be really cool if you came to the you tube meet and greet. May 19-21. Greely Colorado . this event is open to everyone

[@bassnbud2000]

Mr Puckett, I’m new to model trains and I installed a Walther switch machine to my layout, and I don’t know how to power my frog using the machine. I’m using DCC power to my rails and DC for the switch machine. Hoping you can help me with this. Thanks for all of the help. B L

[@TheDCCGuy]

OK, I have a couple of these but have never gotten around to installing these so this is based on a quick look and not actual installation experience. Although I cannot find any mention of how they expect you to power your frogs I did note that there are 2 SPDT switches mounted on either side of the servo motor. These are marked NO, NC, and C meaning normally open, normally closed, and common. When I fired mine up I could not measure any voltage on these contacts so I assume they are provided for powering the frogs just as you would use one of the SPDT switches on a Tortoise. Basically connect the frog feeder wire to the C and a wire from the rail A and rail B DCC power bus wires to the NC and NO contacts on one of the SPDT switches. Now whenever you activate the switch machine it will make the connection to your frog. If you were lucky and got the polarity correct then when you run a loco through the turnout it will not create a short. If you got it backwards it will short and you can just swap the wires to the NC and NO contacts. If you can wait a day I will confirm this with my contact at Walthers.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Sorry but the technical expert on this device is out of the office until next week and the regular staff was clueless. So hopefully I’ll get a call back from him Monday or Tuesday with a definitive answer.

[@bassnbud2000]

Thank you , I tried to contact Walthers also but never got a reply. I will test this out today, do I have to power the switch with DCC power ?? Thanks for your help. B L.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I really wish you would wait until we can get a confirmation on this from Dan at Walthers on Tuesday or Wednesday when he gets back to the office. I am really just guessing on the purpose of the SPDT switch and would hate to see you burn up the switch machine.

[@bassnbud2000]

@@TheDCCGuy OK, i have a lot of other things I can be working on, thanks again for your help. BL

[@TJRohyans]

I'm working on a small HO layout not much bigger than a "TimeSaver", with only about 7' total length, but with 8 #5 Peco Electrofrog turnouts. From my understanding of what you're saying, I only need 1 set of track feeders for the entire layout? But I'm also surmising that because I've done the modifications to the turnouts per your suggestions, I'll need track feeders on every turnout. Is that correct?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yards and ladders do require extra feeders because the turnouts do break up the electrical pathway. However in many cases the stock rails make one long rail once the rail joiners are soldered on which means only one feeder would be needed on a section like that.

[@wjcorrinne4052]

Hi Larry, Good video, I need to get your book out of wherever I stored it. I’ve put off starting my layout because we weren’t sure if we were going to remodel our house or build new and I didn’t want to be moving the modular units I plan to use. I’ll probably watch this a couple more times before I begin as building is going to take 6-8 months, if we’re lucky? I’ll be reviewing many of your videos when I begin. I do have one question, can a DCC layout be setup and run from a tablet? My newest has more storage than my old one. My last computer experience was Fortran with IBM 1400 back in college and the one that was running the paper co. in Wis. Rapids was a big IBM 360. So it’s been a while. I don’t want to move the modules more than once! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[@lgrfbs]

Yes, this is possible with a central unit that supports Wi-Fi.

[@dougbuchanan9434]

I am using my samsung tablet w/ engine driver throttle. works great. Nice big screen. great for running a couple of engines at the same time. Big buttons are great.

[@steveashcraft718]

Be careful with speaker wire. Make sure the wire you purchase is copper. Some of the companies that make it have used aluminum wire instead of the tin plated copper. I'm sure Larry is aware of this.

[@johnwinter6061]

Agree. Care too whether the old thick stuff (Ok for eg 8' x 4' DC layout) or the modern thin stuff (no good) Clear cover allows you to check copper or other. Some use one of each.

[@mike1776GSD]

Do you connect the 14 gauge bus wire directly to a DC transformer to power the track?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Typically short but smaller diameter feeder wires carry the current from the main bus wires to the rails.

[@mike1776GSD]

@@TheDCCGuy Larry, Thanks for the reply. I see lots of vids about feeder wires connected to the bus to power the rail. What I do not see is what is the bus wire connected to to get its power to send power to the feeders and up to the rails. Does the 14 gauge bus wire get its power from being directly connected to the dc transformer. Sorry if I seem dense about this. I'm knew to all this.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, just like i your house as soon as it is connected to the DC power supply it can power the rails and trains.

[@mike1776GSD]

Thanks, Larry. One more question. I'm wanting to find an electrical connector to go between the transformer and bus wire that I can mount on my train table so that I can disconnect the transformer, move to the far side of the layout and reconnect transformer to other end of the bus. Any suggestions?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Check out Wago and Anderson Power Pole connectors.

[@jrisner1951]

Does anyone manufacture power buses to supply extra track power? Thanks.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Not sure what you mean. Do you mean higher voltage or amperage or something else?

[@jrisner1951]

@@TheDCCGuy voltage for DCC

[@TheDCCGuy]

Some systems such as Digitrax have scale switches that allow you to change the voltage provided to the track bus. Some allow you to adjust them using a screw setting. Others simply pass through the voltage of the input, so you can select the voltage that way.

[@robertcornelius3514]

13:27 What the heck are BODs?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Block Occupancy Detectors

[@cjs6070]

Rather than a 3 volt secondary bus I believe a 5 volt bus can be the better option. My layout has several distributed Arduino (some of the Nano type) computers that through time based control processing provides a variety of city and industrial lighting effects and crossing gate operations. Although there are 3 volt Arduino powered computers there are more 5 volt powered supporting devices and peripherals then there are of the 3 volt type. I also like to maintain compatibility with USB’s 5 volts because of its universal device connectability.

[@cjs6070]

There are a couple of points I want to add to my previous comment. A 5 volt power supply will facilitate PWM operations with servos as I had done with crossing gate control. The second is that I use I2C communications throughout and this is noteworthy since I2C requires a 3 volt supply. However the supply issue is negated with the use of I2C multiplexers which one would use when there are many I2C devices to connect. The muxs are 5 volt devices. On my railroad I use Adafruit VCNL4040 proximity detectors for train detection. These are small inexpensive I2C detectors. A mux is necessary in any event since the VCNL4040 has a single locked in I2C address. My N scale city's evening lights go on in groups and brighten gradually as the "pretend" sun goes down. The effects are handled through a single Nano and I2C with PWM LED lighting controlled by a SparkFun LP55231. This is a single 3-5 volt mux that performs the grouping and brightening and provides additional current draw capability (ex: one mux controlling 19 LEDs). I can expand on the lighting implementation if anyone is interested. And I also use Miller Engineering signs on my railroad also controlled using the 5 volt supply. A Miller sign is 100 volt A.C.powered and draws about 125 ma from its power source. Controlling it directly with a computer is out of the question. Also the step-up oscillator won't operate from a 5 volt source. The solution is to place two silicon diodes in series with the 5 volt supply and to power the sign using a computer connected 5 volt DIP relay.

[@goodtimecoalhauling4726]

All due respect, Larry suitcase connectors are the absolute worst way to attach wires. Go ahead and soder connections, then cover with shrink tubing. It falls under just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. 3m makes them to sell not because they are better than doing it right ,but because it is easier.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Been using them for over 20 years and no problems when you use the correct connector and install them correctly.

[@goodtimecoalhauling4726]

@Model Railroading I guess I don't like open places in the wire where moisture can get in. Plus, I build and teach using the one module approach, where you can get to the wiring so it can be properly configured. Thanks for the reply, Larry.