Control Frog And Track Polarity Without Shorts (282)

Some of the most popular methods for controlling frog and reverse loop polarity depend on the shorts created when loco wheels cross a gap that creates a short circuit. In this video I'll show you how you can handle both jobs without creating a short. So let's get at it.
But first some parts information
Relay Panasonic DS2Y-S-DC12V
If unavailable then any small DPDT relay of the desired rating and voltage will do. Possible sources include:
AllElectronics.com
Jameco.com
Digikey.com
Mouser.com
Clip leads HDTL-5 AllElectronics.com
Relay RLY-622 AllElectronics.com
T97 Automobile tail light bulb or any bulb 12VDC 1 amp or less available at auto parts stores
Chapters
0:00 Introduction
1:24 Switch machine internals
5:18 Tortoise issues
7:34 Wiring switch machines to control relays
8:46 How relays work with reverse loops
10:00 Relay internals
12:37 Wiring a relay
16:18 iP Digitals for frog polarity and relays
18:27 Testing polarity
21:27 Wrapup

[@stevenpotter3812]

Excellent Larry even a Electrical Numpty like me understood what you were telling us , Great work keep it going .uk

[@andrewstevenson5449]

Very clear and informative. My particular take-away from the video is the polarity tester that you finish with. So simple!

[@peterjhillier7659]

Enjoying catching up with your great Videos thanks Larry keep safe.

[@fredashay]

Fantastic video, Larry! :-)

[@michaelloveless5991]

Thank you Larry. Great

[@theenigmaticgamer]

Thanks for a very informative video. I have been having trouble with one of my Cobalt IP motors and will give your tip a try.

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing.👍👀

[@MrAsBBB]

Great video Larry. We’re you an electrical engineer? I bet you were. Or an Engineer as you instinctively know what you are doing. Also your videos flow perfectly. Your videos should be required viewing for school children for electronics. Switches and wiring are a great way of getting children to think about logic. Will the bulb light?? All the best from the UK. It’s cold and dark here.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Nope, my PhD is in biology, I’ve just been doing this stuff for years.

[@keithmcgrath1228]

Interesting video, should you also mentioned whether you should be using an AC or DC relay? DC for a DC powered track and AC for a DCC powered track. I’ve used a DC relay on my DCC powered track, but I’ve had to insert a Half wave rectifier so that it works.

[@rjl110919581]

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THE VIDEO

[@thomasgrassi8817]

Larry Now I the tortoise machine can act as a DPST relay but not recommended. So, I am looking at this device from Azatrax MRAPR handle my reverse loop. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[@kennedygauger4680]

Great video. I had not seen connection of a relay using the second set of SPST contacts. Very interesting. Also, was not familiar with the insertion of a diode on the relay. Will failure to do that “blow” the relay? Thanks!

[@TheDCCGuy]

When using a relay, your relay circuit should include a diode in parallel with the relay coil. A relay with diode configuration provides transient voltage suppression when the relay is activated, which keeps the surge of current in the relay from burning out the switching circuitry.

[@brandongaines1731]

I was surprised to see Amtrak making an appearance on the upper deck there, Mr. Puckett! Has that train been in that scene from the start (and did I just miss it?) or did you recently re-film your appeal for subscribers?

[@TheDCCGuy]

It’s been there for years it seems. I did an article on programming a decoder for use with it several years ago and it occasionally makes trips around the layout for grins. The F40PH and F59PH are my favorite modern passenger locos.

[@frankwyatt8372]

My tortoise switch machines after time begin to “click”. I assume that means that is something internal that is moving back and forth. How do I fix this a THANK YOU Frank

[@TheDCCGuy]

Watch video #69

[@johnbusby5614]

One of the gear teeth is worn down and that causes the clicking. The correct fix is to replace the Tortoise. The cheap fix is to lower the voltage to the Tortoise down to around 8VDC or so. That will put less pressure on the gear train.

[@thomasgrassi8817]

Larry Spoke with NCE support the NCE AR10 has a circuit breaker built in. You need to put the Reverse loop section of track on a separate bus line The AR10 cannot have another circuit breaker in front of and behind in the line. With that said then wouldn't a NCE AR10 be safe to use? I did test this and when I shorted out the reverse loop side the track went dead until I removed the short. Your thoughts Thanks

[@TheDCCGuy]

Tom, I have never used the AR10 but in reading the instructions it appears to work like most autoreversers. When a loco wheels hit the rail gaps entering the loop it will create a momentary short and the AR10 quickly reverses polarity clearing the short. My issue is with the momentary short required to activate the autoreverser. A short is a short and can cause the sort of issues I talked about in recent videos. That is why I did this video on how to control track polarity without the need to create a short. I know some/many will argue what is one little short going to do? Well I prefer to have no shorts but that is my opinion.

[@eXtremeFX2010]

For my rail yard I use manual Turnouts and Tam Valley Dual Frog and Frog Juicers with my Peco Turnouts....it works ok... but would like a similar setup for testing. Is that possible?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Not sure what you mean? What will you be testing?

[@dkaustin98]

Larry, Perhaps you can answer a question a for me. I was a crypto electronics tech retired from the Coast Guard may years ago. Before I wire in the power district to the PM42 I will verify that I do not have shorts with a Fluke Multi-meter. However, once I wire into the PM42 my meter is showing a short. The PM42 doesn't display a short or click trying to reset. I know it detects shorts when I lay a tool across the tracks. The trains are running fine. I have pulled the wide connector off the DCS. It is still there. Why is my multi-meter detecting a short that the Digitrx equipment doesn't see.? Is it something about the PM42? It just bugs me.

[@TheDCCGuy]

It is likely that the units internal wiring represents a load that the meter is seeing as a short. I have a couple of those but prefer the faster acting protection of the PSXX units.

[@robacdm]

Sorry to be so late but just found your channel and I have a question: is there any reason that for a tortoise or smail switch machine contacts 1 and 2 and 3 and 8 can’t be tied together? I do not have a separate accessory bus and the turnouts are going to be driven by track power DCC. Currently my tortoises are driven by Jack Wabbits but the next section is going to have smails so I will skip the Jack Wabbits. Thank you!

[@TheDCCGuy]

Well since 1&8 are used to power the motor in the Tortoise, tying them together will result in a dead short. What are you trying to do?

[@robacdm]

@@TheDCCGuy next section of layout is starting. I’m going to use smails and peco electro frogs in a couple of spots so I need to power the frogs. Never done this before but I watched your videos and figured I’d try the switches in the smails. Im confused on where the power to pins 2 and 3 comes from. It’s gotta be track power to send to the frog via pin 4 but aren’t pins 1 and 8 also track power for dcc?

[@robacdm]

@@TheDCCGuyalso- I meant tie 1 to 2 and also tie 3 to 8 but keep those 2 sets separate of course.

[@strobelightaudio]

will the light bulb test work on DCC? I wouldn't think so but might if there's a diode wired in.

[@TheDCCGuy]

It was working on DCC in the video. Light bulbs don’t care which way the electrons are moving-try it.

[@strobelightaudio]

@@TheDCCGuy doh!

[@scottsmith7051]

I am brand new, that is brand brand new to all this. So this is greek to me. Is your book very very basic? Like what is a frog, how does an engine complete a circuit etc. And how do I get your book?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Look for it on Amazon or Kalmbach Books on their website kalmbachhobbystore.com/product/book/12491

[@scottsmith7051]

@@pras12100 Thank You Patrick!