I appreciate you using the retail version instead of the kickstarter version.
@borisguy19862 жыл бұрын
? It’s the same. You can buy standard edition, deluxe edition or the deluxe complements. I’m gonna assume you probably meant just the standard edition.
@Michaelrsted2 жыл бұрын
A simple street lamp to illuminate the stops in the track. I’d say would be a perfect solution. It would make the stops pop and won’t interfere with the esthetics and theme.
@AP-nz8qv2 жыл бұрын
13:45 - Tom’s gears start turning about The Magnetic Meeple podcast!
@beornthebear90232 жыл бұрын
Man every time I watch a four square I’m reminded why I love you guys so much. Love the various opinions I’m excited to try this one out. Guessing I’ll probably land with team Wendy on this one.
@pooyaostadpour52982 жыл бұрын
Wendy is one of the nicest addition to the Dice Tower. I like the way she analyzes games and the way she interacts with others' opinions about a certain matter.
@ESCTom2 жыл бұрын
It’s so funny how many of the faults that you all listed are absolutely correct, but I didn’t really consciously notice them while I was originally playing. I put that down to being totally distracted and subconsciously biased by how gorgeous the deluxe KS production is. But yea, all the faults that were mentioned are totally fair and true and on reflection, the actual gameplay pales in comparison to the production.
@Andrew.Griffin2 жыл бұрын
Great video, with a diverse set of opinions. I feel like there’s more and more of these collections of mini games and mechanics in games that end leaning more towards chaos, and at best, tactical play, than true strategy. But... that’s just my opinion. 🙃😉
@JeremyDobler2 жыл бұрын
I'm absolutely obsessed with this game. Got a chance to play it 3 times at a local Board Game convention a couple weeks ago. I'd already pre-ordered a full big boy copy of it, and I'm not impatiently awaiting my copy. It's actually slowly taking my top spot from Ark Nova.
@Jy3pr6 Жыл бұрын
Hi Jeremy, Do you still feel this way about this game? Thanks, Jonathan
@JeremyDobler Жыл бұрын
@@Jy3pr6 I do, I can pick it up and play any time, and while right now Cult of the New has me with all the fall releases, and cleaning up my shelf of shame, the desire to play MotDR has been creeping on
@Jy3pr6 Жыл бұрын
@@JeremyDobler Interesting. I found a few good deals on BGG MP. Hopefully I can seal a deal soon. But would you really say it’s taken your top spot from Ark Nova??
@paulsalomon272 жыл бұрын
I expect to see some replacement boards for modular expansions that will change things. Hence the puzzle pieces.
@Brezel852 жыл бұрын
This could really be a thing. Just change the left part with the rondel an boom, you got a new location to travel. Good Idea.
@sethwinslow2 жыл бұрын
RE: the puzzle-piece board. My understanding is that this style was chosen to make it easier to integrate expansions in a modular way. I could be wrong, though.
@TheLimestoneCowboy2 жыл бұрын
This is what Tidal Blades needed
@AzureRaiden2 жыл бұрын
I'm surprised to not see Zee Garcia in this review. I thought this was one of his most anticipated games of the last year. Would be interesting if he did his own short review or something on this to share his opinions or thoughts.
@anthonykuhn379211 ай бұрын
It's frustrating to hear them complain about the theme actively working against it when all their examples are just wrong. Why would an instrument be worth more than a magical potion just because it's bigger? And they just completely misunderstand the 2 roads. It isn't that one road is light and the other is dark. It's that one road is well traveled and we'll known so you don't need to spend lanterns to traverse it since you know where you're going and the other is a shortcut so you need lanterns to see where you are going and you are less prepared for the things you might come upon.
@jmkaji2 жыл бұрын
Ouch! I had high spectations about this one... Who I am kidding, this is exactly what I expected. I backed it because of the gorgeous deluxe components. Well at least it sounds great for solo and as a 2 player game. Most of my plays are with my "wife". Thanks for the review, amazing job as always!
@jhowd782 жыл бұрын
It's great for solo play
@user-js7ht4kz2x2 жыл бұрын
I highly appreciate you using the retail version, that we might actually buy after watching your review! Thanks for the nice video! :)
@TheDavidorse1232 жыл бұрын
I talked to one of the designers at pax about the puzzle board and they did that for expansion to so they can change parts of the board and swap pieces for expansions
@12345678abracadabra2 жыл бұрын
I hate that today people make games and cut things out for expansions. They should wait for feedback, let that feedback inform your expansion and see if the game actually sells before designing more stuff.
@ElfCreekGames2 жыл бұрын
@@12345678abracadabra Funny. That's exactly what we'll be doing. That doesn't mean we can't also hope and plan to change the way sections work on the board.
@rogerst-arneault35222 жыл бұрын
Also, it was very interesting to see someone defending a games against other's opinions. Very entertaining "trial". Great job Mike!
@1Dreamking9 ай бұрын
Ordered it yesterday. (Retail version) I hope I will like it like Mike. 😅
@sasaradojcic85052 жыл бұрын
I watched this video after hearing Tom talk about the ratings they gave the game in the Q&A, without specifying who gave what, and while it annoyed me to have heard them in advance, it turned out to be an interesting deduction game figuring out who they belonged to :D. As usual, love this format and the different perspectives it provides.
@raggededge682 жыл бұрын
After watching this review, I was worried about how I would like the game when my Kickstarter copy arrived. Now that I've played it a couple of times, I think Tom was having a bad day when he played this one or maybe just went into it with the wrong expectations! I don't understand the feeling that the theme doesn't connect--the theme seems great to me. You are a merchant, building and collecting items in town, selling them to passersby, and delivering them to outlying towns. Tom had a complaint about putting the goods into the wagon. It seems like he was anticipating that this was a polyomino mechanic and it really isn't. The whole point is just to limit how many things you are carrying. They could have just put numerical values on everything and said you can't go over a total value of 30. But who wants to be trying to do that math all the time. It's so much easier to do it visually with blocks that are two to eight squares each. And it's a thematic tie--you can't carry more in your wagon than you have space for. I often find it funny watching these reviews because if a game is simple, the critique is always, "I wish there was a little more--hopefully they make an expansion." But when a game with lots of moving parts comes out, the response is, "They could have streamlined this just a bit more--it seems like they just threw a few too many mechanics in it." I have to side with Mike on this one. I love the game, it's definitely staying in my collection, and it was totally worth the investment! Even my wife, who is not a fan of overly complex games, enjoyed this one.
@botousai2 жыл бұрын
Thanks man! My copy gets here next week and I was worried after watching the video lol.
@CresentSoul2 жыл бұрын
You did way too many straw men in this essay
@nihlify2 жыл бұрын
I'd take his opinion over a backer lol.
@justins.48392 жыл бұрын
The inventory and items feels like diablo ii and its really nostalgic feeling for me.
@guillermoz49142 жыл бұрын
@@nihlify 💯
@pooyaostadpour52982 жыл бұрын
I absolutely adore this game, yet I agree with all you said. But just as Mike said, they don't keep me from enjoying the game. Different sized loots with an always changing price is thematic and fun to me; sometimes you have to shoulder the burden of having a large item, because that's the demand, and maybe the price is not high for it to sell at that time. At the same time, you can enjoy having small items which are expensive and benefit from it. It's all about min-maxing your moves and doing the best you can with what you have. And one thing I was baffled no one mentioned was the positive interaction while going to travels. Everyone could be involved and I haven't seen so many occasions where players don't want to join a travel. You always keep something other players are planning on, so you can benefit from the moment.
@Phildiculous2 жыл бұрын
Out of curiosity, did you kickstart it?
@alcovitch2 жыл бұрын
@@Phildiculous what does that have to do with anything?
@muhabwahby2 жыл бұрын
You make some really good points Pooya. Got me back excited to receive the game now. And for all the right reasons i chose to back in the first place: Pick-up and deliver, interaction and bloody hell great theme. Cheers and thanks for reminding me of these essential qualities.
@pooyaostadpour52982 жыл бұрын
@@Phildiculous I didn't. I can't in the country I live. I will buy the Deluxe version when it's available in our stores. I played it on Tabletop Simulator.
@Bonzoso212 жыл бұрын
My deluxe copy arrives this week and I'm excited to dive in further. The game was previewed extensively during its crowdfunding period and was not really developed further or changed after the campaign, so those of us who backed it knew exactly what we were getting. Some of the hype undoubtedly comes from that Elf Creek bling, and I'm not sure this will be found on many "Best of 2022" lists because it does have a few things that are unintuitive and clunky, but I think it's a good hybrid game with some interesting mechanisms, it provides some fun table talk during caravan travels, and it sure looks great on the table.
@MerrillWhiteKalEl2 жыл бұрын
I thought the board design was to allow for future expansions that would change out pieces of the board.
@LegoAssassin0982 жыл бұрын
They have hinted at future expansions
@ralelunar2 жыл бұрын
Very Kickstarter-y
@TheBrokenMeeple2 жыл бұрын
Oh dear - I was hoping the theme would be really strong, but if that is a downside, it's going to hurt getting immersed and teaching the game. Bad graphic design isn't going to help either. This could be a short period of plays followed by a sale unless I discover a spark. I think I'm noticing this with Elf Creek - they look gorgeous, but I haven't got Atlantis Rising out for a while, I sold Honey Buzz. . . . . . . also 8 for this and 6 for Ark Nova Mike? :P
@jartree2 жыл бұрын
When Mike first joined TDT I felt like our tastes aligned really well, but we continue drifting apart..
@nickrichards57922 жыл бұрын
I think Mike gave Ark Nova an 8 tbf. At least he did in the four squares one. I don't know if there's a separate solo review or something.
@TheBrokenMeeple2 жыл бұрын
@@nickrichards5792 I could be mistaken.
@ryanbrown91022 жыл бұрын
@@nickrichards5792 Maybe this wil be the game that reunite you both together again ;)
@yrusomad62 жыл бұрын
@@jartree I feel like Mike's average rating for a game is an 8.5, so anything below that is a 6 for Tom for instance. Really hate the constant 8-10s on every game.
@whalesong8132 жыл бұрын
I agree with Tom's thoughts on this game! I've played it 4 times so far and I'm not really excited to reach for it. This is a terrific video, I really enjoy this format when reviewing games. Love the difference of opinions and the respect, as well as fun, shown to each other.
@Bodyknock2 жыл бұрын
I'd be curious to see Mike's solo review of this game. The complaints about it seem to revolve around rules and downtime but those sorts of issues are probably lessened in solo play where you can take things at the pace you want in terms of learning it and playing it out. If this game is a lot of fun solo I'm much more inclined to get it despite its issues in multiplayer.
@MeganDixon-vi8xe3 ай бұрын
Thanks for the great reviews. I really enjoy the discussion and diversity of opinions....Tom nails the issues every time and I'm with Mike in that I'm swept away with the art and could perhaps overlook its' messiness! Interestingly BGG has this at 7.4 so closest to Wendy's rating :). Viewing this 2 years after the reviews as this has come up on kickstarter and it looks gorgeous.....I wonder if they have solved some of these issues though, if so - I think I'd love it.
@daviblight2 жыл бұрын
was really glad to see this review come up. I was super excited to see a bosley and elf creek game on kickstarter, and the idea of the theme so cool... but digging into how the game was played I was really confused how things really all tied together and ultimately skipped it. It seems like I made a safe bet by passing too as it seems very divisive.
@meravl76152 жыл бұрын
16:02 They could have added a tent or something in the spaces. Like camp. That way it would have been both clear and thematic, just probably small to not overwhelm the board. Maybe?
@meravl76152 жыл бұрын
@@hkay3832 Personally, to me this sounds terrible. Now not only are the spaces unmarked they are crowded as well. I was trying to come from a practical standpoint rather than esthetic. This solution sounds purely esthetic.
@darinherrick92242 жыл бұрын
I agree that's there's some usability issues here, but man, production values are insane.
@atrope2 жыл бұрын
Another entertaining in-depth review. Love the 4 Squares!
@Andy_Quest2 жыл бұрын
Great review - I'm conflicted about this one. After hearing many trusted voices in the industry speak about how the theme just doesn't line up I think I'm already lamenting the lost of that tbh. I backed it mainly based off the great theme and it being a unique pick up and deliver with interesting mechanics. Unfortunately it looks just over-engineered - complex but not necessarily comprehensive.
@Sgrand802 жыл бұрын
I want to get it because the cover and name of the game intrigued me. I'll keep it in my list of future games to get for now. Great reviews!
@benjaminanselmo2052 жыл бұрын
I think the puzzle board is great idea if you want to make an expansion that doesn't have a tile that goes over the original board. You just change a part of the board for the one in an expansion. Do not know if this is the intention but smart system
@Brezel852 жыл бұрын
I too couldn't get my head around the theme of the dark and the lit road. Why should I pay three lanterns to choose last. But I will teach the theme like that: You can spend lanterns to make the journey more safe. So the possibility of other joining you is way higher. So you can roll more dice which leads to a higher chance of good outcomes. But you let others choose first an take two at the end. On the dark road it is less likely someone will join you (mechanically: because the got to choose after you; thematically: it is more dangerous to travel this path)
@raggededge682 жыл бұрын
After several plays, my wife and I have discovered that getting two bonuses on the lit road is worth taking any chance you can, especially late in the game, even if you have to choose last for the travel die bonus. Getting another illuminated die plus a deed or upgrade is extremely valuable, much more than is apparent at first glance, and usually well worth what you might be risking with the travel die. This complaint is understandable unless you've had a chance to play through a half-dozen games and start seeing the impacts.
@a1111night Жыл бұрын
After a year later on this one, I’m totally with Mike. I still feel slightly off with this one, but I actually really really like it. I would go a solid 8 on this one. I miss this group reviewing games.
@rogerst-arneault35222 жыл бұрын
I like Mike teaching games. Was he a teacher in another life?
@winstonhammonds33142 жыл бұрын
He was. As was Tom and Zee.
@hamawang2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the review. Have to see if the game is one that I'll like when it finally arrives. Probably some of the problems could be remedied with expansions if it's popular enough to warrant any.
@onepingonly19412 жыл бұрын
thanks for saving me from an impulse buy!
@stormquiver Жыл бұрын
played it yesterday after a friend brought it. first impression for me was, I bought it today. Deluxe, and everything that was currently in stock at my frequent online store. I'm just annoyed that I'm missing some things now. lol
@bryanweaver26082 жыл бұрын
I love the game. The changes in prices and whatbis available ibthink fits the theme. In the harsh winter you get what you can and the prices could always change.
@doubled78552 жыл бұрын
Tom gave Merchants Cove a 5 and Merchants of the Dark Road a 6. Chris Yi gave Merchants Cove a 6.5 and Merchants of the Dark Road a 6.5. Mike gives Merchants Cove an 8.5 and Merchants of the Dark Road an 8. The moral of this story-Mike is Right yet again!! Haha You know both of these games are 1) innovative or at least pushing innovation 2) are hybrids in that they are mixing/blending various mechanics together to do something creative 3) perhaps pushing beyond the standard euro model 4) doing innovative things that typical euro players (of which I am one) don’t like such as lessening the amount of control you have during the game forcing you to pivot when it comes to strategy. I think many confuse randomness with tactics. It’s not so much a point of randomness it is tactical-that is it’s there by design. On the surface, if you are a fan of any Stefan Feld game or any game that involves trading goods on the Mediterranean and yet think either of these Merchant games are boring-hmmm that just doesn’t add up to me. As far as the polyomino goods and wagon goes-someone already commented it’s not a polyomino game. Size of goods matter to limit what you can take. I could same the same of any Uwe game….why is the crown bigger than the Christmas tree in Feast? The game is good and beautiful for sure. Just my two cents.
@Alluvian5672 жыл бұрын
The reviews of tom and chris are what I thought of this game back when radho did a preview of it. It seemed like more mechanics than I wanted, and those mechanics didn't have a thematic reason for existing. I would probably be happy playing this game, but not one I want to buy and have in my collection.
@JodouTR2 жыл бұрын
Interesting. The theme was a major selling point for me, so to hear that it's a little too clunky means when my KS shows up this month it'll probably head to the Bay. :(
@drxsmetalhippie2 жыл бұрын
My thoughts as well.
@mariovelez61322 жыл бұрын
I would never sell a game based on a video review. Your point of view could be very different from them. Heck, see the scores, they are all different. I recommend to play it first.
@Sajatzsiraf2 жыл бұрын
Excellent save with the "us" Mr Yi
@Leiderg2 жыл бұрын
Well now I'm glad I didn't find this at Essen, I tend to agree a lot with Tom and Chris on games, so if they don't like it, there's a high chance I wouldn't either.
@holcaul2 жыл бұрын
Chris, what a voice!!!
@PestiferousJoe2 жыл бұрын
Very good review with lots of great points!
@searose61922 жыл бұрын
I love the cover of this game.
@tjayrevett73282 жыл бұрын
Wife and I bought this at PAX, crazy to hear them talk about some of the flaws we did not experience. We have not had any issues with figuring out anything on the board. Was one of the easier games we have picked up and learned recently. But respect all their opinions.
@Jason-ss9dy2 жыл бұрын
I am also surprised by the statements of complexity considering some of the games Chris and Wendy do like. I got to play about half a games worth at pax and thought it fairly straightforward. My game is due to arrive today so I guess I will see if my opinion changes after some full plays.
@raggededge682 жыл бұрын
I totally agree! I'm baffled by their responses. I had watched several playthroughs/reviews prior to KS and when it arrived, I taught it to my wife, who immediately beat me. She is not one who appreciates heavier, more complex games, but had no issue whatsoever in understanding what was going on at each location and how to move around with the dice.
@201990neilirving2 жыл бұрын
Awww I’m so gutted that there were so many negative aspects that you guys didn’t like. I played this last weekend after having bought it at the UKGE in birmingham and I really loved the dark theme and the items. I was frustrated that it doesn’t photograph well because of the dark theme but I really enjoyed the game. I think mostly because it’s one of the few pick up and deliver games we own. But thank you for your honest opinion. I love hearing it because that way I know if I’ll like a game before I buy it.
@iamtheoneyouknowbest2 жыл бұрын
I feel like the video is Mike defending Merchants of the Dark Road. :)
@JerreMuesli2 жыл бұрын
I feel like the video is just nitpicking about colours and minor design issues. :)
@leebrown13522 жыл бұрын
@@JerreMuesli it not being clear where the actual rondel is and mistaking completely different resources for one another in a contract fulfillment game is not a minor design flaw. That's very valid critism to me. But people have different tolerances for this type of thing. I think this is reflected in Tom's vs Chris' critisms. It probably wouldn't bother me. But I think this looks to have been designed to be an accssible medium weight game. "Gateway plus". It's not nessacerily fair. But I think unitituve design choices and usability issues are probably going to get more flack at this weight than in a heavier game where sometimes you expect some fiddlyness.
@leebrown13522 жыл бұрын
Not calling you out by the way. I agree in part. For instance, the size of the potions vs the lutes for the polyomino puzzle not being reflected in the value. That definitley came across as just a mismatch to expectations. The whole point might be to encourage loading as much on to your wagon as possible. Thematically and mechanically. Phrasing that as critism did seem a little unfair.
@cthulwho81972 жыл бұрын
An alternative view to everyone is just nitpicking is thatl Mike is very forgiving. 😁
@nipzie2 жыл бұрын
I think all the criticism makes total sense and it's really making me cautious about getting it. That said, I had those concerns initially as well but it's worse seeing them in the final copy
@JadeDLNKFRD8 ай бұрын
They all just complain about the game. Sounds like they want everything served to them in a silver platter. I wonder why don’t they just design their own version of the game? The struggle and quirks are what makes every board game fun.
@AndrewCCleverley2 жыл бұрын
I played this for the first time tonight, and given this review I wasn't particularly excited going in although I was going in with an open mind. We played four players - three new and it was a bit of a teach and ran quite long. That being said, I was actually rather surprised how much I enjoyed this! Yes, I agree with the graphic design/userbility issues brought up here. I misread some cards and found it a little disorientating at times, however, the puzzle of balancing your prestige and money and the big turns you can make really gave the game a buzz and despite a three-plus hour runtime, all four of us enjoyed the game and would happily play it again. A pleasant surprise.
@LegoAssassin0982 жыл бұрын
I do like this game, and it's definitely the heaviest by elf creek. I also believe that their other games were far more clean in their design, specifically Honey buzz and Atlantis rising. The negatives are valid. Most of them will go away after 2 or 3 plays, but that isn't an excuse. If you are planning on teaching this, I would strongly recommend playing solo with the automa a couple of times first since your first couple of plays will be a lot of flipping through the rulebook. I do think it's worth the effort, but I think future expansions (which Elf creek has teased that they have plans for) could really make the game sing. The decision making space is fun, you are interested in other players turns especially when traveling, it's unique and I enjoyed it.
@LegoAssassin0982 жыл бұрын
Also, while I applaud Elf creek for getting everything to be one box, yhe 2 part insert is a mixed bag. the bigger part of the insert is exceptionally confusing. The small portion is great though.
@ThaGamingMisfit2 жыл бұрын
My first impression is that this is a pick-up and delivery with convoluted steps in a pretty box... and I'll pass for that, we have enough of these already. I rather go back to the less fluff era with smoother mechanics then these hollow shell kickstarters that saturate the market these days.
@danielyeatts4912 жыл бұрын
I respect all the views of the game given here. That said, I think you guys were pretty hard on it. It does have some small issues I found bothersome at first like: what does this icon mean? or jeez there is a quite a lot of setup. Once I was halfway through my first game I felt I knew the game well. The theme is a bit pasted on, but dude, would I rather have some 1800AD quasi-steampunk night-merchants or more farming with sheep and cattle? Why not have frost bunnies and ravens, even if technically they just hold an action spot for me to place a crystal? Is it really more confusing than other games? I saw your review of Boon Lake, which I found to be VERY confusing, FAR more than this one, yet you had no trouble with it - you loved it. You guys have played and argued for so many boring looking games with just as many bizarre mechanisms I really don't know how this one, which does look better than most, got you stuck. But hey, we all like what we like. Thank you for the video!
@thegamewarrior63062 жыл бұрын
Tom. Zee. Mike. Roy. Hoping to see the scooby gang back together again soon for one of these! Now I realize that sounds like I don't like Chris and Wendy, not true. Love them. Saying I love the old team doesn't mean I am dissing on the two new people. :)
@sauce7732 жыл бұрын
After watching a couple of KZbin playthroughs I really want this game. I agree with some of the stuff Tom said but I don't know why this looks like I would really like it
@Halcyonbane72 жыл бұрын
The left space is the only space in which the number of the pip matters when getting the bonus. You are thinking about it wrong. The first dice that you push in gets you the bonus. The dice that is pushed out determines how much you move around the board, and is the dice used for interacting with the main board. This remains consistent for all three actions.
@Halcyonbane72 жыл бұрын
Also at tom who “laid out the cards side by side”. The dark road is safer with positive rolls being from 3-6. While the dangerous illuminated road has positive rolls only from 4-6.
@nipzie2 жыл бұрын
@@Halcyonbane7 yeah see...that's opposite. A well lit path should be a bit safer. That I don't get. You get 2 rewards but odds are they're garbage because you choose last and to reroll it's another lantern cost? So to do it you should wait for 4 lanterns is all that tells me.
@Halcyonbane72 жыл бұрын
@@nipzie The path is so dangerous that you cannot run the path without having light, where as the safe path is so tame it is easy to navigate even in the dark. (It's not like these paths have light posts, they are both dark and the light is coming from your lanterns). Also the two extra rewards you get are not from the dice rolls that you pick last from. You still only get one of those and are definitely getting screwed in that you pick last when picking the illuminated path. The two extra rewards are the bonuses that you get at the end (wagon upgrade, illuminated dice, bonus objective, or money)
@nipzie2 жыл бұрын
@@Halcyonbane7 ahhh you're right I see that now. I still don't like being punished for 3 lanterns but if I wanted, I could just make the cost 2 lanterns if it doesn't seem too overpowered
@nimblegoat2 жыл бұрын
I had the option to pick up someone's KS bundle ( all in ) for good price - said no - as lot of money , and reading comments - were very very mixed . So would you get 4 players to play it over some other game ? so maybe just maybe flavour of the month
@richardblkmann32982 жыл бұрын
I was really excited for this game but after hearing so many reviews saying the same things I think I'd only be buying it for the gorgeous box..
@muhabwahby2 жыл бұрын
Ouch. I really had high hopes for this one. But, i bought it for the solo mode. So, is the game a lot less chaotic and more strategic in solo mode? Either way, great to hear your honest and diverse thoughts.
@stivomali30222 жыл бұрын
Huzzah! Looks like I chose correct to skip the Kickstarter. I might have been bummed if this would have been 8+ for everyone. No worries saying meh for 1/4 of the gang!
@mothraw12 жыл бұрын
How is it as a two player game???
@ElGrandoCaymano2 жыл бұрын
Oh kiss of death from the DT crew as it seemed they were generous based on the theme and presentation. It seems a game developer was missing as it is sounding very random and chaotic. Oh well, we'll probably find it in the discount aisle shortly, so as I wait for my fulfillment order, I am disappointed.
@spunx443 ай бұрын
Ah yes, the "Kiss of Death" seal of approval. 🙄
@darinherrick92242 жыл бұрын
This review confirms it: Mike is the only person in this group whose opinion I trust.
@genralsnape2 жыл бұрын
On the randomness front, do you think there is a way to house rule any things not changing or would that break the fundamentals of the game?
@jhowd782 жыл бұрын
There's no house rule for people being able to change the market on your turn. They kept saying random when it's player driven. Also no one in any game can predict how cards or tiles flip out of a deck.
@xZuunes2 жыл бұрын
Gotta pass on this one, like the theme though. Btw nice haircut Chris!
@Atlasfilms082 жыл бұрын
My takeaway after one play was that the Merchants of the Dark Road had a stellar production but the game itself was only ok.
@ralelunar2 жыл бұрын
Curse of the Kickstarter in full effect
@markiv29422 жыл бұрын
0:22 Saved!!
@mikewazowski350 Жыл бұрын
Sounds like Merchants of Venus
@Slyfox17752 жыл бұрын
Happy I saved my money on this one.
@hismonkeybusiness67632 жыл бұрын
I bought this game in its deluxified glory, thinking that it would be filled with a lot of fleshed out and tight mechanics complimented by a unique and attractive theme. How disappointed I was when I realised Tom was right. I think I like it even less than Tom, too. It was incredibly hard to learn AND teach, separately. Especially when there's so many little mechanics and rules that are very hard to miss and are mentioned only the one time in small text, and not following them completely muddles up the rounds. There was so much going on in the game but what we were actually doing felt really light. Like the payoff was not there. And the 1/3 of the board was completely wasted, and that whole going into the Dark road served no purpose. The event cards, what was the point of them? None of the flavour text mattered at all. Just another thing you have to do. They could have made it all about the journey, which is what this game should have delivered on. You start in an area where you buy, sell, agree on contracts and whatnot. Then you venture outwards and this is where most of the game takes place. What path you chose will impact the events that occur, as well as the skill levels you have, for example. It should have been way more focused on the theme because after playing it, it feels like the theme could be anything and it wouldn't change the play experience. At all. Sold this one immediately. It's the only game I despise.
@drxsmetalhippie2 жыл бұрын
Why did the video’s color shift green at 17:00?
@spunx443 ай бұрын
Because you touch yourself at night.
@peterjs0072 жыл бұрын
I backed this one as the theme seemed cool. I like the art and the board generally. I think it's a good pick up and deliver. The theme with the mechanics works for me. I don't think it was too unintuitive to learn. The dice bumping+actions is a bit thinky, but I think it means you have to plan what you want to do. I like the market manipulation and pick up and deliver, plus balancing heroes and commissions. There's lots of ways of getting the goods, things you need. I think the market changing /manipulation is an important part of the game (since you can buy low and sell for high)It means your strategy needs to be flexible based on the current market and heroes at the inn, available commissions.
@raggededge682 жыл бұрын
Well said! I couldn't agree with you more. My wife and I have had a great time learning the subtleties of this one. (Also, deeply appreciate your icon!)
@Sthunderrocker2 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure Mike d'ilisio (sp?) is going to give this a pretty positive review since his name is about four away from mine in the box lid.
@michaeldilisio5572 жыл бұрын
I back a lot of crowdfunded games. I can assure you that I don’t like all of them. Also, I had no idea they put backer names in the box lid until I saw this 😂
@JLX52 жыл бұрын
I guess I'm selling my deluxe copy before even opening it. A €100+ game cannot just be OK. I have plenty of excellent games so I will gladly get rid of an overproduced middle of the road boardgame. I actually thought this one would be very thematic and strong. Too bad.
@ElGrandoCaymano2 жыл бұрын
@@hkay3832 Other reviewers also weren't keen on it, though Jeremy Howard likes it. I agree with the OP: a €100 game can't just be OK.
@stevensum20112 жыл бұрын
Get it when it cheap.
@ThaGamingMisfit2 жыл бұрын
Aka wait a few months when 80% of the people dump this game. Or rather, spend your money on something else is probably the better answer.
@lioneart192 жыл бұрын
I thought the inventory management and dice management are nice and unique, but the game on the whole seems unfocused, a bit overdesigned, maybe a streamlined second edition in the future can fix it. I wouldn't know where to begin explaining the rules to someome.
@HALOX302 жыл бұрын
Because sizes are realistic. A potion is smaller then the musical instrument depicted. i don't know why this is an issue that is brought up. i just don't get it.
@CresentSoul2 жыл бұрын
They explained it. The similar colour makes it an easy mix up first time through. Not the worst issue, but worth noting
@HALOX302 жыл бұрын
@@CresentSoul the colour is one thing but they were ralking about size as wel. The size of stuff is relevant because you can not horde everything. You have to be picky. And that is also realistic.
@Bonzoso212 жыл бұрын
@@HALOX30 They brought it up because with the spatial puzzle involved in fitting items into your limited wagon space, they assumed larger, hard-to-fit items would be worth more, but the fluctuating market means that's not always the case. I don't think it's the issue they made it out to be, but I can understand having that expectation from a euro mechanism point of view.
@LegoAssassin0982 жыл бұрын
@@HALOX30 I own the game and I really like it. I think the issue is mainly that cards will have the symbols on it, all the same size. I don't think the size of the actual items is a problem, it's that on the card, there are small squares with the symbol on them and they really matter in the game. With similar colors and similar shape on them, across the table it can be really hard to differentiate between the two. And when one item is the biggest in the game and the other is the smallest, misreading those can set you back significantly in a relatively tight game (as most good euros are). This is especially when it can take multiple turns (depending on the Dice you have and the card/tiles that are present) to get rid of items from your inventory and instruments take up a lot of space which could be better used. I personally haven't had that issue, but I can definitely understand the concern. And once you play it a few times, it'll likely go away. If you want to see what I'm talking about check out the picture online of the hero cards and the contract tiles (if you don't own the game obviously)
@mitchalibi27942 жыл бұрын
Yeah, Good Luck with that...
@JumpOnYourHead2 жыл бұрын
Did any of the team back this on kickstarter?
@richardsaunders92142 жыл бұрын
I predict a 9 from Mike D. before even watching the video
@Therisktaker32 жыл бұрын
It is interesting that so many people who backed the kickstarter are so negative and they have not even had a chance to play it. Keep in mind 2 people enjoyed it and 2 people thought it was okay. I backed it based on the play throughs I saw prior to the release. It is possible I will be frustrated by it, but maybe I will like it. There are some games that people adore that are not for me and some games not rated highly that click. You will not know until you experience it for yourself. Just my 2 cents, have fun.
@yannblondaux60022 жыл бұрын
A bit disappointed by the shallowness of this review. Feels like most of this review is about discussing quite minor things that might not even be a problem for everybody. OK that it could get in the way of the experience to some extent but is this reason enough to dismiss the game (as it really looks like you couldn't get past these issues)? Just wondering if that's reason enough to not elaborate on the actual gameplay., or didn't you think there was more to it? The dice-driven actions, the cards with special ability, the ability to jump together on a travel, that kind of gameplay element should have warranted some more discussion in my opinion. Not trying to defend the game, but definitely feeling like the game didn't pass the initial check for "practicality of the components", which is not non-important but perhaps not the prime reason for wanting to try out the game. Still it's what makes 90% of that review?
@ElGrandoCaymano2 жыл бұрын
A high level of random chaos, lack of player control, limited ability to forward plan, gameplay disconnect with the theme, clunky & confusing mechanisms, poor board architecture (form over function), unnecessary 6x6 cart grid, unfocused design decisions (18 pg rulebook) plus a €100+ price point all seem like valid negative points raised in the review to me.
@robertsilver61812 жыл бұрын
All these complaints feel so nit picky and petty....how many rounds are left? Oh no I have to count, tons of games don't have a round count down, how is that a problem?
@justanerd11382 жыл бұрын
Mike does not agree.: )
@drendelous6 ай бұрын
you are too harsh on rating it
@AdamJorgensen2 жыл бұрын
I don't understand how you can rate a game 6 or 6.5 and then state you basically dislike it more and more with each play or would rather not play it by choice. I think anything 6 or above is basically a game you would rather play than not play because that is literally what the numbers imply.
@ralelunar2 жыл бұрын
Maybe it started at a 7 and got a fraction-worth worse with each play 😅
@GameWeekendChalbie2 жыл бұрын
I take my cues from Boardgamegeek when I rate games. There, a 7 is a good game that I usually say yes to if someone else suggests it. If I give something a 6, that means I’ll play it if I’m in the right mood, but ill most likely never suggest it. Going on that, a 6 is not that positive of a score. But it is still one I kind of liked.
@blacksheep99502 жыл бұрын
Dice Tower (and BGG) scores are heavily centred around a 7 average, not a 5. It's not the most useful scale IMO, hence the need for all the point-five scores, but Tom has rated 7500+ games so it's not changing any time soon.
@AdamJorgensen2 жыл бұрын
@@GameWeekendChalbie I don't think that's a great way to rank stuff and I consider the way scores on BGG trend to be kinda busted. If your score scale is 1 to 10 and you rate something a 6, then numerically and in terms of averages you are literally stating that it is better than average. Rating something a 6 when you've said you would never actively go out of your way to play it is incongruent because you've already state that, for your, it's average at best which means it shouldn't score more than a 5 at most. The problem with this kind of scoring is that it's supremely unhelpful and unbalanced. The scoring system on BGG is basically as follows: 10 - Review brigading 8,9 - Great 7 - Good 6 - Meh, Average 2,3,4,5 - Bad 1 - Review Brigading I really don't think this is a helpful scoring system. The review range around positives is compressed while the review range around negatives is expanded for no good reason, nevermind roughly 20% of the possible review values are completely useless due to brigading nonsense. In terms of this review, I just feel like Chris and Tom are not being honest. It feels like they wanted to rate the game lower but chose not to for some reason or other? Maybe they didn't want to be seen as trashing the game (no doubt being aware of how warped the 1 to 10 rating is in the BG community)? Or maybe they just didn't want a bigger divergence in the scores? Either way, I feel like it would have been better if they had dropped their scores a bit and for me as a viewer it would have been more helpful in getting across the message that this is a bit of a divisive game. A score range of 6 to 8 for a divisive game is rather at odds with it being a divisive game :-)
@Tohnren2 жыл бұрын
@@AdamJorgensen I think you can look at it alternatively. If you're rating games on an objective scale then maybe modern hobby games on average are about a 7. So a mass market game like sorry might be a 2 or a 3. A game getting a 6 means objectively it's a decent game but relative to all the great hobby games we have now it's just not worth playing since many of them are 7s and above. Does that make sense? I don't actually know yet if I agree with them on this review, mind you.
@MrTanukiD2 жыл бұрын
I had a headache halfway through the rules explanation. Looks like a right dogs dinner.
@kafka06222 жыл бұрын
Uh, Tom... I don't know if you realize this but Lutes are bigger than potions but not necessarily worth more. Not rocket science.
@almondroy2 жыл бұрын
you guys talk about thematic disconnect for some part of the game and then complain that not all objects are the same size?
@DTChrisYi2 жыл бұрын
If they're going to be different sizes, but not have any other inherent value then it still doesn't feel terribly thematic. A wheel that rotates on certain actions can make a potion change in value from 1 coin to 5 coins, which doesn't feel terribly thematic. Those aspects combined just doesn't feel that satisfying for me. Hope that helps.
@almondroy2 жыл бұрын
@@DTChrisYi isn't the wheel a metaphorical representation of the market changes and manipulation, or is there a giant wheel in a corner of this town that everyone visits to check how they should price things? haha imagine everyone praying to the all mighty WHEEL of the market, ALL HAIL THE WHEEL!
@CresentSoul2 жыл бұрын
I think they referred to thematic disconnect in relation to teaching the game. In the case of this game, the disconnect is working against the game
@DTChrisYi2 жыл бұрын
@@almondroy I now believe the almighty wheel is physically part of the town! Thanks for that imagery, haha
@alcovitch2 жыл бұрын
@@DTChrisYi I'm not sure I understand the complaint here. The value of the item has no relation to how large it is to fit in your wagon. The size is simply a representation of how much space that thing takes up in your wagon. Donno, i feel a lot of the complaints in this review were really nit picky.
@deltari11052 жыл бұрын
Had to stop at 27 minutes to comment the non sense of the talk about size of the item and the idea of price change......especially if you say thet you use thematic example to explain Tom. In life there are swatch that cost more than a car and swatch that cost less, size doesn't matter, I feel you are playing too much and expecting that an obje t need to have meaning as a mechanic, but may be the size is just a rapplesentation of the reality in this game whiteout need to reflect a different meaning in the game.