Tier Ranking the BEST and WORST Miniature Wargames!

[@TabletopTurtle]

Warhammer is the Monopoly of Tabletop Wargaming.

[@garylane6227]

Meaning the most popular, best selling miniature game ever.

[@blakearius]

@@garylane6227 Meaning it's shallow because it appeals to the widest audience possible. Also Monopoly can kiss my ass.. A stolen idea that celebrates capitalism instead of highlighting the how broken the shitshow of the rental market is like it was meant to. -I guess there is the irony in how much GW has stolen from existing properties too.

[@daerovius7535]

GW hasn't made a good version of their games for more than 20 years... They suck

[@664chrisman]

Ha Ha I call GW the Walmart of tabletop gaming.

[@blakearius]

Why the hell does youtube delete my innocuous comment and then give me reply updates. Hate this platform these days!

[@iantmurdock]

Ranking chess. Played it once, lost and didn’t enjoy it. Movement rules not intuitive. Too many things to remember. No strategy as both armies exactly the same. Miniature figures not well-sculpted, knights are just horse heads. Z tier. Just not a good game. Obviously fanboys will disagree but just popular due to nostalgia as I heard it’s been around a while. Can’t understand why so many people play it. Must be simple entertainment for the masses.

[@alexc8209]

Checkers. (Drafts for us Brits). Terrible figures, restricted battlefield, bizarre movement rules and uninspired colour schemes. Humanity can do better.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Hopefully, I can earn my GM status in Warhammer someday!

[@iantmurdock]

@@TabletopTurtle well, the fact the Golden Demon, Warhammer's biggest, longest-running competition, is for painting rather than playing probably says something. One day they might rival the real masters in selling overpriced plastic: the Lego company. $460 for Barad-Dur and they didn't even bother to write ANY rules. Just adding up the cost of a small Star Wars Lego rebel force makes my calculator cry.

[@garylane6227]

You described Tabletop Turtle reviews perfectly 🤣Kudos.

[@maxmagnus377]

@@garylane6227 Yeah, chess will never last. It needs a battle Royale mode...

[@biostem]

One of the designers of Malifaux 2nd here. So fun to hear that you love it so much.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Nice! Loved second edition, my man! Malifaux has so many unique and creative mechanics behind it that even if a person doesn't like it, they have to acknowledge that!

[@planetsmashergames]

@biostem - you guys killed it with second edition! We talk about it all the time on our 'Rule of Carnage' miniatures game design podcast, because as a game designer I'm still learning things from your game a decade later. Thank you!

[@VelcroSnake93]

I do actually love Blood Bowl, but I completely understand why people don't like it. I like it because it's not balanced, and it's actually more about risk mitigation than anything else. And building your team over time is a BIG part of the game.

[@TabletopTurtle]

That's fair and I get that. I just wished the silliness was somehow more intertwined with the mechanics beyond just a roll and a chart.

[@christracey5813]

As someone who plays both BattleTech and Blood Bowl, I find it ironic that you criticize randomness and checking tables every 5 minutes in blood bowl and give it a D, but you give BattleTech (a literal game of tables within tables) an A rating. They're both good games, but it's an odd inconsistency when there is a hell of a lot more randomness in what happens to a mech in combat compared to a Blood Bowl player during a game

[@TabletopTurtle]

Nostalgia, esthetics, and miniatures.

[@Haddedam]

Battletech tables are rather easy and modular rules mean you can ignore most of them. After playing bunch of hex and counter wargames, BT tables are pretty elegant. And yes, I still wish there was a ruleset between alpha strike and the game whose abbreviation is aptly CBT.

[@supachigga]

Yeah, I noticed that too. They both deserve a D for gameplay IMO

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

“Infinity is a game that I’d never recommend to anybody.” This is the only reason I don’t put Infinity as S Tier.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Likely should have clarified that I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who isn't deep in the hobby space and have been playing games for a long time . . . so certainly none of my friends. Still best game on the market today.

[@Direwoof]

I'd recommend it to super nerdy autistic strategy nerds who literally read sun tzu the art of war and legend of the five rings XD I love it but I never win a game.

[@RattlerNxt]

Infinity is an amazing game. Even with the dense rules, it takes me 10 min to demo 80% of them because it’s so intuitive.

[@TabletopTurtle]

It really is intuitive surprisingly which is so helpful in remembering the rules if you go awhile without playing

[@Maladjester]

I have been interested to try Infinity. Sadly I live in the boonies and what passes for my local gaming scene is heavily invested, like took-out-a-second-mortgage-I-have-a-problem-someone-help-me heavily invested in 40k.

[@RattlerNxt]

@@Maladjester that’s rough. I get it.

[@garylane6227]

Infinity is so great people get in to it, play for six months, then completely lose interest.

[@RattlerNxt]

@@garylane6227 you could say the same for any game for any number of reasons.

[@jaredbrummett6047]

The Heroscape slander is diabolical

[@daniel-lee888]

Ha - yes I love Heroscape, it's provided hours of fun for me and friends and easy to get new players up and running. Prepainted minis (in the original sets) means they are table ready immediately. I'll never sell my sets!

[@TabletopTurtle]

haha man I swear I'm not being an asshole, I genuinely wanted to like that game but every single time I kept asking myself "is this it!?" after every play. Then I had to deconstruct the damn board!

[@CarbonBallas]

@@TabletopTurtle haha!! So true. Even though I'm an avid heroscape fan. Lol

[@zackanderson9453]

@@TabletopTurtleI’m not sure where you live, but come out to an event. Best part of then game is army building. Also, why take down the map? Do you take down your 4x6 each time?

[@Dead_Fish0]

As a 40k fan I do totally agree with you about 40k fans🤣 One thing to add in the next section, Batman, you mentioned how you were upset they changed the rules to make it boring - I think that's what 40k fans are often complaining about, and how frequent they change 😤

[@TabletopTurtle]

Then they are my brothers!

[@michaelambrose1]

The 'new' Kill Team is completely different. The old Kill Team you know felt like it had clunky rules that tried to be a little original, but still just felt like a slow paced 40k lite. The new KT is a dream to play. As a Malifaux player, it's tough to choose which I prefer.. it's that good.

[@amsfountain8792]

How does Warcry commpare to Kill team? I am on the fence wich one to buy.

[@11AleZZ]

I prefer KT 2018, the rules were not good but the personalisation was great, in the new KT personalisation it's very limited, that for a skirmish game it's a killer, also the balance like all GW games is a problem, some faction are trash and other are OP

[@ruas4721]

Old kill team was much more fun, even with its problems. The new killteam lost so many cool things about warband creation and also some rules are very weird. The balancing is in both versions a nightmare.

[@ruas4721]

@@amsfountain8792 Warcry is a terrible game, dont know how it got such a good ranking in this guys tier list. Kill team is way better, but there are much better skirmish games than both of them, they are low tier games with high prices and bad rules.

[@dratesdragetes777]

@@amsfountain8792 warcry is fun, the only issue I had with it was the token managment. I personally just did not care for killteam at all when I tried playing 5 games of it earlier this year however, its a better game than 40k tenth edition, but it still has some questionable game design.

[@johnwilson7207]

I like Space Station Zero. Agnostic minis, build a team, go explore as co-op teams or skirmish on the main deck. The game encourages a diverse skill set rather than just a smash & bash through the scenarios, works well with odd number of players too so nobody gets left out.

[@thesurlyhippie9397]

It's damn tough, though.

[@googlemademedoit806]

Poor Star Wars Armada... didn't even make the list T_T

[@TabletopTurtle]

HAHA funny cause when I was just making the list of games I played I did notice the lack of Armada, because I think I always dismissed it as just X-Wing with some extra shit and a larger scale.

[@clontroper5]

​@@TabletopTurtle Star Wars Armada has some of my favorite mechanics ever! Specifically the defense tokens system is Amazing IMO adds much for strategic depth and decision making to acts of attacking and defending then simply rolling dice like most minatures games.

[@ridingwarthogs3244]

​@TabletopTurtle Having played both it's a completely different game to X-wing. Much more strategy and more need to plan ahead with how your ships are controlled

[@AinarMiyata]

Yup, armada is a completely different beast. Armada is a much more thinky strategy game. It’s incredible if you have a taste for that kind of thing.

[@alexandrepetean4612]

You should try Armada.

[@CaptinCrofty]

Played my first game of infinity today! Was really fun very very crunchy can’t wait to get a Handel on it

[@TabletopTurtle]

That's awesome! Man, I have found the community in Infinity to be so damn good. I literally walked into a store one day and saw some guys playing it and knowing nothing about it I asked if I could observe, after like 15 minutes they stopped playing and just taught me the game and let me play. I walked out of that damn store with an entire army haha

[@bjornsoderstrom378]

That’s the neat part. You won’t get a handle on it. Ever.

[@mn01_]

The entire point of this video is to stick Kill Team and 40K in C tier to farm rage😂

Seems like it 😛. I can see it with 40K as it sure ain't everyone's cup of tea and GW is GW but using the old version of Kill Team here feels kinda disingenuous as you cant even buy it anywhere at this point.

[@TabletopTurtle]

I spent an hour talking about games and dozens of hours editing to piss off a few Warhammer people. You got me! lol I think with GW I sometimes feel like I'm being sold more of a product than a game. Maybe I'll try the new Kill Team . . . but probably not. I still have yet to see it offer anything new or interesting.

[@mn01_]

@@TabletopTurtle at least you can admit it 🙃 But yes, they are absolutely selling a family of products. GW is an IP led company and they’re sell Warhammer toilet paper if they thought somebody would buy it. It’s a good business model but doesn’t necessarily make good games

[@DogseatDogs]

@@mn01_ It makes TabletopTurtle seems less honest and objective. Also kind of hypocritical when he is trying to anger certain Warhammer people and criticizes GW like that.

[@stylesheetra9411]

40k doesnt even deserve C tier to be honest

[@oldman1111]

Malifaux in S Tier? Okay, I'll definitely watch. Edit: Mal AND Infinity S Tier? I like this. This is good.

[@TabletopTurtle]

This man knows what's up!

[@eriklindqvist9923]

X-Wing was just killed by Asmodee/AMG last month. They will support tournaments up until Adepticon next year, but production has stopped so no more products. Fans are already stepping up to keep it alive. The community is quite split since 2020 when AMG took over from FFG and changed the game a lot. It is about a 50-50 with players liking 2.0 and the new "2.5". The latest version from AMG has no official edition or core set, just PDF rules, which also made it confusing for new players and didn't help the community. Still really like the changes from 1.0 to 2.0 though, it balanced things after the power creep that happened the last years of 1.0, and it upgraded the old ships with mechanics that had been added during later waves.

[@TabletopTurtle]

That's sad to hear but inevitable with a lot of these mini games owned by a more generalist company like CMON, Fantasy Flight, etc. Plus it's a licensed property, so you know that's running out eventually. Maybe I'll try to find some online deals for some X-Wing stuff before it's all gone.

[@romankondrashov7475]

No Age Of Sigmar - No Party

[@TabletopTurtle]

Well you never offered to play with me and bring your armies over. So really, it's your fault.

[@edwardlasso3092]

Have you tried out "Battletech: Alpha Strike"? It is basically an alternate set of rules that simplifies the record sheets into playing-card-sized cards (less logistics), and also simplifies the movement rules (uses measured distances - no need for hexes for moving or for determining ranges). It seems to be a way to target the "hexless" game players into trying out a semi-"Battletech" system.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Ohhh that actually sounds better.

[@ShadowAxon]

​@@TabletopTurtle I exclusively play Alpha Strike, I've only played classic once, but it never gave me a "War feel" because placing more than 2 mechs on the table made the battle last hours. But in alpha strike you can run multiple lances in the same length of time.

[@BrandonL337]

My impression is that Alpha Strike is also much better for scaled-up battles as well, multiple lances, combined arms, with tank platoons, aircraft, etc.

[@VictorSteiner]

Alpha Strike is so watered down that it basically has nothing to do with Battletech anymore besides the minis: there is a classic/Alpha Strike hybrid invented by Death frommAbove Wargaming called Battletech Override. Faster than classic but still with individual weapons and simplified armor. A VERY good mix!

[@vectorstrike]

Alpha Strike is great!

[@AlertedDonkey42]

Love seeing Malifaux and Infinity getting the recognition they deserve for their awesome settings and rule sets. I do think a revisit to Bushido is warranted. It’s up there with Infinity and Malifaux in my opinion. For recommendations I’d suggest Dystopian Wars, Botwar, and Judgement: Eternal Champions. Dystopian wars is my favorite naval combat game. Botwar really brings that nostalgia for 80’s and 90’s cartoons. Judgement has hex-based gameplay and beautiful models made by Creature Caster. Thanks for the video!

[@TabletopTurtle]

I'll get back to Bushido eventually. I'd imagine the company is still supporting the game.

[@thomgizziz]

@@TabletopTurtle You should try warhammer underworlds, it is like warcry but in a quick small tabletop game.

[@anab0lic]

Infinity and Malifaux at the top where they belong... You have excellent taste sir. Id also put Guildball at S tier, despite it being mishandled by SFG, its still mechanically one the best miniature games that exists and also now being supported by SFG again (kinda). SAGA which you didn't mention, id also rank S tier, you should maybe give that a try sometime.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Guild Ball is amazing, it's true. I am curious to see if the factions get a bit better in regards to how they play because a big complain was that everything started feeling a little samey because SFG couldn't understand how to balance a game properly without making everything the same. I'm not sure I've heard of SAGA. I'll have a look.

[@martinpersson1412]

Happy to see Malifaux at the top :) I have yet to find a wargame (or any game) that I think is better.

[@TabletopTurtle]

There isn't. Stop searching. It's like I said, I might acknowledge Infinity (which I also love) as better game with WAY more depth . . . but man there is just something about Malifaux that provides way more joy, despite it also being a very strategic and dense game itself.

[@HellsWolf666]

Infinity and Malifaux S tear. Thumbs up, comment and a share. You are a man of culture.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Haha my anime watching brain went to something very different with "man of culture".

[@jamespreston3414]

I completely agree with you about Malifaux. I utterly disagree with you on Infiniti. Malifaux has a great mission system too, that's one of my favorite parts, because you can complete schemes by actively sacrificing models, really throwing your opponents for a loop. The Infinity games I've seen and takes from the meta lists make me never want to touch it with a ten foot poll at my local stores.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Yeah I love that you can focus entirely on the mission in Malifaux and end up surprising your opponent if they're not paying special attention.

[@Olivia-ev9hk]

I didn't see AoS on your list it is basically all the good stuff in 40K but way less annoting with charts and shooting across the the field over and over. Lots more engagement and tactical play.

[@TabletopTurtle]

If only that new starter set wasn't 300 dollars, my word!

[@Olivia-ev9hk]

@TabletopTurtle yea...GW is a bit bad at new player on boarding. You are far better off getting with some friends finding an army you like and buying the models you need while skipping the starter box unless you want Skaven

[@VelcroSnake93]

A lot of the GW games getting ranked low seems to go along with GW themselves saying they are a miniatures company, not a game company. Their games are more designed to sell miniatures and rulebooks than they are to actually be REALLY GOOD games.

[@liquiddude9855]

No its couse this guy hate GW. Killteam is waaaaaay better then Infinity.

[@wolfmanhcc]

Warcry should've gotten an A or an S.

[@MigueL-ep2lr]

Just because a game is simpler doesn't make it worse, as examples you have the more traditional board games, such as chess.

[@kylemoore7746]

Thanks for putting this together. I appreciate the range of games you've played, not something too many people have experience in.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Too much free time apparently 🤣

[@TrowaVidel]

Before i comment on anything specifics just need to say, Great video. it's always good to have a resource like this to gather different opinions of a game before jumping in. That being said, MAN I didn't think it'd hurt so much to see someone bounce off of Blood Bowl that hard. It's a game that brought me so many fun memories. Weird though that Guild ball jived with you for a lot of the reasons I enjoy about Blood bowl(The focus on scoring rather then just fighting, the humor etc)... But Obviously if the bones of a game don't work for you there's no reason to stick and keep playing. On the other side as someone who just stumbled into the Gaslands hole, Hard agree. Played with with roommates on our kitchen table and we had a great time and may even start up a in-house season play. so fun!

[@TabletopTurtle]

Man, I wanted to like it so much. I really genuinely did! I was so psyched hearing about it and I was pumped to play a season but after playing I was just so damn disappointed and sad. For Gaslands I now have friends who have ZERO interest in modeling or painting who own their own hotwheels cars that they've glued random shit to haha

[@11AleZZ]

ASOIAF its a A to me, pretty easy to learn hard to master game, its also relatively cheap game, you only need a starter and 2-3 unit boxes and thats it, yeah some of the new factions are a bit redundant but if you use the 3-4 first factions, you have a ton of replay value

[@TabletopTurtle]

I do love how inexpensive it is. I've seen it on huge sale many times.

[@Lucius292]

Where is deadzone and firefight, warpath? 😢

[@dominicparker6124]

Blitz bowl is an easy A tier. Approachable, instantly fun, great minis (gw bloodbowl models are great), doesn't have gross bloodbowl design from the 80s. It's short at 45 minutes or less, just a real class product. Shockingly deep for it's rules complexity.

[@TabletopTurtle]

The minis are pretty cool. No denying that fact.

[@igelkott255]

You should try Deadzone. The new Halo game that's coming out soon has a similar game system. Fast, easy to learn, fun scifi skirmish game.

Deadzone is an awesome skirmish game!

[@TabletopTurtle]

I've never been a halo fan, but I'll watch a few playthroughs

[@grutfrut5817]

DZ is the best skirmish game I've played.

[@emilandersson6470]

Here's a point of view from someone with a completely different outlook. Might not be entirely relevant to the video topic but I felt like writing it up anyway. Me and my chums decided to go back and play the Warhammer of our childhoods in the 90s. We've pretty much jumped back 30 years to the schoolyard days of going over the same citadel catalogue every break between classes, arguing over which armies had the cooler stuff, except now we're actually collecting, painting and playing it too. Best move ever. I absolutely prefer getting off the train (so to speak) rather than ride along with the trends, weirder and crazier as they're getting. Games Workshop did their part by writing the rules back then, now the game is ours to perfect. As to the quality of the game(s) back then and where they would have ended up in your ranking... to be frank, I don't really care. They are exactly what I want them to be: good fun with a group of old friends and a huff of that powerful nostalgia, hooo boy!

[@VictoriaWargaming]

Hi There, Not sure how long ago you played KoW, but i think you ran into the biggest 'problem' of KoW - It's a wargame with Fantasy flavor, not a Fantasy game with wargame flavor. Chess is bland, but it's well balanced and fair, stable and about the player, not the list you brought to the table. KoW is like that. You need to play it quite a lot before what it brings to the table becomes apparent - 2 games? Nowhere near enough to even scratch the surface - especially if you're not making your own list to create your own toolkit to go with strategies you come up with. In KoW the gameplay comes from you using your army as a toolkit to win battles, using the terrain for advantage and playing to objectives. There are no crutches or special rules or 'easy' ways of winning games. It's not Herohammer/Magichammer/Monsterhammer and for some people they're after the Fantastic Fantasy, not the Wargame. If you want a wargame, like.. a proper wargame.. with Fantasy flavor I think KoW is the best out there. Our channel did an intro video to KoW which included a game being played so is quite long - kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJubc4urmcRqo5I Cheers!

[@phillipstone3116]

35:54 Tactical meat was my nickname in college

[@gstellar96]

Conquest by Parabellum is my personally favorite rank and flank game as they have large high quality minis with a very unique aesthetic for all the factions with interesting lore and gameplay that revolves around a deck of cards where you have to prepare the order you're activating your units in advance with a lot of mechanics that mess around with the deck as you're playing

[@evanuphil]

Plus one for trying conquest. As a new gamer it was way more approachable than Warhammer, and the minis are awesome. Customer-friendly company and growing community.

[@TabletopTurtle]

That does sound interesting and it's nice they made their troops not carbon copied of one another. That makes for some boring paint nights.

[@christophearbus3523]

Space Hulk should be D Star Wars X-Wing should be max at B Battletech should be B at max or C Fallout should be at least B Kill Team V2 should be at least B A Song of Ice & Fire THAT LOW??? Should be S or A Another S Tier: Deadzone

[@TabletopTurtle]

Disagree!

[@christophearbus3523]

@@TabletopTurtle Of course, otherwise you would ranked them differently. We're not sensible to the same things. From a game design point of view ASOIAF is a gem and I don't know which version you tried to have the feeling every army or character is the same, because you can drastically change the gameplay even sometimes within a same faction.

[@mikefish1124]

I'm not exactly the kind of guy who demands that everyone like the same things i do, but i find your take on Warmachine to be...baffling. It's like everything you disliked about it was completely opposite of reality, to the point where you might as well have been talking about a different game. Wacky.

[@TabletopTurtle]

This is definitely the most repeating comment. I might have to give it another shot, perhaps.

[@mikefish1124]

@TabletopTurtle I don't know - you seem so psychologically dead set against it, I'm not sure a repeat would help you? Not saying you are some sort of close-minded person, but sometimes folks just have such a negative experience, that it taints all future interactions. So while the game is easily probably the best out of all you just listed, I'm not sure it's for you, man. Probably just keep playing what you currently like, you know?

[@TabletopTurtle]

@@mikefish1124 Makes sense to me. I mean, shit, we all are starving for more free time and we only have so much to give to the things we enjoy.

[@niceasmd9890]

​@@TabletopTurtleI'm going to add in to the pro-warmachine crowd. The game is incredibly deep. The problem it has is that the learning curve can be quite steep, and player skill is a huge factor. We had to actively ensure that new players didn't play 'that guy' until they were comfortable with the rules or else they'd have a miserable experience

[@colinmack8655]

Kings of War is the game I wish fantasy had been. So you are wrong it’s an a.

[@TabletopTurtle]

What fantasy element is Kings of War doing differently from every other IP?

[@colinmack8655]

​@TabletopTurtle Nightstalkers for one. What about the update to the twilight kin? Have you read any of the novels? Plus the rules are the best smooth fast we'll written and balanced,

[@TylerProvick]

Necromunda didn't require a gm for the campaign, btw. It wasn't balanced and had the same randomness of Mordheim, so it's still probably in the right spot of your tier list.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Okay I was misremembering. But I do remember not being overly impressed with the tactics and strategy available to me while playing.

[@Dazzxp]

@@TabletopTurtle Necromunda C tier is criminal! people have been put to death for less!

[@TheDyslexicDragon]

I really hated the Scavvy Plague Zombies spam. Necromunda was definitely not balanced.

[@thesurlyhippie9397]

It's a narrative game, though... "balance": be damned. "Balance" and the quest to find it is what makes so many modern games so... bland.

[@Justin-ku6oz]

My favorite miniature game is Relicblade love everything about it. Also check out Rangers of Shadowdeep if you like cooperative!

[@TabletopTurtle]

Rangers of the Shadowdeep is on my wishlist. I'll have a look at Relicblade.

[@basition]

Rest in piece warzone the mutant chronicles, void, vor, and epic 40k

[@alexc8209]

Ah yes Epic 40K. It was so good they quickly abandoned it. Typical GW move.

[@robertthurman9866]

I love videos like this. Short, to the point, good stuff, bad stuff and a rating. If my fave game get's trashed I don't mind. In fact often I can agree with why it was disliked. And I learn about new games. Aristeia! and Moonstone both sound good. Agnostic miniature rules always welcome. Subscribed.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Aristeia isn't supported any longer but you can usually find the stuff fairly cheap and it's a good stand alone game that's easy to bust out for none mini gamers. Moonstone is pricey, fair warning, but thankfully you don't need a lot of minis to play.

[@andreytatarinovminiatures]

Didn't expect to see my miniatures in this video. At 37:52 shows my Cult of Yurei force. I won fantasy unit category at Salute 2013 with them. Haven't painted anything in years. Got a bunch of hot wheels cars not too long ago, but didn't do any thing with them.

[@TabletopTurtle]

You did a great job! You should get back at it!

[@alexandrepetean4612]

I missed Skytear on the list. I believe it deserves attention too, even though it is a skirmish style closer to Boardgame with Magic The Gatering and has been discontinued to make way for Onward (new version of Skytear more focused on simulating MOBA) It's a bit like Aristeia, but more complex

[@TabletopTurtle]

I'll have a look. I like that it sounds more complex than Aristeia. Always good to have a few steps inbetween a hardcore mini game and a board game.

[@peerm2130]

I felt in love with Lasting Tales. It's more a mix of DnD, Dungeon Crawler and Tabletop.

[@Baron_Laska]

Thanks for this tier list. I have wanted to consider some non-GW games for a while now, and this was a great starting point to explore some ideas. Trying to generate some interest in Moonstone in my group now. Shame about Arena Rex because those miniatures are phenominal.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Just remember that while the minis are more expensive in Moonstone, you can get away with owning MUCH less than your standard skirmish game. Plus they're so damn beautiful!

[@orkusdorkusmaximus]

kingmaker Spacehulk was my entry into board game! special place in my heart for spacehulk!

[@TabletopTurtle]

Yeah there is some nostalgia there for me too!

[@paulmualdeave5063]

Infinity N5 comes out in October. We learned that at Gencon.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Whoa! I didn't even know that! Time to hit up their KZbin channel and watch some Carlos!

[@claypooljones3825]

some INTERESTING takes here that's for sure; 'didn't play the game as intended so i didn't enjoy it....' yeaaaaaaah good review

[@TabletopTurtle]

Whatever you need to tell yourself to stop the flow of tears from your favorite game getting a D. Ten bucks says I can smoke you in your favorite game, too! 😜😜

[@planetsmashergames]

Holy h*ck! I just watched this whole video purely because I love hearing about other minis games, (great vid by the way, enjoyed the candour and agreed with the majority of your takes, #malifaux4life), and then you go and put my game right at the end and say such nice things about it. THANKS MY DUDE! :D

[@TabletopTurtle]

Mike? Bro, I love your game! My friends, most of whom play no miniature games at all, also love it. Keep creating!

[@magnum696]

Really enjoyed your video and really appreciate the fact that your opinion comes from having actually played these games instead of others who just read descriptions about them. I have played most on your list. Gaslands was my gateway into the hobby. It is a great little game. Since then I tried a lot of systems and, like you, my favorites have been Inifinity, Malifaux and MCP. I also enjoy Star Wars Legion. It is unfortunate however, that my locals neither play Malifaux or Infinity. We have good groups for MCP and Legion. They are fun but nothing like the strategy involved with Malifuax with the fun secondary objectives or the fun reactive turns of Infinity. 40k is always popular. I gave that a shot this year but could not get over the non alternating activations. In general each game is fun in it's own way and it is fun to jump around time to time. Looking forward to a future video if you decided to update on additional games you try.

[@TabletopTurtle]

It really sucks when the game you love requires people outside your friend group to enjoy because you're kinda at the mercy of whatever new game is in your local meta. And the alternating action thing always made me laugh because any GW product that has it, the feature gets advertised like it's some big innovation! 🤣

[@DJDadJoke]

My one true love in miniatures games is Marvel Crisis Protocol. Such a thematic and fun game. I own almost all the models, and I've even painted some of them. xD A few of my buddies are into Malifaux, so I'm getting a demo game in next weekend. Looking forward to that because that game seems super fun. I've dabbled in Warcry, Monsterpocalypse, and Star Wars Shatterpoint, but none of those games have really taken off locally. I will say that the new edition of Kill Team is MUCH better than the 2018 one you mentioned in the video. I don't blame you for dropping that one, the whole game was very at odds with itself. It was like playing big 40k but awkwardly shoved into a skirmish mold that just didn't fit. The new edition is a completely different game made from the ground up to be its own thing. It has one of the best melee combat systems I've seen in a skirmish game where you alternate applying your successful roles as either hits or parries. There's also a very interesting system where you can set your models as either engaged so you can shoot/charge, or concealed so that they're harder to shoot at. My main complaints with Kill Team 2.0 are that it's overpriced (GW game), the line of sight rules are over complicated and unintuitive, and the rules are overly wordy (GW game). I would put it solidly in B-tier and it is by-far Games Workshop's best 40k game system.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Don't tell Atomic Mass Games but I only own the base set and a few expansions. I 3d printed and painted A TON of Marvel minis to play in the game. I'm a bad person. Hopefully you enjoy Malifaux. It's really tough when you first start. Yeah people keep praising the new Kill Team but I likely won't bother going back. I'm not the biggest GW fan so a game needs to be really damn good to get my cash when it's made by them.

[@PannkakaMedSylt]

I do reccomend trying Age of Sigmar for sure! OR you could play Spear head (AoS) kinda like combat patrole for 40k but more effort went into it, so actully pretty good!! it's Scaled down AoS into a smaller battle with fewer units & usually between 5-10 man instead of reinforced 20 man squads and big monsters, and rules a little bit simplified but still not far off real AoS, some simple rules to simulate more complex systems like Magic from AoS main game, instead of casting spell with 2d6 dice and having bonuses and enemy then potentially unbind your spell with 2d6, you just roll 1D6 and succeed on 3+ or such. Played atleast half of the games in the video and overall I'd agree with your ranking! Only thing I feel might be a bit off is those bigger scale games with armies, I think they just operate different then the smaller ones, different aspects of it depth, and they just aren't for everyone for sure! and it's up to personal taste. I also prefer AoS > 40k (Played warhammer for 25 years and tested all their games) because it focuses on Melee fantasy armies & not Shooting! thus formations and movement similar to chess in AoS. You can screen your frontlines like with pawns in chess with cheaper standard troops, have your Knights or Monster pieces behind to lash out and kill enemy key pieces, battle has more layers to it then 40k that often can shoot freely at anything they see, even if other troops infront. (AoS still have some shooting with bows / Catapults, but not main focus or dmg).

[@triplea657aaa]

40k players don't hate 40k. They hate the company that makes it because they charge $50 for a single bloody infantry character model. I got into 40k this year and 40k is amazing, but you really need to find an army you like and a 3D printer is a big help.

[@TabletopTurtle]

I'm sending the GW Gestapo to your house right now to steal your printer! I do the same with MCP . . . don't tell Atomic Games!

[@dreadknight8398]

Excellent tier rank Really wonder what your thoughts on Warhammer Age of Sigmar game with spearhead

[@TabletopTurtle]

What's spearhead? Is that an expansion? I do appreciate the theme more

[@excessiveclownery4375]

​@@TabletopTurtlespearhead is a gamemode with some unique rules that plays with premade boxsets, basically a smaller AoS

[@jackbrownii]

Watching the tide go out in the background. 🤣

[@roycepodeszwa6857]

You should try out Star Wars: Armada. It was created by FF same as X-wing and, unlike X-wing, did not get totally reworked by AMG. Has the unique movement style to it and tactical fleet combat that's a blast to play. I like to think of it as chess in space.

[@TabletopTurtle]

It never took off like X-Wing did. I wonder why that is.

[@augustinelim1985]

Pretty sure Mage Knight (the mini wargame) has been discontinued.

[@TabletopTurtle]

RIP Mage Knight. You were the grandfather!

[@twanvanexsel7760]

Did you ever try Core Space? It is amazing. Like playing an open word computer game. You can do anything you can think off during the game. Very heavy on rules (due to being able to do much) But once you get the hang of it: so much fun!

[@TabletopTurtle]

I'll have to give that a look. We do REALLY enjoy dense games in this house, provided that density and complexity is offering a shit-ton of strategy and depth.

[@Original_Maverick]

Dont know where you are, but it reminds me of home. Thanks! Never really played any miniature war games outside of some euro driven ones. Have done some chit/block wargames. I appreciate you bringing different interests within the hobby space to light. I think there is a ton of room to explore that people don't even know about.

[@TabletopTurtle]

We were in BC at the time on one of the islands. There is certainly something for everyone in every niche hobby space, I think.

[@cerohero1]

Moonstone is easily my favorite minis game now. It's such a good balance of lighter rules while still having a lot of unique feel to each character. Plus the low model count is super nice and really offsets the higher cost per model

[@TabletopTurtle]

It really is! I love painting them because you can make them so bright and fun

[@rjscorpion8892]

The reason 40k is better is the number of players. Around me, no one is playing these other games whereas you can always find a game. That alone is a huge factor.

[@TabletopTurtle]

And that's totally fair. Can't play this stuff solo. I just manipulate friends to play what I want.

[@S0nyb1ack]

I'm extremely lucky to have a relatively big (for our small country at least) local community who looooove miniature agnostic games and Conquest: Last argument of Kings (and there are a couple of people willing to play Malifaux with me as well) :D I've really bounced off warhammer hard, but I'm enjoying my time with Conquest a lot - though I do really like rank and flank games in general ;)

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

The trick, is to be the one who introduces the game.

[@Haddedam]

My tiny country has almost entierly wh players but since the game is geniuinely rather bad even in their opinion and GW is terrible, every player has armies for like 4-5 different games. Bonus point: for the price of a SINGLE medium sized 40k army, you can get like 5-10 full playable miniature sets for other games. And as a bonus, statistically those games are going to be flat out better to play as well.

[@garylane6227]

And do you think that it is played more because people prefer it? Logic would dictate that if all these other games were so much better people would be playing them. I think there are better games than 40k (and better editions of 40k as there are so many), but there is no miniature game that is more popular. That is just a fact.

[@zodiac3981]

While I disagree with you about kings of war, I can see why it's not everyone's cup of tea. I really like the strategy that it has and in my experience, is a fairly well balanced war game. It's also miniature agnostic so you can add some flair through 3d printing or using AOS minis.

[@TabletopTurtle]

I used to hate mini agnostic games but then I got a 3D printer and now they are my favorite.

[@blkjet117]

You might want to look into the miniature skirmish game Burrows & Badgers. Blitz Bowl is everything you wanted in Blood Bowl, but streamlined, smaller, much quicker game.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Burrows & Badgers looks fun to paint!

[@matt6387]

As a guy who went from board gaming to tabletop gaming as i aged i just found your channel great list i will stick around if you make more table top content. The beauty of table top games is the hobby and because of it anyone else into the hobby is so committed to the thing that you will always have games even if you dont have local friends who play. It is very cool how the communities around these things work. I would love to know what you think of aos.

[@GlimpG]

I understand the blood bowl hate, but I must insist anyone who wants to try it to actually try it. I know it sounds really stupid, plain and kind of boring, but it's actually a very tactical positioning game that has lots of wacky things that can happen on the very even field, it's very interesting and fun. Believe me, I wasn't interested in it at all but now I'm a true believer, and the community is amazing.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Well I can agree about the community. All good guys from those I've interacted with. I think Guild Ball provided that sports wargame blend I was looking for but it would be cool to have a game that's a little more silly and off the wall. My issue is always those damn charts.

[@odallyo5861]

@@TabletopTurtle I agree that the Charts are random, i think this game is targeted more to a Strategy intensive audience. I absolutely love it. There are Charts and it is RNG but part of that strategy is risk management. Knowing where to zone your players or position them to minimize casualties. I feel that if you are finding the charts as a negative it may purely be due to Noobie Luck. With strategy the Charts are part of the strategy. For example, Getting block as a skill changes your probability on failing a block to a 1/6, whereas normally its a 1/3. Small things like that plus positioning is where the strategy comes in.

[@pan2990]

@@odallyo5861 Also the asymmetry of the teams. If you want fast squishy guys, cool. If you want big tough slow guys, cool. If you want unreliable little guys with crazy tools, cool. There is so much variety but it all hangs together and remains enjoyable. It has remained largely unchanged for nearly 40 years for good reason. The best way into this game is not to play the 11 a side as it tends towards draws and a slower pace. Sevens is much more fun to start with. Nuffle is a capricious god.

[@trayltank1015]

Good Video if you are looking for for another 2WW game I recommend “Flames of war” which is definitely cheaper than BA

[@JimCrimmins]

Enjoyed the humor and honest takes.. Great look at a spread of games that often don't get much light. I'm amused by the people who get annoyed when you don't like 'their' game enough. These are opinions, we're not all going to agree on a tier list.. And that's OK. You can still enjoy the game you like. Interesting discussion in general and brought some titles to my attention. Good stuff

[@TabletopTurtle]

Yeah it doesn't bother me too much because I know I'm not being personally attacked and I totally understand the passion for a specific game. I know my eye twitches a little when people talk shit about the things I love but that's what makes these games so special. If they appealed to everyone they would just be so bland.

[@supasnake8138]

Malifaux is amazing but what hurts them is how difficult it is to build their models. Due to the scale it was a royal pain to put them together and turned off players in our area from trying it. But from a rule set and moment to monent fun factor, its near unbeatable.

[@Hudsonbba]

Another top tier, tier list! You absolutely nail these. Really need to check out Infinity still. Highly HIGHLY suggest checking out Company of Heroes 2nd Edition if you can. Been playing with other wargamers with very similar taste to this list and it is now their’s and my number 1 board game atm and is also the best RTS to board game adaptation out there. I’d also consider it a newb friendly wargame (closer to modern board game) but also one of the hardest to master. Still waiting for physical copies but it blew us away on TTS which is mind boggling with how fiddly TTS can be in its own right for these types of games.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Thanks! I love that video game so I'll take a look. Although I always thought the Men of War game series was better.

[@davidfromkyushu6870]

I recommend Pulp Alley, a miniatures agnostic system that let you play out pulp adventures between 1-4 players with leagues of thematic characters. Its not a hard system to learn and is flexible.

[@anthonyortiz7924]

I would love to see a similar review that ranks mini wargames for kids. I'd love to get into it but there's so many choices and it seems like the high-tier ones are the hardest for kids to get into. Perhaps an addendum that assigns a difficulty or age minimum to each game will help parents who want to get their kids into it.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Honestly, I'd go to MCP. I think MCP's theme speaks to kids beautifully. Plus I find a lot of the rules are easier to scale down in complexity. But you can really do that with any game, I suppose.

[@thewarzonechronicles2319]

Great video! I mostly agree with your rating, but if you like Infinity, you should definitely try Warzone (either edition) as Infinity borrowed a lot (like A LOT) from it.

[@TabletopTurtle]

I'll have to take a look! Although I'm disappointed by the lack of cute anime girls with guns! So my army will likely need some modifications.

[@TheWarpForge]

Honestly completely disagree with BMG on the D-List. I feel where you're coming from on the edition overhaul, I know it irks me when people tell me 3E is better than 2E but that's because I don't see it as a competition on a games quality but more each edition is more apples and oranges. I have fond memories of my Freeze Crew in 2E and I also have good fun memories of playing Freeze is 3E. With that being said I don't see it as 3E completely removing the elements you liked but more changed the goal posts. I also liked the pre-game counter system but I found it more that it wasn't a board gamey mechanic but more a role-playing one, nor do I see it as taken away but more went purely into attack and defence. Where you need to role-play out the attack and defence dice. I also like the card/deck building system as I feel that each crew doesn't really play samey and plays to the machiavellian schemes of the hero's and Villains. Freeze turns the board into a winter Wonderland, Joker wishes to inflict pain and have the last laugh, Harley is about vandalising the board, Batman's about solving the clues, Bane is about modern Tac Ops and domination, Court is about assassinations, Scarecrows about spreading the fear toxin and terrfying foes, etc. There's very little I see that makes BMG "bland" or "generic". The fault I find more isn't the game itself but more KM as a whole. Community's clique, KM take goodwill for granted, accessibility issues, their rep. The list could go on. It's a shame because I feel Batman is the best ruleset for itself out there but it's held back by KM being KM.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Man I got banned on their official forums so fast and I was so polite too! The problem is I just really like that mechanic. It's what sold me.

[@vectorstrike]

I like BMG a lot. On the other hand, Knight Models isn't the best company to manage a game with such big IP. But the game is pretty fun!

[@setsunachiame]

Id recommend conquest by parabellum games for another taster into a rank a flank. Love the command deck activation as well as special abilities that makes units unique enough to be their own things. And if the rank and flank doesnt speak to you, theres the skirmish mode in first blood

[@vicioushellsing]

I wondered why youtube recommended this video to me. Its because Infinity IS the best game ever made. N4 did a good job "de nesting" the rules so rules do a much better job standing on their own instead of needing to know a rule to know a second rule. Its much smoother and definitely the best edition of the game so far.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Reading N4 was a hell of a lot more enjoyable than previous versions. I say this as a technical writer myself, I was pretty impressed with how that book is organized and how easy the rules were to understand after a single read. I'm embarrassed to say I have not even touched any of the expansion books, so I don't even know what new cool mechanics there are out there right now!

[@jonathanpickles2946]

I should give it a look. I always wanted to love Infinity from playing when the rules were on a sheet in the minis boxes. The core system seemed so promising but it always frustrated me that the end result was painful. The rules were always more and more complex when everything they added seemed to add its own special rule. I do not like the mish mash of nations background which does not help!

[@dominicparker6124]

Infinity is an amazing game, but it's so hard to play. And play well. So rules dense, not massively approachable. Very complex. I dropped out of it after years of playing it at tournaments because it just took so much energy to play for where I'm at now. It's not a casual game

[@TabletopTurtle]

@@dominicparker6124 Not in the slightest. I never recommend Infinity to people in the hobby unless they've been playing games for a long time and are okay with diving deep into a single game.

[@jonathanpickles2946]

@@dominicparker6124 That's how I feel about Warmachine, I never quite got there with Infinity but appreciate why someone might love it

[@misomiso8228]

Interesting list - MESBG should definitely be S-Tier, and I would argue that Mordheim should be A at least as it's still played today! Great vid though.

[@TabletopTurtle]

People do really love Mordheim and it has one hell of a cult following.

[@OliverOusley]

Killteam 2 is a little more like warcry rather than 40k. I'd thoroughly recommend giving it a go. I like playing it when I'm mentally fatigued from Infinity

[@PureBrawler]

Infinity was the worst TT gaming experience I ever had. Showed up for a demo game and had such displeasure 'learning' how to play properly I left early. MCP has no right being as good of a game as it is. So many hype moments and characters all feel so flavorful and unique. Warcaster Neo-Mechanika is my current S tier game that's probably never going to see a revival as it launched during the beginning of covid so was DOA.

[@TabletopTurtle]

You just had some bad teachers. I'll show you the way. My biggest fear with MCP is that like all big IP franchise games, one day it will be abandoned.

[@PureBrawler]

@@TabletopTurtle idk, the fact that the concept of cheerleaders even existing in a game breaks any balance for me. Imagine if Hulk, Ultron 2, or Malekith (pre-nerf) could use every turn for themselves? Remove the token order activation system and maybe I'll give the game a chance. I still have a lot of infinity models and stand by they are probably the most beautifully detailed miniatures in the hobby, but they're now just collecting dust aside from the occasional OPR custom army match.

[@newcomer201]

I agree with Blood Bowl. It's a miniature game i first got into and the one I play the most, but i just can't recommend it to anyone new. I only feel comfortable recommending it to Games Workshop players because the rules are that bad/convoluted.

[@giovotek]

Any list is subjective to you and your experiences, some people need to chill. Coming from a boardgame background your rankings resonated and enjoyed your takes also learned about some i had not heard about. Respect!

[@TabletopTurtle]

Thank you. Who knew GW fans were this . . . passionate? lol

[@MocnySquall]

The new kill team is absolutly amazing game. It has nothing to do with the old kill team. I honestly cant beleave that gw was able to make a good game like that.

[@TabletopTurtle]

I'll have a look some day, promise.

[@robryan5478]

Malifaux and Infinity at S Tier? This guy knows his stuff!

[@TabletopTurtle]

Damn right!

[@ubrot7995]

Maybe you should not put games into these lists that you haven't played? Kill Team 2021/2nd Edition is a completely different game to 2018/1st Edition. Like so different there is very few things they have in common. Kill Team right now is not litte 40k like the previous edition was and only people who haven't played it still keep that wrong belief alive. I would even argue that current Kill Team is one of the best games GW puts out right behind Blood Bowl. Both games dominate my local GW Store with the amount of games played by regulars there, the only game that gets played slightly more is 40k and only because most of these guys have had their armies for years and still want to play them, all whilst complaining about the current edition rules a lot.

[@anab0lic]

@@ubrot7995 none of gws game are above c tier, this becomes very clear when you branch out and play better miniature games.

[@TabletopTurtle]

I don't think it's unfair to put those games on the list, regardless of how extensive the rules edition changes are, especially when I explicitly state the version I played. I have not played the latest Kill Team but I have seen list of changes and I'll tell you this, I have not seen a single change that makes Kill Team stand out to me as a unique and interesting game that's doing something creative or pushing boundaries in any meaningful way. That's important to me.

[@ubrot7995]

@@anab0lic Factually wrong, you are hating on gw for the sake of hating. There is plenty of good other games, that doesn't mean all gw games are just c-tier.

[@ubrot7995]

@@TabletopTurtle Reading a list of rules means very little, many games on your list don't read very interesting or unique in themself. Most of the time what gets people into a game and shows how interesting it is, is how it feels to play. You could have at least watched like one battle report to make up your mind about it. But you didn't, instead you spouted outdated infos and turned your list into an outdated tier list. This is like basing how high 40k/AOS/Bolt Action and many other games are on their first editions. It just means your list doesn't inform anyone because the info is already outdated.

[@anab0lic]

@@ubrot7995 I'm not 'hating for the sake of hating....' I actually started my miniature gaming journey with GW games and enjoyed them at the time. Then I branched out and tried many of the other games out there and saw just how lacking GW's offerings are in comparison I suggest you do the same. Their games bore me now, there isn't the level of turn to turn thinkiness and interesting problems to solve that other games provide. Which in turn creates a much deeper, richer, tactical and strategic experience to explore and provides more replayability without things getting repetitive and stale. GW's game design hasn't evolved much since i was a kid first playing their games in the 90's... that just doesn't cut it for me anymore.

[@worm1618]

If you're a fan of Moonstone, then you should give Relicblade a try. It has that same whimsical theme and is easy to teach without feeling samey-same. A lot of people call it their "fun skirmish game."

[@supasnake8138]

Age of Sigmar is the best of GW imo. The miniature design is wild and the rules are fun. But if I had people who would play Malifaux, Infinity, of Marvel, id play that instead.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Yeah, I'm losing some of the people I play those games with to children and wives, lol

[@Dawings21]

I could never put my finger on why I just can't get into Infinity, but I think you kind of summed it up. After a game I feel so drained, but not in a good way. I feel like I just got off a 10 hour shift and need to crash somewhere. It's a shame, because as someone who hates 40k's tendency to expect losses before you even get your first turn and as someone that really loves dense boards that play to Infinity's strength, I just never end a game of Infinity satisfied. Even on hard fought wins I just kinda feel my eyes glaze over.

[@TabletopTurtle]

haha I mean that's not an unfair assessment of Infinity. Maybe I've played so much now that I don't really have that issue and most games always seem to be under two hours, which is nice.

[@albertoguerreromartinez3867]

My top 3 games: Malifaux, Asoiaf, Warmachine. Another favourites to make a top 10: Infinity, Aristeia, Saga, Dropzone commander, Deadzone, Mesbg, Kill team.

[@TabletopTurtle]

That's a solid variety of games in that list! Always good to get a little bit of everything!

[@w0197]

Thanks for the video! I love to see games other than Warhammer getting love. I would recommend One Page Rules, extremely simplified version of warhammer, very beer and pretzels. Also love games from Snarling Badger Games, specifically Space Station Zero and Deth Wizards.

[@ondrez5114]

Agree with Infinity. The gameplay feels so "alive" when the action unfolds on the table. Hiding behind the corner, sneaking my camouflaged guys, keeping my termo-camo guys invisible ready to strike..

[@TabletopTurtle]

Whenever I play Ariadna and I have Van Zant, I always play Back in Black before I make his airborne reveal. My friend hates me.

[@donaldhavasy2356]

Kill team getting a low C/D. Dayum

[@TabletopTurtle]

Savage!

[@mikefish1124]

@donaldhavasy2356 it's an accurate assessment

[@mccallosone4903]

bought gaslands now. excited to try

[@TabletopTurtle]

Did you design your own cars yet?

[@OGDamnnation]

Mordheim and frostgrave is kinda brother sister where the older brother mordheim gets the old used car that's reliable where as the little sister frostgrave gets the new car. The problem with bushido is if it doesn't have a player base in your area you're not going to be playing it as often. Warmachine/Horde used to be in the beginning a scrimmage game

[@TabletopTurtle]

It's true. We are really just at the whim of whatever the current game meta is in our respective areas and that stinks.

[@newcomer201]

This is Not a Test is worth a try! Its a cool post apocalyptic skirmish game!

[@alexeybychenkov3659]

I think that 40k is more about the hobby part of collecting, assembling and painting. Because this is what holds players in GW's grip, rather than a gameplay itself. I have a very big community of 40k in my town, but i barely see people playing it. I am myself play this game roughly once a month or two although i have 2 whole armies 4000 points each. And those who play competitive 40k are very different persons to just hobbiests who collect and play time to time. But i have to concider that the game is very deep. It was way deeper for prior edition GW just had to cut off a good chunk of game rules and mechanics for the 10th just so the newcomers could get into the system. The lore is also what make most people love this game. You friend was very right about "the whole different army" thing because they are different and not in like some minor parts of the gameplay, but the whole experience.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Yeah, I do love the hobby aspect of mini gaming more than anything. I like seeing what's coming out next or what's new on the shelves.

[@storploin3860]

You sound like me about a year ago - Warhammer minis are great but the game not really being that big of a thing for me. Then I discovered OnePageRules, and ho boy did I start playing a lot of games. Try checking it out - the core rules are free and literally 1 page (front+back) long, there's a skirmish or mass scale version for both fantasy and scifi (they're mutually compatible though, funny enough). Worth trying out with a buddy and seeing if you find it more fun.

[@theholyemu3716]

If I remember correctly there are rules for the Germans in bolt action that do make troops more afraid of tigers than a Sherman

[@TabletopTurtle]

Mostly just an example to vent how much I dislike a lot of the vehicles not having much in game personality

[@theholyemu3716]

@@TabletopTurtlefair enough

[@damienc7303]

“Infinity is the best game ever made”, I agree with that. I only tried about ten miniature games and this is the only one where everything is almost perfect: fluff is insanely good, minis look great and the rules are incredibly good. I have a hard time staying focused on anything, but I never got bored ONCE with Infinity. I think people who played any tactical video game like xcom can get an easy grasp of the game mechanics, cause it really feels like it. I believe the action series to be released soon will bump up the popularity of the game. Also, I’m curious to see how you’d rank “warcrow”, the new Corvus Belli medfan skirmish game… Great video. Such efforts were made to try all these games. I’m impressed.

[@S0nyb1ack]

I haven't (yet) finished the video, but from the timestamps I see I might be able to toss a few more suggestions your way ;) Firstly: this one is extremely light! So beware - this one will be devisive for "weight" alone, it is a "beer and pretzel game", BUT it also plays in 20 - 30 minutes. The doomed (from osprey). Mini agnostic kitbashers heaven ;) Great system to generate missions (random mission + random big monster attacking both sides silmultaniously), though it does shine a bit more in campaign play in my opinion. Amazing into game for people who don't know wargames - also a unique movement system with no measuring. Second: might not be your jam, since you don't enjoy rank and flank - but I had a really greattmie playing Conquest: Last argument of kings. It also has a smaller "sibling" COnquest: First blood, which is closer to skirmish size, if the big rank and flank game would be too much to try out :)

[@ultraego752]

I put shatterpoint at a d because I patiently waited for new legion announcements and shatterpoint drops with half the stuff I've wanted in legion lol. So d rank for salt

[@duacot6633]

Not covering Zombicide? Would be curious to see how the different eras are viewed; modern, high fantasy, wild west.

[@TabletopTurtle]

I'm actually not a big fan of Zombicide. I'd say the Marvel one and the second Black Plague one are my favorites; however, they are still fairly simple and have a lot of the same issues I don't like with the franchise. But that being said, my friends really do enjoy the game!

[@duacot6633]

@@TabletopTurtle Does that also apply to the 2nd edition rules? In my experience any group I've gamed with have usually made house rules of one sort or another.