Double Trouble 6: Codex

[@Boozamn]

Melody: "That's the same word, they both use the word haste." TOM : "Weeellllll, I think it might be quick in Magic..." Melody: Kinda shrugs while looking down & to the side. Ohhhhh to know you're right but be battling the brick wall that is Tom Vasel with his opinions, haha! Great segment y'all, love seeing a double perspective on something, keep 'em coming!

[@Gutock]

I really like the first-bump thing by Melody at the end. Signature sign-off! The game looks awesome, thank you for the overview!

[@SeeJayMac]

Contrary to some of the folks here, I actually really dig the art style on most of the cards. Okay, so maybe the rainbow panda card is a little over the top for me. But for the most part it's a really clean, cartoony style with a lot of fun, creative ideas: ninja racoons, fiery pirate ships, epic tree ents, psionic spaceships. Yeah it's cartoony, but if you dig that kind of thing, it's really well done. If you dislike the front of the box, as some have said, the back of the box is truly gorgeous. That's how I'll display mine for sure. See: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYiqnomYnc2ki9k#t=15m05s Overall, I love the game. I dig Sirlin's design style. I cannot wait to get my copy.

[@defenstrator4660]

See I saw the rainbow panda card and was in. What can be more awesome than that?

[@teslavoltagames3208]

Melody is getting better and better with stage presence with each video. Good job!

[@dominiccasts]

Correction for 8:12. Heroes are only required to play spells/magic (either matching colour or matching type). Everything else (units, upgrades, etc.) can be played without a hero, instead they generally need their matching tech structure in play (except for Tech 0).

[@drorios8864]

Not true. Why do you think each card is labeled according to the type of magic it is? That would be too easy. Also there's a reason why it is recommended to play with 1 hero starting off. Tom is correct. Also that is why you chose the type of magic you want to play as you tech up

[@dominiccasts]

@@drorios8864 How is that contradicting what I had written 6 years ago. You do indeed choose the spells that are going to be in your deck during the tech step at the end of turn/during your opponent's turn, but you don't need to have a Tech 2 building and the associated specialization selected to play spells, and you don't need the hero with the same specialization in play to play Tech 2/3 units, upgrades, and buildings. I think there's some confusion between "have the hero in your set of 3" and "have the hero currently in play", the former is just a consequence of the 3 specializations you picked before the game, while the latter is an in-game state that changes when you summon your hero for 2 gold or they die and return to the command zone.

[@StefanLopuszanski]

To those who don't know, this game was originally designed as a "WarCraft 3 card game." It has almost everything around that with the 3 heroes (1 per tech level), workers, improvements, and more. If you think about it that way everything really makes sense.

[@TheNickBasso]

Stefan Lopuszanski yeah as soon as I heard about the three specs for every color I thought about Warcraft :)

[@Zejety]

I can confirm that choosing the 2 cards to add to your deck is the most overwhelming part of the game in the beginning but it gets a lot faster when you get used to your cards and develop a baseline strategy. For me, the hardest part of the game is figuring out when and what to attack and how much defense my opponent is likely to be able to deal with. The patrol zone bonuses make it so that mindlessly attacking isn't the best choice even with aggro decks.

[@alextfish]

The patrol zone has a heck of a lot of subtleties to it. But for me the most tricky decision is when to go down to 2 cards in hand (e.g. starting at 5, if you play 2 cards and make 1 worker) - because that means you're only drawing 4 new cards, slowing down your deck cycling, making it longer till you see your teched cards... and next turn if you just play 1 card and make 1 worker you're still stuck at 4 (unless the opponent killed your Technician). Occasionally it's worth skipping a worker, for the sake of deck cycling... but that's a big economic risk too... There's a lot of subtlety just to those core game mechanics.

[@CarpeGuitarrem]

Super-cool! I love Codex, personally, so I'm glad you took a shine to a number of aspects. Teching can definitely take some time, as you consider your plans and how quickly you're getting your cards and such. I don't remember if the rulebook says so, but you actually can and should be teching cards in during your opponent's turn. The game's designed to require a minimum of input from you on your turn for that reason--so you don't have to make any strategic decisions and can focus on figuring out what you're going to tech.

[@crono303]

I really like the game, too, but the thing my wife and I have run into is there are so many things you can do during the "main phase" that's it's easy to forget something (like hiring a worker... I've done that a lot). I almost wish that it was broken up into different parts like Summoner Wars, with a summon phase, event phase, moving and then attacking, but I know that wouldn't work as well with Codex. Do you have a "suggested" order we should follow while we're getting used to the game still?

[@CarpeGuitarrem]

William Doran: While you can technically do them in any order, you could break a Main Phase down into *Worker -> Summon -> Spells/Abilities -> Attacks -> Patrol*. The only thing to remember is that you _can_ play spells in between attacks. Sometimes that's really important, and it's something to eventually get used to. Following the order above is a good start, though. (For instance, you might want to attack with a strong unit, then use *Chaos Mirror (Anarchy spell)* to swap its attack with a weak unit that belongs to you, effectively getting to re-use the unit! But that's kinda fiddly/advanced use of spells, so you might not want to get into that at first.) Workering as the first part of every turn is a good idea, though, and I don't think I've ever seen a player not do it that way. You can pretty safely have a "worker" phase right before you do all your main actions.

[@lylerosen1664]

I've only ever played this with my sister (though we've played at least 30 games), but I would disagree with you saying that everyone workers every turn. There are definitely in my opinion points when rushing with red or black that going straight for the kill can be worth it over workering. Though yes if you're playing a defense oriented faction like blue or green workering is definitely advisable.

[@CarpeGuitarrem]

Lyle Rosen: That's very true! You'll often hit a "tipping point" where it's time to stop workering and starting to rush, and part of playing well is knowing when to flip that switch. That said, it's generally always a good idea to keep workering every turn for at least the first 4-5 turns, if not longer. Getting access to Tech II (and two heroes) is pretty important for any spec.

[@wilhelmbackhaus4931]

There are many unique features of the game Tom didn't really explained. For example, since it's a deck building game, you can play the same spell (sorcery) card over and over again, unlike Magic. Also, unlike most deck building games, you discard cards face-down, which means your opponent doesn't know what cards you put in your deck untill you use them.

[@SeeJayMac]

Yeah. The fact that your played or destroyed cards go back into your deck is really unique. There is no graveyard.

[@osunievogden1145]

like Dominion, or big book of madness, or any modern deckbuilder.

[@SeeJayMac]

The unique part is bringing those deck-building elements to a combat-heavy card game.

[@mollywantshugs5944]

The thing about no graveyard; the black deck actually has a building called “graveyard.” It can hold a dead unit to prevent it from cycling for control purposes, though it only holds one at a time. Not to argue, just thought your wording was ironic.

[@pacificateur1976]

Hello from Russia! The domestic publisher will soon localize this game in Russia. I watched with the subtitles of this cool movie. I recently started learning English. when I learn, then I'll watch all the videos on this channel. Thank you for the video! Melody is very sweet, especially when smiling ^^

[@007design]

nice review. melody seemed to contribute quite a bit. she sounds like a formidable opponent. really liking this series of videos, thank you.

[@NeoGenMike]

Tom is training Melody to take him over, Sith style. Right Tom?

[@SeeJayMac]

They both look pretty friendly. I'd say she's his Padwan.

[@NeoGenMike]

***** I like to assume Vader and his Palps were chummy once in a while.

[@SeeJayMac]

Heh, well, he did act as a father figure to the lad, so maybe eh? Also, I bet these two are really vicious towards each other in competitive games.

[@NeoGenMike]

***** Many tables were flipped off-screen.

[@Robubie]

Her last act before she takes over the dice tower is to destroy him.

[@olanmills64]

Regarding the comparison to Magic, one aspect that I appreciate about Codex is that it's not a collectible game. Any such game like Magic, Dice Masters, etc, I immediately lose interest in because I don't want to deal with the ever expanding collectibility. That's not a criticism of those games, it's just not for me. So this could appeal to many people who might like Magic if it wasn't for Magic's continuously expanding collectibility. On a related note, Tom said that there's no more cards coming. Did Sirlin Games really say that? I thought what they really said is that the game is not collectible. That is, they could potentially release new cards/factions in the future, but you'll buy them as a complete set. You won't buy them in random packs and there won't be "rare" cards etc, like Magic. etc.

[@JulianSAirstriker]

Basically yes, however you can completely eliminate the collectible part of the game, if you wish. Please check out Magic the Gathering Anthology box set. This is a collection of ready duel decks, which are really balanced if played against each other and allow really different game styles. I've bought this to play with friends in the company and it's great. Load of fun without "boring" and expensive deck building stuff. And nobody complains regarding having a weak deck. Just take out of the box and play. Treat it as a kind of board game. Cheers.

[@DiscoCokkroach]

Melody's face at 17:20

[@JimmySquiky]

Ok I'm sold I want the deluxe edition *-*

[@fishizer]

Need to see a play through of this.

[@AlexKrasnyPrime]

Cant wait to get my copy.

[@davidwayneflowers]

He said "tap". Mail a check to Wizards of the Coast...

[@Draygarth]

Look what you did Vasel... now I've spent all my extra money.

[@scholtzovsvet5724]

Well when you take 3 planeswalkers and adjust lands like workers and prepare the spellbook you have a great magic variant ;-)

[@way9689]

will this ever be sold on cool stuff? or is this solely a kickstarter game?

[@KingOfNormans]

Doesn't the fact that you choose your heroes, cards, etc., all available to you, lead to dominant strategies pretty fast?

[@mollywantshugs5944]

Not at all. The focus is on counterplay and trying to adapt to the opponent’s strategy. There wouldn’t really be any game if you couldn’t decide your strategy to suit the game state. That’s why your tech choices are secret: so the opponent has to anticipate deck building directions without knowing for sure what you’re doing.

[@sebastiang.5032]

The game looks fine, the logo and box cover are horrendous... O.o

[@defenstrator4660]

What is horrendous about it? It gets the point across. It doesn't look bad. What is it you don't like?

[@gnomechompsky4996]

Cool review!

[@sander5938]

I noticed it says 2-5 players. How does it play with 3-5?

[@alextfish]

4 players is a Two-Headed Giant Dragon mode, nearly identical to MtG's 2HG, with simultaneous turns. It's great for two experienced players to teach two new players, as long as the new players have a fair tolerance for a big complex board state. Just like Magic's 2HG, it's a little bit longer than a 2-player duel but faster than 4-player free-for-all would be, and has board states a bit more complex than 2-player but less complex than 4-player free-for-all would be. Codex does also have a free-for-all mode for 3-5 players. It's pretty wacky and I've never actually tried it, so I can't say how well it works.

[@sirlingames4109]

Big free-for-all mode is pretty fun and the cards themselves are designed with FFA in mind. Like Black's Sacrifice the Weak card doesn't say "Both players sacrifice their lowest Tech unit", it says "All players" instead. Things like that. Great strides were made to make sure that you didn't have to struggle to figure out rules for large multiplayer. Of course the game has been balanced on a competitive level for 1 vs. 1, but in multiplayer there are different heroes, strategies and cards that see more play, so it changes up the dynamic of gameplay a lot by adding more players!

[@mormengil]

Damn, how old is Melody now? She is almost as tall as Tom. The game sounds interesting, but I do not know if there is room for it between mage wars, summoner wars, mtg and traditional deck builders. Especially since it is a fixed pool of cards, I suspect it will get old soon.

[@clannatioy1732]

I was a playtester for the game so played it many times with the same pool of cards and it hasn't gotten old yet. Codex is a game where your in game decisions matter a ton compared to a lot of other deck construction games where a lot (most?) of the skill/strategy/planning/choices come before the game where you're building your deck. There is so much room for player growth and skill with the set of cards that are available now that I'd be surprised if it got old (especially if it got old soon). If you enjoy this type of game and you have at least one opponent that wants to get good at the game as well you should be fine.

[@alextfish]

I'm a Magic player. I have over 100 MtG decks (literally). Most of them I've played between 5 and 10 times. I got into Codex maybe 6 months ago, and have played at least 60 games of Codex already, and there's still so much more to explore, so much skill I can tell I still have to learn, so many more combos and cards I haven't tried yet, or cards I've tried but not succeeded with, or cards I have succeeded with against a green opponent but would be completely different against a red one... and so on. Codex is a game with a *lot* of depth to it. My MtG collection probably has more play to it than Codex, but that's maybe 8000 cards, thousands of dollars worth of MtG compared to... well, my Codex set was $30 for the print-and-play, which is the same cards as the $200 Deluxe set Tom was talking about. Codex is very good value :)

[@mollywantshugs5944]

The difference lies in that while magic decks only do one thing extremely well, Codex decks have many strategies, taking the focus away from the meta and onto the actual game itself. It’s less like a Magic deck and more like a race in Warcraft or a character in a fighting game: You have a complete toolkit so you can play the same deck for years and years while still doing new stuff with it.

[@DiscoCokkroach]

For anyone who wants to try Codex right away and has some extra TCG cards and sleeves: You can get a free PnP version of the Starter Set for free from Sirlin Games' website: sirlingames.com/product/#/4291444164/codex-starter-set (at least it's free at time of writing, but Sirlin tends to leave the "beginner" sets of the PnP versions of his games for free, like Yomi Round 1)

[@lorentsenjr]

I KNOW HOW TO FIGHT THAT PORCUPINE! HIllarious

[@sirlingames4109]

Porcupine is INSANE. One of the best blockers in the game, and built into a hyper-aggressive Tech II line!

[@madspunky]

Is it better than Puzzle Strike? Wow...

[@richardscales9560]

subjective I know but the whole look/visual design of this game puts me off.

[@kradrol]

I have not played this game, but I can tell you from my many years of playing magic the gathering that purple does not play with magic at all.

[@alextfish]

Codex's purple is the time mages - Past, Present and Future - which is stolen from MtG's blue. The ninjas in Codex are white, also stolen from MtG's blue. Codex's green Growth spec is merfolk and polymorph effects, also stolen from MtG's blue. It's almost like MtG's blue has a bit too much of the colour pie :P Codex's blue is the rest of MtG's blue - control, stalling, mind control, and illusions. Codex's red and black are exactly the same as in MtG, and the rest of Codex green and white are basically the same as in MtG.

[@kradrol]

Alex Churchill and the award for "completely missed the point" goes to.. also, if you are saying blue is time travel then clearly you haven't play enough blue. also, if you say that ninjas are "stolen" from magic the gathering, and not actual history, then you are just looking for ways to compare this to magic. next you are going to tell me that the vampires in the card game vampire the masquerade were stolen from baron sanger.

[@alextfish]

Okay, I guess it's quite possible I missed your point, because I have no idea what "purple does not play with magic at all" is actually supposed to mean. I assumed you meant there's no colour purple in Magic, which is true (despite persistent rumours ;) ). But I also think you missed my point. I was merely saying there are lots of things encompassed within blue in MtG which are found in other colours in Codex, which is noticeable because almost everything else is in exactly the same colour in Codex as it was in MtG. If you're looking for time manipulation cards in MtG, they'll be found overwhelmingly in blue. If you're looking for ninjas in MtG, they'll be found mainly in blue (okay, and black). But Codex takes those out of blue and puts them in different colours, while still finding plenty to fill its blue cards with. I'm purely talking about how Codex repartitions the Magic: the Gathering colour pie - or rather, for the most part it doesn't.

[@kradrol]

Alex Churchill there was a typo in my original post. it should read "purple does not play like magic" mean there is no purple in magic to compare purple to.

[@guksungan1267]

Look up fading and suspend in magic the gathering card search. Codex pretty much copied them along with other MTG keywords. These were mechanics of really old sets so that's why you may have not seen it.

[@DarthEd77]

It does seems like a fantastic variation on the Magic the Gathering style of game, but the art direction on this production is very lacking. The design of the logo and the boards are just horrendously bad, and the card art is "just ok". I guess you just have to look past that stuff and concentrate on the gameplay. Ashes of the Phoenixborn is far more attractive. Tom, have you and Melody played the new Ashes decks?

[@BogartFace]

The fact you don't need to follow the latest decks/expansions is already a HUGE plus for Codex. There is no barrier of entry for new players, the game has a ton of content without feeling bloated, the price is ridiculous compared to other games filling the same niche. As for the gameplay, this game is in an entirely different league from all the card games on the market at the moment.

[@jmw23]

I agree on the card art. I don't care for the "silly" cards like Nautical Dog, etc. That said, the style is fairly generic computer generated fantasy stuff, which neither adds nor detracts from the game for me. I wish the style had more closely followed Yomi, another of Sirlin's games.

[@SeeJayMac]

Yeah, that's super fair. Sirlin games has a far smaller budget than any of the other companies out there. What I never really got is that Codex's art direction is really similar to his other games: Puzzle Strike, Flash Duel, etc. I don't recall people complaining about the art style there. I suppose it has much to do with what people expect the art style of a card game to be.

[@olanmills64]

I really like the silly stuff

[@defenstrator4660]

I rather like the card art. It's thematic. And I like the irreverent humour of it. Games are supposed to be fun after all.

[@wroot_lt]

Don't know. Epic seemed too simpified, this one and Mage Wars looks to "complified" and fiddly. I just want a mechanism for Magic to make your starting hand better (draft, pre-select) etc. to make it less random. And i don't like art in the Sirlin games that much.

[@wroot_lt]

Glareness Galore :D

[@scholtzovsvet5724]

Take magic add a bunch of non important and boring mechanics and you have it... A great new game. Sorry Tom but check the part where you explains the rules... Hmmm dont you really explain how to play magic. I really hope that the age of magic hybrids is over.

[@MasterdoMagic]

They are getting better though! Codex and Allegiance are amazing. Super fun twists and since they are familiar, learning them and getting good at them happens fairly quickly. There are plenty of bad hybrids and clones out there, but those 2 for example are such good fun, I hope they keep designing good games, based on Magic or not.

[@adamireland1627]

what an ugly game lol the cards look alright but also looks fun enough to look past that