TIME Stories Revolution: The Hadal Project Review - with The Dice Tower

[@dearmrdw]

Guys, this is some of the best overviews of any games I have seen in video form. You have to name this format with 4 of you talking about games - and frankly, this looks like the next BIG step for Dice Tower. I didn't expect to say this, but I'm increasing my pledge on Kickstarter now.

[@kevinbhieey9188]

Basically what I was going to write. I tuned in because I was interested in the new phase of TIME Stories and I was pleasantly surprised to see four people ready to talk about it. Give it a name - Tower Talk! - and switch Tom and Roy. Tom looks like Godzilla sitting down for dinner with the members of the Lollipop Guild. Besides, Tom and Zee are the old guard, so they should be front and center. Make the noobs earn their spot!

[@lexmartel]

I really love this format!, the discussion were really interesting! Hope you got more reviews like that in the future!

[@rahdo]

Roy, Tom, etc... any chance you could put a spoiler warning on and say what you got stuck on? we played through the whole thing and didn't run any rules issues at all (except the definition of "stow: return the card where it came from", was hidden in the rulebook a little bit)

[@thedicetower]

I'll email you

[@twilightparallax]

Great review/discussion. Having four people at the table brings about different perspectives. Keep this format for, let's say, highly anticipated AAA boardgames. A shame TS 2.0 was a disappointment. I expected more.

[@JasperHayward]

Yes please!

[@aj_8009]

I love the format with the four of you, more like this please! As another commenter said, I would love to see this format named as a spiritual successor to Miami Dice

[@AJ-nc4vr]

This format works. Like iiiiiit. :D

[@christopherdesmond7511]

Yes, I would agree. There's no replacing Sam, but I think Mike and Roy are great additions to the D.T. team. Gotta be open to change, and this one works for me.

[@rk2331]

I’ve never owned a game that fell from grace as quickly as Time Stories. I loved the Asylum case that came with the core, and then it basically fell off a cliff after that for me. I sold it off along with 5 expansions (2 of which I never even opened because I had no desire to continue on with it) and have zero regrets.

[@rk2331]

Shawn Hilliard the forced replays were the ultimate killer. It was infuriating to spend a bunch of time units chasing red herrings, and then be forced to start over. We’d do exactly what Zee mentioned in this video, and say “well, we’re starting over, but picking up where we left off” and just guesstimate a fair amount of starting time units. We were ultimately only enjoying the story at that point, so we stopped caring about adhering closely to the rules. That’s when I decided it was no longer the game for me, and sold it off.

[@ishoottheyscore8970]

@@rk2331 - That was something that Shut Up and Sit Down called out in the first episode of the original, but I guess how obtrusive they felt would be different for each reviewer, so some people were less bothered by them. I'll be honest, I hate the idea of doing something iterative for 'fun'...

[@ironwolf56]

TIME Stories is like the Matrix trilogy of board games.

[@astrophe-cat]

Wasn't this what Tantrum House initially developed as an expansion to the initial Time Stories? I wonder if transforming it into the new system did it injustice...

[@raffaeledigiovannibezzi427]

Marcy was glorious

[@nagairosales]

i like these new two characters. They make me not miss Sam Healey, althouth he is great. Keep going!

[@redsilence980]

I had exactly two issues with TIME Stories, but they were both... game breaking, and both were kind of mentioned in the video. First, there were puzzles that you can very easily miss, meaning you can collect items, information about solving them, but didn't realize there is a puzzle to solve in the first place. The second is the absolute impossibility to "solve" a case in the first (few) run(s). I mean, it sure is "technically" possible to do that, but it would require some out-of-this-earth luck, extremely aware group, etc., etc. The way the game is structured, even with very efficient "play", it would require at least 3-4 runs for all practical intends and purposes to crack a case. If something goes wrong or the dice hate you the number of runs becomes much, much higher. I don't expect the game to be a walk in the park, but I expect at least some realistic possibility of solving a case in the first run. Ok, it was "designed" this way, but this doesn't mean the design is good. To me, it just artificially increases playtime and creates the illusion of replayability.

[@MrGourd]

Totally agree. With my gaming group, we quickly house ruled and stopped "resetting" after 2 play throughs. Especially since it was sometimes really hard to know if you were wasting time units chasing red herrings or not, and cleaning up and putting back cards and components was getting so bothersome.

[@necrotoaster94]

Good discussion. I also agree on branding the "four person round table" going forward as others suggest below.

[@AndreWDYounitedRevolution]

it took 2 people to make up for Sam‘s leaving 😎

[@Phyrexious]

Dude, a little harch with the fat jokes there..

[@AndreWDYounitedRevolution]

Phyrexious didn‘t even mean it like dat. I love Sam

[@ishoottheyscore8970]

Are you going to create branding for when a group of you review a game? It seems odd that that this wasn't termed a Miami Dice episode, but I get dropping that name as it was very much Tom + Sam, so this has little continuity. I think the format works well, especially for a title gets very different reactions from you all, so is there a chance that you do a Miami Dice type of branding for this? The Tower of Judgement?

[@JasonSmithPsychedelicTherapist]

Great review guys, loved it. I love TIME STORIES, and it's always frustrating when things don't work out. Maybe they'll watch this review, retrench, and figure it out.

[@austinmontgomery9883]

Any suggestions on a game that will satisfy our groups love for this series? Haven’t tried the blue cycle. But played all the white cycles. Have had a void since we stopped playing.

[@hannesvoites4443]

Disagree with 11:12 (thematic sense in balance of power when striking). Excessive power, when striking, risks 1) telegraphing, 2) accuracy, 3) dealt damage likelihood (punches in bunches smooth out the curve), 4) balance, 5) guard recovery delay, 6) energy waste and 7) self-injury.

[@FranzBinder20]

Nice to see you becoming regular participants in front of the camera, Roy and Mike!

[@nachtschwarmer1375]

Really nice review with great thoughts and conversation throughout. When it comes to Hadal Project, I have to quote Han Solo: I had a bad feeling about this.

[@jeefunk8833]

We have been through the scenario and thought that it was the best one since Asylum (if we can compare to the old Time Stories) The machanics works well and no (useless) rerun after rerun, it’s a fun storytelling. They get rid of the majority of the flaws of the 1st generation. If you liked the old scenarios, you should give it a try.

[@Voreten]

I liked them, but not enough to spend money on them.

[@a1investigations433]

The difference in opinions between you guys, Bryan Drake, and Rahdo is interestingly considerable. I think I'll still try it out as I want it to work, but the possible flaws discussed here are concerning.

[@3Xero3]

I just watched this review earlier this morning, then played the game for the first time later in the afternoon. Personally, I agree with several points that they have made, but generally it sounds like I had a much better experience with the game than the Dice Tower guys have. For the downside, I did find a few moments of confusing interactions with some of the cards and the rules. Kinda feeling like we made several mistakes... but they were fairly balanced both in our favor and against us so I'm ok with it for now. The modifier cards didn't bother me as much, but I've also been playing a lot of Arkham Horror the card game lately which uses a similar mechanic with the chaos tokens. Mixed emotions, if possible the replay value felt even less than the original but the redundancy is reduced as well. Yes, you don't need to reset the game completely multiple times, but this change requires the game to be more streamlined and less of a sandbox (and dare I say maybe even easier?). You can revisit old locations.... but you are pretty severely punished for it. On the upside I liked that the game felt quicker and less chunky than the original. You no longer need to bring the base game for everything (this is so awesome) and the game is no longer confined to the constraints of the board. The theme and story were right on brand for what I expected. If you liked the earlier T.I.M.E. Stories I think you will like this one.

[@larrysigmon2582]

I've never played TIME Stories. If I want to try one, now in 2021, which one should I play?

[@oviaelectronica]

Glad to see Mike and Roy join in here, works really well!

[@thomasromanelli2561]

Appreciate the new format with the four of you discussing what worked and didn't: in this case, the consensus appears to be that the Blue Season is off to a rocky start. Having said that, I did enjoy the OS (once we house-ruled a couple of things to avoid a fun-leaching iterative marathon) and will likely try the Hadal Project. I would be more curious as to how the character advancement system works across the planned scenarios for the current season (I guess that aspect wasn't played or addressed here). Will that be done in a future segment?

[@williamgarcia-medina9989]

I’m loving the developing vibe in this quartet.

[@OmegaDestroyer99]

After how bad TIME Stories fell apart, this is a hard pass.

[@jantoredidriksen4104]

Our group loves the game.

[@misomiso8228]

Is there a playthrough of this one?

[@Kogakaze]

Mike DiLisio had some good inputs. Well put points.

[@ianoble]

Where does Escape Tales fall with Adventure Games and the EXIT/Unlock?

[@arcubal]

Mike describes perfectly the biggest story-mechanical problem of games nowadays: "When the mechanics get in the way of a great story you have a problem." I enjoyed house ruling the original T.I.M.E. Stories so that I could enjoy the stories (and do so with story-driven games across the board) so, I plan on doing the same here. It's a shame that the designers couldn't get a waterproof set of rules to synergize with the story but hey, that leaves more "hobby fun tinkering" for gamers like me to figure out.

[@chuck00x]

I'm going to give this one a chance, but I'd also like to see what the first set MADE FOR the Revolution series looks like. The fact that this one was made for the "white" series makes me wonder how well it translates.

[@scottdavis2213]

I definitely understand not going out of your way to play any new scenarios if I'm in there shoes because they get so many games sent their way. That said, I would hope if someone they trusted highly reviewed a future scenario they would be open to giving it a shot. The thing about TIME Stories is that it is essentially an anthology. The stories, characters and in most cases mechanics are different each time, so if you hate one, you could love the next. I've only played 4 of the white series but, while they aren't perfect, I definitely like the mystery nature of unfolding the events and details. I love the escape room-style games as well, but they don't have nearly the theme the TIME Stories brings to the table. All that said, it was another well thought out review

[@hanseathl]

I lost a considerable amount of money with Time Stories. I gladly sold it off for about 100€ but paid a lot more (with all the modules - some unplayed). I do not mind that the monetary value of games decreases over time as long as I got my plays and enjoyment out of it. But that was not the case with TS. After listening to you guys I am even less willing to throw another coin down the drain while there are so many great games out there.

[@Koriffel]

Experience box answers all the question about bigger story between scenarios. I kinda liked the way it worked when I played with it

[@tomvg87]

Does Experience include story elements or is it just XP, player powers and such that you can unlock?

[@Koriffel]

Tom VG it’s a mixture of both. You definitely don’t need it to enjoy the scenarios stand-alone, but if you’re sure you want to play through them all, I’d recommend it. In case you’ll get bored with a story, you can just use RPG elements of it and skip reading.

[@Myrph]

From the sounds of it I probably won't pick up Hadal Project. I definitely didn't have as many issues with the White Box series as you guys did, but its disappointing to hear that there were still so many issues with this first release in the new wave of games. This review did leave me with a pretty major question though, and that is how many of the issues you encountered with the way this game played out were likely a direct result of it originally being a Time Stories 1.0 expansion and being poorly adapted into the TS2.0 system? Certainly the complaint about clues and items being missable sounds like it would tie into this, which makes me wonder if the next story in TS2, which I would assume was designed from the ground up for the new system, might have avoided many of those kinds of issues.

[@jameslaine2472]

I was given this game last week. I've never heard of time stories before. Opened the box, un-wrapepd the cards (why no card boxes or bags for re-packing), and punched out all the cardboard pieces as I do with every new game I've ever purchased. Then started reading the rules only to find out that the cardboard pieces should not be punched out yet. Like, why? Spent an hour with 3 others trying to figure out how to play it, and gave up. Telepathy, How's that supposed to work? first location cards had different text inside differently shaded boxes, that may or may not require the player to have an item (unclear). For example, my character was a pilot, and I found something that could be piloted, but the card said "only someone with a license can pilot this", ok, does my pilot character have that by default, or is that some object I need to find first? Nothing was making any sense and we all had time limits and it felt like this game would be far longer than other games we had nearby (the game box did not indicate any play time estimate), so we just gave up on it.

[@williamgarcia-medina9989]

Great review!

[@MrGourd]

I'm know I'm in the minority, but I feel like the 4 man review is a little too long. This felt more like a round table discussion. I love the 4 man format with discussions and top 10 lists, but I prefer your shorter reviews with 1 or 2 people that have a quick game play overview followed by a concise opinion from the reviewer(s) when I'm looking to make a purchasing decision. Just my 2 cents.

[@danielkeim8558]

Dang. What a bummer. I loved the original TIME Stories and the first couple expansions. Played this version at GenCon and we got stuck in the demo and couldn't move forward. I had thought it was just because it was an early prototype. Apparently not...

[@TheLookingGlassAU]

The time stories franchise has lost my trust. I'll play someone else's copy but I'm not buying it.

[@benlauson555]

If I was a publisher I wouldn't change a thing if I was convinced a bunch of jokers would continue to buy it.

[@xmaslolly]

We have just started the first series and we are thoroughly enjoying it. I was really looking forward to the newer boxes but from this it sounds like the company should have left the system alone. If it ain't broke don't try and fix it.

[@britishbattleborn]

They never really did anything good storywise with the whole replaying runs. Say you meet a character named Tom on your first run, the interaction could have gone bad because you said something to annoy him. On your second run on-wards, you could have access to a locked card that is basically you meeting Tom for the "first time" again, and have you not say the thing that annoyed him so he gives you new info now because he likes you (obviously something more interesting than that). They never did anything like that though. There was never any reason to actually go back to certain locations on your 2nd run to do things differently because every conversation went the same way. They hinted at cool things they could do in the system like the doctor in the asylum who acted differently to men and women characters, but they never bloody used that idea again. Such a waste of a franchise.

[@nothing3376]

This is the new crew

[@danielwoltanski1413]

Shame. Was hoping this would be the revitalization of Time Stories I was waiting for.

[@Fuzzyfoot88]

I haven't tried the new one yet, but man this series gets so much hate for reasons I just don't agree with. 20 runs? Do you guys not pay attention to the information on the cards? By the time my team got to mission 5 we were doing 2 runs every time, it's not that hard to understand the subtext of what the cards are telling you to make informed decisions to better use your time. Worst ending? I can't speak for what happened behind the scenes (Madame was originally story 10 and Hadal was story 9), but everyone acts like Madame was supposed to be this mind blowing godsend to gaming as a whole. You wanted Madame to be the 'return of the king' of your story when they made it abundantly clear that the 'white cycle' was the first step...or better still it was the 'fellowship' of a larger whole, or it was season 1 of the series, I don't care, take your pick. People seem to despise this series because it didn't meet certain criteria but all I see is people giving ridiculous reasons that are compounded by your own play experiences that didn't go the way you wanted. I hope this series doesn't die out because of how people seem to treat it now. I couldn't be more excited to try it, but geez this review is just hate based on previous hate.

[@argel1200]

With 10+ stories apparently following the same screw the players over by not giving them any hints approach to "story telling", doesn't sound like they will be making any significant changes in the second season. There are better narrative games out these days. They should hunt down Brandon Sanderson's writing lectures on KZbin to learn about things like foreshadowing....

[@SlayerOfWorlds]

Like the more honest reviews

[@hermanpesina6328]

The egypt one was when I realized this isn't getting any better.

[@JohnDoe-jr4pt]

I find it interesting that Brian Drake loved this game while everyone here seems to think they got a box of farts.

[@crushgoil]

So sad to hear that. Good to know that I should skip it.

[@JohnDoe-jr4pt]

Check out Brian Drakes review first. He says it's great. Opinions will obviously very, but I wonder if one sour grape here tainted the experience for the rest during the play through.

[@3Xero3]

My group enjoyed it quite a bit. I wrote a reply above that turned into a mini-reiew. I'd still suggest trying to find a friend with a copy to try out and make your own assessment.

[@ogunquit5]

Space Cowboys! Listen to the DT gang. Stop making Time Stories. Move past it and finally come out with the Elysium expansion instead!

[@thediceodyssey4690]

What a shame. I really loved it for 2 modules, have the third sitting there begging us to play it.... It was once in my top 10 of game’s and it has been slipping. I was hoping this one changed things. I guess only TIME will tell.....

[@marcohoehener463]

@Tom It's called a season ending cliffhanger not an ending to the story...

[@thedicetower]

Sure, that works for a season of TV. NOT FOR SOMETHING THAT TOOK THREE YEARS.

[@marcohoehener463]

@@thedicetower imo it absolutely worked... 😎 At least for me.. and I guess for many others out there as well...

[@matts3155]

I played the demo of the new system at bgg and thought it was really good, the story card interactions were interesting and I had high hopes. Hadal project definitely felt like an old module that they tried to fit into the new system, which felt clunky and the interaction cards were mostly pointless. I enjoyed the story/setting, but wish it had just been within the old system. IMO it was a really bad decision to reboot the series and not start with a module to really showcase your new mechanics and story elements. Instead they gave the impression people were in for more of the same.

[@joxer96]

"Twenty-some" runs? I had no idea TIME Stories made you repeat that many times. Yikes...

[@12thLevelSithLord]

Especially in the latter part of OG Time Stories it was frustratingly common to miss some important doodad early on (either due to failing a test or just not realizing you were going to need it later), get to a point where you need that doodad, and just go "we do another run where we get the doodad and get back here." The Dice Tower crew did that a lot in their later recorded play throughs of the game.

[@Koriffel]

It’s probably about a specific scenario mechanism, some of them did that on purpose

[@cthulwho8197]

Yeah for the majority of the series we never took more than three runs, in fact we never took less than three runs. Basically we did the first half dozen scenarios on the 3rd run. Even when one of them threw in a fake first run we then took two more to still finish on three. Two to gather all the information and one to put it in the right order. But one of the later ones (second to last I believe) was obviously designed to make you take many, many runs and whilst I don’t think we reached 20 we certainly took a dozen or so.

[@joxer96]

Cthulwho? That’s ridiculous, do you remember which scenario it was? I have the core game (unplayed), want to make sure I avoid that scenario in the future.

[@Koriffel]

joxer96 last one

[@sluggo562]

Hated Marcy case, the rest were good.

[@seangrady9542]

Unfortunate. This is how I feel about so many rulebooks.

[@ferver-san]

Thanks! I won't be getting it.

[@mydemon]

I like how these 4 guys have 4 different styles and tastes in games. I wish a woman would be added, because my biggest issue is to find games that women like in our gaming groups. A lot of games about war, dudes on a map, 1:1 fighting, or even superheroes tend to not be overly successful with casual women players

[@SingularSuperNinja]

Did Tom just claim that punching a guy "just right" is the same as putting in all your force... Of all the analogies to criticise the new system, a punch is one of the worst to go with. If Tom stepped into a ring with a much smaller guy who knew how to punch he would change his tune quickly.

[@SanjuroSan]

Roy Candy-day

[@jolschki]

Don't listen to Tom and Zeke! Time Stories is fantastic!!

[@mydemon]

This game is getting butchered

[@Strandvideo]

Dice Tower didn't like the game. Roy play-tested it. There's something odd about this when they complain about the misses in the design.

[@oviaelectronica]

Just because you get to playtest a game, doesn't mean your feedback is used in the final design.

[@EpicGamingNight]

Derek S The scenario has changed considerably since then and time stories is such a weird game to play test because you can only play it once per group. I enjoyed when I played back in the day when it was in the other system and did give feedback on several things but space Cowboys changed several things for the worst since my play in my opinion. I also played it over three years ago…

[@MythicosQc74]

Roy playtested with a different rules set.