Top 10 Games that MURDERED other Games

Tom Vasel, Sam Healey, and Zee Garcia take a look at games which were so good they replaced other games.
00:00 - Introduction
03:48 - Sam’s #10
06:02 - Tom’s #10
06:52 - Zee’s #10
08:21 - Tom’s #9
09:45 - Zee’s #9
11:10 - Sam’s #9
12:27 - Zee’s #8
13:59 - Sam’s #8
15:30 - Tom’s #8
16:43 - Zee’s #7
17:58 - Tom’s #7
18:58 - Sam’s #7
20:53 - Tom’s #6
22:17 - Sam’s #6
24:45 - Zee’s #6
26:13 - Sam’s #5
28:13 - Zee’s #5
30:11 - Tom’s #5
31:30 - Sam’s #4
32:57 - Tom’s #4
34:26 - Zee’s #4
36:35 - Tom’s #3
38:00 - Zee’s #3
40:33 - Sam’s #3
42:16 - Zee’s #2
43:20 - Tom’s #2
44:35 - Sam’s #2
48:16 - Zee’s #1
49:43 - Sam’s #1
50:50 - Tom’s #1
Buy great games at www.gamenerdz....
Find more reviews and videos at www.dicetower.com

[@zbrox7174]

It's been 5 years, I'd like to see this list re-visted

[@nshaw1299]

space base killed machi koro since then...

[@revimfadli4666]

@@nshaw1299 unless you consider the "cute standout minimalist artstyle" niche, along with "monopoly-like theming"

[@nshaw1299]

@@revimfadli4666 I meant, for Tom Vasel Space Base killed Machi Koro since this list, but I don't if it would've made a newer top 10 'games that murdered other games'... Though now, with Machi Koro 2, I don't know where he's at. No review on Machi Koro 2 yet, and it looks nore interesting. Not sure if it's different compared to base Machi Koro+expansions.

[@dhowes]

Yes.. Refresh the list!

[@Atlasfilms08]

I'd love to see a redo of this list in 2017.

[@Thorkwin70]

Atlas Filmä.ä Ä Ö

[@unclemay6648]

me too.

[@CzaristMatt]

I think they're probably sponsored now, so I doubt a new version of this list will get released anytime soon.

[@NotJustATad]

Make it so!

[@xshadowscreamx]

Now for 2019

[@Theonlynamenoonehas]

Glad to see you guys back together. I have to say, the onscreen chemistry between you is a pleasure to watch. I always feel better after watching Zee, Sam, Tom and their banter!

[@kiwisoup]

I definitely agree that some games render older games obsolete by improving upon them, but I think there's a general notion that if you take a popular game and add more rules and mechanics to it, that it's somehow better. I'm glad to see their lists didn't always fit this way of thinking as there are many games I enjoy over others because I don't always want such a heavy game.

[@Indubitably14]

Top 10 card games...How could you not have done this yet? LOL

[@Rich711]

Dominion can be played by people all ages 10 to 100. There is no way grandma & grandpa are going to sit down and play a game so heavy in nerd fluff like Thunderstone with the 10 year old but Dominion they play all the time.

[@DarthSironos]

True

[@jeandeguise2210]

Since I have no Grandma and no kids, I'll prefer Thunderstone :p

[@kallanda]

Zee was amazingly hilarious in the first couple of minutes. Look at his expressions! :D

[@johnjack7376]

Thank you Sam Healey for succinctly describing my contempt for Dominion. I've tried on several occasions to play Dominion, even the different expansions and couldn't be more bored with the single mindedness of that game. Some people like it, I didn't.

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

I recently played Dominion (with random decks from practically all the expansions) and the one advantage it has is that since the game is so single-minded, theme-less and well-known, turns practically fly by - there is not that much you can do (one action, one buy, discard and draw) unless you play cards that let you draw and play more cards. Compared to some other deck-builders it's practically turned into a filler.

[@necrotoaster94]

BTW you guys should totally do a "Top Ten Games that Need House Rules"! :D

[@Trae_Lenox]

Interesting to see how 7 Wonders has risen from the dead to make people sell their copy of Among the Stars.

[@forteetugames]

Totally agree with Zee on the house rule for Witch of Salem! Great game with bucket loads of foreboding doom and awesome thematics. This one will definitely kick your butt. Just don't follow the rule about not revealing the door tiles.

[@rollerkas]

Zee, Tom & Sam. Your chemistry together is really entertaining. I can say from experience regarding Citadels, playing Citadels with 6+ people is eye opening and drags a little unless playing with a really fun & vocal group.

[@ChronosZero86]

I kinda chuckle how people are like "the videos are too long!" or "I dont have time!" and most if not all of those people will sit in front of the tv and watch for hours.

[@TheDeathOfLucifer]

I'm watching TV while I watch this and doing dishes

[@cheesecakenl1980]

Great Top 10 guys. This not only helps out me picking up some new games but you also did it with a lot of flavor :)

[@carrickrichards2457]

This theme has legs: It will always trigger energetic debate, there are always lots of new game killers, and we players are Interested: More of this for 2020 please!

[@godmonkey23]

I'm only 3 minutes in and Zee already has me in stitches with sight gags and pantomime.

[@shallzlive]

an updated 2019 version of this woud be awesome!

[@egonpax]

Agreed!

[@ninajiron5488]

"Everyone loves Apples to Apples when you first teach it to them." Ooh, no. I never really cared for it at all. Now Dixit, Dixit I like.

[@Indubitably14]

Han didn't shoot "first". Han shot. Greedo died.

[@jzw0004]

This video makes me want to play games with Zee Garcia because he has so much fun and is quite witty! Love the attitude and theme of this video!

[@scarletovergods]

47:26 "Agricola replaces Caverna" ..thats a bold statement.

[@MunchhausenPL]

I was always agreeing with Zee, but now he jus broke my heart. Escape! is a game and a great one.

[@way9689]

How about a top 10 games that can be made far better with one or two house rules or top 10 games that need house rules to play

[@Twineandribbon]

LOL you made me laugh really hard when you said Arkham horror had been killed by Yahtzee. Not what I expected. :)

[@silase.quester3519]

I realize this videos like 9 months old, but for me, now, I feel like Legendary Encounters: Aliens murders Marvel Legendary Deck Building Game. They're very similar, but with the tweak of having to scan rooms for aliens in Legendary Encounters just adds so much to the game. Most of the time you don't know what you're scanning. It could hurt or even "kill" you or it might be that object you needed to finish an objective. It adds a lot of suspense just by having the cards be face down. Plus. It really hits the flavor of the movie Aliens really well, where Marvel feels lightly comic book-ish (to me at least).

[@mydemon]

This pink drink is my absolute favorite soda. Also, it would be nice to get a redo of this list :)

[@1971JohnnyC]

I played Dixit for the first time a couple weeks ago and said the same thing about the Apples to Apples comparison. Dixit was a lot of fun.

[@joostkleppe3522]

The fiddly, artifical, overloaded and unthematic Caverna never ever killed Agricola with its lovely variety (due to that great bunch of cards) for me. Be brave and feed your people! Apart from that miscanception I enjoyed watching this. guys. ;-)

[@robertmoffitt1336]

Very entertaining & enjoyable, you guys have a really good chemistry going, keep up the good work! The best part is seeing the "friendship dynamic" that comes through in your vids, very refreshing! Hope that never changes!

[@Darkwolfpocco]

THANK YOU SAM! Starfarers of Catan is one of my favorite games of all time.

[@fnord3125]

Stone Age replacing Settlers is silly. I'm not really a fan of either game, but the core gameplay of Stone Age is worker placement... the core of Settlers is trading. There is NO trading in Stone Age... they're entirely different kinds of games.

[@bandgeek58965]

I think he meant that Stone Age replaced Settlers as an entry-level game to teach to new players.

[@fnord3125]

I didn't get that from his comments, but if that's the case, I guess I could understand it.

[@psbauman]

Eric McGuirk No, he said it has the same feel and theme but plays better. Which makes no damn sense.

[@fnord3125]

Paul Bauman Yeah... definitely not the same "theme" as the titular "settlers" have definitely progressed beyond the "stone age." I guess maybe it has the same "feel" to him, but they feel pretty different to me...

[@SamHealey6]

Let me help clarify, gents... First, I...LOATHE...the trading in Catan. At some point in the game, it usually devolves into some kind of forced stalemate until the newbie at the table thinks he can finally jimmy a deal with someone and sneak out a win, and gives the guy in the lead the last resource he needed to finish the game with the win. And good luck "trading" anything if you're in the lead, for pete's sake! So, no trading in Stone Age is a BONUS! Second, in both games you roll dice for resource production. Difference being in Catan, there is no mitigation for bad luck (you get what's rolled and ONLY what's rolled, and if you're in the lead, here comes the robber EVERY TIME it's rolled), whilst in Stone Age there is a rather decent level of mitigation on the rolling (how many workers you send out), and dice rolling isn't the ONLY way resources can be gained...BONUS! Third, both games have a SIMILAR theme in that they are both involved with building up and expanding fledgling societies. I don't give attention to the fact that this happens in seemingly separate ages (or, rather, that one seems to be based in a fictitious land, and the other on a time period in earth's history). So, I hope that this helps it make more...sense...to you now. In the end, Catan is dead to me. The ONLY Catan that I will readily play is Catan Geographies: Germany...but even then, I'd rather play Stone Age to scratch that same itch.

[@lwtrimere]

Stone Age and Settlers of Catan are not even the same sort of game.

[@commandercody1078]

lwCoyote Yeah, I have Catan and liked Stone Age well enough that I've tried to buy it. Catan is a dice-based building game with a strong social aspect that comes out in the trading and robber placement. Stone Age is a pure worker placement game, with player interaction limited to spot denial. For much of the game it's almost a multiplayer solo experience. Both are excellent games but they are too different to "replace" each other.

[@markcalvinhollett]

@@commandercody1078 I think Catan with sea farers is the best version.

[@geektome4781]

Ashes, Rise of the Phoenixborn replaced Magic: The Gathering. I first played Magic: The Gathering in 1994, longer than many current players have been alive. I love MTG. But I really enjoy the game mechanics of ARP. With the magic dice there is no real issue with being mana-screwed (or mana-flood) and I think it is a great mechanic. I also enjoy the use of the spellboard. I like having different Phoenixborn characters with their own unique abilities and characteristics (similar to Android: Netrunner). I like passing the round back and forth with a single main action and an optional side action--it adds a lot of strategy to the game. And the game is fresh enough not to have the issue of power creep that is a major problem in MTG. And it's a LCG-style game so you don't need to take out a second mortgage to afford all the cards needed to keep up. There is nowhere near as much diversity of cards in ARP, but it's a new game and I expect that to improve as time goes on. I stopped playing MTG because I simply couldn't afford it anymore. But I am very happy with ARP.

[@TerranFabricator]

Personally I've never had an issue with longer games, though having only played Arkham Horror once and never playing Eldritch Horror I can't say which I'd prefer though I do plan to give Arkham Horror and proper run through this coming weekend where I'll have to learn the rules and teach my friend. But on the subject of long games I ended up playing a 10 hour long game of Talisman 4th edition a few weeks ago and it was awesome. ^_^

[@brockh4422]

Not only was this list an interesting topic and informative, but these puns and "murder" theme throughout the list was amazingly funny. Just "oozing" with theme. :p

[@arekkrolak6320]

Ok, let's see how Thunderstone replaces Dominion - Thunderstone #694, Dominion #98 - somebody was dreaming perhaps...

[@lucipherify]

For me nothing replaces Citadels! A small fit-in-a-pocket game which could be played by 8!!!

[@hngongstring]

Thanks guys. I know I asked for something like this and you delivered. I really appreciate it.

[@Sandbagging]

I'm a big fan of Thunderstone, but whenever someone says that it "replaces" Dominion, it's immediately clear that that person probably doesn't have an understanding of Dominion. It's probably for lack of experience, as it can take many plays before a new player grasps the mechanics enough to start building skill, but Sam was way over the top in his dismissal of the game.

[@SamHealey6]

Wow...just...wow...-_-...I certainly hope this is a troll. I can't tell you how many times I've played Dominion for losing count!! We wore that game out before the first expansion. Over, and over, and over, and over...jeez louise!!! How many times must a person play a game before they have an "understanding" of it?? Furthermore, after all the times I've played Dominion, if I don't have an understanding of it by now...good riddance! If it takes this long (or longer as your accusation implies) to have an "understanding" of a game, then, quite frankly, I don't have time for that game. And as far as lack of experience is concerned...no, you know what?...I'm not going there...as always thanks for watching! (smiley face)

[@jaredh4678]

Sam Healey Sam, I'm surprised by the tone of your reply; I didn't mean to offend you. I have little insight into your life, other than that you play a lot of different games, so it seemed very plausible that you might not have played a huge amount of Dominion. I stand by that Dominion is a deep game; anyone can pick it up, but it can take hundreds of games to start getting really good at it, and it would be especially hard if Dominion is one of hundreds of different games that you're playing. In light of this, suggesting that you might not have played extensively, or even that you might not be skilled at the game, wasn't meant as a put-down, but I see how it could be taken as such, so I apologize for that. As for the quality of the game, I think we'll end up agreeing to disagree... but I should've elaborated in my original post. I feel the games are too different for either one to replace the other (Tom touched on this a bit; there are mechanical differences which make the strategy and feel in each game very distinct, IMO), so naturally I thought that it was crazy to say that Thunderstone took what Dominion did and did it better; IMO they're doing very different things. Anyways, sorry, again, if you were offended by what I said. As always, I enjoy your videos, not least because it's fun to hear differing opinions about games!

[@SamHealey6]

Jared H No real offense taken, Jared. Your assumption that I hadn't played Dominion more than a few times is what stuck in my craw more than anything else, but you didn't ruin my weekend...:) The core of Dominion and Thunderstone are the same...using cards and their abilities to purchase or otherwise procure more cards. They are both deck-builders...sure, they have differences...but they're both deck-builders at the end of the day. They're both in the same genre of games, along with Among the Stars, Legendary, and the DC Deck-Builder, etc. So, I feel that I am justified in comparing the two and allowing one to replace the other. Dominion tried to have a fantasy theme and failed miserably. Thunderstone came along and slam-dunked the theme, and implemented the card-play in a better (my opinion) way that made more sense. So, for a fantasy deck-builder, Thunderstone gets my vote over Dominion. As an aside, I'm looking to purchase Legendary as my superheroes deck-builder, and possibly Among the stars as my sci-fi deck-builder. So, maybe that provides a bit of insight to how my brain is working here. I don't play games competitively, so as to 'get better' at them. I play them for fun...period. If' I don't have fun playing a game, that game loses its luster real quick for me. It could be the most superbly designed game ever from a mechanical stand-point...but if it isn't fun, away it goes.

[@1872959]

+Sam Healey "If it takes this long (or longer as your accusation implies) to have an "understanding" of a game, then, quite frankly, I don't have time for that game" I'm pretty shocked but I'll be blunt and say that's a casual thing to say.

[@Plainbear]

I would suggest "Top 10 Gateway games" or "Top 10 games for 6 and more players"

[@Rawyr]

Aw that's cute. Tom doesn't know how to feed his family. For me it was the opposite, Caverna replaced by Agricola. I was like "This is the hardcore expert game I've been waiting for." I'll play whatever with whomever, but if you want to actually challenge high-level strategists you gotta play Agricola over Caverna

[@GarrettPetersen]

9:07 "Diplomacy has that historical flavour, which disappears almost immediately because you're attacking---England can attack Turkey for no reason at all." I realize you were just searching for any old example here, but have you not heard about the Gallipoli campaign? England attacked Turkey for no reason at all in 1915.

[@MindinViolet]

WWI just doesn’t make much sense in general. I guess world leaders like attacking each other every so often.

[@jmadmaxx7295]

Turkey, or the Ottoman Empire, was allies with Germany and Austria-Hungary at the time, Britain was at war with Germany and Austria-Hungary

[@YakovPetrovich]

Looks like someone made a little mistake at 47:26: "Agricola replaces Caverna" ;)

[@Steve-L]

I watched this awhile back, but came back to comment. When I played Deadwood and liked it, and found out about Carson City, I was very interested. Took awhile to get it played. I had a 2 player game and knew quite quickly the game needed at least 3. So I refused to make any judgment until I played with at least 3 players. It took even longer to get 3 players, but liked it so much played another game right after with 4. An awesome game, better than Deadwood. I can see why Tom Vasal was perplexed when Sam and Zee said Deadwood replaced Carson City. Both are great games, and Deadwood is simpler, but Carson City is awesome and doesn't need to be replaced. I think Bang! gets a bad rap. If you choose your expansions properly it won't be a long game. We often finish a game in about 1 hour. If you use High Noon and/or A Fistful of Cards you set a kind of "doom track" in game length. Also if you do not use the Shadow feature of Gold Rush, you shorten the game as well. People want to use it to eliminate player elimination, but you gotta accept it in this kind of game, besides I offset this with 2 cards from High Noon and Fistful of Cards with the cards "Ghost Town" & "Dead Man". Dead Man allows the 1st player eliminated to come back, thus its not so bad, as it only brings back 1 player, and the 1st one out, so they don't feel they got the wrong end of the stick. And Ghost Town brings back everyone, but only for just 1 turn. BTW, sometimes these cards don't even show up, and most games end before we reach the end of this deck! I usually put in 12-15 cards in this deck. We have only reached the High Noon card 2-3 times! I also want to say the other half of Gold Rush speeds the game up because it encourages players to shoot other players, even their own team mates, to get gold. So I use this half of that expansion only. I don't own or use Wild West. So the use of the expansions I share here, helps and does not hinder the game. I also want to add I have lots of Bling for my Bang, which creates even more theme which everyone loves! And while I am not a country fan, I did gather themed music for the game, songs like the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. I really believe playing Bang! this way will fix most problems people have with the game, but it won't fix disinterest or dislike of mechanics such as player elimination. I own and have played Ca$h n Guns 2nd edition now. I thought it was okay, but it does not even come close to Bang! A couple of people in my extended family, I think, like Ca$h n' Guns better than Bang the Card game, not that it replaces it. As for Bang! the dice game, it is a great game but it will not replace the card game. I think the card game is better, probably for a few reasons. One, I prefer board games over card games, I prefer card games over dice games. Two, Bang! the card game is so darn fun in the way I have it tweaked, and especially using all the bling I have. Just sitting and playing the game with family has created fun times and memories, its a blast. Don't get me wrong, we are gonna play the Dice game, we love it, everyone said it doesn't replace the card game (not just me) but is a different fun game.

[@yair1010]

I thought that GoT is the quintessential replacer of Diplomacy..

[@sra12100]

I agree. There's no more of a direct descendent to Diplomacy than the wildly popular GOT.

[@mattrondeau2]

THANK YOU! For mentioning it

[@christophersmith8316]

Possibly not for the reason Tom gave - being nasty and long. Apparenly GOT adds a bunch of theme that Diplomacy mostly lacks. But the little I heard about GOT is that it is kind of long too.

[@madeinfrance06]

love got , do house rules , 2v2v2 its so fun too XD , or even original way

[@necrotoaster94]

I love the long Top Ten lists not just for the lists but for the camaraderie between the presenters. :)

[@KabukiKid]

I always dug Diplomacy... and thankfully, I never had a game where one player was quickly wiped out. Always had good fun with this one, but have seen people get way pissed. lol

[@sebastienzander5593]

That Citadels hand of cards with all the roles actually makes sense. It would instead be played like Mission Red Planet. (I think) There wouldn't be a need for a first player, so instead the King would 'summon his subjects' and get cards back and the game would last 8 or 9 rounds depending on the number of cards used.

[@waterwixxxer]

Yay. Oh and Burger Joint does not suck. Oh and because of Dice Hate Me's "It's no Twilight Struggle" review titled A few fries short of a happy meal, I am now boycotting all Dice Hate Me and anything the founder of Dice Hate Me has worked on. I believe Noe Huber is 1. Brilliant 2. Really good at finding lesser known games such as Olympia 2000 3. Completely successful at making what was intended with Burger Joint. It hurt my feelings to see the game downed in such a jovial manner (though I do the same sometimes okay a lot of the times) mostly because I have had prior interaction and a game I like on the shelf before I knew he created another game Burger Joint that I both respect and like. Look down on me if that is what is natural, but don't say ignorant things such as the quote listed above. Anyone that can write as well as what is on display in that review can tell it was never supposed to be. And even if it is evident that the author knew this, the downplay of the fun in the game critique is invalidated by the obvious bias of the author towards heavier games. I offer an opposing view point of Burger Joint, of the brilliance of huber, and a word of caution about the perspective of Dice Hate Me Games not appreciating lighter games as evident by the Burger Joint review. And also I add that I own Carnival which is a Dice Hate Me Game. And I promise to grade it as hard as it deserves. I will dissect it. I will heavily explore it. And if it is not better than Burger Joint I will most definitely compare the pros and cons of the two games side by side. Here is a tip. If you are a designer and care about sales of your multitude of games, don't sternly review other designers games or risk alienating some of your buyers. Or just pay the toll to be yourself and as open with your opinions as you want to be. It might be worth it anyway, it probably varies person by person.

[@666kingdrummer]

Relic replaced Talisman. Anyone who has played talisman knows about the problems that game had, When Relic was released it made Talisman instantly obsolete. The only reason you would play Talisman anymore is simply nostalgia

[@jvomkrieg]

I also prefer Relic, it's our go to game when people are tired and just want to roll dice and have fun without too much thinking. Talisman still has the generic fantasy theme, which might have a slightly broader appeal than 40k, but i agree that its an inferior game.

[@666kingdrummer]

J Vomkrieg Not to mention th fact that Relic also has more decision making, takes less time to play, different missions, and more varied characters to choose from

[@jvomkrieg]

666kingdrummer Its still pretty random, if much improved from talisman, but I prefer the journey of the game rather than winning it as such. My friends and I play it very very non-competitively. For us, it's a relax game. I love the figure busts as well, really great to paint up. I also magnetized the bases so I dont have to press the figures on the stands.

[@mikejonesnoreally]

Not true. I didn't really start to get into Talisman again until after I had gotten Relic (and both expansions) and was thereby *reintroduced* to FFGs take on Talisman (I think it's 4th ed. now) which is a very different game than the first Talismans. "instantly obsolete" is about as incorrect and opinionated as you can get! Judging from the leader boards even for the digital edition there's thousands of people still playing Talisman and I've yet to see *anyone* bring Relic to open game night that wasn't me.

[@mikejonesnoreally]

Have you even ever *played* Talisman with all the expansions? Just counting the components shows that not to be true *especially* the number of missions and characters!

[@MindOfGenius]

I agree with your number 1. BANG!: The Dice Game was a sped up BANG!, but Cash N' Guns is a more fun BANG!. You get to be more of a prick in BANG!, and the bluffing has a lot more weight to it, especially when you have to keep track of who has bullets left, and who is bluffing.

[@ryanahr2267]

God, Resistance. I love that game, but I agree that it's far too easy for the game to implode thanks to one awful player. Last time I played, myself and one of my other fellow spies were running that game, but the other spy, a girl who had never been particularly bright, completely blew up the great game we had going. I have rarely gotten that angry at a board game.

[@styxxrivers7576]

These are great video's Certanly make me aware of alot of game that are out there. Video length is great. For people wanting shorter video, just use the skip ahead video bar. Thank guys. Looking forward to your next one.

[@billjensen51]

I enjoy these lists you make. Keep it up.

[@slydog75]

Replacing Catan with Stone Age... they aren't the same game... They have similar themes but the mechanics are completely different. odd choice

[@FSCB2013]

+Adam Hostetler Not really. I think they have gone for a similar feel for the player. Simply put, in both games you are collecting resources in order to build things. The method that you collect resources is determined by die rolls. Only the mechanics of the die are very different. In Catan, you may go rounds without collecting any decent amount of resource purely because of die rolls. I have had this even when having settlements on the 5, 6 and 8 tiles. In Stone Age a similar thing can happen (unlucky die rolls) but you control the risk you are willing to take on a roll by allocating more meeples to a position. You might still bust and get 1 or even no paltry resources, but you should get more with more meeples. In this regard, Stone Age is a better game because the dice mechanic is arguably better. You are not purely relying on a random number generator to determine whether you get some resources or nothing at all. I have always thought of the dice mechanic in Catan as being similar to Monopoly. No choice or mitigation. Simply roll and do what the dice tell you ie give out resources. The rest of the game is somewhat similar. Rather than racing to 10 points, you are racing to highest points by finishing off the purchase of hut tiles and/or cards.

[@revimfadli4666]

@@FSCB2013 that's the similarity. The big difference is Catan's trading. And spatial structure building, to an extent. Those contribute to the feel as well, especially the interaction, politics, & dynamic supply-demand associated with the trades. Can Stone Age be better in that regard? Does it even have anything with a similar feel? Did you include it in the "rest of the game"? Catan's settlement placement still has more mitigation/agency than Monopoly's dice-determined property "placement", since you can choose where to put them, which one to upgrade, etc, which is more than zero mitigation, albeit weakly. Trading also mitigates it somewhat(provided the dice don't give you nothing to trade with). But yeah, Stone Age's WP is even stronger mitigation & control

[@CopperLontra]

I'm looking forward to the top 10 6 player games. My group is always whineing about how games are either 2-5 or 7+ like Werewolf.

[@TheECP]

The Resistance is 5-10 players ^_^ Also Settlers of Catan has a 6 player expansion.

[@TheGrooves]

"Cosmic Encounter" has expansions to up to 8 players ( if I remember correctly ). "Rex" is for up to 6 players. Same as "Game of Thrones" and "Exodus: Proxima Centauri"

[@Jorge857]

King of Tokyo is 6 players, 7 wonders is 3-7 Players, Shadows Over Camelot is up to 7 players

[@searose6192]

“Kuh-knifed” 😂 😂 😂 I’m using that one!

[@Aba19xx]

Make this TOP 10 one more time :D, more up to date :).

[@BenjaminHyink]

One difference between Dixit and Apples to Apples is that the latter one is actually fun

[@DemonmachinE]

For me, Agricola took the best elements of both Caylus and Puerto Rico, so it kind of replaced those, but I wouldn't say I'll never play them again. I DEFINITELY will play them again because they're amazing games.

[@Hisdudeness9500]

Item #3 on my bucket list: Spend an day in that room with you three and just pick random games to play off that shelf (except risk).

[@TheKindredblades]

NICE!!!! I'm really looking for your next top 10 guys, in my gaming group, we're almost always 6-7 players so there is a lot of games we can't play often

[@matthewsims3806]

I would love to see a top ten list of the best games with a short play time.

[@rufushound9756]

Zee: "I never pull out my Apples if I can pull out my Dixit." Heh heh heh.

[@TzarinaMystra]

I agree with Z that Dixit replaced Apples. I'm not a big "Say Anything" fan. It's fine, but I love Dixit more.

[@TheVosack]

I agree. Dixit is much more fun than Say Anything. The only downside to Dixit (I have Journey) is the small number of picture cards. But the game is still a blast.

[@StefanoPProductions]

I'm probably the only person in the world who still prefers "Bang!" over "Samurai Sword" and "Bang: The Dice Game". Anyhow, great list. Can't wait for the next one.

[@kau6912]

'Bang! The Dice Game' is too short - some games last barely one round. 'Samurai Sword' just drags on and on, and the theme sucks. 'Bang! The Card Game' *can* be a good game, but NOT with the existing rules.

[@MortalP]

I also prefer Bang! over the dice game. Especially if you add in the Death Mesa fan expansion. It removes the frustration of dying early.

[@Steve-L]

Su Pi I think Bang! gets a bad rap. If you choose your expansions properly it won't be a long game. We often finish a game in about 1 hour. If you use High Noon and/or A Fistful of Cards you set a kind of "doom track" in game length. Also if you do not use the Shadow feature of Gold Rush, you shorten the game as well. People want to use it to eliminate player elimination, but you gotta accept it in this kind of game, besides I offset this with 2 cards from High Noon and Fistful of Cards with the cards "Ghost Town" & "Dead Man". Dead Man allows the 1st player eliminated to come back, thus its not so bad, as it only brings back 1 player, and the 1st one out, so they don't feel they got the wrong end of the stick. And Ghost Town brings back everyone, but only for just 1 turn. BTW, sometimes these cards don't even show up, and most games end before we reach the end of this deck! I usually put in 12-15 cards in this deck. We have only reached the High Noon card 2-3 times! I also want to say the other half of Gold Rush speeds the game up because it encourages players to shoot other players, even their own team mates, to get gold. So I use this half of that expansion only. I don't own or use Wild West. So the use of the expansions I share here, helps and does not hinder the game. I also want to add I have lots of Bling for my Bang, which creates even more theme which everyone loves! And while I am not a country fan, I did gather themed music for the game, songs like the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. I really believe playing Bang! this way will fix most problems people have with the game, but it won't fix disinterest or dislike of mechanics such as player elimination. I own and have played Ca$h n Guns 2nd edition now. I thought it was okay, but it does not even come close to Bang! A couple of people in my extended family, I think, like Ca$h n' Guns better than Bang the Card game, not that it replaces it. As for Bang! the dice game, it is a great game but it will not replace the card game. I think the card game is better, probably for a few reasons. One, I prefer board games over card games, I prefer card games over dice games. Two, Bang! the card game is so darn fun in the way I have it tweaked, and especially using all the bling I have. Just sitting and playing the game with family has created fun times and memories, its a blast. Don't get me wrong, we are gonna play the Dice game, we love it, everyone said it doesn't replace the card game (not just me) but is a different fun game.

[@okfoodies]

Tom... you have to show more of what these games look like. I wanna see more then just the box! great job with the Dice Tower!

[@Lugo428]

I can personally validate Vasel's statement about how a STUPID person can ruin The Resistance. I was playing a 5 player game with new players. I was a spy, and so was one other person. First mission came up, and I was on it. Of course, I want to cover my tracks, so I helped with the mission. The mission 2, a 3 mission team. The other spy was on it. I was "give me the card you're throwing away". After everyone gave me their cards the spy said "wait, I gave you the wrong card!" I was like "you f***ing dumb @$$." One of the Resistance members tells me "it's cool if she switches" but if I said she could and the mission fails, then I'm outed as a spy too. I said "no, screw it". Mission 2 was a success. Then third mission, by now, everyone should know she's a spy, and she was on the team. Mission 3 was a success. That was the worst game of The Resistance ever. I actually felt physically sick.

[@Gyrogyro]

Yeah man, how dare people make errors in their first time playing a game! So someone made a mistake. It happens, especially in the first time people play a game. Just laugh it off and either restart the game (since it sounds like you were only like 5 minutes in) or just move on.

[@Lugo428]

Gyrogyro who messed up such a simple game though?

[@adavigdorchik7241]

Lugo428

[@MathewUtting]

Both Steam Park and Escape: The Curse of the Temple are excellent games. I agree with Tom, they're in different spaces. One's a co-op and the other's not, one's a 10 minute tense ride, the other is a 45-60 minute euro punctuated with hasty rolling. Both are very good gateways though.

[@NerdIncorrect]

Escape was replaced in our group by Space Cadets Dice Duel. Same intensity with a better mix of stuff to do. Plus it lasts longer than 10 mins before having to reset everything.

[@tygokersten6413]

I still love Agricola, My opinion, really hate Caverna. Its a bad game, the cards can be complicated, but its still very simple.

[@jacobgregory4503]

Gotta say, I was rather surprised that Smallworld vs. Risk was not on the list. I feel that they have the same mechanic, except SW basically made it better. Risk is a classic, but I would never buy it while Smallworld is on the market.

[@omerhertz]

I'm surprised Sam (at the least) didn't mention that Star Wars: X-Wing murdered Wings of Glory (or Wings of War or whatever they call it nowadays) - It's essentially the same system vastly expended and with a much stronger mythos and a lot more recognisible characters. The special ability and equipment cards are also a great addition.

[@SamHealey6]

In the top 15, but just didn't make the cut. I kind of viewed it as a little too close to the Descent replaced by Descent 2.0 thing that we had talked about trying to stay away from. But yeah, you're right!

[@ELMQ]

Wait, there's a Bang Dice Game? That explains why the original always feels like Werewolf with additional random and overcomplicated mechanics.

[@pandagram]

47:25 There is a mistake because caverna replaces agricola.

[@AirinSA]

While these picks were not all agreed upon, it was still a very helpful list! Thanks for posting!

[@Ghi102]

I played in the same night with my friends, Werewolf, Avalon (which I find slightly better than Resistance) and then Secret Hitler. We both loved Secret Hitler a lot more than any of the past games. The only thing I miss from werewolf though are all the different roles. In Avalon/Resistance and Secret Hitler, everyone only has 2-3 roles at most and it isn't as diverse as werewolf. One game I really want to try though is One Night Werewolf. It's like werewolf but all in one night. So you get all the awesome different roles of the werewolf game, but the game doesn't drag. There also exists apps to narrate the one night werewolf game so the "Bad werewolf narrator" thing doesn't happen.

[@ziggywillibouch7416]

parrot

[@Nightsorrow1]

I have to agree with Tom on the Carson City matter. Carson city it's a game, a great one (especially with the expansion), dreadwood i played two times and thats enough.

[@kau6912]

I traded my copy of Deadwood away. I disliked that dice combat, where "6" is an automatic kill....booo......

[@Splattercat]

It's true though. We've played Bang! a lot, but haven't played it since getting Ca$h&Guns. We played Ca$h&Guns at Tabletop Day even and Bang! was present. :)

[@Novasky2007]

enjoyed watching this countdown even though I have played only a couple of the games mentioned.. So this was more of a future shopping list for me

[@madspunky]

Puzzle Strike murdered every other deck building game for me.

[@yt_mark0414]

sam's heat on dominion and tom's suppressed reaction. Lol

[@kaikarden]

when it comes to apples to apples, i actually prefer to play The game of things. It's essentially like apples to apples only the players write their own responses instead of selecting from a hand of goofy cards. The "judges" job is to try and guess whose response was whose each one they get correct gives them a point. It incorporates a level of deception and higher-level thinking because after the first two or three rounds players begin recycling funny responses in hopes to deceive the judge into thinking it was someone it wasn't. It's one of my all-time party go-to games

[@DeltaAirbusFlyer]

Escape has the most tension EVER in a game and steam park is nothing like it. Also, here's a few you guys missed..... Xwing minis game shit down wings of war in a dogfight. Mage wars murdered summoner wars in an epic duel. Descent 2 killed every game in the genre to a bloody pulp! Just a thought, great video guys!

[@TrackerRoo]

Should do a top 10 western themed list because everyone loves the old west.

[@JoaBelgium]

I'd very much like to buy Fury of Dracula, but it's sadly enough out of print. I'm hoping it comes back soon, though.

[@nerzenjaeger]

Try trading it on boardgamegeek.com. Even harder to find was the German edition of the game, but I was lucky and found someone willing to trade this gem of a game to me.

[@jeffstehman6984]

I clicked like at "Replaced by kitchen knife." :-)

[@Hman27]

Let it be known that I'm not a train-gamer, but having recently played Rolling Freight, and other train games in the past, I felt the need to let my opinion be known. The concept of Rolling Freight is great, but the game has SO many "this was obviously a Kickstarter" flaws. Very underdeveloped. The game length is absurd and only remains interesting for about 30 minutes, after that you are more or less going through the motions over and over again. Delivering goods early is incentivized, but working on multiple Contracts is "punished". This pushes players into focusing on building a small network and then delivering goods as often as possible instead of buying Contracts, which move the game forward. Practically every contract on the board has to be built for the game to end, and most of them take multiple turns to complete, and efficiently using your dice to work on more than one at a time nets you less points - doh! There needs to be an incentive to buy and build more Contracts, or some kind of mechanism to remove Contacts that just sit in the display turn after turn. (Aside from putting one contract per phase onto the bottom of the deck.) Rolling Freight is also insanely fiddly, setup takes forever (especially setting up the Contract deck.) And did I mention that the contract cards are significantly smaller than even the "Hobbit-sized" cards from Ticket To Ride? Jeez. Very busy graphic design, pieces everywhere. Accidentally bump the board during play? May as well pack it up and move on to the next game. What appears to be the main draw of the game, the dice mechanism, serves practically no meaningful purpose. As long as you have enough dice you can almost always do anything that you need to do. There is very little restriction. The colors of your dice really only matter when working on a contract, you can just use die of any color for most actions. Worrying about dice is just a totally unnecessary addition to an already convoluted game. Age of Steam is dead, sure. But Steam is so good and vastly superior to Age of Steam and Rolling Freight.

[@Evac156]

Very interesting. I had been curious about Agricola, because I had seen many good reviews, but I'd never had a chance to play it. After seeing this, I'm thinking I can scratch that from my "to try" list, and just go straight for Caverna. Likewise, I had been curious about all three, Citadels, Libertalia, and Mission: Red Planet. Considering that you've all replaced Citadels, and MRP is virtually impossible to find, looks like Libertalia is on the list to try. Thanks, as always.

[@SamHealey6]

Mission: Red Planet is getting a reprint...so don't write it off just yet!

[@homelessjoe]

I was surprised Quarriors replaced by Marvel Dice Game was not on at least Tom's list.

[@shufflebottom7]

R.I.P. Harvey Lee Osmond.

[@steviev2504]

Whoa Sam, the name calling! ;) Totally agree w/ you about Dominion; thou Trains is what I love now... I like the deck building plus the area control. And yes... I love Stone Age... I keep Settlers only to please my causal gamer friends, and it was my doorway into the wonderful world of board gaming

[@omegafighters]

Cards Against Humanity replaced Apples to Apples.

[@jensthernstrom8602]

One big dissadvantage for among the stars compared to 7 wonders is that among the stars shuffles all the cards and 7 wonders have them seperated into ages. That sepaeration into ages in 7 wonders gives the players a chance of strategy and planning that is lacking in among the stars.

[@nshaw1299]

so what is the ultimate Catan killer in the end? Is there such or did it just fade and better games arrived for different separate aspects within Catan?

[@TheECP]

Funny how the guy on the right was talking about the new roles in the Resistance Avalon, but he was describing their abilities like the plot cards that the guy on the left was talking about, but neither of them knew what the other was talking about...how does that kind of confusion happen? lol

[@robertmoffitt1336]

Too many beers before taping. ;)

[@cedspectre1]

Resistance has at gone well in our group, and terrible with certain people. I have literally had a person standing and yelling in my face, completely angry that I continued to accuse them of being a spy. Of course, I was the spy but nonetheless we decided that game was not for her after that experience.

[@Indubitably14]

Thanks for that warning. I'm planning on getting it, but maybe this game needs a preface before you start: Don't take anything that anyone says during the game seriously.

[@nerzenjaeger]

Indubitably Yeah, some people don't understand that the accusations are not meant to be taken personally. It's not about what you believe the player is, but you want the table to believe somebody is.

[@erendrake]

Indubitably is you are looking for a game like resistance that works well in any group. Look at the reviews for "One night ultimate werewolf".

[@Indubitably14]

Christopher Woerz I have Ultimate Werewolf, I picked up Resistance Avalon today because I wanted a smaller group game (around 5-10) whereas Ultimate Werewolf is more like 10-20, but with a different theme. I don't need that many hidden identity games.

[@erendrake]

Indubitably I am talking about "One Night Ultimate Werewolf". Which I have never played with more than 6. it was good even with 4.

[@EyalItsik]

Chaos in the Old World vaporized El Grande for me

[@darinherrick2503]

Man that’s funny. I played Libertalia before Citadels. I gave it away immediately because Libertalia is garbage. I hated it. My wife hates it. I got Citadels for free and I’m in love. Libertalia only murdera itself because it sucks.

[@KabukiKid]

"Harvey Lee Oswald" lol