Top 10 Games We Wanted to Like - But Didn't!

[@marceldouwstra5847]

Now do a list the other way round.. Top 10 games you didn't think you'd like, but you did!

[@prterrell]

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[@DrewVogel069]

10. War of the Ring / Alcatraz: Scape Goat / Tikal II 9. B-Sieged: Sons of the Abyss / Lady Alice / Shadows of Normandie 8. Mad Zeppelin / Flash Point: Fire Rescue / Anachronism 7. Dead of Winter / Rattle, Battle, Grab the Loot / Colt Express 6. Dungeon Lords / Race for the Galaxy / Tales of the Arabian Nights 5. Dark Moon / The Witcher Adventure Games / Level 7 [Escape] 4. Die Macher / Ninja: Legend of the Scorpion Clan / Red November 3. I am Vlad: Prince of Wallachia / XCOM: The Board Game / The Others: 7 Sins 2. Eldritch Horror / Duel of Ages / Cargo Noir 1. Lords of Xidit / Runewars / SeaFall

[@gregripfish]

Doing the Lord's work

[@Mandrake42]

I love the way Tom just puts his hat over his eyes and sits back when Zee says Eldritch Horror ;)

[@EclecticCamel]

War of the Ring is awesome. It's a game that rewards patience. It isn't meant to be Risk.

[@Peng-444]

TheGreatHamEl agree. And if it didn't have the element that Sam doesn't like it wouldn't reflect the source material and wouldnt be half the game it is.

[@Subtrendy]

I'm kind of surprised they didn't like it. It's pretty similar to Star Wars Rebellion, which they really seemed to enjoy. Maybe LOTR just isn't their jam.

[@stm12p]

Agree. The dice tower guys just dont have a strategy to play as The fellowship. They didn't even know that they can speed up the At war token move down so quickly just by strategically positioned troops. And making war against Sauron army is suicidal since fellowship troops wont re-spawn. The key is to slow down Sauron army so that Frodo can reach Mordor, by wage a defending war. No one in his right mind would ride to the battle field agains unlimited number of Orc, Uruk hai and Goblins. Elf, Dwarf can also try to back stab Sauron if they are too care free marching against other nations. The fellowship of the Ring only needs 4 military points to win. They simply dont like it because they dont know how to play it properly lolzzzz

[@asantos1]

I completely agree with you

[@ramonosuke]

Haven't played the game, but seeing how it works and loving the source material, I will agree with you too. I also think War of the Ring and Battle of the Five Armies can fit in the same collection

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Zee, have you tried the fully cooperative variant (official, included with game) of Dead of Winter? It's exactly what you're asking for. There are no secret objectives and the scenario is harder. The hard objective is on the back of the card. For example, the 1st scenario where you must get 8 samples is changed to 12 samples in fewer rounds. No traitor, no secret objective, fully co-op but harder missions. Exactly what you said. Try it.

[@Clydelyng]

Trevin Taylor that variant is way to easy though. Sadly Dead of Winther is a borderline broken game.

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Lyng if you think it's too easy, make it harder. change the 12 samples to 16 samples. start with 1 less round and 2 less starting cards. it's very simple to turn up the difficulty in that game. start with lower morale, more zombies on the board, or less items in the location deck. you can tweak it to make it tougher very easily.

[@BrandonGraham]

Seriously... how did the three of them not know about this? Also, it seems super thematic that everyone has their own mischievous goal and may or may not betray you in a post-apocalyptic world. There are other reasons why I can see people don't like it... but that makes a ton of sense.

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Brandon Graham absolutely. i would totally hoard medication in a zombie world. it absolutely makes sense.

[@sarahlanger2605]

Zee doesn't dislike the traitor aspect in Dead of Winter, he dislikes how it tries to make the traitor work by giving everybody tratorish objectives.

[@joshuaschulz3897]

The next time you do any games you don't like, I want Sam and Zee to collude and pick all of Tom's top 20 games, just to punk him. That would be awesome.

[@BladeKyt]

I wonder, whether or not i will ever got tired of you three talking about board games. Nowadays, I don't even play that much but I still love listening to you three.

[@likwified]

I'm a little girl from Italy. I Am Vlad is my favorite game of all time. You have stabbed my heart.

[@ashleepradella4912]

Would love to see a list of games you thought you'd dislike and then played and really enjoyed it...from memory you haven't done a list like that yet :) For me my biggest disappointments have been Caverna (Just didn't like the theme, plus thought there were too many options), Flip City (I just don't think I like small deckbuilders), and Imperial Settlers (My own fault, I hate games that have mechanics like Imperial Settlers but got so caught up in the hype and bought it). And whoever put that card in Eldrich Horror "Lose all your progress" is a crazy person hahaa!!! Soooo agree with you Zee

[@John-rv2qe]

Castles of Burgundy tops that list for me. Art work is boring. Too many pieces. Odd theme. BUT WOW! Can't get enough of it now. Great game.

[@ashleepradella4912]

For me it's 7 wonders... for some reason I hated it the first several times I played. I ended up playing it more and more because a friend had it and always wanted to play and now I am OBSESSED!! haha it's funny how these things work out.

[@AndyVandercoy]

Ashlee Cramb I agree on that. I think I love Duel even more with my wife it hits the coffee table often.

[@AndyVandercoy]

John Brody played the card game version? I may have to pick this up

[@John-rv2qe]

I have not played the card version of Burgundy yet. Hopefully this X-mas!

[@dregen77]

As for my list of disappointments (not in specific order): - Spyfall (fell flat every time I played it) - Dead of Winter (Very much for the same reasons that Zee explains so eloquently) - 1830 (I was told this was a perfect game with zero randomness, etc. To me, it felt like going to work) - Mistfall (The game mechanics weren't exciting at all) - Tides of Time (I get it, it's a short filler and that's excatly what I got, problem is all reviews said it was SO good with just 15 cards. It's not that good. It's just okay.) - Russian Railroads (I am not a big fan of Euros, but I do like some of them. I actually fell asleep while playing this one: the theme could be anything else, and I just found it to be an overcomplication of euro mechanics just because. At the end of the game I still had not figured out how the different train tracks scored. I know that's my fault, but this is also my list, so there's that.) - Tiny Epic Kingdoms (It sold the 4x feeling in just 30 minutes. Sorry, but it doesn't even come close, and after a few plays it looked like all it had to offer, we had already seen.) - A Study In Emerald 2.0 (I had heard so many rave review for the first edition of this game. Somebody brought the second edition to play and I think nobody liked it much at that table. I don't know how it compares to 1st Ed. but in this one everything seemed to be too obvious.) - Project Elite (Not a bad game, but seems too random and confusing. I'd play again, but it sure was disappointing to me.) - Shadows of Brimstone (The theme seemed original and cool enough, but it's so much a dice fest that I end up getting bored. I'd choose other alternatives over this one for Dungeon Crawl.)

[@WylliamJudd]

I enjoy playing Dead of Winter in coop mode, where you play hardcore, and you don't use the hidden objective cards. The game is still really good - it's fun to figure out what sacrifices you need to make as a group to survive.

[@feenix1803]

My favourite 'Top 10' list to date. I don't agree with all the choices, but great break-down of what YOU don't like. Very informative.

[@nyulgaming]

Can this be considered a remake of an older video "Top 10 Dissapointing Games" from 2013?

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Adam those they didnt necessarily go in "wanting" to like it. this might (although didnt) include games you actually like, but didnt live up to the hype.

[@adrianpop4809]

It's funny how Sam complains about 'The Others: 7 Sins' glorifying something or other, but then he loves games that glorify the carnage of the second world war.

[@tomasxfranco]

Well. He does take his myths too seriously.

[@ZombieGrizzly]

agree completely. In a lot of ways, I think the war stuff is more morbid and disturbing personally.

[@SamTheWai]

In War of the Ring, it really makes thematic sense that you need to convince the people to go war politically. It took a lot of convincing to get Rohan and Gordon to go to war.

[@bobpoly1034]

Is rune wars better or worse than warrior Knights?

[@mgk2020]

"Maybe that Arkham Horror card game will be the one." Good news, Past Zee...

[@adelfaidah3224]

its so good how nonchalantly he said those words and now its literally in his top 10 of all time

[@GrandElemental]

Blood Rage. Sorry, I know all of you love this game more than life itself, but the ridiculous amount of hype killed this game for me. And by saying ridiculous... jeeeez, you could sum up the hype for all other boardgames out there and multiple that by ten, and it would still dwarf in comparison to the hype that surrounds this game! I mean I was talking about 4X games the other day and there were people that insisted that this is the best 4X (uuuughhh...)! Now, to make it absolutely clear: I don't hate the game, I just find it ultimately forgettable, a really mediocre area control game, and there are so many of those already. I also hate it with two players (rich gets richer, not enough interaction), and dislike it with four (too much interaction, no sense on planning anything because it gets messed over anyway). The three player game is the sweet spot, but even then I use the term "sweet" as loosely and as relatively as possible. You could possibly get me to play this again, but A) it would need to be three player game B) you need to be a very good friend of mine, with another very good friend of mine who also wants desperately to play just this game C) I would need to be in a particularly good mood D) next week we play something I enjoy. Now there are some things I do like in this game. The production is really high quality, the theme is interesting and I like drafting (usually, but not in this game). It just doesn't click for me, as a complete experience. And I'm not one of those people who love hating the popular stuff, quite the contrary! I'd LOVE to like, to speak people about it with honest enthusiasm, to share some great experiences with my beloved gamer friends. But sometimes it goes like this and I want to be honest to both myself and the people I play with. =(

[@Mambaru]

I've got to agree with you on the hype factor it almost reached No Mans Sky like levels. I guess the game and us just don't get along.

[@HeadCannonPrime]

How many times have you played it? I find that it really gets better with repeat plays. The strategy opens up like red wine left out to air. I was bummed the first time I played but after the fourth I felt the game was AMAZING! ps. I've only ever played with 4+ players. We have the player expansions.

[@GrandElemental]

Four times. And I have absolutely no desire to play it ever again. I see no reason to waste any more time and energy to try to like something when there are tons of games I already know I'm going to enjoy playing. I also think I this game isn't nearly as deep as your comment implies.

[@dorpth]

Yeah I quickly lost interest and gave up. You never really get to play with all the upgrades because there's only 3 ages and the 3rd age is overcrowed, quickly shutting out options. There's really not much wiggle room between "it's the beginning and I can't do much" and "I have a ton of stuff, but there's no room on the board and I can't even spend my rage". Victory always went to whoever grabbed the Odin's Throne card. Seriously that one card ruins the entire game. I dunno. Even Odin's Throne aside, there just felt like there was a disconnect between the drafting and board, like it should have just been a card game. Thus the overproduced minis felt pointless (much like Rising Sun). I'd so much rather go play Cyclades, or Kemet, or Chaos in the Old World, or Lords of Hellas, or even Cthulhu Wars.

[@shawncameron9514]

I love Xidit, and what Sam is complaining about is one of my favorite aspects. You HAVE to anticipate your opponents moves.

[@madelainemartiniscanino2997]

War of the Ring? Really? Sam I hate you! Just kidding lol, just commenting because Tom told me to on the vid. Sam, love you!

[@bastien-]

The difference between Dead of Winter and Dark Moon is that in Dark Moon you at least have a chance and a choice. In Dead of Winter, if you don't do your secret objective, you lose no matter what. You're *forced* to play like a jerk in Dead of Winter because of the completely arbitrary rule, even if you're not the traitor. And for no good reason, you can't explain it. In Dark Moon it's just like any other dice rolling game, (either you do well or you don't), but you actually have options and can make choices as a traitor. You can play the game, instead of the game telling you how to play no matter which side you're on, which is what Dead of Winter does.

[@bastien-]

At least when you roll poorly in Dark Moon you can actually explain it and say "I'm sorry, my roll was just bad this time". And it's up to the other players to discern if you're telling the truth. That's kind of the whole point. Whereas in Dead of Winter, literally everyone is a traitor just because they HAVE to do what their card says in order to win, and there's no reasoning to be done. "Why did I build a barricade instead of taking out the trash? Because."

[@toxiccandy7888]

@Ray Cumberledge The traitor would be the only one holding cards, its a necessary rule. And its thematic roleplaying.

[@pickboy87]

Thank you for articulating that. I couldn't put my finger on exactly why I liked one over the other.

[@roycebanuelos536]

Also Dark Moon is one team vs the other, DoW you can have a non traitor lose even if all other non traitors win. Sort of weird. Dark Moon's dice rolling also works against the infected players at times, since they could roll all positive numbers. It's dice rolls so you're either on board or not but over the length of a game the odds tend to even out.

[@Kafaldsbylur]

IMO, the difference is that in Dead of Winter, if you look like the traitor while innocent, it's because you decided that taking steps towards your personal goal at that moment is more important than looking innocent. In Dark Moon (at least as far as I can tell from what information this top 10 gave), if you look like the traitor, it's because the dice gods don't like you. In DoW, you are forced to look like a traitor to win, but you can choose when and try to mitigate it (e.g. taking actions that both help your objective and are the best action to take). In DM, you might never look like a traitor, but you can'T control if and when it happens. Given that, it's completely understandable that Zee and Sam like one but not the other and that they like a different one each

[@jaysoncurry5434]

"Maybe that Arkham Horror card game will be the one?" -Zee This aged well :)

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Sam, for Colt Express, just use chopsticks. You should already have them at game night so people can eat messy snacks like Cheetos without ruining your components.

[@Steve-L]

Board Game Breakfast had a segment on how to make a larger train for Colt Express, one could also easily create a 2D board.

[@MindinViolet]

I am now trying to visualise eating Cheetos with chopsticks.

[@joaocamilo8106]

Or he could just use The Force like the rest of us do, right?

[@gamera2351]

What's wrong with putting your meeple next to the train car instead or in it? That's what my brother in law does.

[@cursivecurses]

With the expansion, there are horses next to the train cars, and players can ride on them, so I suspect it would get confusing real fast

[@gordachi]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, I am Vlad can be really fun! You just need to add a few components that most people would have lying around their house. Like an oven. Or a fireplace.

[@mrskwid1]

gordachi hehe i see what you did there.

[@gronith]

Bang the Dice game, first 3 games of it I played ended in less than 5 minutes. Still don't understand what the big deal is. Maybe we had the wrong player count? That is the only thing I can imagine went wrong. I really want to like smash up as well but I can't get into it.

[@davidlewis5312]

Bang doesn't see as much play for me either. didn't hate it, didn't love it. I just don't see much desire for it over King of Tokyo with PowerUp unless I am playing with eight players.

[@EpicGamingNight]

I normally agree with Sam a lot but I love the political track in war of the ring! It is very thematic! But battle of the five armies is cool too so where good! 😝

[@bendfocuspro]

If you watch the lead up to Sam's #3 about 41:10 and his explanation of it is the best listened to watching at .5 speed. Oh my goodness.

[@lasttruegypsy]

Cargo Noir would be my #1 for sure. I said that out loud when you guys began explaining how you made your lists. I am glad it made Tom's list at #2. Other games that would make my list would be #2 - Tzolkin: The Mayan Calendar #3 - Terra Mystica #4 - Five Tribes #5 - Thurn and Taxis #6 - B-Seiged #7 - Tin Goose #8 - Lords of Xidit #9 - Tiny Epic Kingdoms #10 - Edo Some of these are good games, but I expected too much.

[@fredmcmack]

Tzolkin: The Mayan Calendar is a fantastic game. Still don't get the hype around Terra Mystica though. I've heard Tin Goose takes a couple plays to grok. Edo is also terrific, although I prefer Maharaja.

[@ashleymcmullin1892]

último cigano verdadeiro I can see why one would not like Tzolkin, it is one board game that the better player will almost ALWAYS win, which makes it very niche and not a great game to play unless everyone is very competitive and even matched. I watched a lot of games played online by following Tzolkin masters with thousands of games and it is remarkable how big the gap gets between players. I would recommend the expansion as it makes the game a little more forgiving to most gamers. Unless you just really hated it 😃

[@lasttruegypsy]

Unfortunately I really hated it. Maybe I should try it again because I only played it once. But it left such a bad taste in my mouth that I have never gone back.

[@eXyliad]

My Top Five games I wanted to like... but didn't: 1. Lords of Waterdeep 2. Firefly 3. The Witcher Adventure Game 4. World Of Warcraft 5. Kingdom Builder From 1 to 4, I wanted to like them because I love the themes/IP of these games. The Witcher and Kingdom Builder, because of the designers. Kingdom Builder additionally because of the Spiel des Jahres prize. So. Much. Disappoint.

[@TeChNoWC7]

I feel like Kingdom Builder is the test to see if gamers get the concept of constrained choices in board game design often trumping open world. For that reason and how divisive it is I think it might be a contender for one of the most important board games ever designed

[@davidlewis5312]

@@TeChNoWC7 wow... that was pretentious as hell

[@deanofgames4661]

Sam a bit ridiculous on War of the Ring. The whole idea that they're at the border and cant attack until we go to war is real life...not just in WotR but in life. It makes sense and isn't problematic except for Sam...

[@Islacrusez]

Playing flash point for the first time was a rude awakening. If you’re not expecting a hardcore puzzle game, you’re in for a bad time because that’s exactly what you’re getting. “Mechanical” is right.

[@ramonosuke]

Great list some definite ones for me would be: Cry Havoc Arboretum Apex Theropod Deck Building Game-Janky mess for rules really hurt this one Clank! In! Space!-Too long, with player elimination...not fun sorry New York Slice Mage Wars-way too convoluted for what it is

[@jackskellingtonsora]

Zee Zee Zee. Eldritch Horror? Really? What you said you expected out of Eldritch Horror was exactly what it was. A much better, cleaned up, streamlined version of Arkham Horror on the world stage in a shorter time frame. I love you, but wow.

[@tomjandrews5334]

Zee is spot on. Eldritch Horror is too long and too complex. Tried 5 players game twice. First time took 4 hours before we lost. The second 6 hours before we lost. Even solo it took 3 hours. Its a beautiful game and very thematic but it needed more stream lining.

[@jackskellingtonsora]

Tom J Andrews Have you actually played Arkham Horror? Because it is extremely streamlined in comparison with that. I'll give you that it's long, but again, not in comparison with Arkham Horror which was the entire point.

[@ksaarto]

I agree with Zee on Eldritch. Just played it yesterday with a buddy. After 3+ hours we just ran out of time and to quit. We had fun, no question about that, but I too expected it to be much more streamlined. There are like 12 decks on table and the setup still takes too long. Also, you do not get to make enough interesting choices, mostly you just do the one obvious thing and roll the dice hoping for the best.

[@Hilipinapixili]

I friggin' LOVE Arkham Horror, so when Eldritch was announced I was jumping up and down with excitement. Then it finally came out, and I played it, and I HATED it. I think it made me realize why I actually like Arkham: The scope. Arkham is more intimate, more mysterious in a "something wrong is going on in town" kinda way. By making Eldritch worldwide the story kinda loses it's focus, it feels less immersive, less intimate. Not only that, but I've had far worse experiences with "thunderbolt cards" in Eldritch than in Arkham. I played Eldritch like 5 or 6 times after my terrible first impressions because, as the title of the list says, I desperately wanted to like it. I hated it each and every single time. This one would DEFINITELY be #1 on my list.

[@swvi9459]

Why on earth would you take EH and play it on limited time!?

[@MarcelPogorzelski]

Again with the Race for the Galaxy thing. I played it once and all the icons where really easy to understand because they are explained on the cards! Just read the little info box when you don't immediately understand the meaning of the symbols.

[@McBehrer]

42:35 yeah. That's where the phrase "rub the wrong way" COMES from.

[@Kindlesmith70]

2 years old, I know. Zee, play the full co-op variant of Dead of Winter. I hate the traitor mechanism within this game. The game is hard enough without everyone scrabbling to achieve another objective in addition to the main one. Co-op variant removes the traitor, removes the personal objectives and you play the hardest mode of the scenario. Dead of Winter: The Long Night adds bandits which adds a minor nuisance to the locations, which does up the difficulty by a small amount.

[@webs1]

Sam's view of The Others is kinda funny considering he doesn't seem to have a problem with a game like Last Friday which for me is in bad taste.

[@Steve-L]

The Others has demons. Last Friday has humans. I am guessing, as I haven't played either.

[@MrAustinflx]

Or how about Blood Rage, where Vikings are going to die in Ragnarok and are trying to kill each other to get the most glory? There's nothing nice about that. At least in The Others, there are a group of good guys fighting against the demons, trying to save the world from the apocalypse. So there is a glimmer of hope. Blood Rage is, I think, much darker, as the world is going to be destroyed no matter what, and in The Others players are trying to stop the world from being destroyed. I don't know....

[@Steve-L]

I can't speak for Sam, I am a Christian, and avoid heavily demonic flavored games, not necessarily because of the depiction, although they are often disturbing, but because demons are real, and have no wish to side with them, even for entertainment purposes. For this reason, I avoid all Cthulhu games. But I know he isn't real, I just avoid the genre completely.

[@legolasegb]

I'm with Sam on The Others. I watch horror movies and Thrillers and play war board games of world domination. I don't know if I can quite put my finger why I don't want to play The Others, but I'll take a stab. The 7 deadly sins are something I struggle with and they are real. And to be corrupted means you are doing lustful, avaricious, prideful, etc. things. I wouldn't expect an American to like a game about blowing up the World Trade Centers or a Catholic to like a game about destroying Vatican City. Playing a game in which you ally with something that you have a personal struggle with is...awkward at best. I wanted to like this game myself, but after seeing what it's made of, I really don't want to play it. That's different, than say, playing a role in a horror movie like Last Friday or playing as a bloodthirsty Count Dracula or Viking or something.

[@Steve-L]

Well said.

[@lariandrobert]

Sam, Tom, Zee, it was interesting the number of times you said, "Art, amazing! Components, awesome! Theme, outstanding! Game-play, BLECH!" Are you ever tempted to just re-write the rules for any of these dogs, so they can meet your expectations?

[@jesseokane347]

for colt express we had similar difficulties for some players but found that simply arranging the carriages in a semi circle gave better access and made their contents more visable

[@trevorcummins6657]

Now that we have "Top 10 Disappointing Games" and "Top 10 Games We Wanted to Like, But Didn't", we really need "Top 10 Games That Failed to Meet Expectations", "Top 10 Games We Hoped Would Be Better", and "Top 10 Disappointing Games 2: Electric Boogaloo"

[@TheFamilyShowdownHRKN]

Sam you are fired! War of the Ring is pure, Grade A greatness! My favorite game of all time! ...but still love you, man.

[@TheFamilyShowdownHRKN]

Sam, you are partially redeemed. I am with you on Xidit. That game was so disappointing. "That guy" blocked both of us many times throughout the game. Half of my turns (at least) was blocked.

[@Inner2000]

This is truly one of the best segments on a long time. It was great to see you guys disagree, have fun and tell what you really feel for some games. This is all we want, true arguments about why you think a game is worth to ask money from us. Good job.

[@neverboardofgaming]

I agree on Dead of Winter Zee! Blahhh did not like voting friends out, random cards, and....random die roll will kill you....yeah not for me.

[@neverboardofgaming]

Friends came out of the experience depressed haha.

[@casedinlight]

Dead of Winter is one of the worst board games I've ever played. I wanted to die so that I didn't have to play anymore, and the game drags on SO long.

[@Superslemmet]

Heh, got that card that removes all your progress in Eldrich Horror the second time I played it. Like, two turns after drawing that card we all realised the card could as well have said "You lose". Continuing playing after getting that was pretty pointless. But other than that card, I think Eldrich Horror is great fun. Easy to learn and not too lengthy.

[@rigamarolexq]

Just to make sure, 당나귀 똥 (in the background, over Sam's shoulder), is Los Mampfos, right?

[@McBehrer]

so, here are some of mine. Dead of Winter. I agree with Zee, for one, but also it's just so long and slow-paced. Sheriff of Nottingham. Not that it's a bad game, but I played with a guy who never lied once, and he won; when everyone else is trying to bluff and lie creatively, it kind of bugged me that the guy who didn't at all won it. That you can win without taking any risks. Myth. I love the combat mechanics and the characters and everything, but the rulebook is such a clusterfuck. Plus, even though you're supposed to be able to play a story without a DM, you still need someone to decide what goes in any given panel, with very little input from the game itself, leaves you wondering exactly what you're supposed to DO. Mage Wars. The concept is great, and I haven't played Academy yet, but Arena just takes so damn long! I can't get anyone to play, because it's hard to teach and takes several hours. Lords of Waterdeep. Mostly because the guy I played with (who owned the game) was a dick; he kept going on about how he "doesn't play to win, he only plays to have fun," and then wins by like 50 points above the second place player. Risk: Legacy. If you win too many games, the game starts building and building in your favor. After a while, one player can become an unstoppable force, and it's just not fun for anyone. I was that player, and it wasn't fun for me either.

[@TeChNoWC7]

Your problems with Sheriff are completely fixed with the expansion.

[@WCP4to]

Another awesome top 10! Thank you! However, I was hoping for the same quality as the "Top 10 Anticipated Essen Spiel 2016 Games" regarding the titles and Games' cover and stuff. You will always have my like but I really liked that one because of that. Keep the awesome work!

[@twenty-sidedturtle2107]

WCP4to So you're saying you were disappointed by this Top Ten? I'll let myself out.

[@WCP4to]

I was disappointed by its presentation since there were better ones before, but I love all to 10's!

[@a1investigations433]

Completely agree with Zee on Eldritch Horror. Sold it after 1 and 1/2 plays. The Others is great for what Sam dislikes it for, plus great mechanisms. I've not played a more tense game no matter what side you play on. (It's cool if you don't like the Others for theme, though)

[@undersci]

For me, it's Chaos in the Old World. I'm the biggest Blood Rage fan on the planet, and a couple of months ago, some folks said to me 'This game's even better than Blood Rage!' I was hyped. To me, it was a pale shadow of Blood Rage in every possible way. From super randomness with exploding dice, to a limited card pool that you drew at random, to proscribed game play that made bash the leader a condition of playing well, I just didn't enjoy it at all.

[@jenspoder8322]

What a great list! This was a blast :) And what a great idea to get some catharsis from sharing your worst disappointments. My top 3 would be: 1) King of New York: Took a brilliant and funny and fast game and made it convoluted and long. I had been looking SO much forward to this. 2) Descent: Bought a load of boxes of this expecting great things. This was just not for me. I hated being the overlord. Everything looked great, but the gameplay was just so annoying. Get knocked down. Get up again. Get knocked down again. 3) Imperial Settlers: This was just going to be the greatest. Looked so amazing and everyone was reviewing it like it was pure gold. Fell totally flat for me. Ended up selling it after one play-through.

[@calaban9]

We changed the rule on Rattle Battle a little.. everyone can hold back one or two dice after the drop and drop them in from the side while aiming and trying to manipulate the . Took it to another level.

[@phillip2863]

For me it's gotta be Among the Stars. Everyone has different powers: great, I like that. Drafting: great, I like that. Trying to build good combos/synergies: great, I like that. Planning and managing placement: great, I like that. All signs pointed to something I'd enjoy but when I got into it the game really just felt like I was playing by myself and just happened to have other people around doing that too. It didn't feel like there was much interaction beyond drafting and the effects of the pieces were kind of bland and didn't really do anything exciting. Mostly just gaining more points, and yeah that's the goal of the game but it's not particularly fun in its execution. Really thought I'd like that one.

[@antone1azet]

Comparison to Avatar might be precise, as I read the title of the video that movie was 1st thing that came to my mind. Avatar = Biggest disappointment ever, definition of something hugely overrated with hype but then just poor execution, characters which makes me wanna puke and booooring story. Regarding games I would pick Dead of Winter as well, it felt too much as Kickstarter (def.: something half-cooked, needed to be playtested for at least another 2 years before publishing).

[@Steve-L]

Avatar a top 10 film!

[@garystephen8718]

Yeah Avatar was so bad. The fact we're getting sequels is such a disappointment. Of all the good films that could do with sequels, it's Avatar that's getting like a million of them!

[@Steve-L]

3 sequels. Woot!

[@Mentat1231]

"Also known as 'I am BAD'" makes me crack up laughing every time. It's perfect.

[@mogelyCowboyUp]

What other game was Tom guessing what Sam's number one when he was talking about the math ups of different creatures and characters from all kind of time frames? I've heard him mention it before but I cannot rememeber what it is

[@toondankmagician8740]

I find it hilarious when you reject a game because it has corruption as a theme but you're a very vocal viking fan. Vikings, who raped everywhere they pillaged.

[@NeilBlaiberg]

Love Tom's reaction at the mention of Eldritch Horror!

[@johannesblank1552]

It's better in 1.25x speed :-)

[@guyblin]

0.5x is pretty priceless for Drunk Dice Tower reviews :) 41:39 lol

[@joaocamilo8106]

0.5 = Post-stroke top 10

[@joaocamilo8106]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipXSqnivYr1kipYm28s @ 0.5X > Drunk chat, clearly!

[@Mentocthemindtaker]

Thumbs up! I _always_ watch in 1.25x speed! It is actually better!

[@BGBarbarian]

Codenames, Spyfall, and Tides of Time really didn't live up to the hype for me.

[@balzi76]

I thought Zee would put Codenames on his list

[@Tennethums1]

Michael Cross I'd agree with Code Names. People LOVE this game (including my play group) and I just don't get it. Of course, I tried so hard to get them to play Kemet last time and it was just a train wreck. Instead, everyone wanted to play Watch ya Mouth. Sigh.

[@tinstargames]

I'm with you on Dead of Winter, Zee. I like it a lot but it's not what I WANT it to be. It's so close it hurts.

[@tinstargames]

And I'm with Sam on Race

[@MarcelPogorzelski]

I am glad I don't have to make the choices of what to buy blind. I order games for the gaming group I am in. The last two orders(about 10 games) were all hits. That's because of Dice Tower and Watch it Played. Do your research first and buy later if you don't want to waste money. Either way thank you for all the info you provide. Our gaming group is stacked with great games for every occasion because of the work you do.

[@avj317]

Agricola! lol! thats the major one for me :)

[@2112dorf]

Could it be a possibility that someone new to the hobby (like myself) could like some of these games since we don't have anything to compare it to, thus I don't have any expectations towards a certain company, designer, or past iteration?

[@John-rv2qe]

sure it is. Your mileage may vary. My biggest lesson learned is finding out the various styles/types/genres of games that I like and those that I don't care for. Keep in mind that ANY reviewer will have his/her own tastes. The best example is abstract strategy games. I LOVE 'em!!!! Many of the game reviewers do not. "Too thinky" or "not enough social interaction". Food for thought.

[@sarahkelley768]

Absolutely. If you noticed, they didn't even agree with each other on some games. And while I completely agree with some of the criticism, I may still like the games they're talking about.

[@2112dorf]

+Sarah Kelley I've only been deep into the hobby for only a year, and found that like "filler games" at work (I only get a 30min break) and heavier games at home (Wrath of Ashardalon). I play all of my games solo, and I prefer tokens over bookkeeping....

[@sarahkelley768]

So you have some wildly different preferences! I think I get more out of what the guys love, than what annoys them. For instance, Zee loves little games. So if he keeps saying he loves a particular tiny game, it's probably a good one. But when he complains that a game is too long, well, I laugh it off, because while I have some tiny games, there is also room on my table (and yours) for longer games. The more of their videos you watch and the more games you play, the easier it gets to see where your tastes and needs align and differ from theirs.

[@TonganJedi]

Agreed with my disappointment of The Others, but I didn't have high expectations. Just can't get past the inability to do much of anything without being damaged and so few options to heal.

[@lpgascon]

Colt Express is Amazing! I think they should make a Collectors Giant Version for Sam

[@katpogatshnik7953]

Zee; you're the best. Eldrich Horror is probably my #1 most disappointing game. When I saw this list I said "Well, I know if it were me I'd pick Eldrich Horror". I love Arkham Horror, I even love it with the expansions (most of them), but yes, an update sounded great. Give me arkham better, faster, I want that. Eldrich is just as long, it's not any more streamlined, its not any better, and it's not any more thematic. I'd rather play Arkham any time. I also have the same problem you had with Arabian Nights with Arkham, it doesn't feel like the encounters where you make choices really have any correlation with whether the outcome is going to be good or bad. And you have these high skills and no idea how to use them. It's like, "you find an old book, do you want to read it or put it away?" And I say "Ok, my Lore is like a 4, I should be really good at this I want to read it!" and then the game says "Great! Okay so while you're reading it test Observation to notice a small detail!" and then you roll only 1 dice and fail. And it's like that all the time.

[@jeffwmoore]

My #1 is KIng of New York. I love King of Tokyo and I really wanted to love King of New York, but it just fell flat for me.

[@mstone1567]

I like Cargo Noir, but I also new exactly what I was getting into when I bought it. I don't like auction games where everyone has unlimited opportunities to bid. Of course the limiting factor is your income, but also having limited opportunities to make your bid, making sure every bid counts as much as possible, that is what I was looking for.

[@marcohoehener463]

my thoughts exactly. This game really played well with two different groups i played it with. No boring at all!

[@Crinklechip-s]

I like Cargo Noir too. What can you do? We all have different tastes...

[@2112dorf]

Can you guys do a top 10 games by (insert company name or designer name here). You got me interested when you mentioned certain companies were "firing on all cylinders", and I think it would be cool to know your favorites.

[@cloud2018]

I rather enjoyed Level 7 Escape. I liked the feeling of being helpless and always needing to stay a step ahead of enemies and it became this cat and mouse game against the guards and aliens as you tried to avoid combat, which advances the end game if you KO every guard you encounter. Love the theme the campaign aspect of it I really enjoyed and the core game is great. The BIGGEST drawback for me was the event cards. With a game like Betrayal at the House on the Hill every event card informed the horror setting with kind of horror infused text, a short story and things like that. Every event card reinforced the theme. In Escape they just didn't. It unfortunately makes an otherwise solid game feel very robotic at times and makes the theme fall a bit flat. I still loved the game and I'm working my way through the campaign now but the cards needed to do a better job reinforcing the theme and enhancing the story.

[@thepeacockpodcast3880]

Zee, Dead of Winter has a co-op variant. Have you tried the game with that?

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Jason Talks about Games yeah, i already said that.

[@Geographus666]

Even though this variant exists, I can understand why players would not like it. IMO a good implemented traitor does so much to the gameplay and the fun and interaction and he keeps you on your toes the entire time, because you get paranoid to a certain degree and evaluate every single action done by everyone. A good example is Shadows over Camelot. I would flat out refuse to play that game without a (possible) traitor, because it's simply not as much fun. In the case of Dead of Winter I totally agree with Zee. It is not enough for me to ruin the game, but the fun I have playing it defenitely suffers from the "Everybody is a little bit traitor"-problem. And playing the co-op variant is simply not as much fun, because you feel that this is not the way the game was designed to be played.

[@Nate-iu5oh]

But when you play the co-op mode you are meant to play the objective on hardcore mode. Once you start with 18 zombies at the colony and your survivors start to die you'll forget all about the traitor aspect.

[@DarthSironos]

I haven't played The Others, what is it about it that he doesn't like? Does it glorify corruption points or?

[@khendar]

The accidental secret traitor thing worked for BSG Express because of the Battlestar theme. The show was full of suspicion and treachery, and innocents were frequently accused of being Cylons and unjustly punished for it. Taking the BSG theme out of Dark Moon removed that trope and so the traitor mechanic just ends up being annoying.

[@The97gtrs]

YES, thank you for the Dead of Winter mention, I just can't get with it

[@Straddllw]

Out of the list, I really love Dead of Winter, Colt Express, Eldritch Horror, The Others: 7 Sins, Lords of Xidit. And I'm also really looking forward to playing Seafall. This is like a list of my favourite games. Sigh ...

[@hardbathsalts3143]

You bear a striking resemblance to the internet historian.

[@captainsenate2668]

This is another video where it seems like they're hinting that Sam's favorite game, TI3 has been dethroned by something else like Blood Rage. It's on Tom's number 1. They hinted at this on their final spoiler free review of seafall as well.

[@jeffblye7913]

You guys should do this list for movies too, as part of your pop culture top 10s!

[@mescaLEO]

seconded!

[@robo3007]

And video games!

[@gamera2351]

Sucker Punch!! Remember how mind blowing that trailer was?

[@GrandElemental]

They already have a list of top 10 video games.

[@jeffblye7913]

But this list would be movies/video games that they wanted to like but didn't.

[@jaxommm]

My choice: Mystic Vale. It is absolutely horrendous, but I seem to be oddly alone in that opinion.

[@forsaken667]

I have a suggestion for a Top Ten video I would LOVE to see :) A Top Ten player count list! i.e. At No.10 you would discuss your best games at player count 10. At No.5 you would discuss your best games at player count 5 and so on!

[@TimGaastra]

Psst.... Avatar wasn't good. :)

[@Steve-L]

Top 10 Film!

[@bendfocuspro]

Tim Gaastra they are talking about Avatar The Last Airbender live action film right?

[@AndyP998]

Avatar was nice to look at, but nothing special actually. He should have said Intersteallar

[@koomo801]

Tim Gaastra "Avatar was good", says Sam. That quote should be placed over the beginning of every Sam game review. Would have saved me some time.

[@FranzBinder20]

I am one of the few people who love this movie :-) Was the most intense cinema experience ever.

[@MoneyMuuk]

City of Horror. RPS had a few articles about it that were just glowing, and it sounded great. Turns out that the game basically just plays itself. Zombies come out, there's an attack, can someone stop it? No? Who has the most characters still alive right now? He gets thrown out to be eaten. Hardly any decisions to be made at all, just pick on the person who's winning.

[@piratedoggames1332]

I love B-Sieged. The first few times I played it I didn't do well, but after playing a few more times, I developed some strategies, like having to sacrifice buildings to Molen attacks, or even allowing some of the heroes to get killed defending a side of the citadel in order to help the messenger return. Now I win around 75% of the time. I wouldn't want to win every time, I like having a challenge. I get this game isn't going to be for everyone, but it's definitely a game that needs several plays to get a feel for how to play it.

[@missmuscle]

Scythe - Everyone was going crazy about it and I sat down to play it and was just...bored. The theme is awesome but the gameplay is just too euro for my taste. I'm sure it's a great game for some people but it's not for me.

[@andrewmancini7790]

I thought I was the only one! I agree, awesome theme and illustrations (Tracing/plagiarism issues aside), technically proficient ...just so DRY mechanically. Not since Caylus since Ive played something so dry. Ill play it as my friends enjoy it but definitely wont pick it to play myself.

[@ashleyc3489]

Our little game group loves Rattle Battle. I know a more 'gamerly' perspective is to care about the randomness but we really never care who wins. We just love simulating a pirate adventure and grabbing loot and decking out our ships with outrageous upgrades. It's just fun!

[@pgaboury]

Really wanted to like Sheriff of Nottingham but none of the games I played really lifted. In the end, whatever the play group, the experience was "meh".

[@nikkis.2066]

I love Sheriff of Nottingham but it really requires to have the right kind of people to play. One of the crippling flaws of the game is where people don't ever bribe or counter bribe and the people who NEVER try to smuggle anything illegal. Makes for a passive aggressive and un-fun game when you have players that are essentially playing by themselves when others in the game are interacting with one another.

[@pixxelwizzard]

Absolutely agree. But my kids, nieces, and nephews love it so I can't trade it away.

[@Zejety]

A lot of PlaidHat games pop into my head for this list. They come up with games with unique mechanics/themes or combinations of such, but the execution often let something to be desired for me. Dungeon Run, City of Remnants, Dead of Winter... All decent games but all have their issues (for me).

[@annjourney14]

You're right on. Plaid Hat Games is probably the most over-rated company currently in business.

[@furleyx]

I love Feld. I love cards with different options. But I hated Bruges so much after I played it that I was shocked. So I played it a few times more, with both 2 players and 4...same result. There's so much love for this game and I just can't see it.

[@locust0311]

I'm curious if any of you retried B-Sieged with the 'fixed' rule book. Specifically with heroes now starting with 4 divine grace tokens and the variable difficulty levels. I picked it up in a trade recently and basically threw the rule book that came in the box away. Only played solo so far but it didn't seem nearly as random or impossible as folks who reviewed it on the original rule set made it out to be. Of course its on CMON for the shoddy QA for letting such glaring omissions go into production (that is if you believe that was the case and it wasn't a designer scramble to try fix a broken game and make it LOOK like a mistake). As for me, a couple of things I had high expectations for that fell flat were Robinson Crusoe (speaking of awful rule books, we spent more time trying to interpret things than actually playing the game) and Le Havre (ending felt programmed, not what I'm looking for a 3+ hour game, I'd try it again though to make sure it just wasn't that one play).

[@benco804]

I feel the same way you guys do about so many games. A game will come out with awesome artwork, an awesome theme and an awesome concept and then all it turns out to be is another way to push cubes or trade silk or something. So many games are just hollow or repeat experiences.

[@Thermalburn]

what does it mean when they say Euro-Gamey? I get that it means a game from europe but what does that entail

[@Steve-L]

Dungeon Lords: I wasn't sure how I would like the game. It's okay. I would play it again, but am in no hurry. I would call it a reverse Euro dungeon crawl. Cargo Noir: I thought it was okay, we had some arguments over rules, if we got the rules right, I would like to play it again. War of the Ring: The 1 LoR game I never bought when I was looking for LoR games before I was a board game enthusiast. I am glad I didn't as I wouldn't like a long warish style game. I will try Battle of the Five Armies though. Colt Express: I love this game. Tom is right, you could have someone do all the movement for you. But right on Board Game Breakfast, almost a year ago, someone had a segment where they remade the game with bigger trains. That is another option for Sam. Race for the Galaxy: Not due to the icons, but just the game play, it is 1 of 12 games on my "do not play" again list Dark Moon: I like Battlestar Gallactica, but it is a bit long, I need to try Dark Moon, I may or may not like it. We'll have to see. Tikal II: I am a big fan of Tikal, my 2nd favorite game, one I would most like to play with Zee, but I saw Tom's review of Tikal II and it didn't sound interesting, but neither did Tikal, I will have to try it. Dead of Winter: it took a 2nd play through for me to like it. Not zombie fan, but I like the game. It is currently my 25th favorite game. I understand Zee's complaint, it is definitey not a favorite part of my game, but I can overlook it. Would I like the game more without it, maybe. Tales of Arabian Nights: I quite enjoyed it, but only played half the game. I loved the story telling part, but disliked the game mechanics of the "game". Which there is not much of. I would rather play Above and Below. The Witcher Adventure Game: I wanted to hear Tom's thoughts on this, I saw his review. I disagreed with Tom on his Talisman comments, but I haven't played Witcher yet either...

[@MrRadialdrift]

You are right about Dead of Winter Zee. The list of things you have to do is so stupid. Also on the money about XCOM, my issue was the timed phase should have been the combat phase, not the planning phase.

[@jerrylazzara7925]

My wife and I play the Co-op variant of Dead of Winter which eliminates the secret objectives, and we think it's a much better game that way.

[@jesseokane347]

great call on Dead of Winter I personally found it more of a let down for the imbalance on the number of actions different players can have . we kept getting situations where one player would have like 8 dice while other players had 2

[@petermobius]

You guys rock! One of my fav top 10's after years of watching. Patreon tip..whatever you want to call it is heading your way. Thanks again!

[@ForvoQuizlet]

Is that a wheel in Die Macher? Anyone remember King Oil?

[@Mentat1231]

I've never played Dead of Winter, but I do agree conceptually with Zee, because everyone is rolling dice in Dark Moon, and so there's a chancey element overshadowing the good and the bad guys. Dark Moon seems to leave your behavior up to you (not chancey), but then essentially instructs you to behave in a shady way even of you're good.

[@jbboardgames5154]

Hey Tom, there are a few games I was disappointed in but I wanted to like it. One that stands out is Relic Runners. Days of Wonder is my favorite company by far because they released some of my favorite games, but Relic Runners is boring in a lot of ways. I play it but once in a blue moon. There is a broken strategy in the game which I feel like is a flaw and ruins it for me after I saw it. I loved it in the beginning but that strategy bugs me and I have seen it work twice and both times they won the game. The strategy is if you set up all your roots on the river in one continuous path (easy to do), where the toolboxes are. Then you move your toolboxes to the one that gives you point for each path on your player board. You will earn lots and lots of points without relic hunting. Yes toolboxes have to reset but that has to happen if other people want to further their experience of the game. You don't need to collect relics that much for this strategy to work. I could be wrong about it but eventually getting all three of your toolboxes there. Why wouldn't anyone want to do this strategy. Its not a bad game, just disappointing.

[@jfren484]

My gave for this list would be Pirate's Cove, from Days of Wonder. Back in 2010 I owned Ticket to Ride (base USA plus 1910), the TTR card game, and Colosseum (which I got FREE for Christmas 2009 by purchasing $50 worth of products on the DOW store - best promo ever!). Christmas of 2010 rolls around, and they do a promo for something free when you spend so much, so I bought Shadows Over Camelot, which I already knew I wanted, and Pirate's Cove. We've only played PC twice, but I was so underwhelmed both times that we haven't kept trying it.

[@Mr_Jumbles]

TALISMAN The time it has spent as a staple of the board gaming world. The love that players give it. The wealth of expansions and reprints. Has an faithful videogame version. Etc etc etc. It's a roll and move. Roll and see what happens to you. For a multiple hour rpg. Why? WHY?! ITS COMPLETELY RANDOM! You roll a die. Choose to go left or right, maybe in or out depending on if you rolled randomly to a specific spot. You then come to a place that you were forced to go to, usually you didn't want to go to. You then either draw a RANDOM card to see what you are then FORCED to fight. Or roll to see what happens to you, which is 75% bad. Which can be and include RESTART THE GAME FROM ZEEERRRROOO. "Oh you made it within only a few moves to the finish line? GO BACK TO START!" "Oh you painstakingly spent the last hour gathering stats and equipment and followers in order to win the game? The random enemy you were forced to fight rolled perfectly. Or another player forced everyone to lose a health. Lose everything. Start from zero. Try again." F*** THIS GAME! I hate this game and I hate anyone who thinks it's a good game.