Vidal VS Mailer - A Battle of Wit! | The Dick Cavett Show

The infamous feud between novelist Norman Mailer and writer Gore Vidal comes to a head in a battle of wit, sarcasm, and condescension with the audience and Janet Flanner (reluctantly) in the front row.
Who do you think "won" this clash?
Date aired - December 1st, 1971 - Gore Vidal, Norman Mailer, Janet Flanner
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Dick Cavett has been nominated for eleven Emmy awards (the most recent in 2012 for the HBO special, Mel Brooks and Dick Cavett Together Again), and won three. Spanning five decades, Dick Cavett’s television career has defined excellence in the interview format. He started at ABC in 1968, and also enjoyed success on PBS, USA, and CNBC.
His most recent television successes were the September 2014 PBS special, Dick Cavett’s Watergate, followed April 2015 by Dick Cavett’s Vietnam. He has appeared in movies, tv specials, tv commercials, and several Broadway plays. He starred in an off-Broadway production ofHellman v. McCarthy in 2014 and reprised the role at Theatre 40 in LA February 2015.
Cavett has published four books beginning with Cavett (1974) and Eye on Cavett (1983), co-authored with Christopher Porterfield. His two recent books -- Talk Show: Confrontations, Pointed Commentary, and Off-Screen Secrets (2010) and Brief Encounters: Conversations, Magic moments, and Assorted Hijinks(October 2014) are both collections of his online opinion column, written for The New York Times since 2007. Additionally, he has written for The New Yorker, TV Guide, Vanity Fair, and elsewhere.
#DickCavett #NormanMailer #GoreVidal #JanetFlanner #WomensLib #Feminism #Writers #NewYork #Awkward #Liberals #Conservatives #TheDickCavettShow

[@TheDickCavettShow]

Who do you think "won" this clash?

[@michaelwilson2340]

Flanner without question. With humor and old school class. Plus the fact that Mailer was verbally whipped by a woman made it more satisfying. You just know he was burning inside. Cavett rightfully had his shots at Norman as well. And Gore masterfully kept his comments to a minimum and let Norman bury himself. In addition points added to an audience who could hold their own too.

[@yuntakukai1002]

Trump

[@marcy_law]

​@@yuntakukai1002 bro who tf are you?

[@sepiae]

Why, not for the first time did Mr. Mailer proved himself to be a *diva* . You don win against divas, you endure them. There's a degree of the easy win by letting the diva rattle away that is just *too* easy to be counted as a win. In that sense Mr. Vidal may have won, but it was a victory achieved by leaning back and quietly marveling as the only thing he really had to do.

[@Ceerads]

I think Mailer is absolutely insufferable. I only wish he were still alive to see how his star as a writer has dimmed (not that his bloated ego would allow him to acknowledge that). I think of three words when I think of him: Jack Henry Abbott. Mailer was a misogynist, and his books will fade into obscurity. I think Cavett “won.”

[@MrUndersolo]

Mailer once punched out Vidal at a party. When Vidal got up, he said, “Once again, words fail Norman Mailer.”

[@madProgenitorDeity]

source?

[@MrUndersolo]

madProgenitorDeity They are many biographies that have covered this.

[@timmcelroy2188]

@@MrUndersolo which ones?

[@paullangton-rogers2390]

No it was a headbutt backstage during this very show when he said that.

[@Brianbeesandbikes]

@@madProgenitorDeity that took 10 seconds ... For more obscure subjects I agree tagging w links is a better way to go, but a topic like this is kinda easy to be your own researcher .... www.telegraph.co.uk/books/authors/gore-vidal-and-his-bitter-feuds/

[@fanboy2015]

Can you imagine Jimmy Fallon with these two? Nervous hysterical laughter saying “come you guys. HAHAHAhahaHa knock it off haHaaahha!”.

[@nickyemana1159]

Jimmy Fallon? Jimmy Fallon who never read a book in his life Jimmy Fallon who does not have a intellectual bone in body No I cannot Jimmy Fallon shallow vacant stooge of the philistine establishment

[@poordefewnceallways5745]

or any of the late night hosts. It would have been good to have had Christopher Hitchens as the referee.

[@williamknell864]

"Let's play Pictionary, gang!" "How do you like my Norman Mailer wig??!!"

[@bogman192]

jimmy fallon and his ilk will be brought up on cultural crimes to humanity one day.

[@SenorZorrozzz]

George Alexander right.

[@dianahohimer1107]

"Perhaps you'd like two more chairs to contain your giant intellect ". Best line delivered from a talk show host. Ever.

[@kfrerix9777]

Why don't you fold it five ways and put it where the sun don't shine." absolutely shocked him!

[@darillus1]

@@kfrerix9777 🤣🤣 that killed me

[@bigtex4058]

Norman was a bit full of himself.

[@michaellangan4450]

@@bigtex4058 He even wears boots to give him some height.

[@morganophelia5963]

LOL

[@JamesSmith-vb5xr]

Honestly, the fact that this was left to go on as long as it did, is a testament to Dicks true dedication to open and free speech. Beautifully handled.

[@paradiddle1]

“Perhaps you’d like two more chairs to contain your giant intellect.” 😂😂😂

[@SymphonyBrahms]

"And your flabby butt".

[@hyacinthlynch843]

" and ego."

[@rickrick5041]

Very funny

[@0funnyguy0]

Yes, a great line!

[@prince.mushroom]

With Mailer and Vidal playing these outrageous characters, this was the best line of the show. I'm ever in awe of Dick Cavett.

[@edmundblackaddercoc8522]

'We all know I stabbed my wife' just casually thrown into the conversation lmao

[@ThePiratemachine]

William Boroughs played William Tell with his wife. What happened to America's celebrities? ANSWER: America.

[@selvamthiagarajan8152]

Yes noticed that😅

[@JasonMichaelKoehler]

“And I’m very very bored.” That’s legendary

[@PayDaVig1]

Who's the snobby broad?

[@capitanfuturo594]

Dick Cavett was the greatest host in the history of American television. Dick Cavett is too underrated these days

[@p4pgoatc.j.watson679]

Mailer looks like Bilbo when Frodo won’t give back The Ring.

[@TreforTreforgan]

P4Pgoat C.J.Watson spot on!

[@JasonWrightArt]

haha

[@thedancingveganatheist6310]

Damn. Almost identical. Seriously.

[@billrusso8250]

He does!

[@wynnemcc]

your comment made me laugh out loud

[@kevinlewis808]

"Perhaps you would like two more chairs to contain your giant intellect." -Dick Cavett for the win.

[@mickeytete9036]

I would like whole Madison Square Garden

[@ThommyKane]

dick always wins. He was and still is a fucking genius. lol :)

[@MalAnders94]

@@ThommyKane His best was '' I apologize to any of your followers for calling them a bigot, who are not a bigot''

[@maddymud]

Kevin Lewis - I thought Cavett’s comeback about cribbing the ass shoving retort from Tolstoy was the sharpest and the audience didn’t quite get it.

[@dontbefatuousjeffrey2494]

@@maddymud he was erudite AND witty - how many in his field can claim either, let alone both, today? (ok Stephen Colbert so sorry but still not QUITE the same thing EVEN given that great Eliot reference you gave us the other day)

[@robjohnston1433]

Absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to even imagine a chat show like this now! It's all Hollywood "actors" for 3 minutes, then the next one. This is FANTASTIC!!!

[@RC-bl2pm]

Yeah this long form is gone from television but it's common now on podcasts.

[@jimmiemercer8930]

Very well put!

[@Nerdiness1985]

That's why you should have stopped watching TV 20 years ago and simply just have actively searched for content online.

[@ralphadamo1857]

You raise an important issue about the changing of the times. In a recent podcast interview between Bill Maher and Dana Carvey, Dana remarked that Johnny Carson was the perfect Tonight Show host for his time and Jay Leno was for his time as well. Dana then when on to say that in Johnny's day, he'd have a writer on his show, often toward the end. But when Jay took over, that tradition stopped. Dana said that in Jay's era--and today's as well--audiences would get bored if a writer was the guest.

[@julianmarsh8384]

@@ralphadamo1857 Well that is the problem with American society....

[@spb7883]

Four egos walk onto a stage...and that only describes Mailer.

[@ImGoingSupersonic]

Lol

[@parkerstroh6586]

You would imagine they’d all need to hide underneath a trench coat, but his big head is room enough!

[@Ceerads]

👏

[@georgejohnson5904]

This is the epitome of “Never interrupt your enemy while they’re making a mistake”

[@johnpatterson4272]

Well said.

[@gordons-alive4940]

Except for the occasional sick burn.

[@marciocouto3543]

very precise, my friend.

[@CyanideSublime]

Agreed.

[@maliant16]

Was that Sun Tzu?

[@petergreen2552]

Woody Allen in Sleeper_ "Norman Mailer donated his ego for medical research". 😆

[@williamcoppock308]

I have no idea who this woman is but I absolutely love the way she conducts herself. She's proof that not every person when they reach a certain age starts to slow down mentally

[@steveernst6342]

Janet Flanner was a brilliant journalist who lived in Paris during the rise of Nazis and fascism, and came up with the "Hitler as the vegetarian, non-smoker non-drinker - and yet a monster. I too want to know more about her. Her papers are in the Library of Congress.

[@shrodingerscat4191]

She's vapid

[@katherinerooks6984]

@@steveernst6342 Her collected works are available " Paris Was Yesterday, 1925-1939" and her biography Genêt by by Brenda Wineapple are both worth a read.

[@AleisterCrowleyMagus]

@@steveernst6342 how utterly pathetic that we didn’t get to hear more from her, with her inctedible history and intelligence, while Mailer blathers on like the useless drunk that he was…

[@melissaking6019]

Cavett is the best talk show host ever. He's keenly intelligent, witty, has done his research, is fully prepared, allows his guests to speak without constantly interrupting them, is impeccably polite, and maintains a relaxing, respectful atmosphere for his audience.

[@prince.mushroom]

The absolute best.

[@jlongobardy1612]

And, evidently, not a pusillanimous man. But one with pride and honor and the instinct to defend both.

[@prince.mushroom]

Carson looks like such a stuffed shirt next to Cavett

[@pearlsammo1638]

@@prince.mushroom Completely different …an apples and oranges comparison. If you’ve actually read Cavett, you’ll know he often called his former boss for advice. They were actually rather tight given their in-common Nebraska upbringing.

[@lockandloadlikehell]

He's no Dave

[@kevinprinceofdarkne]

' Don't be autobiographical all the time ' is brainy for ' I know you are but what am I '

[@johnbull1568]

@@chriskent3640 Same here lol. I thought that someone else would comment on it and here I am ;-)

[@armybeef68]

6:50

[@phukyu9016]

He had at least three of them this show. Vidal was off his game and under pressure from a drunk dude, credit to Mailer.

[@Kathy-iq7pt]

😊

[@rawantafech]

"Small mind, no manner" "Don't be autobiographical all the time" lmao

[@superman-lp9ct]

@@TheModjack Wtf are you even saying.

[@SkinnyCoutreux2244]

That was a read

[@rawantafech]

@@superman-lp9ct I guess he was trying to quote Gore at 6:55

[@redlobster4841]

@@superman-lp9ct lol... you need a little bit more calm in your life my man

[@MrShanester117]

Rawan Tafech Matter not manner

[@trs4437]

“I have to tell you a quote from Tolstoy?” Cavett was the best.

[@DreFromMaine8472]

Dick Cavett is still alive, he's currently 86. And he's appeared in a whole bunch of movies and TV shows as himself!

[@Ma_Ba]

Saw a pbs docu on his house burning down and being rebuilt out on Long Island. He became a widower, sadly, too.

[@MitchClement-il6iq]

Forrest Gump!

[@TheMichelex20]

Dick Cavett’s show is such a national gem. Many of these historical figures are long gone and we can mine these shows for historical context and research in pop culture even. Just fascinating.

[@maliant16]

Yeah, I am addicted to these. I honestly can’t remember how I first stumbled upon these. I had no idea who Dick Cavett was. Now they pop up all the time and I have to watch them. This one I’ve seen like 10 times and had to study Norman Mailer and Gore Vidal’s history a bit because it’s so fascinating.

[@thaddeushawley6523]

I wonder if something similar could be recreated today.

[@vic7939]

Absolutely true. I'm not American, on my 30's and from Portugal. So, different language, time and background. I somewhat sometimes end watching a Dick Cavet interviews with celebrities/famous people that I'm interested of learning. For instance, the classic Ali and Frazier episode, the Orson Welles, etc. I really appreciate the the witt and the way Cavet gives the guest to truly speak.

[@WilliamGarland]

"Look, you're going to be having dinner with Groucho tonight if you don't beat it!"

[@kamuelalee]

Wish the country had that same level of intellectualism today. It sadly does not.

[@waynewright5023]

"You two act as if you're the only ones here. They are here. He's here. I'm here, and I'm quite honestly becoming very, very bored.."--KUDOS TO MS. FLANNER!!!

[@dontbefatuousjeffrey2494]

she's a somewhat forgotten legend - an awesome woman, and here clearly showing her fundamental lack of egotism but still, a deliciously shrewd interjector lol I see Vidal really connecting with her in this. He just can't help but smile.

[@joshm2690]

love it

[@neaituppi7306]

Well, she is the voice of the people that just like social routine. The reason this interview is still remembered and even watched years later by people that are appalled by it, is because the routine was broken.

[@joshm2690]

@@neaituppi7306 That's very interesting . It a shame the routine is back . This interview is just amazing . I love it .

[@Mizukitron]

That little kiss she blew at him after that line was absolutely devastating

[@deirdre108]

I saw Mailer on a book tour in 1970 and he was as caustic with the audience on the tour as he was on this show.

[@rl7012]

Three brilliant guests, a genius host and a lucky audience. I wish tv chat shows nowadays was so honest and real.

[@highwaystar3780]

I don't think that audience knew how lucky they were because they were as dumb as a fucking Rock

[@jammin6816]

“There is nothing so stupid as an educated man, if you get him off the thing he was educated in.” Will Rogers

[@trentrez6643]

Doctors are well-educated people. Would you call them "stupid"? Thats a ridiculous quote

[@jamstonjulian6947]

@@trentrez6643 Obviously some doctors are stupid. Also you missed the point.

[@trentrez6643]

@@jamstonjulian6947 The "point" is educated people are only knowledgeable about 1 subject. A ridiculous notion

[@jamstonjulian6947]

@@trentrez6643 I think you're taking it very literally and still missing the point, which is that even the most intellectual or educated of people can appear foolish when going outside their remit, which many intellectuals are wont to do because of their ego. And "educated" in this instance is a byword for intellectual, not literally anyone that has had some education.

[@mstalcup]

@D JL No it isn't. Read what you wrote. Take out the word "not" in "subjects they are not educated in" and it will make sense.

[@c.s.hayden3022]

Dick Cavett was great because he didn’t just use the talk show as a promotion machine. He was interested in people’s ideas and he let them explain.

[@jpgrumbach8562]

Yes, that was impressive. No "it's me & all about me" at all.

[@Dyljim]

@@jpgrumbach8562 Well except for Mailer's rhetoric lol

[@dedosdigital]

A shallow liberal snob , and here firmly on side with Vidal

[@jsb4812]

I don't agree. He nicely positioned himself with the "good guys". It would have been more interesring and brave if he attempted to create some sort of balance.

[@perspii2808]

His interview with Dali showcases an interesting alternative to that perspective He conducted himself well here though

[@blacksand357]

Mailer demonstrates how thin skinned he was and Vidal goads him in the same manner which led Buckley to almost punch him. Janet and Dick initially not taking sides until they did was a great comic relief. This was an interesting presentation, the likes of which we unfortunately haven't seen in ages.

[@ZacD]

Thick skinned, I think the opposite actually, that's how he got so goaded

[@ZacD]

Thick skinned, I think the opposite actually, that's how he got so goaded

[@flanplan5903]

This whole clip is fascinating for me. Just the entire interaction between Gore Vidal and Dick Cavett, Mailer talking over everyone else, the audience heckling Mailer, the insults between everyone, the uncomfortable atmosphere, Mailer’s almost bragging nature about stabbing his wife, Janet standing up to Mailer respectively.

[@northwestprof60]

The only thing different between this hot mess and a junior high schoolyard fight is the number of syllables in the words used.

[@elisabethpine3420]

I listened to Mailer's delight in expressing his distain, his disgust for "intellectual pollution," a term he possibly invented and certainly revelled in, constantly using it as if he could not get enough of it, and he vulgarly accused Vidal of being guilty of it. I felt that it was self-defining, that Miller accusing others of it was a fine example of the pot calling the kettle black and typical of a narcissist personality.

[@gherieg.1091]

@@elisabethpine3420 You don’t get it, sorry to say. Vidal is a backstabber. Mailer was intending to hash out in person what Vidal was doing through the pen, demonizing Mailer by way of countering his thoughts, both in print. An intellectually cowardly behavior. And you could see that play out right here in this treasure of a clip. Mailer is laying his cards on the table ... while Gore ( what an apt name ) was playing to the audience’s naïveté. Much like the virtue signaling Rampage of the Woke now. Vidal was a precursor of their chicanerous tactics ! And look at the effects of that bilious strategy ... they’re driving America into the ground !

[@Polo-po]

@@gherieg.1091 Please - Shirley you can't be serious. Surely, you jest - so spare us.

[@gherieg.1091]

@@Polo-po I stand by every word I said. And who is Shirley ? Didn’t you hear I’ve changed my name ?

[@marciocouto3543]

"Small mind. No matter." "Don't be autobiographical all the time." Damn! That was savage!

[@wavetech_]

we can be at least certain about one thing...this -in part- is where the Hitchens' wit came from

[@BarrelShape]

Yes, the "I know you are, but what am I?" of literary feuds.

[@henridobbs2423]

Barrel Shape well contrasted.

[@CarlosFernandesS]

was just watching a roast battle in comedy Central but that was brutal

[@ThalassicMeasure]

@MastodonManiac Interesting Mailer says no manners when every person in that room would describe Mailer that way but not Gore Vidal.

[@RockSleeper]

Gore: *doesnt bring up wife stabbing * Norman: oh so your just going to bring up that time I stabbed my wife huh, that's so unfair you jerk!

[@RockSleeper]

@Theocritus I must have missed it.

[@earth2death]

Gore was sneak dissing , he was ahead of his time lmaoo

[@devo196047]

I think Vidal was hinting at it in a way that would have been pretty obvious at the time. I think that is a form of dishonesty. It might win people to your side in an argument, but intellectually, it is dishonest.

[@ThePiratemachine]

What about Mr. Boroughs playing William tell with his wife?

[@Lark1610]

@@devo196047 Well, then he played Mailer incredibly well. Because Mailer jumped the gun. There is no way to say what were Vidal's intentions. And he can easily act as he did not have that in mind. Because either Mailer paved the way or Vidal made him do that.

[@AleisterCrowleyMagus]

As a retired English professor, I can say quite happily that Mailer is almost entirely forgotten as a writer - his poor little ego would need several bandaids. He blathers about Hemingway but Hemingway is still taught and Mailer is rightly forgotten. He wasted so much time here and everywhere pushing himself and his sad little ego and his self-absorption led to nothing - and no one cares about his prose.

[@dougie1968]

It's all about ego.

[@Ceerads]

Thank you.

[@tonylord9917]

Oh dear Lord! A person who calls themselves AleisterCrowleyMagus is blathering about little ego and terrible writing. I never particularly cared that much for Norman Mailer but anybody that has any sense that wasn't just a typical humorless liberal would see that he's playing to a crowd which was already slightly hostile to him. I found him to be very funny and found it equally hilarious that the crowd, who would eventually be the parents of present-day snowflakes, we're so easily vexed by him.

[@JohnBrownsBody]

@@tonylord9917 In what world was Mailer not coming off as a total thin-skinned snowflake? He was practically bursting into tears about how unfair the world is to his supposed genius. Ridiculous.

[@jarredthorpe846]

From your perspective, would you say that Mailers work just didn’t hold up? Or never particularly good in the first place?

[@latinguy67]

this level of conversation would NEVER happen in 2024. Kudos to Miss Flanner in her delivery of "I'm becoming very, very bored!"

[@annmcdonough5625]

Mailer looks like he wanted to hit her.

[@BookClubDisaster]

Jimmy Fallon would have asked them to play a game of charades.

[@lola1987fudgeyouu]

😂😂😂😂

[@mrdankhimself]

People don’t watch Fallon for intellectual stimulation. They just want something to giggle at as they doze off.

[@nolanolivier6791]

Jimmy Fallon in the same room as Mailer and Vidal would be entertaining, just to watch Fallon squirm and flounder like a beached trout... the cringe would be record-breaking.

[@HighlanderNorth1]

@@nolanolivier6791 .... And the sad thing is that Fallon is a genius and a saint compared with the other hyper-partisan sociopaths and narcissists like Jimmy Kimmel, Amy Schumer, Steven Colbert, Trevor Noah, Jim Jeffries and Samantha Bee... None of them are funny to regular people. They serve no other purpose than to continue the spread of left wing propaganda deep into the night(because it's not enough to see it all day long on the "news" networks)! Left wing indoctrination should be 24/7/365!

[@AmritGrewal31]

Which is fair enough as none of his guests are even half as thoughtful. Those guests are merely plastic eye candies.

[@JoeyDamocles]

This clip is like The Jerry Springer Show for intelligent people.

[@kamuelalee]

Loved Cavett's show.

[@nickjohnson6368]

@Frank Lemarin Oh come now, Mailer wasn't a complete fraud. You don't think he is likable at all? I agree Vidal would be unknown today, or he would have to be a history professor

[@loischase3752]

Well done.

[@TheRootedWord]

All of their intellect is pretense. I am the ONLY intellect on the planet. ;-)

[@Maxyshadow]

ha ha ha so funny!

[@dansvideovault2186]

Wow, this is one of the most intense interviews I’ve ever seen I’m liking this one.

[@paudsmcmack3117]

Dick Cavett is still alive. I do not know why his show was never brought back. No garbage, no dancing poodles, proper discussion show.

[@GoodmanMIke59]

Dick Cavett's show has never been brought back because Americans no longer have the attention span, the vocabulary, nor the intellectual curiosity required to view and digest it.

[@paudsmcmack3117]

@@GoodmanMIke59 well said...they need dancing poodles and idiots like Jimmy Fallon

[@foldsofblubber]

@@GoodmanMIke59 I'd have to agree with that. It was discussions at a higher level, not idiot late night pundits trying (and failing) to show everyone how clever and hip they are.

[@chayo4537]

@@GoodmanMIke59 so are you in that flock by default? Or are you from overseas? a 1st world country? Cause you know that's the closest to the clouds

[@jimdavison4077]

Because its not marketable. Not when confronted with modern shock programing it doesn't hold a large audience.

[@books-4-bums255]

Perhaps you’d like two more chairs to contain your giant intellect

[@MrCarltonjsmith]

Wasn't that just brilliant?

[@darreneriksen]

That was so perfect.

[@paulfroelich1024]

Hahahaha

[@lukeskywalker6809]

Dick Cavett is a class act.

[@rt2117]

😂

[@pepelemoko01]

If you wondering why we don't have talk shows guest like this, think about why we don't have audiences to appreciate them.

[@donluchitti]

naw. It's the shows because the people at the top of these networks only ditched these shows for advertising dollars.

[@kerstinnorberg8323]

I think this format has moved to KZbin and podcasts instead of network television

[@frankpeter6851]

And the reason we don't have audiences to appreciate them is because the media companies have had a hand in dumbing-down the General Public

[@tdunph4250]

That's kind of an ass backwards way of analyzing it. But it IS valid. The talk show hosts have to dumb everything down nowadays for most of the viewership but on the other hand, it seems to me that the average celebrity really doesn't have anything interesting to say anymore. Also, most people watching the talk shows are unable to concentrate on anything for any more time then it would take for an explosion to happen. People need to be stimulated constantly and not in the intellectual way. It's supply and demand both ways. Idiotic talk show hosts will probably bring in dumb-ass viewership. Nowadays, unless someone is a Lib-Tard, they wouldn't be too interested in watching Jimmy Kimmel. Why is there such a huge cap between the talk show hosts of today and icons such as Dick Cavett, Merv Griffin and Johnny Carson?? It's not even close and that's sad.

[@photo161]

or a society that produces them...

[@loricolbo5916]

I loved how Vidal never ruffled. His few volleys were executed with precision. He is the only one who did not visibly get upset. He wanted a discussion, not an insult war. Mailer was a deeply disturbed human being. I've never read his work and don't care too. Apparently, he was a great writer with controversial views. I was worried for Ms. Flanner for a moment. Notice how Mailer postured toward her when she told him she was bored with him. That's a tactic abusive people use to intimidate. She had pluck and good for her for not backing down. What a truly sad display of a bitter and broken man.

[@ricardocantoral7672]

Vidal and Mailer had a very volatile relationship but when it's all said and done, both men respected each other's writings.

[@tuanjim799]

Mailer had issues (as many people do), but there's no denying he was a brilliant artist.

[@SgtPeppersLonelyHeartsClubBand]

Mailer stabbed his wife.

[@tuanjim799]

@@SgtPeppersLonelyHeartsClubBand That changes nothing about what I said.

[@mrt601]

He lost me when he moved forward with a act of aggressive behavior the display of a truly weak man I'm sure he picks and chooses who he flexes on if you wouldn't flex on everyone you shouldn't flex on anyone

[@RichardKoenigsberg]

One of the most entertaining moments on any talk show at any time.

[@jaydarklighter9441]

"Perhaps you'd like two more chairs to hold your giant intellect"

[@JSB1882]

That was the real quip that was hysterical. Nicely done

[@brianyoung3]

@@frankpeter6851 I don't think you need any help Frank, we don't really have an honest argument or prize fight going on here because 3 of the participants are too well bred to engage and the other is the self declared Champ and wants to have it out. The dance, as Flanner says, is a bore and I agree.

[@paulbaran549]

He puts Mailer's intellectual arrogance into a cocked hat.

[@tonyc9460]

TFW too intelligent

[@alexklaus8438]

48 years old! Mailer looked liked a senior citizen.

[@stevencramsie9172]

Everyone looked older back then. The hair, the terrible makeup, and likely smoking and drinking.

[@christophermullaley1597]

Hard living.

[@grugposter605]

No they didn’t

[@TranscendianIntendor]

No one can beat The Naked & the Dead excepting Dos Passos who went all in with Nixon. His writing just terrible by then.

[@jimbobjimjim6500]

@@stevencramsie9172 And much higher testosterone levels......

[@somethingyousaid5059]

Every so many months I come back and watch this video again.

[@yousefmohammedayub1798]

This interview was petty but intellectual. Tedious yet rich. I feel smarter watching this show than what I have seen on TV in the last 10 years. Cavett was the best host on TV and it has gone down hill without him.

[@airmark02]

"I'm becoming very very bored" ~ Janet Flanner was a class act

[@purrehype]

*blows kiss* hahahah

[@kayzyr9442]

Yes, and Mailer was insufferable!

[@RawOlympia]

@@kayzyr9442 he stabbed his wife!!!!

[@kayzyr9442]

@@RawOlympia Just looked it up. His wife was almost killed, and Mailer only got 3 months probation 😳!!

[@jarneyfs1]

A tiresome well harrowed septic old ditch.

[@chrisstclair3954]

Cavett "perhaps you'd like two more chairs to contain your giant intellect' lol perfect.

[@terence6747]

Mailer: "It was the voice of legions." Me: *DEAD* 😂😂😂😂

[@Abdul-Y]

it is weird how intellectual and articulate those people were and how free and spontaneous that show was... I wonder what happened and made us regress to the quality of tv that we have today

[@deirdre108]

Yes, and this was (if I remember correctly) weekday late afternoon network family TV.

[@d0wnboy]

Too many channels needing content to fill. Not enough talent in existence.

[@BayofPigs29]

Media consolidation. The failure to enforce anti trust laws.

[@boztos6025]

Wokeness.

[@MaisyMimi]

Boiled down to pretty people reading safe politically correct scripts and constant switching camera angels to make it less boring 💩

[@Polyfusia]

I've never seen a clip so full of Oscar Wilde-esque barbs and quips. Legendary.

[@clarencearnold2137]

Coming from Gore no doubt 😅

[@EndoftheTownProductions]

"How to make friends" by Norman Mailer.

[@Ozzy_Bitez]

This is pure gold from over 50 years ago! A panel with Gore Vidal, Lillian Hellman & Norman Mailer ! Dick Cavett's show for that time was amazing. Actual conversations, lots of give and take, and not polluted with commercial breaks every 5 minutes. Watched this show when I was 15 - 18 and it made me get out and read more about these people and their works. No internet back in the 1970s, so it forced me to really get out there to seek it out and try to understand their stance on things. Thank you for finding this and sharing! BTW, Gore was Jackie Kennedy's step brother by marriage, and they couldn't stand each other.

[@therealhousewifeofballtown]

The lady on the show with them was Janet Flanner .

[@normagrimstad8869]

I thought it was Lillian Hellman too at first, but she was a smaller woman.

[@carl44acq]

That's not Lillian Hellman.

[@parkerstroh6586]

That Tolstoy line was priceless!

[@ArtsAlign]

Mailer needs another chair for that gigantic chip on his shoulder.

[@hayleyava7398]

Hehe true.

[@insanitysreign6195]

OOF

[@KevinLinguine]

Mailer: "small mind, no matter" Vidal: "no don't be autobiographical all the time" Damn. Lol

[@lawrencegriffiniii3954]

Believe that is going straight to the memory bank. Straight razor sharp.

[@watts111]

Most of Vidal's "retorts" seem to consist of variations on, "I know you are, but what am I?"

[@jonglenister3268]

@@watts111 I thought I was the only one who noticed. These comments are driving me crazy. People are so impressed with smarmyness they dont actually listen to what's being said.

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

@@jonglenister3268 exactly

[@erichuang7524]

@@jonglenister3268 sometimes swarmyness suffices to entertain

[@jacklondon4292]

Norman: Why don't you look at your question sheet and ask your question? Dick: Why don't you fold it five ways and put it where the moon don't shine? Norman: *Norman.exe has stopped working*

[@ujean56]

Discussions like this on mainstream media have not happened for a very long time and will never happen again. It's like we're watching something from another planet.

[@clarencearnold2137]

It reflected the idiocy of the blathering class at the time

[@mandrews412]

"Perhaps you'd like two more chairs to contain your giant intellect." Great line by Cavett.

[@boeing_opal]

Vidal: Well, I'd like to get into some of Norman's writing here, ah, let me-- Mailer: EVERYONE KNOWS I STABBED MY WIFE EIGHT YEARS AGO ALRIGHT?!!!!!!!!

[@hazzajonesmusic27]

I wasn't going to talk about that ..gold

[@roma5869]

That was definitely the part of the interview where I knew Mailer lost it.

[@W00KER]

Absolutely hilarious

[@kp9952]

Tell me, Sean, why you had to misquote Gore in order to make a nothing point.

[@lennyrose5852]

Sharon Jensen “These two”? How did Vidal behave like a child or worse?

[@EyeMixMusic]

Mailer might be the cleverest fool I've ever seen. Incredibly articulate, well read, yet incapable of understanding why everyone in the room hates him, or how to do anything about it.

[@ShurlockHolmes]

I think you miss the point. Trying to understand it and caring are two different things.

[@EyeMixMusic]

@@ShurlockHolmes You think he doesn't care? You could not be more wrong. Mailer had a massive ego, and the derision of the crowd infuriated him. If he "didn't care" he would not have responded with such scowling, seething anger. He couldn't STAND that they hated him - or, more to the point, that they weren't lavishing him with praise.

[@donreid6399]

What is going on here? I've always heard that KZbin comments were the worst of the worst, but I've read nothing here but thoughtful, intelligent commentary. Gives me faith in humanity.

[@HummerLove]

"Don't be autobiographical all the time." Booyah!!!

[@phukyu9016]

I know you are you said you are but what am I?

[@baileymoore7779]

That was a brilliant burn. Vidal has an awesome wit.

[@g-girl9867]

This comment is much like when we were children, “I know you are, but what am I”?

[@NxDoyle]

My lord, Gore's retort to Norman's request that they close out the crowd and talk only to each other was magnificent.

[@sampathgunasena3781]

"We all know that I stabbed my wife years ago..." wtf that was unexpected lmao.

[@patrickbyrne9971]

The twist: There was no audience, just voices in Mailer's head.

[@ThePiratemachine]

Come on baby, let's do The Twist ~ it goes like this... interview

[@fhjhjhgjghj7353]

Alternative title: “Norman Mailer ABSOLUTELY DESTROYS himself”

[@HuxleyWasRight]

Cavett nailed him with the Tolstoy quote! lol

[@jimnewcombe7584]

It was a joke though presumably - I doubt Tolstoy would say any such thing!

[@philippeters6994]

In the early 70's, I took a friend to the Little Rock Airport for her flight back to New York. As chance would have it, I was in the process of reading " Of a Fire on the Moon", by Normal Mailer. Norman Mailer and Norris Church were in the waiting area for the same flight. I introduced myself to Mr. Mailer, who promptly invited me to fly with him and Ms. Church to his home in NYC.

[@humbleopinion1499]

This was a fascinating piece of television. We really DON'T get such interviews like this any more. Dick Cavett let both speakers speak freely and at length. Leaving the audience and viewers with much food for thought which is unlike many "interview" or "chat" shows nowadays.

[@cngotham4111]

Because mostly everything is so separated. You got the liberal places and the conservative places. So no TV will not show much of this but KZbin still has convos like this if you look for it.

[@humbleopinion1499]

That's why I hardly watch "free to air" TV these days and spend most of my screen time on KZbin.@@cngotham4111

[@krazymindreader]

Norman Mailer doesn't shake his hand in the beginning, that's a shit thing to do even if you don't like the person.

[@randyrysdale852]

yeah, be a man

[@lpsp442]

Mailer was (evidently) very, very angry with Vidal, to the point of approach a loss of self control.

[@thinredline2795]

No, it's an honest thing to do

[@deadheaders86]

I might hesitate to shake Vidals hand if he washed immediately before, but both have reall interesting points.

[@bassinblue]

@@thinredline2795 I can understand not shaking a man's hand if he slept with your wife but if he was just doing his job...kinda makes a fool out of ones self.

[@TheEvdoggy]

This is so bizarre. Just schoolyard bickering with a thesaurus.

[@carlodave9]

End Boss A fitting epigraph for the episode would be, "I'm rubber, you're glue; whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you."

This is NY, and the E Coast chattering establishment writ large...always has been.

[@metatronatra]

End Boss it's so funny how much hot air and ego can convince the public you're an intellectual when in reality most of this is just insecure windbags vying for some sort of Oscar wilde-esque supremacy in snarky rebuttals

[@augustomontes8202]

"Just schoolyard bickering with a thesaurus" LMAO

[@nitwitromney]

@End Boss: Perfectly put!

[@DreFromMaine8472]

According to an episode of Frasier, Gore Vidal "hated everything". And that was done when he was still alive! But I sure did like him in this. Also, he wrote the 1968 novel Myra Breckinridge and completely disavowed the 1970 film version directed by Michael Sarne, calling it "an awful joke", which it was. Later on he wrote the screenplay for the movie Caligula and director Tinto Brass and producer Bob Guccione turned it into something completely different that he did not approve of, and he also disavowed it as well. That happened to him twice! And he not only feuded with Norman Mailer, he also had feuds with Truman Capote and William F. Buckley as well. But it's here where I thought he was really great and I now want to read some of his literary works at some point!

[@WVRSpenceWestVirginiaRebel]

"Why don't you fold it five ways and put it where the moon don't shine?"

[@sayno2lolzisback]

"Which of us has ever met a genius?" To understand how humble a question that was look up Janet's Parisian years and see the kind of people she was hanging out with...

[@MinimunWage]

it's especially infuriating she's decades older than Mailer and he's treating her like a child, no other reason than just to assert his ego

[@NiceGuy678]

John Hurley Mailer had no problem making himself look stupid in this video.

[@denisdaly1708]

Mailer complaining that he got no time to speak, never stops talking.

[@serious7179]

Thats how those types usually are...they cry foul while knocking someone down

[@jubalcalif9100]

Ya got that right !! Mailer is clearly itching for a fight !! The mature thing to do would be to just ignore what he thought Vidal was saying or writing about him !

[@bluecollarlit]

LOL.

[@razzledingle]

THIS is glorious live television of a bygone era! Norman Mailer and Gore Vidal (and Dick Cavett) are LEGENDS!

[@petermills542]

It haddened occurred to me that this went out 'live'!! That really adds to the sense of a bygone era!

[@liarspeaksthetruth]

At least they're still talking. DC is still compelling TV. I love the episodes with Orson Welles sharing stories. Truly brilliant. Thanks to DC and the team for making these available.

[@thegoatelaborates9921]

Vidal was such a master at softly helping idiots make fools of themselves in public I love it. And Janet Flanner just sitting there throwing shade at Mailer, this segment is a gem.

[@ricardocantoral7672]

Vidal also nursed feuds for the sake of publicity.

[@malasartes6262]

Mailer is the idiot? You should reevaluate yourself

[@TyrSkyFatherOfTheGods]

@@malasartes6262 He certainly made an ass of himself in THIS appearance.

[@manateestation5442]

Gore Vidal is a Jussie Smollet. A Jodi Arias. A Nick Cannon. A Stephen Colbert. A Joe Biden. A Donald Trump.

[@manateestation5442]

You love the words of a snake. I can only imagine you're vaccinated.

[@johndalton3180]

"I have to tell YOU a quote from Tolstoy?" I think is the best line here. So fucking quick on Cavett's part. Mailer had a well known passion for Tolstoy, and his writing was often compared.

[@paulfroelich1024]

I don't know shit about this stuff, but you sound like you're smart so I'll say that's a great point. Then proceed to watch Parks and Rec clips

[@RK-rf8rc]

That's what's so interesting about Cavett and old talk shows, there was far more intellegence going on than today. Can you imagine James Corden or Seth Meyers knowing these things

[@rexnemovi6061]

@@RK-rf8rc Well, the most interesting part is not that the host(s) and guests were able to carry a conversation like that but that the audience was able to follow to the extent that they found the shows entertaining. The difference between back then and today doesn't speak well for how the education system (d)evolved since.

[@elisabethrio8291]

Yes, Cavett was cool and witty, as were the others. Mailer was blustering and bullying--undignified.

[@elisabethrio8291]

@@RK-rf8rc Yes, We are all dumbed down now!

[@FourLoopMedia]

“I have to tell you a quote from Tolstoy?” I lol’d, bravo Dick

[@jona.scholt4362]

That was such a fabulous burn

[@JessicaZane4realz]

Norman Mailer took some criticism for being married 6 times and having numerous mistresses. In his favor, however, of all these women, he only stabbed one of them.

[@edvardskryten7765]

"We all know that I stabbed my wife," Mailer said casually and leisurely.

[@winonafrog]

Heroic, honestly, when you put it like that 😅

[@kinghani]

mailer: i have a complicated mind. you know it's so complicated that gore has said with some justice that my work is becoming unreadable. it's the one thing in his critique that i agree with. jimmy fallon: HAHAHA wow! you agree with that? complicated! complic-HAHAHA! oh my gosh that's so crazy. HAHAHA i love that. gore's, like, freaking out over that right now!!

[@frankscott1708]

freakish how I understand this comment. also tragic

[@lilmorsecody]

one word man I'm 19 and it's nuts to see this in comparison to the tv I grew up with. jealous!

[@julietantonio1049]

Oh God, this HURTS

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

Cavett is an ass who sucks up to what's popular. Mailer rules. Listen, all you libs, you deserve what's coming in our dystopian future. Except it ain't the future, suckers.

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

@v- r-m Hi v-r-m, Live a long life.

[@RubeeRoja]

I love when people spoke like this. Even the insults and arguments.

[@sacredgeometry]

Some of us still do.

[@theirishman9829]

I’m Irish and I just can’t help but hear Mailer putting on hints of an Irish accent even though he’s from New Jersey lol

[@TheSpiritOfTheTimes]

Irish? They're speaking the old Mid-Atlantic accent that's gone out of fashion.

[@gobnaitaine5103]

@@TheSpiritOfTheTimes He does sound Irish, coming from another Irish person. His accent is odd, considering where he's from.

[@gobnaitaine5103]

@@TheSpiritOfTheTimes He does sound Irish, coming from another Irish person. His accent is odd, considering where he's from.

[@blankcity1747]

Irishman here, too. I got definite hints of Irish in his accent.

[@kawasakiwhiptwo5821]

I noticed that too Irishman. It's sad really to know that, and to also know he's the same man who wrote The Executioners Song. From brilliance to complete insecurity.

[@jamesdrynan]

Thank goodness for KZbin and videotape! Moments like this are fascinating human drama. Cavett was savvy enough to step back and let the tension build.

[@youlondamason2316]

This show makes me want to hop in a time machine and go back.....Janet Flanner was classy and incredibly fun, Norman Mailer was fascinating and the most intelligent and interesting brat in history.....and then Gore Vidal who managed to be at once completely brilliant and hysterically funny....not to mention the always charming, gifted, and humble Dick Cavet. I hate that not one of these amazing souls have a current contemporary......sigh. 😍❤️

[@hyacinthlynch843]

Absolutely. They don't make em' like that anymore.

[@JF-NYC-NJ-Girl]

I ABSOLUTELY agree!

[@flanplan5903]

Uh…check out Graham Norton for amazing talk show hosts. Albeit he’s more of a UK one than a US one.

[@dan_hitchman007]

@@flanplan5903 Norton draws his guests out with humor. He's as talented and witty, in some respects, as his famous guests. He gets respect. Whereas a Fallon or a Kimmel are boobs who pretend to be talk show hosts.

[@anfg7376]

you over egged mailers pudding rather....

[@davidabair2280]

I had a chat with Dick back in 1980 in line at a bank on 75th and Lexington. He had a sailor hat on like Gilligan. I recognized his voice first. He was in front of me chatting with the person in front of him. Very nice man!

[@kcash6359]

I ran into him at a casino and recognized his voice first also. We tossed some jokes back and forth. Witty guy.

[@stephenwilliams9923]

We all have been in verbal wars, only to think of the perfect "come back" line hours later. On talk shows Maybe one great snappy line of retort might be heard. This one show contains a score of perfect zingers, each, of perfection, and worthy of great reflection these 52 years later.

[@billjones261]

Loved Dick and his show , the 60's and 70's was a time of social evaluation.

[@maryohmaryoh]

Janet Flanner is the low-key winner of the segment.

[@Bubbles99718]

And the cookies were her prize

[@mattbetzen4376]

I know she just one-punched Mailer at 12:40

[@AreMullets4AustraliansOnly]

She was very charming and witty i agree

[@blackwingvalleylover]

Love her so much! When she says "oh dear god let's not go back to that again" 😂

[@brt5273]

"We all know that I stabbed my wife a few years ago...and you were playing on that" ...well...that is a definite opening to be played upon! I know I would have taken it LOL!

[@maliant16]

Gore Vidal KO’d Mailer. Janet Flanner did well with her formidable dual tasks as both referee and manager. Dick Cavett was a great fight promoter and color commentator as usual. Thank you for this incredibly richly entertaining content. I hope it is preserved throughout human history for others to enjoy. Isn’t it amazing how future history “books” will be chalked full of videos of actual videos of the events and characters in question? As a millennial born in 1988 I have learned so much just from these old Dick Cavett clips and been thoroughly entertained in the process. Just this clip I have watched probably close to ten times including showing my boomer age parents to see if they were familiar with any of these characters and what their perspectives were during the time.

[@Ceerads]

I’m a Boomer who loved Dick Cavette’s show when I was young. I couldn’t stand Mailer and his misogyny.

[@scientifico]

Watching this in 2020 and which of the two has endured? who was more prescient? In my opinion, Gore was a far better observer and writer of age.

[@Eric-yc7po]

I've learned more vocabulary in these 24 minutes than in the entirety of my life's education.

[@serpentxblessed]

@Toxic Masculinity nailed the username there buddy.

[@rickrick5041]

@Toxic Masculinity Were they both?

[@PsyVen]

Gore Vidal's rant at 20:20 eerily foreshadowed Mailer's championing of murderer Jack Henry Abbott, whom he helped get released from prison. Abbott then murdered again.

[@pinetree1616]

Christopher Walken and Susan Sarandon showed up to offer support for Abbott, with Mailer, after Abbott had murdered the waiter Adan! Wonder why I've never seen any interviewers ask Sarandon and Walken about that?

[@PsyVen]

@@pinetree1616 Interesting -- I did not know that! /you learn something every day online.

[@kevinmathewson4272]

@@pinetree1616 Psychopathy was not well known or understood back then. Abbott's criticisms of the prison and foster systems probably moved them, and they probably believed his criminal behavior was an expression of deep trauma rather a pathological inability to feel empathy or remorse.

[@mrHoppedupford]

@@hamsandwichindahouse don't commit crimes and you'll never have to worry about prison.

[@ncooty]

@Scobey scobe: Are you saying no one has ever been falsely imprisoned?

[@jackjohnhameld6401]

Janet Flanner wrote the letter from Paris for The New Yorker: her articles were collected in a book. As for Norman and Gore, boys will be boys. Vidal was the cannier: 'I'm very fond of Norman.'

[@prince.mushroom]

This video has introduced me to Janet Flanner. What a treat. Just ordered a bunch of her books.

[@ebylib]

The audience members' response to Mailer was refreshing - specific rather than just boos or applause.

[@thegrandpencil4374]

The internet has caused the common man and woman to become far more same-y. People think in hordes now because of it, and less critically.

[@greenious508]

"I'm here and I'm becoming very very bored." Best line ever!

[@nickyjaws4643]

No one. Like, literally no one: Norman Mailer: "We all know I stabbed my wife."

[@kingy002]

Imagine the argument that proceed him doing that. He clearly could not let anything go.

[@analogpark8059]

But also 'it's beneath us to think in thick, frozen terms of intellectual pollution [like calling me a male chauvenist pig]' 😂

[@robhaskins]

two amazing minds wrestling with no holds barred, and with great eloquence.