Who is the Lord of Chaos? EVERY Wheel of Time Fan Theory!

[@TheDustyWheel]

Starts at 2:47! Who is the Lord of Chaos??

[@NorthwestLights206]

Let the lord of chaos rule = "Let Rand Cook" lol

[@ryadinstormblessed8308]

All of the above. The main takeaway we learn from the Last Battle and Rand's epiphany on Dragonmount is that the actual battle is for the soul of humanity through the struggle for Rand's soul. Rand is basically the microcosmic representative of the macrocosmic essence of humanity as a whole, and the 2 sides of his ultimate potential are as either The Dragon, avatar of The Light, or Lord of Chaos, avatar of the Dark. So also the more the members of humanity embody chaos themselves and spread that influence throughout the world, the more influence that also puts on Rand to choose Lord of Chaos as his personality. And that also gave the rest of the major and minor heroes and villains more of a place in the battle rather than it just being Rand having the only important role. Essentially we found that there never was really a single entity The Dark One, but rather that that was always a personification of the darkness within humanity which only took on individual entity characteristics because we assigned those characteristics to it. Ishamael / Moridin actually understood this to some degree, which was the kernel of the idea behind him starting to believe he was actually The Great Lord. He knew that the fight (as it had been taking place throughout the turnings of The Wheel) were essentially a matter of forcing The Avatar to choose which force to embody, and he wanted to supplant Rand and become that true Avatar himself. He believed he could because he was the only one who actually understood the true nature of the battle.

[@christianefiorito3204]

Great analysis. This makes the whole story about free will.

[@TheWheelTurns]

@The Dusty Wheel - Herid Fel leaves his note to Rand - explaining chaos and disorder weaken the seals, and order strengthen them - so as Rand causes disorder fighting the shadow it also allows the DO to more easily affect the pattern. Love these videos!

[@MarisuSedai]

I love a good ole fashioned theory video. Feels like I’m getting back to the roots of being a WoT fan! 💗

[@mwill8248]

Theory - extension of what we know. IF the Dark One exists outside of time and is essentially Bill Murray in Ground Hog Day stuck being used by the Creator to allow free will within our universe and is trying over and over again to break into our universe, then the Dark One NEEDS chaos to change up the results. He doesn't necessarily do the obvious thing or force the Forsaken to work together, because he may have already tried that. How I would show it in the show: I'd put the actual seals to the Dark One's prison in Telaranrhiod and depend on the belief of people that the Dark One has been sealed away. Makes the Dark One messing with the weather, bubbles of evil, etc... a tool to convince people that Tarmangeddon is coming and that he might get free. Explains the saying about the Dark One being sealed away "The Dark One and all the Forsaken are bound in Shayol Ghul, bound by the Creator at the moment of Creation, bound until the end of time," which everyone seems to know, but seems to be wrong on most points. This means that most of what Rand does by proclaiming himself the Dragon is playing into what the Dark One wants in convincing people that Tarmangeddon is coming and the Dark One doesn't actually want him killed. Both sides need the Last Battle.

[@ashamanassemble8899]

I honestly always thought it was Rand because he trained the Ashaman and they are let loose at full force in book 6, and dish out raw....ya know, chaos.

[@ashamanassemble8899]

and it always explained to me why the Forsaken kind of back off and give Rand so much space etc (let the Lord of Chaos rule).

[@TheWheelTurns]

definately Rand - is prensence directly or indirectly creates chaos even thousands of miles form him. Without that the seals do not degrade enough for the DO to fully break free, and it is why the shadow cannot simply kill him.

[@chrisdaniellegg]

The Dragon, easy

[@georgeharris6851]

RJ is the Lord of Chaos. Look how much chaos he created by leaving it nebulous.

[@ChairmanSteel]

Isn't it obviously Rand? I've always understood this book to be the baddies stepping back and letting Rand ruin everything on his own - pissing off the Aes Sedai, pissing off and accidentally terrorizing every country he's taken over so far, pissing off the Aiel (half of them are overtly opposed to him and even his personal guards and generals get fed up with his bullshit), starting a school for male channelers that's so obviously a risky move on its own and then putting a guy he can barely stand to be around in charge of it - it all brings to mind that quote, "Never interrupt your enemy while he's making a mistake." He's young, he's powerful, he's arrogant, he was raised in a backwater and has extremely limited political experience, and he's generally doing the shadow's work for it while trying to figure out how to be in charge. The only reason it was possible for him to be kidnapped was because he was so uncommunicative and unreliable, always traveling between cities without telling anyone and trying to dodge his bodyguards.

[@barold403]

To me, it was always obvious that it was Rand, sometimes people think too hard about a single thing in a novel. Like the old example about "the drapes were blue"

[@TheAmyrlinSeat]

I like the idea that "Darth rand" is the LoC. or more specifically that Darth rand is the LoC as opposed to Zen Rand

[@techbuster9652]

Once the series completed, I started to wonder if "the Lord of Chaos" was really meant to be the light itself. A second and third read reinforced this for me. My argument: The ultimate fight appeared to be between free will and fatalism. This was seen in Rand realizing that regardless of whomever actualized their vision, humanity would lose as such enforcement would eliminate free will. It is why the wheel exists at all. If you had but one choice, and the outcome of that choice was final, then you are nothing but a pawn of fate. However, if you can forever make a new choice, as the wheel turns again, then your free will is assured. That is why the dark one wants to break the wheel. However, do to the construct of the wheel, he can only do it if man chooses to do so. This is why he does not want to force people to turn to the dark. He needs everyone to choose to stop the wheel. This idea would make Rand the physical embodiment of the Lord of Chaos. All the talk from the forsaken is done mockingly, because none of them quite understand that although chaos appears to be the design of the dark one, it is actually the plan of the light. The ultimate example that Rand won and is the LOC, is that in the end, some of the Tinkers, who were stout pacifists, began to question the way of the leaf as they looked to help the wounded. They still had a choice.

[@techbuster9652]

They still had Chaos.

[@shauntempley9757]

The Lord of Chaos is the Dark One fully imprisoned. That is his role in reality. That is the main reason the Forsaken, such as Demandred, do not understand why the Dark One ordered them to say that specific line at certain times.

[@tobiasgrunbaum7575]

@@shauntempley9757 are you saying the dark one wanted to exist in his fully imprisoned form again?

[@shauntempley9757]

@@tobiasgrunbaum7575 Yes, he did. I am also saying that the Lord of Chaos is the Dark One's role while fully imprisoned. Him telling Demandred to state that quote, is the Dark One using his role to get him free.

[@tobiasgrunbaum7575]

@@shauntempley9757 I get the first part. For the second, do you mean that „let the lord of chaos rule“ is the dark one saying I want to lose against Rand so the Prison is sealed again so I can fullfil that role?

[@altanmandragoran4235]

I feel like it was incentive to become Nae’blis. Whoever brought the most chaos would be Naeblis? Or it’s Rand 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@AnotherBrownAjah]

I just started watching but what if the lord of chaos is what they call the dragon when he turns to the shadow

[@ryadinstormblessed8308]

Agreed. That's the basic idea I always had about it, that it's what The Dark One believes is The Dragon's true nature and that it will manifest itself if given enough "inspiration" so to speak. It seems like The Dark One has learned enough about The Dragon's nature from fighting him through thousands of turnings of The Wheel, that he's seen if you give The Dragon too much of a clear cut "we're evil and you're good" dichotomy, then The Dragon will usually rise to the occasion and own the Lawful Good side of his nature. But that if you instead keep your influence less obvious and just increase chaos from behind the scenes, it will harm The Dragon's belief in himself and in his influence on The Pattern, making him feel ineffective and even guilty over his failure to control *everything*, making him manifest his Chaotic Neutral tendencies out of frustration and need to do something effective. That it's essentially what we saw happening right up until the epiphany on Dragonmount.

[@AnotherBrownAjah]

@@ryadinstormblessed8308 Especially given the content of the book the idea first appears in......The Box and everything

[@fostegg1]

No dragon has ever turned though, I suppose they could name him that though

[@LordMichaelRahl]

@@ryadinstormblessed8308 At Tarmon Gaidon when Rand battles the DO, isn't it a plot point that he realizes that the DO cannot learn form his mistakes? He's outside of time and so alien to humanity that he keeps making the same errors. Or at least that's what I gathered. Like the theory though.

[@ryadinstormblessed8308]

@@fostegg1 I think that Rand deciding that no Dragon has ever turned is inaccurate on his part, but part of his deciding on who he is going to be and shoring up his faith in himself. RJ used so much unreliable narrative throughout the story that I feel like even at the Last Battle we still have to take some things with a grain of salt.

[@jonclarke3163]

It's matrim cauthon and always was

[@mychalharmon1]

I was too busy partying my 20’s away in the 90’s. I didn’t even have a pc till 2002.

[@jaysheth1541]

Books 4 and 6 are named after Dark One. This Odd and Even themes alternate between Good and Bad. Lord of Chaos is Dark One who is dominant throughout this Book but the Book ends with victory of Light in the sense that Dragon is declared Lord of even White Tower. White Tower bows to the Dragon Reborn in this Book. So, kind of Creator subverts Dark One's game with a single sure stroke. A masterstroke.

[@paulramen2535]

Just another theory : The nursery rhyme from the 4th age. The 4th age in which turning of the wheel? It doesn’t have to be in the future, it could also be from a very distant past. What if, in one turning of the Wheel, the Lord of the Morning had been almost turned to the Shadow, and instead have called himself The Lord of Chaos. The Shadow’s success of turning his adversary towards the Shadow is then remembered through the Ages by the Dark One and via Dark Prophecies. We get to hear about Dark Prophecies in the books for example when Moridin give the Dream Spike to Greandal and when Verin refers to them when reciting what she has read in the dungeons of Fal Darah after Padan Fains escape. It’s not unthinkable that The Chosen are well read with those prophecies and that such prophecies also could be one of many reasons that Mazrim Taim decides to join the Shadow - if we put aside that RJ initially wrote him as being a disguise for Demandred and see him for what he became in the books. The Lord of Chaos could in this case be more of a flirt with an old success story of the Dark, something to strive for again, rather then an actual title of a person or entity of this 3rd Age. That’s also - in my mind - a reason for the whole concept of The Lord of Chaos being something of an inside joke among the truly fallen ones. The thought of totally corrupting the side of the Light so that its followers are as bad towards one another as the Dark could ever be…. What a cruel joke. While reading, re reading and listening to these books I never thought, or got the impression that The Lord of Chaos was a genuine title for a person. Then again, English isn’t a first language here in Sweden, so I might have missed something even on reading them again. And also, since this is written in English I apologize if my reasoning seems messy and or for any grammatical or spelling errors.

[@Echidna23Gaming]

that makes a lot of sense

[@abj136]

Except for Rand’s insistence in the moment of Self Awareness that he never turned. If we believe Rand honest, and the Dark One sometimes lies, then this past era of chaos when the Dragon turned Nae’blis is merely a fairy tale told by the great lord of Darkness.

[@paulramen2535]

My theory says “almost turned” being made into a Lord of chaos if you will, but not quite a Lord of the dark. I’m not saying it’s flawless, just another way of possibly look at it. Thx for the insight though

[@shauntempley9757]

@@abj136 Except that a past fall in another cycle would set up this outcome. This Lord Of Chaos call from the Dark One is an attempt to get Rand to his side, but by staying away from him, and undercutting beneath Rand himself. This was an attempt, by the way, that almost succeeded.

[@kathryncainmadsen5850]

I don't think this talk about The Lord of Chaos is directly connected to Balefire except in the sense that it's a con. The Dark one has every intention of destroying everything and everyone including the Forsaken. MEANWHILE let's toy with all the puppets by raising up the low and putting them in charge and setting people against each other and enjoy their suffering. RAND's theory is that Chaos is needed to trap the Dark One. Breaking the seals as it were. He's setting out to Balefire Forsaken. He's using the True Power by then. Rand is the Zen master who embraces death and destruction and sees chaos as simply the counterpart to order. You can't have order without disorder. Yes, Rand plus Moridan as a metaphor. Fain plus Egwene. BALANCING ACT. yeah!

[@Damanticore]

The Rand + Moridin theory is interesting. What if he lit the pipe because he has control of chaos?

[@bigreaderpike]

I bought the game today on the 7th because I never learned about the game until years after it was gone physically some getting it now I can kind of reminds me graphically a little bit of early blood Omen and Soul Reaver legacy of Kain

[@mEmory______]

I think its clear from how the forsaken involved with the Black and white towers were involved with the ending of book 6, that Rand himself is not the "Lord Of Chaos". I think they are referring to it as a concept rather than a person. The Black ajah was involved with an attempt to kidnap Rand, initiated by plans of the forsaken Semirhage (I think?) only for her cooperator Demandred to intervene. This could either be a fight over control of Rand, and therefore a fight for power between forsaken, or an attempt to create division between the forces of the light, helping to to create a sense of paranoia for Rand, to push the Darth Rand agenda, and to prevent a monolith forming in the light. I think Moridin alludes to this as his intentions in Book 8 as he thinks about Rand while playing a board game. He is aiming to weave Rand for his own will.

[@mrslyney1121]

The dark one wanted to use Rand as the Nae blis until he became zen Rand . I think the lord of chaos is both Rand and the dark one .

[@maxsilva11]

Late to the party but... Wasn't the theory that Aghdashloo was going to be Cadsuane? So even if there's an agreement about it, she wouldn't be brought in until season 4 at the earliest, right?

[@ElectricPopsicle123]

My belief is Mazrim Taim

[@debbieheger3001]

Was it the man that Lanfear twisted his head off

[@leescience]

I wonder if there's some implications on lord of chaos verses Lord of chaos ? May be some people are talking about a general sense and some are looking at a specific person

[@TheBlake1980]

Where are you all based? I'm from central KY and ya'll all look familiar.

[@Yazhasa]

Lord of chans is some one that aint born too rule but rule

[@jamesphillips7885]

I thought it was ishamael/ moridin

[@aurorem.7307]

I thought the LoC was Taim XD.... Well, I guess not. Or I'm the only one to see this.

[@christianrapper]

The lord of chaos is the dark one

[@Yazhasa]

Chans is not evil and Oder is not Good

[@joeramulders]

Did you just try to put order to chaos? All theories are true! And false!

[@natenichols9569]

I always took the Lord of chaos to be the dark one. After demandred tells them "the rest" all the forsaken start acting differently. The dark one knew he was giving them instructions they wouldn't like and reminding them who they serve. Thus demandred says I wish it was not so... And shortly after disappears into shara when he probably wanted andor.