Courthouse Steps Decision Webinar: Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization

[@catsaresocute650]

I would like the proponents of that position to explain in detail why the argument that the state can arbitarte somomes body to the usage of (a persumed) other person, even for the sake of survival, is not slavery or the loosing of a fundermental liberty

[@catsaresocute650]

I would also want to know why the deepest history and tradtion seems to be occationaly found in a time before the USA existed, but then can't find that this tradtion is the one of the philosophy of liberty of the individual as per Locke. Or if that is so, can't recognice that the right to ones own person is central to the case for natural rights.

[@catsaresocute650]

I would also like to ask if the speakers ever considered what to do with a law that prohibits one from exercising personal autonomy over ones own self. Assuming human nature, of the one that leads to liberty, isn't is natural to disregard it? Isn't this obvious in the way restrictions of abortion do not lower the rates of abortion? Isn't it clear that it is no accident that now rights as the freedom to travel, even inter-state travel have to be reconsiderd to accmedate the position? Isn't it clear that by making or agreeing to a law against the nature of freedom, you will end in more and more restrictions to liberty?

[@jahnkejustin429]

I'm happy to take in your question. Our society recognizes that States have what is called a general police power, meaning they can enact any law so long as it is not arbitrary or prohibited by the state or federal constitution. The protection of fetal human life unquestionably falls within the police power, and the Supreme Court decided that there is no federal constitutional right to abortion. Abortion restrictions do not amount to slavery in the case of consensual sex for obvious reasons--pregnancy following sex is a natural and foreseeable consequence of the woman's volitional acts. It is a biological reality, not a governmental imposition. Similarly, if you cause an accident, you can't claim that being forced to pay damages is slavery. There is a colorable slavery argument with respect to pregnancy following rape, but that issue has not been brought to the Court. It is not clear, however, that the 13th Amendment was originally understood to address this situation. That would need to be fully argued. As far as other policy arguments you raised, those should be addressed to the legislatures. Federal courts have no constitutional authority to make policy decisions for the nation, past precedent like Griswold and Roe notwithstanding.

[@catsaresocute650]

​@@jahnkejustin429 The imposition of the state (or you) that it is in iteself even possible to agree to surrender the autonomy over your body is impossible. It is a foundational liberty and therefore can not be given over to the state. This is the enitre point of natural rights. If you think hat you can agree to loose natural rights, then any democracy would have the right to take any number of natural rights, becuase you agree by citiennship to the process of goverment. That makes deomcratic goverment in the sense of a republic impossible. If you could agree to loose your right to speak freely, for example you would have not lost one inch of your right to it, because this right is inherent to your person. That is becuase you are sentient, you can think, becuase you have (a body) a voice and hands you can speak and right. Threfore the act of expression and speach is inherent to your person, your right, becuase you posses your person. Natural rights can not be possed by anoyone but the person who is in the possetion of them. They refer to ownership of the self. That owenrship of the self is the foundational argument for freedom and the right to self-goverment.

[@catsaresocute650]

@@jahnkejustin429 You can not calim that paying damages is slavery, bceause it is a limited part of your property you are paying on gorunds of an issue of the socitey you are in having democraticly decided on laws. The distinction is (limited part of) poeperty and your person. If you had to pay for an accident with your personhood, you would indeed be in a state of slavery.