An Honest Conversation On The Problem With NFTs & Cryptocurrency, with

[@irinaphoenix2169]

"It's the 5% fighting the 1%." I thought that was the most illuminating quote of the NFT video, and by that point, you had proven it. It seems like that's the basic thesis if you can nail down just one.

[@laurenpinschannels]

yep, crypto will succeed when and only when it is actually the 95% who can benefit from it, and that won't happen when it's an investment vehicle at all, even a little bit. The only thing I've seen that seems vaguely promising in this direction is the grassroots economics folks - you cannot buy community inclusion currencies; It's entirely based on issuing debt personally. if you build trade up from the basic components they're probably will be a use for cryptography in order to provide an alternative to fiat currency but that will probably look like tools for creating a cryptocurrency as easily as you create a discord server, with some sort of modern monetary theory type thing backing it or something, or maybe you need to peg it to labor and it's labor tokens, ultimately protecting labor from abusive debts is the problem of our time and has been for several hundred years at least. not clear that cryptocurrency will be able to help with that but my hope is that eventually a cryptocurrency will come along that completely destroys any sense that it could be an investment vehicle. we'll see...

[@user-zu1ix3yq2w]

​@@laurenpinschannels I honestly don't understand this reasoning. "crypto will succeed when and only when it is actually the 95% who can benefit from it, and that won't happen when it's an investment vehicle at all, even a little bit." I think it's because people (you) conflate value with the US dollar. Even though the US dollar loses its value over time. Like, why do you think the 95% can't benefit from crypto? I will read your comment again but asking if you can expound here.

[@CeeJayBeeEll]

@@user-zu1ix3yq2w Of course dollars lose value over time; steady and predictable inflation is essential to the proper function of a true value-denominating currency. The intentionally sought-after hyperdeflation of the scamcoin world is just one reason crypto is not, and can *never* be, a real functional, usable currency. The reason it can't succeed when it's an 'investment vehicle' is that 95% of people aren't looking for 'investment vehicles' whatsoever. 95% of people are not unhealthily fixated on the endless accumulation of more money; they do not think of themselves as 'losing out' just because inflation exists, or 'missing out' just because their assets aren't all leveraged. 95% of people just want a reliable denominator of economic value that they can use to temporarily store their wealth until they need to turn it into shoes, bread, concert tickets, et cetera. 'Investment vehicles' cannot and should not function as everyday value tokens; currencies themselves are not 'stores of value', they are the units by which stores of value are assessed and compared. Crypto bros intentionally misunderstand and distort basic economics into incredibly stupid parodies just to try and keep their bigger-fool scams going, and it's very depressing how well it has worked to keep the bigger fools coming in. If crypto was really valuable, why has the goal always remained to pump it up and then cash out into real money? The simple fact that prices of all these scamcoins are always quoted in USD just proves that getting 'real money' out at the end has always been the goal of these crypto ventures. It has never been about building a better kind of money system that benefits everyone; that's just the conmen's sales pitch, and it always has been.

[@zackfiat607]

@@user-zu1ix3yq2w Crypto currency doesn't solve the problems brought by fiat and instead bringing more problems with it. For example the fact that it flactuate so fast, yes fiat lose it value with time but crypto values can lose by the next day

[@danny87573]

@@user-zu1ix3yq2w If you mine crypto you need a lot of processing power that the 5% use to become more like the 1%. Crypto is broken. A company can buy way more processing power than you and I. Its for the elites. They already ruined crypto. Anyone thinking it will change anything is just buying into a dream that is not real. And crypto culture is filled to the brim in scams. Not the same as the dollar backed by work. Crypto backed by how it solves problems like I said before is a interesting idea that has already been corrupted.

[@nopasaran191]

This dudes video was awesome. It turned me from NFT hater to apocalyptic NFT destroying god with lasers coming out of my eyes

[@thefinancialdiet]

Lol love this

[@starlight4649]

I didn't like crypto because it was wasteful and frivolous use of resources and computer hardware for betting on nothing I didn't like NFTs because they all seemed like a massive money laundering scheme And then I watched that 2+ hour video and good lord, we need to completely eradicate both crypto and NFT's wherever we can, because the whole topic is a dollar sign shaped bear trap covered in pepper spray and lemon juice.

[@asyncasync]

lol cringe

[@beneroni8345]

​@@asyncasyncbruh did you just reply to an at least year old comment?

[@asyncasync]

@@beneroni8345 yes. ... ugh, and? :D

[@MrMuel1205]

I love listening to Dan talk. He can tear something down, while still remaining deeply compassionate to those caught up in it. His Flat Earth video is another great example. It is interesting hearing him here in a more free-form medium.

[@bogatyr2473]

His transition from talking about Flat Earth to QAnon was sublime.

[@okayokayfineilldoit]

He has intense “your brilliant favourite college professor” energy

[@JKenny44]

I guess you weren't listening very closely

[@Turtlesism]

Nothing demonstrates this future dystopia better than the entire comment threads on this video, which are essentially bots talking to one another to pretend to be users. Utterly surreal seeing an entirely random conversation about buying Crypto and suddenly - one could even say, suspiciously - making a ton of money from seemingly thin air. It's like a version of the "I make X amount of money doing surveys at home for Amazon!" style bots from a while ago.

[@supernova622]

They are in the comments sections of every fucking TFD video 😩

[@Turtlesism]

@@supernova622 I've not seen a video from TFD before, so I can imagine them being rather common. It's just rather surreal. Can't these bots throw in a few pepe references or call someone out for "wanting to be poor" to at least sound like real cryptobros? Then again, most cryptobros start sounding almost identical to bots over time so....

[@bestdocincanada6620]

@@Turtlesism Yep its so annoying, like who the hell are they trying to fool? Videogame Npcs?

[@Turtlesism]

@@bestdocincanada6620 Have you seen any crypto mudcrabs lately?!

[@bestdocincanada6620]

@@Turtlesism What is tht suppose to be?

[@GrifterE]

Dan tongue tied spitting out “we have history books” is the most relatable moment.

[@meganroserebecca]

Riiiiiiight? I have gold standard friends and I've literally just taken to throwing at them copies of the history/economics book "Economix" - yes, it is a comic book. Answer to second potential follow-up question: No, my friends don't change their minds when confronted by facts & evidence - they're too brainwashed. But I don't feel bad supporting the author of the book by buying more copies!

[@EncinoRecords]

@@meganroserebecca can you please explain how the gold standard caused serfdom, but inflationary fiat currencies dont create serfs in overseas manufacturing, for example? it feels an aweful lot like permanent servant classes still exist, despite the fiat global economy, so im just entirely lost on how its a purely economic issue, and not, like, an issue about how labor is divided in a population outside of how it is directly compensated. explain how serfdom is not only possible, but in fact necessary, in a 'gold standard' world, and how its not only unlikely, but somehow structurally impossible, in a fiat world? use historic examples.

[@tinoesroho]

​@@EncinoRecords you're not my homeroom teacher, and Uncle Sticky's Discount Ham Wagon isn't your pupil, but gosh darn it here's a brief hot take: There is nothing stopping a fiat-based society from doing an imperialism or a capitalism to another society. Under substance-tied currency systems, the amount of currency available to print expands *slower* than fiat societies (sometimes to the point of deflation, like uh, in the case of cryptocurrencies) leading to economic depressions and less economic development and mass starvations because people aren't getting paid for their work because the people who have substance-tied currency systems don't want more money to be printed for fear of losing monetary power over the people who have less currency. One of the cool benefits of fiat currencies is that most of them are inflationary, meaning that a person in the future theoretically will have to expend less labor in order to obtain the same amount and quality of goods compared to a person in the past. Under fiat currencies, as long as organized labor bargains cost-of-living-wage-increases to offset the price increase of consumer goods, worker power grows while the inheritances of rich individuals decreases in value. Compare, for example, Alabama to the Netherlands: not only do most workers in Alabama get paid a measly $7.25 (or under $8.00) an hour, workers in Alabama where unions do not exist in meaningful numbers also have the injury of having to pay for their own health care. In the Netherlands, that same worker would make the equivalent of $22/hr flipping burgers and would have no health care bill to consider at all. Currency by itself is meaningless; currency can only be considered in context of economic systems and whether or not one believes that wealthy individuals or groups should exist. One cool advantage of fiat currency that substance-based currencies do not have, is the fluidity. A person can easily move from point A to point B and obtain a loan under a fiat system to obtain tools and housing, whereas substance-based currency loans are much harder to obtain and historically more exploitative.[1] For a historical example of currency debates, see the chapter on the stupidity of the "Free Silver" movement --- [1] Until capitalists realized they could loan shark in the form of charge cards.

[@EncinoRecords]

@@tinoesroho so i nother words, the 'we have history books' argument was a non sequiter serfdom didnt end with fiat, and fiat wouldnt have prevented it the video on his channel is well done, and well argued. his interview here is filled with a lot of poor arguments that might work well in addition to his main channel video, but dont, in and of themselves, make good arguments in a vacuum

[@EncinoRecords]

@@tinoesroho also, ive never heard someone refer to inflation destroying the purchasing power of currency as a positive before. silly me, im here working way less hard per dollar than my grandfather did, i should be happy about that right? given your comment that its somehow a net benefit? youre def saying things no one else ever told me, ill tell you that much

[@ImperialGoldfish]

5.3M views in 3 weeks... Dan's made a lot of the best videos on KZbin in his career, but I'm glad it was THIS one that blew up like crazy. Huge respect.

[@Rubberman202]

To hear Dan describing people who are pro-crypto actually (begrudgingly) agreeing with him, that's actually incredible.

[@alejandrovallejo6763]

Nobody wants to admit they are Jack and wasted their money in magic beans.

[@arthurpiccio7906]

@@alejandrovallejo6763 Jack actually lucked out, though. Unlike 99.99999999% of cryptobros.

[@Dong_Harvey]

@@arthurpiccio7906 he did kinda have to kill a giant to get a return on his investment, but yeah he was 'lucky'

[@Caddrel]

Yeah, the articles and videos that try to refute Line Goes Up generally concede that Dan is correct on all of his points, but he should just be more positive!

[@wearmeout1]

@@Caddrel thats hilarious

[@salvadorp9141]

I’ve been a fan of Dan for 10 years - the ten most formative years of my life. I’m so happy he’s getting some real attention. It’s absolutely hilarious trying to see him brief

[@theideaofevil]

I love going back and see how much more traction his nft vid has gotten since I watched it 👍

[@Barthedanz]

He seems like more of a boxers kind of guy but I would be ok with seeing him in his briefs. Is that like a subscription or do I buy it from somewhere? How do I do this?

[@sunnijo]

He’s come a long way from the cardboard puppet days. He’s always had great content, but the NFT video and his flat earth takedown that came out a while back are some of the best things on KZbin

[@finnpendleton4615]

I first read this as "I've been afraid of dan for 10 years"

[@IdToaster]

Dan's view counts are the line going up that we really need.

[@DalePatch]

"Even if you believe in crypto, there's an observable bubble." -Dan Olson Great line from this interview.

[@lifotheparty6195]

This right here. I’m a CPA with my education in accounting (obviously) and economics. It’s absolutely in a major phase of mania and fraud despite it being an early stage viable currency. I’m reminded of the early days here in the US when there wasn’t a unified currency but multiple different currencies with some originating from the colonial nations, one created by Congress (the continental dollar) and the various corporate currencies created by the individual business ventures in the colonies.

[@voidify3]

Sus sus sus amogus (If you get the dumb meme reference you get it, if you don’t, don’t worry about it)

[@nickk4010]

So what about the housing market? stocks? USD money printing?

[@DalePatch]

Much of the stock & real estate market is over valued right now as well. I would invest into is commecerical real estate since covid has added so much inventory to the market on that side it is actually cheaper than ever unlike housing. Then I would invest in precious metals (avoiding gold) and private stocks since they are less affected by market fluctuation. Investing into public stocks is fine but don't do it just based on graphs and growth. Only buy if you believe in the evaluation of the underlying company and it's ablity to perform over 5 to 10 years. If everything crashes, the only value things will hold is the value outside the dollar amount so understand what you are buying rather than it's current worth on the market. I actually hold crypto, but if it crashes I just plan to use it within the ecosystems rather than just cashing out for money. So my crypto has some value to me even if assigned $0 worth on marketplaces.

[@Igor_054]

@@nickk4010 What about them? All of them are susceptible to bubbles, but none are in such a large bubble as crypto right now.

[@KRfromthePaleozoic]

Dan: *immediately regrets reflexively saying "welcome" back at Chelsea, on her channel*

[@zexionthefirst6767]

Gosh, I read this before I'd gotten to that part of the video and I felt his regret in my chest immediately.

[@grantus_pax]

waiter: enjoy your meal dan olson: thanks, you too dan olson: *regret*

[@willnash7907]

Surely he just means, "Welcome to the call."

[@samsprague3158]

He was doing a call and response thing

[@seekittycat]

I'm terrible with impulse and money, it's psychological and something I'm working on with my therapist. But I'm happy to say I've never bought NFTs, these videos help so much.

[@schlatta-dirtydeeds9351]

So happy for you, stay strong!

[@justyouraveragememester5037]

hold fast king/queen, you got this!

[@Bluecho4]

You definitely dodged a bullet there.

[@mollistuff]

Hold on to your money, diamond hands!! You got this

[@k.morningstar7983]

that's exactly what these people who run NFTs and crypto want, people who have impulse control problems, the kind who've turned video games into gambling

[@Dana-hc3lg]

I can't describe the sensation I felt when Dan said "have you heard of adoptables". As someone in the furry fandom, I have been (albeit, mostly jokingly) making this comparison for SO long, and have never seen it brought up in the NFT discussion outside of that. People will bring up NFTs and I'm just like?? They're furry adoptables but 10,000x worse. Nft bros will even talk about their animal characters like I hear people talk about furry adoptables, like, ooh, "I love the design, the color, and it has a leather jacket, I think that looks cool! I knew I just had to buy it immediately, it's my new form of identity, I'm gonna put it on my hoodie," etc. Except of course you can get some quality premade furry design/artwork for like. $50 and not $50k, lmao. Not to mention the artist gets all that money! Anyways. I appreciated him bringing that up if not just for the way my head turned 180⁰ like an owl when he said the word 'adoptables'. Not to mention the whiplash of him using all these pentasyllabic words throughout regarding the financial and cultural state of society just to then utter the phrase "blue jaguar character". I swear I started levitating in an orbit like that potato someone taped to their ceiling fan

[@romanlaurent]

What? Lol. The furry NFT's you made up is something I would call a scam in 4K. Some generative NFT's are scams and don't come from originality. I'll give you that. But NFT's are assets that can't be exchanged. People who identify with NFT usually cater to what it stands for and the utility behind it (PFP supporters/advocates). The people behind the NFT make money. That is 1,000% correct. But it also depends on the project and the branding. If your goal is to rug pull and scam people, then do so. And if a project resembles that, than it is what it is - a scam. But not every NFT is like this. Research is highly important. Without the context of anything, there is always misunderstandings and assumptions. Art work value works exactly like paintings. If there is value that means someone is willing to pay for it. That is how value works. FOMO and speculation play little parts to it, but that's how value works. You create a piece that has tons of diversity, character, and structure = you put your price on it. If the market responds good to it, that's what one pays.

[@LAK_770]

Lol this description. The owl head-turn, the "whiplash", and the floating potato, you have a gift for humorous imagery

[@Weenpuncher]

HAHAHAHA amazing

[@ekki1993]

Dan frequently weaponises his use of very specific wording. And it's always fun when he comes up with something taken from obscure or niche subcultures.

[@bibsp3556]

A potato flew around my room...

[@masterstacker2833]

38:50 "People become resistant to predation when they feel safe." Had to shed a single tear for we are going hard in the opposite direction.

[@laurenevans8483]

Don’t feel safe in the current system- I feel I have a chance to have ground to run on in the digital system

[@masterstacker2833]

@@laurenevans8483 The odds are even MORE against you investing in massive centralized blockchains of nothing.

[@fenzelian]

Not a coincidence that the politician in this generation most invested in making everybody feel scared and angry all the time was a career real estate hustler.

[@claymorejohnston]

@@laurenevans8483 You have an objectively better chance playing blackjack.

[@wizard7314]

@@claymorejohnston that's just false. Lots of people made money on crypto. Nobody makes money on blackjack after a few games. Stock markets you can win. Even in a bubble. Gambling you cannot win.

[@Jaspertine]

What I truly appreciate about Olson's video was the specificity of his breakdown of the technical side of things. Most people in my circle of family and friends didn't really understand NFTs, and having such a comprehensive resource breaking them down was a big help.

[@suicune2001]

I was soooo confused about what those were. Now I have a very good summary I can use to have a real-world discussion: Crypto currency is just the stock market but provides ZERO goods or services. Buying anything with crypto is like trying to buy something using stock shares. Shares which fluctuate hour to hour so good luck knowing what anything costs at any given time. Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be to be paid wages in stock shares? That's the future these crypto drones are trying to sell you on. NFT's are just MLM scams with even less benefit since you have nothing physical to show for your loss. As he put it, "At least with MLM scams, you have a garage filled with skin lotion." lol

[@markmonfort29]

@suicune2001 but with apps like Strike and using the bitcoin lightning network there's no need to worry about bitcoin price. Pay in fiat and receive fiat. Using bitcoin as a payment rails network. Thats one way this could be done. Dan has good points but at the same time the innovation is moving forward. We just need to get rid of some the mess that comes with it

[@suicune2001]

@@markmonfort29 Someone posted it takes 10 minutes to perform one bitcoin transaction and can apparently come with HUGE transaction fees. Imagine going to taco bell and buying $10 worth of food and being charged $500 in the transaction fee because some celebrity hype thing happened on the way. And then sitting there for 10 minutes while you wait for the payment to go through. Not to mention the horrible electricity cost. People also mentioned crypto is the reason it's so hard to get computer hardware nowadays. And you'd still have sales tax on top of it. I don't see how using monopoly money solves anything. It just seems like a worse system all around. I also don't like that only criminals used it for a long time so it's already mired in less than desirable people who are willing to exploit the system and you.

[@Jaspertine]

@@markmonfort29 That's kind of the problem though, is that the mess that comes with it is very profitable for the people who already have the money and power. They have a financial incentive to maintain that instability because it favours people who have enough money to eat the loss on a volatile investment, and *that's the grift.* Converting money from one currency to another is nothing special. But cryptocurrency doesn't go "to the moon" unless its value is permitted to fluctuate wildly in short periods of time. And convincing people to convert their money from a stable currency to an unstable one creates a system where wealth and power pool in the hands of a shrinking number of winners while shutting everyone else out. It's basic class antagonism, and software solutions can't correct for that.

[@user-zu1ix3yq2w]

Did he teach you how to read code and how to mint your own NFTs?

[@Spacecorgi]

Chelsea’s little “no” when Dan mentioned Elijah Wood, I legit felt that.

[@SinHurr]

Brie Larson, Reese Witherspoon. I can mute them. But Dolly Parton? Somebody had to have lied to her. She's too good and pure to do this on her own.

[@chesterstevens8870]

Look at the various celebrity mouthpieces, look at what agencies represent them, and then look at the wallets tied to those groups. You'll start to see connections; most of these dancing monkeys wouldn't know a Bitcoin from a rare pepe, their agents are just using them as bullhorns to pump the value of their own investments.

[@swiftlymurmurs]

@@SinHurr God no not Dolly

[@ltbq]

Dolly Parton owns the largest and most popular resort in her state and pays her employees less than a living wage, I have no idea why everyone thinks she's this "good rich person", she's the same as all the othets

[@FerventMelody]

@@ltbq to my understanding they also pay for 100% tuition fees for any employee who wants to study after secondary school. I don't know if it makes up for low wages, but it definitely is above and beyond many employers

[@1renegadegeek]

I'm an older viewer of yours (I'm 46!) and I want to thank you for taking on these issues. I am really worried about friends my age destroying their retirement plans by investing in some of these shady cryptos. You do a much better job of explaining why to use caution than I ever could.

[@pisceanbeauty2503]

Wow, that’s scary.

[@skevbeats]

If you buy Bitcoin or Etherium u won’t lose in the long run

[@1renegadegeek]

@@skevbeats Yeaaaaah... I'm thinking it makes more sense to trust the actual financial experts in this video over an online music producer with 600 followers. LOL.

[@TheTk45]

@@1renegadegeek good choice lol

[@TheInfectous]

@@1renegadegeek pov: old person in 2007, "yahhhh im thinking ill trust the financial experts on wall street" whatever, anything to avoid learning yourself i guess.

[@DinoCism]

Wow, I remember watching Dan's video and thinking "damn this is a really comprehensive breakdown of everything terrible about NFTs, this is the kind of thing I wish would go viral." Glad to hear it actually did and good interview.

[@lilithhedwig5408]

Same! I watched it early on because I'm a regular viewer of his and this really pleases me.

[@Ychos027]

@@lilithhedwig5408 honestly, I've re-watched that video a couple of times because first of all, it's incredibly informative but also....it's absolutely mesmerizing :D

[@hypno5690]

hes very intelligent but has a clear bias as well that nobody brings up

[@grahamrich9956]

@@hypno5690 Not saying you are wrong, but in what way is he biased?

[@aQabl8]

@@grahamrich9956 ​ His political views are clearly very much on the left and he seems to be pretty anti-capitalist. It's clear as a day @30:42 where the interviewer basically calls crypto right wing/an-cap and he agrees. Watch his other videos and you'll see that almost all of them are intertwined with his political pov. Hardly some neutral journalism. Some of his claims are straight up conspiracy level bullshit like "crypto is experiment in financial reorganization that serves the needs of very scary people who have enough power already."- that literally sounds like something a Trump voter would say after the last 'rigged' elections. (...and would be ridiculed for by someone like this dude) I'll give him that he's very good at presenting his skewed views as facts that are indisputable.

[@TheMelMan]

I ALWAYS thought of Crypto as an MLM scheme from the beginning and people told me I just don't get it. I feel quite vindicated hearing someone more savvy than me in financial matters saying the same thing.

[@thefinancialdiet]

Glad it's not just us.

[@TheMelMan]

@@thefinancialdiet Nope. You're not alone. It has all the flags.

[@k.morningstar7983]

things that are actually GOOD has a different feel from these get rich quick schemes

[@economicprisoner]

IMO, when Bitcoin started, it was more than a MLM scheme. However the banks, unable to attack it directly, managed to capture developement by funding the "Core Developers". The Core developers now actively prevent BTC from scaling to meet expected transaction demand. So with high fees and unreliable transactions: there is no longer a compelling reason to use it over the traditional banking system. All BTC has left is "number goes up"; which is very Ponzi-adjacent, if not actually technically a Ponzi in implementation.

[@TheMelMan]

@@economicprisoner So it started with good intentions but the market decided its fate?

[@arcmage7000]

Great to see Dan's video really embedding itself into the public consciousness, it's such a breath of fresh air to know that there's a concrete and comprehensive no-BS analysis of all this stuff out there, and that millions of people have watched it

[@vecvecvec]

thank you based arclight phoenix

[@rappinron1384]

Yet is was all BS.

[@____uncompetative]

@@rappinron1384 The first 15m was. I stopped watching after that.

[@motunrayomomodu8528]

15:28 11m as at now

[@learningtogrowinChrist]

Crypto "investor" here came as a follow up to his original video. Very thought provoking. I personally try to avoid MLMs like the plague and it's interesting to think I've possibly fell for the biggest one of all. Thanks for talking about these things in a thoughtful way that helps us process IF we should be in the crypto space... I'm thinking no, not 100% on that still.

[@stelkin]

This is an extremely interesting perspective, considering most crypto investors don't seem to be taking these points with any critical perspective, instead desperately justifying their investment decisions through cognitive dissonance. I get that you can't speak for others, but what do you think allows you to soberly see the reality of this issue when presented with evidence versus others who double- down?

[@Pancakegr8]

@@stelkin I know that question wasn't for me, but when I was in Amway I doubled down because 1. I was desperate for financial freedom and didn't wanna quit too early, and 2. I wanted to be right and prove everyone who doubted me wrong.

[@learningtogrowinChrist]

@@stelkin Thanks for your thoughtful question! Short answer: there were good arguments submitted, some I've been wondering about on my own. Long answer: I think there's a few things that have influenced me (not exhaustive but longer than I thought it would be): 1) The Bible, I for the past 18 years have learned to take what people say and compare it with the authority they appeal to. Whatever book or professor or politician they follow to determine if it's a legitimate source (sometimes not as easy as I hoped). For example: Many people that say they're Christians don't even know what the book teaches. This principal bears out in many aspects of life. Also to seek to understand what the standard of truth is and how we (humanity) make it grey is important to me too. 2) I've been on a search for about 10 years to find solid investments, that are truly investments. The frothyness of the stock market concerned me. It really started when I stepped outside the box of traditional thinking with investing. If I'm truly trying to be diversified, I can't just be in the stock market. Yes I can have 100 stocks but if the market corrects 50% guaranteed a lot of those stocks will lose value, no guarantee market is going back up. Over time I started noticing a lot of buy the dip types of discussions, not entirely sure it's the best idea. Still not entirely sold on that idea, I see the rationale. 3) I've been learning about crypto, reading white papers and "investing" since 2017. This means I have been scammed by 2 ICOs (initial coin offerings), lost all of my investment in a project that had good intentions but unfortunately was a scam 1776 coin, and listened to a lot of KZbinrs objectionably during the rise and fall in 2017. I remember most KZbinrs would talk about a new project something like this: "hey guys check out xyz coin! It's up 250% in a few days. Why should we check it out? It's been hot and I bought it, you should too!" There was no discussion about the merits of the project, no discussion about a real use case, nothing about tokenomics showing there was no real research accomplished on these coins. As far as the crypto sphere now I still don't see that many reliable names. There are more than back then but possibly 1000x scammers to drown out the solid information.

[@learningtogrowinChrist]

@@Pancakegr8 Thanks for sharing!! I actually had a close brother in Amyway and watch the scam from the outside, I think this really opened my eyes to that world. I noticed all these mom's taken with MLMs. Recently heard someone say crypto is like MLMs for men! I thought that was very interesting and possibly telling!!

[@eslaweedguygrey]

@@Pancakegr8 Huge respect for being able to admit a mistake, especially with money. Weaker people bury that shit. That's badass dude.

[@RedMeansRecording]

This is a great interview and definitely feels like a perfect counterpart to the original video. Thanks to you both.

[@minhuang8848]

Man, I just wish he pointed out his many shortcomings in the video, between throwing Vitalik and Musk in the same cauldron (that's a huge ouchie, especially since Vitalik's blogposts tend to do an enormous job at explaining both technical details and the utility of any given protocol) and missing some vital technical aspects and legitimate reasons for crypto to exist - like any computing infrastructure - then saying that the good stuff is so minuscule, he thinks it's not worth offering opposing views and their rebuttals as it is useless nuance... it leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, considering how much I normally like and praise FoldingIdeas, well, ideas. RMR would be a great platform for exploring the legitimate aspects of NFTs (procedural art explicitly not deserving this label), but let's face it, this is an automatic way to shoo away anyone's general audience and few people dare making the case for crypto and data structures emerging from it, it's just not worth the massive outcry over something people rely on bad reddit-tech threads to summarize in two sentences. I'm just sad that a more-than-two-hour video ended up being so flat and not talking about anything people didn't already gather by virtue of how humans work. I don't need crypto to get a sense for folks being incapable of managing their money and speculating on complete nonsense, we've got endless proof for that already. I want to see someone go beyond their comfort zone and tackle the difficult arguments to make, like trying to find the good in technology that is being taught at every single university in the world and is seeing as much research as the next obscure mathematical field - and then some. I want a nuanced take, not one reinforcing notions everyone already had without being able to explain the first thing about the subject.

[@paulpujeter6340]

@@minhuang8848 you want a channel about making beats on an OP-1 to give a nuanced take on ..... NFT's? what?

[@henrythegreatamerican8136]

That striped shirt she was wearing.... I kept thinking female Freddy Krueger.

[@mechlo]

@@minhuang8848 It feels like you watched the first 15 minutes of Dan’s video and stopped. He talks about the merits and how they are a non-starter. He even mentions it at the beginning of this video. They are a failed social and financial experiment that acts as a tool to consolidate power and wealth to the earliest of adopters and no one else. NFTs are an uncritical extension of that. Like he quoted, this is a put up or shut up moment for crypto because its legacy is going to be that of a massive deflationary market that is sealed away from everyday investors.

[@TAXie-ck7ed]

@@paulpujeter6340 Min Huang is probably a bot.

[@oshkoshjosh2224]

The insane thing is how good the scammers are. I'm pretty technologically savvy, and so friends often come up and ask me about what things are good buys and what aren't. Researching some of these "projects' for them turns into like, 20-30 minute ordeals, and that's with me KNOWING what to look for. God help those that don't. PROTIP for anyone that's still considering crypto as an investment vehicle? No legitimate project ever got off the ground by you not being able to sell the token or coin. If the founder won't let you sell? It's a scam. 120000000% its a scam. that's it.

[@verager2493]

Thing is... it's volatile. The gap between getting scammed by a predator and choosing something that just happens to fail because the guy selling is also a victim is so thin as to be irrelevant to an investor. It's a deliberately induced cultic malaise because that's how you get rich in crypto

[@k.morningstar7983]

@Brian Mitchell lol like any legitimate and honest way to make money needs to be heavily researched bad, back to your get rich quick scheme hole

[@k.morningstar7983]

@Brian Mitchell can't expect a dudebro to know how to read, my bad i'll try caveman grunting next time *makes economic theory grunts and hand gestures before leaving in my foot powered car* now will you please get back to your get rich scheme hole?

[@rappinron1384]

@Brian Mitchell Facts

[@newjumpcityjosh9333]

@@k.morningstar7983 I fully understood you just saying.

[@quietwulf]

I think we’re living in a world that is moving so fast, it’s leaving people behind. People are crying out for someone to take the time to explain these extremely complex subjects in a way they can digest. People are being scammed out of their hard earned savings in ways they can barely wrap their heads around. I’m so grateful to Dan for shining a light on these technologies.

[@Gloomdrake]

@@gtacrypto9805 list three thing he's wrong about

[@lycanwarrior2137]

@@Gloomdrake Considering some of the other videos he's made (gamergate) he seems like he's just a far-leftist.

[@Gloomdrake]

@@lycanwarrior2137 he is a leftist, but that has nothing to do with his crypto takes. Lot of leftists are crypto nuts, and they're just as wrong as right wing crypto nuts

[@lycanwarrior2137]

@@Gloomdrake Really? Interesting, would've never guessed that a lot of leftists are into crypto as well.

[@weatheranddarkness]

@@lycanwarrior2137 the right wing may have at some point suggested to you that left wing thought is not in fact what it actually is; it's fundamentally a drive towards a kind of personal freedom that doesn't grant the power to 'capital' and instead puts it in the hands of the everyday people. It makes sense that untying personal finances from the banking system makes sense to some leftists.

[@deveus1]

I know that inviting someone to watch a 2.3 hr video about NFTs sounds about as appealing as somebody asking if you would like to taste the inside of their septic tank, Dan's video is actually really insightful and well done. It's worth watching.

[@rappinron1384]

It's a video full of progressive dribble.

[@ng.tr.s.p.1254]

@@rappinron1384 Speak for yourself, bot.

[@rappinron1384]

@@ng.tr.s.p.1254 I did bot

[@SpookySkellyGurl]

I'm glad to see people addressing the fundamental issues with NFTs instead of just taking potshots at the quality of the art, which isn't even applicable to every example.

[@wizard7314]

No, the quality of art point is poignant. It's a very quick heuristic which tells you that people are not paying for the art itself. What are they paying for?

[@mindgamewords]

They are paying for utility that it can bring. It's another way for the artist or company to engage with the customer.

[@SpookySkellyGurl]

@@mindgamewords lol, no.

[@SpookySkellyGurl]

@@wizard7314 the point is, people conflate NFTs with "ugly" art, which for one isn't all they're used for, but also, for various reasons elaborated on in this video, they would still be bad even if the art were good.

[@mindgamewords]

@@SpookySkellyGurl no what?

[@marcush4741]

10 years from now after the bubble has burst, I hope analysts dont wash over the fact that folks like this SAW IT COMING and portrayed how and why it was inevitable with compelling, detailed content.

[@klarkolofsson]

You know which card they will play.

[@kayvee256]

@@klarkolofsson How Millenials Destroyed Finance By Buying NFTs And Avocado On Toast Instead Of Houses

[@darrelsteinberg4127]

It won't be 10 years, it'll be either this year or the next 2 max. But analysts absolutely will - they do it on purpose to help Big Money maintain economic control (through narrative control).

[@Amanda-C.]

They did it with the '08 crash. It's inevitable that they'll try.

[@moneyovereverything9773]

@@darrelsteinberg4127 2 years from now you’ll still be at your 9-5 but hundreds of thousands of people will have retired off crypto

[@Pheonee]

this is so niche, and minor in comparison to all the other thoughtful points he's made in Line Goes Up as well as in this interview, but the very brief explanation that Dan gave of the adoptable community really illustrates why I respect his content so much. as someone who's been in adopt and furry communities for years, I know how insular and objectively silly (though very sincere!) it can be, and to hear someone from outside the community describe it so correctly and with zero mocking is really surprising. he did the same thing with smutty fanfiction: interface with very mockable subcultures in sincerity and good faith, and with respect that's usually not afforded to us. it's rare for someone who discusses serious, heavy-hitting topics to also take pains to acknowledge the humanity of 16 year old sparkledog peddlers on deviantart, but it's very appreciated and in my opinion speaks to his research and empathy skills.

[@TinyFlyThing]

Hahey, fellow sparkledog peddler :D

[@EspyMelly]

That's usually the sign of someone who makes proper research instead of just going by hearsay or biased articles.

[@ThisIsWEB]

Aww, your show of appreciation here is just as endearing as how you feel about Dan's treatment of your interests. Spread the positivity. :)

[@tsu08761e]

adoptables are a parasite to many communities and im glad the younger generation is realizing it. not everything needs to be monetized, as an artist myself it is not a good way to be supported

[@duffman18]

@@tsu08761e whaat is the adoptable community and why do you feel this way about it? I googled it, and it seems to be authors commissioning artists to draw characters for their books and stories, because they can't draw well enough themselves. What's wrong with that? Artists should get paid for their work. In money, not crypto, of course. I don't see a problem with commissioning artists to make art for people. Like if you want a song for your video, you commission a musician to write and record one for you. Dan (Folding Ideas) did this for his Line Goes Up video, he commissioned some drummers to make a drums-only song for the video, and the song features throughout in each of the "chapter" screens. He paid them in money, not in crypto, obviously.

[@patnewbie2177]

TFD and FI: *discussing complex financial and political topics* Me: *scanning FI's game shelf to see what I can recognize*

[@R4tm1B29]

Since the pandemic start, I pivot to Computer Science and start being exposed to Blockchain Technology and all that comes with it; Crypto, Defi, DApps, Web3, Metaverse and of course NFT. Dan's 2+ hour video resonates so much better than the 2 years I spend learning about it.

[@MrThewooter]

Whenever I see live or unedited/scriped content with Dan, his videos amaze me even more. He's just a regular guy with anxiety and social issues who really cares about the things he talks about. Its inspiring.

[@lucca_who]

I've never percieved him as anxious in any way nor giving signs of "social issues"

[@jbon123]

I'm sure he does care, no doubt. It is a shame how little he actually understands on the subject of crypto. His unequivical statements on the subject do not hold water. They are tired fake news style sound bites, apropos of nothing. Dan has a 2 hr video that says nothing new, offers little acknowledgement of the distopian financial grift that dominates our world. Buzz off Dan.

[@hypno5690]

@@lucca_who its comforting for people to project their pet disabilities onto people these days

[@xaza8uhitra4]

huh???? who says he has social issues wtf

[@river_brook]

@@jbon123 tl;dr "he's wrong, I have rebuttals, and I will not offer them up"

[@Momo-oz4ek]

most critiques of NFT's and crypto are about environmental damages (which is valid), but here is the problem that is just as big and it's finally being talked about!

[@LikaLaruku]

Almost no one ever brings up how the people minting NFTs & mining cryptocurrency are responsible for GPU prices being astronomically high, like double what a PC, monitor, keyboard, & mouse cost, & yet video game publishers want to cram NFTs into games they won't be able to play in the future because they won't be able to afford to update their rigs.

[@Momo-oz4ek]

@@LikaLaruku oh that's a good point! Besides you can't even get a deal buying second hand GPUs because they degrade over time, especially if they've been used to mint crypto

[@johnnypopstar]

@@Momo-oz4ek GPUs don't degrade over time. They might get a bit clogged with dust and need cleaning out, or worst case run *slightly* hotter than a "fresh" one and benefit mildly from their thermal interface material being redone after a few years, but unless they've been overvolted (which I can't imagine crypto miners are stupid enough to do, because it'd be a huge false economy) then there's no real way for them to get worn out. Overvolting would be increasing the voltage supplier to the GPU. You'd do this as part of overclocking it - making it run faster than intended, to squeeze out a bit more performance. However, these things come pretty fine tuned out the shop, and the extra couple percentage points you can get from this, with the extra electricity costs (and heat produced) needed to get these scant improvements, it doesn't really add up. Some punk mining on their home rig in their spare time might do it, but I can't imagine the majority of GPUs sitting in "professional" (and hideously wasteful, of course, because all of this is a waste - nonetheless, they approach it like a business) mining operations are. If you overvolt a chip significantly enough for a long enough time, then the higher-charged electrons start to have enough energy to occasionally burrow through the walls between the circuits. Keep doing it, and these burrowings become more frequent, until eventually they're happening enough that the chip can't function. Even reducing the voltage can't help at this point, as their burrowing also degrades the walls between the circuits themselves. So *that* can be a problem, but it's a 1/0 sort of problem. Chip is either knackered and doesn't work at all, or still does.

[@felicityc]

​@@johnnypopstar That is true but it does not help supply if the second hand market does not exist :) this post is generally a response to 'no one sees the secondhand markets' though I did want to mention undervolting is in fact the best practice in mining. Since your raw profit is multiplied by value of the underlying asset rising disproportionately, saving energy cost is multiplicative, almost. If you make $3 in btc vs. $2.80, but take longer to do so, it doesn't matter since before long it became $12 and $11.2. Multiply that by 100 or 1000 discrete miners and the difference becomes meaningful. Especially if you think it will keep going up. And if you think it's hit a local peak- you sell. And keep mining. Zero downside, the only risk is whether the bubble pops permanently. Atwhich point your loss = ... nothing still, if you sold. If you didn't, you lose all investment and time. But so far, historically, even if one looks at the crashes, this is not the case. It goes back up. And now, after two cycles and more confidence, prices do not drop even in the troughs. The investment is still sound. This is a purely economical situation so it is understandable that people are quick to blame the scalpers or whatever when it is a result of dividends as a whole. I never sold a gpu to a scalper... they were all miners. You do not really make profit buying overpriced gpus unless you are mining. But every purchase at MSRP is guaranteed instant profit and a near instant turnaround rate. Every gpu I sold had the transaction finish in probably half an hour if done outside of an auction. You underclock and undervolt mining rigs- the electricity cost is the liability. Saving 10% on electricity when you only reduce perf by 5% is absolutely worth it. This is where the backwards idea of 'crypto encourages green energy' comes from. It sounds... logical... maybe? But the demand for energy would not even exist without it. Since it doesn't meaningfully REALLY replace finance in any means, it's redundant. I ran a 24/7 overclock and my 1070 is still great though now serves as backup. Computers are meant to be reliable. Hardware is very reliable. Unreliable hardware is dangerous when you consider how many things rely on it. Those GPUs are exactly useless unless the price crashes for crypto. They are being run for no purpose, really. So you create a market that starves other markets, and this causes general price inflation. For instance, every market adjacent to GPUs has to compensate by raising prices. If it uses a gpu, it must, or it can't profit. However, because those markets (especially with something like a gpu) are very niche, it's hard to notice the loss. If we had legitimately $600 3080s, with plenty of supply, the entertainment industry would benefit in a HUGE way. That is just an easy example. No one can even try VR, let alone invest in it, if they struggle to see the use cases of a proper pc and not a laptop. All the hype of the metaverse is held back by this, too; even if there was some truly revolutionary AR VR whatever possible, nothing can run it. The things that can run it are doing hash calculations for no particular purpose. But, then, is it a semiconductor issue? Well, sort of, but demand is so raw- building a mining farm is literally a risk made speculating on the rise or status quo of crypto- you are spending cash up front for profit in the future. If you are willing to make that risk, the more you put in, the more you profit over time. The actual value of the gpu is irrelevant since profit lasts as long as the market does. If my gpu generates $3/24hr, and I pay $1400 for it... that debt is paid off in about 450 days. Now, consider if you got in mining when the 3080 launched specifically. Say you bought 10 at msrp. September 17 2020 you were able to grab 10 somehow and saw the hashrate potential already. NOT ONLY do you get that $3 in crypto a day, but if you stored it, your profit from the very first month- just september 17 to october 17- which would have been about 0.01btc give or take per gpu (.1 for the 10?), just 4 months after was worth 450% more. You almost paid it off. All of them. In the first month, not even counting if you kept going, inwhich case you are fabulously in profit. So, a market is not sustainable like that. There is no risk. So the entry cost must rise. Instead of $700, which was the entry price when no one except the most bullish believed in the market, prices rose to $1700-2000 especially at the peak. You are now paying $2000, which is committing oneself to the market UNLESS you want to take the loss and try to make up for it. So the commodity becomes an investment, and the commodity cannot be used as a commodity. Commodities are important to the economy because they are meant to support other industries. Mining supports nothing. Wear is not an issue, and never was... that is a very uninformed take indeed. But if you can't even buy the GPU it's worse than it being degraded. There IS no reasonable secondhand market. It is entirely an inflated market of scarcity. The fact they don't wear is actually a huge downside because there is little entropic risk. Time does not decay their value unless better gpus come out. And even then... accumulating the crypto is still worth it even with underpowered gpus. So the question is when is it going to be too late to sell? Or will price exponentially increase alongside hashrate? If the latter, the best choice, risk wise, is to go all in lol

[@johnnypopstar]

@@felicityc > Or will price exponentially increase alongside hashrate? Depends entirely on how many greater fools there actually are. *Or* , with the big boys having "invested" (m|b)illions themselves, how long they're willing to sit out the crash-troughs to wait for a fresh set of almost-bigger-fools to tip over the edge and power the next climb. We could be here for a while yet, but it *has* to die eventually. Or get legislated out of existence, hopefully.

[@princepeachfuzz]

Watching Dan's big brains try to construct neat sentences like the one's in his script on the fly is so cool.

[@ExiledStardust]

For me it's excruciating. It's like watching other students in my introductory speech class stumble through their speeches. They might have had good content, but their delivery was so bad that everybody else just wanted them to hurry up and finish.

[@tcritt]

@@ExiledStardust #iamverysmart

[@KingBobXVI]

@@ExiledStardust - Nothing he said here was particularly verbose though? Like, it probably wouldn't fit into a single tweet, but if that's the limit to your attention span that says more about you than him...

[@jbon123]

Certainly detracts from the notion that he has a clue wtf he's talking about.

[@3sgtecelica]

Are you talking about the script he's reading at 9:00?

[@chrisfrmatl]

I have never watched a more interesting video that was 2 hours long. I encourage everyone to watch it. So many facts presented in an interesting way.

[@Nien10]

Honestly, I would love a 'director's cut' version of the video, just go full 5 hour deep dive for those that want to go with you.

[@Goodhello369]

Nonono. I loved the video. But i dont want to hear ramblings about Political parties and phony progressive arguments.

[@streeterville773]

@@Goodhello369 then dont watch, weirdo

[@rappinron1384]

Won't happen, they don't understand it enough to deep dive. If they actually did, this video would be presented much differently and without bias.

[@Goodhello369]

The weirdo is you.

[@wen6519]

For anybody wondering. In 2023, you'd have to buy avocado toast every day for 286 years to afford a house in the US. More than 3 life-times. Eat your toast, pay your rent, keep it moving.

[@DaemionBlackFire]

I came here from Dan's video... and it's absolutely mindblowing how well he explains the dangerous aspects of NFTs and blockchains and DAOs, and this interview is an even better look into his thoughts on crypto and NFTs. Enjoyed this a lot, especially how Dan comes across as just an "everyman's man" who is really knowledgeable.

[@Ashley-xu8lo]

Wow this is so valuable! I honestly haven't wanted to read about cryptocurrency and NFTs because everyone keeps making it seem like we should really be doing these things. But I've had a weird gut feeling it's not the right move - and now you gave me some real language and ideas to use when discussing it with others!

[@TheInfectous]

No, look into it yourself, stop being a drone. When all you do is repeat someone else's talking points you're not a human people can converse with, at best you're a worse version of the video itself, why even have the conversation with you, when you can just link the video. Stop being a lazy and look into it if you wanna talk about it, otherwise shut up.

[@paquitaelmaestro1576]

@@TheInfectous aren’t we all constantly repeating other people’s talking points when it comes to subjects we do not understand. Looking into something will expose you to other people’s opinions in the form of books, articles, videos or a course etc. In the end, after looking into something, even the conclusion we make is already someone’s opinion.

@@TheInfectous We've looked into it, and no one has done anything to disprove anything of real consequence in Dan's video. All I hear is how he was slightly innacurate on DAOs or something, absolutely no substance or refutal.

[@kalibos]

@@TheInfectous Disregarding the fact that your reply is representative of the "hostile shutdown of discussion" culture that they address at the beginning of this conversation - dude, that is nonsense. There is way too much information and way too little time in a human lifetime to become an expert on everything. With the depth of most subjects, you can't even be fully versed on all the minutiae of something you could be described as an authority on. That's one of the fundamental reasons for specialization. Also, as others have said, you are doing the same thing. At some point we all have to defer to someone else's authority during the learning process. I really wish we as a society/civilization would normalize the notion that saying "I don't know" makes you stronger, not weaker. I'm glossing over a lot of tangential follow-ups to that point that I could ramble on and on about like motivations both personal and not, and why we have them, and classism, and and and... but it's all outside the purview of this discussion. Back to the point: *is there one specific example of something about crypto or NFTs that Dan or the lady* (new to this channel, don't know her name, sorry lady!) *got wrong, that you want to correct?* When I say 'correct' I mean engage in an open dialogue, not just tell people to do their own research. Use quotes and paraphrase and compare sources. Yes it requires time and effort and the assumption that SOME bad-faith actors are speaking in good faith, but it's intellectually honest and someone will learn something.

[@minhuang8848]

No, informing yourself about things is ALWAYS the right move. It's difficult because the use and purpose is difficult to grasp with a non-technical background, and even plenty of compsci people barely know what is going on here, but if you want to know more, read Vitalik Buterin's blog and go from there - it can be dense and difficult, but he makes very good faith arguments both against and for crypto. As much as I like FI, his video really was missing a huge chunk of salient information.

[@Katherout]

such an important forum for this conversation, Chelsea! so appreciative of your presence online as always

[@WotansCry]

So you dont like Dan..

[@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342]

@@WotansCry lol wut?

[@WotansCry]

@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 Basicly what she did there is like hosting a house party. Guest start to drop in and when a certain couple arrives she blatantly would only greet one part of the couple thanking the person to be here yada yada kisses ect.. And completely ignoring the other person. Like acting that person is not there... She did the same here... But she is s lunatic anyways (in tells from her channel) so theres that..

[@YTUA1983]

@@WotansCry Well it is her channel, I think you're reading way to much into it!

[@consentclub8431]

@WotansCry who hurt you bud?

[@marion_roberts]

Dan my dude, make sure to share this on your community page, I only stumbled upon this video by luck. And thank you Chelsea for covering this. You both are doing the gaming community a favor by shining the light on this blight currency.

[@shelbymary212]

Thank you for looking out for your audience in the face of these scams. Your thoughtful expertise ensures safety and security in a world of polarizing and false information. I appreciate you and I know many others do, too!

[@rappinron1384]

You are taking their opinions on this subject at face value because you don't understand it. That's scary, their bias is resulting in an NFT hating cult.

[@DavidKnopflerReal]

Thank you for helping to articulate a number of my misgivings so well. Olson’s two hour rant on his KZbin doc’ is a fabulous tour de force. One problem is that gambling addicts riding the bubble aren’t going to invest the necessary two hours, much in the same way that it’s unlikely they are going to sign up to gamblers anonymous as they probably need to.

[@ChrisStoneinator]

Couldn't agree more David. If you write lyrics half as well as you write comments, perhaps I should check out your solo work!

[@mauricehopes9105]

The best thing I've seen in a while is that "most money doesn't need commercials."

[@ADX77]

Have you ever seen a bank commercial?

[@user-ci6oo1uv2k]

@@ADX77 yes, but the difference is that banks are trying to get you to use their service, not trying to sell you on the concept of money.

[@ADX77]

@@user-ci6oo1uv2k Crypto exchanges are selling services. They're competing with banks.

[@Praisethesunson]

​Lol so how much did you lose when SBF crashed his competing bank?@@ADX77

[@aquaticborealis4877]

Dan did a heck of a job in his video. He’s always extremely insightful and very thorough.

[@pilarguerrero6891]

Thank you so much for speaking on this! It's upsetting to see the way NFTs are being portrayed in mainstream media and I'm so happy you guys are covering this topic.

[@JizzyNinja]

Seriously and then media wonders why certain segments of the population don’t trust them at all. All these stories on temporary Dogecoin millionaires don’t help

[@rappinron1384]

You take what they say at face value since you don't understand it.

[@xXRedTheDragonXx]

The part where you discussed adoptables and the furry community -- As a member of that community I can help de-mystify and explain this a bit more! Adoptables are a very unique and niche piece of the furry subculture that takes into account several pre-existing aspects and combines them into one new thing. One of the fundamental "Philosophies" of the furry fandom is the ability to create your own fantasy character, or multiple characters, to represent yourself in various ways. We also have a large portion of the fandom who are artists who make their skills available for commission so that people can purchase custom artwork of their characters. In the furry fandom, when someone creates a character -- Their "Fursona" -- it's universally understood that that character is owned by it's creator. Even though you may commission a piece of artwork from an artist, you still own the rights to that character as you came up with the idea, design, personality, etc. Artists will often take the artistic liberty to create their own characters that may be outside the scope of their pre-existing character or characters that they claim as their own for the purpose of selling that character, and all associated rights to it, to someone else. When an artist offers this type of character for sale, they're often referred to as "Adoptables". People may purchase an adoptable character for a variety of reasons, whether that be because they like the design and ideas, because they want to use it in their own artwork, or simply because they think it's a neat way to support small-time artists. When the transfer of funds from the buyer to the seller takes place, the agreement is almost always made that the buyer then owns all the rights to the character. While there is often no formal system in place (No contracts signed, and no real centralized system for tracking the ownership of characters), it falls back on the universal assumption that that character is now owned by the buyer, and they are free to do with it as they wish. Buyers will often post their newly purchased character on their social media profiles, commission new artwork of the character, etc. This is all fine and dandy, and is not in any way related to NFTs or cryptocurrency. In fact, cryptocurrency and NFTs have become greatly disliked by much of the furry community, as many artists and creators have had their artwork stolen by NFT creators to make a quick buck. I really don't think that furries or the "Furry art economy" would benefit from any such a system because the current system of "Trust" is enough for the community at present. Sure, there will always be examples of individuals claiming the creations of others as their own, but that problem is so minor that we do not really have to worry about it.

[@ng.tr.s.p.1254]

Wow that's so fascinating. I'm not really familiar with online furry nor art communities but I wonder if all the mess with crypto scams (and scams in general) might make artists want to consider "formalizing" these adoptable and commission things. (with invoices or contracts)

[@lugergre]

@@ng.tr.s.p.1254 I know this is an old comment and all, but from what I can tell, it's becoming more and more common for higher-profile artists to at least lay out terms and conditions for acceptable use of commissions they do. I'm no lawyer, so I couldn't tell if these are legally-binding in any capacity, but disallowing their material to be used in NFTs is certainly a common sight.

[@wen6519]

Thank you for sharing ❤

[@pashamarki1370]

I want the 10 hour Olsen cut of The Problem with NFTs

[@HandgunSafe]

Great interview! Dan Olson did an invaluable service by producing his video, and it came along just when I needed the information.

[@SwimmingInSunlight]

I've been seeing the video linked at least once under every twitter thread about crypto, it's clear people really appreciate the in-depth breakdown that can't be as easily swept aside by apologists as are the arguments by "the casuals" who "don't get it" 💕

[@tomhoward4905]

Dan saying repeatedly ‘non-functional’ and now I can’t get ‘Non-Functional Tokens’ out of my head

[@efueds]

The way she said 'no' when he brought up that Elijah Wood does crypto, I felt that

[@RikardPeterson]

"Elijah Wood is in it as a hobby"... I almost expected the last word there to be "hobbit". But yeah, that's sad. I've seen him as a good egg.

[@bariizlam638]

I've watched Dan Olsons's video on this NFTs ("line goes up" on his channel Folding Ideas) and I loved it. It was so informative on the dangers of Cryptocurrency and NFTs. So, I am really enjoying this conversation. Great questions and wonderful conversation. Thank you

[@dekopuma]

It's really awesome to see Dan's video gaining more and more traction. And conversations like this really show he knows what he's talking about. Thanks for having him on.

[@jenniferdonald5166]

Thank you so much for hosting Dan Olsen! I've watched his video at least 5 times... It's just so amazing!

[@Foxhood]

I'm a former enthusiast. Stopped way before the NFT insanity happened. Enthusiasm and this whole "Bro-dom" is generally short-lived. You initially step in, get sold this promise and look in anticipation. But over time you find that things are bit....off. The promises don't become reality, they instead change promising other things to attract other people and it slowly dawns that the promised future ain't going to happen. Normally the first crash one experiences is enough to smother any real sense of excitement/investment or urge to help get attention with most enthusiasts just going silent, selling off and disappearing writing it all off. Those remaining generally ditching any pretense of there being a golden future and just being there to "ride the rollercoaster" and see if there is money to be had if they just let it sit long enough. To emotionally disconnect and make a rational decision (which is the only way to stand a chance in this bigger fool game). It sadly is something many don't start with. Instead having to learned the hard way with a shock to the system. Be it by experiencing a crash first-hand, or being shown a truth that cannot be ignored like "Line Goes Up"...

[@stelkin]

I hope you emerged from this scam relatively unscathed. All the best to you, friend. Thank you for allowing yourself to think critically.

[@Foxhood]

@@stelkin Oh i don't deserve sympathy. i walked away with plenty of neat little trinkets over the years. I was one of the early players in the first few years and i knew the "game". Trading is ruthless. Its just... As Dan Olsen pointed out. Back in the early days things weren't this crazy. There was plenty of genuine debate (sometimes even philosophical) on the utility and validity of the idea of "digital gold". Those going in largely knew it was an incredibly speculative thing and the networks where still tiny so concerns where pretty low with high confidence the kinks could be ironed out. For many it was just more unstable and thus more exciting trading platform than stocks. But these days. sober traders have made way for fanatical cultists screeching "HODL", you can't go 3 minutes without running into someone try to sell a scam, A "Old money" power-structure has manifested as control centralized into foundations, mining consortium and so called "Crypto-Lords" (those who became millionaires by being early adopters and can influence the entire market), the networks have grown to a grotesque size consuming nations worth of energy, instability only increased, It made ransomware far too common and there is an increasing desperation to find a validating use-case to prove blockchains aren't just bigger-fools games (NFTs ain't the first attempt at this by a long shot!). Simply put: Sanity left the market and it is now solely held up by delusions, desperation and manias. Many of us old traders have either reduced holdings or just cashed out entirely. For we know: This is not going to end well. Those who deserve pity and sympathy. Are the poor sobs that genuinely think there is still a chance to become a millionaire. Which is why i'm so open about my former affiliation. You can easilly tune out a random skeptic as "You just don't get it", but that doesn't work on the veterans who lived through it all. You can't dismiss us and i can proudly say that i have gotten through to some this way and stopped them from buying into this mess.

[@Syne111]

Good thing you didn't buy a cryptopunk! That would have been a huge mistake!

[@bethanymangan6648]

Thank you so much for sharing this. We need more voices like this and we need more people who aren’t afraid to speak out against the craze

[@therightkindofpen]

What a valuable episode. Thank you to both the host and guest.

[@Leprikhan]

Watching this again in Jan 2023, Dan sure did end up saying a lot of incredibly prescient things

[@Manoomu]

"If you're interested in personal finance, which if you're watching this channel is probably all of you-" I actually wouldn't say i'm that interested in finance. I watch this channel because the conversations tend to be about so much more than just managing money. Came here initially for the Lindsay Ellis interview and the holistic approach y'all take with how the rest of life impacts your finances and vice versa makes the financial talk much easier to grasp for someone who is mostly financially illiterate (me). Of course I've come to appreciate the financial angle questions and I'm constantly learning, but there's so much more going on here!

[@kamiladankowska5145]

Same here :)

[@The_k81]

Crypto is the purest expression of late-stage capitalism. Utterly dystopic.

[@CarlMarxPunk]

I'm at awe at how it even happened. We have deep seated issues at the center of how the economy functions and the crypto bro's solution is MAKING IMAGINARY MEME MONEY out of thin air before trying to address the issue. This would break Marx's brain.

[@phosspatharios9680]

Ancaps and Libertarians are just like Marx: they understand a problem with a biased lens and propose an unrealistic solution that they think is good because it caters to their own interests. The solution to tyranny is not democracy neither anarchy. The solution is a better leadership.

[@Chadius]

"Man I hate banks for scamming the poor. But what if I scammed them? Then it's OK because I'm rich!"

[@Gloomdrake]

@@phosspatharios9680 so tyranny would be fine if the tyrant was benevolent? I'd disagree, but I'm sure you've got your reasons for thinking that

[@justinwhite2725]

@@CarlMarxPunk Dutch Tulip Bulbs. It's not even a phenomenon that needs the internet to work.

[@starsiegeRoks]

I'm glad that he also mentioned the advantages of Fiat currency and a disadvantage of gold-based currency. Too often you see people fed up with inflation touting the gold standard as something that will lead to a golden age.

[@rappinron1384]

There is no advantage to fiat.

[@starsiegeRoks]

@@rappinron1384 care to explain?

[@rappinron1384]

@@starsiegeRoks Fiat is centralized. Crypto is decentralized.

[@ng.tr.s.p.1254]

@@rappinron1384 🤡

[@chesterstevens8870]

All currency is promisory, it's strength will always be based on how much faith you put in whatever's propping it up. The gold standard hinges on its bearers' faith that gold will retain its value, Fiat hinges on the faith that the government printing it won't hyperinflate their money into worthlessness, and crypto hinges on the faith people are stupid enough to believe a string of digital code with no backing other than a "trust me bro" from some ethereal group of programmers will ever be useful in anything but a speculative sense. The only currency that will ever have an inalienable value is one backed by whatever people will never lose use from, seeds, lead and brass.

[@argusfleibeit1165]

Except for things that are FDIC insured, any kind of investment should be subjected to the question, "Do I have unlimited play money?" Just because we have people with insane levels of wealth, that no mistake made can cause any pain, is not a reason for the rest of us to risk our security.

[@amuroray88]

That's the problem with Crypto currency. It makes everyone an investor, and makes going to the store to buy something a gamble based on the current coin price, where as national currencies are stable on a day to day basis (price increases typically happen either very gradually, or are held constant until a spike has to occur to compensate for the added inflation effect).

[@Nemesiss120]

I love Dan's willingness to speak earnestly.

[@ShummaAwilum]

Earnestly, accurately, and with compassion for all.

[@rappinron1384]

This is an echo chamber for crypto haters, of course you love it.

[@russelljackson2818]

@@rappinron1384 why aren't any of your responses in rap form? They would be way more fun to read.

[@rappinron1384]

@@russelljackson2818 I have done that, when inspiration hits.

[@chardros]

It is very sad the fact that, as our current system needs scarcity and demand to value a good, when we find something that individually is not scarce by its nature but we would need another way of rewarding producers to continue producing, instead of thinking that it is an opportunity to create another type of economy, we force scarcity in goods that do not have it.

[@RothAnim]

Complete agreement here.

[@rappinron1384]

Does a membership to a country club have scarcity? We are not talking commodities here.

[@RothAnim]

@@rappinron1384 Potentially. There's a limited capacity to the facilities that the club offers, and at some point it would become so crowded that they are undesirable to join. That said, there's also a psychological value to being part of an "exclusive" club. Hierarchical systems being what they are, that means these "exclusive" clubs tend to discriminate not just on wealth, but on other axis as well, like race, gender and religion.

[@Praisethesunson]

See literally all software these days.

[@Praisethesunson]

​@@rappinron1384Yes. Deliberately artificial and pernicious scarcity.

[@hello9671111]

A really great and insightful commentary. We need more in-depth analysis on crypto and NFTs like this for people to fully understand what is happening! Thanks TFD :)

[@revlerev]

YES!! “MaKe people’s lives less chaotic. That right there is the greatest inoculant against predation.”

[@DinoCism]

26:20 The word Dan is reaching for here is "vapourware." You know when some techbro hacks come out with a sleek CGI video about how they are going to "disrupt and revolutionize" something that already exists and works the way it does for a reason. Now occasionally it will actually get made and you get something stupid like Elon Musk's underground death trap tunnel where Tesla's pointlessly drive around in a circle that still has traffic just like above ground and he grifts the city of Las Vegas for something that in no way lives up to what is promised. But more often than not the thing pitched doesn't even get made. It gets pitched, some money gets grifted, a kickstarter gets started and then the hyped "software/technology/nonsense" just evaporates into the ether with all the other sleek, techbro cons and the money invested evaporates with it.

[@bigchum3984]

common sense skeptic sent you here too?

[@theideaofevil]

Dude I get anxiety seeing people actually driving in those death tunnels. I'm from a very mountainous place with some actually real massive tunnels, that of course have robust ventilation and safety systems, which are still scary.

[@phosspatharios9680]

Vapourware is often a product of when incompetence meets overpromising. Elon Musk's antics are more than that, they are convoluted attempts at the old practice of "creating a problem and then selling the solution", but Musk is not intelligent enough to make them as cost-effectively as Google and Apple do.

[@TheWiseDrunkard]

@@bigchum3984 Man, that channel is so good.

[@Chadius]

"We solved this problem hundreds of years ago, it's called a train" "NO use my solution so I get all the credit!"

[@birez6625]

I follow a lot of crypto forums (mostly curious) and one of the most common posts that I see are people that got their wallet hacked and cleared out and comment after comment of people making them feel so stupid and small and just all around mean spirited on them knowing better. People make mistakes and we’re all human. If you were scammed out of $10,000 from your bank, you could recoup some of that with the help from the bank. That person lost $10,000 from their crypto wallet and will never see that money ever again. That is my biggest issue with crypto. Zero people are protected in that space.

[@snowballeffect7812]

it's the banks responsibility to protect your money. when you take that responsibility onto yourself, i'm not sure what they are expecting to happen. If I burry my cash in my front yard in full view of my neighbors and strangers walking by, obviously my money's going to get jacked. It's not ok for people to make those who have been scammed. It's also not reasonable to behave in a risky way and not expect to get burned.

[@mostHumblePersonAlive]

100% agree with this comment

[@AlicedeTerre]

@@snowballeffect7812 The risky action people took was getting into the space to begin with.

[@snowballeffect7812]

@@AlicedeTerre no, it was to hold their assets in insecure wallets on connected devices. if you move to a paper or offline wallet, there's no risk unless you have no backups and lose the physical wallet. even then, you can memorize the 24 word recover phrase and become the wallet yourself. You're right in that there is risk of permanent asset loss, but that's something most people in the space are aware of and willing to tolerate.

[@Dave102693]

@@snowballeffect7812 Ok, just move the goal post. lol

[@CarlPHBay]

The willingly overly complicated descriptions and outrageous promises that crypto-pushers give about crypto and NFT’s always seemed very snake-oil salesman-like to me… here’s this miraculous new invention, which is so incomprehensibly new and marvellous and works in such new ways and don’t ask us the specifics just buy it and it’ll solve *all* of your problems Dan Olson’s analysis video and this discussion is like that part of Sweeney Todd where Sweeney gets a bottle of “Pirelli’s Miracle Elixir”, opens up the bottle, gives it a whiff, and rightly concludes that it’s just “piss with ink”. Great video!

[@Martin-yh7vi]

I'm honestly terrified of the people vehemently or mistakenly defending this ridiculous idea. I hope this stops and we just mock it like we do with pyramid schemes.

[@NicholasMarshall]

For better part of a decade blockchain enthusiasts have been trying to sell add Blockchain to X as a technological solution. All of those scheme are just cynical ploys to get people to buy more crypto. To expand the pyramid scheme.

[@marissaarterberry8529]

I really appreciate this conversation. I'm an artist, and I see some of my peers and arts organizations I've previously worked with jumping on this nft bandwagon. Unfortunately the nature of the art world can be rather volatile, and with so many artists struggling to make a living or get their big break, we are very susceptible to predatory practices and get rich quick schemes. I would love to hear more content on financials for artists and stuff to watch out for, it's not talked about enough. Thanks for this episode!

[@rappinron1384]

Their FUD is preventing you from entering the future of the artists market. That's sad.

[@JackgarPrime]

I feel like the comment in this video about predation is exactly what happened with artists, and it happened to them first. Artists have a very hard time making a stable income by traditional means, so it makes them more desperate and vulnerable to said predation. Then along come NFTs...

[@rappinron1384]

@@JackgarPrime Yet those artists that made hardly any money selling their art, are now making millions.

[@bloodredroses88]

​@@rappinron1384 that's not true, the real artists are having their art taken and minted and sold without their permission. Somebody is making money, but it's not the person creating the art. Real artists don't have time to research everything like this, managing their time, their social accounts and learning not to click on things dropped in their wallets. Real artists are too busy making art, it's the scammers doing the online leg work to trick people into buying these fake copies of real art.

[@rappinron1384]

@@bloodredroses88 You are not as involved in the space as I am. Definitely real artists are joining NFT communities and learning how to accomplish selling their art and they are making a ton of money. What you are describing is FUD.

[@fearingmusic]

Dear God, the part about banks having a bunch of stuff tied up into crypto w/ uncertain risk profiles made me want to move my emergency fund to a shoebox under my bed fhfhhfhd

[@scottbuggy5634]

Banks never lose they would just keep inflating the currency just like Venezuela and you end up with an emergency fund worth as much as toilet paper

[@Chadius]

The only "good" news is that banks are "too big to fail" *barfs* so the government will keep them alive. At taxpayer expense, again.

[@wizard7314]

Gold dude.

[@Syne111]

I hope your fund isn't just paper printed by some mint.

[@bibsp3556]

​@@Syne111it's actually plastic where I'm from and they're backed by the gdp, as opposed to literally nothing.

[@YasmeenKhan]

honestly I'd watch the 10-hour version. a 10 part series? especially more info on how gas works, because allllll the people on twitter leave that out when they're defending their nft projects the aspect of how belonging to the club - the 'community' - makes people want to participate is super interesting - perhaps nfts are the way the crypto "cult" is outreaching into the wider world. any and all discussion on that is helpful (cf also mlms, how they separate people from their friends and family who disapprove, etc)

[@megakedar]

The space is vast, and if you're just looking for validation of a pro or anti attitude, be prepared to have your assumptions challenged. There is a lot of talk in Dan's arguments about a deflationary currency, but there are projects are explicitly inflationary like Solana and Cardano. There is a lot of experimentation, and many of the newer projects are taking on features that are steps towards currency usability. In fact with the case of many of these projects designed from the ground up to be proof-of-stake, there is an incentive to be inflationary you need that interest generation from staking to incentivize people to stake in validator nodes. This interest model is a marked departure from the traditional mining model where one is stuck with a fixed supply. It's hard for someone coming from outside to keep track of the latest developments, and some of the arguments in the documentary are slightly dated, but they are to varying degrees real points of concern. And, I think of all the videos on this topic, he's the only guy to try to get where this is space is evolving. One thing that Dan does very well was highlight how the space has moved on from just art into what are akin to shares in startup companies or even investment vehicles. These are unregistered securities and should come under government regulation at some point, but because everyone treats it as just dumb art, there's not much of a push on the regulation side. If you want an example of a fully manipulated market, there's no better example than the art world. Small-scale startups are using NFTs to issue "shares" without actually having to file paperwork with the SEC. They are behaving in almost exactly the same way as stock shares do, with holder voting and even revenue sharing rights. I think one of the more interesting things about crypto is how a movement that started out as the antithesis to the existing financial system has more or less converged on very similar financial models and practices (monkey see, monkey do), and ultimately it will eventually have to be placed under state oversight like other financial markets. Question is, with a public and political class still stuck on "heh dum monkie art" actually get ahead the curve and do what is needed?

[@darrelsteinberg4127]

"Gas" in crypto is basically what it sounds like - like gas in a car, it's the fee you pay to the validators who approve transactions. Basically, the people who buy up all the GPUs to make the computers that make the system work - your gas fee is you paying them to make the system work. Technically it exists in non-crypto money too. When you use your debit or credit card, you ARE paying a small fee (fractions of a penny to a few pennies) to the companies who actually run your cards, like Stripe. It's just that crypto's fees are vastly more expensive... which is due to a number of reasons inherent to crypto and not inherent.

[@megakedar]

@@darrelsteinberg4127 One of the things that you'll often hear now is a lot of people saying that decentralization sucks and they'd just rather have a working system with minimal fees, even if it means more concentration. This is with the rise of projects like Solana. Eth 2.0 is going to move in this direction as you'll need 32 eth to run a validation node when it goes proof of stake. Pretty ironic that these practical concerns are pushing crypto into a kind of structural convergence with tradfi.

[@Llortnerof]

@@megakedar It's almost as if maybe we'd already figured out all of this stuff over the last few centuries and all those structures where there for a reason, innit?

[@megakedar]

@@Llortnerof Because money itself is by nature a centralized creation. The archaeological evidence supports chartalism, which is that coinage was purposefully introduced by governments for taxation purposes, not arising organically as common mediums of exchange from the bottom up.

[@bastienmillecam3183]

Dan is a clever and talented guy, but also seemingly a chill down to earth dude. His channel is really his own and it's aspiring. Keep it up Dan, just do what you do

[@furrymemelady622]

I didn't expect Dan to bring up Adoptables, but I'm so glad he did. the adoptable I have I got from a friend, so it's on a permission-to-use basis. I'd recommend that if someone wants to get actual digital art, that they should talk to an online artist about commissions, some people within the furry community have actually managed to become pretty successful doing commission work, but for most people, it's a hobby in a very tight-knit subculture, so it tends to be the exception when it comes to digital ownership without DRM. of course, things like Art theft and scams can happen, but generally people within the community issues warnings on people who do that so people don't associate with them.

[@nekokna]

yeah! no one talks about the original things! commissions,adoptables, those avatar maker thinguies. all of those were made with love

[@Chadius]

If you like an artist, pay them directly for commissions or become a patron. These solutions have existed for thousands of years.

[@mophead_xu]

@@Chadius yes, exactly. even before i was aware of all the bs going on in nfts, my first exposure to them was cryptobros going "now artists can actually make money! if you support artists you should hop on board!!" and i was like, my guy ... commissions and patronage are at thing .... and when they went on to keep spouting the same "nft is pro-artist" nonsense without ever acknowledging the much older, much direct ways artists have been able to make money, that was how it became clear to me these people don't actually give a shit about artists at all.

[@jeffsmith3550]

One year later and the bank failures that are happening around crypto has me feeling like Dan knows exactly what he's talking about.

[@jboy55]

One thing I haven't seen discussed about NFTs is just how awesome they are as a money laundering tool. Is it a coincidence that the rise of NFTs follows the rise in ransomware attacks? "Wow, I sold my NFT to some random person for $3 million! So you're saying that 5 transactions ago those tokens were used in a ransomware attack? That's crazy!" In 2015, 300 million in ransomware attacks, in 2020, 20 billion.

[@Praisethesunson]

Paying randomware attacks is literally the main use of crypto as a currency today.

[@SkylightCiel]

I've never seen a video from this channel before but the conversation was so genuine and easy to follow. This served as a pretty good follow up the Folding Ideas video! Definitely subscribing.

[@fireant202]

I’m already worried about how much banks and other “traditional” institutions are invested in this stuff. I just pray if it crashes it doesn’t ripple outside of the cryptosphere.

[@aaronvdw]

Agree. It's one thing if the 'bigger fool' loses their money. But once things metastasize into the general financial markets, it's a whole new level of risk. Then the innocent will feel the effects if this misadventure goes horribly wrong.

[@ekinteko]

@@aaronvdw The solution is taxes. Close all the loopholes, make it meaningless to pursue endless profits (at the expense of the service, goods, consumers), and the whole dynamic begins to shift. It might still be cyclical, so to smash the wheel, it requires another approach. Better education for everyone, and the hiring and promotion of people who are more moral/ethical, as opposed to hiring and promoting people who come from rich/powerful families and people who are blatant liars. That's how to break the cycle. Taxes and Education. Which is what most North European systems emulate.

[@bogatyr2473]

Crypto is a perfect playground for those who are incredibly greedy and have zero moral compass... so you KNOW banks are balls deep into it.

[@okayokayfineilldoit]

@@bogatyr2473 yeah, i have a horrible feeling it definitely will have a knock-on effect, simply because of the kinds of people heavily invested in it - someone who pushes an exploitative pyramid scheme is someone who will want to minimise their risks and losses at the cost of others. I mean, hell, thats already the point, its being pushed on regular people so the rich can buy out

[@liv97497]

As usual, of course we're gonna get the short end of the stick.

[@Shlooomth]

I’ve been subscribed to folding ideas for years and I was elated to see he did a 2 hour video about NFTs and overjoyed to see how viral it’s gone

[@Syne111]

If only it was objective.

[@Shlooomth]

@@Syne111 I’m guessing you own or sell NFTs, or at least haven’t seen the video

[@Syne111]

@@Shlooomth Are you asking me? I've seen the video. I have about 5yrs experience with ERC721 contracts. Ask away.

[@Syne111]

@@Shlooomth I'm guessing you won't. Nobody does. People just come to get their bias reaffirmed, then plug their ears and leave.

[@Shlooomth]

@@Syne111 I watched the original video in its entirety before I watched this video. It’s not just fud, it’s reality.

[@AmericantWoman]

Even after this hour long dig, I'm still at a loss. But, maybe that's the whole point of this scam. If you make an idea/system SUPER complex, and only a handful of people are "in the know", then it's easier to dupe the populace. Amassing wealth takes time and patience, both which most people don't have. It's sexier (and, easier) to get stacks overnight, which is why NFTs are so compelling. Y'all go ahead and keep on investing in these unicorns, and see what happens. They're not real, and neither is digital "currency". 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@autolosss]

Best to watch his actual vid on this if you haven't already, Line Goes Up: The Problem With NFTs. Yes it's over two hours, but it's broken into chapters you can take separate time to process on, and it really provides context on why the problem of NFTs bleed to crypto and bleed to the 2008 financial crisis (one of the real takeaways being asshole investment banks and people that caused the crisis are now operating big in the crypto space, which is the red flag regardless of what you think of crypto).

[@AmericantWoman]

@@autolosss It's already in my queue, and I can't wait to take the deep dive. When I was watching this take, I kept thinking about the 2008 crash and 1880s railroad speculation, which is never good, when you're trying to sell people on a scheme.

[@TheChesnutCafe]

Part of the scam is that the actual idea is so dumb that even when you do understand it you think, this can’t be it there must be more to it, but there isn’t. NFTs are just that dumb.

[@suicune2001]

Here, I'll sum it up for you: Crypto currency is just the stock market but provides ZERO goods or services. Buying anything with crypto is like trying to buy something using stock shares. Shares which fluctuate hour to hour so good luck knowing what anything costs at any given time. Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be to be paid wages in stock shares? That's the future these crypto drones are trying to sell you on. NFT's are just MLM scams with even less benefit since you have nothing physical to show for your loss. As he put it, "At least with MLM scams, you have a garage filled with skin lotion." lol. MLM's are a form of pyramid schemes. Hope that helps. :)

[@austinz9310]

It’s easy to get lost in the weeds but the basic ideas aren’t that complex if not obscured by tech mumbo jumbo. On the investor side, buying crypto is basically no different than buying shares in a company on Etrade or Robinhood or whatever. It’s a trade based market where you constantly have buyers and sellers and the price fluctuates accordingly. Of course stocks are theoretically tied to the value of a company, which is often highly speculative but crypto is 100% tied to hype and speculation. On the tech side the main thing to know is that crypto is traded on a blockchain. Really this is a just a digital ledger, every time you make a trade you add that on to the end of the ledger which contains every transaction that has ever happened. So theoretically you can trace back all transactions to a time and quantity. Having a permanent, and public ledger of all activity ever, is of course a privacy nightmare when you think about it.

[@kaseytyring6180]

Anyone else here from Chelsea’s Notes App?

[@KeeliaSilvis]

"People become resistant to predation when they feel safe." Goosebumps.

[@Chadius]

"It's not a scam because I'm too smart for scams!" - Every scam victim, ever

[@Winasaurus]

@@Chadius "If it's a scam, why are so many other people bought in then? Are you saying we're ALL stupid?" - Every stupid idiot in a scam.

[@k.morningstar7983]

exhaustion, fear, and depression are a helluva way to develop pinhole view how you get into gambling, addiction, any variety of harmful behavior and how the poor remain poor. it's too mentally taxing, no matter how pure your intentions are to get out of the cycle, i''ve seen it for myself

[@rappinron1384]

Said the person participating in a central bank controlled system.

[@Acid31337]

Thats the whole point of Bitcoin. It calls out the FED, and its policy that makes people sleep bad at nights knowing they have devaluing dollars in their bank accounts. If FED and government want to defeat bitcoin, they should stop predatory financial repression e.g. printing money _forever_.

[@TheRiverser]

What an awesome guest. I’m very glad to be learning about Dan through the TFD channel, I’m excited to check out more of his videos and ideas.

[@OpqHMg]

welcome aboard. They're phenomenal videos ♥

[@NicholasMarshall]

Dan's older videos will teach you the basics of film theory. And the language that film and video games use.

[@carlyparana8231]

Fantastic video. The comparison of crypto to MLMs is so honest and raw. I have been thinking the same thing for a while. Thank you.

[@Lius525]

"I think Elijah Wood is in it..." "Nooo" I felt that 😂😂

[@jessicaharlan8996]

Can we also take a minute to appreciate Chelsea's haircut 💇‍♀️

[@chantelle5515]

Thank you for this video! The NFT landscape is very confusing and filled with people trying to exploit those who are less knowledgable or desperate to make money.

[@rappinron1384]

Fake news

[@Tacticool_Mutton_Chops]

Thank you for talking about how this is a product of our failing system. The alienation and stagnation is causing so many deaths of despair, I've had like 10 friends take their own lives this year either intentionally or by overdosing. It's getting really fucking old how our system creates predatory situations that take everything from people and grinds them into dust.

[@rappinron1384]

Crypto is designed to solve the issues with our central controlled system. You have it backwards.

[@xavdeman]

@@rappinron1384 Yet it's highly centralized around a couple of exchanges, whale holders and mining pools. There's also no system against 'wash trading' falsely gaming the market. Also, how does a *deflationary* system solves the problem that newcomers are disadvantaged compared to early miners?

[@rappinron1384]

@@xavdeman Centralized exchanges are just on ramps. Plenty of decentralized exchanges you can use. Since crypto fluctuates, you can cost average in. It's not a pyramid as people love to claim.

[@1301cb]

⁠​⁠@@xavdemanit allows late adopters and working class to shift from spenders (inflationary fiat system) to savers (deflationary bitcoin system). How does this happen? Well your savings actually appreciate in purchasing power over time vs pricing increasing over time. This video simply misses most the mark. They talk like there aren’t winners & losers today, or wealth discrepancy isn’t at peak level. One of his big criticisms was the example of a 5 yr old becoming an inevitable late adopter. Well what happens to them in the current system? They’re either rich when born and it gets passed down, or they work their ass off and hope for the best. It’s not an argument against a bitcoin system. People who are smart enough to see where things are going should be rewarded. This entire video and comment section proves we are still early and there’s plenty of time to jump on the winning side.

[@erikarredondo6470]

I watched Dan's video twice. It's long but it's all killer no filler.

[@alizzie46]

This is great. The IMF did a report about how crypto rise and fall in value mirrored the stock market, thus not behaving like a currency or even a commodity at this point. I understand that crypto was made so that it wasn't tied to a governing agency, but if it doesn't create any oversight it's going to remain like a MLM it is today.

[@phosspatharios9680]

You know crypto is **** when even the freaking IMF can make a valid point against it

[@nibblitman]

I mean if you look for far back it really really looks almost exactly like an MLM just one set up for people into menes rather than board stay at home moms. It need more people buying in, and critical questions are squished as hard as possible, they try to make it into an identity and an in group, ext.

[@rappinron1384]

Once the market cap reaches a certain point, it will detach from centralized markets.

[@DianaCHewitt]

@OntosC7 Any day now. *10 years later* Any day now. *100 years later* Any day now.

[@RunBayou]

Currency is definitely a misnomer

[@joelman1989]

So happy to see Dan getting this much attention. The amount of time and attention he puts into his work is crazy.

[@alsayers]

Thank you so much. Clarified so many things I have been thinking about for a few years now.

[@Labbfreak]

Such a interesting discussion and Dan’s video was an important and useful watch. Thank you for delving into this, in spite of all the pressure to not speak about this investment space.

[@CaiominTwin]

the fact that "Line Goes Up" has now tripled that view count (to 12M) in a year and change is amazing to me

[@thiccrat]

chelsea: welcome. dan: no, YOURE welcome. haha, that was a new one. dear lord, is the extra 10 hours of footage available somewhere? how deep does the rabbit hole go? i feel like my sanity is already too tenuous but also it is fascinating. i have a few dollars from years ago that i have to go through a whole ordeal to try to access now, no clue what its worth. i used bitcoin once and purchased it once. i'll keep buying lottery tickets.

[@matt_9112]

If you bought long enough ago, chances are it'll defo be worth the time reaccessing it, you'll essentially reap the early adopter benefits talked about here (no judgement ofc, just a matter of fact, I'd give it a try myself)

[@LeahAllstar]

Loved this video!! Much needed with the rise of NFT’s!

[@Visteus]

Man, when I was getting my CompSci degree, block chains and crypto was just gaining steam. My senior year, for our final "senior design" project there were a couple professors who challenged teams to come up with usages of the block chain. Not one of those projects got off the ground, and they had to pivot 2 months in to completely different topics. Looking back, I should have seen that as a sign, as for a time I was a small time "crypto bro" for a while, convinced that it was a cool new tech with infinite possibilities at best, and at worst it was my golden ticket. Eventually I realized some of the issues, and then NFTs brought it really into focus for me, and your original video managed to vocalize a lot of the feelings I had around it all

[@rappinron1384]

Voting via blockchain, perfect use case.

[@xavdeman]

@@rappinron1384 Have you heard of voting secrecy? What's the problem with paper ballots combined with proper voter ID?

[@rappinron1384]

@@xavdeman I'm all for voter id. This id can be your unique voting address on the blockchain. Sure older generations love their paper.

[@lanceschlenker8397]

Thanks for interviewing Dan Olson so we can get more information on NFTs and crypto!

[@futuresecondwife]

Thanks Financial Diet for this ethical and informative video on NFTs/crypto!

[@samuelglover7685]

Wonderful conversation! Olson's great, and it's really nice to see a knowledgeable, on-the-ball interviewer.

[@vulpixelful]

I could relate to what Dan said about compartmentalization. Like, there are crypto artists who make real, not procedurally generated, art that make a living from crypto. But there are many, many more financially desperate people who lost their savings, or like Dan said, cannot afford to make impactful "investments" in crypto. It's like housing prices that sky-rocketed with stagnant wages, but 1000-fold, plus there's no alternative way to get resources. At least you can still rent shelter if you can't buy.

[@mabelvonsmolcat]

I have friends in the art community who have had their art stolen off online forums and put on NFTs :(

[@vulpixelful]

@@mabelvonsmolcat Yes, there's also that, unfortunately. There's so many factors involved, some good faith actors, _mostly_ bad faith actors

[@suicune2001]

I really don't see how artists can make money any easier with crypto than with just normal money. If anything, it's throwing a third wheel into the mix because crypto on its own has no value so the artist has to actually sell that crypto to make any money. If you have a commission for an art piece then do your commission and just accept once that art is out there, everyone else has it for free. But at least you got paid for the service you provided, as agreed upon.

[@vulpixelful]

@@suicune2001 What I meant was artists that create crypto style art, exclusively for crypto exchanges. From what I've seen it's kind of like video game concept art. And yeah, I agree but a lot of digital artists aren't getting compensated for their art to the same scale as traditional mediums.

[@suicune2001]

@@vulpixelful Yeah, that's what I've been hearing. I think it's just the nature of it not being something we can touch. It's a digital medium. Yes, the person put real hours into making that art, just as they would if it was on a physical canvas. However, that art feels less real because it's on the internet and once someone else sees it, they can very easily obtain a copy of it without paying for it. Anything online is going to be seen as less valuable for that reason.