CFI Narrates Traffic Pattern - points out pilot mistakes in airplane control leading to bad landings

[@camsmeltzer9388]

My first stop on solo cross country was KAUN. The terrain rise on east side is deceptive and I ended up way too high and had to go around. Thankfully, second approach was on the money. Stabilizing your approach is key.

[@prestonmiller9552]

Great tips Jason. I have seen two excursions from the runway, both by Moonies, that came in too fast. Having your approach stabilized simply can't be over-emphasized. One of those accidents caused a completed gear failure and a prop strike that caused the plane to be scrapped because it wasn't worth fixing.

[@jeffhiner]

Airspeed control on descents and in the pattern is notoriously difficult in a Mooney. If you're descending straight ahead, even with power off, you're not generally able to slow down. Not typically an aircraft I'd suggest for someone still trying to get their PPL, but it can be done. Slowing before the base turn to me says "I tend to hit final too fast and want to slow down earlier". If you're hitting abeam the numbers at 90 knots that's a lot of energy to bleed off even with the gear down. Flaps aren't going to do much to slow you down either, certainly not as much as the barn doors at 40 degrees on an older 172. I'd try a slightly longer and wider pattern to allow more time and more room to make those adjustments, focusing especially on how much trim adjustment is needed for each speed. A longer final also gives more time to feel out the crosswind, and gives time for a second GUMPS check! As your student figures out the proper feel for setting trim and bleeding off energy in pattern turns, you can start to tighten the pattern back up a bit for safety. The apprehension of slowing too much in the base to final turn is very reasonable. I've found some practice with slow flight and steep turns often improves confidence. Maybe demonstrate some accelerated stalls at altitude as well to show what the aircraft will do. Establish 100 knots level, set pattern descent configuration/power (12", prop full forward, gear down, some flaps), then start a level steep turn until you get the buffet. My instructor continued to hold backpressure doing this demonstration, and I swear he did another 180 degrees of compass rotation right on the stall edge with the yoke nearly full back, indicating about 75. As long as you're coordinated, the Mooney's stall characteristics in this scenario are surprisingly tame. In general you'll just swing a bit wider as the nose drops for you, and of course you'll lose some altitude. Not something to encourage in the actual pattern of course, but useful knowledge.

[@flygirl6048]

Jason, back at it again with the fire vids! This is going straight to my pre-solo student :)

[@TheFinerPoints]

awesome! thx

[@metamurph]

great expansion from the webinar.

[@petsmith7772]

Video starts at 0:37

[@aeromatt]

more like 2:05

[@Parr4theCourse]

Excellent tips!!

[@jakew9887]

Great advise. Thanks

[@vincerozewski2316]

I fly a piper Arrow 180R. My approach speeds are much higher than a Mooney. 120 downwind, 110 abeam the numbers, 100 base and 90 below on final/ flare. Since it falls like a brick, it feels good to have extra airspeed in case something doesn’t feel right on landing.

[@danielreuter2565]

You don't think it's weird to be abeam the numbers above your flap extension speed of 104?

[@vincerozewski2316]

@@danielreuter2565 At first, but not really. This particular arrow I fly, Vfe is 125 and I could extend gear at or above that airspeed too if I want.

[@danielreuter2565]

@@vincerozewski2316 oh then you should have stated it was mph. The video was in knots. The speeds are similar. I agree with using higher than book speeds in the arrow. The book specifies 75 knots on final which is actually on the back side of the power curve. I use 85 to the fence flaps 25. It's harder to control with flaps 40.

[@vincerozewski2316]

@@danielreuter2565 Yeah, whoops. I should’ve realized that before i replied

[@jimmydulin928]

Yes, too much airspeed made other error worse. Runway alignment was pretty good on short final as there was just moderate wing wagging from using aileron. He let the centerline move away right just before touchdown, however. I taught dynamic proactive rudder movement and no aileron in TW airplanes, but it is more difficult to get nose wheel pilots to use this perfect alignment technique. Since we do not wish to turn, there is absolutely no reason to apply aileron with its adverse yaw. A lot is going on in the short final phase and the steering wheel will cause much trouble.

[@RobertoMoita-z3l]

I own a M20C Mooney and understand they love flying. Airspeed is rule that have minimum tolerance in landing a Mooney.

[@Ifly1976]

Another great video, thank you. Perhaps you could make a video about a recent experience I had as a fresh solo pilot. I flew in variable winds for the first time and experienced something that felt a little weird. I was doing pattern work on Rwy 22 and winds were variable from 220 to 190 @8 G 15. On one of my takeoffs, after I turned left crosswind I noticed I was skidding. When I stepped on the ball to coordinate, the felt sensation was very odd. As I made the turn I felt like my body was sliding toward the door, I could feel increasing pressure on my left shoulder against the door as the gusts pushed me. It just felt weird, a skidding left climbing crosswind turn into variable left quartering headwinds. Honestly, it spooked me for a second before I processed what had happened. I did another touch and go then left the pattern to work and ground reference maneuvers, mainly turns around a point in those winds. Any insight, including any drills for dealing with a climbing left skidding turn in winds, I’ve noticed this seems to be fairly common in some of the groups and student pilot forums I’m in.

[@alk672]

Gusts and turbulence happen, not much you can do. If at any point you don't understand what's going on - just go wings level and nose on the horizon. Fly straight and level until it starts to feel more normal. Gusts will throw you around and it doesn't make sense to fight for coordination or altitude, you won't get either. Just maintain wings level and neutral pitch, you'll be fine; doesn't matter if you get thrown around or the ball is not centered. Then go fly somewhere and figure out where to land if it's so bad you aren't sure you can come back. Remember you have hours of fuel, the only real danger is yourself trying to do something rash and stupid. And it's probably not the best idea to fly in 15 knot gusts if you're new. Ease into it. It's probably not a big deal if it's straight down the runway, but if it's gusty it may also be variable in direction, and you won't know until you know, by which point it may be too late. Takeoffs are probably more dangerous than landings.

[@Ifly1976]

@@alk672 In Tennessee 15kts gusting is pretty much every day. I’ve not flown with less than 9 or 10 kts, since I started. This was my first experience with the winds changing this dramatically so shortly after departure. I’ve had to deal with pretty much every wind condition out there, including shear, this was my first time with variable winds, which wasn’t forecast. It’s spring, so it’s going to be windy regardless, I just was a little surprised by the skid. I went back up with my CFI yesterday and the conditions were similar, he suggested I stay coordinated and keeps saying what he always says, “you’re the boss, make the plane do what you tell it” steep turns and turns around a point with winds helped me out a lot. I’ve learned that pretty much any struggle links back to the basics. I fly with 2 CFI’s and they both always seem to go back to the beginning anytime I need clarification. Ground reference maneuvers, steep turns, and slow flight seem to link to everything we do as pilots.

[@alk672]

@@Ifly1976 well I mean... you can't stay consistently coordinated in gusty winds, they will blow randomly from different directions. You can try to chase it with rudder, but all you're doing is putting extra stress on the airframe for no good reason as you won't be able to remain coordinated once the gust is gone or changes direction. As long as you maintain a safe airspeed getting out of coordination is not an issue.

[@Ifly1976]

@@alk672 ya, I think the main thing was the left climbing aspect, how many times have we been told, high power settings, high angle of attack, skidding, low airspeed. I went back and watched my cockpit video, as soon as it happened my reaction was good, lower the nose, shallow the bank, step on the ball. The sensation was very strange, cross controlled in a left climbing turn with a quartering headwind pushing me back towards the runway, and the left turning tendencies at their maximum. We did some lazy 8’s in the wind yesterday and it was pretty much the same. The winds in Tennessee are so difficult sometimes, the terrain really plays tricks on you, you gotta get up to 4000ft or so before it evens out.

[@elias4214]

How much do you allow speed below the target number? I think the issue is that good landing is not to overspeed, same time students are too afraid to be below the goal speed, as -1knt already triggers "watch your speed"

[@TheFinerPoints]

I think you should be able to consistently hold the airspeed +/- 5 kts

[@t67m]

​@@TheFinerPoints In smooth air, I teach +3/-2kts.

[@alk672]

I remember how I first learned to fly the traffic pattern and I absolutely can't imagine doing that in a Mooney. You seriously expect a pre-solo student to fly the pattern in an airplane that doesn't want to slow down, and also has retractable gear and constant speed prop? Sounds like the worst idea ever.

[@Jetairplane]

If you are 10 it’s fast that is 14 percent greater than 70 kts. Square 1.14 and you get 30 percent more runway used the plane won’t land until it’s ready!

[@t67m]

Overall I agree, but two things jump out at me. First, in many aircraft you need to slow down BEFORE you can deploy flaps/gear, and it's much easier to slow down whilst flying level than in a decent. Second, and much more significant, I really hate this fixation with choosing the middle of the runway as the abort point (both for landing and takeoff). Admittedly for most light aircraft on most US runways this is safe but lazy, but in some aircraft and on shorter runways itsl is positively dangerous. I routinely fly an aircraft with a 400m landing roll onto a 500m runway - if I'm not landing within 50m of the start, I'm probably going to go off the end. The abort point for landing should be no later than the expected ground roll plus 50m before the end of the runway, or half the expected ground roll after the start of the runway, whichever is earlier.

[@alk672]

Both great points. Even a 172 won't easily slow down to flap retraction speed if you start descending once abeam the numbers, so you won't be able to deploy flaps. I'm really not sure what Jason is saying here. In his particular situation they were already slow, so yeah, maybe made sense to push the nose down, but generally you will need to fly level for a while to get into the white arc. I imagine in heavier high performance aircraft that's even more true.

[@warren5699]

Agree that half-way down the runway is a questionable guideline. In your example of 500m/1600ft, it would leave 800ft, which is close to the maximum braking effort distance. Why would anyone not use the standard FAA guideline of landing in the first third of the runway so they have a more universal guideline? And even then, as I'm sure you know, there are a few runways out there where that is too far down the runway. On the other hand, if the runway is longer, the pilot can take advantage of that and pick an aiming point well into the runway, which can be very advantageous in the event of an engine failure.

[@warren5699]

@@alk672 The speed issue is somewhat confusing. The main problem was too much speed on final. But the first mistake noted was that the pilot was too slow. Not exactly a logical remedy.

[@thedurangotang1754]

90 80 70. But also you are slowing and passing through those speeds. Should the speed be changed in the turn and roll out exactly on speed?

[@mattbasford6299]

I never look at the airspeed indicator in the pattern. I look out the window and land the plane. The whole 90-80-70 thing is foreign to me. By the way, I make great landings.

[@jeeplife5262]

Great skill. Just watch the windy days! Once you get to instrument flying, you will have to watch the airspeed as you lose that ground reference.

[@FlatOutMatt]

You want a cookie?

[@KimWentworth-y8e]

That's scary. You have to have the correct airspeeds.

[@alk672]

That's all fine if you always fly the same aircraft at the same weight, same density altitude, and your power settings are always consistent and exactly correct. If anything at all is different you won't be able to judge your airspeed visually, and that puts your life in grave danger. I suggest you rethink your approach.

[@randalbrauner2846]

why dont CFIs bring the little toy plane inside the cockpit? its such a valuable tool in my opinion. im currently working on CFI and plan to bring the little toy to help visualize certain maneuvers.

[@kentd4762]

Because the student should be flying the plane; the CFI monitoring for safety and instructing and both looking outside seem like good reasons to not bring a toy demo to use in the plane. They're for use on the ground when flying the airplane isn't the primary responsibility.

[@LicenseToTill]

Because the cockpit is a terrible classroom. Agree with the other comment: the cockpit is fly the plane and to stay ahead of the plane by using all resources efficiently and effectively

[@blakes2275]

The airplane is a tool for training, not a classroom.

[@Timberns]

I say there should be more focus on salvaging landings than just baling out with go arounds… The first time you lose an engine… You’re gonna sure wish that you were more experienced turning imperfect approaches into non eventful successful landings