John McWhorter Discusses ‘Woke Racism’ Book on Anti-Racism

[@modogg42]

it is refreshing to see people who don't necessarily agree with a topic have a pleasant dialogue where both sides do not end up yelling at each other

[@lhermanus9524]

Great point. But the only reason Marc Lamont Shill is not being condescending here (as he oftentimes is to particular types of guests) is that he respects, as an academic himself, the academic chops of his guest. Otherwise he can be low key condescending and unpleasant. Here he was cautious; treading lightly. But yes, we always welcome a polite dialogue where we don't have to sift through the unpleasantness and loudness to get to the meat of the matter.

[@jamesmoore4397]

@@lhermanus9524 you said that a lot better than I could have....

[@lhermanus9524]

@@jamesmoore4397 thank you; now and again I manage to say things cogently enough. Peace, sir!

[@jamesmoore4397]

@@lhermanus9524 peace to you as well.

[@theblindprogrammer]

I suspect the reason he is not yelling over him is that he respects him as a person. John maybe a conservative, but I sense he is the kind of person who is a conservative not because of money, but a true believer.

[@buzinaocara]

McWhorter consistently tries to focus on the topic of improving black people's lives, while the interviewer always brings the conversation back to how not to let the white people off the hook. Basically, proving the book's point.

[@emmanuelboakye1124]

👍👍

[@blackpuppy5645]

This man is full of it. White people exclusively dating marrying someone white doesn't make them racist.

[@arguescreamholler]

That's not what he does. His job is to continue the racist stereotypical bullshit told of black people. People are surprised to see and hear black people in Chicago not living as described. *In this interview he's not telling he's attacking the black population for white racial hatred.* Saying in more words than needed. *The White Nationalist Genocidal Nazi Operations Are All In Our Minds And Doesn't Exist!* Just like Scott and Harris Said!

[@jtstevenson81]

@@arguescreamholler It's clear in reading your post that you don't give a damn about improving the lives of black people. You're just racist against white people. Pretending to care about black lives is a strategy used by racists like you to be able to spew your hatred without worrying about being called out for it.

[@arguescreamholler]

@@jtstevenson81 As if you know me. I'm on the ground improving lives everyday! That doesn't mean to overlook life and Mystory! The truth of my heritage. Or to kiss the asses of those that hate me. Overall the guy is known only by white people and black people that follow politics. Which is also why he has a total disconnect of what's going on in black communities, households, our minds. *This is a non issue because it's fake!*

[@darubra]

"We’re taught that we’re supposed to identify possible instances of racism in everything that we see and that exercise, and it becomes an exercise, doesn’t have anything to do with helping black people in underserved communities make their lives better. We’re distracted by posturing over activism." Nailed it.

[@draunt7]

Problem is that without engaging in such an exercise, people never identify and deconstruct the internalized biases and how those biases manifest through structures in society.

[@darubra]

@@draunt7 Identifying and calling out racism where it exists is healthy. But today’s myopic focus on externalities distracts from more difficult yet salient conversations and actions to address racial equality. Also, speculating on any and every possibility of racial discrimination, sub-conscious or otherwise, really disempowers people from making meaningful change because, for many, it removes the burden of personal responsibility. It’s much easier to say “you need to change” or worse, the ambiguous “they” need to change or “the system” needs to change than to admit “I need to change” or even that I can help my fellow through my own actions. Our time would be better spent taking real steps to build eachother up rather than tear eachother down but it only takes speculation to accomplish the latter while the former entails hard work. My last thought here is that attempting to root out every instance of racial discrimination is an exercise in futility - a waste of precious time and resources. Unpopular as it may be, there are prejudices rooted in every persons’ mind, whether they’ll admit it or not. It’s just a human trait; a shortcut we take to associate things that appear similar and make assumptions. The question is whether or not the prejudice is acted upon. Identifying those instances doesn’t require an “exercise”. Most people are good and decent, despite what news outlets say, and can spot racist actions for what they are. In past eras racism may have been accepted but for the past several decades, it is generally has not been.

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

Except it's not, because anti-racism has a comprehensive and varied political platform about what it would take to seriously address institutional racism, a platform that McWhorter wastes no time considering in the book.

[@billbradley4878]

@@draunt7 The assumption implicit in your argument is that most people have even a modicum of self awareness, they do not. You have to work within the restrictions of human nature at least. If you think you need society wide self awareness to happen in order for there to be change you will never achieve your desired goal.

[@HansKeesom]

@@draunt7 Even with that exercise it will not go away. Put your time and energy into really helping people that need it.

[@DCL87]

Mad respect to Marc for bringing legit intellectuals who disagree.

[@13e11even11]

Agreed. Marc has a legit forum, and has civil discussions, about real issues.

[@drakewilliams10dw]

Yes it is!

[@thetruthfacts7272]

If only he had the ability to meet their intellect. Marc is a moron

[@francistherrien]

Also, respect to Marc for making a much superior job as an interviewer than Nathan J Robinson. This is actual excellent work (but way too short).

[@thetruthfacts7272]

@Dnomyar Akunawik 🤣 wow. Strong argument on your behalf.

[@bebopkirby]

Marc’s logic is so convoluted and tortured that while l’m sure it’s heart felt, it is for me almost impossible to follow. He seems to me the perfect example of black woke that McWorter is talking about.

[@yosquidd242]

Marc is in the role of a journalist, J McWhorter is late with his safe white bending of "wokeness", very late.

[@Stumashedpotatoes]

@@yosquidd242 do u think it's relevant to your ability to reason that you cannot form a coherent argument

[@Billabongbabalog]

@Stuart Mashaal I couldn't follow anything he was saying. How did you interpret that?

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

@@Billabongbabalog As a failure on your part

[@goatlandia8457]

@@yosquidd242 Marc is in the role of a journalist? Bwahahaha!!!! 🤣 He’s clearly a activist that tries to spin everything he disagrees with!

[@seoz774]

I cannot believe McWhorter of all people is framed as the ‘contrarian’ in this discussion. Everything he said was incredibly obvious and rational

[@wtf-qr3vq]

I could tell you were white before I even saw your picture. People like you are always looking for kindred spirits from the darker side

[@seoz774]

@@wtf-qr3vq Using race to psycho-analyse people makes you look racist, my friend.

[@linksaze3806]

Except for the constant redherrings and strawman arguments. This topic isn't as complicated as you conservatives want to make it out to be.

[@seoz774]

@@linksaze3806 "Conservative" is a meaningless buzzword at this point. What exactly was so complicated about McWhorter's criticism? As opposed to the identity-obsessed, language-controlled, morally panicked view that white people = oppressors and black people = oppressed?

[@linksaze3806]

@@seoz774 Oh you can call it whatever you want white Nationalism, sons of Confederates, white separatist, Patriots. I don't care. All one needs to do is have a discussion with your kind on the issues. You conservatives tell on yourself everytime. Just recently your conservatism gave an audience at CPAC to Victor Orban. And the message was being against a multiracial state. Conservatives were so proud. Make America great again...right 😉

[@ArmandoMPR]

Marc is one of the ‘elect’ that John writes about in the book.

[@anyakirby2014]

I disagree. Marc is prepared to listen, be curious to another opinion and even give it a platform. The elect would never do it, and would immediately throw a Woke tantrum as soon as someone questions their « truth » using derogatory names like « house slave » and others. As if a house slave had a cushy life.

[@willardaustria]

@@MrWhiskeycricket Exactly.

[@YouJGSousa]

@@anyakirby2014 He didn’t listen, he just talked past John. This was not a discussion, it was two people stating what they think, no compromise.

[@Harvey077]

Lamont like 90% of African Americans think whites owe them because as a collective blacks under achieve compared to of ethnic groups! Stop blaming and take responsibility

[@m.g.3021]

@@MrWhiskeycricket He did ask for specifics.

[@jonz23m]

Wokeness has a Strong element of narcissism.

[@ChrisRubeo]

Well said.

[@mikew2610]

Wokeness is an idea that was changed to discredit other ideas or institutions. You folks need to stop playing checkers and learn chess.

[@svalbard01]

Makes sense because it's very post-modern and critical, so "readings" of everything are "problematized" and rejected and only the self remains. If you've got 45 minutes, check out Michael Sugrue's lecture on Lyotard (it's here on KZbin). It's about 30 years old but is very prescient (and entertaining!) in explaining a lot of the intellectual power struggles of today. The project is to basically propagate a norm of critically delegitimizing any "narrative" based on authority, consensus, etc. John's idea of "let's just focus on what works" (i.e., based on evidence and data) is very pragmatic and even scientific, and those (science and pragmatism) "grand narratives" impel the critical animus of post-modern thinkers. That's my rambling summary.

[@a.m928]

@@svalbard01 I dont think John cares about what works since data and evidence very clearly supports CRT and the idea that the US has systematic racism.

[@theblindprogrammer]

I never understand what people refer to "Wokeness", doe people mean by PC?

[@rlsullivan85]

I’ll give him credit for bring mcwhorter on. Never thought I’d see the day

[@home4life505]

Sad that a he is getting credit for bringing on other views. Isnt the news media suppose to be unbiased?

[@rlsullivan85]

@@home4life505 it is, but if I’m going to bash “news outlets” for only reporting bias points of view (which is starting to become the norm unfortunately), I’ll acknowledge them when they do the right thing just so I don’t look bias myself.

[@politereminder6284]

Credit to John's agent. He's been making the rounds. I disagree with him, but I appreciate his voice in the dialogue. Too much talking past each other on this topic

[@yosquidd242]

Certain species one must be careful with.

[@edwinamendelssohn5129]

@@politereminder6284 MLH never listens

[@swcordovaf]

MCWhorter is so right. He correctly and accurately reads the damned if you do damned if you don’t scenarios. The “hook” of the race hustlers is just that. It isn’t about helping a situation, it is about keeping people in the guilty box forever.

[@machsimillian14]

You literally said "race hustler", you're nothing good.

[@swcordovaf]

What else would you call it where those who seek to constantly plow up racism for their own political or personal benefit? When all you are is a hammer you make everything into a nail.

[@machsimillian14]

@@swcordovaf that's quite the oversimplification of the issue of racism. The fact that it affects all of our institutions is pretty much a fact. Statistical data shows this, even when all other factors have been accounted for. Acting like it doesn't exist doesn't do anyone any favors or improve people's outcomes, it just keeps the inequality thriving. Acknowledging that it exists doesn't automatically make white people today guilty of perpetuating it. Once all of this is established, we can focus on deconstructing the racist infrastructure.

[@swcordovaf]

All of our institutions? Come on, talk about over simplification. Serious people who are data driven see that and see that someone is trying to find something that isn’t there. A reasonable person would say that the impact of past racism has some impact in some locations and in some institutions and in some ways. That is the sound of someone intelligent. Race hustlers see it everywhere and the cause of everything like air. That is simply untrue and deranged.

[@forensicaccountant259]

@@swcordovaf How about calling it Trumpism? Your surname tells me you know EXACTLY what racism is.

[@rodrickdewberry5635]

What is there not to disagree with Marc, when we look at the murders in Chicago we can either spend all our time blaming white supremacy and all of its derivatives… or we can focus that energy on a pragmatic solution

[@rodrickdewberry5635]

@Shawn Upton I am certain the media is only showing a portion of the story but in all honesty… none of the chi town guys I went to college with in ATL returned to chi after graduation, and I regularly speak with people moving here who’ say they could no longer raise their families there, I hear the same from New Yorkers too. However my original point was less about Chicago specifically and more about the authors appeal for action vs constantly blaming white people for the brokenness of America.

[@bekimcolaku5258]

When Trump was president he offered Lori Lightfoot to bring in the national guard to handle the riots but Lori Lightfoot said no we don't need your white supremacy here

[@thescrolls9190]

Chicago has nothing to do with black families being denied housing in predominantly white areas.

[@lyledavis7175]

Chicago homicide rates in the early 90s were twice as high as they are now. The right and left media make Chicago and other cities to be these Beirut-style war zones.

[@mrobert2707]

Reading the replies, I question whether the commenter’s point was addressed. Whether it’s Chicago or anywhere, when will we start focusing on pragmatic solutions? That’s where the dialogue should be focused. Well said sir, and it is a point I take mchorter to be making. Thanks

[@Renee302976]

I totally agree with John McWhorter, we need less conversation and definitely more solutions👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@liquidjackson7172]

It’s a very simple point-I agree.

[@felixmosca1051]

There is no solution so long as white America looks upon its black fellow citizens as stolen property...not quite legitimate Americans, more like immigrants or refugees. It's hard wired in white American collective psyche.

[@GabrielRodriguez-um8fi]

Smart!! I agree with you

[@emmettebramble10]

It is not about having less conversation. It's about having more of the right conversation.

[@dramese]

And you thinks he gives solutions by making wt’s people comfort his first priority than giving the solution. Full of contradictions

[@Tt-nt1iu]

I'm a simple man. I see Prof McWhorter and watch.

[@Y0utubeIsFuckingHomo]

man's head looks like a chicken nugget

[@jb411000]

The foolishness of wisdom.

[@edwinamendelssohn5129]

@@jb411000 he speaks from knowledge which he continues to acquire and ponder. Marc is stuck in bigotry.

[@wataki2]

same

[@machsimillian14]

@@edwinamendelssohn5129 the gaslighting is strong with you. The actual bigoted ideas you support, while shunning the antibigoted opinions.

[@FrankCostanzasLawyr]

The contrast between Marc L. Hill's frenzied speech and John McWhorter economy of words is staggering. Such elegance in his arguments. Perks of being a linguist, I guess.

[@IGNANT4LIFE]

shut up you cape wearing suicidal-person saving LD.

[@FrankCostanzasLawyr]

@@IGNANT4LIFE I will not. I'm very independent, I don't follow the trends.

[@IGNANT4LIFE]

@@FrankCostanzasLawyr and the winner is: YOU. well done. :)

[@IGNANT4LIFE]

@@FrankCostanzasLawyr faith restored in humanity due to your response. Have a great Thanksgiving!

[@IGNANT4LIFE]

@@FrankCostanzasLawyr all I could hear was Stiller's voice. lmao.

[@LeniqueKintea]

Prof. McWhorter is KING!!! Love him!!!

[@arguescreamholler]

You need to look deeper.

[@BxChef.207]

@@arguescreamholler Actually you do, fool.

[@henryt4695]

@@arguescreamholler now now, don't be jealous.

[@364anw]

He is not. Actively listen to what he's saying.

[@lemroyaljames8758]

Good interview. John Mcwhorter is right.

[@VEEZY55]

SAID THE WHITE GUY

[@snowbunny783]

@@VEEZY55

[@CourtneyHaynes]

No, McWhorter continuously avoided the crux of the issue: his book engages in strawmen. Plain and simple. He oversimplifies things and when he was called on it, he basically said "Well, we shouldn't be talking about this anyway."

[@1dpaisley]

Yep. Said the other white guy😂🤣😂

[@Blocphace]

I'm curious, what is he right about?

[@dinorino2]

Marc L. Hill is as woke as f**k, but he has the decency and the courage to bring to his show (time and time again...) smart and eloquent ppl who think differently

[@bellison74]

I always say not one person or way is correct and that we need all them points of view! Lord knows I couldn't do this Martin Luther's way but I could follow the teaching of Malcolm X or Garvey. We don't need one plan we need a number of them as a people to be successful.

[@Yournamehere1009]

If you think that this brothers woke you are sadly mistaken. Constantly being a victim of something we weren't there for is the exact opposite. Yeah it feels good to see a brother on the screen sounding smart but the message and the narrative is disgusting and holding us back. We have a finite reservoir of things we can take on. So its a complete foolish to be stuck of something that happened to others in the past. Here's one why are folks from every continent wants to come here huh. Why is it that immigrants come here do better and dont complain about the same things. We look so stupid fighting for what the "woke" are. Remember gods watching and he doesn't listen to excuses.

[@TNDCBaby]

@@Yournamehere1009 Others in the past? Woke is noting how the past has impacted our present which is what Marc tends to do.

[@marleyj7711]

@@bellison74 ; Well said ; all black don’t think the same way. We need more open debate among black who want the same ends but have different ways of getting there.

[@bellison74]

@@marleyj7711 as long as we don't war with one another and keep it all love with forward movement we will get there.

[@RyanAustinDean]

Because both Marc and John are measured and willing to have an actual dialogue, I find myself more open to hearing “the other side” of the issue. Kudos to both men for representing how discourse should take place.

[@johnpichon689]

What’s the other side of an injustice issue?

[@blainenewby]

@@johnpichon689 It's not an "other side". They're on the same side, just disagreeing with how to solve the issue. You didn't read the book or listen very closely.

[@johnpichon689]

@@blainenewby you idiot I’m referring to the person who made this comment we’re under, mentioning the other side.. If you can read very closely I am questioning this feeds comment not the video

[@09BiGDylan]

@Denavio Leeks stop spreading lies. Even if that were true, which it isn't, you are just saying that so you can runaway from the conversation. It's easier to disprove someone if you can just discredit them for who might pay them and not for their actual ideas. It would seem You're apart of that religion John talks about.

[@LukeAdamMiller]

@@johnpichon689 Injustice issues can have more than one legitimate side. It isn't always injustice on one side and justice on the other. There can be two sides, both aligned with justice, with competing strategies for achieving it.

[@timmeyer9191]

As an independent with conservative leanings, I would like to see the federal and state funding to universities with athletic budgets of hundreds of millions redistributed to trade/vocational schools in/near poor communities as financial aid scholarships and for businesses to relocate these graduates to areas where they have jobs available. I think this would help create more middle class citizens from these poor communities and provide better lives for their children.

[@JonDasBoot]

Tim ... that would be a great start. College athletic programs originally started out providing their proceeds back to academic programs (now they just feed back into athletics ... gotta have new uniforms/stadium/special housing for athletes!). It would be a great thing ... and something the schools should be proud of doing.

[@theblindprogrammer]

I don't know why the trades are not "cool" anymore, everyone nowadays want to be a tech-bro behind a computer screen all day. No one wants to be an electrician, plumber. Tech jobs can be outsourced to India where programmers are willing to work cheap.

[@christhomson7669]

That is one of the best ideas I have ever heard. As a trade school graduate myself, I think the trades need to be encouraged more than they are.

[@dcar7446]

@@theblindprogrammer exactly trade schools is where it's at I definitely think young black people need to get up on those jobs some pay just as good as those computer tech jobs

[@tonyfubu]

you know people who enter the trades like sports! stop academizing the world! europeans love sports and yet they still have been able to foster a more robust intellectual culture. simply identifying what you don't like at a university/college that doesn't suit your bookworm lifestyle and defunding it won't solve anything. nor does it address where most money in universities go too (i.e. the "bullsh&$ jobs" in administration, resort-ifying the campus)

[@leonardu6094]

Man, it's very entertaining to see just how speculative Marc Lamont Hill's entire worldview is.

[@rbarnes4076]

His ideas are rooted in assumption, not proof and evidence. This is what I dislike about his positions. The entire anti-racist left right now is making all language out to be racist dog-whistles. As though some random white granny who goes to church every Sunday is looking to enslave black folks and keep them from eating. It is an absurdity of the 1st order. Yes, I'm sure there are racists in the world.. I've met them. But the vast majority are just not that way. And as I've said elsewhere, the Marc Lamont Hill's of the world have not made a good argument against this one very important point: Sub-Saharan Africans who immigrated to the USA are outperforming USA born whites in average income at this point in time. These immigrants are visually indistinguishable from USA born black folks.. so if racism against sub-saharan black people is so pervasive and devastating, why are the African immigrants so successful? Until someone on the left can answer that question, they are not going to get a fair hearing from me. The entire set of arguments hinges on us believing institutional racism exists, yet without any evidence that it does. Just people assuming some motivation and pointing to cherry picked instances rather than doing double blind tests to find the real truth of things. IF the left can prove my point wrong, I'll listen. But so far, I only hear crickets.

[@Acruz93_]

Marc Lamont Hill is actually proving John McWhorter’s point. The pushback, the body language, blaming the white man, and the never ending satisfaction of excuse for why black people are on the back burner. It’s a never ending cycle of trauma the black community has to fight or get over, it’s like a trigger for him.

[@angelbrother1238]

McWhorter is an amazing free thinker and a non conformist . This is why I have been listening to him for quite a few years . He is not the kind of person that would out an idea forth to please any group but he genuinely forms his opinion from deep thought . We need more professor mcwhorters in the world

[@kobekold]

Who especially you gets to decide when trauma has ended

[@shakira9468]

He so dumb, black democrats can't stand a black person who's not obsessed with race

[@felixxtcat]

Summarized... Host: we need to play up racism to maintain a sense of urgency so we can change policies to be more favourable to black people. John: playing sh*t up is a deceitful, unproductive distraction that sows more division, cynicism and misunderstanding than it's worth.

[@markrussell3428]

Perfect summary. I am in McWhorter's camp, figure out what is wrong and focus on how to make life better. Some people seem to struggle with that idea.

[@felixxtcat]

@D'Angelo Trawick watch from 12:40 to 13:10

[@machsimillian14]

Wow, you guys really can't help yourselves. The saddest thing is that you really think that you guys are the informed and enlightened ones, all because you have your "black intellectual" (your one black friend) to cite as your source...

[@felixxtcat]

@@machsimillian14 Uuh, the race of the speaker doesn't determine the truth of what they say. I don't need a black person to tell me what's what. Nor do I need anyone of any particular race.

[@markrussell3428]

@@machsimillian14 I am not tracking your point? You have two people here that appear very clearly on opposite sides of how best to address an issue. "Black intellectual" ? Sure, they are well informed and passionate. I see nothing disingenuous. I just find one person presents a more realistic and logical argument.

[@cadarnell1]

When Marc said we can’t let white people off the hook he pretty much just spit out his whole philosophy on racism. John’s nice after that but he knows Marc is caught up in the religion. It’s sad.

[@thomassowell3324]

Yeah he’s after revenge, not equity. He was on Candace Owens last year and the guy is so lost it’s scary. So far down the rabbit hole that he is unsavable.

[@Misterdeeh3000]

What are your credentials? How do we know if you have critical thinking skills?

[@zeroceiling]

Misterdeeh3000 …no credentials are required in justifying his views. Clearly these are simply opinions formed by the impression an average listener may come away with upon listening to this exchange. Obviously these may not sit right with everyone, but we certainly do not need an ivory tower referee to explain to us how to “correctly” feel about this.

[@anneb889]

I get dizzy with all the arguments. White people can’t be let off the hook….so what is the goal?

[@NoahBodze]

@@thomassowell3324 It’s quixotic. Revenge for what?

[@JHank-yb4jv]

You can support the betterment of black American lives without being anti-“white.” 🤯

[@reggiehughes7577]

Who said they were anti - white just making shit up now 🤣🤣🤣

[@reggiehughes7577]

Who said they were anti white just making shit up now 🤣🤣🤣

[@curtiswarren8628]

White people ain't on the hook for nothing. White Christians are the sole & only reason black folks are free today. If not for us, y'all may very well still be wearing dog collars up to the present day. Europeans spent the better part of a century policing the oceans to abolish slavery. They also paid the price of the civil war. A devastating number of lives were lost. Now we need to discuss reparations. & How black Americas will pay white Americans for their trouble. What's your freedom worth? Because if not for us , you still be a slave.

[@amaradominique]

Exactly! I ain’t never forgetting. I am 60 and lived it. Been going through micro aggressions for last month.

[@Slowly_We_Rot]

@@amaradominiqueI deal with micro aggressions from blacks on a day-to-day basis. Quit with your mediocre complaints. Tape on that fucking mouth - SHUT!

[@NOYIMEDIA]

"A white supremacist world" - What a sad statement to make.

[@m.chumakov1033]

And dishonest. It's Meritocracy World which is casually called a White Supremacy World by grifters like Marc, Joy and those on the picture. They all thrive in this world but choose to smear it for their own reasons.

[@GoSuMonSteR]

@@m.chumakov1033 Meritocracy, hahahahaha! Comments like this is the real reason these issues are intractable. Burn America to the ground at this point.

[@prybarknives]

@@GoSuMonSteR it's certainly not ONLY a meritocracy, but it is a meritocracy to a large degree. That doesn't change the fact that, for some people, having their merit (or potential merit) become known to the right people, is very difficult. But that's what John is saying, focus on helping people get the merit they deserve and be elevated. Not focus devicively on the myriad ethereal reasons they haven't yet.

[@m.chumakov1033]

@@GoSuMonSteR all you can and want to do is burning and looting. Split is inevitable, brains like yours can't be fixed.

[@DublinDapper]

Almost like Barack Obama didn't exist

[@williamsutherland9669]

Mcwhorter knows full well that this presenter is missing the point and frankly woke. But he goes on in the hope of reaching the audience. Otherwise his demeanour would be more ruthless.

[@theblindprogrammer]

The man has to sell copies, at the end of the day

[@welcometototalitarianism812]

Yup.

[@glacierglider8893]

As a white person living in a $10,000 house in murder central Lamont doesn't seem to care about black people in the hood the way McWhorter does. He wants to just talk about the right-wing and talk about some high minded idealistic shit that does nothing except make rich people feel good. My husband does more good bc he is mechanically very gifted, a savant of mechanics and every trade and we live where he gets to help people bc in the hood class issues are the main issue. Rich people can't understand that having a great free mechanic that will take the time to teach you while he does it if you are interested can really save someone's day or week or month. Poor people having a car break down or plumbing or electrical problem can really make a person feel so overwhelmed enough to just give up. They want to make us hate each other starting with the children and that is what I would do if I hated black people. I was on the left most of my life and what they are doing is going to make everything worse for everyone except the ruling establishment. McWhorter may be rich and not very hood like but he genuinely cares and I don't believe that about Lamont bc he doesn't care about solutions. He glosses over the contradictions as if they aren't important but in real life a woke person will just say to a white girl she fetishizes black men and not even know anything about her except she is dating a black man. They don't talk it over in some high minded discussions. My white unarmed neighbor was killed by cops last yr and it got 20 secs local news. 18 of the 20 in my state killed by cops in 2020 were white and most had no bodycam including those with knives as the weapon and that's all I know bc none were covered more than 20 secs. Black people kill more white people than white people kill black people and it never gets covered and considering there are way more whites so they just don't kill more of us in real numbers it's disproportionately really high. It's sad bc I hate saying this but people need to realize that all they are doing is the bidding of the ruling class who wants us to hate each other. Sorry, white people aren't hunting black people in the streets bc if we are we are some piss poor hunters killed more by the prey more than there are hunters to kill. Most white folks know this and most of us we let it go bc most of us really do understand we need to work together. I was pulled off the street and raped and being choked to death when a man was coming and he ran off. When police wanted me to do a line-up of a suspect in a similar case I wouldn't do it bc I truly lost his face in my mind. After telling them they still pressured me to do a line-up and I told them only DNA would ID him and they said if I didn't point someone out my rape kit wouldn't be processed. This was in 1998. I sleep just fine I never got justice because I didn't cause an injustice by doing a line-up. I am not out to get black people bc one individual that happened to be black tried to kill me. I know white men do that stuff too. But, I am not going to pretend that there is a thing called "whiteness" and it is all bad and evil. No! I will just care about my all my neighbors who don't talk this shit. Even if I agreed with all of it; nothing would change in this hood for anyone. In fact, they are wasting time worrying about what little thing white people might think so no politicians ever have to come up with actual solutions bc they don't want it to be better bc they need us divided. I have heard about 20 shootings from my livingroom since 2020 and maybe one wasn't black and Lamont doesn't have to worry about it because he doesn't see it. I do. I don't care about blaming black people for it like they would say a racist would. No, I just know something needs to happen here and if you will not even talk about it bc the evil right-wing will use it then what? It's like rich people want to win some ideological war and don't care how many people die as long as the right-wing can't point to black on black crime. You can address it without blaming a whole race. Who cares if some right-wing person says anything? Most of the time the right-wing seems to care more than anyone else bc the left pretends it's not happening which is far worse and shows just how little they care about black people in the hood.

[@glacierglider8893]

@@theblindprogrammer he could have easily gone the woke route and made money but his books are so thoughtful and has actual solutions. I live in a $10,000 house in murder central and the left only cares about going after people for words they say and don't ever really care about solutions bc in this hood regardless of race most problems are class based. Hell, the only unarmed person killed here was my white neighbor last year and it got 20 secs local news but I still will say this hood has problems that are class based. Whatever some average white people with no power think about race is never going to make anyone's lives better in this hood. The left tried to Kenosha this hood and black men with guns sent them packing before they made it a quarter block in. The left expects us to get mad the right went to the Capital, please at least they didn't come here to protest and riot against poor people bc that's all that is here and the establishment hoped they would get in and burn it all down and the white folk would have gotten arrested and gone viral as white supremacists if we forced them out using guns so it was up to the blacks to save the hood from spoiled suburban kids who would go home and sleep in a neighborhood they would never destroy and riot in. I really appreciate they saved the hood. The left has no idea how many people they are losing over this and black people are not a monolith at all and plenty do not like the left. The left ignores the major problems here bc they just care about winning an ideological war on Twitter. Can't care about the 20 shootings I have heard from my livingroom since 2020 and the insane rise in murders all over this country bc the right-wing might say some shit about black on black crime. Can't lose a one-day Twitter war. That's how I think of Marc. McWhorter doesn't care about ideological wars on Twitter that are meaningless here in this hood. He cares about actual real solutions and knows the woke bullshit is a huge wall in the way.

[@joaquinbanuelos6046]

Bruh he’s a journalist. He’s supposed to ask hard questions. He wasn’t attacking John. He was posing oppositional questions that allowed John to defend his arguments. That’s what a good journalist does.

[@jordanthomas4379]

“Black news tonight”, sounds like a satirical news outlet on South Park.

[@wilfigs9705]

😂😂😂

[@DublinDapper]

😂😂😂

[@reazonuk2362]

😂 I know right. The second I heard those words after hitting play I couldn't help but chuckle and shake my head. Its mind numbing. I'm from the UK, the Indian ethnic population is the 2nd largest group here and I'm amazed....amazed they haven't jumped onto this bandwagon ....YET at least because during the sane decades they migrated here along with black ppl, they faced the same hostility and u hardly see any "representation" out there in movies, most sports or popular music (as some examples) despite being such a large group. Hopefully...hopefully its because (a) from personal experience of mixing with them, the family unit is very tight and has a strong emphasis on being educated and starting your own business (b) because of their success, they hopefully realise the past is the past and have risen above this toxic victim culture.

[@tagon70]

@Reason uk Pls mate.If it wasn’t for the US military that included black soldiers,you’d be speaking GermAn.America is whole different animal when it comes to race..This country actually burned and and bombed communities that thrived sir.Comparing Blacks struggle in America to the Indian struggle in the Uk is Asinine!!!😆Past isn’t always past ,it is often prologue.

[@HVS-gk7oo]

😂😂😂

[@maryboylan3093]

A voice of reason love John.

[@fallon5775]

He is not a voice of reason for us blacks who refuse to just turn the other check on white supremist racism born In America. I guess we just made it all up? There's no racism going on no way! John is a coward. As for you mary you know danm well better the truth about America. We ALL KNOW!

[@fallon5775]

P.s. piss on my leg and tell its raining. That's America in a nutshell.

[@sylezjusz]

@@fallon5775 he keeps repeating - also in this interview - that racism exists for the slow learners like you but I can see this is a futile endavour

[@leonardu6094]

@@fallon5775 He is a voice of reason for me

[@bbraat]

@@fallon5775 Spend the rest of your life being a victim. I hope it works out for you.

[@MrRawnerves]

McWhorter is right. Everything is view from a racial lens and the examples he shows in the book are on point. For Hill to continue pushing the issue shows a perfect example of these dynamic at play. Dammed if you do and equally Dammed if you don’t.

[@trollingisasport]

Not just for whites. I feel for well-spoken and hard working members of the black community who are called Oreo and other things to degrade them.

[@jordanthomas4379]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2SXq5uAe66hbsU

[@hebrewthought9976]

Why don you focus on the third world country I’m sure you fled from

[@hebrewthought9976]

Everything about America has been racial you anti black bigot

[@dontbmadjusbcareful]

If the shoe fits

[@pevitzachast6892]

Respect to Marc Hill for bringing Dr. McWhorter on. I think Hill was outmatched, but it was interesting to watch.

[@YouJGSousa]

When is he not outmatched? The basic argument is so simple and so basic, but Mark is a race hustler, a “black nationalist”. He sees everything “us versus them”, so why shouldn’t white people play the same tribalistic game? I honestly don’t get this type of confrontational posture. John is perfectly right, the woke left spends all day in generic power imbalances analysis, and never provides solvable problems. I honestly didn’t they are not interested in solving problems, it would put them out of business.

[@welovecheshirecats4557]

@@YouJGSousa Can you imagine a "White News Channel" that talks about black folks 99% of the time?

[@YouJGSousa]

@@welovecheshirecats4557 i can’t imagine a channel being called white news network.

[@katiek.8808]

@@welovecheshirecats4557 I would love for someone to make a white news channel. They should literally copy word for word scripts from this channel and just reverse the colors. This audience would lose their minds.

[@sumanadasawijayapala5372]

We basically need more black people broadcasting what white people want to hear.

[@rashadabdulazeem5387]

Mr. McWhorter, speaks with reason, not emotions and assumptions. He is definitely a sound voice of reason and logic that more black Americans need to plug into. Blacks like Mr. Hill wrangle and fret over what whites will think, the right wing, should we really care? If a white woman is not attracted to a black man is that racism? what about a black woman not attracted to a white man, racism? I'm sorry, Mr. Hill why should we care?, are you looking for their approval? So, what!! Excuse me, yes whites should live their life as normal, just live by the golden rule. I don't need whites to cuddle me or even like me, just respect me as they would want to be respected. We spend so much time on the trifle things in life, no wonder we have high stress rates and the health problems that come along with it. it's not all about whites. Gun violence is killing a whole generation of young black men in the inner cities, yet our leaders focus on critical race theory, and systemic racism as if we somehow solve those problems then our lives would be better, maybe, maybe not. Honestly I'm getting tired of blacks always complaining when there has never been a better time in this country to succeed. Nigerians and other Africans blacker than us come over here and take advantage of the American educational system and thrive, they don't come with wealth, many are poor. What's the difference? Behavior, belonging to a caring nurturing environment, making sure books are in the house and being an active participant in their children's education. So we remain at the mercy of whites, hoping that we will change their minds and hearts, which we have been trying to do for over a 100 years.

[@a.m928]

James is a supporter of Republicans legislatiom to ban history that may possibly make white kids feel bad about their race. And you ask why one should care what white folks think Mcwhorter certainly does. Alot. Also in one state a right-wing Judge sent thousands of black kids to juvilne detetion centers, some as young as 11, for things such as mot intervening while other kids were fighting. You know that being sent to a facility is a huge predictor for a futire life in crime Ahmad Aurbeys killers almost got away because a conservative prosecutor thought they did nothing wrong despite seeing the vid. If you think the right-wing dont matter u are naive at best. Btw many of these Africans as well as Asian are in fact from their nations upper classes. Sorry to burst that bubble. Ofc ADOS can do better. One should always strive for that.

[@pevitzachast6892]

@@a.m928 ugh. Go away. You are so mistaken.

[@Kai-tn4yx]

@@a.m928 You are just so wrong. And btw., nobody should ever feel bad about their race.

[@a.m928]

@@Kai-tn4yx how am i wrong ? I never said u shpuld feel bad about ur race. However they never cared about blacks feeling bad about their race. Also the truth is the truth, should we not teach about slavery, Jim Crow and the Holocaust because white people might feel bad ? Mind u this the same people saying Confederate statues must stay lest we forget/deny history. But they dont wanna teach that same history in class. You cant have it both ways.

[@petera618]

I have a question. What exactly is the definition of a "White" person in this country and how does one distinguish between a racial stock, a culture, or an ethnicity. Me , for example, on paper, there is no other box to fill other than "White" because there is no box for "Sicilian". Am I being forced to be put in an "Oppressor" category unjustly? I am from a recent immigrant family that came here for a better life. The history of my family is Sicily, one of the poorest regions of Italy and my ancestors had nothing to do with what what happened on this continent. Also my parents never taught me to dislike people because of their race, There were plenty of people here that didn't like Italians, especially Sicilians. Another example, you tell a random young white boy "your ancestors were our oppressors" and the boy tells you all four of his grandparents came here from Poland. Read up on Polish history before you dare call them oppressors, they were the oppressed and the same can be said for many other "ethnic" immigrant groups. My point is where do you draw the line, who exactly do you choose to blame in contemporary people for "Systematic Racism", and past injustices solely on physical appearances without knowing their background?

[@LuckkyCanuck]

I appreciate how straight forward John is. He's easy to understand because his points are logical and usually self-evident. Marc uses fancy sounding words that mean very little in context, to try to confound his perceived opponent. If you really listen to him you're left asking, WTF did he just say? It's often sweet-sounding nonsense. Michael Eric Dyson is a master of this trickery as well. Luckily John is too intelligent to be dragged into the murky depths of Marc's illogical ideological arguments.

[@darkknightmentality5979]

I thought it was just me asking WTF did this dude just say. That's how you know he's full of shit, or at the very least regurgitating a narrative.

[@Pacdatty831]

Serving word salads all day, fresh off top, who wants some? 😄😂

[@mirkovic]

Only a fool or someone who’s been living most of his/her life inside their rectum would try to bamboozle with language a Professor of Linguistics!!

[@MrJoshbunyan]

You are absolutely right.

[@ninadaly7639]

I say “WTF did he say?” At least once during any session with MLH! The man seems to have a very limited understanding of the concepts he’s touting.

[@zachbrown8350]

This is the most refreshingly thoughtful and thorough discussion I’ve heard on McWhorter’s newest work yet. Mr Hill strikes the perfect balance between respect, debate, and authentic research.

[@jonatopik]

I agree almost completely with John, but i really respect how MLH approached this conversation. Respect to both men.

[@Stumashedpotatoes]

Well Marc actually opened with some extremely disingenuous points about Johns intentions, so i actually think his approach was rather nasty. In general he seems to be a gotcha-man who sneers at his opponents while describing their positions. But sure, johns own politeness and directness kept him in line here.

[@feliciadogbe1313]

If you've never been attracted to a black person it is anti-blackness? 😂 What nonsense is Marc on? I'm black and this is even absurd to me.

[@kamsolusar8529]

You missed his point. Marc touched upon the internalization of whiteness being seen as superior. Not being attracted to a black person is due to racial conditioning of the idealization of white beauty. Saying is racist is simplistic; it's more about learning how much we have all internalized racist ideas, attitudes, and norms. How is someone going to say that out of all the black people in the world, they are not attracted to any of them? That doesn't even make sense logically. Do the research, black women are seen as less desirable than white women. This isn't anything new. It's the reason why Denzel refused to kiss Julia Roberts on sceen. Read the interview where he talked about the importance of resisting that reinforcement of white women being desirable over black women.

[@YouJGSousa]

@@kamsolusar8529 There are so many types of blacks. I’ve lived in Africa and different ethnicities have different physical characteristics, and while some are very similar to caucasians but with darker skin, some have very different features. As a white man, I’ve felt attracted to the former (there are some very fine black women) but not the later. Is it white supremacy or just the fact I have a certain standard of beauty?

[@kamsolusar8529]

@@YouJGSousa you can't divorce your preferences from the context of your society. We are all shaped by it. Why do white women get idealized in the media? That doesn't happen because they're "objectively" more attractive. We've all been conditioned by the systems of white supremacy. Why is it when you go to India and Pakistan, there are commercials for skin lightening products? Because anti-Blackness is global. Closer you are to black, the less attractive you are according to white supremacy.

[@YouJGSousa]

@@kamsolusar8529 “conditioned by white supremacy”…. Yeah, that’s it. Bye, I have zero patience for this type of talk.

[@kamsolusar8529]

@@YouJGSousa Yeah, take a critical race theory class. You're struggling because you're uneducated.

[@a1-x-yt]

Conversations like this need to happen much more frequently.

[@seniorreact9627]

This is what the world has been waiting for. We need more. We need a longer discussion.

[@agh2561]

He sounds weak

[@edwinamendelssohn5129]

@@agh2561how is wanting actual solutions weak?

[@sandyadventures]

Old white guy here. He is 100% right. I love all and avoid some. Avoid people that will do you harm.

[@OM-sb2bd]

Marc: “But you’re letting white people off the hook!” John: “What’s the point of the hook? How does that concretely help any black people?” Marc:

[@malcolmmccoy3401]

Weren’t white people the ones who invented race and thus racism?

[@mlovmo]

Exactly. MLH wouldn't know how to solve a problem for blacks if the solutions jumped up and bit him in the arse. And I think that just happened here.

[@panchodelaverga8929]

And just like that…Marc demonstrated that he is one of the “elect” that John McWhorter writes about.

[@ceceroxy2227]

right, marc is who he is talking about

[@ceceroxy2227]

@Lisa Stettin MCwhorter is actually sensible, Marc just wants everything to be racism for everything and look at every single issue through race rather than reason.

[@kevinmiller8165]

And what is John but the “elect” for the right? The guy works at the Manhattan Institute- a well known conservative think tank. His label-mate is the admittedly dishonest Chris Rufo, the architect of CRT panic. Just one establishment hack talking to another.

[@phoebusapollo4677]

You can’t lie to yourself…. If your your parents don’t care, no one will. Society and the government cannot replace parents’ care and wise upbringing.

[@thomasreaves588]

NOT TRUE, very often a person with bad parents or even no parents at all, will find support and care from friends, neighbors, aunts, uncles, cousins etc.

[@jpete3027666]

What a refreshing discussion. I’m a straight white male and I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s and I was raised at that time to be compassionate and empathic towards social justice causes, which I always felt that I was. The movement back then made sense to me. The last 10 years this whole thing seems to have turned upside down and become absurd. Now as a white guy I feel like I’m in a no win position. Shouldn’t white people and black people be working together? It seems to be the movement the last 10 years or so is driving us all apart.

[@purdysanchez]

It's funny to watch a shill pretend to interview a thoughtful man.

[@alsdyall]

Props to Marc L. Hill for bringing someone on his show that he knew would best him.

[@darrylpete7551]

Not a competition. These issues are complex and so far, no one person or entity has the entire solution.

[@leronharrison1110]

Marc Lamont Hill didn't lose to him; see my post about the problems with McWhorter and his inability to think deeply.

[@RonnieD1970]

@@leronharrison1110 really? Jonh who is part of a duo on BloggingheadsTV and talks deeply about race and racism ...for hours...weekly...for years. John also has written several books on race and racism. Challenged Kendi X, HNJones, Di Angelo etc in their positions. Yeah you sound like know nothing about John.

[@leronharrison1110]

@@RonnieD1970 Really. Again read my post and the criticism contained there.

[@alsdyall]

@@darrylpete7551 What McWhorter was saying just made sense and spoke to the complexity as well as the beneficial value of some issues over others. Hill is an ideologue and bent on defending his ideological beliefs regardless of how reasonable or practical the critique of them may be. It seemed like a competition because even though McWhorter was making clear practical sense, Hill flat out said he disagreed with him -even though he couldn't say why and had nothing to counter his arguments with. He just...disagreed.' That's a competitive stance. A priori.

[@freethinkerrr2897]

It’s sad that in this day and age someone like Professor McWhorter would get dismissed by many “intellectuals” on the left and painted with the broad “conservative” brush. What he says makes so much sense on so many levels. Good conversation and kudos to MLH for having on someone he knows he disagrees with.

[@niriop]

Hill seems to think that putting meat on those contradictions means that the contradictions disappear...they don't, they grow fatter and ugly. And I know he presents that "we'll blame the white man" bit at the end as a joke, but...I really think it's *not* a joke given all the other things he's said about white people.

[@SkeletonModel91]

Hill was being tongue-in-cheek but it definitely isn’t a parody of what he really believes. “Keeping white people on the hook” is a lucrative industry that serves all kinds of purposes except helping black people.

[@welcometototalitarianism812]

True that.

[@tomatoesandradiowire482]

Well said. But I think in a sense what’s happening is that John is saying the OUTCOME is a contradiction whereas Marc is arguing that the INTENTION is not. I tend to agree with the McWhorters of the world because I find the current, cultural, racial conception today to be a frenzied series of contradictions that do no good but I get that Marc is arguing that in their fetal state, independent of cultural movements, these “contradictory” ideas are ultimately born out of us just trying to be thoughtful about all our actions. But John is trying to say okay Marc but everything is negative or “racist” if you put it under a microscope. Solving these problems doesn’t require that level of scrutiny. It’s no wonder this woke stuff originated in college classes decades ago. It really reminds me of an English class exercise where any action or character can be anywhere on the moral barometer depending on the deconstructionist lens under which you view them.

[@niriop]

@@tomatoesandradiowire482 I guess you can say: anything is possible in the social realm *in theory* , but when you begin to apply hypothesis to reality and they either conflict with it or with each other, then you're going to have to drop them, or think of a new hypothesis to test (and the *testing* is the most important bit).

[@tomatoesandradiowire482]

@@niriop 100%. But we can't even reach that step because now "objectivity" and "scientific reason" are each various, but unequivocally condemnable, shades of "white supremacy."

[@bookovza3925]

Lemont is a lightweight, and it shows when speaking to a true intellectual like John.

[@mervyngreene6687]

Yeah. Lemont looked out of his depth.

[@Bornearth75]

Agreed. I expect a PhD to be able to articulate better arguments.

[@bbraat]

@@Bornearth75 Some of those PhDs are handed out pretty casually.

[@Danoftheconda]

Lemont is weak as hell. Agree so much with your statement

[@Modupehsautowork13]

Disagree

[@MichaelJones-rg3hv]

Definitely got me interested in the book. Marc needs to do longer segments so there can be a real debate. So many times I have watched his videos just to see him strawman the opponent's argument and then shift the subject or go to commercial. I'd like for his interviewees to have time to push back against his criticisms.

[@michelep6300]

Agreed. Every time I watch one of his interviews, I can predict when Marc will announce to the guest that he's 'being told to take a break', and he'll then go into a lengthy, monologue, leaving no time for the guest to respond right then and there. This frequently happens at the end of the show, as well. I t's one thing for him to play an effective 'devil's advocate'...It's another for him to monopolize what little time he has. I'm sure he does have to take those breaks, but the way he manipulates the show's pacing to his guests' disadvantage often leaves me frustrated.

[@nattiejanes]

Check out Andrew Yang’s interview with him

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

@@nattiejanes it was really good IMO

[@ryanlowe1781]

This ain't as complicated as some would like you to believe. Just help the poor no matter what colour skin they have as Jeff Bezos and Robert F. Smith are doing fine. The powers that be are scared that poor Americans will get together and vote out those who have something to gain by you being divided.

[@davidgreen6490]

Nonsense. Try a little thought experiment - If a black man said he only dates black women would you consider that racist? If a white man said he only dates white women would you consider that racist? If an Asian man said he only dates yellow women would you consider that racist? And then of course we have the old - Its fine for black people to call themselves black but what would be the response if someone called an Asian yellow or an Indian brown or a native American red? The left woke clowns have driven the cause of black people beyond them being the oppressed to the point where some would see them as the oppressors now!

[@a.m928]

@@davidgreen6490 lol Jesus u are just copy-pasting nonsense. Are u reslly argue that the supposed woke left is trying to be the oppressor.

[@davidgreen6490]

@@a.m928 No. Can you not read? Or are you a leftist yourself and read words but assign your own meanings to them?

[@a.m928]

@@davidgreen6490 Oh i can read I am just not very impressed with your nonsense. I am realist.

[@davidgreen6490]

@@a.m928 What about that post is nonsense? Answer the three questions I asked.

[@michaelwojcicki3624]

Mr Hill credit to you, free speech is still alive.

[@ryancummins8067]

Apparently free speech is still allowed however; this professor seams to thick people calling out on going issues of racism, means you are "Woke" or "Virtua signalling" This professor also said that Critical Race Theory is teaching black people to think all white people evil and all black people are victims of racism. Critical has absolutely NOTHING to do with demonizing all white people, Critical Race Theory, is a university text study, it's focuses on institutional and systemic structures in America that discriminated against none white people. Especially in the justice system and law enforcement.

[@a.m928]

You do realise that only goverment can censor. Most people that bitch about free speech have no idea what it is or how its actually restricted.

[@a.m928]

@@ryancummins8067 thats Mcworter way of silencing people. Shoot the messenger. MLK was apperently woke then and virtue-signaling.

[@michaelwojcicki3624]

@@a.m928 CNN, META/FB, GOOGLE and NBC censor regularly.

[@jrkephart]

More conversations, less vitriol. I’m a fan of Mcwhorter and I respect Mr. Hill for talking to people with conflicting ideas.

[@KCal1213]

Dr. Hill

[@malvolio01]

@@KCal1213lol… what a joke

[@KCal1213]

@@malvolio01 the joke is the fact that you wish you had doctor before your name. 😂😂🖕🏾

[@MitchM240]

Kudos to Marc for having someone on who disagrees with him. It is very rare for anyone on the left to do that. John is the man.

[@vivahernando1]

Who on the right has people on that disagree with them?

[@MitchM240]

@@vivahernando1 Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson, Larry Elder, Dennis Prager, Steven Crowder, I could go on. Most on the right are open to debate but most in the left are not interested in a free exchange of ideas.

[@MitchM240]

@ippos_khloros Well regardless of motives we’re all better off by having an open market of ideas. everybody say their ideas out loud and everybody’s free to choose what they think is the best idea. cancel culture comes from knowing your ideas are inferior, if you actually have superior ideas then you defeat bad ideas with good ideas not by censoring and silencing people

[@vivahernando1]

@@MitchM240 I always see them bring on the "I left the left" types like Greenwald or Poole that just shit on the left. Maybe I'm missing something

[@jackriver1999]

Shapiro and Crowder only debate blue-haired, naïve, naval-gazing feminists for views. They are not serious debaters at all.

[@NoMansLand24]

I so agree with John. What are the outcomes of all this “wokeness.” That are tangible to everyday people?

[@sumanadasawijayapala5372]

Abraham Lincoln, the original RINO, catered to "wokeness" which led to the War of Northern Aggression. As a result, black people lost the benefit of slavery and everyone became miserable.

[@TNDCBaby]

One hopes it translates to everyday interactions. It means less assuming a lot of shitty things about people and being more aware when it comes to certain interactions. It means less closed doors and more open dialogue and cooperation.

[@eazzii_m5408]

@@TNDCBaby If that's the goal, wokeness is certainly not how we get there. Anyone who has been paying attention to how woke people behave knows the vast majority of them do not welcome dialog from opposing viewpoints. This is why there are many comments on this video commending Marc for inviting this man. This kind of thing just isn't common in the "woke" space.

[@TNDCBaby]

@@eazzii_m5408 That's my view of what can happen. I think some of us are getting too caught up on what we see on tv. "woke" people are the random folks you see everyday and you won't know it until you have a conversation with them about specific topics. The dialogue I'm guessing that you've seen are random shows whose intent is to get high ratings so, yes, they're going to be more combative than average. The topics can also be tied to pain, trauma, and other trigger points that bring out the worst in people because the "other side" can often be someone denying stats, your lived experiences, and at the extreme, your humanity. Wokeness , in its simplest form, is being aware of injustice. That awareness shouldn't stop anyone from wanting to keep working on fixing very obviously flawed and outdated systems.

[@eazzii_m5408]

@@TNDCBaby I have a couple questions for you. What about the "system" is outdated? Why say "woke" instead of injustice if that is the definition of woke? I grew up in the hoods of The Bronx and Brooklyn. The people who did not concern themselves with "woke" culture were the ones who succeeded. The ones who placed much stock into "wokeness" felt too much of the world was against them, so they decided not to even try. The way I see it, the best way to combat injustice is to not pervert it with any other words. Call injustice for what it is, call it on every side and form it comes in. Labeling it "woke" makes injustice inherently exclusive. Not a good thing. If more people were just told "you can succeed" I think we would see much smaller disparities, if at all in the country.

[@angiedues8813]

John McWhorter is a wise man

[@jamesdekloe3522]

This was an excellent discussion. My highest complements to both - I am partial to John McWhorter since I have read him for years on his popularization of Linguistic theories. But the push back from John Hill was measured and logical. This is a model how discussions should be conducted

[@mikevallen999]

John Mcwhorter is a very righteous human being with a very refined intelligence....he would be a wonderful neighbor .

[@NathanLGrossman]

John McWhorter is one of the most insightful public intellectuals in America today.

[@wademitchell3817]

McWhorter needs to stick to literature

[@Black-fi6bg]

I gave this video a thumb up for John McWhorter. That is the only reason.

[@fieryeurochick3194]

It won’t ever be solved! Don’t hate. Just give up. Black people can help themselves. This isn’t on us anymore.

[@bisikuku8376]

Let’s be honest, Marc doesn’t really say much in any rational way. Just many words without any rational substance. John is rather clear thinking and that comes through in his works. Wokeness is as destructive as it can ever be. To me it’s uncontrolled insanity.

[@jausti2]

Lol. Marc is much more academically qualified on this subject than a linguist who gets paid by the Koch brothers to spew racist rhetoric. Lol if you think JMW is knowledgeable on this subject. Have you ever read anything on this subject?

[@bisikuku8376]

@@jausti2 nope, that simply shows your own level nothing more. Race hustlers who think everyone and every human interaction must be reduced to the color of their skin ALL think alike. It’s a shameful way to live and think. Everything leftist is dark and ugly.

[@jausti2]

@@bisikuku8376 dude you have no education on this topic. Ppl like me don’t care what you think. I’m just here to point out that you have an uneducated opinion. You can’t name anything you have read. Now ppl can see what is behind your opinion. Ignorance. Your opinions on me and others aren’t taken seriously by anyone who values education.

[@bisikuku8376]

@@jausti2 typical leftist. Simply pointing out the obvious, the insanity of wokeness, suddenly they are know more. This is simple. Reducing the humanity of another to just color of their skin is madness.

[@kingsleyoji649]

@@jausti2 like JMW said, the over intellectualization of the topic isn't helping it's psychosis lol. A million intellectuals could find racism in the most mundane acts and over generalizations, but which one of them wrote a book on what would actual do something about it. Again like JMW said, if you look at black kids killing each other in high numbers, turn around, and expound on how racism is the cause goo for you. Go ahead and write 20 books about and teach a class. But what is going to get these young men and women exactly what they need? How many PhD's in race studies does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Go ahead and stop counting. Because you'll never have enough. They'll all compete to find the most complex way white supremacy is involved and do nothing, blaming the dark on the white man.

[@sunnyjimtaylor4059]

John McWhorter seems to be one of the few black men (along with Glenn Loury and Coleman Hughes) who can cut through the bull. The media is just hell bent on dividing us. I've been to most continents and the USA is one of the least racist places. Reading some of these comments you would think this is 1821.

[@dontbmadjusbcareful]

Because it is 1821. This country was divided long ago and it wasn't black ppl who did it. Those men are c... and are full of s....

[@Gullah_James_TheCrow]

The USA is the most racist country in the world. I am an indigneous native black American. I lived in Europe for 40 years. There are

[@Gullah_James_TheCrow]

THE DO NOT KILL BLACK AMERICANS IN EUROPE LIKE WHITE AMERICANS. WE ARE NOT GOING TO LET WHITE AMERICANS OFF THE HOOK. I WILL TELL THE STORY LIKE IT IS AND I AM TRULY READY TO DIE FOR WHAT I WROTE. WHITE AMERICANS ARE MORE HOSTILE AGAINST NATIVE INDIGENOUS BLACK AMERICANS & NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS WE HAVE BEEN IN AMERICA/ USA LONGER THAN ANY OTHER NATIONALITY. WE HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO ALL THE WEALTH IN USA MORE THAN ANY GROUP; STARTING WITH THE COTTON FIELDS IN THE SOUTH OF USA. SOUTH CAROLINA, GEORGIA, MISSISSIPPI, ALABAMA, NORTH CAROLINA, VIRGINIA. LOUISIANA. THESE STATE HAVE REALLY STARTED THE ENTIRE USA WEALTH FROM THE BEGINNING. I HAVE SEEN IT MYSELF BECAUSE I AM BORN IN 1962. ANYBODY THAT IS OLDER THAN I AM WILL AGREE WITH ME 100%.

[@KatrinaLoveSmart]

John, thank you for your book! While I’ve never viewed myself as a racist and while I’ve lived in more diverse communities all my life, I’ve been actively working towards being an effective anti-racist for the last four years. It’s been painful to see other friends working to undo racism who are being actively shamed just for being white… as if our skin color makes us inherently bad/wrong and unforgivable, it’s hard to stay in the game of undoing racism. I appreciate all that Mark said here as well. It’s so important not to turn a blind eye to the more complex reasons that these paradoxical “woke” tenets demands of us. I appreciate Mark’s invitation to look deeper at our own motivations - why are we doing what we are doing? And are we willing to look at the bigger systems, acknowledge their reality, so as to effect meaningful change. Great conversation! Just wish it was longer.

[@theblindprogrammer]

Vast majority of Americans, black or white, are good people. Only radicals' voices are heard in the news and media, because controversy is attention, and attention is money in the internet.

[@KatrinaLoveSmart]

@@theblindprogrammer truth!

[@orangemaniabrother2232]

I'm anti racist by not being racist, if I hear someone being racist, and that includes black people, I politely say that's racist, from there they can do what they want, I'm not gonna bombard them or wrestle them to the ground, it wouldn't help things. In the end, going light seems like the only way to do things, if you over think and call racism where it's not or call a harmless reference to race racist then you become pro racist instead

[@TNDCBaby]

"as if our skin color makes us inherently bad/wrong and unforgivable, it’s hard to stay in the game of undoing racism." Why? Why does someone's opinion of you change the want to be a "better" person?

[@KatrinaLoveSmart]

@@TNDCBaby thank you for the question. For me it doesn’t. I’m committed. But that’s me. And, when a person is told repeatedly that no matter what they do, it’s not good enough, and because their skin is white, they are automatically a racist… which is strongly angered in most white communities… it’s similar at to any other form of micro-aggression…. Repeated and painful. If they are told that they are benefiting over BIPoC by having white skin because of systemic racism that favors Whites, and that needs to change, I believe most would be totally in board and agree. If a person is repeatedly told that they are stupid, how long before they believe it and stop trying? If a person is told that their actions are unforgivable, how long before they stop trying to gain forgiveness? If a person is told that it doesn’t matter what they do, they will always be a bad person, how long before they stop trying to meet the standard of their accuser? We are all human. Some people can push through. Some people can endure more and rise up regardless of the opinions of others. Those people are our heroes. They are the ones who inspire us to rise higher. And still, most people who endure regular criticism crumble under the weight of the criticism as it’s easy to take repeated criticism to heart. Any form of validation… something like “you are moving in the right direction, AND I hope to see more.” will support the positive intentions and hard work so many White people are doing a there are many on personal journeys to understand what systemic racism truly is - to see history more clearly through the experience of the majority of Black peoples, indigenous people, Asian people, Latinx people, Arabian people, and more… especially because the experience of individuals dies not necessarily match the experience of the group they most closely identify with, and there are so many people who are bi-racial, or for other reasons don’t fit neatly in any of these broad categories, but still have their own experiences of racism. It’s a lot to learn. And of course deeply humbling with waves of heart break. The White people I know can’t stand the history we’ve been born into and we want to change it. Externalized criticism and judgments can become internalized self-criticism and self-judgments. This shuts down progress rather than supporting it. But I work through those challenges because I can’t stand the idea that our future could mirror our past when it comes to systemic racism and injustices. It’s time for the whole world to change and for caste systems to become a thing that only exists in history books.

[@clayerkwiltee2315]

It's like listening to a man patiently talking to child playing "grown-up".

[@davidantonacci9525]

Which one is which, in your powerful mind?

[@TheRealReVeLaTioN]

I have the same question as David Antonacci. The host is asking questions in a way that many regular people would ask. A certain group of Americans in this country (mostly the ones that don’t understand how Black Americans deserve reparations, just like Jews were given, from the US) still think like children raised by racist parents.

[@SM-hn7sh]

Seems pretty clear that John is the grown up here. Marc is all posturing and virtue signaling without results.

[@peaknonsense2041]

Never going to happen. Marc is a racist pos

[@Mr._Moderate]

@@peaknonsense2041 racist against what kind of people? 🤔

[@blaisetzu]

I agree with John McWhorter. If you watch his back-log of videos on Bloggingheads, this is something he has been analyzing as it has been developing for quite some time. I have been observing these anti-open discourse (anti-free speech) and divisive positions, and various metrics they use to motivate action, for quite some time, independently before I knew of the guy, but he has fearlessly brought even greater insight to the topic. Especially comparing it to a religion because it is a strict lens that everything in the world must be viewed through.

[@SFreije1]

John McWhorter is so much smarter than this disingenuous narrow-minded ideologue it's not a fair debate.

[@The1Question]

Our people need to hear more people like John McWhorter speak. I'm so tired about hearing about the "white racist boogeyman" the past 6 years its getting sickening at this point. I also liked that he basically pointed out the 3 new age "race hustlers"......I'm not sure people like them even want a real solution to the issues because if they can't constantly complain about racism then they won't have a job/position.

[@MrBarnaby23]

Racist boogeyman? Are you saying there is no such thing as racism?

[@The1Question]

@@MrBarnaby23 C'mon, really? Nobody said that. Use your brain man and critical think for a sec, that is the exact replay race hustlers use.

[@dontbmadjusbcareful]

That's exactly what that means. Is a Boogeyman real?

[@dontbmadjusbcareful]

What do you think the real solution is?

[@yawos9024]

No, he is full of it. White supremacy is the underpinning of every white interaction with the non-white world.

[@dustinhecker3986]

I don't often watch Marc Lamont Hill's show but every time I do I am quite impressed. He gives people with an opposing point of view time to explain their views but he pushes back when he doesn't agree and makes them defend their positions. And he is pretty funny.

[@rustyshackleford8497]

John is a national treasure! Read this book several times and "Authentically Black". A true gift to this world

[@JaneyBrown]

Big respect for having John McWhorter on the show. Every one of his answers was excellent. Agree or disagree, but ultimately it's hard to argue with someone whose main mission is to find solutions to the heart of the problem. Fire conversation.

[@chimyshark]

I don't think McWhorter tackles the heart of the problem. I think he evades the heart because he went around it, he's figured out another way that produces better results than fixing the problem would. That's why the woke left cannot understand how he's helping, because they're fixated on that one problem, and not on potential outcomes of other solutions.

[@JaneyBrown]

@@chimyshark Very interesting perspective. I appreciate that. Thanks for sharing.

[@sjdtv2975]

Hill speaks a lot but doesn’t say much. It is refreshing to see a discussion rather than an argument

[@theblindprogrammer]

Agree as well, John sounds like a politician to me here, half advertisement/self-promo, half not commiting to anything

[@dudeseriously57]

The more Marc talks, the more I agree with some of John's points.

[@JG-qt3pn]

Likewise.

[@MaulScarreign]

marc is just flat out stupid. he says so much and at the same time say nothing.

[@GebreMMII]

You’re still a part of the problem.. at least he sounded genuine in his inquiry

[@MaulScarreign]

@@GebreMMII how am I part of the problem because i'm white? what in the fuck kind of world are we living in where you can't realize THAT is a fucking racist thing to say? you people are utterly deluded to think it's perfectly fine to discriminate against white people because of things done by white people in the past. you're all racists. fuck off

[@GebreMMII]

@@MaulScarreign I didn’t say it was bc you’re white..

[@czaleo100fuegos]

Mchorter is ON POINT . Impressive 👏

[@xDonJuanx]

And here's the problem with Hill's argument: "We need the support of white allies...blah, blah, blah." No, we don't. That "support" has done us more harm than good. We need to promote black agency and development. We are capable of self-governance and self-sufficiency. The constant drumbeat of "We can't because the white man...." isn't helpful. We don't need housing policy. We need the economic development that allows us to buy, develop, and live where we want. I'm black. My family and friends are black. We all own houses - sometimes multiple houses. It's not a policy issue.

[@JonDasBoot]

Agreed ... struggling communities need to unify and support each other as best they can. That said, we also need everyone's help (federal/local government, business community, etc.). Isolationism has never helped.

[@TNDCBaby]

Sure you do as white allies tend to still hold power when it comes to, at the very least, making change in writing. We can do chunk of work but it is not a single race solution.

[@JonDasBoot]

How has the civil rights movement done more harm than good? Affirmative action? EEOC? Title VII? I agree that we need to promote agency for all people, but this is also a cultural/education issue. People coming here from Africa and the West Indies make more money on average than white people. Education is the key variable ... not race.

[@Unclejamsarmy]

This is a rejection of the fact that the economic system is artificial, we created it and continue to create it. What you’re saying is “a minority of blsck people have managed to succeed in an economic system designed for most people to lack dignity or security and many to be in utter poverty, so just ignore the game being rigged and play the game better”. Imo you’re close to the answer though - black politics is a mirage because being black is less determinative of your interests than your economic situation. Diddy and jay z and Obama share more interests with klansmen billionaires than they do with the average working class black person. Upper middle class black lawyers and surgeons and car dealership owners have more in common with similarly situated white people than the black poor. In the past when legal outright discrimination and Jim Crow were in effect it made sense to have total racial solidarity. Now the issues are primarily economic. Even in the mass incarceration boom black college grads are no more likely to go to jail than they used to be. But high school and below black men are waaayyy more likely to go to jail than they were pre mass incarceration. It didn’t affect the black rich. Raising wages for all the black women workint minimum wage jobs is actively bad for black people who are upper middle class all the way up to billionaires. Same with universal healthcare, raising social security, anything that would be good for most regular black people is bad or irrelevant to rich black people. There is no shared interest.

[@alfarouqaminufor3892]

@@JonDasBoot affirmative action doesnt help, lowering the standard never helps the individual.

[@funk-the-juice]

To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you're not allowed to criticize. - (Again, this is NOT my quote).

[@tonyhowardpro]

I respect Marc but I don't think he identifies as one of the elect which he is most definitely is. I imagine that there is some sort of "supply and demand" dynamic when it comes to outrage here.

[@theblindprogrammer]

One thing I find it interesting is that most famous black authors always write about race and race issues, even when a black author ventures outside of race like Thomas Sowell, he somehow the issue of race is omnipresent in his work. Why are black authors so insular?

[@25chrishall]

Hill only dodges questions, twists language, and introduces red herrings. A true sophist.

[@jb411000]

The sophist is placed for clarity, if we may so admit.

[@topsecret5110]

I think that's a fair observation from both of you.

[@matthewkeller7291]

Thank you for allowing this discussion. As an American, middle leaning right, whatever that means, it was refreshing. We all need this. Liked and subscribed. Please have more discussions like this. It sure beats the blocked and reported culture up today. God Bless...love to all.

[@DaboooogA]

Can't stand Marc Lamont Hill but respect for bringing John McWhorter on the show!

[@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017]

He's a liar and charlatan.

[@gagestandingready1472]

Marc isn't coming from an honest place, he has a narrative. He missed the plot entirely.

[@tc2333]

I like John McWorters thinking.

[@oceania2385]

Marc may be a thinly veiled neo Marxist, but is one of the few willing to have guest on that can challenge him. I respect that.

[@hanh3000]

Having a civil discussion should be the norm and unfortunately today's atmosphere is of yelling, talking over people and making empty grandstanding to shut people down. In that context , I give Marc great respect.

[@oceania2385]

@@kg356 Hey Kg, what's vulgar Marxism ? Can you tell me ?

[@RLICGNT]

Great dialogue. This man is sharp. Loved his rebuttal... We live drowning ourselves in pointless rhetoric rather than focusing on solutions. Because, I believe, the most effective solution requires taking ownership, however unfair, over our own problems and trudging forward. Not too sexy but definitely noble and effective

[@davidanderson6055]

How could he not agree with what John McWhorter was saying? That's pretty amazing.

[@anthonybryant3038]

Marc, calm down. Slow down. Take a breath.

[@Nick-bh5bk]

Not a huge fan of this channel, but I will give credit due for allowing a constructive and civil dialogue. Well done. I am hitting the recommendation button on this one.

[@hebrewthought9976]

Because you are a white supremacisit that’s why u don’t like it

[@dennisdose5697]

Some here are giving Marc props for having John on... I'm not sure if his motive wasn't to try to discredit John. All he did was make John's point abundantly clear, giving a living example of obsessive woke racism. Marc is so narrowly focused that he has know idea that he is a living parody of the concept he is rejecting. The look of strained patience John has as he asks what the point of keeping white people "on the hook" is is eloquent. Got the feeling that a lot of students who are slow on the uptake get that look and I expect it goes over their heads just as smoothly as it did with this guy. Just been pantsed and had no clue. Brutal Prof McWhorter, but glorious. Thank you.

[@mickiemallorie]

Here's what needs to be said...both can occur simultaneously, with a bigger emphasis on making the black conditions in the US better, and a smaller on calling out racism and demanding change in people

[@jordanthomas4379]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2SXq5uAe66hbsU

[@notthefather3919]

Demanding change in people...good luck with that. You're part of the obsessed McWhorter is talking about.

[@chloebenjamin5599]

Can we do both? I think racism needs to be called out while also focus on improving the lives of black people.

[@bradandrews3936]

“They’re making me take a break.” “They’re making me wrap.”

[@michelep6300]

That's a recurring theme in his interviews with contrarian guests. Always gotta shut the conversation off when the other guy starts making sense. I appreciate that MLH is one of the few liberal hosts that will actually invite a more heterodox guest, but that 'they're making me take a break' routine is getting pretty old for me. So transparent.

[@vvwalker7261]

"Black News" sounds like something out of a comedy skit

[@JoshuaJWatkins]

Insightful and much needed dialogue!

[@BJSal916]

The interviewer victim Marc helped prove the author John's point and the whole reason why the book is needed for all people. If you constantly say I'm a victim and demand "help" then at what point will there be any change if your not ready to look in the mirror and help yourself with solutions

[@CaptainLightning1]

Woke antiracism is actually paternalism.

[@danepaulstewart8464]

WOW! McWharter absolutely flattened every point because he’s understanding it all better. He’s clearly a really smart man. I hope people listen to him.

[@suigeneris2663]

That “mmm hmmm.” I’m ded. 🤣💀

[@cinrok1]

This host stutters and stumbles a lot when he’s challenged. It really makes him look opinionated and emotional

[@boxerpop82]

Much respect to Marc for bringing him on the show

[@travisschwarzkopf5577]

Also ... if anyone could define "whiteness" and "blackness" for me without sounding insane or racist I'd love to see it.

[@NfiniteRage]

I'm a black guy and a conservative who abandoned the left so I can only provide what blackness is from a mind state that I also abandoned. When people say blackness what they usually mean is a mind state that is compromised of Afrocentric perspective. It's a world view that sees everything through the lense of race. For a black person in America when one sees everything through the lense of race they often think that their own progression is limited by systemic racism and a system of white supremacy. John is saying that racism is not as conclusive to black success as it has been in the past. It's not to say we're past racism societally but we are placing too much focus on it. I myself agree with this wholeheartedly. I think black people need to stop focusing on a race and racism and individual goals and aspirations and move forward. They may navigate this world and experience racism but racism these days are usually that person's problem and we take it personal and make our problem. Also what I find interesting is that this so called anti racist movement is contradictory in many of their methods. They often combat racism with their own racism. Their message is hypocritical which is why I abandoned that way of thinking.

[@silent_shout]

I don't know Marc's daily experience, but I live in San Francisco and I was at a bar where some approached me and we started talking about a psychology book on symbolism, that, to my knowledge made no reference to race, racism, or blackness (Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious was the title). A black man was drinking alone in a corner and he became incensed at the conversation and went on a tyrade how I was a "liar" and was using psychology to cover up that people with white skin were evil. The point is that this person has been deceived by black activists (including white people as "black activists here), particularly strong in the Bay Area I should mention, and essentially they have short-circuited his brain to where even innocent conversations are modes of persecution. To take it a step further, this man will not go on to own a car dealership. He's not going to get cutting-edge papers written in academia. He won't discover something, or create a beautiful work of art. His own delusions are stunting him mentally, and I don't blame him for drinking alone in the corner of a bar when you've essentially been psychologically destroyed by a bunch of activists making bogus promises attached to fake claims. It doesn't matter if it's white liberals or this new wave of anti-racist black people: this kind of thinking is exacting a huge price on people in the black community.

[@bdwoods08]

@BNC News - Can you organize a round table of Black Voices like Marc Lamont Hill, Ibram Kendi, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Nikole Hannah-Jones, Glen Loury, Michael Eric Dyson, and I am sure there are more you all can think of to discuss this topic and more? I love watching you all model the way conversations should happen when everyone agrees and even more important when people disagree. This is refreshing to see. Thank you.