Do you need BIGGER cartridges?

[@gnarshread]

Absolutely love the technical information.

[@carlrendell3521]

I thought. The biggest shot size at clays where 7s

[@Grant_901]

Great lesson on shot size. Thanks for sharing

[@jimhooley3846]

It is always interesting to see how empirical data compares to scientific analysis and theory. Oberfall and Thompson in their seminal work "The mysteries of shotgun Patterns" determined that for every 5 yards, shotgun pattern densities diminish by about 10%. A 70% pattern at 40yds would be a 30%pattern at 60yds. This concurs with my own pattern testing. Yes, you can break targets at 60 and 70 yds, but can you insure 95-100% certainty? This begs the question of how far is too far in a championship tournament? When does the element of luck or chance, introduced as distance increases, supplant skill in determining the outcome?

[@tgsoutdoors]

It’s a great question! Target setters do tend to keep things within 60m (which is a very long way when you see a clay out there!) I guess this distance is where skill meets the right equipment. I’d say a 60m target showing face would break nearly every time you put the shot cloud on it. As we saw here, it’s when it gets edgy that luck starts to be more of a factor at range.

[@mannygiapitzakis7778]

The science would not be difficult to determine, particularly from a patterning (minimum pattern density) point of view. Simply calculate the cross section area of a standard edge-on (worse case scenario) target and divide this figure into the cross sectional area of a 30-inch circle. Using this figure, multiply it by whatever number of pellet strikes you feel are required to break that target (ie. 1, 2,, 3, etc) at any given distance. This will finally determine your minimum pellet strike requirement in a 30 inch circle to ensure consistent breaks.

[@Eric_360]

The Jonthorne is back in action.... Or is this the last time we'll ever see it? LOL

[@tgsoutdoors]

This was filming last July, nice to see it back on screen. Very pretty thing.

[@borisfargo1290]

Good game load too in fibre 28/6.5

[@chipworrell6025]

Here in the Carolinas, i've never been on a course that allows larger than 7 1/2 shot rarely more than 1300 FPS. WE have to choke tighter to get more pellets on the long targets.

[@tonesw6957]

Us too in Canada

[@benjaminwilley3578]

For most of us, if your on em, your on em. Many moons ago, Sellier & Bellot 32g 6.5 with a plaswaad in a paper case was my go too. For game and clay, because it was all i could afford. Always intresting videos.

[@desertratsss]

At my grounds, 7 1/2 is the largest allowed.

[@karlsailor]

US and UK shot sizes are different. US #8 = UK #7 US #7 1/2 = UK #6 1/2

[@drumhd1]

@@karlsailor Thank you. I’m a Yank and that was the question I was about to ask!

[@tgsoutdoors]

Thanks Karl! Would be easier if we used a nominal diameter measurement instead - would sort out international shot size translation…

[@mannygiapitzakis7778]

Incorrect. Uk 6.5 = US 7 (2.5mm, 0.100”) UK 7 = US 7.5 (2.4mm, 0.095”) UK 7.5 = US 8 (2.3mm, 0.090”)

[@martinsatchell]

Yet again so informative and very interesting well done

[@Ben-mh4pj]

Very interesting video once again Johnny well done. Just for the hell of it why don’t you replace the 6.5’s with some nickel or copper plated 4’s and see what that does to a long range target. I think you’ll be amazed what that pellet size will do to a clay down range. Just for the fun and research. I’d never advocate doing that in competition of course!! 😁😁

[@russhumphries7283]

One wouldn't think that a clay at and a shot string at would not make much difference if the clay was coming towards or away from you. I could do the math but I'm feeling lazy ... lol. However there is nothin like the proof of the pudding. Today at Southdown I practiced on a 60 ish yard midi crosser off the tower - comparing breaks with my standard 3/8 choke and 8's with 6.5 and then again tightening up to 3/4's with the same cartridges (Eley Superb 8's and the same Hull 6.5) Overall I had more breaks with 3/8 and the larger pellet and the breaks were more obvious. This is a testiment to my skill levels over the cartridges - at least that's my suspicion. I'm not goo enough to centre them but edge the 6.5 will break better than edgy 8s. This makes sense. Thusly, I shall stick to 3/8 in both barrels and carry some of the boomers for longish stuff. Great video as ever. For clarity I'm a 70's x 100 shooter using a K80 with those chokes. Being a geek I love the theory side. More of this please sir :) Being a countryman I also think that for actual pigeons 6's rock :)

[@royjennison3916]

GREAT vid well done , could you do a test on 28in ,30in,32in barrels to see if there is any difference in patten and much difference in speed , we all know the shorter barrels will have a little less muzzle velocity but how much .

[@RobertSmith-qs8yl]

insignificant amount, little round balls are very inefficient projectiles with poor ballistic coefficients, so for the same size small shot regardless of muzzle velocity by the time the shot has travelled around 30yards it will all be traveling at virtually the same terminal velocity give or take just a few feet per second. For the faster the muzzle velocity the quicker the shot slows down simple as that, no arguing with the laws of physics.

[@spencerford2608]

Thats interesting, I thought British 6.5 was equivalent to American 7.5 but those pellets are clearly much larger than our 7.5.

[@AdamsClayShootingGuide]

0.5 difference. A US or Euro 8, is a UK 7.5

[@ddoherty5956]

Laport break in the box fairly easily though.

[@ronaldjohnson1474]

Great information. Thanks.

[@markchapman2414]

They certainly break the bank

[@dandylion1987]

Yes. 50 Grams of #0 shot is ideal for skeet.

[@tgsoutdoors]

Don’t be a baby - 63gr or nothing

[@dandylion1987]

@@tgsoutdoors 😟

[@joegraziano5849]

You convinced me. I’m going to buy some 6.5 Sovereigns

[@tgsoutdoors]

They are the best thing since sliced bread, the price tag is top end but the result is too when needed

[@John-uo1qf]

Size matters!

[@mannygiapitzakis7778]

I’m not yet convinced on the use of UK #6.5, particularly given its greatly reduced in-shell pellet count in lighter loads and the need of much tighter choke constrictions to make them work. In my view, shotgunning has always been about compromise and finding that optimal balance of pattern density and pellet energy. I find that a 28g load of UK #7.5 (US #8) will cover most target presentations today and that the same load weight in a UK #7 (US #7.5) will adequately cover the longer stuff.

[@jeffreese4194]

I like 3/4 choke for my dove hunting. I think many people are too open.

[@smksg42]

Trap I hit best with 36g 6. Using smaller shot does not make sense on 35m+ ranges, the small pellets make only sense on short range. 6 Is quite a good size vis amount of pellets. (especially on eco clays, they are nasty when they was long out of the box, these get soft again).

[@tgsoutdoors]

Sounds like a Helice shell!

[@beeboop1726]

3/4 is IM. Think of it was FULL = 4/4, IM = 3/4, M = 1/2, IC = 1/4.

[@BrokenBarBox]

Thank you! As an American it can be hard to understand the meaning sometimes. Like when they discuss the cartridges in terms of grams, I don’t know what they’re talking about.

[@beeboop1726]

@@BrokenBarBox funny enough I never really know what the Americans are talking about when they mention ounce loads. As a rough guide a 1 ounce load is 30grams of shot. My go to game loads are 30grams 6 shot.

[@BrokenBarBox]

@@beeboop1726 now it’s all making sense. Thank you! When I’m hunting Jack rabbits with a 20 gauge I use one ounce of #6, and for pheasant a 12 gauge with 1-1/4 ounce load of 5 or 6 shot

[@budzo100]

Another question to be asked. Is the UK shot, lead? Or steel? I have heard that some course's are moving to Steel shot, which will have a difference in shot performance. Size and steel/lead shot differences are a very real difference. Jonny, what are you using? Steel or lead?

[@AdamsClayShootingGuide]

We are still lead. The difference is negligible. I recently tried steel cartridges on a looper that would be considered a hard target and the steel broke it no problem at all.

[@ghillie35]

Do hull do the sovereign 6.5 in fibre

[@borisfargo1290]

Yes now they do

[@ghillie35]

@@borisfargo1290 how come I haven’t seen them In the gun shops I dot. Want to look daft asking for them

[@borisfargo1290]

@@ghillie35 I don’t know, ask them to get you them in if they stock Hull.

[@ghillie35]

@@borisfargo1290 they do stock hull

[@tgsoutdoors]

They discontinued them for a few years, but they came back into production last year. My favourite fibre wad shell

[@brianoneill6718]

which lens is he wearing?

[@manning421]

Is this what was used in the Olympic skeet?

[@dylanredmond759]

Olympic skeet is shot using 9 shot

[@SkeetsPaintball]

9 Shot and 24g

[@maximilianmustermann5763]

@@SkeetsPaintball The ISSF rules say you can use up to 24 gram (0.5 g tolerance) shot with a maximum pellet diameter of 2.6 mm. What is usually sold in Germany as (ISSF) "skeet shot" is 2.0 mm 24 grams. What is sold as (ISSF) "trap shot" is usually 2.4 mm 24 grams. Those seem to be the most popular inside the ISSF trap/skeet world.

[@SkeetsPaintball]

@@maximilianmustermann5763 Yes 2.0mm is #9 Shot in the UK and is what people generally use for all Skeet varieties. 2.4mm is UK #7 Shot, which I understand trap shooters would use. I don't shoot Trap, or Skeet anymore. Mainly shoot sporting/compak/FITASC

[@batmantiss]

I love a heavier load, because DUST DON'T COUNT!

[@bryanfaustino3819]

Who made the stock on the 694? I like the grip

[@tgsoutdoors]

I think it started life as a factory stock

[@JanePurnell]

the technical part of the game..............the expensive part of the game!

[@ddoherty5956]

I need cheaper ones Jonny 😢

[@SkeetsPaintball]

Fiocchi F3 Red, are a UK 7, so not quite as big as a 6.5, but they do hit hard and are cost effective.

[@ddoherty5956]

@@SkeetsPaintball cheers 👍

[@mikeygti8930]

Have you tried Hull Superfast? 27g 7.5, 1500fps. Pay 74 quid in my local supplier

[@RobertSmith-qs8yl]

would like to see the video repeated again but with steel shot and biodegradable wads. 😊

[@TheMoodyedge]

no

[@wholeNwon]

Were you using biodegradable targets? Seems a shame to litter that beautiful land with shards of fired clay that will last much longer and be toxic, too.

[@ronaldjohnson1474]

What part of "clay" don't you understand?

[@RobertSmith-qs8yl]

your forgetting the non biodegradable plastic wads as shown on the video which will be on the ground for hundreds of years the clays degrade in months if not weeks.

[@AdamsClayShootingGuide]

Grounds clear up clays and wads regularly, otherwise they would be in a right mess.

[@wholeNwon]

@@RobertSmith-qs8yl I think only the biodegradable ones do and they can take a long time.

[@wholeNwon]

@@ronaldjohnson1474 Oh, I think I have a pretty good idea.