Age of Sigmar 4: Sylvaneth Faction Pack 2024 - Full Review

[@JesseDiMauro]

*removes Sylvaneth hat* *puts on Kruleboyz hat*

[@Mensch777]

"That's what the Lady of Vines is for" - the faction

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

The faction

[@afk1sec410]

280 points, not even usable at the cost for 8 wounds.

[@Dom-pu5hj]

Until she gets sniped or monster-gibbed and you can't bring her back 😢

[@Never_heart]

I feel bad for Sylvaneth players. Even if the points and warscrolls get cleaned up in the full tomb. Just the irl cost of all that terrain is brutal

[@gammafighter]

You only have to put down one piece, so you only need one box of terrain.

[@Never_heart]

@@gammafighter You only need 1 piece. But so much of the faction's mechanics are tied to them, that you will need something to proxy them to have much hope of winning

[@marlonmounce8313]

Cannot wait for the final tier list. These videos are getting me hyped for so many factions

[@Pshyconumber13]

Feels like we got nerfed because we did so well last edtion. Ohh wait 😢

[@sheaparkersp]

Gotta pay for that 47% win rate

[@schala99]

Sylvaneth is my only army and I feel really disappointed. I feel like moving back to 9” bubbles would have at least given us a bit more strength, as well as being able to cast trees on the objective, since that would at least open up some very tactical use of trees as stopping points. Instead, it feels like we’re deeply tied to trees, and will be reliant on the opponent destroying our trees in order for us to move and use our full healing ability. I can actually envision scenarios where I’m attacking my own trees in order to be able to plant new ones. Also, the fact dryads don’t get their abilities near Lady of the Vines means I have no idea when I would actually use them now. Honestly, with no auto-tree abilities, this is a really unreliable army and it seems like we are just super conditional in a way that feels weak compared to other armies. Taking away treelord teleports also really stripped our mobility and I think our ability to use trees to deepstrike as well. Besides trying to sell us more Gossamids, I’m not sure what they actually did for us. Kurnoth having 4+ armor saves and still costing 200+ points is really rough when you compare them to Spiteriders. I’m just not sure how we’re supposed to get this army into combat without Belthanos, and idk how we’re supposed to get it to survive without Lady of the Vines casts or Tree casts. Well, I guess we just gotta play those tournaments, show off our dismal win rates and go from there.

[@sashashadowhive6128]

Sylvaneth is not my original main faction, but it is def one of my favorites and I have quite a collection. Personally I read the rules and thought they looked fine. The entire powerscale of 4th edition seems to be lower than 3rd (every faction is "Weaker") and I feel like the wyldwoods aren't as much of a problem as people make them out to be. 3 wyldwoods is enough to cap 3 objectives very well. If you place them at the 3" distance mark, the objective is well within the reach of most abilities (6") that use wyldwoods. I think having permanent defenses at 3 objectives at no unit cost, with the ability to Teleport between them is pretty dope! Of course, it remains to be seen how easy this actually is. But I definitely prefer to stay positive untill I get to try it! I find that going in with the idea that its gonna be fun, will make it easier to enjoy your army. If you go in with the idea "This is gonna suck" you are more likely to focuss on the negatives and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[@Dom-pu5hj]

After several games, keeping woods on the table or spending 2-3 casts to get them out to begin with is really rough. And even if I don't fail a roll, or get unbound, getting meaningful placement past round 1 is really difficult.

[@Mithlinthar]

I'm not trying to be THAT GUY, but as a Sylvaneth player...well... I'm not that impressed with the rules... :( There are some nice twists in this army, but it feels quite opressive with the woods and everything related to woods. Yep, opressive for the owner. I hope for the interesting Army of The Renown rules.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I have mirrored those feelings while trying to stay up beat!

[@matthewkuney5241]

I can't help but feel a lot of armies kinda got the axe. I also play Seraphon and they also got some heavy changes that I'm trying not to be salty about

[@stoickes]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams being upbeat matters! I’m glad you’re keeping positive because it kinda help take the sting out of

[@stephanedwards7196]

Try being a ko or lumineth player...

[@Healadin]

@@matthewkuney5241 Same here, man :( I can see some positive things here and over at Seraphon's, but this is just gutting me while I had so much fun playing it lately. Not sure what to main now

[@robertohollas2099]

I really like how you don't compare how units and abilities used to be in previous editions. Saves 3 hours, but it speaks to your quality content. From one Rob to another, well done!

[@Ceehill561]

Thanks as always for the coverage, been looking forward to Sylvaneth. Keeping my hopes up since I love the faction. I was considering running the Arch-Revenant to buff up some scythe Kurnoths, and at a glance Spellsinger looks great for them so you can get more value from your points without having to put a hero that squishy into combat. Could potentially use it to cast manifestations deeper on the field while your other wizards handle summoning trees, although there's definitely an argument here that it's throwing good money after bad. The big thing I'm worried about is wanting 4-5 heroes and suffering on drops as a result, but that's probably a me problem

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Let me know how it goes

[@joseignaciobasciani8159]

Yeeeeaaaaaa!!!! Lets do this!!!!

[@jacklyons2088]

feels like the sylvaneth have been nerfed for this edition, and they were bang in the middle in terms of win rates last edition

[@NegativeNezzy]

By in the middle you mean the absolute bottom?

[@envaya9838]

they had the lowest or 2nd lowest winrate towards the end, my friend

[@Dom-pu5hj]

2nd lowest... And it was an incredibly techy faction to play. I don't know if I have it in me to bring trees to a 4.0 tournament with their rules as is... I feel like stepping on a rake repeatedly would be less masochistic.

[@woofergranade2044]

The Kurnoth specifically don’t get the additional rend I think.

[@davidkey4272]

I think they will be fine. The damage output across the game has been nerfed. They lost a bit of the “you don’t get to hit me at all” for a lot more resilience with the healing. Remember, healing sucks when the damage is really high across the board, but that’s not the case now. Now you just avoid/alpha the rarer super hammer units, and heal through the much lower damage average units.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Good insight

[@Dom-pu5hj]

Works for non-competitive games. Competitively, factions are going to jam in their most consistent damage dealers and Sylvaneth has nothing for that. Ward save nerfs for key pieces, on top of their already low wound count army (since they're so "elite") and poor saves (hunters didn't need a save nerf without a price reduction) means you're gonna have a bad time competitively... But I mean, that was the story for Sylvaneth in 3.0 too, 2nd from the bottom... Can it get worse?... Feels like it.

[@davidkey4272]

@@Dom-pu5hjI only play competitively. They are fine. It’s also not addressed here but with some games under the belt, you can consistently drop 12 health roadblocks everywhere on top of the manifestation roadblocks. They can take any faction. It’s just different than before

[@wrantheim6777]

Wow. I haven't looked at any other faction yet but I feel laughed at. Especially the Warsong Revenant seems being clowned on. Basically forcing him more into the front and worsening his Ward and movement at the same time. Taking away his cast roll bonus and cutting the damage potential of Swarm of Spites in half (guessed, not calculated). Not to mention that you'll need about twice as much Wyldwood as you needed before to do anything.

[@NexUtInfinitus]

Robbb!!! You stole our hearts you handsome thief you.

[@Adclif]

Honestly I'll be playing Evergreen Hunt until they adjust some rules on AWW and drop points.

[@manuelsturm858]

Nice, yesterday StD and today Sylvaneth, my army’s are covered! :) And tomorrow my new maybe army DoT? 🙏

[@davidkey4272]

Rob on a $5mil contract from the Lady of Vines Foundation

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I've got shares

[@C.Satyr001]

Another interesting thing could be to power through to put yourself within 6" of a wildwood post combat l. This would let you teleport out and or take advantage of healing. If you don't teleport and they charge you, well then you are in range of the wildwood

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Really clever

[@henryplitt2360]

The new update looks like it’ll help the faction quite a bit!

[@jsjjakobslothjensen]

Damn, that's rough, they did my spiteswarm real dirty... I think we can make some viable competative matches (alarielle with 15 lancers)... I would have like that the positive effects are just within 3" like most of the damage effects... This would make it easier to play with and against... Really looking forward to some reviews from people playing them. Hard to see the ambush pattern in this playstyle.

[@TuneL0wDieSl0w]

This army still look like so much fun flavour wise so I’ll probably still make it as my second army but it’s a bummer to see everyone talking about it was nerfed pretty heavily after already being middle of the pack in 3rd edition. Thank you for the video, just recently got into AoS and these videos are very helpful✨

[@cameronthompson1943]

One of the worst aspects is having my units next to targetable trees. My opponents often fail their charge going into my units and go "oh look at that i'm in range of these trees though"... charges the trees then piles in 3" to my units. Bam failed charge now successful.

[@joet9459]

Rob, @23:51 when you're talking about the Vengeful Skullroot, wouldn't the End of Turn ability be permanent since it doesn't say until end of turn or until your next start of turn? so you could keep stacking minus control score every end of turn

[@Chuggernaut47]

This may be a dumb question, does Belthanos affect other factions terrain?

[@anokosecret9963]

Sylvaneth were my first love in AoS and the traits/artefacts have left me very very okay at best. They sure exist?

[@todfthr]

That Lady of Vines is doing a lot of heavy lifting for this army.

[@Andaah]

She's an 8 wound monster so will be shot off easily

[@envaya9838]

with 8 wounds and monster keyword she is doing a lot of being lifted from the game

[@Dom-pu5hj]

And the fact that you can't bring her back with Alarielle is stupid. That felt like a twist of the knife when I realized that...

[@JohnnyTightIips]

Watching this AND the twitch vod because I wanna see how diplomatic Rob had to be after reading these rules haha

[@FionaAnstian]

This sounds like an army built for shenanigans, and everything sounded like a lot of fun except the unfortunate profiles of those big trees. I am only getting into AoS this edition, but if I read a 40k army like this I'd say it was one I'd have to see reps of to really call how it'll perform.

[@pbodyjel87]

Does lady of the vines have to ability to teleport anywhere through strike and fade and walk the hidden paths since she as counted as an AWW? since when she is set up she is within 6 inches of herself?? Or just other units can?? I am not clear on that. Thanks in advance for any advice or input.

[@TheTrueLeafless]

Belthanos is just as mandatory as the Lady of Vines. Suplex Master and an AWW that is (almost) unremovable

[@vincenteveleigh558]

what's your opinion on the twistweald units being 130 points for 8 models? their damage seems to be crazy good compared to every single other non hero unit for their point value, and they can even get buffed by drycha. they get something like 30 attacks without needing to be reinforced (not that they can be anyways)

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

i think an oversight they will soon correct

[@Dom-pu5hj]

Yeah, Sylvaneth aren't allowed to have good things 😂😭

[@piffling2238]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams If you want to talk oversight with the twistweald, due to how the order of operations are in AoS 4 they can't use their ability to lower the opponents charge rolls until after the opponent has already done their charges.

[@brucesolomon1514]

Couldn't think of a better way to pass some time at work. Can't wait to do this army I've had banked in my pile of potential.

[@gnaleinad]

Interesting. Archaon needs to be shielded from a Gladewyrm lock. LOL

[@Temeraire99]

The hero trait that allows ignoring prayer and spell is just once per successful cast of both spell and prayer, right? So its not like e.g. enemy tries to use 3 spells in his turn and you can try to use this hero trait on each successful cast, you can just use it on 1 of those?

[@CarbonMage]

You could use it 3 times in that case, though it's specific to spells targeting the hero with the trait

[@Pootleflump]

Trees just seem too expensive. Without the teleporting they had, they're far too slow and just not as good. I'll give it a go but I think it's bugs for me in 4e.

[@EidolonAbove]

*weeps in sylvaneth*

[@gammafighter]

Lady of Vines suddenly became so relevant. But man, they really massacred Drycha. Going from 3/3 with Crit Mortals to 4/4 with no mortals completely neutered her. They kept all the hoops you have to jump through but now there's no payoff, lol. Unless people come up with something really clever, Sylvaneth might have a sub 30% win rate.

[@nastybadger]

LOL the 3 way Dock ❤

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Hahaha

[@djounthefirst7374]

When you set up 3 trees, would the area in the middle also be unstable, or would it just be the trunks? I’m I the only one that finds this a bit ambiguous ? 😅

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

only the physical terrain

[@djounthefirst7374]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams awesome, thanks!!

[@pirnus3476]

1:01:17 is it in the enemy unit or the Kurnoth unit for the « trample underfoots »

[@joehill6916]

Crown of Dane Bowers more like.

[@TheGeppywizard]

Trying not to be disappointed...

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

It's fair to feel it. We are all passionate

[@getorix1]

I love sylvaneth, kurnoth hunters, durthu, belthanos are basically perfect in my view but except for belthanos they just feel a bit flat on first read. Think I'll focus on other armies for now.

[@JustAdam3D]

Hilarious that the Lady of Vines went from “why would you take her” to “why WOULDN’T you take her”

[@miguSelles]

8 wounds on a monster that can be shot from anywhere for 280 doesnt feel like an autoinclude

[@butcherbird4195]

Yeah 8 wounds fucking sucks

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Being a monster with 8 wounds sucks

[@JustAdam3D]

Yeah the health is worse but without overgrown terrain and the 6+ from Burgeoning her being a mobile wyldwood with a 5+ ward spell seems a lot more important than it did in 3rd? 280 points *is* a lot though for sure, idk, I’m not planning on taking them seriously this edition I’m just gonna play stupid lists

[@PatrickCarter-t3h]

I feel like with the syls book you have to build around the top 3 heroes.(belthanos, allierelle or lady of vines) it will create 3 very different army choices that will allow you to succeed. Syls has never been about there heroes wholesale despite what the meta keeps producing and this book is no different. Min, maxing is also a bad idea in 4th in my opinion as well so yes your most likely going to want to reinforce most of your units(yes even tree revs) i also feel like the trees arent anchor points anymore rather than extra movement pieces. Syls will be the same as k.o with most of their cp going into movement shenanigans rather than straight dmg vs saves to keep em alive. Could be wrong tho 😅

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Interesting read. Thanks

[@capt.mannerings8095]

Super hyped to play sylvaneth but ngl it's looking a bit rough. There are some good units and things but not enough. It looks like they started out with a higher damage output then got pared down too much and I don't think they will be able to have the output to sustainably fight on objectives. Also alot of the tricks we had got toned down too much imo. But hey it's all good, hope the book will bring them back up a bit. Awesome video as always.

[@Tobben121]

Honestly I don't think GW have a clue about how they want syl to function. Yes I understand and agree that the current strike and fade/hit and run strat of syl is sometimes unfun to play against. But I am not sure if this index version is it. Sylvaneth has an identity crysis of wanting to both protect their own territory/trees aswell as alpha strike the enemy or project their power outwards. Now they can effectivly do neither, if they can even get more than a single wood out at all

[@shazzy544]

Ill tell you what sucks about Sylvaneth, is you need to buy 3 of your faction terrain to run a proper list. You gotta drop £120 on straight terrain, kinda sucks as somebody who wants to start.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I agree

[@blkice6063]

Can you use the STRIKE AND FADE ability on The Lady of Vines? can i teleport to her use a Awakened wyldwood.

[@dimitrihenry5183]

about your remark at 54:28 speaking for the range of the wood yeah it could be cool if only you didn't have the 3inch restriction of ennemy terrain AND objectif. You are playing against a player with a teleportation ability in Hero phase ? if he has the priority he will teleport his unit on the objectif and you will be done he just need to put 1 model to puch out all your buble of invocation for the wood and while this model will be in 6inch of the wood the unit will not be totaly within.... and if you put your terrain and charge him well yiy will not have your maximum damage output if you went to keep the 6inch for your bonus. The army is dead. 110point for 10 dryades when other army paid the same for unit a lot better. I saw a lot (really a lot ) army having spell to teleport their unit or warscroll rules. When it's our army rules with restriction and only once or twice per turn. I played three games against friends yeah alarielle is cool but she is the only model really good in the army at the moment. Idoneth/Dok or even skaven can do a lot more than us xD

[@pierrehalter9345]

Hello everybody, I am just starting AOS with this V4 and I just bought Sylvaneth vanguard. What do you think for my next purchase for a 2000 points army ?

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Allerielle or belthanos

[@dirkv6069]

Slaves to darkness vanguard...🎉

[@pierrehalter9345]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams Which weapons are the best for my first kurnoth hunters ? Do you think 6 bow kurnoth are worth it ?

[@flameknightdragon]

@@pierrehalter9345 bows seem to be the only ones worth taking from the battle reports i have seen.

[@Erishkigal84]

yay!!!!

[@Very_Unwise]

Lessgooo

[@jonpeacock5580]

Sorry i can't help you feel up beat. This army feels really pillow Foster with bad survivability and everything requiring the big trees to do literally anything

[@JohnnyilRosso]

Guys for the Army of Renown of Belthanos do you prefer 2 units of spiterider lancers, 2 units of seekers or 1 and 1 :D??

[@markysmoves]

I can't help but feel that Sylvaneth have been gutted. The fact the range for AW damage/buffs is 3"/6" means we cannot pressure the board, least we lose our buffs etc. Additionally, Belthanos losing his 5+ ward means he cannot be the aggressor we need him to be. Kurnoths being more points that immortis gaurd and having worse save and damage output and no ward is just a slap in the face. Super dissapointed with this, was so hyped after seeing all the other armies revealed.

[@Pootleflump]

On top of that the range of shooting hugely reduced so if you sit under a tree, you probably can't shoot anything either

[@woofergranade2044]

This made me sad. Lost range and survivability. 😢

[@Healadin]

I feel the same. I don't understand the range decrease on AW from 9" to 6" for teleports or strike and fade. It's already hard to be wholly in range of 9", at least in my experience, that having to do the same wholly within 6" just feels impossible to do. Especially with any reinforced unit... "+1 rend wholly within 6" of an AW"... great for Kurnoth with scythes that are standing on an objective with an AW next to them. But do you really want to park 200 or 400 pnt on an objective like that?

[@nekowarlock9329]

we know the point values already?

[@woofergranade2044]

@@nekowarlock9329 yup Yesterday’s article

[@danielarmstrong3192]

Disappointed with the lack of punch, also thought Drycha would have had more.

[@Harem__King]

Lets talk about skaven 😊

[@Coolduff.]

Sylvaneth seem janky as hell this edition.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Pretty janky

[@BloodKraven]

Yikes they really didn’t come out swinging in this edition

[@adamredmond3136]

Thanks for another great review Rob 😀 Feels like a let down from GW sadly. Too underpowered, especially elite pieces & Treelords and have lost too much character & flavour with the old glades & seasons rules gone. Such a shame 😢

[@TrebleAmp]

Good job this army is pretty too look at!

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Exactly!!

[@georgesutherlandhoward4417]

All the unnecessary rube goldberg mechanics dialed up to 11, with none of the quality of life changes present in 3rd ed. I'm not even concerned about power level and win rates - this just doesn't look fun. It says a lot that I'm hoping the Evergreen Hunt is good because it allows me to ignore most of these rules. Well, thanks for streaming it, Rob. I hope you got some rest afterwards!

[@piffling2238]

I feel the Twistwield is emblematic of the core problems of this faction pack. You have to jump through so many hoops to get your effects that are easily done by anyone else. This is really looking to be the worst pack.

[@salsathe4th]

And Sylvaneth became the least played army in 4th.

[@C.Satyr001]

I think the wildwoods are better than people are thinking. They are pretty easy to get on the board giving its a cheap unlimited spell, your opponent then has to ignore it (which gives you Teleport and healing stations) or they charge them which is soaking damage and if they then dont clear it in one go, gives you the ability to hurt them and fight them within 6". I think it will play better than people let on.

[@envaya9838]

The book oozes of nerfs and even just generally obstacles to play the army. Not only is this army probably going to have a terrible winrate (I could live with that), but it will be veery clunky and annoying to play

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Hope you are right and it works out

[@woofergranade2044]

Where is the +1 to rend coming from again? I don’t see one that gives the bonus to either Kurnoth or the cavalry units given that the subfaction says non Kurnoth infantry units. So has to be infantry and not Kurnoth right?

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

The spell?

[@woofergranade2044]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams ohhhhhh! You right. I completely blanked on that.

[@johannes7377]

My only army and I loved the playstyle in 3rd, but ist is just sad. Not even weak or whatever, but more importantly all the flavor is taken out and the whole thing reads super boring, unimaginative and extremely conditional. Does not sound fun to play at all.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

There's no flavour

[@vinvenal4243]

I dont wanna play a faction thats tied into a terrain piece. Thats no fun. Most people are into collecting and painting lil guys, not mandatory scenery. Worst thing GW ever came up with, feels like desperate efforts to sell cheaply made scenery kits with high margins.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I think that's super fair

[@Andaah]

Its all too expensove after seeing the points. So many points of failure and stipulatuons for us to just have what other factions have. By Robs estimate Durthu us 80pts too expensive and a Treelord 110 too overcosted. I have zero interest in playing my only army

[@envaya9838]

same, and I dont feel like giving GW hundred of bugs for a new army

[@Marhathor]

Chin up, Rob. Whereas everyone else's points are going up, Sylvaneth's points go down. Endless spells may not be the best, but you still have amazing generic options. I honestly reckon a lot of the heroes are looking really good, keeping points in mind, as well as ranged units. The ability to get your ranged bois out of dodge at the end of every turn is nice for them as well. They're also not too concerned about the reduced Wyldwood ranges. I think you're gonna have a great time going first, setting up some trees onto the objectives and harassing anything that comes near them. Durthu's damage output is largely similar to what it was. The sword deals more than it used to, even without the +1 attack on the warscroll (but ignoring Greenwood Gladius) and you actually deal a larger total amount of damage vs monsters, which might just play a huge role in this "centrepiece" edition. Not to mention it no longer goes down on a damage table to practically nothing. A Spirit of Durthu with 9 damage allocated still hits just as hard as 3rd edition Durthu, minus Greenwood Gladius, where in 3rd, the damage would go down to D3, a third of its unwounded output. 11+ wounds 1 damage was absolutely sad to see in 3rd, as I spiked with 6+ save Fell Bats and he did nothing back. In 4th, he's gonna hit hard even in that scenario. And he's 10 points cheaper, whereas, again, most other heroes are more expensive. I honestly think he's buffed. What it comes down to is this: Sylvaneth may well play the entire game struggling to keep trees alive and not lose their powers, but that will be taken into account with the balance of the game. It's just their playstyle: Territorial, magical, defensive, ranged, with options for offensive units. If that doesn't seem meta or powerful, don't look into it too much. Points can change. If that doesn't seem fun, that's a shame. If it does seem fun, you're absolutely golden. Outside of tournaments, don't even worry about it too much, as well, as both players can take non-competitive lists and have the best time. I think things are looking up from their 3rd edition winrate. Have faith. Oh, and remember: They might get a battletome within half a year that fixes everything. We'll see.

[@markpandelidis2079]

Treelord is 260. I doubt it'll ever be 150 points. It's still a combat monster. Something not alot of armies have. And it can be included in regiments, so it's pretty good.

[@Sassafras1777]

It hits on 4’s, that is absolutely abysmal. The warscroll is just a hot mess with no direction

[@markpandelidis2079]

​​@@Sassafras1777 so does every other monster. MawKrushas have been nerfed into the ground, yet are still 400+ You completely overlooked the fact that a treelord can be put into a regiment so it doesn't increase your drops. And it absolutely does have a role. It's meant to be a tree that you can't retreat from. It's like a tar pit. Big tree, makes the enemy -1 to wound, maybe has a 5+ ward, 3+ save, heals a ton so it doesn't die. It absolutely has a role.

[@Sassafras1777]

@@markpandelidis2079 this is supposed to be a hero unit, and it can only hit on 4’s? Give me a break. Mawkrushas also get way more attacks, have more wounds, move faster, and deal more damage. The only thing this is good for is standing on a point and maybe surviving a turn or two on it. I see the point you’re trying to make, but you can’t seriously tell me that this looks like a fun unit to play. It just feels absolutely over costed and I highly doubt it will see any play. It’s a shame too, I really love the model

[@markpandelidis2079]

@@Sassafras1777 well alot of things are. But I don't think it won't see play. 260 isn't that expensive. 150 would be completely broken to be honest seeing as how TL Ancient, Alarielle and Durthu can each bring one. So you'd have 5 trees in your list for less than 1000 points. And none of them are unique so you could have an army of treelords which would be super broken if you ask me. Just saying. Maybe we disagree that's fine. I think a 220 range is probably right. Which is where they are now. I think they were fine and should have stayed where they were. But they over costed the launch. Hopefully September sees big points drops