Recoil Management and You - A Deep Dive into the Thumbs Forward Grip

A deep dive in how to best grip a pistol so the sights show up aligned, you can find the dot, and you can control recoil with a straight up and down sight climb.
TIME STAMPS ADDED FOR QUICK JUMPING - SEE BELOW
Standard disclaimer - some of the links and codes below may be affiliate links that generate a commission -
If you like gun stuff - you should probably have a membership at Big Daddy Unlimited - a buyers club that gets you access to the best prices around - lddy.no/qvw8
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Time Stamps for convenience
2:52 Yong Lee
6:05 Eric Grauffel - pt 1
8:09 Eric Grauffel - pt 2
10:15 Hwansik Kim - pt 1
11:16 Hwansik Kim - pt 2
15:50 Ron Avery - Pt 1
17:26 Ron Avery - Pt 2
19:46 Putting it together in Dry Fire
I reference a bunch of material - you can listen to the whole interviews here:
firearmsnation....
firearmsnation....
firearmsnation....
/ yleegm
/ hwansikcjswo

[@Crittek]

It's crazy how much i learned rewatching this a year later. I've gotten more experience behind a gun and even attended several matches. This resonates a lot more now.

[@redeye8526]

criminally underrated channel , the other guys are just reviewers he's the best when it comes to teaching technique

[@myst8217]

Went shooting last night for the second time with my G45 and was consistently low & right (lefty), the RO saw that I'm squeezing more than pulling so he let me know that. I'm looking forward to seeing what I can learn from this video. I'm 6min in

[@blantant]

Like many others, I'm revisiting this years after first seeing it. Virtually all my improvements in the interim have been from unlearning my super high aggro crush grip and incorporating the concepts that I gleaned from here. Thank you for compiling this and putting it up for free. I don't know where I would be if I didn't come across this channel

[@JustDefense]

Thanks I’ll try it

[@billalumni7760]

I know this video has been around for a bit, but I just found it. So incredibly right on everything. I never could do the really strong grip and have any accuracy. I have been drifting towards this method as I always wondered how kids that were under 10 years old could rock a competition and I know they didn't have anywhere near my grip strength. So thank you for filling all the finer points!

[@asav1976]

Man I love how you tried to aggregate all these perspectives from real experts to logically connect the dots and allow people to figure out how they should work to improve their grip and overall shooting competence. Well Done boss!

[@MiamiVice.]

This video was my first exposure to this channel. I come back to this periodically as a refresher, I've watched it at least 8 times by now. I've recommended it to many people looking to improve their pistol grip & recoil management. If there was a 'Criterion Collection' for firearms related content like there is for movies/cinema, this video would need to be included.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

High praise - thank you

[@jeffreyhernandez4186]

@@TheHumbleMarksman what mag pouch are those? Facing out, looks interesting.

[@Jenny-bc5kz]

Ok this has cleaned up my sight alignment instantly. I am a newbie and have watched 10000 videos and this is the only one i need to watch. Thank you so much for posting this😊

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

I have an update to this - see my most recent video called shoot like a boss

[@ChipSpencer123]

I love this. I keep remembering my LE career and I never had the feeling that I was pressing really hard, but I was very accurate and pretty fast. Years and years ago I read Brian Enos’ book on shooting I really liked his approach. This has been really good for me four years after you made it. I’d love to see more and more and learn what you’re doing now that may be different.❤ Great content. Thanks for being interested and doing something to improve others.

[@83tactical]

I wish i had watched this video 6 years ago, maybe i wouldn't have wasted thousands of rounds trying to find perfect grip. by far this is the best grip video explanation.

[@zigbeegooblesnort125]

I was a member of the NRA, but I got tired of their constant never ending harassment for more money. I got tired of buying Wayne $1k suits, his mansion, 5 star hotel stays, lemo rides, and 5 star restaurant meals.

[@chgofirefighter]

NRA is a joke! It’s all about money and greed for that organization. I’m a lifetime member and I honestly regret giving them my money, they’re are other true Gun owners organization that truly fight for your rights. Do some research!

[@sv2697]

Nah man u need to keep donating to the NRA, how the fk is he suppose to afford his yatch or private jets. They don't buy themselves.

[@zigbeegooblesnort125]

@@sv2697 You can keep giving money to Wayne and his minions. Me, I'm using my money for more freedom pills and dispensers.

[@sv2697]

@@zigbeegooblesnort125 I just don't give money to the NRA, I polish their boots and suck their 🐓. When they want more I'll be yes, master. Seconds please. Thank you master. 😂 This is how you all should be u ungrateful people.

[@johnspartan3405]

@@sv2697 you got a little NRA left on your chin

[@iam1smiley1]

I took a clinic with Ron Avery and asked for more info on why he thinks the "pliable grip" works.... He told me that when the hand muscles are overly tense, they don't "conform" to the grips as well and you lose surface area contact points. He explains stuff really well but that's basically what pliable grip comes down to. Also using the chest muscles to help hold.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

It makes all the sense in the world and I am jealous I haven’t had a class with Ron yet

[@philp411]

Ron is a master with his knowledge on pistol shooting. There is so much about grip: not just what your hands are doing but what your wrist and forearms are doing, how you squeeze into the gun and how your chest engages. Pliable “sticky” hands, Ron also advocates grip strength and worked with very heavy captain of crush grip strengtheners as well as heavy rubber bands that cause you to extend your fingers out. Stance is also a part of Ron’s style that works with grip.

[@RohannvanRensburg]

This especially makes sense when you're using granular or otherwise "grippy" tape on your pistol.

I was ready to click off this video thinking I knew it all, heard everybody. This really opened my eyes and got me reevaluating my grip. Thanks.

[@designated_hitter_EGA]

My first small arms instructor, on our somewhat tuned MARSOC 1911A1's, started the practical segment of our raining by demonstrating how he could fire the weapon with just a middle finger, web of the hand and thumb grip. He fired accurately, effectively and reliably and in cadence. It was not part of the lesson plan, he just wanted to demonstrate to us that you didn't have to gorilla fist it, to run it.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

running it and having the sights return to exactly the same point so you can fire again quickly are two different things.

[@nattrejo6574]

This helped me I was brought up to have a death grip and just trying this at home makes enough difference to make it feel better in my hand and I see my sights faster and they are more stable

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

awesome man - get it on the range and let me know how it works out!

[@HamiltonNgo-A24]

I come back to this video so often and since i first saw it about a year ago my shooting has exponentially improved. That and watching similar high level shooters with similar techniques such as ben stoeger. The best real life comparison i make with the pliable grip method is think about all the times you've played tug of war either one on one or as a team. If you've ever gripped the rope as hard as possible you'll find that your hand slips out very easily versus if you softly wrap your hand around the rope and just hold it there a bit your hands stick to the rope. The same application method applies to the gun.

[@emilyvandam8580]

This video is awesome! I'm a very new pistol shooter. Just started a couple months ago. Tons of good info here. I have a great instructor, but obviously need loads of practice on my own. I'm working hard at trying to improve and feel like this Will definitely help. Thanks so much for compiling this video! Can't wait to try out what I've learned here when I go to the range today! 🙂 Now I'm going to watch this like five more times.😅

[@replacesoundboard]

Thank you, I actually managed to understand some explanations from other videos I watched thanks to this one, and now I feel like I can grip the Beretta 92 the best out of all the handguns I tried.

[@replacesoundboard]

Small update about myself: I realised I was making a mistake in the way I was gripping: instead of gripping with the hand itself, I was actually using the fingertips to apply pressure... which means the hand itself was really loose, making the handgun very jumpy between each shots. I doubt anyone else would make that same stupid mistake, but I thought I would share all the same.

[@jdglock9114]

This is awesome. You explain things so well. I’d guess you’re an engineer or a professor. You have a gift. Thank you for your time and sharing your gift with us. 👍🏻🇺🇸

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

hope it helps. Cheers.

[@travispowell2471]

So for the past couple of yrs. I have sort of been experimenting with this very thing. Not by choice really. Had horrible carpal tunnel in my right hand, and lower grade carpal tunnel in my left. So as the condition worsens blood flow to the hands is restricted. Therefor I had atrophy of the muscles in both of my hands. The large muscle under my right thumb is visibly much smaller. So as the grip got weaker I had to try and compensate by really working the elbows and wrists. Oddly enough I advanced up the ranks of my chosen drug/game (IDPA) quite a bit. I think this is why I like my Steyr soo much. It helped me with control due to the grip angle/deep beavertail when I was struggling with grip. I still hold very firmly but not a crushing grip anymore. And It really believe it helps with trigger speed. My .02.

[@bobl2833]

This is a master’s collection with advanced editorial. Spot on.

[@marcusjahnke9287]

I’m a befinner and after my first IPSC competitions felt I need to grip harder, but when testing I felt I lost control. This method makes much more sense and now I’m eager to get down to the range and test it. Thank’s! //Marcus from Sweden

[@drmayo10]

I tried it and I did notice acquisition of the sights and also the red dot on target was quicker and more consistent. Thanks for sharing.

[@themcmc]

I love this video. You clearly have thought these things through, and it's awesome that you sifted through the podcasts and presented these gems. Their advice reveals that master-level skill, experience, and insight, and I love being able to absorb that. Thanks for this vid!

[@davidlink9509]

Great video. I was having a bit of trouble following it at first, but you really put it all together at the end. I could feel the difference immediately. Wasn't hunting for my front sight anymore. Really appreciate this one!

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

HOpe it helps!

[@shaka2608]

Just what the doctor ordered! The video format is excellent. I had watched Ron Avery's videos before and they make a lot of sense. If you watch his recoil control and accuracy it clearly shows that this method works. When I started shooting I used to use the push pull method - I stopped using it and noticed my accuracy suffered a little. Definitely going back to it after watching this video. JJ Racaza also advocates for the push pull method. With my support hand carpal tunnel issues it is good to see the top shooters state that one doesn't have to grip the pistol with all they've got. Thanks for sharing. I'll incorporate these lessons along with the other tips that you had given to me.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Best of luck with it. Cheers

[@deanstauffer787]

Every time I watch this I wish I could 'like' it again

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

That's high praise - thank you sir.

[@jamesmiller7911]

I'll help you out. *click

[@GhassanTheBomb]

Such a good video couldn’t have put it better myself

[@carlosdaniels9515]

@DeanStaufer liking your comment is my way of liking this again.

[@junsandiego3703]

Good video. I've been doing something like this the past year or so without realizing that the pliable grip was a thing. I just started experimenting one day and this seemed to work for me. Instead of gripping the gun with 100% pressure on both hands, I figured I could just press the heels of my palms together to lock my wrists. As I extend my arms, my elbows automatically roll out to keep the pressure while my fingers tighten a little to keep from slipping off the gun. The combination of my pressed palms and slightly tightened fingers keep pressure on the back and front ends of the grip. I also found that my chest muscles were also activated. Probably to stabilize my shoulders and the rest of my arms.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

That sounds pretty much like what I am doing

[@junsandiego3703]

@@TheHumbleMarksman That's why I was pleasantly surprised when I saw this video. You just got a new subscriber 👍

[@Rackrace-bm5yu]

At 7:35 I believe when he’s talking about the push/pull method it’s more of a twisting motion by the support hand on the trigger guard. That’s the only way it can make sense with the elbow in the position that he has it.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

I am playing with push/pull now. The crush grip is basically a push pull but crushing through the hand and anchoring your palm on gun to do so - the push pull starts the pull all the way up your arm.

[@lon242]

Thank you so much for making this. I'm a big nerd who's watched the Firearms Nation/Shooters Summit eps you mentioned here - the Grauffel & Hwansik ones at least - Can't believe I missed that Yong Lee one, it was super interesting. Coming from the "grip the shit outta the gun" style train of thought, I'm still largely trying to wrap my head around this grip style. Hearing these guys - especially Hwansik - reminds me of the Brian Enos book. Gripping the gun just enough, no side pressure, "it doesn't take a lot of force to control the gun"... Kinda let those words fall by the wayside seeing a lot of top shooters rely on the "squeeze tha shit outta the gun style" for years now. You of course mentioned Bob Vogel, but even Ben Stoeger and Hwansik himself, just last year, vouched for gripping HARD. Funny how things change and sometimes go full circle, huh? Add in that pliable grip concept from TPC, the Weaver-ish mechanics Grauffel mentions (front and back pressure being key) and I can see it making more and more sense. Err, at least, I think I do. I know you touched on this especially in the last portion with you dry firing, but I'm not sure I'm totally getting how to lock my wrists. I THINK I'm getting it by rolling my elbows out. Explaining it to me like I'm an idiot, how can I be sure I'm locking my wrists right...? Ever since that Jerry Mickulek video, in which he says it's vital, I never quite understood the idea. You're basically trying to stop the motion in your wrist that you'd use to scold someone, right? I always thought you'd need a lot of forearm strength to make that happen, but apparently not? And this might be a stupid question, but how do you even strengthen your wrists, which are all bone and cartilage?

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

So listen to the Hwansik one again - the part where he talks about going to the physical therapist - the tricep controls the elbow and the forearm controls the wrist. The goal is to stiffen both joints so that they can't be moved but keeping your fingers loose and mobile - I'll make a video showing what I mean to follow on this (be up by midweek). Mess with weaver only to feel what it feels like to do the push pull and lock out your elbow/ wrist while doing it. The goal is to feel what you're feeling in your wrist/elbow there in isosceles. I feel a tightness at the base of my tricep just above my elbow and the top of my forearm just below the wrist on the outside.

[@bimmer666]

@@TheHumbleMarksman you can test you locked the wrist by shooting one handed. If your wrist flips at recoil, you didnt lock it right. You can even test that by punch, or let someone punch under the muzzle while holding it onehanded.

[@danielkliemczak3450]

this is interesting. I "learned" to handle handguns with revolvers, when I was 12 yold... my dad though to always have a relaxed hand but to lock my wrist. Well... 20 years later and after having bought my 1st gun and returning to practice with firearms... My grip on my pistol is instinticve a "loose" hand and a locked wrist

I'm prepping for my first match and that front to back pressure makes perfect sense as explained by these professionals. I've been subscribing to that crushing the grip from the sides and it's working okay but I know there's got to be a better way. There's too much wobble when I do that, and I feel my speed is limited. Can't wait to get to the range and try this alternative method of gripping. Thanks Dave, for providing this kind of content.

[@erock37]

Exceptional and great lessons in this video! Will put this to use while dry firing and range training. I also battle with being cross eyed dominant as a right hand shooter. As of know my method to combat this is to present my pistol under my left eye while keeping both eyes open and not tilting or rotating my head. Not as consistent as I want to be but seems to be getting better.

[@Greatoneguy]

Awesome video 10 years of shooting still learning new techniques. Thanks

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

glad you liked it!

[@1SmokedTurkey1]

Bro just doing the push/pull was enough of cue for me to get consistent results. Can't wait to try this out on the range. I always thought gripping the gun as hard as possible had to cause jerky movements and I was right. I intuitively decided to loosen my grip a while back and low and behold the gun wasn't going in random directions when pulling the trigger. Combined with push/pull and the dot is right where it should be when the hammer falls.

[@yqtszhj]

Excellent video. Much of what was presented in the videos is the same as what I have learned works for me over the last 5 years and a WHOLE lot of ammo. I don’t compete but am a high volume hobby shooter. For me in summary what works is no dependence on thumb pressure as they are up and not touching the frame at all (I have large hands if that matters) This also puts the pistol lower pushing more recoil straight back. Then grip pressure is firm but not choking the grip, but good pressure high in the back, and on the front of the grip (kind of a push pull style). Then what I have found is important for me is that the side grip has as much surface contact as possible with firm but not a stranglehold grip. Then I work to get the right pressure left and right so that the pistol tracks up and down, and not side to side. One item of note for me is that the pressure and grip left to right varies a bit depending on the grip size, texture of the grip, and grip angle of the pistol I happen to be shooting to make it track straight up and down. I figured this all out mostly with a H&K P30 that I couldn’t do well with at all because of the trigger breaking so far back. This also tightened my groups a lot also. Thanks for another good video.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

yqtszhj that’s a pretty good summary. The “how can they use a loose grip” then Ron Avery kind of nailed it. I am nearly stacking rounds at 3 yards with .25 splits about a third of the time. I can feel it when I am doing it right- I just have to figure out how to do it all the time

[@supertruckertom]

Was down at Autrey's today and was trying to help a new shooter out. Grip and dry fire was what he needed. Stance too. His feet were only about 12"part.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

That's usually what it takes. Stance is usually a big culprit.

[@idl3john2]

Hey thanks for the video David, well done. This is David Levitt, we went to high school together. Fun to see where you are at with this.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

hey man! That's crazy! Good to hear from you - pistol shooting has been my hobby the past 6 years or so and that's bled over into this. You guys still in GA? We are in TX now.

[@idl3john2]

@@TheHumbleMarksman Yeah still in GA, although not in Atlanta. I am not into competition shooting but been living the concealed carry life for a year a d a half. Always trying to learn and train so I can be prepared for a day I pray never comes. Been really trying to figure out locking the wrist. Every 6-8 rounds I just drop one at 6:00. It will help me at long distances too. I will implement some of these tips at the range on Saturday. Great job of step by step explaining this. You are one of the few that takes the time to fo step by step. Anyone else you would recommend? How you like it in TX.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

idl3john2 yeah for consistency you have to treat your arms as a framework for absorbing recoil and not necessarily trying to control it. The grip is incredibly nuanced and you have to constantly be aware of what’s going on. Learning to lock both wrists is a huge step in the right direction. If the guys with YT presence. Honestly no one person really made the light switch go off for me - it took and continues to take listening a lot of different explanations on the same topic. The Firearms Nation podcast has great interviews typically and the Make Ready Podcast has some good stuff wrapped in an entertaining package. All the rest of it is experimentation and keeping grounded in until every shot goes into the same hole you can get better

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

idl3john2 and TX is fantastic- really like it here. Exaggerate the best parts of GA and turn up the heat 5 degrees and that’s a good analogy. And then add killer beef barbecue.

[@idl3john2]

@@TheHumbleMarksman For sure on the BBQ. I have done some conferences out in Dallas and eaten at Hard 8 BBQ twice and loved it. I am sure there is some even better stuff out there.

[@heeebeeegeeebeee]

You should do a similar deep dive video on movement. Actually you could do a “deep dive” series on all the topics, reloads, transitions, etc.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

I'll keep it in mind. I haven't been puzzling over those two quite like I was over grip.

[@heeebeeegeeebeee]

TheHumbleMarksman makes sense

[@robertrenstrom4668]

@@TheHumbleMarksman I thoroughly enjoyed this video and have sent it off to those I care about. However, as @Jeremy Wachter alluded to, the grip is part of the "suite" of techniques that are critical for the successful deployment of a firearm in self-defense. We are only as strong as our weakest attribute, e.g. reloads, multiple target transitions, lateral plus fore and aft foot movement transitions (walking heel-to-toe from the waist down), breathing, etc. Include with the techniques, exercises that are repeatable and reinforce those techniques. Use the same formula that you have with this one, sprinkle them in amongst your other reviews and all the serious folk will be clamoring for more.

[@aslanbosnakoglu8240]

grip is the priority

[@heeebeeegeeebeee]

@@aslanbosnakoglu8240 agreed

[@mdx9286]

I have a solid grip that works but I gave this grip a try just to see how it felt.... For a moment there, I closed my eyes and I began to think about when I learned to grip a golf club for the very first time. In essence, for those that have a sufficient golf grip, this handgun grip should work great. 👍🏼

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Learning to grip a handgun is like learning to read braille - basically.

[@WhiteMagicBusa]

What sorcery is this!! Immediate target acquisition with the white dot sights on my GI 1911 and I love it.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

hope it works well for you. Cheers.

[@DefangtheSnake]

Regarding Bob Vogel, he does not promotes a overly strong grip as well, he sends all forces forward and very high on the gun and much more forward than others. As most top shooters have an extraordinary grip strength they apply more force with less contraction as there is only a given force to be countered. If the gun is like in a vice you are likely on the right way. Important is using the chest and lats. Pinching the upper forearms in and forward raises the ellbows if you turn ellbows up it often ends ups with shoulder raise but not the wanted forward force. One has to choose straight arms or more bend ones like Ron does. On the run and multiple shoots I find it someway helpful contracting the abdominals as they anyway somewhat run, stop and shoot. If you look at Mike Seeklander he uses a clamoshell grip like twisting a tin cup having force forward on the beaver. Thanks for video. Nice work your doing.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Vogel is a beast - there’s no doubt his grip works for him - there appears to be an evolution where everyone is progressing more towards Ron/ Eric and away from Vogel - even Ben has talked more about loosening his grip increasingly in recent years

[@DadHub]

Definitely going to try this! All the videos I've watched up until this one had me hulk gripping with my support hand. Can't wait!

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Let me know how it works for you.

[@DadHub]

@@TheHumbleMarksman I will, for sure. Usually try to shoot once a week, so I should have some feedback this weekend! Thanks for the content!

[@DadHub]

Been longer than I expected, I forgot to get back to this vid lol! So I've found that this really is the case, a grip that isn't so tight can be very effective, but it depends on how it's done. I've been trying to incorporate this along with one other video from ASP (Active Self Protection). He mentioned tightening the pinky only, which makes sense if you think about the gun's movement mechanically. The web of your thumb acts like a fulcrum, gun fires, gun rotates on that fulcrum backward. So you minimize the rotation with the pinky, but because the pinky has its own muscle in the hand, the other fingers, namely the index, has freedom to move freely and quickly. Eh... Long story short, I've been experimenting with tightening the pinky, locking the wrist, keeping a loose trigger finger, and support hand aids in side stability. It's been pretty cool! If you'd like, I can try to share that link here from ASP. Not sure if you'd deem sharing another channel's content here would be appropriate... Hahaha! All in effort to be better protectors by learning!

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Daniel Lockridge I loosely follow ASP- I don’t go to him for technique though. Not stirring the pot but John wouldn’t do all that great in the context of competitive shooters IMO. He’s been pushing his training hard recently but I don’t think he’s there yet on his technique personally to where he can really comment and add value in the space. That’s just my opinion and I’m not trying to beef with the biggest gun channel on YT.

[@DadHub]

@@TheHumbleMarksman understandable!

[@TheRoninVids]

Thanks for putting in the editing time/work to make this video happen. Lots of great info and clearly I have a long way to go. At least I know what I can be practicing now.

[@deekay3064]

This was by far some of the most useful information I’ve ever seen on the internet. Thank you.

[@replacesoundboard]

I feel like I'm going to have to rewatch this video several times before I get a grip on the points being made. Lots of interesting things going on there.

[@replacesoundboard]

I feel like I'm doing this wrong, because whenever I roll my elbows out, my left hand acts as a lever: the lower part of the hand no longer touches the grip, and the base of the thumb is sinking hard against the grip. The longer I do it, the more grip my left hand is losing. Edit: Ah, I think I see now. I'm not supposed to rotate as hard as possible; I'm just supposed to make it happen so that my arms cannot act as a lever for the recoil. Instead, the lever will happen around the shoulders.

[@Robert-ko6wr]

Now that's instruction backed up be a talented team of experts. Listen, watch, do. Very nicely done sir with quality video and editing skills. Thank you for putting this together. Cheers.

That analogy of the ice breaking away from the side of a building did it for me. I get it now.

[@ItsMe48507]

Great video. I took the Handgun Mastery course at TPC and it improved my shooting by an order of magnitude. I think the pliable grip is right on the money. This is the first video I've seen of yours. Thanks!

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

about a week before he died I lamented I was worried I wouldn't make it to TPC in time to catch Avery. He was a legend.

[@detroitdraingang5037]

ive been trying to train smarter the last past yr. trying to control recoil ive been using less grip strength using more joints. this video lets me know ive been training the right way

[@kraftzion]

Nice video. I especially liked the last minute or so from the targets perspective.

[@markcox4930]

I'm a firearms trainer and this is a great video, I love the step by step instructions!

[@essentialsurvivaltraining5767]

Thank you for calling it a 'Slide stop' 👍🍻

[@grimesresurrection9357]

Great video! Thanks for putting this together, I'm a smaller guy(125lbs) so any tip helps, I have an autoimmune and metabolism issue preventing me from gaining weight. Maybe you can do one on shooting stance, in depth explination of how to lean into, foot in front and behind, how to roll the elbows and how to lock the wrists ect This video helped a lot

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

watch this space. I have another grip video coming out in January/February.

[@richardlindquist5936]

Great to see these segments, the ones from Ron Avery are oldie goldie’s.

[@coryjohnson6584]

Very helpful video, especially now that I have Talon grips on my P-10F (great video on that as well, btw). Tried the front-to-rear concept at the range today, you can feel the clean, vertical pivot as you shoot, clear improvement, very cool, thanks for taking the time to provide such detail.

[@ndcody]

This video makes me realize how basic my understanding is! Great content.

[@chilidem]

I never understood how guys would have their hands tore up during dryfire until I started flaring my elbows out. It increases pressure, without really "gripping" hard, in the hands and I've noticed my "2 shots from one sight picture" at close range really tighten up. Still needs work because I feel I don't do it when actually shooting a match. Thanks for the vid.

[@MarylandWearAndCarry]

I lost it when the instructor gripped the pistol with the biscuit. Lol

[@ida1751]

interesting to learn of the push pull method... I understood what he meant on neutralizing the recoil effect by simultaneously pushing with the palm of your dominant hand and pulling with the fingers of your supportive hand ... which makes sense in keeping the gun as steady as possible.. I guess , not mainly advocating grip strength is saying... grip it more wisely (aside from properly where position is concerned) ... instead of mainly gripping it harder. An interesting lesson in physics that can be applied to make it easier and more effective..

[@terribledeal]

I think with the "Push pull" thing your supposed to push out with your primary hand towards the top beaver tail and pull with your off hand at the bottom of the grip, using your arm muscles and the lever like interaction to steady the gun rather than muscling it with your hand grip.

[@joesavant5490]

I watched Bob Vogel's vid on this same thing, but this was much more informative. Thanks for posting.

[@dmarque]

Thanks for putting this insightful grip analysis together. Hearing each of these top marksmen describe in their own words their version of the grip then subsequently identifying the common elements of this soft hands concept from each does really help to facilitate the sensation of what I should be feeling with this more effective grip style. I do struggle with the phrase "ROLLING the elbows out". I assume that is a lateral move~?

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Rather than pointing your elbows at the floor- point them almost at the walls

[@kylestewart4444]

Grip is still something that I haven’t quite gotten down. I can put rounds on target very accurately, I just haven’t gotten to the level at which I can dump a full mag quickly, mitigate basically all of the muzzle flip and have the exact same grip at the end of my string of fire without adjusting it along the way. I see some guys doing 10, 15, 20 round strings of fire and the recoil and muzzle flip just seem nonexistent. Some guys say to have a somewhat relaxed grip, some guys say to squeeze as hard as you possibly can, some guys say to just treat the grip like a firm handshake. I’ll be going to the indoor range tomorrow so I’ll spend some time and try to get this technique down. Using a ton of grip strength on side to side pressure never really made much sense to me but that’s what a lot of guys teach

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Pay attention to the Ron Avery squish- this helped me immensely. I was at the range yesterday and did a triple bill drill at 10 yards- going as fast as I could I held it to 15A 3C.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Video is on my Instagram page if you care to see it

[@kylestewart4444]

TheHumbleMarksman I just saw it, very impressive. I’ll definitely give it a try

[@kfranklin308]

TheHumbleMarksman can you explain the squish grip part better? What your hands are doing exactly.

[@PopsQuest]

Very well done video and I do like the format I know a lot goes into this kind of video, I will work on this next live fire session and in dry fire and let you know what I find

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Keep me updated. For giggles do the weaver stance and feel how your wrist/elbow feel - it's easy to lock out that way - then try to recreate that feeling using the isosceles stance

[@lazerrred]

I’m very double jointed, so should be easy right Pops? Ummm, yeah right, lol. Very interesting the way it helped the kid hold on. Also, the looser grip with the joints locked is very interesting. Did. do some live fire today with death grip, to more relaxed and somewhere in between, there was a sweet spot the red fiber just danced up and down vertices a little

[@lazerrred]

Pops & THM, VERTICALLY. I’m KZbin challenged, but thanks for both of what you guys do. :)

[@robertrenstrom4668]

@@TheHumbleMarksman As a result of being cross eyed dominant, I have to move the sites to my left eye with my right hand which puts me in a Weaver stance but using the rest of the technique you've described Is something that I discovered through trial-and-error. Mostly error. Bringing it all together on the range and in a training regimen is something I'm going to pursue.

[@SwissMovement]

Very good. Love it. I’ve watched it multiple times already. Just need to watch a couple of dozen more times to get it just right!

[@sjk4823]

Fantastic freaking video!! This was incredibly helpful!! I didn’t realize how munch I was tensing my shoulders up and how hard I was squeezing both hands and not actually pulling my support hand back. This was absolutely helpful. Thank you, brother! Next time you are in Tulsa at the US shooting academy I’d love to by you dinner if you would accept! I will definitely try to say hi and thank you in person. Love your videos and your podcast. Keep up the good work!

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

I’ll be there for area 4! I might come shoot the OK section later this summer - haven’t decided yet.

[@Big88Country]

Absolutely AWESOME video and information! Thank you very much!! I look forward to putting these techniques to work my next range day.

[@stovepipe8966]

I spoke with a top shooter that has been trained by Eric Grauffel and he talked about the push / pull in the modified isosceles stance as being the key to accuracy at speed as opposed the often described side to side Death grip and rip I assume a lot of top shooters just do it naturally by feel but can’t fully describe it - I’m sure Bob Vogel is doing it without actually describing it as such - he’s definitely applying a lot of joint pressure- you can see it Rob Leatham has discussed it Jerry M demonstrates it as if your trying to push a stick into the ground Supposedly , Eric G has no interest in instructional videos as he prefers to teach in person I like to describe it as like creating a “wedge” on the front and back of the grip Pressure is applied high at the top of the grip tang with the strong hand wrist - supported all the way up the arm - locked on with your wrist and elbow angle - not by hand strength The weak hand wedges under the trigger guard and pressure is applied rearward at the pinky joint - with the force being created by your wrist angle - again supported by your arm position - Sean Burrows discusses this in his recoil management video Does this make sense to you ?

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

yeah - the more I've continued to think on it - it is a glorified push/pull method.

[@stovepipe8966]

@@TheHumbleMarksman Ya - once I get it all set up - rather then a crush grip - I torque my wrists in a bit - I think Sean Burrows demonstrates by twisting a water bottle

[@chrisf247]

I feel like you've just saved me hours of work with this video. Thanks!

[@ohenry4834]

I just had my gun recently, and a small guy, and been looking for a lot of videos and seems pretty much not convincing on helping me because most of this people are beefy so they can have the luxury of strength to manage the recoil efficiently, but when I heard of Hwansik Kim his idea of managing recoil it seems pretty much convincing and helpful to me. So I will try to follow his suggestion and hope it bears fruit. once again Thank you for sharing this video it helps a lot.

[@gentleoldguy4990]

Rob Latham had a good point "why pull the gun back, it already wants to go back when fired". To many "Experts" on everything. What works for one person doesn't work for another person. You have to figure out what works for you. Me, I've watched one Jerry Miculek video on how to shoot. It helped me emensely!

[@Rackrace-bm5yu]

Your logic is kind of flawed there and I’ll explain why. Many people in sports who excel in the sport don’t necessarily understand why they are good at the sport. In this particular video, it mentions that the gun is not flopping in your hand then you are gripping hard enough. This reasoning tracks because you can lock your wrist forward with an open hand. Most top shooters do not understand biomechanics very well or even at all; so what they think might be the secret to their success might not be necessary at all. Near expressing a theory that may be completely wrong. Recoil management is just a concise way to describe efforts to keep muzzle from flipping, so if some pressure backwards on the gun keeps the muzzle from flipping, then it is a valid technique. From what I gather from this video, the grip is important for shot consistency but is actually pretty negligible when it comes to managing recoil, Which I suspect comes more from actively driving the gun back on target. I suspect this has more to do with the large pushing muscles rather than the forearms and wrist. The technique that works for everyone and takes the least amount of energy is the most efficient. So if a big guy tells me I have to grab the life out of it in a little guy says I don’t have to grit it very hard at all, clearly how hard you rip the gun isn’t that important. The only problem I have with this particular video is that the push/pull description isn’t very specific, But that’s understandable because it’s more of a deconstruction and analysis of the comments of a top shooter then it is a strictly instructional video.

[@bradmiller9993]

Super interesting; I'll try some of these techniques at the range this week. As an older guy, I have always used the modified Weaver stance, but I'm going to try this since I've now acquired a 'dot' gun ( needing bifocals sucks), so we'll see how that goes. I like the format. Thanks for the video.

[@appliedperformance773]

I’ve been watching a lot of mike seeklander stuff on grip. He has opened some more doors into this style as well. He’s big on getting behind the gun as much as possible with both hands. I now can shoot berettas and 1911 type guns much more effectively using these techniques. So much I’m buying an elite ltt 92. I still believe every shooter has their own formula to find but knowing more about the different styles is becoming very helpful as I try to unlock peoples grip formula (I call it). I have modified myself to a hybrid of this style with still a hint of the Vogel pressures with the Glock . I find I can maintain and not fatigue at all using it. With other guns I’m almost exclusively this style now as opposed to trying to Vogel a beretta or cz which really doesn’t work well. Cheers

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

every platform and hand size will definitely be different. If the hard pressure into the back of the gun is the bedrock of the grip technique - I have found that index naturally adjust regardless of grip angle/platform. Grab a 1911 - and push into the beaver tail and the sights line up. Same thing on a Glock - if you press in on the grip tang you've driven the sights down. Anything can be made to work - no doubt - but I think there is some nuance that is a generally better idea in a lot of cases. Even Vogel's grip does basically all the same thing - but his grip strength is relying a lot on traction on the sides of the gun. The LTT is awesome - I would be interested in one as well. Need a G48 first.

[@appliedperformance773]

TheHumbleMarksman Glock definitely gonna sell the hell out of those. Probably getting one for the gf and me. Is hwansik the guy on stoeger podcast all the time.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Athletic Performance Shooting yes that’s the same guy. He’s also on practical shooting training geoup

[@WTFSoCal]

really well explained, i had several ah ha moments ! i knew about rolling the elbows but keeping the hands soft but the tention in the fingers over the front strap... oh boy...Im back to square one... awesome video !

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

let me know how it goes for you - I'm genuinely curious how the technique helps folks. I'm an "objective truth" guy so more data is better.

[@mandodelorian4668]

This is a great video, I gotta laugh at myself though because I get distracted watching them shoot and then not paying as much attention to what they're saying, haha.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

they're all pretty amazing.

[@EyesadriftVA]

Dig the instructional format. Will have to practice this and apply it to this weekend's PPC match.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

good luck!

[@brucilix]

I am doing the push pull method with focus force on three fingers on the grip backward to keep my hand all the way up to the tail but arms pushing forward a lil bit, and firm grip on my support hand while it is pushing back and downward to compensate with the muzzle flip. I have only been shooting for about a month and I can do a 2.75 inch diameter circle grouping for 18-21feet. So maybe I am in a right track who knows! Just need to get those 9s back to .15 a pop

[@zato6226]

I've been watching your videos , and others, trying to figure out why my support hand loses grip, fingers slipping off after the first shot, and all I've been finding is "Grip tighter", which I think I'm already doing. The is the complete opposite. I've been stuck here for months shooting hundreds of rounds and still can't figure out the problem . First shot, readjust grip. If I keep shooting my left just keeps sliding off. I've been basically gripping like Vogel. Squeeze tight, not like a monkey, and lift elbows. I'll give this a try. Thank you. And yes, I subscribed.

[@stansenter2660]

Thanks for sharing these tips/lessons. Just started shooting in the local IDPA matches(next month will be #3). I've been trying to find my grip to get more accurate and faster. I'll be working on these dry fire and to try next match.

[@ChaohsiangChen]

Having practiced Aikido for years, I can see how this magic works..

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

the more I play with it the more the push/pull seems to work.

[@billybastar4022]

So not using the pliable grip?

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

@@billybastar4022 the pliable grip sort of default works by doing push pull, since I'm not tensing up my palm to try and push into the back of the gun it sort of default works.

[@billybastar4022]

True, but as try to employ the method of rolling the elbows, I find the bottom of the palms want to move away from the grip. I wonder if I am doing it wrong.

[@dannertactical]

@@TheHumbleMarksman I think there are a lot of different ways of describing the grip pressure on the gun. When I grip I never thought I was push pulling but when I grip my gun and think about it I can feel a push pull, but can also the pliable nature of it. However, I describe it differently. I still think most novice type shooters need to grip more with their support hand. A lot of this is semantics...but still good info.

[@finalaccuracy7695]

So true on the listening concept

[@kenschaefer5303]

Great video. I never knew of the individuals that you showed on this video. I'm just getting started in shooting. I'm fairly consistent on targets but I'll have a day where it just doesn't happen. I need tips like these, subtle as they are yet useful to practice with. Thanks so much. I always learn something from your videos. Ken

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

those are the masters for sure. I'm just a hack with a youtube channel.

[@carpediemyes]

Outstanding lesson ! Interviewing experts is a great way to learn. Thank you!

[@rchurch4765]

Excellent instructional video. Very much like approach of using the Shooters Summit videos along with your analysis and commentary. Would like to see more like this.....

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

gonna be tough - that one took a year to make!

[@doobiedoo5450]

Excellent vid. The walk through on the grip was a nice bonus. Thanks!

[@ryanmilton2643]

this is super interesting. As a very new comp shooter, my. whole world of shooting has been turned upside down-- like I can't do it-- and this conversation is useful

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

If you are shooting iron sights - watch my tim heron interview

[@ryanmilton2643]

@@TheHumbleMarksman will do!

[@jonathanfrost944]

Dude this is awesome. I’m taking a course with Yong Lee in December. Great video. Well done and much appreciated. I’ll be watching this a lot!!

[@jonathanfrost944]

Did you shoot carry optics nationals? I shot production. Pretty awesome to see the top shooters. I realize how much work goes into becoming a great shooter.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

I didn't shoot nationals - I wanted to - but families gonna fam, new job and not much time off accrued yet. I kept an eye on your vids - looked like a fun match. Does Yong have a schedule posted anywhere of classes? I would move stuff around to go train with him. Please do an AAR with the Yong class - if he lets you do snips of his instruction I'd love that too!

[@jonathanfrost944]

@@TheHumbleMarksman I only know of this class, it's an "advanced pistol optic management" class december 15-16 in homestead, fl. $460. I don't shoot with a dot but will run a carry optics gun for the course and my finacee shoots open. 2 day class. There's an ad from firearms nation I shared on my facebook that I think was from their facebook, but not sure where it originated from. You can message Yong Lee on facebook. Really generous and helpful guy, I am looking forward to meeting him, it might turn me into a carry optics guy, lol. Hope you can make it, I think there's still spots left. I don't know what an AAR is??

[@douglassalley9117]

@@jonathanfrost944 I would guess AAR means After Action Report.

[@couldronofcats]

this technique is straight from many martial arts like wing chun judo jujitsu boxing having relaxed muscles and a strong skeletal structure using the friction and alignment in your wrists and hands with the structure of your body to delivery or receive force

[@siuwong8930]

Hello David, did you try Ron's technique about camming the strong hand wrist? Third knuckle of index and middle fingers facing on the target and create straight line force just like a vertical punch, I think that is the biggest secret of why he can shoot almost completely flat.

[@nathanjames7030]

looking forward to digging into this one

[@doug2784]

Really fantastic. Only sad that I didn't see this two years ago....

[@jacobvids]

Thanks for compiling all the tips from the various pros! Will definitely try this version at the range.

[@SuperIsaac79]

Great video...the techniques described make a lot of sense.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Hope it helps - cheers.

[@khuramsayeed8429]

Thank You Humble Marksman for this!

[@kevo1045]

first of this type of collaboration I've seen, good stuff. thanks and going to look for more

[@grapeshot23]

THis video is awesome, thanks for putting it together

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@ThinLineDefenseCo]

This answered my questions on grip and draw! Thanks. Time for a few thousand tries to get it locked in!

[@chicharrone007]

bringing so many pieces of the puzzle together. So much info! thanks. (even though I'm still struggling to doubletap to my liking!)

[@terzoanthony]

Best video on grip I’ve seen. Thank you

[@jimwilson3837]

Great summary from analyzing top shooters.

[@shoshanae3830]

Hi Humble Marksman. You asked for feedback. I have trained with Ron Avery also, and your vid seems right on. I'm also a visual artist and what I don't like in vids is poor sound and poor visibility. Your chin is almost at the bottom of the screen with room over your head. I suggest you fix your camera (slightly wide angle or more distance with a portrait size lens) so that your head is in the right place with about 2/3 of your torso in view. When you demonstrate the elbows first you are doing it below the viewable area. If you can keep everything in view, it would improve things amazingly. Thanks for getting this out there as my muzzle flip has decreased exponentially with this technique from Ron A. and others. Best!

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

Thank you for your honesty! I have since quit using the old camera - so vid quality should be better for now and a proper camera is on the list for later in the year. It will have a view screen i can see from in front of the camera! I have gone to a lavalier mic pretty much full time now as well. Eventually the quality should make it into the decent category!