It's not all evolution: Denis Noble on how consciousness develops from disorder FULL INTERVIEW

[@TheInstituteOfArtAndIdeas]

Do you agree with Denis' take on consciousness? Is water an essential piece of who we are? Let us know what you think in the comments! To hear more Denis Noble and his revolutionary ideas on genes and biology, see iai.tv/video/biology-beyond-genes-denis-noble?KZbin&+comment&

[@ilhamiinan1120]

@@TheInstituteOfArtAndIdeas amazing mind and explanation. Thank you for sharing. Next question could be how we could understand and observe - if possible -from inanimate to animate transitions? I agree that consciousness is biological not computational. And making AI system out of water is still not enough to has consciousness 😂 Amazing match with Roger Penrose❤️ Spas

[@imaginaryuniverse632]

I would say that Life is biological as the mode by which consciousness creates and experiences life. I would say water is obviously necessary for life such as what we experience but I believe the evidence suggests consciousness is not at all bound by it's experience but is the fundamental creator of experience and so can choose from an infinite list of conceivable modes of life. Keep in mind when I refer to consciousness I am not at all referring to a person's brain but rather the creator of that brain of which the brain can never know. Know what I mean? If so ask your brain if it knows keeping in mind it's skilled in the art of deception.

[@Thomas-gk42]

No, it´s panpyschism that has nothing to do with science.

[@isatousarr7044]

Water is ''the'' essential piece of who we are, both biologically and philosophically. Biologically, water makes up about 60% of the human body, acting as the medium for virtually all biochemical reactions. It regulates body temperature, transports nutrients, removes waste, and serves as a solvent for vital substances. Every cell depends on water to maintain its structure and function, underlining its irreplaceable role in sustaining life. Philosophically, water has been a symbol of life, adaptability, and connection in cultures worldwide. Its presence in rituals, literature, and science highlights its profound importance not just as a resource but as a defining element of our identity. Beyond being part of our physiology, water is woven into our existence, connecting us to nature and each other. Without water, life as we know it would cease to exist, making it not just an essential component but the cornerstone of who we are.

[@AnatolyKern]

nope, should have started with definitions to argue better.

[@nada13_08]

Once I heard it described this way, roughly, "We know animals have all these parts that function identically to our own. Nobody argues that they don't have feet to walk, mouths and stomachs to eat, noses to smell, ears to hear, eyes to see, nerve endings to detect pain, immune systems to fight infections, lungs/gills to breath, hearts to pump blood, but we refuse to accept that they too have brains to think, just as we do."

[@alkintugsal7563]

They do understand I think it is unfair to claim they don’t my cat understands if I say let’s go for a walk and follows me every time wherever I go basically we take walks together.If he wants to go out he shows me the door by moving his head and being vocal nothing can tell me that is not conscious I presume many pet owners will tell similar stories if anyone asked.

[@vejoshiraptor]

Who denies that animals think? No one I have ever heard.

[@AdhvaithSane]

The denial of reality people have, even when they are shown what *should be* “undeniable” proofs, is a sign of either two things, actual lack of intelligence or intellectual/emotional blindness. Which is a very real phenomenon and it is quite common among people, perhaps a VERY common phenomenon that I find very interesting, and it’s something that should be studied by psychiatrists.

[@tessasus1372]

@@nada13_08 the worst is that these sentient, thinking beings are treated as machines or just useful products. Anyone who eats animals not ony becomes grave for their bodies. but also suffers dissonance of consciousness ... both harmful on all levels

[@DrNosepick]

I cannot help liking Denis Noble. It's not only his intellectual breadth, though I like that too. Notice how he pays very careful attention every time the interviewer asks a question. He really listens. Quite rare.

[@elfpiesomeanotherword]

yeah

[@theostapel]

Just that - no one lives out their name - while answering questions.

[@mechannel7046]

1:00 symmetry of order and disorder. Yin and yang. 6:00 this view vs neo darwinism. Octopus 9:40 consciousness emerged during Cambrian explosion 13:10 Jerry Coyne 15:00 Qi 18:10 Ai not made of water. Humans are. AI crystal structure, fixed, cannot harness randomness 21:15 definition of life: molecules in liquid suspension that goes on forever 22:10 symmetry btw order and disorder. Disorder needed

[@jacgui1]

I 'd like this man was my grandpa to have long talks with about consciousness and life every weekend...

[@maybepriyansh9193]

absolutely loved listening to him talk with all the disorderly ordered passion in his heart

[@Jacob-Vivimord]

I'm drawing interesting connections in my mind with some of what Noble says here and what I think of an organism as being, as an individual, epistemically bound entity-knowing being a mode of survival, a way of getting order from disorder. So an organism doesn't "know" in the abstract, but rather as a means to persist, thrive, and adapt within the constraints of conceptuality. It is the very conceptual process that we are making persist. That's what life is-the persistence of the conceptual process, the ongoing generation of order and intelligibility within the constraints of an organism's epistemic boundary. As our health falters and we near death, our capacity to produce this order, this intelligibility, diminishes, until the epistemic boundary finally collapses. At that moment, what was once contained within the boundary dissolves back into formlessness.

[@gavo007]

Agreed, the “knowing” or belief of sentience or free will is enough to drive the persistence of the survival mechanism. This doesn’t bode well for us regarding AI as it significantly lowers the bar for it to become a danger to humanity. I.e. no singularity required, simply an analogous belief.

[@rozalialuks6583]

It is Wonderful just to listen to the way he does his brain exercises. Much Respect!

[@RickyFinley-me4kp]

Wow. I could listen to lectures from this guy all day long

[@iknowgoodmusic6847]

thank you for posting this. great interview, brilliant questions

[@Video2Webb]

I really enjoyed this interview! Denis Noble is an original thinker and they are not so common, never have been. Now I want to follow up and learn more of his thinking.

[@IlseFrech]

Loved listening to Mr. Noble, especially when coming to his conclusion in regard to AI and Consciousness, towards the end of the interview.

[@alex79suited]

Noble, the living Legend. Peace ✌️ 😎.

[@MarcelPirosca]

Thanks Denis, remarkable interview.

[@MA-ResearchEdu-e9l]

BRILLIANT interview

[@user-zq2fd6zu8x]

An amazing interview

[@JpVF_ArtStudio]

The tension between order and disorder is the reason for subsequent movement.

[@beetweedledee]

That is so very well said! So beautifully put! I believe that this movement is referred to as the Brownian Effect - I will verify later. I have returned…. Verified: it’s called Brownian Motion. Once again, I admire your logic, equivalent to poetry. It serves to excite my inquisitive mind. When I was a child, I hungered to learn, and my ideas were advanced for my age, perhaps because I have been born autistic. My wife said to me about a week ago, she said that I am different than anyone she has ever known. I realized immediately, after she said that, that she is more special to me than I am special. And would you believe: people have always referred to me as “crazy” - I can’t explain why I tell you these things except I believe I want you to know “WHO” appreciates You the way that I do. The gentleman in the video impressed me, too. Best Wishes - Bunny

[@stevenyafet]

Brilliant and will be misunderstood because we don't do slow thinking by default. Therefore we don't properly hear the "dirty notes" of the jazz greats, the overlapping tree branches from Cezanne, Shakespeare word rearrangements... If you are sensitive to these you will have an ecstatic response to them, which is why we spend such effort and time at it. Dr Noble's model is so beautiful.

[@dmugsthecoolest]

Dennis is a living science legend.

[@polytechnica]

At what point does simple information processing transform into subjective experience?

[@Lqvy1]

As soon as your brain filters what you perceived it becomes subjective experience.✌️

[@JackHarrison-x5c]

@@Lqvy1 and what if it doesn't filter what you perceive?

[@benaregai9416]

Then the brain is just an instrument of observation. It doesnt record anything and therefore doestn/cant generate experiences

[@Lqvy1]

@@JackHarrison-x5c Enlightenment, aka permanent ego loss. Or just straight up Alzheimer’s.

[@JackHarrison-x5c]

@@Lqvy1 🤣😉🙏

[@MrExplosionFace]

I believe Dennis is on the right track, and he certainly knows more about the specifics and the mechanics of evolution than I, but I think he needs to extrapolate further. That water isn't water, it's energy in a specific pattern. And the definition of a pattern is something that can be replicated. So it stands to reason that if we were able fully and completely understand the entirety of the energy Matrix that comprises that molecule of water, then why two would we not be able to replicate that in a computational manner? I think he's right that some disorder is necessary for the perception of consciousness, and yes that's something that either our current systems aren't capable of due to the crystalline nature of the silicon chips, as he stated, or if it's just not something we've factored into our current understanding of programming, but the truth of the matter is that our computational systems are mere shadows of what would be necessary to achieve the aforementioned feat. But that doesn't mean impossible. Extrapolate outward. Where is it written that we are on the top of the heap?

[@tixch2000]

Life is much more than a bunch of water molecules moving randomly don't you think? However, his idea of symmetry between order and disorder is interesting to my view. An example is that the most amazing phenomena that manifest in nonlinear systems is at the edge of chaos where regular and irregular patterns can emerge and co-exist. Life as we know it is quite orderly, but without randomness (creative process) there is not way a system can survive and evolve in a competitive environment. Coming to consciousness, this is a much harder question... Thank you for this interesting interview.

[@granduniversal]

This subject is also important to me for religious reasons. I'm a universalist. I believe that God loves everyone. What we are really doing here is learning toward growing up as a species. That can't be based upon behavior that is rooted in beliefs that cause you to act against your own best interests. But true free will is about making those sorts of decisions. Only, you are supposed to know what you are getting into when you do it, not experimenting. Being born into something amounts to experimenting. Under universalism, very few would even be religious because there is no sword being held over you. Only the curious would apply. Not that many people are really that curious. Experimenting is very important. Experiment and reason should go hand in hand when arriving at wisdom. And that is what we are talking about, that God would want us to be wise, not dependent. Maybe not completely, but enough that we avoid the inquisition. I think that consciousness is widespread. And that it is related to nothingness. I believe that its basis is in nothingness, such that it does belong to all living beings, but that it is qualified by the complexity that surrounds it. I also think everything is made of math. Stillness, or nothingness, or chaos, are related to the arguments that go on when we discuss zero. You see, nothing exists at zero. Except that every number is actually contained within zero, they just don't relate to each other in any meaningful way. One is how you discover that relationship, not zero. But, then, is zero over zero one, zero, or undefined? I think it is undefined, unless we are talking about a gateway to arriving at one. You can have brain regions that outright afflict you. Whatever the resolution of their math is, though it disagree with you, it lies close to whatever a quiet you would be. That doesn't mean that you can't overcome those with stillness. But you have to realize enough to know what your true motivations are. What you love will guide that. We tend to back what we love even when it is wrong. It's a big challenge to figure that kind of thing out and get back to being neutral. Overcome what was done to you. Erase it with love. Don't become a selfish monster. That sort of thing. Get at true nothingness and not at what you only thought it was because you needed to see certain things happen. Get to the place where it is a whole lot easier to respect others.

[@charlesfarrant6819]

Just a brilliant and exciting perspective on life.💃

[@charlesfarrant6819]

And reference of concensus and argument among theoreticians

[@drtariqhabib]

Does anyone know name of the host of this thought provoking conversation?

[@PACratt]

Thank You Denice, sir, I Love and Appreciate your clarity on this, about water :-} As well as the Cell :-} Well Done :-}

[@tombesson7293]

Hearing came about through our need to balance in space. Maybe consciousness started out as something to deal with a different adaptation, then evolved into the state that we call consciousness today.

[@TheeOldest]

Wonderful! Thank you for this.

[@lettersquash]

There is nothing in what Noble said here that cannot be understood from a purely mechanistic perspective, including one in which consciousness is an epiphenomenon, or - a slightly weaker version - part of the flow of causation, but entirely produced by earlier causes. In my view, while consciousness can't be denied, free will is an illusion. Noble's little parable about how his "conscious decision" to cycle was the cause of his leg muscles growing actually revealed one of the facts that undermine that idea - other forms of transport were "too expensive," and presumably he was motivated by various things to study and get ahead in life - all products of his evolution and environment. It's perfectly feasible that some stochasticity might be involved in life's processes, such as the vibration of water molecules, but water isn't some kind of magical compound, and there are methods by which an AI could use similar "true" randomness (if there is anything at all random in the universe, a question we still haven't answered at the quantum level). An AI wouldn't have to be "built out of water" (what a loon this guy is), just have a little drop of it, or some other random-number generator. Even pseudo-random might do just as well. It seems to be good enough in computer games: we'd be very surprised if we started playing and the game evolved exactly the same as it did any other day. I would also be very surprised if AI models don't already use random-number generators!

[@ranjanjoshi3454]

Excellent insightful

[@thedolphin5428]

The whole order/disorder thing is the essence of Eastern thought. Good on Noble for being open to it. Otoh, Dawkins calls it woo-woo. The Western rational mind is obsessed with "order-good, disorder-bad" paradigm. The Tao is the balance, the interplay, the dance, between the polar opposites ... a more complete etioligy and ontology.

[@mattsch21]

@@thedolphin5428 science is about making predictions for the future. And empiricism as a whole is concerned with that. This is not science or empiricism in any capacity, and should not be presented or talked about as if it is science. This is low-level philosophy aka the ponderings of an old man. If he was actually from an dharmic culture, they would just call this talk theology.

[@lettersquash]

​@@mattsch21 I often scan through the comments to see if I can find a critical thinker in the haystack of awe-struck admirers, and you win the prize. Theology, indeed, or, as Dawkins said, "woo-woo".

[@JariDawnchild]

​@@mattsch21Science is not about making predictions for the future. Science is about learning through observation and educated guesses based on those observations. If enough is learned, reasonably accurate predictions can be made, but it is not a given that those predictions will be. If a prediction turns out to be accurate, the "how" might be partially taken care of, but the "why" still leaves room for learning. If a prediction is inaccurate, there was either a flaw in an experiment, or the prediction was wrong, but either way there's more to learn. A prediction might be accurate in one instance, but inaccurate in another similar-enough instance, so there's still be more variation to learn from there as well. One of my teachers told us in class once that "Science tries to prove itself wrong. If it can't, then it needs to be done again several different ways."

[@matswessling6600]

@@JariDawnchildand the way it proves itself wrong is to make predictions of the future which then can be falsified.

[@miralupa8841]

great interview, great mind, great man!

[@tdufresn]

A pleasure to listen to such a thoughtful, intelligent elderly man. Fantastic. Thank you.

[@TomHamilton221155]

BRILLIANT

[@atheistbushman]

Nice interview

[@angledcanid]

20:00 Dr. Noble, Liquid Neural Networks (LNNs) were actually invented a couple years ago based on the principle you're outlining here! Would love to hear your comments on this.

[@wallafied]

This is why the placebo effect works on the mind then body. Placebo effect proves his theory

[@IMAHMS]

We have as much free will as we are identified with our motivations, within the limitations of available options.

[@reescribiendolarealidad]

Consciousness is everything, precise, eternal, and omnipresent, we direct our body and our inmune system.

[@IdiotDoomSpiral69]

Why would you believe this?

[@brendawilliams8062]

Thank you

[@JariDawnchild]

Consciousness is an emergent property of a sufficiently evolved organism, a spectrum if you will.

[@chrisgriffiths2533]

I Suspect Consciousness is at the Start of Life. Hence it is Highly Likely Consciousness Built Human Brains and Other Animal Brains. Except Human Consciousness is the Lead Consiousness and Easily the Most Advanced of Earth's Life. For Some Reason, Humans are Special and Dangerous at the Same Time.

[@ramseypietronasser2]

This is great

[@Corteum]

So how does he define consciousness? What are the physical characteristics or properties of conscious/subjective/first-person experience? the capacity to experience information is defined by what?

[@criticalfoodie]

This is a good old man.

[@Psycandy]

until you define it, describing it from our perspective can only be flawed. and anyway, if mutation is disorder then all life on earth developed from disorder.

[@indianrunner666]

No subtitles 🙁

[@Thomas-gk42]

They just arrived

[@ramseypietronasser2]

Brilliant

[@CollaterlieSisters]

I am surprised so many of the comments here seem to presume the word 'consciousness' has a universally accepted meaning. It seems not inconsistent with Denis' 'look in the eye' test, in which he implies the meaning of the word is intuitively obvious. AFAIK any claimed association between Descartes' writings and 'conciousness' rests on 'thought' as a sufficient (though not necessary) ingredient - though I would be happy to be corrected on this by more knowledgeable folk here. Anyhow, due to the lack of equality (or even overlap) between these two 'tests' I would be interested to hear Denis give his definition of the word. Ideally in a way that permits an objective test.

[@metaontology]

I believe stocasticity in the primary resonance of a cell is the effect of Fourier transforms on the frequency resulting from quantum superpositioning electromagnetic fields Thanks for this brilliant interview!

[@drtariqhabib]

I need to analyze each individual concept in your statement and establish its bottom-up linkage to fully understand the overall idea conveyed in your statement. If your time permits, can you please elucidate it a bit more?

[@MrPokerblot]

Very interesting

[@gomezscahrs462]

depends on the consciousness types that refflects to immune system configuration that manipulate sense and development programing in the struggle as disorder within the energy complex growth and survival

[@rudilambert1065]

I believe that every situation has an optimal level of choas. Too much of it and you have... well, chaos... but if you have too little, there arent enough raw elements for creativity.

[@thedolphin5428]

Around 20:00, his point about AI being made of silicone vs humans made of water equals the clear and fundamental difference between PHYSICS and BIOLOGY, and thus proves that AI could *never* become concious, because conciousness is a BIOLOGICAL PROPERTY of sentient beings. No robot or AI algorithm, no matter how complex, can ever be biological and therefore never conscious.

[@miralupa8841]

that's not what he says at all

[@nada13_08]

I don't see where you're getting this from. I'm sure he's willing to entertain the possibility of non-carbon and water based life forms. Essentially, you're saying that if an alien came down, whose body and mind were based on anything other than water, he would say it is not conscious. I truly do not think that is how he would interpret such a happening.

[@cindyspiess9963]

@@thedolphin5428 That sounds very correct . My knowing says it's true .

[@sohaibimran9]

"Artists seem to know instinctively that a perfectly symmetrical object is not so beautiful", in this statement what does prodessor Noble mean by instinct in the perspective of his order and disorder theory? Is instinct governed by the ordered part of our brain or its just well instinct? So does an artist makes a conscious choice to slip in some asymmetry in their work or its just the natural disordered, stochastic part of their brane taking over? and if its not the disordered part of our brain taking over the creative process and we create some of that disorder from the very order that we are, is that entirely possible? Like I genertae random numbers in a computer program but computers run on transistors and well transistors are logical so how can they create randomeness? and finally are the typos in this text beautiful? because I dont think I left them consciously.

[@skhi7658]

I always have to laugh when I hear this strange illusion argument. If consciousness is only an illusion, then the consciousness that it is an illusion is also an illusion. The argument thus refutes itself and ends in a paradox of the type : "I always lie". ( If I always lie, then this statement must also be a lie.) This brings us back to the beginning of the debate. For example the hologram of an apple is not an illusion either, but only what we mistakenly believe about the content it depicts. The hologram itself is in fact NOT an illusion. Just as a lie cannot be lied (for then it would be the truth), an illusion cannot be itself an illusion ( for then it would be reality .) Only a consciousness can be subject to an illusion..

[@CRS1952]

@@skhi7658 the infinite regress is ubiquitous. It is where existence exists.

[@skhi7658]

​​​​​​​​​​​@@CRS1952 "I think , therefore I am aware " is exactly the same as : "I subjectan illusion , therefore I am aware". This argument is not about WHAT happened , but about the fact THAT something happened . Whether you actually think or who are just imagining , is completely irrelevant. In both cases the fact ( an event as a registration ) is real. So consciousness is real.

[@TruthEludesUs]

@7:50 regarding Descartes -- "it was the one thing about he was absolutely correct"... rigid assertions like this tell me this man is prone to bogus handwaving and overstating his case for his hypotheses. Order? Disorder? Consciousness? We know nothing and in our guesswork can't even define these ideas clearly.

[@ximono]

Perfection is lifeless, dead. Thank goodness we're not perfect.

[@IMAHMS]

That is a contradiction. Perfection is unchanging, not dead, as if the proprty of living is objectively a good thing and being dead is undesirable, then perfection must be alive.

[@ximono]

@@IMAHMS I don't see the contradiction. What's unchanging is dead. I'm not saying life is good and death is bad. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. But I do prefer what's alive to what's dead, and I don't care much for perfection as an ideal.

[@annaynely]

Consciousness+ a cup a tea.

[@ALavin-en1kr]

I would disagree with the headline. Consciousness is fundamental, it expresses through the elemental. The reality we experience is not one dimensional or material only. It is triune: Consciousness (fundamental); Mind and Elements (macro and micro) both elemental. As Chinese philosophy has it: nothing happens with three, and it is the case. So, so, so, tired or atheistic materialism. At the cusp of a quantum age we can and should know better. As well human evolution, as perceived in a higher age, preceded from its own unique human prototype, not from the prototype of an entirely different species. Human consciousness develops and evolves from experience both orderly and disorderly. The mind is likely elemental (a subtler elemental than the material elemental) and it likely emerges with quantum events and does the macro and micro elements.

[@IdiotDoomSpiral69]

Do you have any kind of rational justification for what you have said here, or is that something you are "so, so tired of" too?

[@mig_kite]

Consciousness, what is it? Some claim only humanity possess, some believe it’s a universal property present in everything, some believe it’s an emergent facet of inteligence. So what defines something conscious? Is it the ability to have a subjective experience? How would we know if other beings have this experience (or not)? Experience implies an experiencer, so is it the ability for self-reference? The ability to create an image of ourselves and of the environment surrounding us? What about beings that don’t possess this ability but still can map out their environment, is that just a “robot” reacting to inputs and generating an output? Aren’t we just the same though? Aren’t all of our actions reactions to the environment as well? Choice, we say humanity has free will to choose. Well I’ve seen both my cat and dog choose between a scolding or their own urge, are they conscious? Maybe instead of consciousness we should talk about unconsciousness. We say we are unconscious when we can’t remember, when we don’t “record” anything, when our notion of environment and self are not present, when all sensation is cut off from the microscope of awareness. So consciousness implies a couple of concepts of which some may not be present and some of us would still call it consciousness: memory, sensation / reactive system and self-reference / agency which implies identity and goals. We could say that a cell is a reactive system and a human is an agent. Many would categorize animals (which we are as well…) to be a reactive system possessing no consciousness. But isn’t an agent also a reaction to the memory the being contains? A psychological center organizes and creates order around the being. A psychological entity which (often) believes it is independent and separate from environment. The experiencer and the experience, the analyser and the analysed, the observer and the observed. Aren’t all these two sides of the same coin? A convention? If that is so, how could we say we are unique and that AI does not have the ability to be conscious or sentient? I’m blurring these lines intentionally because at root, an agent might just be a more complex form of a reactive system and the implications of this for AI and virtual agents are massive.

[@mig_kite]

I wonder, maybe the only act of free will is to not react to the process. How do I put this in words… As humans we have our detached thoughts where we split into observer and observed. The observer tends to be the logical entity breaking things apart and making permutations while the observed tends to be more connected to the being’s state, which means that it’s the entity that feels the emotions, the survival instinct and drives the observer to organise goals and objectives. I sorted my anxiety by looking at the sensation without the usual acceptance/rejection which results in the “I” (awareness?) getting entangled with those two entities. The sense of danger quickly dissipates by giving my full attention to the process, it takes power from emotional and the detached entities. Seeing the process instead of being the process. Idk it’s so hard to put it into words…

[@annakarl9989]

Hello 💞 Thank you very much for sharing 🎉💝. Was really enjoying it 🤗 👣🌅🗣️🌊💫✨🌛🌟☔🌬️💧🌧️🌈❄️

[@jamesdean8785]

Consciousness possibly being quantum based is the greatest leap of understanding since Darwin. If they are interlinked there could be a direct link to space/time and whatever is beyond our universe. Could be the biggest chance of reincarnation and even a form of heaven being a thing and I say that as a staunch atheist

[@michelederrico4196]

He should win the Noble prize

[@axle.student]

All very interesting. Uncertainty is the primary ingredient in all things. This allows for the emergence of complexity and stability that can persist. This is not something that is random in the common idea of random. It is a balance between certainty and uncertainty where both always remain, This allows for what we call free will or choice. It's all much more complicated than I say here. > Awareness and self awareness emerged in some of the earliest single cell life. This single cell awareness remains in complex life. Uncertainty always allows for choice. > AI can likely become genuinely self aware or even conscious as long as a few of the same fundamental principles required for the emergence of simple life are available. I won't say what that is though.

[@bizikimiz6003]

I call bullshit. Brownian motion does not turn off for a processor's particles. Every single statement here is pretty much similarly false. Even when he gets the answer right he is basing his conclusion on BS.

[@Thomas-gk42]

Indeed! That´s how unscientific babble works.

[@CabelCabelCabel]

Please make better audio production in the future :)

[@tvviewer4500]

The real question to ask a potentially conscious being is what is your take on bitcoin? If it says bitcoins is valuable you can assume it’s not conscious

[@beetweedledee]

Interesting.

[@nada13_08]

Read this as I overheard my co-workers talking about loosing all their investment funds to doge coin. What timing.

[@threestringsomg]

As david bowie loved to say....theres nothing without contrast

[@toddboothbee1361]

How can consciousness be an illusion? What we think it is might be, but it can't be in itself an illusion. Experience of red is real, even if the experience is the result of an illusion. The experience itself is not.

[@skhi7658]

Consciousness somehow doesn't fit into the picture for many reductionists. That's why they try to eliminate it by declaring consciousness to be an illusion. In order to explain away this , from their point of view inconsistent reality, these supposedly objective scientists are willing to accept the worst logical paradoxes. As supposedly empirical scientists, they even deny the empirical reality and their own experiences and motivations for action. Very worrying. There is something of an very, very strange ideological denial of reality about it.

[@colemanneilson5943]

It’s not an illusion in the sense of experience, it’s illusory in the sense of dimensionality, deceptive in that we’re not seeing the full picture

[@whalhard]

Is AI not software instead of hardware?

[@Մարգո-ե8ջ]

Thank you,very interesting idea about the Universal Consciousness. I hope, it will be clearer in future How ignorant of those,denying the consciousness. Such theories give allowance for people to go any vile thing with impunity, no consciousness = no blame. “ Animi vultus est “ ,Face is a mirror of the soul.

[@IdiotDoomSpiral69]

I'm not sure how it's ignorant to not agree to something that cannot be rationally justified as true, and I don't see how anyone demonstrates a kind of "universal consciousness" as true.

[@ArchimedesWoo]

🔥❤🔥

[@bitegoatie]

Consciousness is inseparable from life itself.

[@Canceledopoulos]

11:36 I disagree. It is a lousy best.

[@nicbarth3838]

So then make Neuromorphic chips for stochastic creativity

[@swapticsounds]

But can’t you have a virtual water Bassin with virtual molecules within the AI? The behavior could then be prompted by connecting it to a true-random-number-generator.

[@Tao_Tology]

Except that those 'virtual' artifacts are, really, a number of electronic bits either at 1 or 0. There isn't any actual molecule or structure, only a piece of software that can be set to treat various sequences of 1s and 0s _as if_ they were something.

[@swapticsounds]

@@Tao_Tology i think the question is not what they „really“ are but how they would behave on an emergent level, be it virtual or real.

[@piccadelly9360]

Consciousness is biological and the basis for life. All life is conscious

[@larfermor]

@piccadelly9360 I disagree because there is evidence that it continues once the organism, the biology has ceased. Consciousness is the souls essence

[@piccadelly9360]

@@larfermor True, but needs a biological body to be "alive". It is like the "software" of the body

[@larfermor]

@@piccadelly9360 I defo agree with you on that.

[@S1LLY_C0ST4_L0V3R]

The analogy he gives by comparing the rigid structure of silicon chips versus the stochastic flexibility of water is patently ridiculous. The stochasticity of AI is not in the hardware of the computer itself, but in the billions of 'synapses' formed within artifical neural networks.

[@stationary.universe.initiative]

Consciousness has no origin, it is eternal and eternity is now

[@IdiotDoomSpiral69]

Why would someone believe this?

[@thomasmeadows256]

❤

[@looseunit9180]

Stop these fricken ads

[@shiddy.]

I wonder why the brain is in the head instead of at the core of the body - does it need to be physically close to the eyes and ears? does it need to be at the top? I can see why it needs the skull, but why is the actual brain where it is?

[@seabeepirate]

Sure it took billions of years to evolve the first time, that doesn’t mean it will take billions of years every time. In fact I’d argue that the second time happened in exponentially less time because it wasn’t billions of years after that when two conscious creatures mated for the first time. It’s also foolish to think that we can’t build systems more advanced than a past evolution since our creations are part of our own evolution and evolution will go on. Brownian motion occurs in all molecules as far as I know so water isn’t special in the fact that it moves around. There’s also cosmic rays to consider since we’re being bombarded by radiation from space that could account for seemingly random firings of neurons. Water waves differently from silicon but our silicon systems can be distributed over larger areas increasing the chance of “random” behavior. Anything that waves can be transformed into a comparable system even the bound molecules of silicon bs the relatively wobbly water molecules. He’s clearly knowledgeable on some profound topics but he’s ventured off the path of science and into the realm of mysticism.

[@user-Black-Star]

Thank you so so much for this video! My thoughts are going in this way: Take an octopus. He is older than we humans, or? WE are thinking we are so intelligent.. Is it really in this way? An animal takes only this what he is needing to stay alive. And we humans? WE are stealing like thiefes from the nature. This isn't ying yang anymore.. So the system of ying Yang want to stabilisice IT and If it's needful deleading the part which disturbs the most. I am thinking in the same way that bacteriums ( and virus' perhaps(?) ) are the most danger for mankind. The whole system could live and exsist without us. Such a complex system as a body from a human can throw or hit down with one small thing: a bacterium. Even the animals are striking back in natural areas where humans took too many away.. Like monkeys, stolen a baby, murdered it, and ate it. Or Sparks arecoming in areas from the SEA where they never were in farmer times, because the oceans are almost empty and eating now humans, whatelse? Or asking the question: What do you want here, you are killer.., disappear suddenly!!! For me IS the black mole one of the most dangerous bacteriums. It's hidden in our food If you don't cook it hot enough. If in legumes or meat.. I need Not to explain what's going on than or? A Meningitis IS growing INSIDE the body. And If someone takes penicillin or in this way, he has no chance anymore to stay alive. My theory. The whole earth could exist without us.. Time to change our habits!! And what's about KI?.. an other possibility to making us to slaves and taking us in chaines, before they press the button for deleading. Hope, you can follow my thoughts. And my further hope is that i can change something with my statement here. Thinking over please. And let us change something. Have a nice day and thank you for reading this. 💐

[@AndreaLongoni-z9t]

The B.Q. age Before Quantistic

[@rustycalvera977]

how does the immune system know when an evolved immune cells works....this is most interesting

[@Leo-tf3rw]

My question here is armed with what he is saying, does it provides ground for veganism?

[@Paulus_Brent]

Only unconscious people could claim that humans are not conscious.

[@annieshedden1245]

institute of art and woo

[@taihastings3097]

"Animal" from ANIMA....meaning SOUL in Latin. It must have been accepted that animals had a "mind" as this and "soul" both derive from the same root ANIMA

[@georgesos]

Word salad meaning nothing. jumps from one scale to another without ever providing answers. just arguing others doesn't make you a new theory. noone objects the cats are conscious, in fact all living organisms are in one way or the other. he objects to disorder producing order but he suggests exactly the same thing. crackpot might be harsh but.....

[@donohirst]

He's having a conversation. Jeez, what do people want? Would you believe it if he did some maths and had all the right props? At least he's musing on important stuff, as opposed to millions of grants paying for research of minutiae or irrelevance....

[@nibas4920]

@@georgesos glad to read I’m not the only one. I’m still trying to find a common thread here

[@piccadelly9360]

You are right, you are just afraid to say that "All living organisms have consciousness"

[@Arunava_Gupta]

Consciousness is NOT biological. It's so glaringly evident! There is absolutely NO WAY the neurons in the brain can give rise to a conscious personality. The neurons convey the sense-data and without a CONSCIOUS SENSER, subjective experience can never come about. And as the brain is all-neuronal, such a conscious senser would necessarily have to be different from the brain. And as the brain is the acme of all material organization therefore this conscious senser would have to be also IMMATERIAL. Therefore it's an immaterial conscious senser (and doer) CONNECTED to the brain that's the fount of all subjective conscious experience.

[@skhi7658]

I think that is a mistake. Reality, or rather nature, knows no faculties or separating dualities. What we find are not " stupid dead things" on one side and an "invisible intelligent spirit" on the other. Everything we perceive , observe or know is based on one single fact, namely permanent physical interactions in a process. biology (life), information processing in the nervous system and brain ( thinking ) , sensory registration ( perception) and social exchange (actions based on feelings and intentions ) are no exception here. The only logical consequence of this state of affairs , is that every physical interaction as mutual registration is already a rudimentary form of perception and Information processing and thus proto -consciousness. Otherwise it would be impossible to explain how action and reaction ,let alone differentiated actions and reactions , actually come about in an physical interaction. Consciousness did not suddenly fall from the sky or be a random emergent property out of nowhere. Reality is not a Harry Potter movie. Every physical interaction is a registration. Every registration is a proto - perception. Every proto - perception followed by a reaction. Every reaction is a simple information processing . Every simple information processing through mutual registration and corresponding reaction is a rudimentary manner of experiences . Every kind of simple experiece ( encounter, contact ) is proto -consciousness .

[@Muff_Master]

I’m sure a good argument can be made that we aren’t truly conscious yet. We’re limited by our language. I don’t think we can define consciousness and would not recognize true, absolute consciousness. I think it would overwhelm humans to experience it and we would misunderstand it if we observed it. True consciousness would be something that, for lack of a better term, a “god” would have. Just my thoughts on the topic.

[@luchesartomov]

Here, Denis Noble makes a distinction between consciousness and self-awareness and self-reflection. These two are very limited among species

[@Maltholomucus-st1ii]

"I don't think we can reasonably deny our consciousness..." Well it wouldn't be much of an illusion if you could ey

[@BaritoneUkeBeast4Life]

The universe and everything in it is merely an expression of Awareness/Consciousness. All objects and forms are created out of this Awareness/Consciousness. We are this pure Awareness/Consciousness and have identified with the form of our bodies/minds and ONLY witness and observe what the body/mind does. We are not the thinker, we witness the thoughts come and go, we are not the Doer, we don't move the body, the body moves of it's own accord. Everything is involuntary, we observe the mind thinking and believing that it is in control of the body. We are like an infant in the backseat of a car. The car would be like our body and the driver of the car would be like our mind. We are not in control, we are the silent observer in the background, hidden even from ourselves, being taken for a ride and identifying with the mind that thinks it is a person doing things. There are only a few things that are absolute truths. You exist, it is eternally Now, and you are eternally Here. All else is nonsense.

[@RJD2809]

Joe Biden?......

[@Thomas-gk42]

😁

[@MrPokerblot]

So I suppose a T1000 or a micro chips in a Mercury retrograde system could be a better bet for conscious AI.

[@richardsaylor6214]

Go all the way. Animals are conscious. The universe is conscious. LEARN HOW TO LISTEN TO ALL IDEAS! IT'S ALL CONNECTED. INTERCONNECTED

[@KhelderB]

His lips move so little for the amount of expression he has in his voice.