Theistic Vs Atheistic Morality And God | Aaron-WI | The Atheist Experience 24.33

[@pascalsimioli6777]

Aaron in a nutshell: I like morality, I fear mortality. Therefore God.

[@brucebaker810]

Noice.

[@krishpatel3156]

Theism is nothing but the fear/comfort factor in our minds acting irrationally.

[@shanewilson7994]

Secular humanism covers morality nicely and far better than the Bible.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

You just haven't been pooped on by the right unicorn.

[@steveyuhas9278]

Helps that it actually covers morality unlike the bibble. It's just a list of some stuff you're supposed to do, some good, most bad, lots that have nothing to do with morality lol.

[@franciscosustek7249]

Buybull is the manual for a mind control business...wanna a private jet?...open a church

[@mads2357]

"I need this book as foundation for right and wrong. I will however not use it in any way to determine right or wrong" I'm confused by this guy...

[@thomasmurrell7781]

You don't need this book for anything, it's nonsense

[@bdpickett]

Why? Literally every Christian is like this to some extent or other.

[@Phreemunny]

Well...that was my position for about two weeks before I became an atheist.

[@mattsandvig7868]

It's usually a defense mechanism. Like this guy said himself, he feels he NEEDS some sort of (external) grounding. It doesn't matter that he ultimately applies his own moral principles, because he feels as though he needs something to hold up and claim as his basis. It's a similar phenomenon to how those who leave Christianity sometimes go through a period of weak theism before moving to atheism. Being able to point to something else just feels more solid to us than pointing to ourselves.

[@shannontaylor1849]

That's why they say all religion is ultimately a religion of 1.

[@FourDeuce01]

Aaron: "I became an atheist, but I couldn't find any grounding for morality." If you expect atheism to give you a grounding in morality, you never understood what atheism means. :/

[@Paranitis]

It's because people who say that, are full of shit. They seem misguidedly to believe atheism to be a religion that is opposed to other religions (which is most religions).

[@djixi98]

The "my concept of god says your concept of god sucks" quote reminds me of the conversation I had with a friend of mine: "I feel that the soul exists" "And I feel that you're wrong. What now?" Our friend, who is also a theist, died laughing.

[@horsepowerenthusiast6933]

If you need an ancient book to have morality, then you're part of the problem.

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Here's a scenerio Math has existed for thousands of years but when I understood math I discovered it. Bro, you believe because you understand what morality is does not mean that you discovered it. You atheists are not smart enough to realize that the biblical definition of morality is the corner stone on how we think today! Where do you think you LEARNED what moralit? Yes, maybe your parents but then you have to think where did they adopt their morality from! Where do you think America got it's laws from? Do not kill, do not steel etc etc?

[@BrickBuilder50]

My parents taught me to respect adults, common sense and the difference between right and wrong. That’s all you need to know and that covers absolutely everything anything other than that as far as I’m concerned, just brainwashing.

[@powbobs]

@@BrickBuilder50 Everyone has their own version of common sense.

[@TheHgh12]

Jim is so great! He’s so well spoken and can understand and reply to the callers so quickly.

[@whispersmith]

And he has a beautiful voice

[@MizterMissile]

Yes, I seriously adore Jim. He makes my life so damn happy!

[@Fluffykeith]

If you accept the instructions from a book on how to behave, you’re not making moral decisions or judgments. You’re just doing what the book tells you rather than thinking your way through. In essence your abrogating your moral responsibility in favour of “just following orders”.

[@komsomolzenbolzen6747]

On the other hand, blood for the blood god?

[@Fluffykeith]

@@komsomolzenbolzen6747 Oh, absolutely. And for the Khorne Flakes.

[@komsomolzenbolzen6747]

@@Fluffykeith Skulls? Khorn Dogs?

[@Fluffykeith]

@@komsomolzenbolzen6747 Got to keep your strength up

[@BillRevis]

@Black Sun Obelisk Take your meds

[@phrozenwun]

"I cherry pick a popular document to prop up my position", SMH

[@Stasiaflonase]

Aaron “The wheel in my brain goes round and round, round and round, round and round. “ A perfect circle.

[@Ole_CornPop]

Even Dale Earnhardt himself would be impressed on how good he can go around in circles. 😂

[@Digital_Acid]

"A man chooses. A slave obeys." -Andrew Ryan

[@aarononeal201]

BioShock reference? ✔

[@bluedragonfly8139]

I mean, given that he intentionally manipulated his brainwashed son into murder, I don't think he actually understood that phrase.

[@chriskelly3481]

GREAT reference!!! ❤👍👍👍🤣

[@themanwithnoname1839]

Yea, he CHOSE, and the slave obeyed..... You just reinforced the point......​@@bluedragonfly8139

[@marigi2013]

“My concept of god says your concept of god is shit.” -Matt Fucking hilarious.

[@MunkyDrag0n]

Aaron is a perfect example of who I'd call a "cookie cutter Christian."

[@Epsylon21]

I wish he was, I think he could be back on his way to atheism but not getting my hopes up. Most cookie cutter christians believe all the bible is perfect and still try to justify it in weird contexts

[@tinyfroghag]

I think “lukewarm christian” would be far more accurate. He’s far from cookie cutter.

[@takoja507]

Nah he is just like any other christian, "cherry picker"!

[@Seele2015au]

@@takoja507 I have some issues with the term "cherry-picker" Christian. Think about this: say you find a recipe for bolognaise sauce, but you don't like ground beef so you put in cauliflower in its place. You don't like tomato either, so you put in grape jelly instead, and it goes on. What you end up with is something you created with no resemblance to bolognaise sauce, but you still call it bolognaise sauce just because you started out with the bolognaise sauce recipe sheet. Same deal here: Aaron, like countless self-identified "Christians", started with the Bible (or their preachers' descriptions of it), but every time he changes the Bible and the God described in it, he is changing the story, and creating his own version of God. And still calling himself a Christian for having started with the Bible.

[@takoja507]

Seele2015au doesn't matter. It's still cherry picking as in you pick the tastiest and ripest cherries for you to eat and enjoy. It's pretty accurate term for any religous person actually. And yes if you read a receipt and say I don't like that in it, you are cherry picking unless you are allergic to certain food items in the receipt and you have to change it because of that but no one is allergic to their religion. People just pick and choose what they like and twist and turn the rest.

[@tuomassaarinen]

It's insane how religious people think. Or more like how they don't think.

[@theresawilliams4296]

@Black Sun Obelisk You have just stated that your god is real and you have proof. Well I for one would love to see this proof you have.

[@rb2321]

@Black Sun Obelisk ooooh proof ?! I'm ready for it, when is the proof gonna be listed, explained, shown ?? I'll wait .....

[@rb2321]

@Bills Extremist and what does that mean, atheist experience blocks his videos ?? Couldn't he call them ?

[@Stalicone]

If you really need a “moral authority”, there are a host of them available that have nothing whatsoever to do with deities. You can use “group consensus”, secular law, and a whole bevy of excellent philosophers like Spinoza. But when it comes down to it, you are still going to pick and choose what you agree with and discard what you don’t. So, in the end, each of us is our own moral authority.

[@XavierCarter9129]

This is caller just bonkers. It’s calls like this that makes me so much appreciate being free from indoctrination!!

[@steelajax7925]

"Jim you're not supposed to say that live on the air" LMAO

[@haydincrane5917]

What did he even say. I didnt catch it

[@AlexS-hw4if]

@@haydincrane5917 He called Matt a lizard person

[@Elitematt74]

7:02 probably because youtube would add a conspiracy warning on the video

[@CaptainOnePocket]

I couldn't tell if he was serious or joking about not saying it on the air.

[@Elitematt74]

@@CaptainOnePocket seemed genuine, they didnt laugh and matt actually cut jim off before he could finish, like it was something they've spoken about before

[@fmn2628]

He belongs to the Church of Christian Cherrypicking a major denomination these days.

[@40pianos]

Morality was born when humans recognized the benefits of living in groups. It made them less susceptible to death from wild animals or gave them a fighting chance in the event of an attack by a hostile tribe. Food could be produced in greater amounts. But living in groups required each individual sacrifice a certain amount of personal autonomy. And while those primitive societies may have tied some of those sacrifices to pagan gods but morality was eminently pragmatic.

[@ringo666]

Thank you, I've been making this point for years. Well said.

[@HunnidTheTrapper02]

Perfect

[@stevepierce6467]

Not just the benefits but the obligations. Oh, sorry, I didn't read far enough. --- I find what's happening today with christians/libertarians is a total blind focus on "freedom" without any recognition of the sacrifices of personal autonomy required for living in a society. It is almost as if they are abandoning the morality they so strongly proclaim.

[@WCM1945]

You nailed with his desire for a socially acceptable _label_ he can paste on his forehead.

[@Epsylon21]

This is what an indoctrinated person who is trying to break through sounds like, he definitely got some tough love here.

[@emmyb115]

I bet he is on the journey to letting go

[@emmyb115]

Aaron knows. He does. It causes him pain. He is reachable. I think atheists are incredibly well suited to address people like this. People just hanging on to a framework that no longer makes sense to them, for comfort. He literally asked for help framing morality within an atheist worldview. He is reachable. Matt gave him tough love. I hope he internalized this conversation.

[@paulvonblerk9365]

That was wicked Matt but frigging awesome!!!!!!! Gives a new meaning to the phrase 'being served'

[@buffalohead4347]

This guy’s pastor for sure wears sandals and a Hawaiian shirt to give his sermons.

[@gid519]

My questions would be, why does he need god to be moral. And go down that line. I totally feel Aaron. He is indoctrinated and can't find his way out. So, being hard on him won't help at all. Also, would've asked how he found his way back to Theism from Atheism. I can believe someone being raised as an Atheist and becoming a Christian down the line but for someone who was raised as an Christian, becoming an Atheist and reverting, my claim, you were never an atheist. It's like suddenly believing in Santa at 34 years old. My best guess is that his faith wavered and he got scared. It happens to most atheist several times before they finally become an atheist. If aaron is reading this, you should call into Talk Heathen. AE is more of a debate show and Talk Heathen is more of a discussion.

[@pascalsimioli6777]

I hoped they'd go for the "how many people kill while you were an atheist? 0? Thought so"

[@gid519]

@@pascalsimioli6777 Exactly, he needs to be informed how the God equation is not needed to be moral. But it has to be done slowly and carefully so he won't get defensive as he did here.

[@pascalsimioli6777]

@@gid519 You and I stated the same opinion: we both think Talk Heathen would've handled this caller more appropriately. I also added that to me it sounds like Aaron is screaming "I find discomfort with the fact I can't put everything in a box, so here's a label". At least he was honest enough to admit he was being very contraddictory

[@johnlopperman2161]

In so many cases, more than admitted or acknowledged, or even ever aware, it's simply become a habit... the (social) path of least resistance in a society of widespread general religiosity of all shapes & sides.

[@jpapan1]

2:30 "If you don't believe everything in the bible, what is your criteria for determining what things in the bible you're going to believe and what you're not gonna believe" -Dillahunty

[@Awol991]

A true believer has no morals. If they "hear" their God tell them to do something they will do it.

[@unkaumanguy1439]

How can someone say that they are a Christian but reject sections of the holy book upon which the religion is based? How can they not see the problem with this? The fact that there are so many different types of Christianity is further evidence that this is a false religion.

[@DadeMurphy666]

23:48 "please grow up"

[@PapaWheelie380]

Counter-argument to the Pascal's Wager question to give back to the Christians - What if you're RIGHT, and when being judged, God tells you that you ate too much shellfish, wore cloth of 2+ fabrics, didn't own enough slaves, stone your neighbors who worked on the Sabbath, or burned ANY witches? Too bad, it's Hell for you! ! ! ! !

[@dj33036]

I feel this guy is really hurting on the inside. He really thinks he needs something or someone to tell him how to live. If christianity tells you, you need to believe in this, and this, and this in order to make it to heaven, then he's not going to make it.

[@emmyb115]

I know...I got that impression as well.

[@vidfreak56]

My morality comes from the same place everyones does. Knowledge of pleasure and pain. A healthy sense of sympathy and empathy. And the rules that have come from all of those things as they've played out in a complex manner all throughout history and in every day of my life.

[@generaltruefocus7694]

Listening to Aron is like : Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream. ...ad infinitum.

[@ForumCat]

Dam! I checked KZbin for “unicorns pooping ice cream”. It’s a thing! Thanks to Matt I now know about a “squatty potty”. Now I feel delighted and traumatised in equal measure. 😱

[@guytheincognito4186]

Morality is implicitly outwards facing, it's the consideration of ones actions and behavioral consequences on a scale bigger than oneself. Defining how one ought to act in relation to others, rather than short sighted concerns and outcomes for oneself..

[@VictorValiant24]

Jim Barrows OWNED on this. One of my favorite calls... Cheers AXP

[@Jas0nAnders0n]

Matt is becoming pretty hardcore with age. This was a great example of his intellectual prowess.

[@rickkernell2486]

I don't know how he keeps his head at all. He deals with the same lack of logic and reasoning with each call that he takes. I couldn't do it...

[@dink0011]

Maintaining or furthering of our species, and the golden rule. That's all we need

[@michaelhall2709]

Aaron’s moral confusion reminds me of something that actor Martin Sheen said in an interview with Rolling Stone magazine many years ago: “I’m one of those guilty Catholics - I may not believe in God, but I’m absolutely sure that Mary was His mother.” The difference was that Sheen was speaking ironically.

[@artistjoh]

What is the difference between killing an animal for food and killing a plant for food? If we go down that rabbit hole there is no way to morally justify staying alive. But then killing oneself has its own moral issues. Congratulations, the whole idea of absolute morality requires we freeze time and motion as that is the only way to live a moral life. Why do so many people appear to have difficulty with the idea that morality is situational, and evolutionary? The foundation for almost all modern concepts of morality is found in the philosophers of the enlightenment. Morality as defined by scriptural sources is a disgustingly brutal and primitive way of life that the majority of people reject as reasonable. We have moved on from scriptures in this regard. Unfortunately, theists tend to adopt secular morality and humanism, and then claim that it came from god. It is dishonest and self serving.

[@monkeytron5061]

He was genuinely calling in for help. He was confused. I felt sorry for him.

[@tylerdurden6917]

Yea me too however it was clear that he wasn’t gonna change his mind and after his beliefs were challenged he ends up being a dishonest person, with not only to the hosts but to himself. He was unable to reconcile that reality

[@ejflor1313]

It was clear after five minutes that he wasn’t genuine.

[@houstonpromotion]

I wish they had episodes in Spanish translations to show my parents

[@roybarrows9733]

16:40 ish "Murdering a human is going to cause a lot more grief than murdering an animal" Not to the animal or the animal's family. Have you never seen a mother mammal grieving the loss of her baby, or her baby grieving the loss of his/her mother?

[@alexanderrivas2762]

Matt got destroyed by Alex O Connor and its a touchy subject now

[@roybarrows9733]

@@alexanderrivas2762 Care to share a link to that video?

[@bikeshop2002]

The argument that killing a human causes more suffering than killing a non-human animal seems really invalid to me. And the "unless it's a pet" is even worse. It's like they don't realize that other animals can feel things or experience suffering or distress, or that living things other than humans matter in any way. I usually agree wholeheartedly with the hosts but not this time.

[@hiddescherphof6064]

Im following a course on Culture and Economics, where something similar to Jim and Matt's arguments came up. In case anyone wants to know about it, here goes. Social interactions only work if the person engaging the interaction expects a the other person to respond in a certain way. For example, if I go into a shop and give the cashier a 100 dollar bill, I expect to walk out with 100 dollars worth of items. If I walk out with more, I expect to be considered a thief, and to possibly face some sort of penalty. Though thieving is clearly immoral, there is strictly speaking nothing wrong with carrying items out of a building. The only reason we consider it wrong, is because actions like that occurring regularly will erode the trust we need for our societies to function properly. After all, humans have a limited amount of social contacts. I believe that number is somewhere in the 50-200 range, but regardless it's too small for pretty much any modern society.

[@destronia123]

Aaron: I want to claim a moral high ground so everyone else has to follow my -- I mean my god's rules of conduct.

[@petermirtitsch1235]

Great point from Jim about killing pets vs killing animals generally as opposed to killing humans.

[@cyansloth1763]

The unicorn 🦄 shooting ice cream 🍦 from its bum in the thumbnail brought me here ;)

[@Ghutom]

@Jimbus Rift - I am always disappointed by the lack of ice cream, regardless of the situation, circumstance, or amount of ice cream. 🍦

[@AndyCampbellMusic]

Morality is an inevitable consequence of evolutionary empathy which is in turn, is an inevitable consequence, of virtually every living thing trying not to die. Dying is not desirable/bad/wrong. Living is desirable/good/right. That is the root of all morality. Various versions of it, are clearly observable in different species, from simple and basic to complex and highly nuanced.

[@OllieandCompany]

you can boil everything down to Respect. Not complicated.

[@joerivera8720]

Are you sure you don't believe in a God?

[@Quinn37]

If you use your reason to determine which things in the Bible are moral, you're using your reason to determine morality.

[@robertsmith16286]

I try to treat others the way I want to be treated. That is my morality.

[@rickkernell2486]

That has a lot of pit falls, though. Some would like to be treated in strange ways. After all, you are dealing with humans and humans are capable of some bizarre stuff...

[@robertsmith16286]

@@rickkernell2486 well, luckily for myself, I haven’t any resemblance to those humans you speak of.😀😁

[@rickkernell2486]

@@robertsmith16286 Good.

[@elmolewis9123]

Matt for the checkmate.

[@pascalsimioli6777]

I think this caller would've been better dealt from Talk Heathen: Aaron sounds really confused and contraddictory and he could've used some gentle touch. To me it sounded like he was screaming "I can't stand that things aren't easy to grasp and put in a box"

[@jpapan1]

Good points by Matt around 12:00

[@88MIMIC]

Give that ice cream pooping unicorn a laxative and you've got yourselves a milkshake.

[@blanktester]

I don't know how helpful the hosts were this time. This guy sounds really confused and scared that he's going to be rudderless without a god, but he's not really aware that he's already in the water. Matt really gave him the business when he seemed totally lost. I just wanna hug him. :(

[@GSP-76]

I've seen Matt do this multiple times and thought it was callous and wrong...but he's just bringing to light what is already happening in the caller's life. The caller knows he doesn't need the Bible not is he using it to define his sense of morality...Aaron called back too so it wasn't in vain.

[@blanktester]

@@GSP-76 That he called back later relieves me. I'm worried that maybe others won't be so lucky but it's good that Aaron got back on track. I wonder if he's ever looked through the comments here.

[@johnnyaraujo3513]

Very good check mate

[@cjalisyas]

Dont believe “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Don't even believe that i say. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.” Buddha quotes (Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.)

[@waves_under_stars]

I don't think he's dishonest, he sounds more confused than dishonest

[@markregula8746]

Jim at 8:40ish tries to explain morality at the societal level. I've heard Matt do this on a debate and I believe he got bogged down. Morality is at the individual level. The individual has the "pursuit of life, liberty, happiness. The individual is "the essential precondition of human flourishing ". One person's desires or needs doesn't impose a moral duty upon another individual. The societal morality is just a collection of all the individual actions.

[@CyeOutsider]

"I agree with that, but..." "I agree with that, but..." "I agree with that, but..." "I agree with that, but..."

[@trixieofthetrade7494]

How’s about we add a new rule: NO DISAGREEMENT ALLOWED?

[@marceatslorries5600]

I’d love to know what this fella did subsequent to this call. I feel like he was nearly there, and it would only take listening back to this call to tip him over the edge into rationality. He was backed up against a wall and, quite naturally, he went with the fight response. Anyone know if he ever called back?

[@GSP-76]

He sounds very much like other callers I've listened to...I'm almost sure he's called back. There has been many that have called multiple times and then become Atheists so it's not out of the norm.

[@louisroque157]

These people that call are so entertaining; just listening to the way they think makes me wonder how they can walk and breathe at the same time 🤣

[@robsengahay5614]

Interesting that the value of an animal’s suffering is limited to the value placed on its life by a human so harming a pet owned by a human as a pet = bad, harming an animal owned by a human as livestock = not a problem. Even thinking atheists are the victims of cognitive dissonance that they would criticise if it came from the mouth of a theist.

[@L_o_c_a_l_G_u_y]

"Please grow up." Being honest is being kind.

[@brentmiller3951]

I just got a double cheese burger for Aaron

[@kleptiic1753]

How does one know that killing an animal doesn’t cause grief among other animals?

[@lonelyislander8760]

English is not my first language but, i'm curious when Matt said to Jim "You're not allowed to say that while we're on air." What does that mean?

[@dr.leeaberle3606]

Ok lizard people, where can I get one of the ice cream pooping unicorns. Take my money.

[@TheWuschi]

Matt has gone through an interesting development in all the years I am a dedicated follower: from ultra-ranty to caller-cuddling - and now back to Matt the Callerslayer? - I surely enjoy his eloquent battlefield furor (the more, if the callers are not sheepish victims like this one) - but is this really the expression of striving for general happiness? - Well, maybe Matt really increases the happiness of us blood-thirsty audience, but surely not the caller's... everything a question of statistics?

[@SpaceOrbisGaming]

Theists pick what parts they will view as true and this caller is a great proof of that fact. He is picking what parts he likes and if the bible has a view he disagrees with he overlooks it. So he may as well just make his own bible. At least that way he is using all of it and not parts like he was doing here.

[@alejors1802]

Can you help me understand something? It’s off topic from the religious one. Min 7:03 Jim says something which I think it’s joke and Matt says he shouldn’t say that.. but i completely missed it. Could you tell me what it is that that missed?

[@CaptainOnePocket]

I think he might get pulled off KZbin for mentioning certain conspiracy theories.

[@UngoogleableMan]

Jim joked that Matt was a lizard person and they had a chuckle over idiots who actually believe that there are lizard people.

[@t4705mb6]

We don't need spooky ghosts with super powers to teach us morality. Creationists make this mistake constantly. We don't need an invisible friend bestowing our rights on us either. Those rights are constant and NATURAL --- *inherent!*

[@juanpabloduarte2001]

How do you call on the show?

[@salserokorsou]

Yeah about that negative impact about killing animals, ask the animals how they feel about it.

[@Kiuman]

Sublime!

[@johnlopperman2161]

I really, ( the rare times I actually even consider it on my own) week sorry for the religionist in life, as whatever their belief, its main element is filled overflowing with restrictions and that that is "sinful"/forbidden. As an 87 year old always atheist, the world and life is my oyster, the only limitation is my own limit. The religious believer has little but limits.

[@sparki9085]

"I believe in a god because I don't want to have to describe what my positions are, even though I disagree with the label Im using" How the he'll does this prove god? How is that even supposed to prove god?

[@alexanderhagen287]

This was a goddamned beat down.

[@WunHungLo99]

If everyone went around lopping others heads off, eventually, there would be no human species. Its not complicated. It's better to be alive than not, better healthy than unwell, better happy than sad. Our beliefs inform our actions, our actions have consequences so... Oh I'm quoting Matt.

[@davydtaylor4151]

There’s a reason why well-being is used and not happiness. Happiness is pretty superficial for the long term.

[@IYPITWL]

I chose Lord of the Rings as the book I base my morality off of!

[@mischarowe]

There is no such thing as an atheistic morality. First red flag that this guy has been listening to apologists.

[@alku8966]

Exodus 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. Judges 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech: 1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him. 1 Samuel 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. 1 Samuel 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well. 1 Samuel 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him. 1 Samuel 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand. 1 Samuel 19:9 And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand. 1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. Jeremiah 19:9 9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend in the siege and straitness, wherewith their enemies, and they that seek their lives, shall straiten them. Deuteronomy 32:42 42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy. 2 Chronicles 21:14-15 14 Behold, with a great plague will the Lord smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: 15 And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day. Malachi 2:3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces. Is this your definition of holy morality?

[@mischarowe]

@@alku8966 You're just wasting your [rhetorical] breath. Nobody on here's stupid enough to blindly follow that.

[@mischarowe]

@LuthAMF That's not a morality. That's just a "no" to "do you believe in any gods". It says jack shit about one's character.

[@allistairkumaran3582]

@@alku8966 do you guys ever actually engage with people or do you just quote the none sense book and run away? Is it fear or arrogance?

[@glenhill9884]

Aaron: I became an atheist, then switched back to Christian JUST BECAUSE I COULDN'T FIND A BASIS FOR MORALITY. Excuse me, you became UNCONVINCED of the existence of God, then said, oh, wait, there is only because you think God has a moral code to follow? YOU WERE UNCONVINCED OF HIS EXISTENCE, not his moral code! Your reasoning is so muddled. What the hell are you really saying here?

[@Onganana]

He just needs to step out of Christianity for a month to experience "normal". He will understand morality gradually within that month.

[@Onganana]

Black Sun Obelisk I await this good news to be announced at James Randi Foundation upon your winning of 1 million dollars. Good luck 👍

[@heavymeddle28]

But the bible says gaysex and drugs is OK. "if a man lies with another man they shall be stoned" 😊

[@heavymeddle28]

@@godslion2878 here we go again...

[@deanhunt2691]

I would love to use that arguement in court if i am ever bust again for weed..."your honour i am gay and it says in the bible i must be stoned. I am only doing what the bible tells me to". !

[@curtyerg]

@@deanhunt2691 , and then the judge says "ok, take him out and stone him"... just kidding. This is a very humorous take on this verse. Your comment makes me laugh!

[@ericscaillet2232]

@@heavymeddle28 yep,however in my opinion I do not like it and would not partake in it,do not need a book to let me know that and have a penalty attached to a private personal choice.

[@heavymeddle28]

@@ericscaillet2232 yea agreed. I really don't give a rats what or who turns people on. But... God seems to think a lot about kinky things. Otherwise he wouldn't be so damn hysterical about it. I think he's afraid he might like it😜

[@martir.7653]

IMO caller did not say that their morality is superior, but wanted a discussion about how to base one's morality. But Matt keeps shutting off all discussion. Of course it's up to Matt how to run his show but this could have been a far more interesting conversation than it was.

[@UngoogleableMan]

He wants a discussion on how to base ones morality. And that was explained to him several times with many different examples. What are you even talking about?

[@alejandroalonso6660]

So, an animal has to have be loved by a human in order for it to matter? How are you more important than any other living species? As far as I know you can be healthy without harming animals, so what's the problem here? Remember, humans are an evolving species and its time to let go of primitive behaviors.

[@andybeans5790]

Why do you despise non-animals? All life tries to survive, and reacts to negative stimuli, why do you think that animals have more right to exist than the majority of life on the planet? You're just a yeast murdering bigot!

[@alejandroalonso6660]

Wow

[@loodlebop]

This guy has the same version of morality as almost everyone but wants to call it god guided because it feels more comfortable to say it's what God decides, rather than have to question what you think and why and have to defend your position when it's easier to say Christian. Especially when you're not convinced there's a good because I'm not convinced that he is convinced there is .

[@liamvosu3223]

I just thought of something. What if Pastor Steven Anderson called the Atheist Experience? Imagine that 🤣😂

[@robertlewis9132]

Mankind created various religions as ways to enforce "morality". Smarter humans realized these types of stories presented as "realities" could foster the burgeoning masse's ability to get along in societal settings.

[@jamimarshall1012]

Jim is great and all, we all love Jim. But is it just me or does he talk a little to much sometimes ?

[@Gwaithmir]

The caller needs to read some books on Humanism and Eupraxophy.

[@jordangonzales2212]

I agree with Matt. If there is a god, I don't get my morality from God. I get it from myself. I don't care about some commandments from a book written mostly by anonymous people. You'd have to be stupid to believe a book like that. Morality is based on logic and empathy, which came from natural evolution. (Evolution doesn't have a goal. It's just life adapting to the environment. We evolved as a social species. And life naturally arose from non-life.) Empathy is understanding how somebody else feels. We all want to be happy, so we try to make others happy.

[@ImGoingSupersonic]

AYE AYE RON

[@bobwilson3980]

What does his Bible say about eating meat or frying blood

[@RobBates]

Atheist morality, and I would argue human morality, isn't random or arbitrary. It is based on logic. Unfortunately, humans are imperfect logicians, so we don't always come to proper conclusions, but we are attempting to logically protect ourselves. While it's easy to use examples like murder, let's use something far less severe like littering. If you litter, someone could see you and then reprimand, shun, or cause you harm. Now let's assume you are 100% sure no one will see you. So why would an atheist not litter? Well, even if you don't get caught, many people will see the litter. Seeing the litter will normalize it in their minds. That normalization will lead to a subset of them using the litter they've seen as an excuse for them to then litter themselves. This positive feedback loop leads to more litter, making it more likely that litter will be in an area that affects you personally and you object to. Morality is very logical. We want things and we want to avoid things, and getting what we want requires reciprocity to make the outcomes we want more likely. This is true of the negative aspects of life, like violence, theft, and even litter, but it's also true of the positive aspects of life like helping others, collaborative work, and even love.

[@vidfreak56]

If a bear kills a hunter because the bear is trying to protect its child is the bear evil?

[@sunzi42]

A classic example of somebody who "reads between the lines and ignore the lines" (qoute by Aron Ra).

[@Cellidor]

The problem with moral claims in the bible is that they're written so cut-and-dry. It's black and white, very often with little room for exceptions (outside of the times it will contradict itself, but hey). Trouble is, that's... not how morality works. Morality is not cut and dry, it's a very complex and nuanced thing. For one, it's all entirely subjective at its core, and even if you look for objective answers _within_ that subjective framework, it's rare to find _any_ moral claim that doesn't have at least a _few_ examples of exceptions to the rule.

[@matryxgeounlymyted56quarde9]

Proof.?. .(＊￣︶￣＊).

[@Cellidor]

@@matryxgeounlymyted56quarde9 In regards to what?