THE Mystery Of The CRASHED BULL RC JET Solved

[@thelightersideofrc]

Feels great to have the conclusion! Thanks for watching!

[@thelightersideofrc]

Haha. I’m the problem solver now!😂😂

[@wearemany73]

@@thelightersideofrc If the cap fits Johnathan. 😄

[@savethehumans7460]

Thanks for the diligent work and share.

[@michaelpivola3rd195]

​@@thelightersideofrc so, I have 2 helicopters I lost the remotes. Is there an inexpensive controller that is adaptable to use these symrna

[@GaryBaird.Photography]

I'm glad you found the problem. You've flown long enough to know that it was not 'Pilot Error' and so became ruthless in determining the cause. Also, at the cost of these aircraft you can't just sluff it off as a mere one time glitch. To find the problem is paramount and you did a great job.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Gary. I'm glad you get it. most dont!

[@DidierO]

Happy you found the problem. My telemetrie data will be recording when I hit the turbine start switch and recording stops when I switch of the turbine. This way you have all the records between starting the turbine and shut down

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks! It was a satisfying conclusion.

[@gogianyee5002]

Hey Jon. I’m glad you figured out the source of the problem to be the lighting controller that is generating the interference and having it too close to the Vspeak sensor. Great troubleshooting! For us that fly ELECTRIC Powered aircraft, we also have to be careful of keeping the ESC and and BEC’s away from the receiver as they also generate electrical interference. Fly on!

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Gogian. Nice to have closure on it!

[@michaelpivola3rd195]

Funny,our kitchen cabinets interfere with my rc wifi drone indoors

[@irwinwka]

Great to resolve the issue causing the crash. So often in the past something happens and a plane crashes without being able to determine the real cause. Our radios get exponentially better each year it seems, matching the complexity of the models. Great videos

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you. Yes! Nice to have closure on this!

[@Edgecrusher28]

Easily the worst part of a crash is not knowing what went wrong in the first place. Hate to see these things happen, but you have a new preflight/setup check going forward; thank you for sharing all the information.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Totally agree! Thanks for watching!

[@deandadamo7796]

Jon the people that have negative comments are haters and live through you. They wish they were as good a builder and pilot as you are and will never admit that ! The skills you exhibit are second to none. Glad you found the problem with the Bull! Keep up the great work and looking forward to the next maiden ! God bless

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you very much! I appreciate that!

[@sysmith9910]

I wish there was more in depth analysis of RC crashes like this. I find this a great assistance to possible causes & can assist in possible prevention in the future. As a flyer, I want to know what brought my model down. "Dumb thumbs" is easy to conclude, but if its malfunction, I want to know what caused it!...Excellent vid. cheers from the other side of the globe.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you and totally agree! Without my Jeti setup, I would not have the option to dig this deep! I know other manufaactures record but this was a great experience to finally get to the outcome.

[@timcooper1321]

@@thelightersideofrc This is a testament to the fact that the Jeti system is mandatory on expensive planes such as this. The best telemetry and IMHO interface onthe market.

[@Mgp-Rc]

Thanks so much for sharing what happened and most especially the WHY. In my 44 years modelling there is nothing worse than to lose something that you really like and NOT KNOWING what happened. A simple fix to have space away from certain systems. Blue Skies always!!

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks! Yes, nice to have closure on it!

[@brianreece785]

Great to solve the mystery. You can go forward with knowledge that can help others and may save many mishaps.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Brian. Yea nice to have closure for sure!

[@henriktheorin2393]

Wonderful!! Thanks for your vids!!!!

[@thelightersideofrc]

My pleasure!

[@ghoustanable]

Thanks for sharing this and not giving up to solve the problem. Cheers 🍻

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you! Nice to have closure on it!

[@jrmotorsports55]

Glad to see you got to the bottom of the crash. Sad, but good info for the future.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Nice to have closure for sure!

[@mdemed]

It’s great that you were able to solve the mystery of the cause of the crash. The alternative would be worrisome for sure. Good work none the less. On to the next project!

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks!

[@crazyaces9586]

Bummer that stuff happens...great that you could diagnose it ! Thanks for sharing is caring for others don't make that mistake.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Nice to have closure on it!

[@CVHeliPilot]

Hi from DownUnder Johnathon - Great diagnostics to identify the issue. Just be aware that many light controllers use switch-mode type power circuitry to control the power to the lights. These tend to produce RF noise not too different to switch-mode BEC circuits and the like. In future - Always a good idea to keep these away from other electronics.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you! Nice to have it figured out!

[@petermerkel1706]

I was really sorry to learn about the mishap with the Bull. Every modeler out there can sympathize with what happened. However, I am supper happy for you that you were able to determine the cause. Excellent post crash analysis and investigation. Thank you. Your efforts and recommendations may very well prevent someone from experiencing the loss of their aircraft.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Nice to have the outcome sorted Nice to have closure on it!

[@txcnguy]

Hi Jonathan. Noise coupling can be very elusive. Glad you were able to replicate the issue.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks! Nice to have closure on this!

[@damienmilk3025]

Great job bringing this to a conclusion. There is nothing worse than just not knowing.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Totally Agree Damien!

[@michaelconnolly6170]

We had a requirement for glass cockpit aircraft to separate signal runs to prevent "interference" that you found with the "BULL". Your discovery for separation of 2 to 3 inches to preclude the interference is analogous to our "life size" aircraft. Great job!

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Michael. Nice to have closure on this and also learn from it for sure!

[@Aero_Rc.]

THE lighter side of RC NTSB . Nice job!

[@thelightersideofrc]

LOL Thanks Brandon.

[@anthonywatkins2783]

I can understand how you feel about finding the problem, very well done on passing on this issue for fellow modellers, onwards and upwards as they say. 👍

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you very much!

[@brianroy8979]

Thanks for the information very nice to know what actually happened Good information for my build I am putting a vspeak on my F16 with a 190 swiwin and spektrum Thank for the information Always good videos

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Brian.

[@olddogg60]

Great detective work Jon. 👍

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks 👍

[@gryfandjane]

Bingo! That was really fascinating, being able to isolate the problem and duplicate it on the bench. And yes, you lost an airplane, but now you know what to do in future to avoid the same issue cropping up again. Great stuff!

[@thelightersideofrc]

Totally Gryf. Nice to have closure on it!

[@jaimeramaltorres816]

Hi Jonathan!! Great video!! Great troubleshooting

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you! Nice to have closure on it!

[@doverivermedia3937]

Very satisfying to arrive at a firm conclusion. Helpful to publish it too... 🇬🇧

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you! Nice to have closure on it!

[@craigcarr5704]

Hi Jonathan, thank you for the conclusion. I love how you have so methodically approached the issue to get to the root cause. It’s just a pity it cost you the model but thank you for sharing for the benefit of all.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Craig. Nice to have closure on it!

[@jayf636]

So glad you found the issue! Thanks for sharing

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks for watching!

[@MartinVenter371]

Well done for figuring it out. Always nice to have a conclusion.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Totally!

[@Gavs_rc_hobbies]

It's good that you can say 'case closed' on it. On to the next build! 💪🏻

[@thelightersideofrc]

Totally!

[@davidfaltus4492]

Glad you found the issue.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Me too! Nice to have closure!

[@chadkuenzinger4256]

Way to go. So happy for the conclusion. Hard work pays off.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Chad! Yea, Nice to have closure!

[@victorrcjets7660]

Glad you figured it out😊

[@thelightersideofrc]

Me too! Nice to have closure on it!

[@davidsnyder238]

Excellent, im so glad you got it run down. Sometimes its the smallest simple things that can cause the biggest headaches!

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks David. Nice to have closure on it!

[@jordancoleman2402]

Good work 👍 im sure you have saved some other people from going through the same thing 👍

[@thelightersideofrc]

I hope so!

[@ficosk8]

Thanks for sharing!

[@thelightersideofrc]

You bet!

[@mikepi660]

Thanks for the info,, great job,,,

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks for checking it out!

[@p3arljam26]

You are going to save people a lot of time and money with this information.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you. Nice to have closure on it!

[@cymaz100]

Well done on being very methodical....🎉❤However, I suggest a bench test run on everything you build from now on

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you!

[@justinm1150]

thats AWESOme you guys figured it out good job so sad about plane though

[@thelightersideofrc]

Yes. But great learning for me and any viewers who watched this.

[@afterburner666]

Great info.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks!

[@jean-claudeterretaz7464]

amazing , good for you to find the crash mystery .

[@thelightersideofrc]

Nice to have closure on it!

[@robward7662]

Well that’s a huge plus for Jeti , how many planes have you just saved? Many I think.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Rob. Yea it's nice to have closure and also learn from this.

[@jeremy7923]

It was so curious to me that the interference happened around the 5:30 mark in BOTH flights... makes total sense now. Rest easier!

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Jeremy. Nice to have closure on it!

[@herricmountain]

Isn’t it always great to know what happened! Next take off with your mind at ease. Great detective work.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Totally! Nice to have closure!

[@jeronehawkins8268]

Happy it was resolved jerry

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Jerry. me too!

[@remicallant8756]

I am very happy to know why, because its very interesting to know, many thanks for sharing to all of us, the main thing that you and your friend resolve the real problem, we all learn always very much out of your videos, congratulations from Remi

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Remi!

[@adrianusseto1737]

thank you for sharing this useful information.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Nice to have closure on it!

[@WalterMitty1966]

Hi Jon, So glad you got a diagnosis !! Wet thought it was an interference issue , with the speed of the spikes , but , sooo glad you got to the bottom of it !! ATB mate Cheers Phil

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Phil! Nice to have it sorted and closure on it!

[@minologymusic6090]

Brilliant. Similar thing happened to me in a brand new plane…

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks! Nice to have closure on it!

[@MrMAPECU]

Well done working out a very complicated issue! That is very strange, have to assume it’s interference from a switch mode controller in the lighting module affecting the VSpeak. I guess the moral of the story is not to put anything inline with an important control signal, like throttle. Great channel and I really enjoy your content, even though I don’t fly turbines. Keep up the good work and now at least you are less likely to have another incident like this. 😊

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you! Yes! Nice to have closure on this issue!

[@pre7ender]

Thanks for sharing the post mortem, really helpful! I start logging on my Jeti when engine is above X rpm.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Glad it helped!Nice to have closure on it!

[@wearemany73]

WOOOOOOW! I would never have guessed that in a Squillion years! That’s so utterly rare in terms of how solid 2.4ghz is from an interference POV. Please try tiny graphite rings around your “receiver-servo” connections or wherever you think the signal is being induced. Great diagnostics Johnathan! 😃🇬🇧❤️👍

[@thelightersideofrc]

Nice to have closure on it!

[@Georgesvangansen]

Really good info, Thank you!!!

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Georges. Nice to have closure on it!

[@ronailer3012]

Great stuff to keep in mind while stuffing all the electronics into sometimes what is very limited space. Thanks Jonathan and Aaron.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Ron!

[@edwinthomas618]

GREAT video Mr.J. Im so.glad you solved the issue. Question. For you do you think using a ferritte ring off the lights wiring leads will help with redundancy?

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Edwin. I'm not an educated electronics guy. I think just not having everything bundled up so tight may have solved it.

[@ronnyskf]

Great that you find the problem , keep up this good work. .. ;-)

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks 👍

[@gmrcomp]

Very interesting. I think this is one reason why to use twisted wire runs (like power box wire does). I guess the theory is that twisted wire is less vulnerable to interference. Curious what would happen if the throttle wire runs were twisted or using power box wire. Thank you for sharing!

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Gary.

[@raptornest1346]

I must say great job finding the root cause 👍

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you! Very satisfying!

[@IceMan2035]

Great job❤

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Chris!

[@IceMan2035]

Your welcome

[@MrFishface5]

good find

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks John! Nice to have closure on it!

[@busmanrc5020]

Glad you got it figured out. we have all been there with a technical issue, talk it out and the answer pops out. Sorry about the bird, so what else will you build around the components? 🙂

[@thelightersideofrc]

Nice to have closure! The landing gear and receiver components went into the Kinetix. Servos and Receiver setup from the F4 will go in the next aircrat!

[@WorldFormula390ish]

To be able to put you mind at ease is easily worth the effort to analyze the data and use some good old logic/testing to prove out your theory. Well, done.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks! Yes it was nice to find the cause of it all and learn from it.

[@aaronforthRC]

Sorry you lost a Jet Johnathan. Glad I was able to assist in finding the root cause

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Aaron! Nice to have closure on it!

[@ferguscampbell2485]

I spent 20 years in the New Zealand Air Force as a electrical mechanic/fitter. The biggest problem we had is inter system interference. We were lucky that we did not loose any air craft, we had a few grounded for that problem until we resolved it. I also changed the the ignition cables on my high performance car engine and was band off base because I interfered with all the radios. I went from carbon fiber cored to solid copper HT leads to fix a miss fire problem. I had to have some specially made ignition coils fitted and reinstall carbon fiber leads and I was allowed back on base.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Fergus. Nice to have closure on it!

[@donb7740]

Good work finding the culprit. Most times that does not happen, narrowing down the cause and affect. If you fly you are going to crash. A certainty based on my personal history of flying and building model planes for 60 years. My first RC plane was a Carl Goldberg 1/2A rudder only escapement with a Mule Transmitter. Congratulations and hang in there.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Don. Nice to have closure on it!

[@BenSieweke]

Time to build another one. 😊

[@thelightersideofrc]

Agreed! HISPANO AVIATION!!!!! HELP!!!!

[@Joerad1st]

Did you ever get a replacement Boss?

[@topguncg47]

Great root cause analysis. This could be six sigma project. You should publish this for others to learn from. Ps: don’t beat yourself up over the ideas that comment negatively. If your not crashing occasionally your not flying.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Chris! I appreciate it!

[@Livlifetaistdeth]

My LED on my bike would interfere with my bike computer so I totally understand this happening. Great work on figuring that out.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks! NICE TO have closure on it for sure!

[@terrencejackson4587]

Years ago, I bought a twin engine aircraft from RCAerodyne. I also bought the light kit with flowing strobes. I installed them with an on and off switch. With the xenon strobes on, I would get sporadic servo jump and electro interference to everything in the aircraft. End result is that I didn’t use the lights on anything except taxi. I crashed the airplane on landing but I learned a valuable lesson about lights and the electro interference they can cause. I only use Dimension Engineering lights now and they work very well.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Terrence.

[@DonDegidio]

Hi Jonathan, With only a few inches of separation solving the problem, that tells me the interference was not coming in from the wiring. Maybe wrapping the vspeak module with some aluminum foil might prevent any interference.

[@wearemany73]

It wouldn’t be the module itself picking up the rogue signal but one/some of the leads plugged into the module.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Don. Nice to have closure on it!

[@michiganengineer8621]

Great to hear you figured out the cause of the crash. Hopefully VSpeak will take a closer look at their current design and figure out some method to shield the device better. My initial thought was the lights were sucking down the battery voltage too much since I think you "condensed" the number of battery packs in the Bull build.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Nice to have closure on it!

[@madsloper]

Nice job on finding out what was the cause of your crash, maybe investing in an RF scanner would be a worthwhile investment. Happy Flying!

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you!

[@s9523pink]

Excellent ❤

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks 😊

[@medscott2]

Way to not give up and put your mind at ease for future builds. Still sorry that you lost your jet.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you! Nice to have closure on it!

[@ianmcnulty3279]

Well done NO NOT THE LANDING but it's nice when you can tie the problem down and save it from happening again

[@thelightersideofrc]

LOL. Thanks Ian.

[@davidhollfelder9940]

Thanks for sharing. My nav & landing lights controller is mounted over the wing, and use Kingtech and Spektrum telemetry (no Vspeak), located an effective distance away, and have not had any issues. I will check my stuff for RF emissions, as I am also a Ham Radio Operator. LED light controllers usually have switch mode power supplies, that can have noticeable RF noise. My main concern/issue, is that our radio’s up channels/back channels, and Bluetooth (is used) .. although it uses FHSS, it still uses the same crowded 2.4GHz band. Let VSpeak know about the RF interference issue, as they ought to have an RF shield available .. also, I’d be concerned about the single conductor data wire, that also could/should be shielded.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks for watching! I think we have, with our fancy tech forgotten about interference. I know before this, I sure didn't pay it much attention.

[@XxmillerniaxX]

Way to turn a loss into a positive for everyone else by diagnosing the issue.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Iain. Yea it's nice to have closure and learn from it.

[@stacyjussila4691]

I am happy that you found out the reason this happened

[@thelightersideofrc]

Nice to have closure on it!

[@TomislavReskovic]

What light controller(s) are those wrapped.up? JMB / Globaljet setups come with some metal boxed ones which make servos buzz when lights are on and FM radio in workshop picks that rf interferrence also. Glad you found the issue. Maybe those light controllers are some unshielded buck transformers which create a lot of RF noise?

[@thelightersideofrc]

no specific controller. Just wiring and castle creations BEC's

[@Noncenx]

Wow. Closure anyway. My uneducated guess was the fuel pump since the turbine went into restart a couple of times. I know its crappy to lose one, but now you know why. Unfortunately all of mine go back to Pilot Error. 🤣. And as far as people telling you what you should have done. They weren't there during that second or two you had to decide what to do. The rest of the time was executing your decision. Thanks for the videos, even though I don't fly turbines, I learn a lot from you.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you! Yea it's nice to have it solved!

[@gregoryh4601]

Jonathan so happy that you found the Problem but there is always good out of a Bad things. You just Save someone else Jet. Jonathan try more Shrink wrap like Black or Carbon fibers ? This way it helps jets that have no Room. You Still the Best Jet Builder on KZbin. ( I think)

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Gregord. Nice to have closure on it!

[@wearemany73]

I think I speak for everyone in the RC community when I say “Come on Johnathan, learn to fly!” 😉❤️🇬🇧👍 (also, we need more Nez)

[@kengreaves]

When you have the same problem let's see how you go be honest now

[@thelightersideofrc]

😂😂. LOL. Thanks!

[@-2772-]

less electronic-parts .....better results

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks. Nice to have closure on it!

[@titoortiz4734]

I knew you'll find the problem,hey we all human. How many guys you see that crash after take off only to find that if they would off made a range check they would still have a jet. Great job love your videos regardless.😊

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thank you. Nice to have closure on it!

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

Seems VSpeak might want to redesign with more EMI shielding. In their defense they would not have thought a bundle RFI leaky LED lighting systems would be that big an issue.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Totally! It's really nothing specific or unique in the bundles. Just come Castle creation BEC's but it's probably the bundle itself.

[@scottwatson5767]

Just goes to show that even hi end products can have issues. Glad you were able to figure it out, just sucks it took a crash to find an issue! I would bet that you will do more rigorous ground testing in the future. Hi dollars crashes suck. Good luck.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Scott. Yea nice to have closure on it and learn from it!

[@stevenj.elliott1579]

Sad that something so simple can lead to th demise of a great model. I'm sure that you'll have it back in the air soon Jonathan. 😢😢😢

[@thelightersideofrc]

ive moved on as this was over a year ago. pisses me off still but have had a great 1.5 years so far!

[@andreiput9492]

what would be really interesting would be how to repair an aircraft following a crash or hevay landing in which there is a ot of structural damage and when there is light damage. how to repair what tools to use; what to replace etc...

[@thelightersideofrc]

ive done a few repair series in the past. Need to dig through my video's and playlists to find them.

[@Bigboy4018]

Hate that this happened, but so happy you found the issue and how to prevent it happening again. Just like the TV show Air Disasters and their investigations.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks Larry. Nice to have closure on it!

[@zman4444]

Thank goodness for Jeti Telemetry

[@thelightersideofrc]

Totally!

[@SteveBull-tg8mi]

This type of crash also happens in private aviation when engine problems occur shortly after takeoff and pilots try to make it back to the runway from low altitude and low energy. Result often is a fatal accident.

[@thelightersideofrc]

Yea. Sad to see when it happens.

[@wmgilliland2582]

Perhaps you can wrap your wiring bundle with some carbon fiber cloth, since carbon fiber blocks/absorbs emf it might help prevent this from ever happening again.

[@thelightersideofrc]

👍

[@Nitzz97]

WOW! Who would have thunk it....

[@thelightersideofrc]

No Kidding Hey! Nice to have closure on it!

[@chadcarr3338]

Oh man that sucks! So we need to make you and Aron the ntsb of Rc

[@thelightersideofrc]

HAHA.

[@josephkerkau2520]

So out of the two reasons that I was looking at Electrical and / or Mechanical, not your flying ability. I'm glad you found the problem!! (Speaking in general terms). I hate electrical problems because you don't know about it until it happens. Unlike a mechanical, which you can usually see before it happens. Good job, Detective Jonathan... After watching your test, I can understand the bundle creating a magnetic field like wire wrapped around a nail with electrical current going through? It. Magnetism, electrical field. Like the old flying days of putting your receiver too close to the engine, for example.....

[@thelightersideofrc]

Yea I don't think we think too much about interference anymore with the quality of our equipment but obviously, it can still happen. Nice to have closure on this!

[@Rombo-86]

Nice NTSB work! And don’t care about people talking shit. In the heat of the moment is very very tough to make decisions. And you were so so close to making it back to the runway. Love your videos! Keep up the good 💪

[@thelightersideofrc]

Thanks!😊

[@timwrightjetguy]

Does the interference affect EX Bus configuration the same?

[@thelightersideofrc]

The interference was being picked up by the Vspeak module so configuation wouldn't have mattered.

[@xtevexeairoux2637]

here's an interesting fact electricity gives off RF radio frequency if you twist the wires each pair of wires to each servo at a different rate like say one twist per inch versus two twists per inch versus three twist for inch you have to do that for each Servo individually so that each Servo doesn't interfere with another servo if you understand what I'm getting at the RF that's going through those circuits just by turning them on the electricity creates an RF or radio frequency whether it's the right one or the wrong one it will so you have to make sure that you twist those wires either counterclockwise or clockwise it will change the frequency of the wire itself which may be what's interfering with your other servos or anything else that is connected to a radio frequency or receiving a radio frequency

[@thelightersideofrc]

Great info