Word Families & Language Learning

[@alicesmith6159]

The 80% rule (focusing only on the higher frequency words) doesn't take into consideration the endless expressions, idioms, and phrasal verbs that transform many common words into something else entirely. For example, to know that the word "get" in English means to "acquire" does not help at all when it comes to phrases like "get lost", "I'll get around to it", "gets me", "I got it" etc... It may be true that a few thousand words are used 80% of the time, but many of those words are used in multiple ways with completely different meanings. I never see mention of this when it comes to the 80% rule.

[@Thelinguist]

That's why at LingQ we save words and phrases. They all need to be learned.

[@ibarix]

Because that "get" is the real get in 80% of the time. Other 20% it might mean something else. That's why you learn word chunks and words in context.

[@christiandufourmentel3237]

This word "get" composed of only 3 letter has AFAIK 16 different meanings (translated into French) without forgetting when he is used with particles. ( a staggering amount of different meanings). Shortly speaking, I'll say that you cannot assimilate all the world meaning by heart. The only way once more is "practice" (speaking and reading as well) . English, the so-called "easy language to learn". "mean" 14 or 15 different meanings. Learning the most common uses of the frequent words is the best way. Then you acquire the rest over time by practicing. That's my opinion. Do you agree? Regards. Christian.

[@alicesmith6159]

Oh yes, definitely. My comment was regarding the 80/20 rule which some people like to think means that if you learn the most frequent words (80% of what's commonly spoken) then you can understand easily what native speakers are saying. My experience (much like Steve's) has been that this isn't true at all - and in my opinion it's partially because many of those high frequency words have a ton of different meanings that effectively transform them into different words. "Get" was the first example that came to mind, but there are a million like that; for example "to run". You can run up a bill, run a business, run to the store, run around on someone (cheat), run the numbers, run over a dog (with your car)...I think there are actually more than 200 different meanings of "run". Knowing the literal meaning of "run" is not at all helpful in all these situations, it's like having to learn 200 different words. The only way to do it is to listen for when one of these expressions pops up and make a note of it in your mind (or ask about it). I agree that it's probably impossible to memorize all those meanings.

[@Arctagon]

I agree with your message, but I want to point out a few things that need clarification. Pardon the somewhat long text. Your example with 'get' doesn't quite work; each instance of it with different meanings are different words, even if they are spelt the same way. The word 'word' is much too vague and only serves to cause confusion in cases like this, which is why it is rarely used by linguists. When talking more in-depth about a topic, more precise vocabulary is usually needed, and that's where terminology comes in. In linguistics, the appropriate term in this scenario would be 'lexeme', which in simple terms can roughly be defined as a unit that carries semantic meaning with a real world referent. In a sense, it can be thought of as a type of word. For example, 'cow' is a lexeme referring to that large four-legged animal commonly raised as livestock and used to produce milk, amongst other things, but so is 'cows' and 'the cow' and 'the cows'. All of these are one and the same lexeme. The same applies to 'get', meaning 'receive'; 'get', 'gets', 'getting', and 'got' are all the same lexeme, but 'get', meaning 'understand', is another lexeme entirely, because it refers to something else. It just happens to be spelt the same way. The point is that these instances of 'get' would be considered different 'words' for counting purposes. A small note on memorisation: it's never a question of memorisation. Language isn't learned that way. It is learned through exposure to the language, through consuming it, whether it be through reading or listening. The brain will make more and more sense of it the more contexts it is exposed to, and with each context, the understanding becomes a little richer. A native speaker may be able to tell the difference between all or most of the different meanings and nuances of 'get', but not because they learned it by heart. As I prefaced this text with, I agree with your message. The ability to comprehend language consists of several factors. Vocabulary is just one of them. Another is being able to parse language in real time, which assumes a certain level of listening skills, but this is obviously only present sometimes. Let's assume the least demanding situation: reading. One can spend as much time as one would like with each word, each sentence, everything has context, and there is little to no stress involved. There is also no listening involved, and let's also assume the script used is the same used for one's native language. These are the most favourable conditions one can think of. Yet, even when understanding 100% of the words in a given sentence under these favourable conditions, there is no guarantee that one will understand the message in the sentence. I have experienced this myself. An understanding of grammar is also required, not to mention syntax, and these differ from language to language. So you are right in your initial proposition, but I'll do you one better: no matter how many words one understands separately, one is never going to understand the language, because a separate understanding of words doesn't account for grammar or syntax, but more importantly, it doesn't account for idioms, phrases, expressions, and an understanding of the culture, which heavily influences these and the language in general.

[@Michelle-go4io]

Well summed up. Finding a consistent way to measure known words is problematic because "word" and "know" can be defined in a variety of ways. This method is good enough for its purpose - a carrot to chase and a means to compare yourself today to yourself last week.

[@mycats.4698]

English))) and I pay the most attention now on my speaking skill and writing of course too!!!! I can pretty much easily understand written and spoken material but to speak is sometimes difficult for me!!! First of all because here in Russia it s a big pain to be able to find a speaker who you can speak with!!! I would say here almost 90 percents of populace learned are learning or will learn English but.... And it is a BIG BUT ... Virtually almost nobody can speak it!!! It s sad!!! But I m working on it!!! Thanks to everybody and to STEVE !!!!!

[@Vytautas99]

The problem with learning Russian in the English-speaking country of America is that if you do encounter Russians, then you usually find them only speaking Russian to other Russians to make a broad general statement. And if you do speak with them, then they would want to converse with to you in English and not Russian. So, maybe, in addition to the problem of finding the right person(s) to speak with you in the language that you are attempting to learn, there is the barrier of being willing to accommodate yourself to their Forms of Living (Lebensform), which we all must adjust ourselves to.

[@diegrow1979]

Genial, me encanta la manera clara y cristalina con la cual tratas esto asuntos que de otro modo sería complejo de explicar y transmitir, como el hecho de usar una milestone de una lingua para desarroyar despues esa lingua misma y non continuamente traducir de tu lengua nativa. Grande Steve, el mejor en la red! :D

[@matt11lz]

your website really is a blessing, just got done my semester at college, so I'll be using linq all summer to get way ahead in my Russian

[@Thelinguist]

Go for it.

[@spacedew]

Hello Steve, Could you say what do you think the standard should be for saving Japanese words in lingq? Should I already mark it as known if I understand the meaning from the sound, but don't remember the kanji? And sometimes the opposite happens, like the example you gave in Chinese. For example, 鼓舞 I knew both of the kanji, and I was almost sure of the reading but wasn't sure what the meaning was. I'm not quite sure how I should handle this.

[@betavulgaris7888]

I regularly move 300-400 words per day to 'known'. Once you get to a good level it snowballs and words just become clear. It's quite possible to learn 30-40-50,000 words in a year.

[@ibarix]

"It's quite possible to learn 30-40-50 k words in a year" No, it's not. Maybe on LingQ which has that misleading scale. You can SEE 30-50k words in a year but you truly KNOW like 5% of those overpumped figures. But hey, if that motivates you, that's fine.

[@betavulgaris7888]

Yes, it is. In my first year of learning French i had over 37,000 words which i knew the definition of in translation, and more that i knew the meaning of because of context but not the direct translation. You can 'see' those words ? As in 'read' them ? LOL. In my first year of learning French i read several novels and several hundred website pages including longer editorial pieces, news articles, wiki articles and other stuff including youtube and facebook comments from real people. *Millions* of words containing many more than i know the definition of. I don't know (or care) what *your* definition of 'to know' is. But it *is* possible and if you think it's not then it's either because you're lazy or you're one of these science-ites who needs to see someone publish some study about it before you'll believe it. Try it yourself, maybe ? And I don't use LingQ.

[@nurulamin2992]

Im curious then, what do you use?

[@betavulgaris7888]

Learning with texts.

[@fiftoufi2353]

You seem to be a veteran regarding LWT. Any tips for a novice or suggestion for the long run ? Thank you.

[@SouthPark333Gaming]

The amount of words you know isn't important, what's important is how much you understand!

[@Thelinguist]

You think the two are not intimately connected?

[@SouthPark333Gaming]

Oh yes of course I do, I think I should probably have elaborated a bit. The amount of words you know is the most important thing about learning a language, but it's more complicated than just the number of words. Someone who only knows 2000 words might be able to understand the language better than someone who knows 3000. And putting a number on how many words you know, doesen't necessarily say anything about how good you are at the language.

[@elbandman]

Hello Steve, I'll be very glad if you make available your book in the most learned languages at Lingq, I saw it just in six languages and I read it five times, language learning process is very interesting. Regards.

[@emiliosgregoriou8943]

Essentially, just read. And once you finish reading, read some more. It's much more efficient and easier to accumulate vocabulary this way than listening to a podcast or watching a movie (you should do those too, but for the sake of better comprehension and improvement of the accent). Use those together, and you'll be talking and writing your way in a foreign language in no time.

[@highchamp1]

Interesting content problem (the real issue) Using the internet and learning from content you are interested in. I am amazed that the focus is not on setting up and using the internet (transcripts, subtitles, electronic translations, dictionaries, books, Radio, TV, KZbin etc.) I use "language learning"stuff like Duolingo etc. but what we really need is the internet to be set up for language learners.

[@Thelinguist]

Go to LingQ. Import anything you want into LingQ or use what is already in the library.

[@betavulgaris7888]

The internet *is* set up for language learners. Native material is what language learners should be using. It's available online in most languages.

[@highchamp1]

Practically I find it a pain to use. The technology is available but not accessible when I need it. With some fundamental changes to KZbin (see FluentU) it would be easy and practical to use. Another example is Picture translator (on Smart Phone) would be handy while watching TV or online. (Japanese shows) with all the colorful text on screen they use.

[@betavulgaris7888]

They are crutches that only keep you in comfort levels and stop you improving. The technology IS there - you need native input to learn a language and once you're past a beginner level gimmicks like you mentioned won't help. Go on LingQ instead. Reading will work a thousand times better, native youtube vlogs and series will work even better than that.

[@highchamp1]

Try that with Chinese or Japanese. It's a very different story. (Kanji) With western languages you use it less and less naturally quite fast.

[@kevincarter7633]

Do you have Any videos on your method of studying verbs?

[@leonardojordao6020]

Hello Steve! I have a question: I have been watching your videos here in KZbin because it is such a interesting content for me (language learning subject), all the strategies and tips are very pleasure to hear, especially hear it from you! But you said that it is not a good idea watching videos in order to learn a language. I would like to know why not, because the video has audio (for listening) and sometimes subtitles (for reading) and those 2 are the most important inputs. Thank you! I almost never write and I am a beginner in English learning. Sorry for the mistakes. TE ADMIRO MUITO!

[@maxoleynik1388]

to get credit for it - what does it mean in addition to pay money ?

[@ThorIsBoss]

As always Steve provides useful info.

[@kenbinner]

Hi Steve, sorry if this is irrelevant to the video but is there any possibility of Urdu or Hindi being added to LingQ anytime soon?

[@Thelinguist]

We will add any language for which we can get enough content. If you know of some volunteers willing to create content let me know. The easiest path is to translate and record our 60 mini-stories. this has lead us to adding other languages.

[@Crystal_12gem]

What languages are you guys learning?

[@brunoeduardo3690]

Mark 17 English

[@NoXXXWay]

Turkish!!!

[@MichaelJordan-xp3yb]

German and Swedish

[@lucasalexandre7231]

French.

[@cleitonsiqueira6863]

Now French, German and Russian

[@jamescook2412]

The problem is people don't like reading, they like Netflix. Reading makes you smart for a reason. That's why you hear constantly "Watch a movie with subtitles ". I agree 100% with Steve, watching the movie is the reward. Reading is a much powerful tool. How could I learn mandarin in this moment by watching chinese tv? No idea when a word starts or ends. It ain't portuguese! (I speak spanish)

[@alicesmith6159]

I disagree with this, though everyone obviously has a right to their opinion. I started out with a lot of reading (books and articles). While I think that's a great thing to do in general, I've found the most improvement with watching short (20 min) TV shows on Netflix. First, I watch an episode in the target language but with English subtitles, then I re-watch it again in the target language but without any subtitles (because in Italian the subtitles never match the dialogue). Doing this, I've substantially improved my ability to understand spoken Italian which includes slang and common expressions that don't tend to show up in books. It's especially useful because listening to how people speak to each other is what I want to mimic; I can't go around narrating things third person the way it's often done in books. Italian books have the additional problem that the Remote Past is used extensively while in Northern Italian it's almost never used, and in the south it's used sometimes. When I was only using only books, I was really missing out on dialogue, which in my opinion is the most important thing for learning how to SPEAK a language.

[@alicesmith6159]

I disagree with this, though everyone obviously has a right to their opinion on reading vs. watching. I think that watching shows/movies when done the right way is extremely effective and when combined with reading is a really powerful language-learning strategy. I started out only reading books + articles + podcasts with transcriptions. The big problem was that I was missing out on dialogue. So I started watching short shows on Netflix (20 min). First, I watch the episode in Italian with English subtitles. Then I re-watch the same episode in Italian but without any subtitles. Doing this has made a HUGE difference in my ability to understand and speak conversational Italian. I've picked up a ton of expressions and phrases and slang that just never really show up in books and articles. Since my goal is to have conversations and SPEAK, it makes sense to listen to people speaking to each other. I can't very well go around narrating things third-person the way it's done in books. Additionally, with Italian, another problem is that in writing the Remote Past tense is used extensively, but in northern Italy it's almost NEVER used conversationally (in the south it's used more, but not the way it's used in literature).

[@jamescook2412]

Alice Smith My point is for you is easy because you like to read, you can see the value of reading and watching authentic material. Most people in the world NEVER read books.

[@alicesmith6159]

I don't really think that the act of reading makes people smarter. I think that people who are inherently intelligent benefit from reading literature that is thought-provoking and complex; the act of reading can be a catalyst to push them further and consider ideas they would otherwise not have thought about. However, my cousin with a barely 85 IQ can read the Twilight series or Harry Potter all day long and she's not getting any smarter from that. The act of reading doesn't do much if the choice of material is poor (most literature nowadays) and the act of reading doesn't do much if the ideas contained in the literature go over the person's head because they are not capable of making connections, they are not used to thinking deeply about things in general, or they are just concrete thinkers who take things at face value. Reading is great for improving general knowledge and language skills, but I don't believe it makes anyone smarter.

[@benalexender3046]

Thanks from Egypt: )

[@MrPVRman]

Hey Steve, I've been studying Mandarin for 6 weeks at 5-6 hours a day on average. I know a load of words, but when reading and listening on link even knowing I know the words I still have to look them up periodically. This continuous learning and forgetting is that part of language learning?

[@HuntyzChannel]

Absolutely. Steve talks a lot about it. Forgetting is part of the learning process. Don't mind too much about it.

[@Thelinguist]

As Lucas says, you are on the right track. Reading the words and looking them up again in context is your spaced repetition system. But the second time or third time you already have the meaning saved, altho you may want to add to the definition. You are on the right track. Enjoy your reading and listening.

[@ibarix]

"This continuous learning and forgetting is that part of language learning?" In short, yes. Just keep going and keep doing more.