Subconscious vs. Unconscious

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

💚 Bonus Content and Philosophy Community: patreon.com/thelivingphilosophy ⌛ Timestamps: 0:00 Introduction 0:51 The Origins: Janet and Freud 4:03 A Tale of Two Usages 8:41 Which one is right?

[@Eternalised]

Brilliant work, very useful.

[@MrJibsIV]

Whoa

[@dethkon]

@@MrJibsIV I’m not surprised that these guys watch each other’s channels lol

[@amanofnoreputation2164]

A more precise version of subconscious (though it isn't actually used in the contexts to which uncopnscious or subconscious are normally applied) is "sub-threshold" which has a much clearer connotation than subconscious and very clearly refers to sensations or contents, not autonomous processes because of the assocation with stimuli: If a particle of dust rests on your arm while you're sleeping, you won't know it's there because the preassure of the particle's weight on your arm isn't sufficent to engage your mechanoceptors. If the particle was something heavier, maybe your cat or something, it might generate an action potential and engage your sense of preassure or even your nociceptors and influence your dreams, but still not enough to wake you up. There is a bar of sensory stimulation that still hasn't been cleared. It is sub-threshold. Then your friend barges into the room burst a ballon with a pin. This sharp action potential from your eardrums finally clears the threshold of consciousness and you're awake. This threshold still exists while you are awake and there are all kinds of sensations going on around you all the time that your body may be sensitive enough to pick up on, but your consciousness doesn't. In theory, in order for you to consciously exprience something, the stimulus has to be sufficent to distract you from whatever you're doing with your awareness at that moment, presenting a clear threshold where anything below that limit isn't pickedup by consciousness but which may still impact the psyche of the individual in some way.

[@Vooodooolicious]

Sub threshold is really a term used by cognitive psychology and sometimes clinical psychology. It doesn't apply to Jung's unconscious. Jung's unconscious is an ocean in comparison to cognitive psychologies cup of water. I am not saying that that cup of water isn't difficult but Jung's unconscious is actually almost impossible. Especially, when going into the archetypes, mythology and symbolism.

[@rookhoatzin]

This content is what keeps me coming back to youtube, wading through the vast sea of triviality. Thanks so much for keeping it real.

[@marcop1389]

This is exactly the video I was looking for! Super clear and complete. Thank you!

[@amanofnoreputation2164]

Unconscious is the one disambiguated by psychoanalytic theory, while subconscious is what gurus appropriated because what it actually means is much less explicit. When depth psychologists refer to forms of awareness in the unconscious, they use the term "autonomous."

[@Skythikon]

Interesting. I'm in a graduate program that reads a lot of Lacan (I'm mostly unfamiliar with Jung) and got a rather different perspective. What I've heard is that "subconscious" is more aligned with Jung and the idea of another hidden consciousness beneath 'ordinary' consciousness; the subconscious is understood as something meaningful which can be deciphered. "Unconscious" is more aligned with Freud or Lacan, and the idea that what exists below the surface is impersonal. The unconscious is pre-meaning; it is not something with a hidden meaning that can discovered. When somebody says "subconscious" a hidden personality is implied, while when someone says "unconsciousness" a tangle of impersonal forces is implied.

[@Vooodooolicious]

Its actually, the opposite. Jung only uses the term unconscious. He explains why.

[@dethkon]

@@Vooodooolicious Not quite “opposite” though, as Freud (and Lacan) are against using the term “subconscious” as well.

[@Vooodooolicious]

@@dethkon Freud called the unconscious the 'unconscious mind'. He didn't like the term unconscious and used the term subconscious for that reason. Lacan is my weak spot. I know his ideas from KZbin videos but haven't actually read his books. You are probably right. I know some of his ideas through Sartre. I know that Sartre rejected the unconscious but talked about it in other ways.

[@josiecirigliano9134]

I stick with the term unconscious because there is a great power there that, doesn't work as a machine and plus ,Jung always had perfect explanations to my quests .

[@suneasmussen2650]

"Giving a talk at your local cult..." :)

[@CrowMagnum]

I use subconscious for completely different reasons than those presented. Unconscious means not conscious to me, where subconscious implies the part of, or contributor to, consciousness that lies below normal awareness. This doesn't mean I subscribe to any of the narrow thinking you ascribed to team subconscious, and I don't think Freud and Jung were talking about the same thing in any way, shape, or form. Unconscious is what you are when under general anesthesia, and that has nothing to do with what I would be trying to discuss when using their term subconscious.

[@Vooodooolicious]

Under Jung unconscious also relates to the collective unconscious. It is the opposite to consciousness in a way but it is also more because it isn't a passive force like being asleep.

[@stephendesjardins3626]

"Sub"... suggests "just beneath the surface". "Un" ... suggests "not". There's a borderland, an boundary, where conscious and un overlap. A zone or territory where we are experiencing both simultaneously - the "dream state" zone, where we all the while are aware of where we are sleeping, or were. That is the zone just beneath the surface - the "sub" region. Beyond that, is "un".

[@WILD__THINGS]

Thank you so much for this! I have always thought the subconscious and unconscious were two different things. I thought the subconscious was just below the level of normal consciousness but could still be accessed somehow or at least it's effects on us detected and traced back to their source. On the other hand, I thought the unconscious was even lower in our psyche, so low that it was completely inaccessible, maybe still affecting us, but not in any way we could notice, make sense of, or least of all, trace back.

[@dethkon]

If you replace “subconscious” with “preconscious” your pretty close to the Freudian usage (except that the “unconscious” can be “accessed” in a manner of speaking, through things like Dream Interpretation, Free Association, Parapraxis, and Discourse (Analysis, basically).

[@siyaindagulag.]

Subconscious: A quality which the intuitive function lends to the unconscious ,rendering such contents accessible. An extra stepping stone, if you like. My two cents !

[@StrategyCats]

Also pre-consciousness and default mode network are technical terms. 100th monkey effect is real too

[@oswurth8774]

I fuck with pre-consciousness

[@Kraflyn]

it is really simple. A small cell living next to a thermal vent had warmth, gasses, some organic compounds too, it was paradise. But, sometimes, vent would go brrr for a short while. Vent became hotter for a second, and some poisonus gasses would be spit out too for few seconds. So the small cell had to survive that. So the small cell invented an organelle: a small metallic thing, composed of two kinds of metal, and put this small metallic organelle in its membrane. So when the heat increased, the thermal element organelle created electricity. This electricity contracted the membrane on the warm side, pushing the cell away. When the surroundings cooled down, the cell became hotter, so the electricity in the small organelle went the other way, contracting the other side of the cell. So cell came closer to the vent. This process was fully automatic clearly. So this little organelle, this nerv, was the beginning of the Reptilian Brain. It functions automatically. It does not speak. It doesn't know what time means. It doesn't know what space means. It is here to protect you always everywhere. Then, a New Brain emerged. The Neocortex. It sits around and on top of the Reptilian Brain. The New Brain invented time, space, it speaks too. But the Old Brain is here to protect you. You first jump aside, and only then say: "oh, look, it was a brick falling on my head. Ah, it would have missed any way, it fell 3 steps away from me!" The Old Brain fires first. Only then the New Brain kicks in. So the Old Brain sends orders. It is a dictator. There is no negotiating with the Old Brain. It works with instincts. Then, the New Brain processes orders. It processes them this way, that way, every way possible, imaginable and not imaginable, realistic and fantastic both. And then the New Brain says something useful and logical. So you see, the Old Brain is completely inaccessible to the New Brain. They don't work on the same principle. The Old Brain is the Unconscious part. No one can become conscious of what the Old Brain does, because there is no time, space, logic, words for the Old Brain. And it doesn't care at all for what the New Brain does. New Brain does not affect the Old Brain at all. Otherwise a brick would fall on your head without you jumping aside. Then, there is the initial process of figuring things out in the New Brain. This in Subconscious. This is what happens before the New Brain is ready to say something. Otherwise, without this processing, the New Brian would only speak Word Salads and Dreams. One can become conscious of these process, say, in dreams, when the New Brain isn't expected to say anything. It just does the first phase of thinking. And then the New Brain finally says something. This is the Conscious part. Now, in the modern world, you have to keep paying bills constantly, month in, month out. You are in debt to some unknown predators every single month. You have nothing of your own -- you have to pay for everything. Even water. So of course the Old Brain keeps protecting you. Sending signals. Over and over again. "Resolve this!" But you can't resolve this. And the Old Brain doesn't know about time and about waiting. So it keeps using instincts on us over and over in an attempt to help. This was not so centuries ago, when one would have their house, their cow, their chickens, their river, ... Back then the Old Brain only worried about sex!

[@ChandraPrakash-rg9ky]

I was thinking about this topic just now and than this video pop up

[@renaissancefairyowldemon7686]

Beautiful and enlightening video

[@hypergraphic]

I wonder if AGI will have either an unconscious or a subconscious mind? 🤔

[@Mark.Allen1111]

It took me three days but I finally finished the video. Interesting video. Overtime you might change your mind about all this. You could bring in new information and change your mind. What is more interesting to me is what is it that never changes? What does the mind sit on. What allows the mind to change or be? THE SELF doesn’t change. Your self does change. Which one is more real?

[@christianh.pedersen5976]

Amazing video!

[@ditty3293]

Im doing my capstone on the exact topic I just find it crazy a video was made during the time of my research lol

[@andreasholzner7601]

first and best video ever

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

First video EVER? I am quite certain that I have seen a videographic recording previously.

[@rookhoatzin]

i think of consciousness as an extension of the unconscious which evolved to meet the needs of the organism. As complexity has arisen awareness of external and internal stimuli has arisen also. If one thinks of the mind as a biological machine one should imagine the nuts and bolts that make up the machines hardware. We evolved to survive/procreate which has become complicated leading to our own level of complexity. But we are still slaves to our biology in terms of changing the goals or software of the human machine. Maybe we should be thinking of the subconscious as the conscious being and what we think of as consciousness as more, "complex awareness" a gift from our evolved physiology, intentional or not.... It changes the perspective a bit, we are the passenger still on the journey called life... Keep evolving!

[@Mark.Allen1111]

The unconscious can be made conscious with effort. It changes. The subconscious on the other hand can never be made conscious. It’s common to all. It’s the thing you talk to when you talk to yourself. Like when you miss the exit on the freeway. We all do the same thing. We start to talk to something that doesn’t exist. It’s the 0 that allows the change to happen. Think about it, something has to remain fixed or you wouldn’t know change. Thighs change it doesn’t. It’s also completely unknown other than the fact that it has to exist.

[@Vito58]

Love

[@joehardy6591]

Sans 💀

[@DMAOZO]

a rock is unconscious, brain activity that doesn't reach the threshold for consciousness is subconscious. all subconciousness is unconscious but not all unconsciousness is subconscious.

[@amanofnoreputation2164]

There are unconscious archetypes aplenty, but there are also subconscious -- that it to say autonomous -- archetypes as well. The autonomous archetype par excellance is the soul: the hieros gamos of the Divine Syzygy that is typified by the anima in most males and the animus in most females. (Though the opposite is more obscurly accessible as well.) Andorgenous or hermaphorditic manifestations are also known, mut it's all still basically the same thing: the interior independent awareness of the non-ego psyche.

[@PeverellTheThird]

Different dialects of the same language(?) Subconscious = Personal conscious/unconscious "Universal energy field" = Collective conscious/unconscious

[@harrydeanbrown6166]

Great info as usual. I would plead, however, for the creator to eliminate all music in his videos. There is no reason for the music. It does not support the info but instead distracts the viewer from the info. Thanks.

[@joym.8905]

“Unconscious” is simply not accurate. We humans do not function in every mode of awareness, but we still insist on the right to be the arbiter of definitions. “Sub” has the same problem, but it is slightly less human-centric. Lots of dead white men came up with these terms. Animals don’t communicate like we do. They don’t need to, and do quite well doing existence their way. Yeah, we used to thinks animals don’t have consciousness. They just don’t have ours. A little less hubris please.

[@dethkon]

I think the idea of a “subconscious” is quite ridiculous. I believe that there is an “unconscious,” but it is not subordinate to consciousness.

[@Vooodooolicious]

I guess that is why Jung called it the personal unconscious. I could be wrong but I think that this is a better description of what people mean by the subconscious.

[@dethkon]

@@Vooodooolicious I agree, that is a much better description (so long as it allows for intersubjectivity). Speaking of Jung, I personally don’t believe in a “collective unconscious“ that exists as more than a kind of analogy or metaphor, but if “Desire is the Desire of the Other“ then it makes sense to me that all consciousnesses and unconsciousnesses must inform and effect all other ones to some degree (via language, etc).

[@Vooodooolicious]

@@dethkon That is a key part of Jung's personal unconscious.

[@JasonLaveKnotts]

There is no subconscious.

[@muhammadasad7578]

You are all great but sometimes your language is hard to pick, as we are foreigners, we are not used to complex terminologies of English. Philosophy is already abstract, please make straightforward, concrete and easier to understand

[@cj548]

Subconscious is things, not in your conscience ,but, that you can discover about your being. Unconscious is things that you will never ever become aware of ever

[@psychosophy6538]

> Unconscious is things that you will never ever become aware of ever. ...unless someone points them out to you. And if they never show up, who is then able to perceive them and claim they exist if neither the person who hosts the unconscious mind, nor the others can do it?

[@cj548]

@@psychosophy6538 like I said. The unconscious is things that you can never become aware of. Try high dose of lsd if you're still verydum in psychology