Can We Save Solanum?

Hello everyone! Im very surprised it took me so long to think about this. But following the quantum rules may make it possible for us to save our friend! With a rescue plan ready. We just have to ask ourselves. Is it even ok to do?
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[@felixp535]

Update: The devs fixed this issue in a recent patch. Having a picture of the 6th location now locks you in the 6th location. Exiting by the vortex just brings you back to Solanum. That's great news for the game's consistency, not so much for Solanum...

[@TheLoreExplorer]

Solanum still has some hope friend. It just revolves around us hijacking a warp core or two. No worries!

[@beterbomen]

@@TheLoreExplorer Well, in that case, you'll have to make a follow-up video.

[@cinfdef]

Then we'd hypothetically take a screenshot soley of her face, as that is an alive face, but you wouldn't have the rest of the Quantum Moon in the frame (so it isn't being "observed" in that moment) Yes if we try to see the quantum moon but something like a planet passes in front of us it still remains, andI think this is an oversight and simply meant for easier gameplay. By all means of logic she should remain alive whilst allowing you to leave the Quantum Moon. Any explanation to say that a reflection of the moon, no matter how faint, results in you not leaving means that we shouldn't even be able to leave the moon in the first place when at the sixth location (as the light of the surface will constantly be hitting you no matter how diffused it is in the clouds/vortex) We should still be able to save her!

[@samuelbarrett1082]

I was going to say, I recently played outer wilds and tried exactly this. I just came back to the 6th location moon. I was just trying to escape to the eye though. Didn't think about saving solanum.

[@GrantGryczan]

@@cinfdef Solanum alive is an entangled state with the quantum moon at the sixth location. If you're observing her alive, you're also observing the sixth location of the quantum moon.

[@thechosenone9910]

The No-communication bit could be solved if we managed to yoink a projection staff off of the Stranger.

[@binathiessen4920]

Good idea. There is a staff in the artifact lab by the breach. We just need to reset it and pick it up.

[@nickster5207]

There is literally a mod that allows you to do this. It's called "The Vision", you should try it.

[@thechosenone9910]

@@nickster5207 Already did. Wrote the comment before the vision was made. Cool ideas the creator had

[@nickster5207]

@@thechosenone9910 Fairly certain the mod author looked at this video and went "This would make a cool mod"

[@thechosenone9910]

@@nickster5207 Makes sense

[@pablozurita2996]

Damn, i want this to be a secret ending ;-; Imagine bringing solanum to the eye of the universe, and having them be able to see what her clan has been searching for

[@dakabaka4912]

A beautiful ending.

[@pablozurita2996]

@@dakabaka4912 agreed

[@himbalodzodenever]

Fuck it let me bring my boy the prisoner too

[@pablozurita2996]

@@himbalodzodenever quickly, get into the ship computer, no time to expain

[@spaceerror_3571]

@@himbalodzodenever but the prisoner is dead dead in every version of real life. He and all inhabitants are ghosts in machine, you can’t bring him to the eye of universe unless you figure out how to get his conscious connected to a new functional body.

[@Jman0163]

god, jetting off from the 6th location and landing right in front of the corpse of the person you were just talking to hit HARD

[@purplenanite]

Imagine what would happen if you lugged a memory statue over to Solanum. Gabbro was able to haul them over to the museum, so it should be possible. How many people could you save with them, and who would it be?

[@Eira_]

also shouldn't it theoretically be possible to communicate with Solanum by stealing a vision staff from the Stranger? We know the Hatchling can use them just fine so they should be able to just grab one from the stranger, head to the 6th location and project their memories to Solanum just like they did with the Prisoner

[@almogz9486]

@@Eira_ you Are forgetting a crucial detail the vision rod only worked in the simulation we don't know if vision rods work the same irl or if any of them are still working the one we saw had a flame on we don't see on on other rods

[@samuelsimpson7452]

@@almogz9486 The artifact lab has some real, not-simulated vision torches. But indeed, we don't know if the hatchling would be able to operate them, or if they can function without the Stranger's computer network.

[@almogz9486]

@@samuelsimpson7452 yeah too many uknowns we know the hearthian in the simulation is independent of the real hearthian as one can die while the other lives. The question is can vision rods work on all brains or is it just that in the simulation all brains are converted to a standardized version of a simulated brain that allows them all to interact. As in it is possible that vision rods are uncomplex and work only between two owlek brains. But the simulation is so sophisticated that it can convert even hearthian brain to the same system used to simulate owlek brains allowing all brain in the simulation to interact

[@TheLoreExplorer]

You can find a vision rod in the real world. It works. They are left in the artifact testing laboratory chambers.

[@harley2938]

To communicate that final plan to Solanum: 1. Put the Eye of the Universe one pedestal and stack "You" and "Me" on the other. 2. Move "You" and "Me" to the Eye. 3. Hold out your hand.

[@alexxace7743]

you can stack the stones on one other???

[@TheLoreExplorer]

They are just saying place them on the ground and move them.

[@ARandomMonitor]

My new official unofficial ending: 1 - Go set the prisoner free with codes brute forced over god knows how many cycles, otherwise he might be trapped till the universe collapses or the power runs out. Give Owl boy a hug, he needs it. 2 - Visit Solanum, present question as you’ve described. Grab and lift, get back on ship and fly to Ash Twin. 3 - Get Warp Core. 4 - Go to the Vessel. 5 - Enjoy the ride with your new friend at the center of the universe.

[@UrosFred]

Im not sure but wouldnt Solanum be dead when leaving the 6th location?

[@UrosFred]

Sorry I mean it would break spacetime because then there would be multiple versions of Solanum

[@FranklinThe1]

wait if we take a pic of the quantum moons sixth location and leave through the vortex and end up in the timber hearth quantum moon then isn't the sixth location version still being observed and thus is still there? Does that mean it makes 2 quantum moons? The devs should add an extra ending to where you go through the vortex with the picture and end up at the sixth location.

[@SAIHTAM20Y]

@@AJ-uf4sh but no one is watching constantly the images that the satellite makes

[@wellgaroa]

I think thats deux ex, just plot based, so we don't reach the eye before getting the code and the vessel. Or maybe the vortex follows different rules, like the eye's vortex reads our mind and take us to the hearthian based ancient grove, it turns the quantum moon into hearthian.

[@animarthur5297]

2 quantum moons?! Wouldn't that break spacetime? Another joke ending comfirmed

[@FloorFourteen]

@@animarthur5297 It wouldn't because the quantum objects are actually in every location at the same time but can only be observed and interacted with in one by a conscious observer. That is how Solanum is "not entirely alive" as she suspects. When the Interloper exploded, it killed her at all locations except the sixth location. In regards to the original comment, it wouldn't mean there are two moons, just that it is being observed at two different locations by the same observer. What the implications of that is and if it would kill/drive the observer insane are unknown.

[@_WeDontKnow_]

@@FloorFourteen "that wouldn't mean there are two moons, just that it is being observed at two different locations by the same observer" the very act of observing the moon means it's present at that location at that time. if it's being observed at two locations at once, that does indeed mean there are two moons. or two of the same moon. it doesn't make sense because it's a coded game, and this is all stuff the devs didn't expect to consider. they can't get every single thing correct

[@possumweekend]

Yet again, I find myself binging this content.. and I refuse to stop. Thank you for making such in-depth, interesting videos! Time to watch this in its entirety, lol.

[@vardets1032]

ike

[@ImperiaL24]

what if we could get solanum to one of the unused memory statues and sync her memories with the atp? that would be an interesting idea to explore...

[@TheLoreExplorer]

Wed have to get past this obstacle first. Otherwise the statue would just record her standing there.

[@DeathofHeavens]

probably wouldn't work since the statutes activate the moment the prob finds the eye which only happens once

[@TheLoreExplorer]

The statues are setup to activate the moment the probe finds the eye. But they don’t deactivate in the next loop. Whoever gets close to them will pair. I asked the lead dev.

[@jacktheripper7735]

@@TheLoreExplorer oh dang, that's cool. I didn't think about if the statues reacted after the loop where the probe finds the eye

[@hatsjer]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who asked this, but what if you took a close up picture of Solanum, so only she was present in the picture, and you didn't see the background? That way you could have a picture of Solanum, while not having a picture of the QM, allowing you to leave.

[@fraser3316]

I think that maybe the reason for Solanum being a skeleton when we jump through the vortex is because she would have aged if she had been on the Timber Hearth moon that whole time. Since the Eye version of the Quantum moon is the only one that messes with time as far as we know, I think it's safe to assume that if Solanum were to be taken from the Eye moon to the Timber Hearth moon, she would age as if she had been on the Timber Hearth moon that whole time. Idk if this is right but it's my best guess

[@dewhi100]

I always thought that she was dead in the other states because only the sixth location was safe from the ghost matter.

[@alicoon]

@@dewhi100 thats the reason, not because the time, the time passes the same i think you can still die in the six location

[@dewhi100]

@@alicoon It still doesn't explain how the Solanum instance at the sixth location is still alive, nor how the hatchling can achieve quantum enlightenment. It must be something to do with some (but not all) of your possible states dying while quantum entangled. Perhaps you never unentangle. It's a head scratcher

[@alicoon]

@@dewhi100 no, she did die, but in reality there are 6 solanums so the one you see its alive because she didnt get caught by the ghost shit

[@dewhi100]

@@alicoon If it were that simple, the last Solanum would have died of other causes by the time we find her. It's not six copies. It's one person in six states simultaneously.

[@23fallout16]

Awesome! I love the Nomai and Solanum is one of the best as you can find walls of Solanum talking as a kid and then you find Solanum unexpectedly alive at the south pole.

[@ccheyenne]

Yeah I love that by the time you find her you've basically gotten to know her and her journey. She's the player's emotional anchor to the Nomai, I love how well they pulled that off.

[@23fallout16]

@@ccheyenne It is one of my favorite parts of Outer wilds.

[@deeplyt00ting]

So, I think I wanna add my two cents to this, and this will be a long winded explanation so bear with me. TL;DR: No, it's entirely impossible given the current state of the universe in game. Long Answer: This is gonna be a doozy to explain, but it kinda makes sense. To start with, a refresher on the laws of physics, specifically on Hawking Radiation and the first law of Thermodynamics. We'll start with the more familiar of the two. The first law of Thermodynamics can basically be boiled down to "Energy and matter cannot be created from nothing, nor destroyed into nothing" meaning that you can't pull a marshmallow out of thin air (despite marshmallows being like 90% air), you would need to use energy equivalent to the energy content of the marshmallow to create one. However, on the sub-sub-sub-sub atomic level, virtual particles exist, there are virtual particles that can blip into and out of existence to and from literally nothing, the caveat is that they appear in pairs, one positively charged, one negatively charged. These particles appear and just as quickly (speed of light levels of quick) collide with one another annhiliating each other, disappearing entirely. While in this virtual state they have no mass nor energy, so there is no violation of Thermodynamics. This is directly related to Hawking Radiation, these particles can blip in and out pretty much anywhere in the universe, including near the event horizon of a black hole. However, remember the black hole's defining trait, nothing, not even light can escape it. This means when these particles blip into existence near a black hole, one is guaranteed to fall into the black hole while the other is ejected away from the black hole. This forces the particles to become real, and such, the energy equivalent of these two particles is subtracted from the black hole's total amount of energy. This means idle black holes slowly radiate away into nothing as their energy is drained away by this process, called Hawking Radiation. Here in lies the problem with your method. When you take a picture of Solanum, you've collapsed the Quantum Moon into certainty at the 6th Location, then by jumping through the vortex, you've also collapsed the Quantum Moon into certainty at Timber Hearth, creating two certain Quantum Moons, and if these virtual sub-atomic particles could become real, there's no reason it can't be upscaled to the level of planets aside from the lack of energy, and that is where the problem lies, there's only two sources of energy to do this process with. The Eye itself, and the Hatchling. We can immediately eliminate the Hatchling as the source of matter/energy because there's no way of creating a whole moon and everything on it from a single Hearthian, the tools it's carrying, and whatever fuel is left in the jetpack when you get there. As for the Eye, considering it's supposed to reset the universe, I doubt the Universe would allow energy to be drained from the one thing controlling it's rebirth cycle. When you appear on Timber Hearth, it's not a sign that the rules of Quantum Knowledge fail, it's a sign that the rules of Quantum Knowledge are superceded by the laws of physics themselves. It's the same problem that the Nomai ran into when powering the ATP, the functionality is sound, just that there is no means to power it, and no means there are considering the Universe is 22 minutes away from death, it can't happen because there is no energy to spare here. Maybe in a younger universe it could work, but that opens a whole other can of worms that I don't wanna get into atm. Also before anyone says "But matter/energy duplication is possible because of the ATP." Yes and no. Yes it does spit out another you, but consider what happens after 22 minutes and you don't complete the loop again.

[@___Yang___]

When we leave the 6th location, time has still passed at the same rate. So I would assume that if Solanum left the 6th location ,even at the same exact time as us, she would return to her original time.

[@ivanooijevaar9259]

What if going trough the vortex distorts the image or makes us close our eyes for a short period? (Or quantizes us to the point where we are not a conscious observer anymore?!) We know from the waking up scene that the moon can teleport the moment we blink (and since we have 4 eyes we do not blink with all at the same time under normal circumstances). If making a picture only keeps the object from changing and does not save the state, it means that you can take a picture, moon stays, look away from picture and back, moon is now locked again but in another location. So when you take the vortex you do not observe the picture and move to timber hearth, where the moon (and solanum) locks into place again. Only Solanum also switched states and is therefore in a dead state. My theory for why we move to TH is that we are a hearthian, so the probability of us existing on the hearthian version of the moon is significantly bigger so the moon mimics TH.

[@apesibe6972]

It's nice seeing that you still cover this game, I can't move on and is been years 😂

[@LionChannel1]

My guess is that bringing her away from the sixth location in any of the other place would break the space time since it would be TWO version of her. All the versions are present but they are apart, and this is fine since only one version of her is present at one time.

[@iabproductionsofficial]

Not necessarily since her other versions are dead, thus leaving her the only possible version to exist so she hasn’t necessarily cloned herself unless you’re referring to a theory where if she were to leave the 6th location there would be one version of her in the outer wilds solar system and the other version still stuck on the moon

[@awareqwx]

Quantum objects behave differently than the time portals. Take the museum shard on the three stumps, for example. There is only one shard, it just happens to be in a superposition of those three states until you look at it. Nothing you can do to the shard will make it duplicate itself since there is only one of them. If we could carry Solanum out of the quantum moon, then the skeletons should theoretically disappear from the other versions since they will have turned out to be the "wrong" version of her and would no longer be entangled with it in that way, the same way you never run into a copy of yourself while running around the quantum moon.

[@iabproductionsofficial]

@@awareqwx interesting!!!!

[@awareqwx]

@@iabproductionsofficial Unless, of course, as Lore Explorer has mentioned elsewhere, Solanum has herself become a quantum object and will spontaneously die 5/6 of the time when unobserved, only to resurrect on the remaining 1/6 times

[@iabproductionsofficial]

@@awareqwx which is a scary but interesting theory, hopefully the outer wilds devolpers make a 2nd game with a new solar system on the brink of its next reset

[@AstralS7orm]

Unfortunately this breaks the universe - you made a copy of Solanum (because one is still on Quantum Moon in 6th location), much like with Self. Big Universe Kaboom. Even if you made Solanum leave in a shuttle via warp.

[@Demonskunk]

Sadly, I think Solanum has been on the quantum moon long enough that she has become intrinsically quantum, like the stones found across the Galaxy.

[@heartbeat_root]

I think there is a really high chance of this too, but her Shuttle can be recalled and then no longer exists on the Quantum Moon, so either Warping "cures" the Quantum state or both her and her shuttle should behave like a Quantum Shard when not observed and collapse between the five other version of it on other versions of the Quantum Moons. Actually, I just realised that when you recall the Shuttle from the Brittle Hollow Canon rather than from recalling the shuttle to the Canon from the Moon (in other words, the other way around), you are recalling all versions of the shuttle at once and combining them into one singular "thing". If the Sixth Location's Solanum were to go in the Shuttle and be warped to the Canon, a very similar thing would happen to her! Although, since her five other fractions would still remain on the Quantum Moon, I'm not sure what it would do... Another thing that could be tried (if a bit morbid) is putting the five bodies in the five versions of the shuttle and recalling them as well as her, but there could not be a shuttle for everyone as, as far as I know, there is no shuttle at the sixth location, so there is only five shuttle, for six states of Solanum...

[@udontknowme9699]

Dude thank you so much. Always a pleasure to watch your videos. Feeling so connected to Outer Wilds and to you!

[@NomekopLightspeed]

I for one, have to recommend the Outer Wilds fanfic, "Team Effort", which kinda aligns somewhat with this idea, and actually gives a good reason for it to be done, which aligns with the DLC.

[@this_fellow]

i love that fanfic to death, man it's still ongoing too

[@DakkaBert]

I don't see the point of trying to save solanum, for all intents and purposes she exists as a ghost. Also, taking her to any other location than the sixth would cause her to default to her natural state, which is dead. She actually *is* dead. I seriously doubt a normal nomai has a 280,000 year lifespan, its just that her image and memories at the specific situation of her just having landed are preserved due to the quantum weirdness of the eye. Also, we actually do save her in the end, and her memories contribute to establishing a brand new species.

[@orphieforce3866]

7:35 or it could be because we were born on timer hearth so solanum would go to Ember twin's version? maybe?

[@orphieforce3866]

@@AJ-uf4sh maybe I mean the QM is mysterious so

[@orphieforce3866]

@@AJ-uf4sh how do you know? The Eye can make versions of the people we met to make them appear example solanum doesn't exist if we haven't met her but if we have

[@classic9567]

also if someone is wondering why the vortex always goes to timber hearth, i think it's because the eye has also a vortex, and when you go into it, guess where it leads you, yeah the observatori, and thats on timber hearth, so i think thats also a "reflection" of the eye.

[@TheLoreExplorer]

Yeah. I often forget people may not have seen all my videos. Thats in the explainer Im pretty sure. The question is still just why. The first response "cause we wish really hard" is just a silly way to say because our memories. And the probability thing may be the reason too. Its still kind of a mystery as to why we get brought to the observatory. And in the case of the eye (and qm) there would be no readon it would bring solanum to the same place it brings us. Wed need to know why it all happens to work out where solanum would go.

[@classic9567]

@@TheLoreExplorer yeah

[@tank19768]

It is a bit strange how the picture at the sixth location seems to break the quantum rules... it does make one wonder exactly how the quantum moon's reflection of the Eye works. Perhaps if the Eye allows us to observe the whole universe in all quantum possibilities, its reflection allows us to view all versions of the quantum moon? At that point it wouldn't matter if we were looking at the picture since we'd be seeing every iteration anyway. And then it's influenced by the hatchling's memories to pick Timber Hearth similar to when we end up in the museum and glade when we enter the Eye? I guess since this is the only situation where we could have a picture of an object that differs to its current position, perhaps it actually isn't breaking the rules and all that matters is the fact you're continuously observing it? It is still the same object after all even if you're observing a different iteration of it. Or perhaps the sixth location specifically has special properties due to it being close to the Eye that actually does allow it to exist in another state even when it's being observed? That might be an explanation for why we get our memories pulled back by the ATP when at the sixth location despite time acting non-relative on the moon for improper observers who've perished on the other iterations such as Solanum. Of course it's a lot easier and more probable to just say "the Devs just didn't think of it", but it's fun to speculate. If any of those are the case however, I doubt it would be possible to save Solanum unfortunately.

[@VeeFerns]

i think that if you could convince her to go with you to the shrine (maybe you spent a few millon loops develping the translator to work two ways idk), then when you are in there you take a photo of just her and the shrine, keeping the floor, the door, and the wall that shows where the quantum moon is out of frame, then turn out the lights, when you turn them back on you should theoretically be on another location of the quantum moon, where you can find her ship and pilot that off the quantum moon. it's kinda hard to be sure about this though because there isnt anywhere else where you could test something like this, I'm not even entirely sure i understand how her becoming quantum entangled in that way works in the first place, because, let's say the ghost matter hit as soon as she existed her ship, she would have been observing the moon when she died, making it's form, and because she was entangled with it, hers too, certain, meaning the moon only stopped being observed, and thus it's possibilites were no longer collapsed, after she died of the ghost matter, so shouldn't she be dead in all possibilities then? the only way what we see ingame could make sense (at least to my understanding) is if she somehow stopped being an observer before the ghost matter hit, which could make sense if, for example she was looking at her ship's floor, and that took uo her whole vision, couldn't see out the window, couldn't see out the exit, but we can create this exact sinareo ingame with both her ship and ours, but that doesn't happen, and this is where we need to get into game design territory, we already know that there have been oversights in the game that were patched to make sense with the canon, the whole thing with a picture of the eye's moon counting as timber's moon is one of them, but i don't know. edit: what even what, this thing i wrote makes no sense

[@GrantGryczan]

You did break a quantum rule, the rule of quantum imaging. Taking a picture of Solanum at the sixth location of the quantum moon should prevent the quantum moon from entering the Timber Hearth state. Edit: And apparently it does as of a patch.

[@Geostrategeek]

I think having met Solanum is a game changer at the end of the game because it preserve sentient life (I don't think you see the campfire in the final picture without having met her)

[@jango5550]

So, here's a head scratcher: How can the quantum moon exist in the other locations if Solanum is constantly observing it in the 6th?

[@heartbeat_root]

That right here is one of the most convincing argument that Solanum no longer counts as a "Conscious Observer" for whatever reason. One of the most compelling to me is that she is neither Dead nor Alive, she is both. Maybe that makes it so she only counts when she is consciously observed herself observing the Quantum Moon (as this is her only "Alive and Conscious" state); in other words, she has become quantum herself, just like the Quantum Moon and the Quantum Shards.

[@greyfox32_5]

Isn't this just schrodinger's theorem? Solanum is both alive and dead with the quantum moon in the 6th location and timber hearth at the same time until you collapse the possibilities into a certainty. However instead of one box with a cat inside, it's two boxes with one dead cat and one alive cat with a slipnslide connecting them. Say you bring the alive cat to the dead cat, there is an alive conscious observer observing it's own dead state, which means divide by 0, total annihilation, everything goes kaput. Those pesky paradoxes, always stopping us from messing with the laws of physics. I suppose since solanum is entangled with the timber hearth quantum moon along with her dead self at this point, nothing would happen due to quantum entanglement. But if she were to leave the quantum moon with the hearthian and then remember her dead self while not entangled, or look at an image that shows her dead self on one of the possible quantum moons, then causality would have a stroke.

[@TheLoreExplorer]

Imo not really. Schrodinger came up with that thought experiment to prove this is not what’s happening. Either the air particles are hitting an alive cat. Or a dead one. And in this case it’s even different. There are 6 box’s. And in 5 are dead cats. In 1 is an alive cat. It’s not really one box one cat one flip on the coin. There is no flip of the coin with solanum. She is 5/6th dead. And when her Skelton is observed she is 1/1 dead. And when her alive version is observed she is 1/1 alive.

[@roryschussler]

On the question of whether Solanum would most likely want to be left alone or brought back: If, as likely, she shares the same scientific ethos as her people, bringing her back is the right choice. Given the choice, most Nomai would never choose to live in blissful ignorance over facing a heartbreaking truth where they get to learn more about the universe.

[@petermatis6083]

But Solanum died on the south pole. Which would indicate she was hit with Ghost matter the moment she stepped off ther shuttle. Which would also be the reason why she didn't age. She even expresses it herself that she doesn't feel alive. She'd be forever stuck as the same age she is now, with questionable consciousness. The moment you stop observing her she would probably revert back to the initial state. And we know this becuase she resets between visits.

[@gwabababa]

I love that u keep uploading outer wilds content! Have u had the chance to the test the vr mod nomai vr?

[@TikkaQrow]

If she's at the campfire at the end she's been saved. In the same way that she's alive when you meet her on the moon. The power of the Eye, it's quantum entanglement with the multiverse, allows the Hatchling to entangle the people they met thru their life. From WHEN they come from no longer matters. Time doesn't exist in the Eye. The Gloaming Galaxy Nomai may have even lived on, using dyson spheres to preserve their limited stars for millions/billions of years yet. But everyone around the campfire lived past them, singing the next one into existence, while also dying long before the Gloaming Nomai.

[@theoppedrubberduck2287]

I think this is because it is truly orbiting the eye which is technically different than other quantum objects Or the eye is manipulating solanums possibilities to give the player information because more possibilities will lead to the eyes path Last guess is that technically you never go to a place that is not at the eye, what I mean by this is that while On the quantum moon while going through the mist you stop observing it and it brings your memories of where you remember it being into being through using you as an observer but since you technically are only being shown this and are not able to make a more definitive quantum change it can not do as much since it only mimics the eye which makes solanum not actually alive and that all being what the dampened eye does In summary of that last one Solanum isn’t really there you are always on the quantum moon and the mimicked eye is weaker which makes it try to accomplish its goal by using quantum probability in your favor to ensure the as you said promise to the universe

[@CatCraftYT]

Maybe you don't go back to the Timber Hearth QM, but it reflects the eye's 'memory reading' properties so you see TH but are actually still at the sixth location

[@TheLoreExplorer]

I tested it. When we leave we plop out around timber hearth. With the moon orbiting it.

[@eckoratt]

Outer wilds is one of the few- who am i kidding, the ONLY game that would make sense and I WISH would have BLINKING as a feature.

[@magetsalive5162]

There's an Outer Wilds fanfiction that delves into this topic. It's called "Team Effort", and it hasn't updated since April, but it's still pretty good. Any internet search with "outer wilds team effort" ought to get you to it fairly easily.

[@FuzzyImages]

I can't help but think though that this only makes her alive form stable when being observed... Imagine having to go through the rest of your life having to have some one watching you AT ALL TIMES!

[@cbandit7715]

Wh my canr we just take a picture and she follows us into the elavator and we do r need to teleport her

[@Bi_scotti_5]

I'm guessing it would take up too much memory if the game had to keep track of Solunum, along with the ship, probe, and the player character at the same time.

[@karmageddon9047]

hypothesis that if you take her corpse from one of the possibilities, take it to the sixth location, leave it there, an take her back to timberhearthe, the possibilities become swapped? Though, if that happens, then time will align that, if her alive self was on timberhearthe, then she may drop dead from ghost matter poisoning.. Another Question: What if you take a statue to her, and allow her to connect with it? What happens then?

[@TheLoreExplorer]

To move from moon to moon we would have to stop observing everything. And so the skeleton “version” we have of her would disappear before we made it to the 6th location. The only reason I thought it’d work for the 6th version is because we can leave through the vortex while observing things. But recently the dev has stated that this wouldn’t work. The 6th versions vortex would just lead back to the 6th version of the moon if we tried to leave with a picture of solanum. The statue is a good question. Tbh I’m not entirely sure. We do know the statues are capable of connecting to the qm even though nothing else can(think every signal being blocked once we land.) If I had to guess. I’d say she would connect to the statue. But sadly. This wouldn’t change anything. She is still incapable of leaving. And the 22 minutes would feel like 1 second to her. My BEST idea after having this idea shot down by the devs. Is a portable warp core. If we take her picture. Then force HER only to use the warp core. We should be able to force her certain possibility to stay the alive. And move her from the qm. Hopefully that would work. But basically. We will never know.

[@struanpeat5116]

I haven't seen this through so ill give my theory and edit with some post view thoughts Suppose you travel to where the eye is, either using your ship or the nomai one, photograph the moon there and fly in, retaining the photograph (maybe my printing it off and keeping a copy on hand) then either using a ship or your jetpack, pull solanum up out of the vortex while looking at the picture This would work because while she's on the quantum moon any possibility could be real, and leaving the eye moon will mean that the possibility of her always having been at the eye moon will become the reality and the quantum possibilities will collapse. I should also say that the moon will stay in the eye moon because of the picture taken, so no need to piggyback on the timber heath moon Okay, so having watched, the only correction i need to make, dont jump into the vortex, we only need to leave through the regular clouds, since that will take us out into the eye instead of taking us to a different version of the moon Perhaps using some nomai warp tech from the ship you could get out like this, but im no expert there The issue with your attempts to save her is that you photographed solanum instead of the moon as a whole, taking a picture of the moon at the eye locks it there and means that if solanum leaves by any means, she's alive after untangling eith the moon

[@FranklinThe1]

wow two videos within short time.

[@TheFireball127]

I believe that solonam is always dead. The version at the 6th location isn't solanum. It's a similar entity to the version you see at the end of the game at the Grove. I think solonum in all possibilities died at one of the core 5 locations and the eye is projecting her memories/consciousness at the 6th in order to help you find the eye itself in the end

[@TheFireball127]

@@AJ-uf4sh I was trying to say she never existed there in the first place. The 6th location version isn't solonum. Its the eyes version of solanum. Just like the versions in the Grove. The eye scans your memories and presents itself as people you know ( since solanum and the prisoner only show up if you meet them before the end of the game) what if the quantum moon is an extension of the eye, but bc of this it doesn't have the same powers as the eye itself and instead scans the consciousness of the people who visit it and can have that version talk to future or past visitors.

[@gluipertje]

@@TheFireball127 The only problem with this theory, however, is that she can tell you information you yourself havent discovered yet. Thus, the version of Solanum present on the sixth location can not just be a representation of your own consciousness. The fact that the quantum moon can still visit other locations with her supposedly observing it at the sixth location does imply she is not conscious anymore however. Might actually be one of the only plot holes in the entire story...

[@lisafenixx]

I love how you explore these concepts, it's so trippy! For some reason I hadn't thought about this before and taking a snapshot of her... dang. lol the kidnapping line made me laugh too

[@elmagikarpmamadisimo9774]

Now it is fixed, but I thought it was really strange the Quantum Moon could change location with a picture of it in the sixth location. A thing I discovered is that if you are in the sixth location and the supernova happens and you jump in the vortex when no planets remain but the Eye of the Universe, you will stay in the sixth location because the Moon is not able to orbit the other planets (because they're gone).

[@tutacat]

We cannot write in Nomai though.

[@TheLoreExplorer]

We can translate it and with a living nomai nearby we could quickly learn. Also , there is a dlc think Im not sure youve played.

[@bugholdersepiphany]

Given how the ending where you're trapped on the quantum moon originally caused the game to error out before it was patched, yeah, it seems to be an oversight.

[@hannahtgp9421]

I think this theory should be reworked now that the new update is out

[@TheLoreExplorer]

The only way to do it now would be to high jack a warp core. Somehow make it portable. And force her to go through the black hole while we have a picture.

[@lethequin]

Hypothesis: Solanum experiences the agonising pain of the ghost matter every single time she closes her eyes, thoughts?

[@TheLoreExplorer]

I dont think so. I dont see anything related to the quantum phenomenon that would cause that

[@buzznoodle9737]

Has anybody else noticed the mask solanum wears while alive is a different colour to the masks on her dead bodies at the other locoations? Seems a little weird and I haven't been able to come up with any explanation.

[@HardDanX]

Solanum doesn't determine Quantum Moon's state, meaning she doesn't have conscious. She probably became some sort of quantum puppet, that tries to act normal based on her memories. Proposition: when Interloper blew up, Solanum was in the dark, in the shrine, at the north of the Moon. Being in 6 states at ones, 5 of her states died while she was quantum. Somehow, this led to her losing conscious and becoming part dead, part "alive". Actually, theoretically, protagonist can do the same by shutting down the ATP and doing the same, waiting for Sun to explode. There is an ending where you live eternally on the sixth location, but that's strange, do you really become immortal there? That ending also should be possible while being quantum in the shrine, but mechanics of the game actually don't put you in all possible states, it just teleports you the moment you covered by darkness.

[@cbandit7715]

So fun omg

[@lunavarion]

You made a flawed assumption. You assumed that every skeleton on the different versions of the Quantum Moon is Solanum. There's absolutely no evidence of that. The Quantum Moon was a pilgrimage for all Nomai in this system. Who's to say those skeletons aren't each different Nomai who failed their pilgrimage? That would explain why they still exist, even with a picture of the living Solanum.

[@Shadow01974]

Wait, so when the sun supernovas, do all other versions of the quantum moon get destroyed? If so wouldnt that lock Solanum in as her alive self since the only version that could possibly still exist is her alive self? I might be misunderstanding things

[@heartbeat_root]

I believe that after how long Solanum has lapsed on the Quantum Moon in a state of superposition, she might have became truly quantum herself, just like the Quantum Moon is quantum because of its proximity to the Eye. If that is the case, there is no coming back from that, she will forever act like a quantum shard when not observed by anyone.

[@Shadow01974]

Basically what i get out of this video is that its possible to save Solanum, without breaking quantum laws, but you must break a few international laws.

[@gabiruman]

I've always found it weird that you have to take a picture of the moon to land on it. You're not loosing it out of sight, you are looking at it when you try to land, then why is the picture necessary? It's true you go through the fog, but that fog is still part of it's atmosphere no? Maybe the explanation is that only the rock on the moon is quantum not the atmosphere, idk.

[@Millticker]

Well, I think that all the other veirson of solanum WERE solanum so if all other veirson of her died yet still WERE her Whats left? It cant be ALL of her right? She became quantum which means she WAS all the other veirsons.

[@Buh526]

Personally I think the reason you go to timber hearth no matter what is because if the quantum moon is truly a reflection of the eye, then the vortex at the 6th location takes you to the "ancient glade" and youll meet solanum there. Both possibilities are infact 100% true. This is just the most realistic laziest way the universe is trying to solve the dillema without breaking itself.

[@TheLoreExplorer]

Yeah. I was more asking why it takes us where it takes us. Because to find out where solanum would end up wed need to know what the eye(and the qm) uses to take us places. Its likely our memories or something to do with possibilities. But unless we knew we cant work out where the vortex would take solanum.

[@Buh526]

@@TheLoreExplorer Thinking on it, maybe the act of observing solanum and trying to leave is the reason you see the dead solanum because a concious unentangled observer forces the quantum object to act normally meaning that by going through the vortex you essentially kill them but they are still alive because you are observing them alive so essentially if you could guide them by the hand, and go into the quantum tower and just fly off in your ship or through the sky they would be alive upon exit but inside the quantum moon they would still be dead because time has not caught up with you observing them dead/being dead but does it really work like that? I mean if you took a picture of dead solanum and went to the sixth location why wouldnt she be dead? It just teleporting you to the dead body of her could mean she was pre-determined to be dead yet since time doesnt work the way it does usually on the quantum moon with it seemingly being "flexible". what would happen if you went to solanum with a picture of them dead? would they be dead? if they were alive when you arrived with the picture being observed then there would be no reason you couldnt waltz off with solanum because it means that there is no predetermination for this scenario. If she is dead when you have the picture then she cannot escape. So yeah if it works both ways and you can observe them dead and still talk to them, and observer them alive while they are dead then they can infact escape. You can't really see her alive with the picture of her being dead because the picture also observes the quantum moon sadly. However, merely by the fact you cannot possibly go to the sixth location whilst holding a picture of her, this means you can infact escape with her. This is due to the fact you cannot go to her while observing her dead. You see she does not exist alive while you are observing her dead because the moon is not in its sixth location, yet she does exist alive due to the nature of this quantum scenario. By observing her alive you also negate the existence of her being dead, yet simultaneously do not negate her death. The act of going to the quantum moons "ancient glade" kills her because it is the reflection of the eye of the universe. It could be that because after the solar system is destroyed the eye orbits the eye of the universe, but inevitably its orbit decays meaning she too would inevitably enter, forever stuck as a quantum object unable to observe, effectively just being information and "dead". Anyway my head hurts but the point is its possible because all outcomes of her being alive or dead are sort of in a weird infinite superposition. So i think the real question is if asked "would she be alive or dead if you took her out of the quantum moon, the answer would be "yes" I have no clue if any of this makes any sense so im going to return into the void now

[@thatwardrobeguy]

i have a feeling that solanum *isnt* actually alive, because if she was, she would be a conscious observer and both her and the quantum moon shouldve been collapsed. ps: solanums body shouldnt decompose on the outer wilds quantum moon possibilities, since all time is collapsed into one present

[@Ultimaximus]

I love these insane ideas, like saving Solanum, or duplicating yourself to reverse engineer Nomai tech to save your entire race, they're great

[@brendansmith7703]

Perhaps you are locking Solanum AND the quantum moon. Meaning, you are locking solanum on the quantum moon

[@wolfeyeforever]

When your quantum mechanics game is better than the devs. Good thinkin, bro :-)

[@Cave____]

Wouldn’t 8:53 just be you technically breaking fabric of space and time since in theory the moon is in the 6th location and also in a different location not even to add that technically there should be a dead ancient traveler and also an alive one

[@J7Handle]

Due to dying on every version of QM except the sixth, I can’t imagine Solanum leaving the sixth location via any quantum means. Edit: my reasoning is that you can’t become quantum entangled with the same object twice without breaking the first entanglement beforehand. I can, however, imagine leaving via physical means. Either by breaching the sixth’s upper atmosphere to space around the Eye, or opening a wormhole by creating a new warp pad with cores salvaged from the High Energy Lab on Ember Twin.

[@TheLoreExplorer]

Here’s the thing. When you entangle with an object, specifically in this instance the qm, YOU become 6 people. 6 different versions. All as real as the others. Until observed. At which point they become THE one. Essentially when we observe her she is no longer entangled as entanglement requires non observation. So entanglement with the first initial object would be broken as well.

[@ccheyenne]

But you can't leave through the clouds at the Eye, you always appear back in the known solar system. So if you could drag her off the Quantum Moon with you I think she would turn into her version from whatever planet you originally landed on, i.e. dead. I love the idea but I don't think she can be saved BECAUSE we can't exit into the space around the Eye. If you could, the Nomai would have been able to visit the Eye and they never managed it. That's why they built the Ash Twin Project.

[@J7Handle]

@@ccheyenne exactly why I suggested the warp pad. That's my primary idea for saving Solanum, bypassing the clouds of the sixth location. Btw, my expectation for jumping into the clouds at the sixth location while having a picture of it would be for the picture to vanish or be replaced by a different photo upon entering the vortex, as it can be said that a photo of a quantum object is a quantum object itself and can therefore change between observations. Incidentally, I think the QM should also change locations between observations of the photos at the Radio Tower on Timber Hearth (both in real life and in the photos). A warp pad would get by the problem in my opinion as having a warp pad somewhere in the solar system and one at the Quantum Moon would change a few things. First of all, the warp pad at the Quantum Moon would become entangled and therefore exist in all 6 locations. Solanum activating the warp pad at the Sixth location would, however, constitute an observation, bringing her back alive.

[@TheLoreExplorer]

But thats the thing Carla. Once we observe her there should no longer be a dead version of her. To travel on a quantum object you need to entangle with it. This requires getting on top of it and non observation(why it needs to be dark). And once that is met it splits you into the many versions. But once youre observed(the lights come on). Youre no longer entangled. And so not split. Which is why we pop up in one spot. But if in the middle of this. When we are split into 6 possibilities. (Which all exist until observed). And if we are sitting in that state. Sitting there in the dark. If someone came in and shined a flashlight on us. We should be observed. And so certain. And so we shouldnt revert to any other version of ourself(which shouldnt even exist anymore given the rules of observation). And of course. The whole caveat is we simply dont know what would really happen. But logic dictates this is sound reasoning. At least enough to try.

[@J7Handle]

@@TheLoreExplorer That's real world quantum physics. In the game, observing a quantum object only collapses the possibilities until it stops being observed, then it returns to the quantum state it was in previously. However, it is possible to remove objects and beings permanently from the quantum state by removing them from the vicinity of the quantum object they're entangled with, so that they no longer need to be observed. Solanum would need to be observed continuously until she is beyond the influence of the QM in order to be permanently saved.

[@ChrisMazzerbo]

Yeah, I think that's an an oversight. Maybe the devs knew about this when they made the vortex send you bck to Timber Hearth, but it would have made warping to the Eye possible without getting the coordinates, and I'm not sure adding a loading zone in the vortex would have pleased them very much. Another fun oversight I thought of while watching your "Eye mechanics explained" video (from before Echoes of the Eye) : once you jump into the black hole on the ATP, you get sent back 22 minutes, and break the fabric of spacetime if the "next" you doesn't do it again, as that would break causality. But, that can't be right ? If us jumping into the hole sends us *back* 22 minutes, why isn't Self visible from the very first loop ? Obviously there's no garantee a player would or wouldn't jump into the black hole which is why the devs would have no way of solving this problem, bur it's still fun to think about nonetheless. Awesome seeing these videos pop up every so often, I watch every time you release a new one and it's always worth while! (P.S, small request for a future Cool Sights video, maybe, I'd love to see how far the Eye's smoke goes, I don't know if there's a better mod than the super flash light but I can never seem to see the whole thing as I'm flying around)

[@ChrisMazzerbo]

@@AJ-uf4sh I see, I guess my idea of how the Self incident worked was wrong in the first place. It's mind bending honestly, hard to get right even after watching so many of these videos, so thanks!

[@BladeValant546]

love it

[@tutacat]

I think we're only seeing a recording or hologram of the moon. Maybe a time crystal. Even if it's quantum entangled, that could be a different branching universe you are seeing, or the her past self being alive,

[@TheLoreExplorer]

It is a lot like a hologram or projection. And I do believe that its a sort of branching universe youre hoping through as you jump through moons and states of it. But at the same time it actually is her. Just as much as we are us when we go there! ::D

[@duelz9366]

If only we could photoshop the quantum moon out of the photo!

[@me-lz7jb]

Game: take a shot everytime he says "quantum"

[@rieblox11]

Outer Wilds: The Last Nomai

[@tariman8403]

the sun still explodes after 22 minutes

[@BlueBead]

I haven't played in a while so I could be incorrect, but doesn't the presences of a quantum object slowly make other objects around it quantum too? Like the quantum grove? Humans are complex, but are still made up of the same things that make up rocks and water and minerals, and I assume Hearthians and the Nomai are the same. So my hunch is Solanum _herself_ is quantum after being on the quantum moon for thousands of years. How else could she live so long? So I feel like trying to take her to any _particular_ place would be... difficult. Just like trying to keep any other quantum object contained

[@TheLoreExplorer]

When we stand on a quantum shard and turn off the lights we split into multiple versions of ourself. We become quantum. But As soon as we turn back on the lights ,this collapses us to a single non quantum version. The same should happen to solanum.

[@Mimirai]

I think that taking the picture of the quantum moon while in the quantum position, and then exiting through a vortex that makes sure it's in a different place... should realistically just crash "something". Iykwim. Because then the moon would be observed in two positions simultaneously, while not in the superposition. There'd be two moons, when there can only be one.

[@TheLoreExplorer]

They actually updated the game after I made this video. The vortex simply sends you right back to the 6th location. This would avert all issues.

[@normnorm5749]

If going with this theories To save Solanum you'd need to somehow throw the dead states off the moon. If she didnt took the quantum traits from the moon, If you'll throw out the dead bodies, they wont be quantum anymore They wont be one of the states but since the main quantum object is still on the moon it should disapear. It loses its quantum abilities and isn't part of it anymore. So If you'd get rid of all the dead bodies there will be only alive Solanum left. She'll be the only version so she wont się going elsewhere. But since we see her body on every state of moon its safe to say that she became a part of it. Moon is on mamy place but its one object. If you'd get rid of it on one place it wont exist in others. So sińce Solanum is part of the moon. If you throw her dead body off the moon, she wont be anywhere, not even in the sixth location Idk If all that's makes sense, Is 2:30am talking from me

[@TheLoreExplorer]

The second we observe the alive version it "gets rid of the other versions". They no longer exist. Solanum's alive version became "part of the moon" because she entangled with it. Its all a bit confusing. But simply observing the alive version and removing her from the timeless environment before she could revert to another possibility would work. Wed need warp cores or something for this. But itd work!

[@Gbbb239]

100% chance they didn’t take this into account. You found a glitch. ❤

[@TheLoreExplorer]

@@Gbbb239 funnily enough they had. By the time I found this and emailed the devs to report it the bug was scheduled to be fixed in their next update! Now when we do this the 6th locations vortex spits us right back out. So we exit back out of its vortex on the 6th location! But in theory close enough picture should work!

[@closeben]

The camera/map satellite from Echoes of the Eye also created problems regarding the quantum moon. You can take a photo of a photo of the quantum moon in the radio tower, but the moon still moves around.

[@bjbarlowe]

Once the conscious observer stops observing the photo, the object becomes uncertain again. So the photo in the radio tower doesn’t lock the moon in place because there was no one constantly observing it.

[@closeben]

@@bjbarlowe But what if you take a photo of the photo?

[@TheLoreExplorer]

I don’t think that should cause any issues. Yea. The satellite takes a picture of the qm. But it wasn’t being observed. Once it leaves that location(since it wasn’t observed). That picture of it should become useless.

[@closeben]

@@TheLoreExplorer Ahh I think I understand now. That’s for explaining.

[@TheLoreExplorer]

When I have an image of the quantum moon. And check the map. The moon moves because I stopped observing that image. When the map closes that picture doesn’t revert that or make the version being observed in the photo certain. Also… in a different spot in an orbit doesn’t mean it’s a different object. Your logic baffles me sometimes bud.

[@alexandergreen5292]

Or just take a picture of woman um like really up close so it doesn't show the parts of the moon itself and go to the tower 100 iq

[@ultrafun2227]

I think she will throw us out using her staff with the words: "Where are you looking, pervert ?!"

[@legend-v4l]

She would still die because the air is different than what she is used to

[@TheLoreExplorer]

Their outfit and masks are spacesuits. Also , we can breathe their air and use it in our oxygen tank. Like in the vessel or interloper. So itd make sense if she could breathe ours anyway

[@juliensanchez2170]

Observing every day

[@sicsempertyrannishonk7197]

I started playing outer wilds for the first time about a month ago. While I did come across solanum's body many times and in many positions, when I actually finished the game (or think I did, I guess) I got a campfire with all the travellers, including Solanum, and we all sung a song together as we collapsed the universe. My interpretation was that we couldn't stop the end; it was inevitable. But that I got the end where we all sung and played together under the quantum moon. Did I miss something, or stumble upon something special? Is Solanum not always at that campfire in the end? That would be sad.

[@BlappetureCO]

All this as well is not going to undo the fact that due to 5/6ths of her being dead, she's no longer a conscious observer. She can't keep the Quantum Moon locked to one position even while alive, as shown by the Quantum Moon continuing to shift positions without issue. Also, the QM vortex always takes us to the TH reflection because it's reflecting what the Eye vortex does; sending us somewhere that resembles Timber Hearth. It's basically foreshadowing. There's definitely some sort of oversight going on there anyway. It's already a bit unclear why our scout initiates an emergency recall back to us when we send it into the vortex. Another oversight made that you can find out about if you try and disable the recall is that the devs never took into consideration that we could duplicate our scout through the ATP and launch it knowing full well we couldn't get it back to us. Because the scout still emergency recalls back to us regardless of the duplicate. It's not an oversight with the QM vortex specifically, any situation that would make the scout recalled still forces our scout to do that while the duplicate in the ATP exists. But I reckon it's one the devs should address, as well as this current one. There's never ever a time where a quantum object that can readily shift positions does so while we have an image of it observed. Even with ones within the Eye itself.

[@therealty3936]

Is this a dlc?

[@tutacat]

Solar-num!

[@bradador1]

Dude i am baked

[@harrisonsim1341]

I've thought of this, I like to imagine a scenario where you bring her onto your ship and she's incredulous as to how it hasn't fallen apart on account of how it's made of a concerning amount of wood and held together with rope and bolts

[@paulspencer5467]

Would it change anything if you grabbed the dead versions of solanum and kind of just, picked them up and threw them off the quantum moon? Then she wouldn't revert to the dead versions of herself if she left the eyes version of the quantum moon.

[@TheLoreExplorer]

I dont think that would do much. There are technically multiple versions of the dead solanum on each moon. Getting rid of one and making it so its unobserved wont help anything.

[@Tommy29004]

​@TheLoreExplorer what if you threw them all off and made it so they were all observed, and the living version of solanum so she wouldn't revert to her dead quantum states?

[@notveryartificial4486]

Actually, even just meeting her on the quantum moon is bigger than anything extra, that we could ever do for her. If we meet her - we have remembered her. If we remember her when we enter the eye - she is the part of our last stay. If she is the part of our last stay - her alive quantum state is a part of the quantum probability that the new universe will collapse into, and her song - the song of nomai - is a part of new universe. Not only she will reappear in the new universe. Her entire kind - will reiterate and live another history in the new reality. She becomes the window for her entire species to appear once again. It's infinitely more significant than a chance to observe ruins of your past for several minutes, before everything comes to an end

[@lightknightgames]

I think the vortex to Timber hearth is the immitation of the eye of the universe creation thing. Less that the quantum moon moves, more that the quantum moon creates itself. So it should be fine

[@JolanXBL]

Maybe the corpse isn't Solanum, or the 'living' one is a 'god'? They seem to control the end trigger

[@TonkarzOfSolSystem]

Is the skeletal version of Solanum present on the Timber Hearth quantum moon while you have a photo of the alive version?

[@Undy1]

Okay I don't think we can actually save Solanum. But first of all let me state that the quantum rules in-game are nothing like quantum mechanics IRL. For starters there's no such thing (as far as we know) as macroscopic quantum behavior - this one is pretty obvious. The less obvious one is the rules regarding what counts as 'observation'. Quantum rules in-game are all about conscious observation, everything else is ignored. IRL observation has nothing to do with conscious observation - it's a really common misconception no doubt brought by the unfortunate name for this process - "observation". But in reality in context of quantum mechanics "observation" means literally "interaction" - and it means any interaction at all and with anything. A single photon hitting an atom - that's observation. A random electron hitting an atom - that's observation. A cosmic ray passing through - that's observation. Two atoms repelling one another - that's observation. All of these things cause the wave-function to collapse and none of them require a conscious observer or any life at all to exist. This would happen in a 100% dead universe as well. So now that we have that out of the way lets talk about Solanum. Solanum died shortly after landing on the South pole of the Quantum Moon and we also find her alive on the South pole at the 6th location. This would suggest that she never made it to the north pole and back, but instead stayed in place. As far as the in-game rules are concerned the observer becomes entangled with the quantum object only when they are in complete darkness - when they can't observe the quantum object anymore but are touching it (which IRL wouldn't make sense cause touching it is also observation but again lets stick to in-game rules). So in complete darkness the observer and the quantum object become entangled and at that point exist in all the possible locations that quantum object can occupy at once. But Solanum wasn't in complete darkness when the ghost matter hit - instead I think what happened is that when the ghost matter hit, she first lost consciousness and in that brief moment before she died she was no longer consciously observing the moon and became entangled with it - and since the moon wasn't consciously observed anymore it returned to it's superposition state - existing in all 6 locations at once along with her. From this point on the things are a little dicey - we know Solanum died at different points in time at different locations of the moon - because we find different versions of her body. So that means she must've been able to still move on each version before the ghost matter hit, but also that means she was able to move on some versions while she was already dead on other versions. So we have two options here: Either she was incredibly unlucky and each time she died she 'woke up' having traveled to the exact next version of the moon thats going to be hit by the ghost matter next - never falling out of order and essentially dying 5 times in succession. Or (and this is more likely) - her dying the first time permanently entangled her with the moon and made her unable to collapse the moon's wave function despite being still conscious - or this would indicate that she's no longer entirely conscious. And it would make sense because otherwise the moon would never leave it's 6th location since she's still alive there. In any case I would think that the reason she thinks she might be dead is because from her perspective she instantly transported from the landing site to the 6th location without making the journey. And also I think she probably tried to use the shrine to travel to another location and nothing happened - it couldn't because she exists in a state of superposition with all her other bodies which are dead and obviously a dead body can't observe itself so it's unable to collapse it's own wave function - that's why she can never be rescued from the 6th location. She can only exist in this superposition state - both dead and alive. I think even if we were able to take here off the moon she would still remain in the superposition state and would collapse to one of those states when observed by us - most of the time to a dead body and sometimes to being alive. And again even if we were to observe her in her living state at all times there's still a strong indication that she's no longer entirely conscious anyway. And as far as the vortex is concerned - I think it's one of those cases where gameplay was much more important than logic and we can't truly trust what happens when we enter it while observing a photo of the 6th location. Finally regarding the ending of the game - it's just as Gabbro said - it might not exactly be him there in the end but it's close enough. So the same is true of Solanum - while she's not exactly there with you it's close enough and the new universe would not change in any significant way if it was the real alive Solanum there. Just having met her is enough to change the ending and bring life to the new universe and that's enough!

[@TheLoreExplorer]

Youre right about a lot in here. Most of it really. Oddly enough though. The common consensus is we also split into 6(to keep it simple) versions of ourselves when we land on the qm and entangle with it. So yes. When solanum dies she entangles with it. But following the rules , the other versions of her matter not. Just as there are multiple dead versions of her on each moon. There are really multiple alive versions as well. And technically ways to teleport home. Itd be possible to save her alive version if we could get her off the qm while still observed. Youre right about observation to a certain extent. Though things like our ship and whatnot do count as observation. But for some reason for it to be certain we need conscious observation. Probably cause humans falsely asserted the same thing early on. Youre also right that ultimately we cant save her. After asking the dev directly I was right. With the picture of her alive(and the 6th location in the background) the vortex would only take us back to the 6th location. It wouldnt let us leave. This should be updated and fixed soon. Finally. Regarding Gabbro. Yes. That isnt technically Gabbro. And that isnt technically Solanum. But you have no real way to assert that IF solanum actually also did make it there. Or made it there in our stead. That things wouldnt be different. Based off our experience the universe 14.3 billion years later changes. If the eye had more experience, or different experience , to draw from. The result may yet be different. If we somehow made a portable warp core or something similar. This could technically happen. But we will simply never know.

[@Undy1]

@@TheLoreExplorer I'm not partial to that 'we split into 6 the moment we land on the Quantum Moon' hypothesis and here's why: There are only two ways superposition in-universe can work: 1. All the 'copies' are completely independent and are able to make their own decisions and move independently. 2. All the 'copies' are really one and the same so everything they do is 'in sync' because they're still a single entity occupying multiple locations. So which one is true? Lets consider the cave shard on Ember Twin - it occupies 4 locations. If we were standing on it in complete darkness and there were 3 other, independent copies of us, then what would stop them from just jumping off the shard while we stayed in place? Would that duplicate us? Or would we cease to exist while 'they' continued? We couldn't 'become' them because they did some action that we didn't which would either require all versions to merge memories or all versions except one to have memories erased. Needless to say this is too problematic to be accurate so it must be that while entangled all the 'copies' are not really copies but just one single entity occupying several locations at once - which is consistent with some of the in-game lore. Now that we established how superposition (i.e. the state we're in when we entangle with a quantum object) works, lets think about if that would work on the Quantum Moon without being in darkness. While it's true that while on the surface we can't communicate with anything outside - can't receive images from little scout but can still recall it. And vice versa - while outside we can't receive images from the little scout that's on the surface of the moon but can still recall it. This means we're isolated from the outside world and technically we could become entangled with the moon had it not been for another property which is unique to the QM - it's surface changes depending on which planet it orbits so we're still observing a particular state and collapsing that possibility while being there. But even if we were to become entangled, sooner or later in one of the locations our 'copy' would encounter an obstacle that's not present in other locations so this would either desynchronise the copies (which we already deemed too problematic) or this would just stop us from proceeding. But that's clearly not what happens to us in-game because we don't experience any 'phantom' objects blocking our way at any point. So I think that's simply not what happens at all - we don't entangle with the moon until we're in complete darkness inside the tower or until we lose consciousness - which doesn't happen to us in the game at any point but I think that's exactly what happened to Solanum. And another thing - we can entangle and 'teleport' with a quantum object while in complete darkness, but our destination also has to be in complete darkness otherwise we'll never appear there. This is very easy to test with the Cave Shard - I mentioned there are 4 locations - well in one of them there are Nomai lights that are on by default, so that location can only be reached by foot - we cannot use the shard to get there. Furthermore if we place our little scout in one of the other caves so it's not dark anymore we also cannot travel to that cave from other caves, essentially limiting our travel options to just teleporting between two caves. Anyway with all that let me reiterate - I think that Solanum became a quantum object herself - when the ghost matter hit she first lost consciousness and entangled with the moon, entering the state of superposition - existing in all the possible states at once - in all the locations at once. Then the ghost matter finished it job in 5 of the location and her possible state at those locations changed from "alive" to "dead" while her state on the 6th location remained "alive". So Solanum exists in a state of superposition - 5 different states dead (different poses), 1 state alive, furthermore in 5 locations her only possible state is dead and in 6th location her only possible state is alive. This is why in 5 locations her dead body is changing - it isn't tied to a single location - it's occupying all the 5 possible locations and being in all possible states (poses) at once until observed and collapsed to one possibility. And while one is observed the others don't exist - there's no copy of the Quantum Moon around 5 remaining locations, including the 6th location. At that time there's no alive version of Solanum at all - she's dead. Only when we actually arrive at the 6th location we can observe her body collapsing into the only state possible there - alive - and at that moment there are no bodies on other moons because there are no other moons. And even if we were to rescue the alive version of her, lets say using a teleporter pad, she would still remain a quantum object - if we were to stop observing her at any moment she would go back to her superposition state and if we looked back to where she was supposed to be she would have only 1/6 chance of actually being there with 5/6 chance that she's back in a state of superposition being all her other possible states - dead on the Quantum Moon. As for my second point - the ship doesn't count as observation, at least not in-game. If you land the ship in the Quantum Grove on Timber Hearth or just outside the Tower of Quantum Knowledge on Brittle Hollow you will very soon find out that the trees and the shards can 'teleport' into your ship and move it - in other words they don't care about the ships existence occupying one of their locations, they will spawn there anyway given the chance, even if it means destroying the obstruction in the process. The quantum objects also don't care about the little scout - they can spawn in the same location which lets you take pictures from the inside of a tree or a shard. I suspect that both of these behaviors are bugs rather than hard rules and the quantum objects at the very least shouldn't be able to clip into objects that are already present - superposition means they occupy every possible state at once, not every state period. And an obstruction should simply make one of the states impossible and prevent it from happening. But in-game the only thing that locks these quantum objects in place is observation by a conscious observer, even if it's just a picture (which btw. doesn't really make much sense, if it was video it would be perfectly fine, but a static image really shouldn't affect these quantum objects) - but I guess this is just another case of gameplay taking precedence over being 100% accurate - little scout taking video instead of static pictures wouldn't work for the gameplay. Side note: an image of an image of a quantum object doesn't work to stop it from entering superposition. In the radio tower there are printed photos that include the Quantum Moon - taking a picture of those prints doesn't prevent it from moving.

[@TheLoreExplorer]

I didn’t say when we landed. It’s only when we use the tower. When we stop observing the moon. But that’s just how it works. We become one with the object and split into 6. This is the only thing that allows us to pop up as one of the other 5 possible outcomes. And we can see for ourselves this is how it works with solanums skeleton.

[@BLVGamingY]

it's an oversight BUT it would be cool and fortunate if it just teleports the eye to timber hearth in order to be close to both of them

[@Seavy_Hibrean_Snow]

Holy crap mr.lore I think that my brain just exploded, it is true you can make anything into lore!

[@meerak915]

I think we can chalk up some of the weird quantum behavior here to the game mechanics itself. We are quite limited in what we can do as a virtue of the game mechanics much more so than the limitations imposed upon us by the narrative. For instance there are 2 easy methods to experimentally test your final question: can we save solanum? First, to simply take solanum with us when we jump through the wormhole or take the shrine to leave -- especially w/ constant observation of their Alive State. Second, by taking a nomai statue with us to Solanum to hook solanum into the loop. The key mystery here is just what kind of information can escape the quantum moon AND retain its "quantum" state. As you demonstrated, snapping a photo of the quantum moon's surface locks (collapses) the moon in place in orbit around that location -- preventing even the quantum shrine from functioning. Yet, in contrast, using the wormhole in the 6th location violates this in two ways: by always landing on timber hearth's quantum moon state, and by preserving photographic information of the 6th location despite observation of the quantum moon's hearthian orbit state. Edit1: Addendum: If we die on the quantum moon, our loop resets -- and our memories of the quantum moon too; same applies to the nova that resets the loop as long as we don't disable the looping. We only end up in solanum's state when we disable the loop AND avoid the supernova by being in the 6th location.

[@coalescedll]

wait if solanum died due to le interloper then why is there no ghost matter on quantum moon?

[@TheLoreExplorer]

Good question. The qm records and projects the planets below through time. Its possible that the projection wouldnt be effected by this ghost matter because its projecting the past. Or its possible it all just dissipated.

[@coalescedll]

@@TheLoreExplorer well i have an idea why we dont see gm on qm. so when i was playing outer wilds i found out that when we change the version of qm our ship doesn`t entangle with the moon it just stays at the place where the first version (the one you landed on) was. so i guess it worked the same way with ghost matter and it just dissipated shortly after.

[@codespark451]

If an observer has been at the 6th location this whole time, then how is the moon still jumping about the solar system? To my understanding, this means one of two things. 1. Solanum's status as an observer was somehow revoked when the Interloper detonated, meaning that she only exists in an alive state when the moon is at its 6th location. 2. Observing the moon from below its cloud layer is somehow different/disassociated enough from observing it from above that the outside resumes its unobserved state while all observers and their photos are on its surface. Meanwhile, all (observed) versions of its surface continue to exist in parallel, with the dead body always at the south pole, while the tower jumps in both latitude and longitude. The real sticking point is that we can't stick a camera inside a quantum particle to see how observing it from the inside would affect it. Not to mention that quantum mechanics has the kind of weirdness about it that could have both possibilities be both true and false simultaneously. I'll guess that it's the first one on the grounds that being 5/6ths dead doesn't introduce any more weirdness.

[@TheLoreExplorer]

Well. We know Solanum is entangled with the qm. And we know entanglement requires non observation. So she basically cant serve as an observer. Its not too clear why imo. But its what we see. Its possible that when she oirginally died she stopped observing the qm. And so she entangled. Which sort of created the 6th versions possibility. But since she is only a possibility she cant observe anything. Its all just sort of a mess of possibilities.

[@codespark451]

@@TheLoreExplorer A mess of possibilities that can somehow react to your arrival and carry a conversation. Assuming that we can get her off of the moon, she might continue to be dead 5/6ths of the time that we look her way, and pairing her up with a statue may be impossible without her "Observer Light". This then raises the question of what she actually is, given that she's aware of what's happening around her without properly observing it. Perhaps she's a quantum zombie? Schrödinger's cat would be one, but only while the box is closed, meaning that pulling Solanum from the Quantum Moon would collapse her state. It's possible that if we want to pull her from the moon alive, we'll have to do it from the 6th location, as she'll collapse into a state appropriate to the location she was pulled from. There are enough unknowns here that almost anything could happen.

[@TheLoreExplorer]

I was saying the mechanics being it is a mess of possibilities. So in essence your last sentence. We just dont know what would happen. I compared her to a quantum ghost a while ago. Personally I dont believe shroedingers cat is relevant at all in this situation. Solanum is never really both alive and dead. Shes always either 5/6th dead. Fully dead. Or fully alive. Anyway. The whole point of the video is, following the rules, with the picture. She will already have collapses to the version we need her to collapse to. And with the picture. She shouldnt be able to collapse to any other version.

[@BlappetureCO]

@@TheLoreExplorer She's never only one state or the other. Any quantum object follows this rule; it can be here *and* there while unobserved, but only here *or* there when observed. So she can indeed exist in both states, just not while observed. It's *exactly* like Schrodinger's cat, where it can also exist in both states of being alive and dead, but once the observation is made, it can only be one or the other. Obviously in our universe, it's extremely unlikely that Schrodinger's cat can still be existing fuzzily in both states unless the whole environment is close to or at absolute zero, to prevent decoherence. Whereas in Outer Wilds, conscious observation is required to collapse a quantum object. It won't do so by itself, so that's where the parallel ends. Plus with the macroscopic forms in the solar system, they can easily go back to existing in a superposition once unobserved again.

[@user-pb4hh1jk3f]

There is one problematic issue with trying to bring Solanum to meet the Prisoner...

[@TheLoreExplorer]

Being?

[@user-pb4hh1jk3f]

@@TheLoreExplorer spoiler for the final puzzle: In order to meet the Prisoner, you must die (or brute force through 32768 codes).

[@TheLoreExplorer]

Or have them from a previous loop