Theme Park - ADG Episode 308

[@vyse19861]

Aside from the escapism aspect (that I absolutely agree with), the main reason - at least in my opinion - why the corporate stuff doesn't work is that it causes the game to throw its own gameplay under the bus. It's like the game is constantly saying: "You know, building a theme park isn't SUPPOSED to be fun, actually it's all about numbers, nobody in the real world cares about the parks they're making or the people in them, making money is all that matters." At some point you have to ask the developers: "If building theme parks isn't supposed to be fun, then why did you think a game about building theme parks would be fun to play?" And at that point, they have two options: Admit that their game design isn't logically coherent, or admit that they intentionally set out to make a game that isn't fun.

[@Pixelmusement]

FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT. :D

[@ImperatorZed]

I really never minded the union negotiations even as a kid

[@hhdhpublic]

By the time I got to play Theme Park RCT was already out and it was obivious even to child me how more userfriendly RCT was, not only due to the lack of corporate, which I think could work if done correctly, but just the user expirience in general. The gameplay was simply far more intuitive and clear, clear enough that even a child who couldnt speak english could pick up and play and enjoy the game. Gotta say though that this video made me wanna look up a theme park guide to find out how it all is supposed to go.

[@Pixelmusement]

The trouble is the corporate stuff HEAVILY clashes with the whole concept of building the amusement parks themselves. If the park building aspects were greatly simplified and lacked any sort of user creativity, then it might work out better, but because the corporate approach is always money-money-money, it sucks the fun out of being creative and now, every time you make a park, it's just going to be routine, doing the exact same things every time because getting to be creative or nurturing is a waste of time. :P

[@GatorRay]

@@Pixelmusement Just like how the "Lewd" pictures (Don't think I can describe them in any other way without my comment getting flagged) in Spy Bros clashes with the cartoony art style.

[@CYON4D]

I played this as a kid with my brother without a manual and without knowing English. I remember having a good time and never thought the game was difficult or frustrating. There were much more difficult games from the DOS era compared to this.

[@SLiPCoR]

Oh boy this was one of my most favorite games way back when. I had NO IDEA that you could turn off the stock function... this would have helped me so much. I had the same issue and always got discouraged to keep playing because people got unhappy because we ran out of food :)

[@DeadendSatellite]

I played this business simulation game and it simulated a business and now I'm mad.

[@sirhcman]

exactly my thoughts! it's pretty sad actually.

[@Pixelmusement]

That's kind of the problem though. If this was JUST business management and didn't have any of the park building aspects then a lot of the heavy-handed corporate stuff in here would make sense and there would be nothing to get attached to. However, MOST people, when they build something, aren't interested in immediately destroying it, yet this game is actively teaching you not to give a damn about the stuff you're building and that its SOLE PURPOSE is to earn you more and more cash and that's where I get angry because that's a horrible lesson to be teaching people. :(

[@epiphonefish]

@@Pixelmusement Would it be fair to say a personal bias weighed heavily on this review? I loved this game as a kid and was quite surprised to hear your take as some of the content that rolls on through the channel is (subjectively) far worse than what's presented here. It's definitely multi-faceted but well constructed for what they were aiming for IMO.

[@Pixelmusement]

It's actually not. I only briefly mentioned the MANY bugs with the game, such as how the mouse controls are unresponsive and frequently click in places you don't mean to, or how the finances are definitely not being calculated properly leading to discrepancies between the reported balance and your actual balance, though one of the worst is definitely how invisible gaps can end up being generated in your paths which cause park visitors to completely lose track of where they're going. My very first run at a park put such a gap right in front of my balloon stand and I spent that entire run wondering why no one was buying any balloons. As I stated in the review, this is not a "bad" game, but you have to play it flawlessly to have any hope of success, which drowns out the potential creative freedom it would otherwise offer. :P

[@epiphonefish]

@@Pixelmusement I see; the PS version was not plagued with any of said issues IIRC and that's was my perspective. Appreciate the informative response!

[@buchstabensalat1238]

Back as a child I loved playing this game (altough only playing in sandbox mode back then) but wasn't getting that far into building the park. A thing that I ran into, was the huge amount of inflation of prices to construct attractions, which couldn't be countered with research on sandbox mode. Also we had to play the game on a old laptop, because the AMD K6-II with 450 MHz in my PC did let run the game way too fast. When I was older, I revisited the game with DOSBox (still having a german budget rerelease CD of the game at home). I managed to build a rather big park on middle simulation setting, but I encountered another issue: At some point the pathfinding of the mechanics and handyman didn't work very well anymore. The mechanics didn't find the attractions anymore and the handyman (which all were assigned to some part of the park) did only walk between two tiles and the rest wasn't cleaned anymore. I can absolutly understand your criticism about Theme Park. The game aged very badly and is nowadays completely overshadowed by RCT 1 + 2, which are still very playable today (especially with OpenRCT2). Here some trivia: I have read about an interview, which Chris Sawyer (creator of Transport Tycoon and RCT 1 +2) did with a german games magazine in 2000, where he did state Theme Park as the game, which dissanpointed him the most.

[@Pixelmusement]

Looks like my funny feeling was spot on! ;)

[@hemangchauhan2864]

I'm glad Bullfrog took lessons from it to make other excellent management games.

[@GatorRay]

Yep. Feels like a night & day difference when compared to Theme Hospital (At least from what I can remember of LGR's review of that game and the ADG episode on it)

[@mystilearmor]

One of my all time favorites! It was groundbreaking for its time. Bullfrog made some incredible games.

[@shadowangel2235]

What was groundbreaking? The horrible AI? The non-existing opponents? The bugs and exploits? The fact that in typical Molyneux fashion the game contained maybe half of what he promissed and that after 2 hours you alreay saw everything? Even going back to 1994 there were better, deeper Tycoon games like Pizza Connection

[@DarkElfDiva]

I figured out pretty quickly that if you bought 50% of your own stocks your rivals couldn't buy you out.

[@WWammyy]

Thanks I'm currently playing Theme park, that tip helps a lot

[@azetutu]

Build a duck hunt and set the value of the win to 1$ and the chance of winning 100%. Set the price of the game to 9999 and you will get almost endless money

[@Mech4]

This game looked very enticing when I would watch the demo, just a series of screenshots I think.It's so bright, colourful and cartoony. I've tried to play it since and, yeah, it's very awkward and the lack of a manual certainly didn't help matters. It would be interesting to see what the best designs and methods would be to maximize park rating and money would be, but as you mentioned, it seems much more of a "struggle against the game to win" style than RCT's "build a theme park where everyone is happy".

[@kt00na]

I think that was the most centrist-ass take on unions I've ever heard.

[@Pixelmusement]

I'm intentionally trying to NOT start a debate in the comments so of course it was going to come across like that. I've already had to remove several comments from people trying to start such a debate. :P

[@nowaymangoshtomuchna]

you don't get bullfrog games... they are deeply cynical games and that is especially in the "theme" series like theme park and theme hospital and so on, the way its designed is basically a parody of disney and other such parks... its literally unfair to compare it to roller coaster tycoon cause both games have different goals... its same as unfair to like compare the original rainbow six to like quake...

[@Pixelmusement]

It's not an unfair comparison. If it was then that would be like saying you can't compare the old brick-style cell phones of the 80s to the smartphones we carry around now. You can; one is objectively better. Sure, the better one couldn't exist without the worse one coming first and setting the stage, which is exactly what's happened here. Theme Park wasn't "bad", but when contrasted to what followed it was rapidly made obsolete. :P

[@laser8550]

@@Pixelmusement RCT existed because of Transport Tycoon not Theme Park RCT focuses on building your own tracks along with the usual theme park stuff, Theme Park is just pre built theme park attractions with a lot less roller coasters

[@nowaymangoshtomuchna]

@@Pixelmusement you are missing my point there, the thing about the "theme" games is that they are cynical sneaky commentary on the corporate world and not really to be taken as full on simulations of owning a park, its the same with theme hospital... its not really about building a hospital and then running it for infinite, its more about reaching goals and objectives wile also be a sneaky commentary about health care...thats why i am saying that its an unfair comparison... also yes... phones back in the 80s and 90s where rapidly different from todays smartphone... architecture and the way they where build and even the way they transmitted signals where a lot different and had different GSM standards... it would be a very unfair comparison for those old phones to compare em to modern day phones

[@Pixelmusement]

The trouble is that Theme Park here doesn't come across as "cynical". If it did then yeah, I wouldn't have been THIS hard on it for its content... but also keep in mind the actual gameplay has issues I didn't go into in great detail, so combine that with the "genuine" feel of this game being a corporate, bank-sponsored shill and it REALLY doesn't feel fun at all when contrasted with similar games which followed which were done right. I didn't miss your point I just don't feel its the right point here. :P

[@nowaymangoshtomuchna]

@@Pixelmusement well i am speaking from my perspective and almost all games from bullfrog have that sneaky cynical theme... thats why i said sneaky... on first glance you not see it but as soon it springs into your face it really does... play some more bullfrog games and you get it... they all have that feel about them from dungeon keeper to theme park to syndicate... they all do it

[@ollllj]

we did not play this, because it was good, because it surely was FAR from being great game design and it had very dull slow pacing. We played this, because it was novel (genre permutation) at the time.

[@Nic0maK]

I was too young when i played it to do it seriously. I always ran out of money. And it was full of bugs ... Beyond that, i liked what it looked like. When RCT arrived, i never looked back. That was a big step up.

[@thegreatcodeholio123]

17:36 I never thought I'd see a game with a research UI that has as much scrolling text as TempleOS :)

[@ServantOfBoron]

Great video, but there is one thing that you didn't make clear and that is: this game is sponsored by UK banking institution. It's a very important detail, you know. :)

[@Pixelmusement]

Yes, you're absolutely right! I'll make sure to say so EIGHT times instead of four next time this comes up in the future! ;D

[@YukaTakeuchiFan]

As a guy who used to greatly enjoy this game as a kid, but have a hard time getting back into it today, looking back, I can see the points here. I think the thing is that Theme Park IS actually a pretty deeply cynical game and it's all about bilking your customers for all they've got so they get in, stay just happy enough to buy the merch throughout the park while not telling the people outside not to bother, and get out so the next group can get in. The thing is, looking at footage of people actually playing the game doesn't make this particularly obvious... but supplemental material such as the manual makes it a heck of a lot clearer, and if you were playing this a lot as a kid, it probably went way over your head nonetheless because "theme park buildin' yey~" and the only part that was obvious was that cranking up the caffiene content in your coffee turned your customers into constantly-sprinting nutbars. There's also my noticing in retrospect that this game is MADE to be cheesed and it wants you to do so as much as possible. During your negotiations (which includes a version where you try to knock down the cost of your goods), it's entirely possible (at least until you've failed twice because the minimum goes way up each time you fail) to pay your employees or suppliers LESS if you're sharp enough and keep your 'hand' constantly moving back and forth on the left side. Run-and-gunning your way to the best rides lets you crank your park value through the roof for the auctions. Buying a lot of stuff early on in each map causes the park value to reach holy-crap-high levels if the inflation rate on a map is so high that it all but negates the slow drop in value that your amenities all have, so your auction sales go sky-high as well. Most customers will buy ANYTHING if they're fresh off the bus, so if you force them to go past the Gift Shop (the highest-price toy shop) and the coffee joint, you can generally get a big head start on sapping everyone's money as soon as they enter. But... everything in the game, including the stuff above, tends to also have little bits and pieces wrong or inconvenient about the individual parts typical of the "nobody has done this before" nature of games that start a genre: you have NO WAY AT ALL of knowing that negotiations are about to start; they just flash up and catch you off guard, giving you just a little bit less of an ALREADY super-tight time limit to get the _action-based_ negotiations running your way (why not have some sort of strategy minigame on a schedule or something?) The whole stock market system is just... VAGUE; you can't really tell if you're doing anything right aside from the very basic buy-low-sell-high basics and what does buying your competitor's stock out actually DO because I can't see an obvious difference? You CAN look up info regarding your park value but it's REALLY vague and you can't do it on a per-amenity basis so you know what to shore up. Similarly, you can't tell how old your rides are and age DOES have an effect on their reliability and value, so how the heck are you supposed to tell when to replace them without MAYBE your advisor giving hints that are difficult to confirm? And perhaps most annoying of all - holy SHIT do you have to have an absolutely absurd amount of money to open up some of the later parks to where even when you're cheesing the game mechanics as much as I was, I never came close to being able to access about a third of the park locations and I'm at a loss regarding how you can speed that process up - this isn't made any easier as you slowly realize you're not getting any real new content past a certain point and you're basically just doing the same song and dance in every park (for all you can say is better about RollerCoaster Tycoon, and you are largely right on in that assessment, they did not improve the whole "differentiate anything IMPORTANT about the park or your objectives" very much until the expansions, but that's its own story...). I remember this game being pretty popular back in the day... but ever notice how you've never seen the final "you've beaten every park" cutscene, if there even is one (Bullfrog games tended to have really horrid endings in that regard), on KZbin? _This is not for nothing._ I think what maybe the game needed to do (aside from having more content and making it more meaningful) was to maybe slide _even harder_ into its cynical side and make it all the more obvious that isn't really meant to be a simple little theme-park building simulator for the young ones and that you are, in fact, the dreaded Higher-Up Executive of your organization. It could allow even you to do even MORE shady crap throughout the game (seriously, the manual blatantly tells you you're rigging the carnival games and cheating your butt off when it comes to that whole Win Rate Adjustment setting). Or maybe they could've done what Theme Hospital would later do and slide into that cynical side, but do it in such an absurd way that it just sort of becomes this weird little black comedy, a concept that Bullfrog tended to be very good at working with. This is just... too outwardly CUTE for that to be clear. And I say all this because I liked this game and wouldn't mind a true follow-up to its side of the business! I just think there could've been more done or done better, and I'm a little disappointed that some of the concepts weren't brought over to other such games. Micromanaging exactly WHAT your shops did and how they might affect your guests, what other tycoon game did that? (Okay, maybe "Let's Build A Zoo" but that's just a little too far in the future here...) Why didn't RollerCoaster Tycoon adopt the carnival games and let you tinker around with the prices, win rates, and razor-edging the difference between "people win so much that the game is unprofitable" and "people don't play because they know they'll lose" while letting YOU determine how big a prize is at stake? The research system that let you decide EXACTLY what your money went toward and in which categories, ALL AT ONCE, was GREAT and should never have been simplified as much as it was in RCT where you can only, at best, vaguely influence the ONE item that's coming up next - which you STILL don't get to directly pick from a category - and how fast you get it - on top of there being so much cool little supplementary stuff that made everything from your rides to your per-bus customer count you could make better. And I still think that being able to influence how much you could pay your staff and suppliers could've been done well if done in a different way with more predictable timing (or do what some games do and let you just directly adjust staff wages whenever and however you want, which even Theme Hospital noticed was probably the best move there, leaving just the supply issues and maybe some other things to the Minigame Gods). Heck, just let you pick and choose EXACTLY which extra systems are in play as you go because I loved the Full Sim aspects (seriously, I liked keeping track of my supplies and trying to anticipate the best times to restock for maximum efficiency, but it's ONLY doable in Full), EXCEPT for the stock market which was so badly done here that it could jump off a roller coaster for all I cared. (mumble) Holy friggin' crap that is a lot of words I wrote... (out loud) Eh, the wonders of about 25 years of hindsight, eh? ,:3

[@Pixelmusement]

You should make a video; you've pretty much got most of your script right here. ;)

[@YukaTakeuchiFan]

@@Pixelmusement Ha, maybe one day! I can get pretty long-winded when it comes to those older games I used to love, or games where I loved the concept but the execution was off (or in this case, a little of both) =3

[@earthsteward70]

I think the reason why the FMVs run at a differing frame rate is because bullfrog were experimenting with their technology, games take a decent amount of time to make and there was no way to tell if their stuff worked until it was burned onto a drive or a CD and then played on their target hardware.

[@GatorRay]

Makes sense to me.

[@Right_Said_Brett]

As a kid, it blew my tiny little mind that one could increase the salt in the fires in order to force customers to purchase more soda!

[@hadeishadeis7462]

Always interesting to run into another game where my experience is the opposite of yours. I found this game for the most part easy to understand without a manual, and very enjoyable to play. One of the first PC games I had and one I highly enjoyed until moving on to Roller Coaster Tycoon. It's an enjoyable game, despite it's creepy intro and that I've always thought the Adviser is probably a sociopath who's suit is made of the skin of the guests. Once you get bored with building regular parks it's a sadist's paradise. There are just so many lovely ways to torture people and make their lives into a living hell. It's ok that roller coasters need to be research. You first want to focus on building a food court maze that takes several months and a small fortune to navigate. But they are little people. Tiny little pixel people on the screen at the mercy of your genius or incompetence (did I take something at face value again that I should have been thinking about till I found the offensive element? Honestly I'm no good at this modern society thing.) Have to admit to never paying to much attention to the financial screens, I mainly just fine tuning rides. And the stock thing. Don't know, just keep it full. I enjoyed the negotiation part at first, once you get the feel for it you can leave them with a 1% raise each time. Though yes with the way the game is set up, in the final years when you're just trying to inflate your share price those negotiations are popping up every few minutes.

[@abadenoughdude300]

"so many way ways to torture people" Maybe that's the intended way of play and not building a park that's actually good and fun lol. With how corporate focused this game is, it wouldn't really surprise me.

[@fastbreak333]

I also tried to play with this without a manual and I echo Kris’s statement: have a manual handy, it is really hard to figure stuff out at first.

[@maddisonstoff2929]

I think it was actually meant to be satire? Same as theme hospital. The corperate speak and the way it makes you sell your park is imo part of that. It's meant to feel like you're just blowing in, running a scam, then blowing out again. Like how it encourages you to oversugar your drinks so that you can oversalt the chips and make people go between the two etc

[@Pixelmusement]

There were a number of sentiments about this and if it's true then it's the most buried attempt at satire possible... SO buried that they got a freaking BANK to sponsor the thing. :P

[@maddisonstoff2929]

@@Pixelmusement Or alternatively, it's just another layer to the satire. Like the scooter ad that DEVO did. :P kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGfPhKmdqMmpr6s

[@maddisonstoff2929]

I'm also curious if it was sponsored by the bank everywhere or just in the UK? Cos I played it as a kid in Australia and either it left no impression on me or it wasn't sold like that. My guess is that they liked it because of the stock market simulation. Which would just mean easy money for Bullfrog and wouldn't say a lot about if it was *also* satire at all....

[@Pixelmusement]

@@maddisonstoff2929 From what I understand, the sponsorship stuff is only present in the DOS version. I've only ever played the GOG release so I have no idea if it was excised from releases in other parts of the world at the time or not.

[@maddisonstoff2929]

@@Pixelmusement interesting yeah! The version I played was dos too.

[@JomasterTheSecond]

This is a true Molyneux moment right here.

[@ThommyofThenn]

"Play perfectly or lose" sums up so many games from the 90s. I can't believe people had the audacity to ask for 20-40$ (in 90s money no less) for games like this. But to be fair, i guess the technology to give games that open ended feeling was much harder to implement then

[@HalfBlindGamer]

I loved this game! Mainly played the PS1 port, not sure how much of difference that made. Remember things could get quite unfair and hard to keep track of everything and stay in the good numbers, but could get quite far despite all that.

[@GoodPunk]

Also funny that you dislike the corporate side of the game so much when this is seen by many as one of the big selling points of the game. It has been praised a lot for its social commentary explicitly. 😁

[@Pixelmusement]

If that was the point then it seems the game was intentionally made to make people like myself angry, in which case, mission accomplished! :B

[@Davtwan]

Sounds like it was at the cost of intuitiveness though. At least they had a better handle of that balance between commentary and gameplay in their later titles.

[@Pixelmusement]

@@Davtwan For sure. Pretty much every Bullfrog title you can tell where the humour is and what's being poked fun at, but this game here, if it IS supposed to be satire it is buried very well by that corporate sponsorship. :P

[@ThommyofThenn]

Plus, the yuppie culture of the late 80s was still around a little bit. But by 1994, the "grunge" backlash made the whole coke, fancy suits and unethical business thing fairly uncool. As such, i think this is supposed to be satire.

[@StanislaoMoulinsky79]

No mention of "making french fries super cheap but super salty + making beverages super expensive"? :P

[@rebeccaschade3987]

You could build roller coasters in Theme Park?! I played it quite a bit back in the day, but I never, ever saw the ability to build roller coasters, and that always felt like a HUGE let down in a game about building a theme park. I guess I just never had much success in my games.

[@Pixelmusement]

There's a full interface for it and everything... Yeah... :/

[@laser8550]

This was the first theme game that led to Theme Hospital. Some of the things from this game were refined for TH I live in a country without many worker unions and simply regarded the negotiations as "I want a pay raise" event, typical of such games (Pizza Tycoon, Theme Hospital all have this as individual employee happiness) and real life. You shouldn't mind such aspects too much Also Chris Sawyer did Transport Tycoon which he used some of the revenue to travel and he got interested in roller coasters. RCT has a lot more in common with Transport Tycoon than Theme Park

[@kshadehyaena]

Yeah, the union bit really baffled me, difference between North America and Western Europe, I guess. Bullfrog is from the UK, after all. The presence of an union isn't sinister or damning in any way.

[@Pixelmusement]

I had to delete a few comments already from people trying to start an insincere debate about unions so that kinda goes to show that it can be a highly sensitive topic, thus why it bothers me that a game about building an amusement park has such a mechanic. If this were STRICTLY a business sim, without the creative aspects, and handled this mechanic with proper attention to detail, then it wouldn't be quite so jarring or upsetting of an addition.

[@laser8550]

Anything can be a highly sensitive topic While there is no need to go in depth about them here, it is over emphasized in this review Peace out

[@DontStopCornPop]

"The park has to close, your life's work collapses around you, and there's only one honorable way out. It's a long way down."

[@Pixelmusement]

Not even the MANUAL is spared the corporate nonsense. :P

[@DontStopCornPop]

@Pixelmusement I should have specified this quote was from the manual, but yes, I can see the creators were pretty cynical and incorporated that into the game and manuals. As a kid Bullfrog completely dominated my gaming experience. My brother and I spent hours playing Bullfrog games like Theme Park, Syndicate, Magic Carpet and Hi-Octane. I remember really loving Theme Park as a kid, but I don't remember the more aggravating aspects of the game, like not being able to build while paused or the repeated sound effects. Great video as always!

[@ExperimentalExperiments]

Used to ask my cousin if I can play the "vomiting game" as a kid on his 386. Good times, good game.

[@Zeithri]

Played this on SNes as a kid. The ending was terrifying and made me annoyed since all I wanted to do was to build a fun park. But I enjoyed the game, it was good. Then RCT came out, and it was sooo much better in every way.

[@PlayStationPaul]

Ironically, the Midland Bank brand was bought up and phased out.

[@FuzzballRenakitty]

Only played the PS1 version- same with World- used to love the 3D mode of that!

[@crabman3144]

Are theme park employees even allowed to unionize in the UK, where Bullfrog was based?

[@bluekewne]

Oh hey! I had this on the Playstation - almost turned me away from management sim games altogether though, thought it was super boring - if it wasn't for RollerCoaster Tycoon to save the day...

[@Banzeken]

“This episode of ADG is definitely NOT sponsored by a UK baking institution…” I sure hope it isn’t given the general lack of bread and pastries on this channel.

[@Pixelmusement]

...did I seriously make that typo? XD

[@Cyberbrickmaster1986]

I played the DS remake a couple of times, and even with the guide character, I was eventually starting to struggle with maintaining the park. I bought the GOG version thinking it was a good game, unaware how brutal it truly was compared to the Rollercoaster Tycoon games that came later. I just assumed I would like it more than the remake, because people said the remake sucked. But in reality, this game does not hold up at all compared to the theme park management games that came after it. I would even play Legoland and Theme Park World/Sim Coaster over this any day.

[@YukaTakeuchiFan]

The DS port has a few issues that aren't present in other versions, but I think the reason people say it "sucks" is a combination of that and the fact that the base game itself hasn't aged very well. A few additional bugs on top of that, and hoo boy, here's to hoping you were a big fan years prior...

[@Cyberbrickmaster1986]

@@YukaTakeuchiFan Is there something I should be concerned about if I wasn't a huge fan, or even played the original back in the day?

[@YukaTakeuchiFan]

@@Cyberbrickmaster1986 It's basically a combination of a fairly major issue with the visitor AI that isn't present in any other port (they tend to randomly wander off and get stuck in one corner of the map even if you have no paths leading anywhere near that area), and a strange quirk where either the "people currently in park" cap is lower than it used to be or the visitors stay far longer than they used to, because if you notice that your buses suddenly aren't bringing in ANY more people regardless of park quality, it means you've hit the cap... and can no longer get front gate money from new people until the old ones leave. If there was such a low cap in any other port, I never hit it and it seems like someone else would've complained about it. And in either case, closing your park and re-opening it seems to be the only sure way to fix this (it both un-sticks the broken AI and forcibly empties out your park for new people). It's the kind of stuff where you can tough it out and enjoy yourself a bit if you were a fan of the original game and realize exactly what's going on and how to fix it, but coupled with how the base game hadn't aged very well even back then and they did NOTHING to improve it (it might as well be a straight port aside from a few minor aesthetic changes that don't really matter, and lowering the initial opening costs of the parks to levels that actually allow you to beat the game in any sort of reasonable time frame)... I'm not too surprised that a lot of people were VERY displeased with the DS port.

[@egomaster76]

So, CyClones in episodes 309 then?

[@WWammyy]

My wife doesn't like me playing video games so I tell her I'm playing a business simulator 😂 Set the ram to 8mb in the dosbox config @ game breaking bug. Also changing the CPU cycles to 6000 in the dosbox config. Works well for VGA mode. You will need higher CPU cycles for SVGA mode R key

[@EdmondDantes224]

Ah, so next week's game is CyClones. I found a copy at a flea market several yonks ago... I should probably give it a spin but I recall it being one of those oddballs that only works on actual intel processors because it uses some subroutine they have (I may be getting it confused with Wrath of Earth though).

[@HeiseSays]

Can you hire strike breakers?

[@Pixelmusement]

Nope. I imagine a mechanic like that might've been pushing things a little TOO hard. :P

[@MrGeekGamer]

I muddled my way through this as a ten year old.

[@quenaros]

If done right you could negotiate with the unions to a lower salary. Once you figured that out it is easy.

[@steveweidig5373]

The negotiations are more like a minigame, if you're REALLY good at them you can actually negotiate a salary reduction. As for the game speed, better reduce the cycles to about half, otherwise the clock runs way too fast as you remarked

[@Lawnie10]

I always assumed that you were in your late 30s or early 40s. To find out that you were actually 127 is shocking, as you don't sound it! You should contact Guiness World Records.

[@Pixelmusement]

And to think... next year I'll be -128, then -127 following, and eventually I'll be right back around to 0! :D

[@j.a.8224]

@@Pixelmusement Wait wait... I didn't register that part when you said it. It's a *signed* 8-bit int? ...why is AGE a SIGNED int? I doubt it has any point, but that implies you can put in a negative age telling the game "oh I won't be born for another 10 years" (which can be true, if you go from when the game came out versus your age) and the game will go "Yep! That sounds about right!" Still, I'm with the comments that it's all satire on corporate culture, because a lot of Bullfrog games have that sort of thing... but this one's just played more straight. Likely so the UK BANK THAT SPONSORED THE GAME DID WE MENTION THAT wouldn't notice and get offended.

[@Pixelmusement]

@@j.a.8224 That said, if you put in a value of 0 it will raise it to 1 and you can't input a negative value because only numbers are allowed to be input. :P

[@XanthinZarda]

And don't forget! Roller Coaster Tycoon 1&2 can be neatly bundled into OpenRC2 as one shebang. It even does nice things like raising the roof on the maximum number of possible guests, rides, and there's even multiplayer! 🔌 But yeah, Theme Park and derivatives (of which there are a startling amount) come across as cold and unfriendly. I feel Parkitect wasn't inspired by a lack of a 2D Roller Coaster Tycoon, but this game; as it has similar hangups and insipid systems such as inventory management.

[@PapiNewGunie]

My guess for the next game will be Command and Conquer: Renegade.

[@Ribulose15diphosphat]

Or Sim-Copter. If yes, it would be interesting, to figure out what Sim-Copter has to do with Descent, because the Source code of Descent contains texture-mapping code from Sim-Copter.

[@SEGAClownboss]

I could share this frustration. The corporatism and the cold pursuit of profit doubling down on your favourite locales for entertainment and leisure with zero concern for the visitor is always off-putting to me. There's a great movie called "Ace in the Hole" which deliberately chases for that repugnancy and wants to inspire it in the viewer. But anyway, I think if I ever decided to play this, it would have to be with cheat codes.

[@thomascouch4864]

Got to be Command and Conquer: Renegade next. Hell it confused me when I learned of its existence.

[@laser8550]

Franchises have done different genres sometimes from the same developers (Might and Magic) Westwood didn't only do strategy games, they had sole RPGs as well

[@thomascouch4864]

@@laser8550 I am aware. I was away from PC games for awhile when I learned of it years ago. It merely surprised me as the genre they would take the series.

[@Carstein666]

Nah, the show is called Ancient DOS Games. And Renegade is a Windows game.

[@joe--cool]

@@laser8550 And pretty great point-and-click adventure games and a scifi MMO. Too bad EA happened to them.

[@lupinzar]

I both love and hate Bullfrog. They had some really interesting ideas but the games often felt like someone else could do a better job with them.

[@panutalus]

If Bullfrogs are disappointing, you should try Populous 3: The beginning. Really funny realtime strategy with simple mechanics. It's been my favourite ever since I was a kid, even though to this day I'm not a fan of strategy games.

[@Pixelmusement]

I've played Populous 3 before and... I didn't like it. It strayed too far from the mechanics of the original. I didn't think it was a bad game just... not... Populous. :P

[@panutalus]

@@Pixelmusement I know it was basically a different new game from the serie which is the reason why I loved it while I actually never warmed up for the previous ones

[@XanthinZarda]

@@Pixelmusement I like Pop3D, but calling it Populus is...yeah, a strange take. But with how quickly all technical aspects were advancing, felt like a hands tied situation.

[@TheOneRobUK]

I had and still have the Megadrive version which was mostly the same except the coasters looked horrid with the peeps rising balls(?) and because of sprite limits you had to keep buildings spaced or you got a fire hazard warning got the PC version a few years later. Definitely my entry to sim and building games after seen a short preview of ITVs Bad Influence TV show.

[@YukaTakeuchiFan]

I suspect, years after the fact, that the "fire hazard" was code for "please stop putting so much stuff this close together because you're making the Genesis processors cry". I had fun with that error, too.

[@IJsf]

Interesting to see your take on this game. I usually agree with most of your stuff. With this game though as well as GTA I've noticed a bit of vitriol due to the game seemingly being unlogical and difficult, whereas I think some of it here may be due to cultural differences and context and missing a deeper point. I have a mostly opposite experience myself. As a result, the commentary about creative/narrative decisions (somehow) tend to take a bit of an overhand in this review, and I think that takes away some enjoyment for you but also viewers. It takes away from the valid gameplay quirks you bring up too. As others have pointed out, Bullfrog being Bullfrog, this game is cynical and absurd which is typical of British humour, but which can be hard to grasp and is usually not downright revealed to the audience. This game is absurd, and one should be able to -eventually- tell by the cutscenes, absurd union hand negotiation, the wording ("little people"), odd behaviour of the guests and staff and such. It is much less serious than you are taking it. Then, the way to play this game is from a perspective where you're sheepherding your guests: get them fed, "happy" while extracting as much money from them as possible and underpaying your staff. Its obvious you're playing from a different angle as you're using a grid layout. Instead, you could have one big conveyor belt where people are first buying merch, then fed, then get into a ride, then eat, then go to the toilet, to ultimately end up outside again. I think the cynism there is obvious :) The game even lets you place one-direction walkways, to that end. It therefore doesn't really reflect a good way to play through a connotated game like this. I believe, had you started with this view, your experience would've been different, and perhaps you would've been able to enjoy it a bit better. I think that ship has sailed now though, hehe :x

[@Pixelmusement]

I was frustrated with the game's many gameplay issues BEFORE I started noticing the overtones. I mean, let's be real here: If the game is telling me I have over $50,000 in spending cash on one screen and am $6,000 in the red on another screen, preventing me from spending any cash, then something has clearly gone wrong, plus I didn't show any footage from my first playthrough (since I wasn't recording it) where not a single visitor was buying any balloons whatsoever as I had no idea there was a path-eating bug and that it had happened RIGHT IN FRONT of the stall for them, because visually, it was all connected just fine. Regardless of the context of the game and the intentions of the developer, this game is functionally broken and buggy and was testing my patience the entire time I was playing it. :/

[@solsticeprojekt1937]

I don't understand the comment about the manual. I did well without. It took a while, but hey ... learning can be part of the game. ... though, to be fair, i might have played in SandBox only. :D ... ooohhh staff negotiations!!! GRRR LOL

[@GatorRay]

This game suffers from something another KZbinr I follow dubbed first game syndrome. Also think this is a guide game (A game that can't be enjoyed without some sort of guide) And on a final note can't believe modern Atari would eventually tell EA "Hold my beer" with Rollercoaster Tycoon World (For those who don't know how bad that is. LGR did a review of it when it released)

[@BBHood217]

So that's why I hardly got anywhere with this game. I think the only way I got to build a roller coaster was by using cheats.

[@Right_Said_Brett]

"I hate this game" :O Heresy!

[@simonashtear2739]

A first-person shooter, from a company mostly known for strategy games? The only thing I know like that is Command & Conquer: Renegade, but that's not exactly DOS.

[@lilwyvern4]

Got some vitriol in the comment section today, eh? I'm a little surprised you didn't mention the game's infamous game over screen with the player character jumping out a high rise window.

[@Pixelmusement]

...I actually completely missed that because I ended my runs myself when I realized I was screwed in each, never letting the natural game over process set in... W T actual F??? o_o;

[@indigotyrian]

@@Pixelmusement it's a bit of british dark humor/absurdism. The dad character from the intro cutscene jumps out of his office window, like he's plummeting to his death, but at the end you see his head pops up from underneath, implying that he jumped from a ground story window. You can see the cutscene here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZ7GZn6Ibcl4gKc this cutscene no-shit scared the bejeezus out of me when I was a kid and I refused to touch Theme Park again for *months* afterward

[@Pixelmusement]

...I continue to stand by my W T actual F... :|

[@bluekewne]

As a kid I didn't quite get the joke and legit just thought a guy was hopping out a ground floor window.

[@WayOutGaming]

I definitely agree that this game is a bit too heavy handed on the business side. RCT, and the eventual sequel Sim Theme Park, do a much better Job of being fun games with a business side than a business game with fun window dressing. I've always seen this game as a business game first, and a theme park game second. That said, I think a lot of the more heavy handed stuff like the jerk advisor is Bullfrog's attempt to parody and make fun of corporations, sorta how Theme Hospital pokes fun at the medical profession, but I also agree it's not particularly fun or well handled here.

[@jlcdavenport6268]

This review is just an embarrassing showcase of missing the entire point. Especially when the game is presenting the corporate stuff in the most cynical, black comedy way possible. It encourages you to put extra salt in the fries to make people buy more drinks, it encourages you to put toilets in inconvenient locations, it encourages you to mess with the market and then sell off your park and move on and do more- taking those things at face value and then acting like it's got an agenda is just... Did you watch Blackadder and think it was promoting heroism in WW1, because they all charged the Germans and died at the end? The comparison to RCT makes it even worse, because RCT and it's followups throws out all the actual interesting parts of the simulation, all the parts the Bullfrog actually put time and money into researching, and just makes it a toy. It's a fun toy, but it doesn't have the depth or the heart of Theme Park.

[@Pixelmusement]

Regardless of anything, games still have to be fun, and this one's so broken that all three of my runs through it died due to game-breaking bugs, so if this IS supposed to be satire it's buried super-deep under a user-hostile experience... and I don't think it's a stretch to say that Bullfrog didn't realize this too, as their satiric comparisons to reality in their later games are done MUCH better. :B

[@jlcdavenport6268]

@@Pixelmusement The game is fun, when it's taken on it's merits as a proper, business directed SIM, rather than comparing it to a toybox game and complaining it doesn't do the same. And, honestly, I don't see how the cynicism can be missed- you reference it constantly but then take it entirely at face value. The game over screen is literally a cynical jab at the businessman jumping out his window joke. Everything about the business management is presented as a black comedy, exactly the same as how Theme Hospital does it.

[@fkirfirt9606]

I'm happy to find out that this game is unfair and unbalanced and it's not that I'm just an idiot.

[@B1G_Dave]

Bullfrog were known for this type of satire. It's supposed to make you feel like a sadist, while at the same time making you question corporate and bureaucratic nonsense. All I can say is DON'T come to the UK, you won't like the humour here.

[@AmyraCarter]

Kinda reminds me of Sim Town. Looks a lot like an Apple ][ game.

[@ITGuyinaction]

👍 👍 👍 🍀 I remember this game! It was amazing!

[@Alianger]

lmao I didn't mind the salary negotiations mini-game being a thing, but the execution is pretty lacking here.

[@7thDementia]

This makes it 0 out of 3 for me. Maybe I *should* gift you the Capstone FPSes… nah, I’m not that cruel. I’ll stick with games I like and think you might like. Besides that, yeah, Theme Park is best played as a dickish overlord, not a whimsical park owner a la RCT. Not surprised you didn’t show the game over screen, it’s kinda darkly humorous. I actually do feel your views on the game are valid, but I do enjoy it, warts and all. …Theme Hospital’s better though. XD

[@Pixelmusement]

Actually, until someone else pointed it out in the comments, I didn't even KNOW that game over screen was in there... o_o;

[@Keele1986]

I always used the name HORZA in this game. :D You can guess why. :)

[@Ribulose15diphosphat]

Here you are playing a big corporation, in Dungeon Keeper you are playing Satan. There seems to be a pattern.

[@Pixelmusement]

In Populous you are playing God. In Syndicate you're mind-controlling everyone you come across. In Magic Carpet you have the ability to cast Global Death. There's DEFINITELY a pattern. :P

[@solsticeprojekt1937]

Theme Park! I knew it! \o/

[@beedwisegamgee]

I can understand your negative thoughts on the Union Negotiations (wanting less of a downer aspect in this ~jovial, tongue-in-cheek bullfrog game) but at the same time i kinda like it. playing it on the other hand, i'm sure i'd do horrible with it and get annoyed LOL. I'm really shocked that this episode is bringing out all the crankies in the comments. this is a goofy little game-- even if you consider the overall business management genre as well as this company doing a lot of ironic, sharp 'commentary'-- and the stock market/stocks/unions doesn't fit whatsoever, especially if you can turn off some of those hyper-realist options otherwise. i don't blame you for wanting the game to be less about... whatever all that downer corporate nonsense is. and i laughed when you brought up the bank multiple times kjsdfsdjkf, perfect. XD

[@SteveMacSticky]

Hahaha 😁 it seems like this game really peed you off

[@lostxj]

I don't get what this episode has to do with bread and pastries.

[@Pixelmusement]

Neither do I so I fixed the typo. :P

[@Tgc_Dave]

I was terrible at this game as a kid. Like, TERRIBLE. And I agree, Rollercoaster Tycoon is the more enjoyable "game" whereas this is probably the better SIM

[@Pixelmusement]

This game can't keep its finances straight so I'm not sure it's better "sim" either. :P

[@Heike--]

This is a business management simulation. Not sure why you got so upset by the union aspect. It's a simulation. You want a game, play Warcraft.

[@sirhcman]

Some people just aren't cut out for business I guess. If you don't enjoy business you aren't going to like this game.

[@Pixelmusement]

Because it's too real of a topic and needs to be handled very carefully... This game does not handle it carefully. :P

[@Spacemutiny]

Agreed this seems like a strange thing to get mad at a game about. Most titles like this are meant to be parodies of business, so referring to your customers as little people is supposed to make you twirl your mustache not get the SJW hairs standing up. It’s a game.

[@Pixelmusement]

That's part of the problem though is that if this game IS supposed to be a parody it is hiding that fact EXCEPTIONALLY well, to the point where a freaking BANK sponsored it! Not to mention, if that's the case, having people like me get mad at it may've been intentional and as such, you can't really hold that against me! ;D

[@Imgema]

What exactly is so wrong with the words "little people" that makes you go as far as punch a hole through your screen? It's a bit silly at best, why such strong emotions?

[@waspor8208]

Because the whole game is framed from the perspective of a corporate big wig, who all see the not-rich people as lesser, or even subhuman. So "little people" is a cute way of calling customers inferior.

[@Heike--]

@@waspor8208 I see someone is unfamiliar with the People of Walmart. They're deplorable.

[@Imgema]

@@waspor8208 Ok. In this game you are the rich theme park owner so you are taking that role. It's for fun, not meant to be taken seriously. I mean, in their next games like Dungeon Keeper you are the evil ruler who sends his demons to kill heroes and pillage the land. I imagine Chris must be furious with that game.

[@nunosilva6574]

@@Imgema One is rather close to our reality, the other is not.

[@sirhcman]

Sadly humor is lost on so many these days

[@NaoPb]

Having not played this game, I wondered why you would hate on it. But after seeing your video, I dislike this game very much. And I agree with you about Chris Sawyer. His games do seem like some sort of response to how bad this game was. I wonder if the union negotiations are secretly a stab at Bullfrog's negotiations with the sponsoring company to keep as much of the corporate stuff out of it. As to keep it a fun and playable game instead of the nightmare it became. At least it wouldn't surprise me if the developers at Bullfrog weren't at some point frustrated about these things as well. It also seems to me the game might have been rushed out of the door, without enough playtesting to find those bugs and attempt to make a play mode that doesn't include all the fun killers. Oh and I would recommend a magnifying glass if you do play on 640x480 resolution. That font is terrible!

[@Pixelmusement]

I'm 99% certain this game WAS rushed out the door, as when I was reading up on its history there was apparently a plan for multiplayer which fell through. Combine that with the bugs related to finances and path finding and mouse controls and yeah, it seems pretty likely this game wasn't quite finished by the time EA wanted it on shelves. :P

[@jamesmcdermott9327]

Man, the sequel to this, Theme Park World/SimTheme Park, is SO MUCH better to play than this. It basically apes RCT's design philosophy - and it greatly benefits from it. None of the arbitrary 'realism' in it.

[@zorkboy]

"Booo ... boooooooooo"

[@Pixelmusement]

Actually, they're saying "Ewwwwwww!" over the barf patches. If you turn the music off you literally spend 99% of this game listening to barfing, ewwws, and cash register sounds. :P

[@endymallorn]

I never liked RCT, and instead preferred Transport Tycoon and Theme Park. The corporate simulation is fun to play for me, in part because I dislike amusement parks of all kinds, and really loathe roller coasters. So yes, add extra salt to the fries, jack the drink prices up, charge for toilet use. In RCT, there was never a game I played where the umbrellas were less than $20. The reason why the hunger thought in TP overrides everything else is because that’s where your park makes the real money - the food court. The rides are an afterthought, basically a joke. They’re for the poor mugs who don’t just want to eat, pay, and depart. Buy the cheapest stocks you can and buy a lot of them, scaling with your average weekly business. Upsell them at the highest price the market can bear. Union negotiations were interesting to me but lacked any real strategy, because my problem is that I wanted the opportunity to hold my line at the table, and when the ex-workers tried to picket and protest, hire a bunch of scabs to cross the line, and if the old ones stay out there too long, call the cops. I also liked the stock market elements. So really, I think the problem is that TP and RCT are going for opposite audiences. If you really love roller coasters, and theme parks, and crowded places, enjoy RCT. Build that gigacoaster. Put down that perfect track, and enjoy. If you think it’s a mug’s game and enjoy messing with the sort of people who’ll go to an amusement park to see just how far they’re willing to be taken for that ride, play TP.

[@GoodPunk]

Git Good! 😄

[@CvijaFaQ]

woop woop you're still making episodes!

[@fernandopenalva2680]

Bananoid???