Themes in Lord of the Rings (Part I)

This is a graduate level lecture on the literary and Catholic themes Tolkien uses in his Lord of the Rings books. We are not seeking to make them allegorical, but rather explore these themes in general, to see what Tolkien wanted to echo in his story of Middle Earth.
For the best books on Tolkien and his background check these out:
Tom Shippey's biography: amzn.to/2dChoJu
Classic biography: amzn.to/2dCh5hY
The Road to Middle Earth: amzn.to/2dCikOb
Ryan M. Reeves (PhD Cambridge) is Associate Professor of Historical Theology at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. Twitter: / ryanmreeves Instagram: / ryreeves4
Blog: blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/...
This is Lecture 14 in the course 'Lewis and Tolkienl'. All material is copyrighted.
For the entire course, see the playlist: • Lewis and Tolkien

[@noooddle]

I never thought I would binge watch theology lectures, but I am. Thank you.

[@Mikeanddrea]

I love what you said here, "Evil, I would say for Tolkien as well, is extraordinarily narcissistic in the sense that it always feeds on what I think of myself, usually when I think of myself too highly. All the elements of, “I’m important enough to be able to do this and get away with it.” Or “I’m important enough that I can do this and I’m not as weak as those people who would fall prey to corruption.” Some people don’t like this about Gandalf; when Gandalf is offered the ring he says, “Don’t tempt me. I would be corrupted.” There have been people who have been tempted to say, “well that’s not power. I thought he would be strong enough to withstand it.” Well, in Tolkien’s sense, being strong enough is knowing where you stand in the order of creation and knowing that you are corruptible. It’s humility. The narcissism that evil and sin brings is the belief that I can do this and get away with it. I can do this and it won’t actually fully corrupt me. This is obviously a plague in ministry. I can bend the rules and break the rules and sneak by things. Weather it’s moral issues or work ethic (or whatever it might be), “I’m better than all these other people, therefore I don’t have to live by the standard rules of accountability.” And then unaccountable power always ends up corrupting; either in the worst cases we’ve seen or the benign cases, but it still corrupts. It always feeds on narcissism."

[@OneWorldHistory]

As an atheist, who has loved Tolkien's subtle writings for many many decades. I am enjoying these lectures with both goofy nerdy humor... and respect. We come from different sides of the coin, Professor Reeves, But applause from the back of the room.

[@RyanReevesM]

OneWorldHistory // Thanks, man. It was always my goal to make both nerds and philosophical folks happy. The nerds are the hardest to please, but I did my best! :)

[@bradbilbo6696]

I get the same feeling about the Borimir story that a I get about Hector in the Ilyad. Same sadness that he fell subject to external forces past what he could let himself allow. Borimir felt in a large way that it was his duty to try to control the ring and save the day. Hector fell to the same sort of external pressure of glory in battle to save Troy and his honor. Both of them felt compelled by duty but both were really being narcissistic thinking they could control the outcome. It also seems Faramir was like Paris. Both eventually won the day but never succumbed to the greed for power or glory to do it. I just think there's an interesting parallel between the stories and wonder if Tolkien could have also been using that tale from the heroic ages.

[@concars1234]

I sort of like how Fellowship takes such a slow pace in the beginningg. Really helped me immerse, makes me think about the pace of life in his universe, and the gargantuan scale of the series.

[@N30NGoblin]

I have been doing heavy research for my novel. Looking into themes in Tolkien's work such as how to build an extensive lore and how to play off of themes. This has to be the most interesting i have come across yet!

[@RyanReevesM]

Lets Talk Games // Dude, that's awesome! Helping in the creation of a novel makes me happy I posted the lectures and let the Tolkien nerds have at me. :) Hope the writing and research goes well for you.

[@JimCullen]

Regarding the long time they took to leave the Shire, I think it's important to remember what the state of Middle Earth was at this time. Gandalf and the White Council have _no_ idea at this point that Sauron has truly returned to power in Mordor. There are some signs that evil is on the rise, but there have not been any signs of the Nazgûl in Middle Earth since the Witch King was forced out of Angmar. Certainly, there had been no significant signs of evil west of the Misty Mountains in centuries. Gandalf had no reason to think that Frodo would be in any danger. Additionally, when he _did_ end up leaving, Gandalf wanted Frodo to be able to do it _secretly_. To prevent any evil that _did_ track him down to the Shire from being able to track him down and find where he had gone. This is the reason Frodo left Bag End for Buckland, and took up the name Underhill. It wasn't until he later _did_ find out the Nazgûl were seeking the Shire that Gandalf realised how much danger Frodo was in, and tried to leave him a message that he needs to leave soon. If only Butterbur hadn't forgotten to deliver that message.

[@mogolosh]

You said it was odd that Bilbo would use the term "they" when he himself is a hobbit. Got to thinking about that, when he returns he has changed from what the rest of his community still are. While they remain basically a carefree and somewhat simple he has seen the darkness and horrors that are possible in the outside world. This weariness and experience seperates him from the other hobbits. Judging by the story of his birthday he feels more at home with the elves. After all the profound changes I don't think he considers himself to be very hobbit like at all. Thus he uses the term "they" instead of we.

[@josepadolfmartiibouis7133]

+mogolosh Never thought about it that way. Thanks for the insight.

[@elliemerp479]

I've seen this whole playlist. It's honestly phenomenal. Bravo.

[@m.douglas5406]

As a Christian, reading The Picture of Dorian Gray, by Oscar Wilde through the lens of addiction proves to be incredible for insight into the addictive experience.

[@allthepeas]

This whole series of lectures is excellent.

[@ChipKempston]

I'm one of those people he mentions who read the books almost every year.

[@djuptsjomaour]

To Ryan Reeves : I know i write about details that may not matter directly in a theological sens but Denethor was slowly madened and "corrupted"/crazed mostly by the use of the palantiri

[@BabineauxPL]

your work is amazing! I love to watch and hear everything what you say! Respect and greetings from fan of Tolkien from Poland!

[@themonkeykingkaiser]

Just finished parts 1 and 2 of your Silmarillion videos. They're great so far! I love your videos. Thanks for uploading!

[@montage2726]

In an interview Tolkien stated that he disliked allegory and would rather categorize his work as ‘applicable’ or ‘applicability’. Also, he stated that the Silmarillion and the LOTR were originally a project motivated by the creation of language.

[@RyanReevesM]

Mon Tage // Hey, Mon. In letters and elsewhere Tolkien does talk about an appropriate 'allegorical' reading (not full Allegory) of his works and encourages it. We talk about this in other lectures, so this one does seem to drop in with allegorical talk, but it's faithful to Tolkien's intentions. As he says in a later preface to LOTR, he dislikes pure Allegory because it binds the reader to interpret it one way, but he wrote his fiction so readers can read it a number of different directions. This lecture is just one direction; by no means the only one! :) We talk about Tolkien and the languages, too, elsewhere, though not as extensively.

[@Dumbo8234]

+Mon Tage I would say allegory is a like-for-like replacement like saying sauron is hitler or the ring is the atom bomb. Looking at themes, ideologies and concepts such as the nature of evil or the fall of man can be done without diminishing Tolkien's motivations or literary intentions.

[@michaelenglish839]

+Ryan Reeves Also, in much of his expressed disdain for full allegory, he refers to those who would say that LOTR was based on or heavily used elements of the real world war of his time. You are absolutely right on his views of applicability, and it is evidenced in his own love for and use of literature.

[@KTChamberlain]

Well there were four movies that Sean Bean's character didn't die on film: National Treasure, Troy, Percy Jackson: The Lightning Thief, and Jupiter Ascending.

[@RyanReevesM]

***** // Maybe he'll die in a sequel or something. :)

[@KTChamberlain]

Ryan Reeves the irony is that National Treasure and Percy Jackson do have sequels but Sean Bean's character wasn't in either of them, and Troy, based on The Iliad, also has a sequel The Odyssey, but since he played Odysseus, well you get the picture, and I doubt Jupiter Ascending will get a sequel. lol

[@moviemaniac1838]

+KTChamberlain Don't forget Silent Hill. He was ironically the only one who got out of that movie completely intact.

[@martinclements7666]

i first came aware of sean beans work in sharpe where he is the hero in many season's,perhaps this does not count in the myth of bean's death cult because it was a T.V series lol.

[@philwang7405]

KTChamberlain also the movie Ronin, in which he survived as well,

[@diamondmonkey70]

THE RING OF GYGES - (mentioned in the 3 Books of Occult Philosophy by Agrippa) It is a mythical magical artifact mentioned by the philosopher Plato in Book 2 of his Republic. It granted its owner the power to become invisible at will.

[@kentruitt9997]

Wonderful lectures! As an evangelical and a Tolkien nerd this and the Simerillion (sp?) lectures blessed me beyond measure. Especially your insight into Tolkien's view or thought of "sub-creators" and the insights into art and music and those who are called to those vocations (to create). I will go back and watch these many times for encouragement and insight into my faith. Thank you professor for posting these! Blessings to you.

[@celestebivin1659]

Professor Reeves, I just stumbled on to these lectures and I really have enjoyed them so far. Tolkien is my favorite writer, it took me getting to about 19 though before I gave him another shot, cause I was terrified as a child once Gollum entered into the story. But you said that you had yet to run into someone as dedicated to The Chronicles of Narnia on a yearly basis as people are to The Lord of the Rings. I wouldn't say I make a point of reading them, but ever since I was a child I have loved Those books and I would hazard to say I have read the Chronicles of Narnia over 75 times since I first learned to read. Being a late comer to Tolkien, I have read The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion only a few times over. Thanks for the insights into the books and I look forward to hearing the rest of the lectures.

[@ricardopagan6653]

already seened it a 3rd time. amazing lectures. thanks for posting the entirety.

[@RyanReevesM]

Thanks, Ricardo! Though I would've bored myself with 3 times through! :)

[@JoesOnlineAlterEgo]

The reason why the one ring is not as potent in 'the Hobbit' is because it is tied to Saurons power who is still regathering strength at that point. The closer the ring comes to Sauron, the more powerful they both become.

[@anthonyrago554]

on addiction to sin, we see powerful discussion in the Sayings of the Desert Fathers.

[@patrickkrebs]

I really enjoyed these lectures. Thank you!

[@ciaran_mcghee_music]

I love the Denethor/Theoden analysis. In terms of this lecture (I'm not a expert on Christian beliefs ((bear with me)) and the subject of sin. the theme that I notice binds these two characters is despair (a deadly sin?) I found it really interesting that you touched on the treatment of kin and narcissism because these two characters are prime examples of both. as you said Denethor despairing over the loss Of Boromir and his mistreatment of Farimir gives In to despair and effectively commits suicide. this is the opposite to Theoden, who likewise looses his son and heir but In turn, for the better gain of the world, uses his influence to March on Mordor and effectively his doom. this also ties in with your treatment of Kin point, with Theoden adoption Eomer and Eowin and lamenting that he could do more for them as a father figure. The interesting thing of both of these men being "lesser" than the King's of numenor plays into these characters and sin as well. Denethor in his narcissism would reject Aragorn as the returning king. Denethor believing the stewards of numenorian descent being able to rule effectively. Where as Theoden being decended from "ordinary north men" acknowledges Aragorn as a great (Greater) leader of men showing humility. Great lecture and good food for thought. all the best

[@sauron7049]

Excellent series of lectures,and a comprehensive understanding of the nothingness of evil.Compelling and instructive,a rarity for most discussions of Tolkiens works.

[@RobertHickok]

Nothing corrupting Denethor but the palantyr. You can't dismiss the external influence. While not the corruption of Wormtongue, the Palantyr is very similar.

[@martinclements7666]

came across your site from my love tolkein,great talks and idea's very interesting.

[@berserkasaurusrex4233]

The Ring in the Hobbit becoming the One-Ring in the LOTR is much akin to Captain Jack's compass in the first Pirates of the Caribbean film being retconned in the sequels into a far more important magical item that largely drives the plot of the last two films of the trilogy.

[@probro9898]

11:09 - I think this is a reference to Hugo Dyson. What he actually said was "Oh f**k, not another elf!"

[@teton99]

I've listened to both talks and they were very good. But I am wonder why Ryan Reeves never mentions the fact that J.R.R. Tolkien was a deep and devout Catholic and it's not just biblical influences in his work, but also Catholicism. The Eucharist “Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament. . . . There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death. J.R.R. Tolkien Can be found in The Philosophy of Tolkien: The Worldview Behind The Lord of the Rings, p. 219. The Pope and the One True Church "I myself am convinced by the Petrine claims, nor looking around the world does there seem much doubt which (if Christianity is true) is the True Church, the temple of the Spirit dying but living, corrupt but holy, self-reforming and re-arising. "But for me that Church of which the Pope is the acknowledged head on earth has as chief claim that it is the one that has (and still does) ever defended the Blessed Sacrament, and given it most honour, and put (as Christ plainly intended) in the prime place. “'Feed my sheep' was His last charge to St. Peter; and since His words are always first to be understood literally, I suppose them to refer primarily to the Bread of Life. It was against this that the W. European revolt (or Reformation) was really launched-'the blasphemous fable of the Mass'-and faith/works a mere red herring.” Can be found in Tolkien: Man and Myth, p. 193. Show less REPLY

[@RyanReevesM]

I do throughout the course (it's a long course) and especially at the beginning. By this point, the class is in the later 1/3 of the lectures so repeating this at each step of the lecture would have been unnecessary. You're the first to complain that I don't see Tolkien as Catholic! Most blame me for 'reading theology into' Tolkien. :)

[@teton99]

Sounds good thanks. :)

[@Acek-ok9dp]

Is it just coincidence? When you pointed out the threefold character of sin (self, devil and world), it immediately reminded me of John Frame‘s Triperspectivilism (normative, existential and situational perspectives).

[@tonyrussell8797]

i always thought that the hobbits were the thought that god can turn the actions of the devil and sin to his purpose as such the hobbits are Eru Ilúvatar correcting the dissonance cuased by mellkor in the song and it also would make sense that the hobbit would be lighter becuase tolkin origanly wrote it for his kids

[@JimCullen]

Even though Tolkien himself was quite firmly against readings of The Lord of the Rings that imagined it as an allegory for World War 2, it's not hard to see why some people came to that idea. With the 30 year gap between A Long Expected Party and Shadows of the Past, and then even after Gandalf returns and reveals that Bilbo's ring is The One Ring it takes many months before they finally head out on their journey, it's not hard to see why some people might have connected that as an allegory for the appeasement which was the Allied policy prior to the War. It's not a view I myself agree with, but it is interesting.

[@skmarrama]

You mention about an earlier edition of the Hobbit.. because I scratch my head. I remember different things in the first version of the Hobbit too. I remember everyone wishing Bilbo a happy birthday after he arrives at Laketown during one of the feasts... but it's not in the edition that I have in print or the one on my Kindle, which is suppose to be an 'unabridged' version.

[@stanlindert6332]

Don't let it unravel,don't pull at that thread.. I'm going to keep that. Thanks Ryan.

[@scicofilms8037]

Hi Mr. Reeves...I felt you may be interested in a book I am writing which is coming out in a month or two which decrypts the Paul Revere 'One if by Land, Two if by Night,' poem. That leads to the Bible (Chronicles 2 29) and the very direct correlation with LOTR. The story of Adam and Eve, Enki and the Annunaki, Gilgamesh even Jesus Christ is directly symbolized by Tolkien in my opinion knowingly. The large foot of the Hobbit signifies the relationship with the Bigfoot and the dimension of the Hobbit is the same of the little people of Lemuria (and it appears some of the Americas who lived *in mounds*, just like the hills Hobbits live in!). "Booneh" is the ilsand the code leads to in Persia. "Booneh" decodes to 'One-Hob" and 'One" is another word for 'it' hence 'Hobbit" island! There's a dragon involved, too. It's the story of a real war. The book will be out soon under "Sir Tokis". Shukeswar.com has the first novel under the name. Thank you for your fine video!

[@WildernessIronworks]

Here is a person that re-reads Lewis twice a year

[@bama1usaf]

Ryan Reeves are from Jacksonville Fla?

[@guilo44]

Do you think that Denethor also acts as an embodiment of nihilism that can overcome the wiser (or more educated) of people? He sees the invading armies (corruption,sin) and simply decrees that Gondor has fallen (at least in the movies.)

[@Weaseldog2001]

Denethor spent a lot of time looking into the seeing stone. From the Silmarillion we learn that Sauron's power is in possession, and mind control. In his tower when he was a servant of Melkior, he would kidnap men and elves, and posses them with spirits creating, werewolves and other abominations. So when Denethor used the stone, Sauron used this opportunity to ensnare his mind through it, and twist it to despair.

[@wizardsuth]

Both Denethor and Saruman were exceptionally strong-willed, so Sauron was not able to simply take over their minds through the Palantir (as he could have done with Pippin). Instead, he chose to enhance their own greatest character flaws, namely fear and ambition, and use those to corrupt them. His use of the Seven Rings against the dwarves was similar due to their resistance; he controlled the Nine completely. Aragorn's strength of will and his right to use the stone prevented Sauron from daunting him, and allowed him to wrest the stone from Sauron's control and look elsewhere. He still found the encounter very draining.

[@anthonyrago554]

Tolkien knew Catholic teaching (which incorporates all that is human in the classical world) especially well. I refer to him constantly in catechesis.

[@xxshevilxx]

Wouldn't Biblo think it was necessary to define Hobbits since so many people outside of the Shire had never heard of Hobbits? Even Treebeard had never heard of Hobbits.

[@jgw5491]

I don't think the problem was that Bilbo had explained hobbits, but rather that they were spoken of as "they", other beings, rather than from Bilbo's POV as "we", us hobbits.

[@marioriospinot]

Nice.

[@soulveiw]

So how did the ring get in the river for Smegel to find?

[@anudeepmangu4982]

A little late, but Isildur gets ambushed by orcs, dies, and the ring is thrown off his body into the river

[@portlandjosh]

Anudeep Mangu The ring betrayed its new master, Isildur, by treacherously slipping off his finger while he was in the river, leading to his being shot full of arrows by orcs, since he was now visible.

[@soulveiw]

Rings....... You can't trust them

[@piggy201]

I really like these lectures, only I wouldn't call the Silmarils "the old rings", they were stones. I know you purposely didn't get into the story of it in the Silmarillion portion, I just think this could be confusing people to mistake the Silmarils for the actuall rings. I don't know if you misspoke or you meant they are "the old rings" metaphorically.

[@str.77]

+piggy201 I agree. There's one more difference: the Rings were evil (except the three of the Elves, but even they were bound up in the system of rings controlled by the evil master ring) but the Silmarils were not but rather the embodiment of beauty.

[@thomasalvarez6456]

+piggy201 yes they are different as the rings are made with the power and understanding of the Elves and Sauron. Where as the similrias are made with the power of the two great trees ( which are more powerful and beautiful).

[@s.a.b7617]

John Tolkien= greatest Roman Catholic ever! Do you agree?

[@AJZulu]

Even in a TV Series....he dies. That Mr Bean

[@kennethslayor8177]

Hmmm. I ascetic solitary as a response to being naturally introverted and finding large groups of people wearisome as they taxing the introvert into depression. I test somewhere in the middle between introvert and extrovert. I rejuvenate through interacting with small groups of others, but find being always alone or being in massive groups draining. I would never be caught living or dead at a NY Times Square celebration of New Years. I think these temperaments have more to do with answering the question to monastic or not to monastic.

[@jeanatwood1421]

I can understand the picture of addiction in Gollum, but I must say, Tolkein and Lewis were both smokers. I'm a smoker who doesn't want to smoke. I'm also a Christian. And yet, I still do it. There is a difference between the picture of Gollum and a Christian who is addicted. Christians are saved.

[@PanupatChong]

Had Tolkien ever revealed the origin of Hobbits?

[@kennethmalone4689]

In letter 131 of the Letters of Tolkien it is stated: In the middle of this Age [the Third Age] the Hobbits appear. Their origin is unknown (even to themselves)† for they escaped the notice of the great, or the civilised people with records, and kept none themselves, save vague oral traditions, until they had migrated from the borders of Mirkwood, fleeing from the Shadow, and wandered westward, coming into contact with the last remnants of the Kingdom of Arnor. † The Hobbits are, of course, really meant to be a branch of the specifically human race (not elves or dwarves) . . .

[@rgaleny]

BOROMIR VS FAEROMIR. DANDALF VS SARUMAN, FRODO VS GOLLUM, ARAGORN VS DEITHOR. ARE CONTRASTS IN TEMPTATION.

[@mumbojumbalayajumbo990]

While Christian themes can be "found" in Tolkien's works, themes from other religions can be "found" easily enough as well. The Valar are more easily likened to the Greek god's. Albeit, Eru is the theistic God in Tolkien's world, he is not a personal god. I tend to think that the themes found in Tolkien's world stem from the themes found in the other mythologies which Tolkien was highly familiar with. Like a great guitarist whose playing, when analyzed, is found to be influenced by other great guitarists.

[@georgehovsepyan6094]

Ummm... I think I accidentaly flaged this playlist.. I'm terribly sorry..

[@xardasnecromancer7337]

I can't watch this anymore! The left cross is about 10 cm too near to the projector board. It's not simmetrical to the one on the right. Once you notice, it's like torture to watch till the end.

[@jgw5491]

I mostly listened to it while playing free cell so I avoided that ill effect. :-)

[@MCPrimetime]

it is just the camera angle.

[@reksub10]

Just say "catholic" themes ....take the hate.

[@wizardsuth]

I find it funny when he lectures the class on the nature of evil and being wary of the devil, as though Satan were any more real than Melkor. It makes me wonder whether he thinks Narnia is real because Aslan is a Christ analogue.

[@jgw5491]

Many Christians see Satan as a real being rather than as a literary personification of evil. Theologically the Bible and its contents have a very different weight to believers than a contemporary novel. Obviously your mileage may vary.

[@marysylvie2012]

I watched the film. It took a few hours of my life. At first, I liked seeing the film. In retrospect, I regret having watched that film. I am glad I have not read the book and will never ever read it. I do not like this kind of allegories.