THEMOVE: 2023 Tour de France Stage 17

Lance, JB, and George break down Felix Gall’s fantastic performance to win the Queen Stage of the 2023 Tour de France with an incredibly fast climb of the brutal Col de la Loze and daredevil descent into Courchevel on stage 17, before discussing Jonas Vingegaard cracking Tadej Pogačar, who lost over five minutes to Vingegaard after bonking early on the climb, to extend his overall lead to 7’35 and all-but ending the fight for the overall win.
The crew also discuss how Pogačar’s second-straight Tour defeat, and third-straight Tour where he has lost time to Vingegaard in the third week of the race, highlight how his UAE team has sorely missed their former director Allan Peiper, and if there is anyone left who can challenge Jasper Philipsen on the remaining sprint stages.
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[@todd.goslin6190]

Do you think that after winning the Tour two straight years, Jonas might start next year's race as the favorite this time?

[@Usersixeightfourninefive]

Possibly, but that's pure speculation 😆 I mean this victory of +9:00, which is entirely possible means it was extremely close and anyone can win it😂 Ok but seriously the only way that won't happen is if Pogacar is on some extremely good form in a few days and takes the stage win by +5:00 over Vingegaard and brings it back to a relatively close race.... But this seems unlikely

[@mongol62]

Nah.

[@stineagerbk9234]

Challenge: Impossible :p Clearly it was a fluke. Again. Repeatedly.

[@D0nKeY]

like this year?

[@runnerwatcher]

Pogi needs to focus only in the Tour, not doing things like Tour de Flanders

[@timmclaughlin7855]

Any chance you guys have considered that maybe the difference is Jonas, not Allen Piper?

[@riquelmeone]

Fully agree. Jonas is the one that will go down in Tour de France history. Tadej will go down in cycling history.

[@Butterratbee]

@@riquelmeoneexcept Tour de France history is cycling history

[@ninapjust7165]

another thing that has changed the last two years for Tadej is Jonas. That Jonas performance is never a victory but on the back of Tadej "underperforming" Jonas explained to day, that all their effort and fast riding they have been heavily criticised for was to make the race as hard as possible, because they believed Jonas recovers better than Tadej, and something like to days stage could potentially happen. In the spring block Jonas is criticised for being under par, and not preforming. When his main incentive is to peak in July. Tadej is considered the best bike rider in the world because he also wins the classic, now Tadej is criticised for going after the classics. Later this year Jonas is going to be critiqued for having to few race days like last year, or not going to the worlds in Glasgow. Maybe someday he'll start a race as a real favourite. That doping talk wasnt handled that elegant. For the ITT yesterday was crazy, but we also all se how agressive he was on every single centimetre of the course. He had done every single turn a million times to find the right line and correct speed. Ironically enough for your sponsor Jonas even refuses ketones...

[@madsbaag8250]

My guess is that had Pogi lead the tour by now they wouldnt even have mentioned doping in their conversation. Not a word about Jonas performance today, only a word about doping when talking about his performance. No one of them is questioning Pogis spring victories and doping. Two superhumans were only one of them "might" be doped. doesnt make sense.

[@l.s.7053]

Exactly.

[@mammasut8280]

''That Jonas performance is never a victory but on the back of Tadej "underperforming" ,, that is such an arrogant and ignorant statement. Anyone who has seen this years tour and especially the TT yesterday cant possibly be this smuck and petty. It's really sad you pogi stans can't even fathom that Jonas had yellow jersie and Tadej did not at any point. So It's a bit like reality is contradicting you arrogant approach to said reality. But I guess you stans and ignorants expect the yellow jersie to go out and attack second place..... and not the other way around.

[@shadowsun33]

@@madsbaag8250 Are you aware that there's a huge difference between Tadej and Jonas in the fact that Jonas is very fresh to cycling? He was not long ago packing fish. Tadej had been racing since he was a little tiny kid and very soon started overlapping teens in his age group at local crits to the point that they had him race in upper age group? Do you know these facts? I mean, you people are dumb and ignorant as a rock. Roglic, fresh to cycling turns into a champion, Jonas fresh to cycling turns into a super champion and they both have something in common - Jumbo Visma. Outside Tour (if not right before the Tour) Jonas is an average rider who gets beat on his terrain by riders that are not even climbers. Let that sink in if there's any depth to your brain. Jumbo being a former dirty Rabobank that continues to be dirty and play dirty. Why do you think Wout can't win anything? Jumbo broke him in the Netflix documentary, so they can use him as super domestique. They are dirty and they psychologically destroyed his own will, so they force their own onto him. He's a born winner, a dominator not a freaking domestique. It's not because he can't physically win anymore, but his morale is broken. That's what they do. Primoz finally broke the contract with them say our Slovenian news - good for him. They destroyed Primoz. They forced him to race w/ broken bones, unhealed bones to the point that he had to go look for a 2nd opinion and the independent doctor told him his body is severely damaged and should not be racing. He was ready to sue them and he still may. They will eventually get exposed.

[@chriswilliams1501]

Yes, indeed, there's always reasons, but sometimes the reason is you just got beat by a better athlete.!

[@alexmurdock897]

Although I'm sure Alan Piper is a great director, Pogacar can simply not hang with Jonas on these long steep climbs. Even in 2021 on Ventoux he dropped him, which was a sign of things to come. Tadej will have to change something big about his training and / or calendar if he wants to win the tour again. Or a different parcours.

[@gld5492]

Tadey had stomach problems and you can see that with the black phisio tapes on his belly. Also to answer Lance to what changed for Tadey after his tour wins, not only Allen Piper but also Vinegaard himself wasn't present yet.

[@agffans5725]

Vingegaard said around a week ago to the Danish media, that this stage and perhaps also to a lesser extend stage 16 would be decisive of who was going to win the tour. It would seem that he was right. According to a Danish TV expert/former tour rider who was out there himself to get a "feel" of stage 16. he got passed several times by Jonas, who was out there doing the most difficult parts more than once, to be even more prepared. Pogacar on the other hand spend most of that day resting, and he has done no other time-trials this year, to prepare for this, unlike Jonas. Jonas has simply been more focused, better prepared and taking advantage of his lower weight and having refined his technique, leaving Pog's brute force behind.

[@Mike-zx1kx]

Just if any do not know. Jonas AND Pogi were tested 4 times in the last 48 hours before today´s stage 17. That were a response to people talking about doping involved. Jonas today welcomed both the tests and the questions when asked after stage 17. He said it were understandable that these questions came when looking at the history of the sport. Having said that, Jonas and Jumbo simply had the best preparation, strategy and execution! Only outside forces can prevent they ride into Paris in yellow in my opinion. HUGE wins 2 day in a row! SO impressive!

[@danbanham728]

Not sure that means anything, Lance was tested thousands of times and only once tested positive which the saddle sore cream story was created and we know Lance was on the juice as was pretty much everyone else. Whether the riders are doping or not is irrelavent in my opinion, this year I think Jonas had his prep bang on so he came into top form for the TDF. Pog was winning everything all year and is probably paying the price for getting his strategy wrong. If Pog has a different strategy next year I'm sure he can win the tour again.

[@CarstinTwitch]

6 Plus in Jonas's defense. He has been thoroughly tested Psychally and geneticly since he was 15 or so-. And he just has some encredible genetics for oxygen intake. This is not new info

[@rymerws1]

Cool story. How are you going to test for something if the test doesn't exist yet?

[@nunorb83]

I'm sorry but these kind of performance is too good to be true.

[@trebleseamen]

As per @rymerws1 comment you can see nothing will ever be enough for some people. People will discredit or hate on anything they may not understand or something that does not fit their preffered narrative. Those people cannot be reasoned with, as they dont actually want to be convinced, as it will shatter their preffered narrative.

[@heddeaudio1689]

As a type 1 diabetic for over 30 years I know how it can be when glucose storage is completely empty. You just can not get the level up quick enough to head and muscles which makes this happen. Tadej looked low from early on.

[@HouseMD519]

Pogacar is the best rider in the world, but I think you’re almost disrespectful towards Jonas. In the way you describe it it sounds as if Pog could just win the Tour if he had his old coach/DS back - and no talking about the fact that Jonas for the second year in a row showed that he is just simply a better grand tour rider than Pog. He recovers better and performs better on TT’s and the hardest mountain stages. Give him some credit.

[@angushulme7074]

very well said. I think everybody is drinking the pogacar cool aid. my take is however well pogacar prepares... JV will usually beat him in the grand tours. JV dropping him in the high mountains has happened too often and this is the second year he was superior in ITT.

[@jbhager8662]

no disrespect to Jonas. Amazing.

[@TheChiefEng]

Pogacar seems to have a cold sore at the edge of his mouth which could indicate that his immune system is way down. He may suffer from some sort of infection which is really sad if that is true. It can hardly be surprising that the preparation of Pogacar for this years TdF has not been optimal considering his wrist injury. However, if his immune system is down right now, there is little chance that he can come back in this TdF. Indeed, if Pogacar's immune system is compromised, it could force him to retire from the race if it cannot be kept in check sufficiently for him to complete the TdF.

[@mikeoc217]

Gotta give it to Jonas the guys a Phenom. His sustained powerful endurance is amazing. I'm guessing Tadej didn't get any sleep after yesterday's shocker. It reminds me of Lances days when ya see guys right there the first 2/3rds of the tour only to get pummeled on a brutal climb. Oh well that's what makes it so good. I'm still bumming over Cav I know he woulda broke the cannibals record.....🚴👍🏻

[@valk5045]

Oké, Lance spends half the episode pushing merchandise, including gambling and then tells us that tomorrow he'll be watching more golf than cycling. Good for him. I think I'll be watching cycling tomorrow, the move, not so much.

[@RAAZR-]

I mean we're listening to a guy who fooled us all once already. Will never give him a dime out of my own pocket, but free cycling content I'll take despite it giving him a miniscule of ad revenue

[@raulgarijocabanillas7836]

The JB2 show is much better. Don't waste time here

[@joeblack7469]

I don’t know why that upsets you? You didn’t buy anything from his ads because he was watching the tour did you??

[@valk5045]

@@joeblack7469 haha, it doesn't upset me. I am just not interested in watching anymore.

[@uberkloden]

Im sorry you guys hate lance

[@Fettigator]

Just an Absolutely Epic & Brutal stage 🔥... Congrats to Jonas V ... Now let's get Sepp Kuss back into the Top 5-6

[@gerthenriksen8818]

Yes, get Kuss.back in 6th or 5th, He deserves it big time, Let him get into a breakaway, Jumbo, please. Now is the time, Maybe Saturday, he could try to win the stage,.

[@Fettigator]

@@gerthenriksen8818 100% He has been an epic work horse ... though, i feel Jumbo would favor WVA for a stage win over Kuss

[@charlesshannon4229]

😅😢😢ppp😢j

[@gerthenriksen8818]

@@Fettigator Too bad if that is the case, I think. WVA has won so much.

[@l.s.7053]

What a shame you can’t give credit where credit is due. Jonas is riding smart and doesn’t play around. Wonder when Pogi came out of nowhere a few years ago and became Numero 1… was it all… Ahh, wait, doling must be the reason…. Now, that there’s someone even better, who takes it more seriously and plans everything and every move, it’s all… well, let’s talk doling. How pathetic. Give proper dues to a fantastic strategist and rider!

[@oleandersen5634]

Right on, and I do believe most of us real fans know how to appreciate this outstanding performance. There will always be haters and they will always hate, no matter what. Not worth it to spend energy on them.

[@milk345]

What's the difference? it's jonas

[@johnnoteast7857]

Obviously

[@robertnunes4213]

All respect, Pogacar is an awesome rider, but you are not giving credit to Jonas. It is obvious he is on another level, especially in high sustained efforts, such as the TT and long, high altitude climbs

[@nelly-gu2qq]

​@@paddymurphy-oconnor8255 his only trains for the tour.

[@rachelvasquez7826]

So happy for Vingegaard and also a little sad that his accomplishments are so quickly called into question.

[@birdofprey108]

They should be. It just isn't natural.

[@Tyson19882]

Up to you if you believe he’s clean, many don’t. I don’t

[@shadowsun33]

Because they are just what they are called. It was obvious last year and it is even more bold this year. Jumbo is dirty top to bottom. Primoz finally had enough and broke the contract. I called it. Now I call that Wout is next. He's sick of them. They robbed him of his victories this Tour by breaking his will down to make him into a super domestique and prior to it totally destroyed his reputation in their Netflix documentary. Jumbo is the mob and they will be exposed.

[@unclespliff_productions]

@@Tyson19882 none of them are and never were and never will be...people need to accept the truth for what it is

[@emwa3600]

Two Slovenians being champs with open borders to Russian doping isn't worth some head-bobs?

[@RomanHouse]

Its cycling - a lot of baggage, so asking questions is always reasonable, but Jonas initial performances were more or less on par with last year and his performances earlier this year. They were already peak w/kg. The rider whom suddenly, after Marie Blanque, found a level he had not consistenly shown before was Pogacar! After getting dropped.. found his best legs ever. Does insane mountain sprints: No questions. Then Jonas pushes himself a bit further..goes even deeper, and thats: Doping doping doping. He was tested 4 times in the last 48 hrs. Thats a lot of wasted science then.. On top, Felix Gall, a relative newcomer, did the Loze very fast also today. If JV is doping amongst the GC favorites, then suddenly Felix Gall is also suspicious with an apparently excellent doping program.. sigh... And anybody being surprised WvA could be beaten: Gimme a break. WvA is a beast, but this has not been his best Tour, and the course didnt fit him - it was basically either descending or climbing, both areas that JV excels at, plus you have to be blind to not see that JV's TT was peak professional showdown commitment to do battle against the most difficult foe that exists in cycling, Pogi. Hope everything will stand the test of time, but for now: Bravo and thanks for incredible performances!

[@oleandersen5634]

Very well said. You are right on with your comments. But sadly there will always be haters, no matter what.

[@rulifaller8474]

I feel this podcast and many many other commentators are just very disrespectful to Jonas and Jumbo. The premise you have is that basically Pogacar cannot loose any race on merit. If he looses the first reaction is that something must have happened to Pogacar. Does the thought never cross your minds that maybe Pogacar can actually be second best at something? That Vingegard and Jumbo are just better at the thing called Tour de France? That he actually cannot drop the best version of MVDP on the Poggio? I agree Pog is the best overall rider in the world, but he is human. So it is possible that he is the best at some things and that one person on this planet is better at other things? Jumbo had the attrition strategy down to a tee, just like last year. Even their own team is clearly sufferig from the attrition, just less than Pogacar. Wout was completely spent today, he did not save himself for tomorrow, 😮Kuss could not really help Jonas and lost three places. even Vingegard did not look very sprightly, and from the bottom of the last climb to the finish he only gained like 35 seconds on Felix Gall. The difference is not Peioer, it is Jonas Vingegard. Pogacar is still way ahead of everyone else, just as much as he was in 20 and 21. But in 2020 he was underestimated by Jumbo Visma and they did not make the race hard enough, just controlled it for both Roglic and Pogacar.In 2021 his main rival in Roglic crashed and the opposition was not great, and even then Vingegard was better in the second part of the Tour. BTW Cavendish also had to abandon after a crash, just like Jacobsen. Jumbo is not the richest team, UAE have more money but they spend it on having a lot of good riders., Jumbo spend it on improving their whole operation,

[@angushulme7074]

well said. for me JV is the generational talent not Pojacar.

[@donadams5094]

This was like seeing Mike Tyson on the mat. Not that Jonas or anyone else here is Buster Douglas, but seeing a seemingly invincible champion get KO’d is shocking. “I’m gone. I’m dead” was painful to hear, even to this TJV fan.

[@HoustonNiner1]

Sad

[@lycheeznuts]

It was glorious. Payback for 2020

[@HoustonNiner1]

Exactly my sentiment. Still would love to see stage 20 win

[@Usersixeightfourninefive]

@@HoustonNiner1 it'd be sad if he was 36 and on his way out hoping to retire with a 3rd victory.... The only thing sad about this is he won't be able to win the white jersey 5 times cuz he just wasn't elite early enough

[@ovathere93]

I had that same feeling.

[@belbrighton6479]

Brilliant episode. Loved hearing about the need for a great manager. And your bit about the team trial, it was awesome to watch.

[@mrichards55]

Jonas has produced a greater Danish fairy tale than Hans Christian Andersen.

[@thermitebanana]

One of the reasons Lance won a bunch of times is that he/Johan planned to win. He didn't try to win any of the less important races on the calendar, the team didn't faff about with sprinters, and they drilled the TTT like no other team. It became pretty clear yesterday that Jonas had planned to win but Pogacar not having a single bike that was fit for purpose for the Time Trial showed that he wasn't properly prepared. Pogacar needs a better managed team

[@Smokey66s]

AND Dr Michele Ferrari💉

[@Anacronian]

I think Vingegaard lives rent-free in Pogi's head.

[@ckb9634]

How can you guys ask the question about whats the difference the last two years? The answer is quite simple: Jonas Vingegaard is just stronger, faster and smarter. That was the case in 2022, thats the case in 2023 and it will be the case next year..

[@markc7902]

And Jonas Vingegaard was stronger in 2021 ,that people forget is he was only help to Primoz that year and therefore was behind Pogacar when he became captajn because Primoz crashed.

[@markrushton1516]

Let's not forget Simon Yates in 2018 where the Giro just collapsed for him. It happens.

[@Slow.Smooth]

That was worse than today has Pog still stays in 2nd place and wasn’t the leader actively losing time like Yates. That was an insane Giro. He won 3 stages too

[@michaellarsen6844]

I think Pogi needs to change his physique a bit. Drop the classics and work hard in the off season and spring to lose a little more weight. He has too many kilos to carry through a 3-week stage race when he has to fight against Jonas in the grand tour form he has built up to this year. This change may well cause Pogi to lose a little bit of his explosiveness, but that must be the price to pay to be at Jonas' level in Week 3. I think that Pogi weighs 6-8 kg more than Jonas....and it eats too much at Pogi in the 3rd week. Someone will say, well he could against Jonas in 2021, but you have to remember that there are light years between the Jonas we have seen in 2023 and then the Jonas who broke through in the Tour de France in 2021. Cheers Michael from Denmark

[@donadams5094]

@@paddymurphy-oconnor8255 well for one thing he raced the whole race as leader. In 2021, Roglic was TJV’s leader, and when he went down TJV did not put riders around Jonas in purpose. They wanted to keep the pressure off him, and by the time he was in position Tadej was multiple minutes ahead and TJV had lost literally half their team. But even then Jonas dropped Pog on Ventoux, and over the last half of that race he and Pog were quite even. So the signs have been there from the start.

[@oleandersen5634]

@@paddymurphy-oconnor8255 Read Donadams comments again, he explains it quite clearly

[@LETOUR7TIMESFRANCE]

Congratulations Jonas Vinagaard and his whole Team..JV

[@IzzyPerezCycling]

Don’t discredit the performance of Jonas based on past experiences in the sport. The dude is a fighter and has prepared for this race better than his counterpart.

[@kristianpoulsen3476]

You should give more respect to Jonas

[@thomasnielsen6708]

Jonas isn't even taking Ketone-IQ unlike a big part of the rest of the peloton.

[@riseup3117]

and what is also different is Jonas in the competition. I don't think a different manager would have made a difference.

[@G-G9]

Thanks for treating this stage with compassion. It’s been one of the best tours since the Armstrong days and deserves respect

[@rankobarensic]

7 times Lance💪💪💪🙏

[@srenpetersen1681]

@@wyomingarsame with jonas now

[@RB..1]

@@srenpetersen1681the Jumbo Juice?

[@srenpetersen1681]

@@RB..1 yes like sky in 2015

[@richardb8220]

Sorry Lance, the difference is not because Allan Peiper is not with UAE it’s because Jonas Vinegaard is with Jumbo.

[@_clemens_]

Crashing in Liege and breaking his wrist was bad luck for Pogacar in the preparation. And I think he caught some kind of illness. Nevertheless, biggest difference is the perfect preparation of Vingegaard and Jumbo Visma, which don't allow any mistakes or bad luck for Pogacar. Without Vingegaard, Pogcar would still have the yellow jersey, and everyone would call Tadey the new Merckx.

[@thomaspetersen9991]

Another Bad excused poggi NOT win 😅😅😅.3 years ago in Jonas First Tour de France Jonas Did drop pogi 😅😅😅

[@fer38jan]

Lance is absolutely right: Mario Gianetti is not a good manager. Pushing your best rider around blindly is not good enough at this level.

[@mammasut8280]

Just the fact he thinks you can regain 30 sec from a bikechange, on a 2km stretch tells you he aint to smart.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

@@mammasut8280 The risk was too high something could go drastically wrong with a moving car bike change. Makes me think the risk analysis they do in that team makes for poor decision making. The "we want to win it all" is another example. You just can't. Physically but also mentally you just cannot prepare the same way as a singular focus. But apparently for them the risk proposition isn't taken seriously. All blew up in their face.

[@Hugo_Furst-x]

where was wout, today? was he too tired today, after all the extra work he’s done for his own ambitions? he wasn’t there to help jonas. but, he didn’t really need any help anyway

[@Big2Planker]

Agreed - bring back the TTT! It's a beautiful event.

[@douglasmeis7482]

Great show. Maybe the best of this year's tour. Great to hear LA's take on the "superhuman" comments with his history. I respect that he acknowledges "totally self-inflicted" and I think his perspective is unique and interesting.

[@danielfcoronado49]

You’re talking too much about it Lance. Let it go. Comment on the fact that he weighs like 12 pounds on his torso and 102 pounds on his legs. That combination is a winning brew

[@palexander5090]

If Tadej were as deft on the bike as these "excuse creators" are at crafting excuses; trying to explain WHY Tadej didn't do this, or why Tadej couldn't do that...Jonas was better!!! Chrysalis Chris reporting: "It would seem that those knuckleheads over at Jumbo have done gone and done it again. After all sorts of questionable tactics to effectively wear their opponent down, they've now gone and pulled a 'knuck-knuck' and taken the yellow...hello McFly...NOW they've blown the narrow lead and put more than SEVEN minutes on their nearest rival...idiots...now they've won another Tour....what 'knuckleheads'!" Shame on Jumbo Visma for trying to win the Tour, MEANIES!

[@thomasandersen1784]

Hi from Denmark. Just wanted to let you guys know, that i absolutly love to hear your daily thoughts on the Tour/stages. Thx for that. I wrote here before, with info regarding Vingegaard, so i will let it go this time ;-) But what a beast of a stage this was today, and frankly...even though i off course cheering for Jonas, it did hurt me to see Tadej hurt that much. He was really suffering today, but i already felt yesterday, that Jumbo will bring this home. Cheers from Thomas (53 years). Just an observation: Jumbo and Jonas, build he´s entire year around him winning the Tour. But u can also look at he´s wins this spring, and see that he has not been in-active. But it seems that they have cherry picked the races for him, before the Tour. And now he´s on the top of he´s game. Maybe there is something to look at here for UEA?

[@dannyho6786]

Oh really, your from Denmarl ? You expect us to believe this ? next thing you gonna say Vinguss is like your 2nd cousin or something like this man !!

[@lassechristiannielsen9667]

​@@dannyho6786What an intelligent answer, good on you 😅

[@dougkeating4335]

Today was a brutal stage. Impressive win and Jumbo pounced at the right time. It has been great watching the tour this year.

[@LisztyLiszt]

I was wondering when you were going to talk about Jonas, and when you did, it wasn't about his performance, it was about the questions about his performance.

[@joelmayores307]

do not expect these people to be fair commentators....the two are the real dopers...

[@LisztyLiszt]

@@joelmayores307 It's absolutely fair to talk about it, even if they're dancing around the edges because of their own history. The peloton represents the elite of the elite, and yet there is one guy who's making these select few look like amateurs.

[@LisztyLiszt]

Two guys if we're honest.

[@Phat-rj3jo]

⁠@@joelmayores307well you are right, so they know one when they sees one. Tour pace is faster than even Armstrong’s winning days, no way Armstrong would believe they are racing clean.

[@Usersixeightfourninefive]

34:45 the natural Evolution seems like THE TOUR OF NEW ENGLAND ending with Mount Washington every year but we can dream

[@fhowland]

Dude I totally agree! I’m in NH right now 10 min from Mt Washington and the riding is SO incredible here. You can easily put together a 100 mile loop with 10k+ feet of beautiful climbing. Plus the coast… cape cod, the Berkshires.. Vermont.. we need a tour of NE!

[@Calidastas]

Lol - GH main lining magnesium to handle the stress of working with LA so many years. It’s time to end the abusive relationship George 😂

[@johngillis7625]

Gentlemen....great show as always. I have a question for you all, and it is one that Chris Horner raised. Should Primoz R. leave Jumbo and go to another team. Especially if he wants another TDF run. I say he should. Would be great for the sport, and I think for him as well. Cheers Johnny G

[@SamuelSilva-bb9pd]

i’m glad “old LA who murdered is competition” as george said rode the tour back then to give us those shows and not the lance who would not attack just to have a chance to keep his secret…

[@george_freestyler]

Can't believe this line from LA - implying that JV should have sat up on the queen stage after TP was dropped to avoid questions about doping.. He should race as hard as he can in respect to his competitors and the sport. This is one area where LA has definitely lost the right to comment..

[@marinolman]

Pogi had no altitude camp either...but, still that would not have saved him..They designed this Tour for Jonas...Pogi knew this stage didn't fit him like a did Jonas that's why he wasn't optimistic or upbeat in any of the interviews...he saw the writing on the wall....Tour over

[@andrewlabat9963]

There are only 20 seats in F1.. 😉

[@gestell]

Next year will be huge! Both have won 2 TDF's. If Pogi has an injury free Spring he wins his third.

[@raknesfamily]

You can't underestimate the impact even a little crash like Pogacar had has on digestion - it kicks off adrenaline and that messes with digestion - it's literally one of the main jobs of adrenaline - he said after that he was eating and drinking as planned, but it was all sitting in his stomach / gut and not absorbing. He didn't have the fuel to perform - super bad luck.

[@chevyrydah04]

Nah he got smashed. Don’t start making excuses for him.

[@raknesfamily]

@@chevyrydah04 No excuses - just a possible explanation :-) He did get smashed - no denying it. Whatever the reason - there's a 7 min gap that makes me pretty happy.

[@Gaggerlotion]

Can you overestimate it?

[@Richie-C]

No little impact when u hit the road but I agree with u re digestion

[@raknesfamily]

@@Gaggerlotion Seems so :-)

[@allenelliott2114]

I was 14 when the USA Pro Cycling challenge came to Colorado and man that was the coolest thing. On the final day the route went right next to my church. Getting to see George and Andy Schleck (my favorite rider) was one of the coolest experiences of my life. Wish we still had a race in Colorado.

[@DNBMP764]

We need a tour focused pogacar, vingegaard, Roglic and evenepoel next year.

[@trebleseamen]

Roglic will not be a factor. Doesn't have quality as the others in their absolute peak form. Perhaps as a glorified helper for Jonas. But I think TJV will do as they did this year and have him try and win the giro/vuelta. Evenepoel, Jonas and Pogi with Ayuso could be fun !

[@NosyNorseman]

Jonas and Pogi will make mincemeat out of Remco in the mountains 🏔️

[@NeilHMohamed]

Respect to TP for being an incredible athlete and gracious competitor. I wasn't rooting for him but it wasn't fun to see him struggle that badly.

[@LETOUR7TIMESFRANCE]

Yeah it was😆

[@NeilHMohamed]

@@LETOUR7TIMESFRANCE damn…that’s cold🥶

[@NosyNorseman]

Jonas is all in on TDF peaking once, Pogi goes for classics peaking twice. Jonas also overall better climber (except 1-2 explosive 🧨 km) and excellent at TT … good combo for GT.

[@5508Vanderdekken]

4:08/19:29

[@ds2k15]

KZbin really buries these comments.

[@nunorb83]

Pogi strugles on hot days... The 2 Tour he won, 2020 was on september and 2021 there was some cold and rain.

[@Oldgames1000]

The col de la loze needs to be considered one of the greats.

[@GrAstaeR]

Jonas and Jumbo had prepared for the stage for weeks or months expecting it to be the decisive stage of the tour. He wanted to win the stage and therefore they decided to stick with the tactics prepared long before the surprising TT time gain. He was clearly surprised to see Pogacar get dropped early on the final mountain, but at that point his and Jumbos plan was allready being played out with 2 guys in the front ready to aid him in his pursuit for the stage win and time gains. At that point I don’t see any rider just relax and call of the plan, especially not if your legs were still ok.

[@milhouse53]

Pogacar needs to give the Le Tour a break now. Otherwise it will completely break him psychologically. He lost so much more time even though his team was stronger. He needs to go and race Giro or Vuelta and stay away from Jonas for some time let Jonas battle someone else

[@chevyrydah04]

That’s one of the reasons I think they need to stop comparing him to Eddy. He only races one tour a year. If he goes to the Vuelta Roglic and Remco will smash him.

[@milhouse53]

​@@chevyrydah04those years when a rider could win 2 or more Grand Tours are over. I think the Tour gets too hot..temperature wise like 40 degrees..and Pogacar performs better in Spring when it is cooler. Giro should be his race. Go there and win 3 in a row..then come back to Tour

[@DuderinoDeux]

Switch with Roglic for 24

[@glywnniswells9480]

UAE is a shocking team they mess up too much. They leave behind two superstars that they needed Juan Ayuso and Almeida... Shld have been there. Also they KNow Pog suffers in heat and bonks tgey could easily keep him cool and sugars and salt levels up. UAE SUCK. His broken wrist is not a problem

[@Ropadope23]

The more I hear those sponsors the less I want to buy them😊

[@markfairchild5122]

2 straight days of Jonas domination and all you talk about us Pog.

[@jbhager8662]

It's both.

[@joelmayores307]

they are dumb fanatics, that's why....

[@mikkohongisto6154]

Jonas did the talking for them

[@taart6]

Wout van Aert can combine the Tour de France with Flanders (and the other classics) ;) Think the issue is that, due to his wrist injury, he hasn't gotten enough training volume on the bike, causing the 3th week to be too much (especially in this extremely challenging Tour de France). Furthermore, he clearly suffered from stomach issues

[@NosyNorseman]

About the doping talks, the biggest problem is Slovenia and Denmark are small markets and people/media from “bigger markets” simply can’t accept they are totally outclassed… nothing we can do about that 🤷‍♂️. Funny when they win (classics and world champs) it never comes up 😊

[@Calidastas]

LA just can’t say it. Do you know what the difference is between TP winning and now when he isn’t? It isn’t Allen whoever. It’s JV. Just say it. JV is a beast. There’s some bias w LA on this - he just doesn’t like JV imo.

[@keepitreal1547]

Armstrong is always full of b.s

[@aleksandar2919]

Tadej tactic vs Jonas must change completly....

[@dirk6001]

Team time trials rock 👍

[@brucegelman5582]

Three wonderful events today. 1) Vingo put all questions to rest 2) A spectator offered a pizza to a bonking rider.A bit late to carb load. 3)Pogacar said when asked about today "It was fucked".I love that kid.

[@SuperFunSuperLiz1]

LOL, JB...I agree, I want to take away my brother's man card for not being able to grill, but his wife grills like a beast, so I guess he's got it made.

[@kristianv.jensen2456]

Pogacar is like a crown prince, who never really got to be king. Of course his fall from grace is interesting, but the real interesting question is, how Pogacar or anyone else is going to beat Vingegaard and Jumbo Visma the next couple of years?

[@gerthenriksen8818]

Kuss? Just tired? Still feeling the effect of the crash? Lost his 6th place. A shame, Can he get it back?

[@cnxkain]

Tadej's season and its preparation was impeccable if it wasn't for the crash at Liege. Had that not happen, he would have been at altitude camp and prepared for TdF at 100%

[@irvhh143]

My opinion as a non trained amateur, TP should have taken the year off. They rushed the recovery for what? My unprofessional view is that these top level athletes are too lean and this makes injury recovery more difficult. Don't let them cut you.

[@kevinhanna6112]

appreciate Lance being “real” look forward to “The Move” after every stage is it in the bag or what !!!

[@stineagerbk9234]

Pieper and UAE was in talks about him returning before this season (he stepped away for health reasons) in a part time consulting role of sorts. But the deal/agreement/plan went bust in March, and since May he's been working for Jayco as a consultant/advisor instead. So... Miyaki might not be an option.

[@milhouse53]

I think the Tour gets too hot..temperature wise like 40 degrees..and Pogacar performs better in Spring when it is cooler. Giro should be his race. Go there and win 3 in a row..then come back to Tour

[@donbarnard82]

These guys that are so strong when they're young, seem to fizzle out while still what was considered young at one time. Maybe peak performance happens at these younger ages, and only now do people know how to train to realize it. In other words, the fastest will always be early 20's now, and those guys will become 'slow' by their mid to late 20's. The assumption that because they're so strong at 20, they'll be dominating a long time, doesn't work unless they stop making new young people. :)

[@palexander5090]

Then WHY are a third of the stage winners over 30?

[@donbarnard82]

@@palexander5090 Because stage winners are mostly made up of people who can't win the tour. :)

[@dajudge6581]

Allan Peiter going home and battling his cancer, is seriously not the problem. LA do not know UAE or Tadje, why even make comments like this? What is wrong with you? Why not just come out and say it like Johan, ie. he miss a confidant.

[@okanaganmedia]

Listen, at the Pro level, this is do or die trying with no option. At this level, and you don't think these riders are taking "something" to make them super human, you are living under a rock. Jonas looked Super Human in the time trial and Stage 17. How the frick do you beat every rider by almost 2 mins in a time trial. Think about it.

[@okanaganmedia]

Lance....time to eat crow buddy! You're not always right. As tough as it may seem to YOU, you're an icon in the biking world, but sometimes your opinions are just wrong.

[@spo_rtief]

Lance LiveStrong for ever! 💪🏻

[@bendardania]

Jonas looks as dominant as you Lance. Cheers

[@arelman]

Now we have Lance Armstrong era gaps.

[@andrewwallace4481]

Pogacar surely never had enough Mileage in the legs after his accident for a Three week Tour. Week Three will find out any Rider in this case !! Falling of could not have helped him today especially in the latter stages of this stage 👍

[@joezephyr]

I too miss the team time trials.

[@thomaspetersen9991]

Jonas Dont do doping then Why Porschar win it all.jones comes From a city with 209 people and no he Dont dope.he beat All record from Runners to Cycling to all in The lab here.jonas Vingegaard Vingegaard is not doped.he is just a Super sports man

[@wimve4719]

Tadej was like Remco who won the TT with Covid. From BE, still an incredible ride. But, if you're not feeling good, you're not feeling good. End off. Tadej wil stil finish second in a grand Tour. Remco had to leave the Giro. Perspective! But still, big congrats to Tadej, his racing style is something we'll want to see but have remember years from now. And a well deserved win in TdF (that's Tour de Flanders 😀). Anyway, we're happy to be seeing him in the 'After Tour' Criteriums (Dutch btw) in Aalst (Alost). Very welcome!! To give you some more perspective, I'm from Eddy Merckx's prime time. Racing has gone through a lot, quite a few downers but the level today is just mindblowing. And I understand that quite a few people are suspicious. And rightly so, but just remember that people like Tadej and Jonas V. had 4 blood (not pee) test in 48 hours ...

[@rankobarensic]

team time trials are entertaining...

[@jfloyo11]

Egan the forgotten...and now Tade the Pogo stick gets bounced by the return of the True King

[@fhowland]

What an insanely hard stage! Anyone who could even finish it after the previous two weeks is superhuman.

[@Tiago850]

Bring back TTT ❤

[@thebudtrender]

Pogacar also won 2 tour on rim brakes,he lost 2 on disk brakes and even he mentioned it last year in an interview that those 3-400g do matter to him.Nobody ever won the Tour de France on disk brakes when rim brakes were present!👌🏼

[@Millicente]

That's just silly. 3-400g doesn't result in a difference this big, not when everyone else is on disk as well

[@donadams5094]

Exactly the kind of thinking that TJV has exploited. The whole cycling world is dominated by hidebound notions about bikes and training and everything else. But materials and nutrition and training and pretty much everything else has been advanced scientifically, and TJV has led the way in embracing these changes. I mean, DSM (I think) just did their first altitude camp *this year.* Riders and teams clinging to skinny tires and disc brakes and a million other details have been left behind. Even Sky/Ineos “marginal gains” were limited in their conception. The whole world of sport has advanced, and athletes in every sport are bigger, faster, and better trained than ever. Any cyclist clinging to rim brakes is a generation behind.

[@stevenmeyer9674]

Except most riders are now using 28mm tires that isn't possible with rim brakes.

[@26eightysix]

Dumb comment. Pog was defeated last yr and this yr by a rider using disc brakes. And are you saying that Pog wouldnt be dropped so early on a climb today if he was on a caliper brakes? 😂

[@dickieblench5001]

Finally binned the deep sections today. Only took two weeks to realise😂

[@joelmayores307]

No disrespect to Pogacar, but his BIG loss to Jonas showed his vulnerability in handling extreme pressure, he is a kid...and to his toxic fans- accept defeat...instead of questioning Jonas' performance. Jonas is on a higher level than your boy Pogi. Harsh but TRUE.

[@cospinan]

the most amazing is that even with his low day today, he is still second... he is still dominant, but I will say too ambitious. I am sure if he focuses on the TDF... well, the 10 seconds before the TT will be the rule (assuming JV is in this year level)

[@markc7902]

All of you making these silly accusations. You are the ones making these silly accusations, so you have to prove it. As far as I know, you are innocent until proven guilty. and you can't. But you can be petty behind a screen. He did well, just like pogacar did that year when he beat Primoz in the TT. how pitiful it is to listen to those of you who make unfounded accusations. Today they are tested by the tour, by their team, by their country and they have to write where and how, etc.. you didn't have to do that in the past, but you have to today. So if you still don't believe in the sport, why follow and watch it? That is pitiful.

[@seanbiggerstaff6582]

Lance's point is pretty clearly nullified by the evident fact that the team *are* paying Pogacar those millions, and they *are* allowing him to conduct his career in a way that doesn't prioritise the Tour to the nth degree. Pog can probably do without the advice of the sport's most notorious cheat and bully as he rapidly builds up the greatest palmares since Merckx...