The TRUTH About Draining Your Cooler - According to Science

[@theoutdoorempire]

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[@dallasarnold8615]

You really should have been tracking temperatures of the drinks as well, since the whole point of a cooler is to keep the contents cool/cold. My bet is that the drinks with the water would be colder.

[@NuncNuncNuncNunc]

1) You should show the temp charts one on top of the other. Much easier to see than reciting numbers. 2) It is not the ice retention that ultimately matters. What's the temperature of the soda? 3) You can take it further and measure soda temps after all the ice has melted and you have the cans either in water or air for a day or more.

[@Stacy_Smith]

Frozen water bottles keep the contents cold AND provide something to drink. Also your lunchmeat doesn't get soggy!

[@positivelynegative9149]

Now test whether hot water freezes faster than cold water. 🤣 It's a bona fide mystery. Legit scientists have investigated the matter, and the results are inconclusive. 🤷‍♂️

[@c-w-h]

Dont drain the water. Use several thin long towels to soak the cold water in it. Wrap it around your head. Dont resoak. Your head is dirty.

[@treborheminway3814]

A simplified view is to look at the thermal mass. Your constantly losing cold mass in one by draining cold water. Therefore, at any given time, that cooler has less thermal mass and less thermal inertia meaning it's easier to change the temp. Gets hotter faster.

[@GeoRedtick]

My thought exactly. That is why there was a much bigger difference in the high temperatures of the coolers that the low temperatures especially toward the end. The drain cooler would warm up much more because it didn’t have that thermal mass.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Same train of thought I had.

[@newmonengineering]

That is exactly my thoughts. It keeps thermal mass and also reduces the surface area where thermal contact of air causing heat transfer exists. It should definitely keep the internal contents cooler longer. One thing he could have done to make it more interesting and realistic is remove say 2 or 3 cans every day simulating actual usage. This would be equal amounts of thermal mass lost per day during normal usage and I wonder how that effects it. But, yes keep the water. One cool thing also would be to add salt to the water. This makes the water denser the ice would likely melt faster but the water should get colder at the same time. Would be an interesting thing to add to the mix.

[@michaellowe3665]

On the other side, water conducts the heat from the walls to the ice faster than air. If you did this in a non insulated box, the one with water would melt faster. How good your cooler is, makes a difference. Most coolers are probably good enough that keeping the water makes more sense unless you need to carry it.

[@fuzzyelm1]

Exactly! I thought anyone that ever took a eighth grade science class would know that leaving the water in would make it last longer ! And the better the cooler the more it will be ! It’s simple

[@MyFakeBrand]

So now I’m watching ice melting. What has my life become?

[@theoutdoorempire]

And I spend weeks at a time filming and analyzing said ice melting. Solidarity, my friend. Welcome to the void.

[@Damonnanashi]

I mean, I've watched paint dry. At least this has something to learn with it lol

[@MyFakeBrand]

@@Damonnanashi True. And this is a nice change from my usual watching grass grow.

[@2pugman]

When looking into a cooler, I would look for the can that's IN the ice water and super cold.

[@Gogogidget]

😂😂😂

[@leftistelf]

It isn’t about ice retention. It’s all about keeping the temperature low.

[@theoutdoorempire]

I agree with you.

[@markjordan2382]

Da leftistelf I hope that title doesn’t mean your a leftist! But that would explain that lame answer

[@Powerpickle68]

Can't keep the temp low without ice.....retain the ice

[@jonathansands3304]

@@Powerpickle68Sure you can; a cooler full of ice-cold water will keep the temp lower than a cooler full of air with a chunk of ice, as shown by the temps he recorded in the videos.

[@ecospider5]

I would go 1 step farther. It’s about keeping your mayonnaise and lunch meat cold. And they do not need an average low temperature. They need a guaranteed temperature that stays below 42 degrees. Or those couple hours at 45 degrees and your food has spoiled. With ice water, if you have water and there is still 2 cubes of ice in it that means the entire week the mayonnaise in the water never went above 42 degrees. Do the same test with that temperature sensor in a ziplock bag at the bottom of the cooler and you will see what I mean.

[@ZenithWest169]

As a chemistry teacher the email you got back saying to drain it because the water is at a higher temperature is very disappointing.... Like if you have ice that is melting and put it in a pot on the stove, crank the heat up and stir it as it melts..... At no point does the water get hotter, except after the ice has melted. This might be a tad bit inaccurate if you aren't stirring sufficiently (allowing a portion of water to change temperature without mixing it with the 0C water). Its literally one of the basic experiments we do in the lab. Have the students measure temperature vs time of ice to boiling and see it stay at 0C (same temperature as the melting ice) until nearly all of the ice melted. Basic highschool chemistry knowledge!

[@jamesclaytonbowman5977]

yep, the process of H20 changing states from solid to liquid is itself a heat sink, absorbing heat energy before the temp of the resulting liquid changes temperature.

[@TeknoMage13]

As an engineer that has been trained on the material properties and the physics of heat transfer I can assure you that it is VERY clear cut. Do not drain the water unless you can replace the ice. The reasons relate to heat capacity (how much energy is required to increase the temperature). You also partially defeat the insulation of the container when you break the seal of a container (opening the valve). Small air leaks can let a surprising amount of energy to flow from one side of a barrier to the other. One more thing, while the air temperature is interesting, it isn't the temperature we actually care about in this use case. The critical temperature to monitor is the food temperature. USDA guidelines dictate a maximum refrigeration temperature of 40 F for commercial food safety standards. Temperatures higher than that will result in increased rates of spoilage.

[@4u7umn05]

Another point is the nature of phase change materials. When ice is in contact with water the ice will keep melting until all of the water is at the melting temperature of the ice. So the temperature of the water in the undrained cooler should have been 32° or very near that. The whole time, until there was almost no ice. Edit: if anyone wants to try an experiment at home: grab a glass of ice and a thermometer that goes down to freezing. Let the ice melt and check the thermometer occasionally until the ice is gone.

[@TeknoMage13]

@@4u7umn05 Yes, you are correct. I omitted that as I felt my response was getting lengthy for a KZbin comment. Phase change plays a major role in absorbing energy.

[@drrussdc]

Thermodynamics both friend and foe. Friend to those who know and understand, foe to those yet to try to learn it. ;)

[@joea.2433]

You should have put a thermometer on one of the Coke cans. The cold water is going to continue to keep your drinks cold. What are the drained cooler has most of the cans sitting in hot air.

[@Zukuri620]

I loved Thermo I, II, and Heat Transfer. Now, my family hates me. Trading mass that's at a low temp and high specific heat for mass at a higher temp with a low specific heat = warmer beer.

[@jasoncbrooks74]

I bet if you measure the temperature of the cans and not air temp the cans stay colder longer in the non drain. Ice melts, you get cold water insulating the cans. In the drained cooler the ice melts you get air around the cans. The goal should be to keep the product cold not to keep ice longer.

[@theoutdoorempire]

I agree. But both options produce nice and cold sodas for most of the time so 🤷‍♂️

[@jollyJedi]

This was the question I was looking for

[@brianzmek7272]

Both are useful for example drain could be better for a one day piknick when being colder is the main point but on a camping trip ice retention is probably the main concern.

[@phuul98l]

This is what I was checking for. The draining cooler likely had warmer drinks than the left in one, and my goal with the cooler is coldest, not longest as my yeti can keep sodas on ice while inside the car for 10 days. In my soda/beer cooler I will try to add more ice and salt, to keep colder drinks longer, but no salt in food cooler, or one with screw on bottle tops (plastic water bottles).

[@justinlabarge8178]

​@@brianzmek7272why is ice retention the main concern? What matters is being cold as long as possible. Who cares if there is ice if the cooler warms up faster.

[@MotherBiscuitLover]

I'd like to see this same test except instead of checking the temperature of the air/water inside of the cooler, you pull out a can of soda when you check, and you measure the temperature of the soda inside the can. Because the whole point of the cooler is to get what ever is inside the can cold, the air temperature is an intermediate part of the process, the fluid inside the can is the final result.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Great suggestion! Thank you.

[@juanalejandrosotto6217]

The cooler with water will win this, we all know that already. The water serves as better heat exchange that air

[@dw734]

This is the best test!

[@alexsherel3344]

And add should add a bit of salt too…seriously…

[@alphazero924]

@@juanalejandrosotto6217 Except the melted water will be at a higher temperature than the ice which will be in direct contact with the can unlike the air at the top of the cooler which has a whole bunch of other air insulating it from the ice.

[@ChrisGramm]

Would've been great if you measured the temp of one of the drinks from each cooler at different stages. Because we don't use coolers to watch ice melt.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Haha, ya I guess that's just me. Noted, thanks!

[@ChrisGramm]

@@theoutdoorempire I'm not complaining though. It was fascinating and I was rooting for the "leave the plug in" cooler.

[@Mrmisterrs]

If you've got ice in your cooler all liquid is about 33 degrees, now if youve got glass it may affect retention but it'll still be right above freezing until all ice melts

[@jasonmansfieldsr8645]

Regarding the 12:00 “it’s not really clear cut…”: I’ll say it is clear cut. That ice and water are colder than the warm air that rushes in when you open the cooler or that replaces the cold water you have allowed to drain out. That water has an enormous thermal capacity in relation to air, even more when you consider that the water is already cold and the air is warm. Cold water takes a lot more heat to warm it up than air does and so it will take much more time to allow the cooler to warm up. But if it’s your cooler, you do what you want. As a guest, I’ll do my best to honor the wishes of the host, and as a host I expect the same of my guests. Even if we have differing ice retention philosophies. 😂

[@ecospider5]

@Mrjizzonyourface2 Melted ice water sinks as it warms up until it hits 39.2 degrees. So the bottom of the cooler is between 39 and 40 degrees. This is why fish are always at the very bottom of a frozen lake. It’s the warmest spot.

[@sthippe1992]

This video was a lot cooler then I expected.

[@theoutdoorempire]

I see what you did there.

[@Arturiens]

Dad?

[@oceanwaves83]

​@@Arturiens🤣

[@fiscolorado656]

Must've kept the water in the cooler.

[@justinraywolfe]

Shut up and take my upvote.

[@swnorcraft7971]

Very simple. Mass retains temperature. The draining water removes mass AND cold. The absence of cold leaves what? Thanks for your time involved in this experiment...........Be well.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Great point. You're welcome and thanks for watching!

[@notofthisworld5998]

There is no such thing as cold. It is only the absence of heat.

[@decwow]

​​@@notofthisworld5998 Ah, yes..... Always one from the "nothing doesn't exist" crowd.

[@The_Mister]

I fill empty juice bottles with water and freeze them. I don’t know if it keeps things colder, but the ice seems to last longest that way and my stuff doesn’t get wet.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Great idea!

[@johnswanson3741]

It is not as dense of an ice freeze, and subsequently does not last quite as long as a store bought block of ice. But I do the same just because I am so cheap and it works well enough in most cases for short jaunts.

[@thechumpsbeendumped.7797]

@@johnswanson3741 In what way is it not as dense? To all intents and purposes water and ice is incompressible so it’s density is the same. Where you’ll get some difference is that a couple of juice boxes does not have the same surface area as a many small cubes and so would be less efficient at keeping the whole container cool.

[@thechumpsbeendumped.7797]

I always use unopened milk, juice and water containers (stuff me and my family can drink) if I needed the cooler to remain at a safe temp for several days. I never saw the point in taking refilled containers coz they take up too much space and we wouldn’t drink them. I always make sure the first days drinks were only chilled prior to placing in a separate plastic bag inside the cooler so we could easily identify the ones to consume first.

[@MrGadgt]

The ice lasts longer because of lower surface area exposed to air. More exposed surface area equals more thermal exchange between ice and air. Bag ice will theoretically maintain a colder temperature than your method, but for a shorter period of time than your method. Both methods are effective though.

[@mikemorgan5015]

I've done both for decades. My bottom line is drain for food and don't drain for drinks. The thermal mass of cold water is great for retaining steady temps, but the inner surface of the cooler is in 100 percent contact with 5 out of 6 sides of that thermal mass where drained ice has air between the nuggets. So that from my experience evens things out. Your results are on point. For drinks, that thermal mass can keep ALL the drinks in the cooler at the same cold temperature longer. But difference is often not worth the hassle that a big cooler full of heavy sloshing water can create. For food? Is there anything worse than a leaky zip lock bag of ham full of water? Yes! A leaky zip lock bag of cheese full of water. No thank you. This is why I drain food coolers. Measuring the air temperature at the top of the cooler is pretty much, but not totally worthless. That's not where the drinks or the food are. Hot air rises, cold air sinks. My best recommendation for any cooler is to keep them off the ground and out of the sun. I get insulated foam sheathing board at the local home center and cut out the foot print of the cooler to set them on, which helps quite a bit, but even setting the cooler on a couple of wood strips will go a long way. Setting a cooler on concrete, dirt, or sand is a bad idea if ice retention is the goal. This is only a big issue if you are going out for long periods. An extra bag or two of ice can sometimes be a better expense than a cooler that costs many times more, especially if you are only on a 3 day trip.

[@ecospider5]

Soggy cheese does suck. But without the water you can not guarantee that the lunch meat is safe to eat. Water with a single cube of ice in it has not been warmer than 40 degrees. Which is the food safe temperature of a refrigerator. If you put that lunch meat in a cooler that is draining the lunch meat is going to get above 45 degrees at some point each day. Which will cause the lunch meat to spoil faster.

[@indigotidebeeblebrox9978]

My biggest issue with coolers was not temperature, it was keeping the racoons from stealing my food. I don't think they cared if it was drained or not..

[@superuser4350]

As a long time camper and eater, I prefer to keep the cooler ice (and subsequent cold water) in a dry bag on top of the food being kept cool. Solves a lot of problems.

[@smetz2464]

As a Ph.D. field geologist and former chemistry teacher, I think the key is all about retaining the lower temperature THERMAL MASS. Meaning, near-freezing ice-melt cold liquid water (remember both coolers started with identical amounts of ice from the same source = same temperature) has more thermal mass than the depleted ice which had the melt liquid removed. And since H2O has such a high heat capacity (meaning it takes a lot of heat energy to warm it up, first to melting and then to ever-warmer liquid), the greater water mass of the undrained cooler will "resist" heat incursion (outside heat, greater than inside, is continuously "creeping into both coolers since heat flows from more to less) longer than the smaller thermal mass of water in the drained cooler. Btw a good way to further extend the cooler's coolness is to wrap the cooler in a mylar space blanket to reduce the amount and rate of outside heat making its way into the cooler. Some exterior heat will "bounce" off the mylar and not burden (warm up) the ice. Many smaller factors are also at work here but are less influential. For example, warm air is sneaking into the drained cooler via its open plug. That cooler would warm up slower if it had been drained often but no fresh warm air allowed back in. Protecting/holding on to the cooler air in a sealed "drained cooler" would be cooler (win!) but still have faaaaar less thermal mass than the undrained ice bath cooler (thus the drained cooler will still warm up faster than the greater thermal mass ice bath.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Can't argue with your CV or your input. Thanks for sharing, great stuff!

[@mikeries8549]

Gee that's a lot of words.

[@Jason608]

This makes the most sense to me. I also don't think that the amount of time it takes for all the ice to melt is the correct measurement criteria here as seems to be implied by the video. Your drinks can be colder in a cooler filled nearly to the brim with 33° F water and sealed compared to a cooler that has no water, a mere 2 tiny ice cubes left, and the rest of the cooler has 50° F air in it because the cap is off and outside air has infiltrated the box! I don't think both sides are correct here.

[@LuigiMordelAlaume]

By far the best, most comprehensive answer. No one else seemed to consider things like specific heat capacity or ambient heat entering the drain hole. A+ to the teacher 😊

[@BillLaBrie]

That’s swell. But if you’re keeping anything in the cooler besides cans and bottles, you’re going to want to occasionally drain it, because water will get into your meat and cheese and pot roast and whatever and ruin it. So in a practical way, it can be essential to drain the cooler and accept the loss of cooling retention.

[@Rickmakes]

The melted ice has a much higher thermal mass than air so it is going to slow the rate of the temperature change. Often times it is best to drain the cooler because it makes it easier to carry and you are only using your cooler for a day or two.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Great point!

[@RobS123]

Bottom line is I bet the Cokes in your ice bath/water cooler are a lot colder than the cans in the cooler with dry, cube ice. I would guess the water transmits temperature more efficiently to aluminum cans, or a gallon jug of milk, than air.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Not a bad guess! I can say that can of Coke I popped open at the end of the video was still cold enough to be enjoyable (though not as cold as I love) and it was bobbing in the water left in the non-draining cooler whose ice had all melted the day before.

[@mike1why]

😂 That would be the point of keeping the drinks in the cooler. I care f*** all about how much ice I saved to sell to the natives.

[@mrcryptozoic817]

You're right. What is the average temperature of all those Cokes? The drained on clearly has Coke in 55° air. The others are 80 to 90% submerged in cold water. The mass and density of water wins.

[@alphazero924]

I mean, you'd be wrong. The water would be insulating the cans *from* the ice rather than helping to transfer the heat. With the drained cooler, the cans stay in direct contact with the ice which will keep them colder.

[@mike1why]

@@alphazero924 It would be silly to guess. Put some ice in the chest and take the temperature of the drinks both ways. You'll find that for the wet case, the water and drinks are both very near 32 degrees. The dry case will be much warmer in comparison.

[@hulk611]

I think the real finding of this study was that you kept ice in a cheap $50 Coleman cooler for a weak. Not an over priced brand! Why shell out $300 for one of those other brands?

[@schwuzi]

Truth!

[@soundped]

Yeah, but it was in the shade. I'd like to see this test with the coolers in full sun.

[@xmhkillz]

The same reason people buy apple products.

[@inyobill]

@@soundped If you keep your cooler in the sun while camping, you're making a big mistake. Testing in the shade is real-world condition.

[@Flamingtac0]

1) Well insulated coolers can be had for way less than $300. I catch Magellans on sale for $130. 2) I've had the cheap coleman coolers. They don't even come close in the summer, IN THE SHADE. Throw a 90°F+ week at them, any foodstuffs at the top of the cooler that must be kept cool are going bad starting with day 3. Even adding a gasket to the lid doesn't make them comparable. They have 1/3-1/2 the insulation in the body, and none in the lid. Magellan, I can throw in the covered bed of my truck which gets insanely hot in the sun, drive all day to a park, then spend 3-4 days in 90°F weather before adding ice. The Colemans, I always added ice before entering a park because I knew I'd need it the next day after soaking in the heat during the drive. 3) The more expensive coolers are much more durable. They are a lifetime product, while you'll wear out a cheap cooler in 3-5 years. My Magellans have rubber read on tough plastic wheels. They roll much better over rough terrain, and don't wobble. The wheels on one of my cheap Coleman wore through, on another they wore off the axle. Both axles would pop out of the bottom of the cooler because the exterior plastic of the cooler was thin. The magellans have sturdy metal handles for rolling that do not flex, making maneuvering more controlled. They also have marine rope at both end with rubber sleeves for carrying. The Magellans can be opened from either side, and the lid is easily removed for cleaning. The latches have easy to access lock release buttons, keeping critters out while permitting single motion latch release. The lock tabs have steel reinforcements, and there's an integrated bottle opener. The coolers come with dividers that can be inserted into multiple locations, and can be used as cutting boards. There's also a tray for keeping items out of the ice. Cheap coolers are fine, but to say they are as good as expensive coolers is wishful thinking, and doesn't work even if your only criteria is keeping food cold. I've been able to cut the size of my coolers nearly in half with better ones, and that's been huge as we often camp with two bikes and kayaks taking up all the space on top the bed, so everything has to fit under the bed cover. Not an easy feat when you organize your gear in boxes and are are clamping with the wife, or spending a week in remote backwaters.

[@ericsauer2862]

The trick is when you have to restock your cooler with warm beverages, drain the water and use that cold water to pre-chill the warm beverages in a separate cooler/container before you move it into the iced cooler. This will cool the warm beverages down in the most ice-efficient manner.

[@Gotdurt]

When traveling, I've always tried to keep as much of the water as possible, *with minimal sloshing*... If it stationary, like at a campsite for a few days, then I leave water in, because I don't have to worry about items staying put.

[@socalpaul487]

Your drinks will stay colder in ice water.

[@chuckschillingvideos]

Nope. They get cold faster because they are surrounded by the water, but once they are at their lowest temp they will stay colder in ice.

[@glennlavalle9807]

​@@chuckschillingvideosyou are kidding I hope.

[@zephsmith3499]

​@@glennlavalle9807 It's not impossible. The temperature of ice water is essentially the freezing temperature, 0 deg C. Ice however can be colder than 0 deg C, and could conduct that to a food item. Imagine putting 20kg of ice at -50 deg c in an insulated box, and then adding a single coke at 0 deg C. That coke is going to freeze. What I'm saying is that the large amount of ice can rise to, say, -10 C while cooling the small amount of coke to -10 C (with the big heat sink being state change of course). The ice we use in coolers is not going to start that cold, of course. But it could be -5 or -10C. If any layer of melted ice (water) is quickly removed, the ice can chill contents to slightly below freezing. This is just a thought experiment, with little practical application.

[@goldcountryruss7035]

Not really, the ice will melt at 32F and water contacting the ice will also be 32F. The ice being less dense will begin floating on the water that is forming. The water will initially remain at 32F and as more water forms under the ice, the coldest water being denser than the warmest water on top will sink to the bottom, starting a natural circulation that will continue until the ice melts. What you are missing is the fact that the water remaining is cold, probably averaging about 33F. Why would you throw that water away? If you start with 10lbs of ice ultimately you will have 10lbs of water, but it will be only slightly above the 32F melting point. The temperature differential between say 33F water and an average of 80F outside air temperature is 47 degrees X 10lbs= 470 BTUs of cooling potential remaining in the water. This is the equivalent to melting another 3lbs of ice. How long that lasts would be determined by the thermal gain (insulation) of the cooler. PS: You should have been measuring the temperature of the Coke can nearest the center of the cooler, the air temp meant very little. Hope this makes sense, I'm really sleepy!

[@theoutdoorempire]

That is awesome feedback, huge thanks for sharing! I wish I could have had a phone call with you before I did this test.

[@doubledrats235]

Great explanation (I am a mechanical engineer). As I said in a previous response to this video, I would have measured what is being stored (cans of liquid drinks and wrapped food). Since it’s important to keep the food dry I would keep it in a separate drained cooler or in a sealed container (Tupperware?) on top of the floating ice and cans.

[@Liam_Patton]

Man I love "I know what I'm talking about but it's 3am and I'm literally dying of exhaustion to type this" comments. 100% of the time there's something to learn from them. Not always right, but always worth reading.

[@zephsmith3499]

Great analysis. One dynamic not mentioned is that the rate of thermal gain through the insulation is roughly proportionate to the delta temperature (for a given insulation). So once the ice is all melted, the rate of temperature rise (degrees per hour, say) will be high when the delta is 80-33, and not so fast when it's 80-70. The inside temp will asymptotically approach the ambient temp.

[@Laugh1ngboy]

Duh Add salt for best performance.

[@Lord_zeel]

The water from melted ice is still COLD. Being melted doesn't mean it isn't still helping to keep your drinks and other stuff cool, if you drain it out you're replacing it with normal temperature air instead which doesn't help at all. Also, the more surface area something has in contact with the ice the faster it will cool down... but ice is really lumpy and won't end up touching the cans or other things directly with a lot of area. But water, being a liquid, can touch your stuff everywhere - having some water in the ice will make it cool down anything you put in there faster because the transfer of heat will be more efficient. There are only two reason to open the drain while in use: If there's something in there that you don't want to get wet, or you intend to regularly top-up the ice with fresh ice and need the water to drain out to make room for more.

[@patrickotto2727]

What about a combo of both. Leave the water in until you lose about half the ice. Then drain the water leaving only enough to keep the cans in the water. It would be interesting to see what water to ice ratio would be ideal for maintaining the best and longest temps.

[@thechumpsbeendumped.7797]

The temp just under the lid is of little importance, what you need to know is if your food is being kept in the safe zone so that bacteria is not multiplying dangerously. As such the thermometers would have been better placed lower in the coolers, either at the bottom or attached to a can. To make it fair I’d have placed both probes in saucers of water at the bottom so that they were measuring the temp of the water retained in them.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Great idea, I'll keep that in mind for future tests. Thanks!

[@danielbanks7500]

You know food at the top of the cooler where the water was drained was not as cold as the cooler with water. The air temp plays a bigger role there. If you keep the food submerged in the water in water tight packaging the difference will substantially more as the water temp stays below the air temp. In the end that is why I am using a cooler, to prevent bacteria. How long the ice lasts is in itself a stupid discussion unless your cooler is ONLY for drinks.

[@thechumpsbeendumped.7797]

@@danielbanks7500 There was no food at the top of the container. Other than that I think you’re agreeing with what I said, unless I’m misunderstanding you.

[@danielbanks7500]

@@thechumpsbeendumped.7797Yes, I do agree with you. If that were my cooler there would be food in there as well. On a purely drink cooler it isn't as relevant.

[@amelliamendel2227]

Maybe a time lapse with a even thermometer in each

[@robertschultheis1769]

One possible issue with this experiment is the thermometer is located on the lid, not where the drinks are. The draining cooler has more air, thus more room for hot air to accumulate. I wonder if having the thermometer measure the temp of the beverages themselves would show different results? Regardless, thank you doing this important experiment, I have argued about this too many damm times!

[@theoutdoorempire]

Ya that would have been interesting to have another thermometer in there. I'm sure the actual readings would be different (lower) closer to or in the ice, but I'm quite confident that the relative changes would be similar.

[@brendykes1202]

I’d rather eat food that maxed out 7 degrees cooler. At that point, it’s not about comfort. It’s about not eating spoiled food & getting sick.

[@SithApprenticeTV]

I misread the title and thought it said the truth about dating your cooler

[@davidzajano1983]

For any given cooler if your goal is to keep the contents as cold as possible for as long as possible three principles should be followed: 1. Pre chill the cooler 2. Pre chill the food, beverage, bait or whatever else you will be storing in the cooler. 3. Fill the cooler with the coldest ice you can get. Ice melts at 32°F, but the bag/block of ice that you place in the cooler have a temperature of 31° or -20° or any other temperature lower than 32°. The colder the ice starting out the longer it will take to melt. So not all bags of ice are equal.

[@AndersonsStreaming]

Sprinkle some salt on top of the ice and see how cold the cans get. I was in the Army in the Desert or down in the Sothern regions of the US. We used to move around a lot and convoy a lot. I used to carry a cooler that could hold 6 - 12 paks. We did not have refrigerators or air conditioners for our trucks but we did have access to or could buy ice everywhere on the road. We were allowed to drink soda during the day but not beer. We had to wait until we were off duty in the evening. One day in West Texas it was 112 degrees out and we had to work until 9:00 that night. We got done I went to my cooler. My chief showed up to go through some paperwork with me. I asked if he wanted a beer and grabbed one out of the cooler. The condensation or steam rolled off and dropped from the can the minute it got out into the air. It was literally ice cold. Ice crystal would form when you popped the top for a few seconds. My chief was astonished and said he had never had a beer that cold out of a cooler and on such a hot day. I layered ice and salt as I filled the cooler all the way to the top. I drained the cooler a little every time I added more ice but kept about 4 inches of water in the bottom. The best tasting coldest beverage to enjoy when it is sweltering hot outside. All day long we drank luke warm water to stay hydrated. At night we drank other stuff.

[@inyobill]

It works (See: hand-crank ice cream freezer), but it takes a lot of ice. When I'm using an ice chest, getting ice is normally the long-pole.

[@Gadget0343]

Just started watching this. I would think that leaving the drain valve open would allow cold air to leave and be replaced by warm air.

[@theoutdoorempire]

That's probably true to an extent. Though I'm not convinced draining only periodically would have made much of a difference given over a whole week the difference here was only a few hours.

[@thermalreboot]

I'm of the camp that replacing cold water with warm air causes the ice to melt faster, but I'm interested in seeing how this turns out.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Yep, seems to be a common thread.

[@Assassin32VR]

What about an ice block?

[@xraargu6212]

To put it too simply, if you remove cold, you add heat. (Assuming the air outside the cooler is higher than your target temp and the water temp is lower.)

[@PetePuebla]

I'm going with don't drain.

[@chuckschillingvideos]

RTIC is absolutely right. Drain the water and replace with fresh ice at every opportunity. Also, a couple more points: 1) Endeavor to make the food and beverages as cold as possible BEFORE you put them in the cooler. If you put warm items into a cooler, a great deal of ice mass will be wasted just getting it to temp. If your food items can safely be frozen, freeze them before you put them in the cooler. 2) Put the food and beverages in FIRST, then put the ice on top of them. Ice on top will provide a thermal barrier from the warmer air above.

[@zephsmith3499]

The RTIC response references a different scenario - adding more ice. Of course, a cooler to which you add more ice will do better, whether drained or not drained. If you are willing and able to keep getting more ice, this all become somewhat moot, or at least transforms into a different question in order to compare apples to apples. I think an interesting experiment would be: put in say 30 pounds of ice to each cooler. When both are about half melted, add another 20 pounds - draining one first and leaving the cold water in the second. Then there are two opposing effects. (1) The loss of the near-freezing thermal mass of water, and (2) the possible increased thermal coupling of the ice to the cooler walls via water (100% surface coupling with water convection and conduction, versus a smaller ice to wall surface with just conduction. I'm not sure which would dominate over the remaining timeline.

[@chuckschillingvideos]

@@zephsmith3499 That is very true. Yet as with so many other things, I personally know idiots for whom the idea of not ever adding ice once they have a cooler represents some bizarre point of pride. They'll be damned if they're not going to prove their point that the $450 they blew on their lovely Yeti plastic box isn't the smartest money ever spent.

[@Wrenchmonkey1]

RTIC is definitely wrong. They left out that you should also leave your food in the fridge/freezer, instead of the ice chest, any time you have access to a fridge. Huge oversight on their part.

[@zephsmith3499]

@@Wrenchmonkey1 The question is: is it better to drain the water or leave it in? Some things which do not bear on that question: * Chill the interior of the cooler first * Chill the food first * Add ice whenever you can * Chill the food whenever you have access to a refrigerator/freezer during a trip * Don't open the cooler too often * Keep the cooler out of the direct sun * Keet the exterior of the cooler as cool as you can (eg: cover with a blanket or other insulation) All of those are good tips, but do not address the question on the table. RTIC added the third on this list, you added the fourth.

[@Wrenchmonkey1]

@@zephsmith3499 Right. That's my point. If we're going to pretend that "keep adding more ice" is the best answer, then surely "use a refrigerator" is an even better answer. If we're not giving credit for answers that aren't material to the question at hand, then their mention of adding ice is equally irrelevant and superfluous. Gotta pick one. 👍 Edit: stupid autocorrect.

[@JayAcker]

Talk about missing the forest for the trees, who cares when there is no more ice or if there’s a little bit of ice left, not draining kept the inside at what ended up being a pretty significant difference at the end. And I’ll tell you in Phoenix it does matter, the drinks would be warm in a day or two if you let the water drain out. Also you didn’t even touch on the real reason why not to let the water out and even why it had less ice but remained colder and it had nothing to do with replacing air or insulating the ice. Water has an enormous potential for absorbing heat. Its one of the best heat sink materials because it absorbs so much. So for the same reason it melted the ice quicker is why it kept the contents cooler is because it sucked up all the potential energy. In Phoenix we add more ice after the original ice melts because we want as much water in a cooler as possible and melting ice just makes room for more.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Great input, thanks for taking the time to share!

[@josephregester7780]

as a mechanical engineer with many year in industrial refrigeration I would note ge following 1 Define What Want I would recommend a target of a beverage at 45F or cooler 2 Measure Directly Make a soda filled can with a probe inside 3 Comps What you are looking to measure is How Long each method can maintain the target temp. Fundamentals there are 2 key components of heat (or cold) in water: Specific heat and Latent heat of fusion. Latent heat of fusion is much larger in general. In theory you would retain the water until the bath gets near the target temp, then dump all the water

[@TheDuckofDoom.]

You are neglecting boundary layer effects on total U-value.

[@christopherjones7191]

May I ignore friction in this scenario?

[@leonardsalt]

​@@christopherjones7191 no, friction generates heat. You can, however, assume a spherical cow since this won't have a significant effect on our calculations.

[@Seth_5569]

U could even go as far as to test if ice that is broken up completely vs ice that is left in large chunks last longer with or without water.

[@elijahmccormick3360]

Also not to mention the fact that, if you are letting the water drain constantly, you have a literal hole in the cooler for air to get in. This hole is also at the very bottom of the cooler, where all your cold air is settling thus being lost.

[@pootinplays]

The most simple view: think of trying to boil water. The more water you have the longer it takes to boil. The more mass you have the longer and more energy it takes to change that temp

[@theoutdoorempire]

I like what you're saying.

[@williamfuller2389]

Depends on the application. If you're using the cooler for drinks and sealed food products, don't drain it. If you want to avoid water intrusion into food items or want to have ice available for use in drinks and such, drain it. There's a reason why AC and heating units pull out the moisture in the air to effect temperature changes. Moisture, humidity retain thermal conditions.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Good point!

[@TrentTationnaiseXization]

I dont know of any heating or cooling devices that purposely collect moisture.

[@williamfuller2389]

@@TrentTationnaiseXization Why, then, do AC units often have drain outlets built in to dispose of collected moisture? That's not freon that's being separated from the ambient air. It's water condensation being drawn out.

[@TrentTationnaiseXization]

@@williamfuller2389you are right. it's a byproduct that's dumped contributing nothing to the system.

[@slinky159]

@@williamfuller2389 because condensation is an unavoidable consequence of cooling air below its dew point. It actually releases a lot of energy (heat) when water condenses so not all applications actually want to use even more energy to move all that extra heat.

[@zaphodbeeblebrox2817]

It's simple, if you let cold water drip out, that amount of "cold" is lost.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Excellent summary.

[@johnswanson3741]

Common sense

[@Golden_SnowFlake]

Water has an extremely high thermal retention, so its best in almost all temperature situations, to contain water. Steam can however be explosive, so bear that in mind.

[@rbrtplly]

Verify both thermometers read the same temp in the same environment. I have seen a variance of 2 to 5 deg. sitting right next to each other.

[@paulstaf]

You should have put a temp sensor in a bottle of the liquid because the whole point of a cooler is to keep drinks cool the longest, not preserve ice. The sodas in the drained cooler would have been much warmer than the non-drained cooler. The reason is due to the mass of water vs. air.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Yep, that's my assumption as well.

[@tech8mark464]

Nice video. If you really want to see the benefit of keeping the water in the cooler, try removing some cold drinks and replacing them with uncooled drinks. As long as the water is significantly cooler than the drinks you are putting in, the drinks will cool faster when surrounded by water than when surrounded by air.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Well said!

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

Yes, the only time to remove the water is when you want to lighten the cooler for transport or to clear space for more ice. There's no benefit at all to removing the water other than that until it gets warm enough that it's no longer keeping the items in the cooler cool.

[@spmadeinusa4594]

Both. We put a foam sub-cooler with meat inside into our main unit .The smaller sub-cooler has 4" of foam by itself. Sub-cooler meat starts out frozen solid. We move what's needed for the next day to the undrained space outside the sub after putting it inside a ziploc so it is ready for the grill or stove. This approach approximates a freezer and refrigerator juxtaposition.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Brilliant! Very clever system you've got going on.

[@jasonlee5317]

Speaking is Laymans terms, keep the water. Ice is water. Just because it melts doesn’t mean it isn’t still cold. The goal is to retain the cooling effects of ice and the cold water will keep cooling drink, etc. The air that replaces the water came in from outside and is warm.

[@mrbmp09]

I'd like to see a similar test with 2 coolers in a car or back of a truck where the ice/ water is sloshed around. Moving water rapidly erodes ice.

[@ZommBleed]

Now...add salt.

[@jeremiahbullfrog9288]

Unnecessary unless you're making ice cream or want to keep a frozen food frozen.

[@stanzlow]

The ultimate question would be: “how cold is the contents in a coke can at the end of each day?”, since keeping the contents of the cooler coldest the longest is the ultimate goal.

[@theoutdoorempire]

Indeed. I should have drunk a coke from both every day and shared how delightful it was. 😂 But really, I could have taken more temps for sure. I figured one continuous read of internal temps would correspond pretty well to the temps of the contents, at least relatively.

[@m2pmd70]

I'm betting you would have seen a bigger difference in the temp of the sodas than the air in the coolers after the first day or so.

[@keeperofthegood]

Growing up, ice was sold in a single solid block for a lower price than "party ice" like you used. Mom used to do as others have mentioned, and freeze her own blocks for our cooler. I would question the "is it better" solid block vs party ice :)

[@theoutdoorempire]

Party ice, I love that! Indeed I would expect block ice to do better, but unfortunately a lot of block ice you buy these days is just compressed party ice. However just this week I bought some ice directly from a local ice company for another video I'm working on and they also sell clear block ice in 50 pound and up to 300 pound blocks! That clear ice, I suspect, will last the longest since it doesn't have a bunch of air trapped inside like other ice you buy.

[@billpetersen298]

Block ice, lasts way longer.

[@barongerhardt]

The increased surface area of party ice will exchange heat faster. As such, if the test is which will cool faster, it will be party ice. It will also melt faster. If the question is which provides more total cooling, they will be the same (assuming using same mass of ice).

[@UnlikelyToRemember]

If you have the room in your home freezer, fill plastic milk jugs about 95% full and freeze them. Block ice AND the melt water stays contained so you don't ruin something in the cooler due to an imperfect ziploc seal.

[@chuckschillingvideos]

Block ice doesn't cool nearly as efficiently as crushed ice. Period. When you crush ice, you massively increase the surface area available for heat transfer. So the air being cooled with block ice doesn't get nearly as cold, nor as quickly as that with crushed ice. The reason your beloved block ice lasts so long is because it isn't doing much cooling.

[@0h2ezy]

I would think leaving the plug out introduces outside air into the cooler. So a happy medium would be better

[@idriveaxj5670]

I noticed at the end you opted for a Coke from the No Drain Cooler, good man.

[@MikeA671]

I don’t care what the internal temperature is, let’s monitor the temperature of the drinks for a week and see how long they stay cold.

[@theoutdoorempire]

The ice retention test that started the drama 👉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGGxlp9papammMk NEW ice retention test with 38 coolers! 👉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipqsgWmAgdpsgMU The cheap cooler I used for this test is actually pretty great! amzn.to/3RtU0AS (affiliate link, FYI)

[@johnmuricasmith8641]

Third variable add: add a few cups of salt to the ice in the cooler. Guaranteed to make ice last longer and water cooler than 32 degrees.

[@randyross5630]

Forethought: Cold Goes Down, so the Freezing Air should escape out the Bottom as much as the Ice Water will Drain out...

[@randyross5630]

You Need to do the Test Again, but Drain One Cooler once or twice a Day and Immediately Cap it when the water runs light to not let any air escape, the Cold Air that goes to the Bottom Escaped out the Constantly Open Drain on the Bottom.

[@AzraelThanatos]

One thing to also consider is the drip drain compared to draining it regularly, but keeping it closed. I'm not sure about the mechanism, but the drain might open up a gap in the insulation when it's open and create a difference of its own

[@deepinthought469]

try with block ice, frozen gallon jugs, snow loose fill, snowballs packed neatly, and maybe try one of those 12v peltier coolers to see if it makes any kind of difference, and try some dry ice for fun...

[@pelagic5505]

When i go fishing for numerous days and keep fish i always leave the water in and ive always had it last longer colder

[@Xhalo1183]

I actually salt the ice to turn into water faster as the temp remains the same but water covers more surface area than ice, thus chilling the contents faster.

[@SlainteFromFlorida]

I didn't put ice in a cooler to retain ice. I put ice in a cooler to keep things cold. Retaining the water does that best, second only to draining water to make room for additional ice. Artic seems to get it.

[@thereplacementfordisplacement]

Results show that leaving the drain cap off is a bad idea, you allow cold air to escape if you plan to keep it cold longer than 3 days. Living out of coolers just sucks.

[@WOV49]

The people who drain the cooler are usually the people who have to carry it back to the car.

[@camorrisiii]

The only time that I would recommend letting the water drain is when meat from a wild game harvest is being stored in a cooler until it can be processed. I’ve been processing wild game meat for over 10 years, it makes a huge difference in the quality of meat if it’s been stored soaking in icy water, or packed in ice with less water retention.

[@mittenflippin]

17:22 that 6.8 degree difference in the average High temperature throughout the testing period is probably the most important part, especially when storing perishable's instead of soda. Assuming you take precautions to keep the food in the wet cooler dry, it could be the difference between your food spoiling during the week and not spoiling.

[@sarahdavidtacy5098]

I think this is a great point! ziplock everything to keep it dry and leave the water. Even easier if it’s just cans. But this experiment also tells me I could get away with draining as long as I plan to replace ice after a couple days.

[@scopescaroutdoors]

You can keep a cooler’s contents colder longer by putting a towel over the contents inside the cooler further insulating it

[@Darthwarrior]

When we were keeping fish overnight we put ice in the cooler covered it with news paper and salt

[@UnitedElectric]

River runner knowledge: only real block ice when available. I have a Clinebell ice machine for my bars so thats easy for me. Call your local shave ice stand and buy blocks. Some points: - Keep water as long as possible but KEEP IT SEPERATED from the ice! Physics is simple. Water is a much more efficient heat xfer mechanism than air. I made "stands" for my blocks out of various things. I cut down a plastic crate, turn it upside down and put the block on it. Water stays on bottom and i let the cold beverages roll around down there and put the food in baskets on top. - When you need a bev pull from the bottom. I also use fridge fans in my coolers for quicker cooling. - When the water level get high enough to touch the block, drain cold water into a bucket and pre-cool your next round of beverages before you put it in the cooler. - Keep that puppy out of the sun. - I've kept a 60 QT cooler with a single block for up to 7 Days in the desert. - Always by light-colored or white coolers. - Always look to desert rats for cooler advice. - Above is a little complex but youre welcome.

[@Aussie_aNti_h3r0]

The only thing I would have done differently was tested the temperature inside the cans.

[@maxxrelax88]

This was super interesting thanks for posting!

[@theoutdoorempire]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@UncleFjester]

*Jesus Fjukin Crist! you millennials over analyze everything!*

[@jesseperezz]

Interesting test, but the reason to have a cooler is to KEEP THE FOOD AND DRINK cold. How cold were the drinks?

[@bucc5207]

You measured the temperature only right under the lid, which is always the warmest spot in the cooler. But that's not where your food and bev is. Wish you had strapped a thermometer to a can. The cans probably stayed colder longer in the cold water. In the Not to Drain cooler, they probably stayed near 32F as long as the water had much ice in it. In the Drained cooler, the cans would begin to warm up as they lost direct contact with cubes. For the first few days it probably made no difference at all, to the cans. And as you concluded, overall it probably makes no meaningful difference.

[@RJMaker]

I believe we have the answer..... in the end you took a can from the "not to drain" cooler... Actions.... 🙂

[@mp-xt2rg]

Interesting. Keep the water gives you more mass to absorb energy theoretically giving you longer run time. But the other issue is convection. The water will circulate in a loop pumping heat into the ice. Air is much worse at transferring heat and wouldn't transfer heat from the cooler walls into the ice as quickly.

[@Jimmyzapata193]

I did this same experiment, drain water over night: hot drinks Don’t drain over night: water in cooler but drinks still cold 🤷‍♂️

[@maxsinventions8913]

I don't know how you didn't want to grab a cold Coca-Cola out of those that whole time. I would be so tempted

[@edrodrigues3333]

One thing I’ve learned when packing a cooler, I put a block of ice in first, load the drinks, and put cubed ice on top of that When the cubed ice melts, the block ice keeps the water cold, which keeps your drinks cold.

[@gewglesux]

That's the way i do it also.

[@Kholdstare0503]

I love this kewler video

[@cyrusgladstone788]

So which one kept the coke colder? I don’t care if I have ice longer or the air temp is higher I care is the food or drink cooler. I think you need to make a video where instead of the temp and ice retention as the focus you sample the drinks temperature, meat, cheese and a vegetable to see how well it lasts. Also add a third test where you don’t leave a slow drip but rather you drain the water at the end of each day then cap it back up.

[@johntexan4165]

Here's the problem with your test. In real life, you have people constantly opening the cooler which is why you want the water as an insulator. If you drain the water, every time someone opens the lid, you are immediately changing the air temperature in the chest to whatever the air temperature is outside the cooler. When you close the lid, it's going to have to cool the air again and will melt more ice than a cooler with water in it. So unless you're traveling and the cooler will stay closed... leave the water in. Also, you didn't even add salt which is another cooler trick and why you would leave the water in.

[@IceDragon327]

Ask any chef : 40F to 140F for 4hrs - your food ( meat, milk etc) was spoiled by that standard by day 4 - any food stored for 4 hrs between 40F and 140F should be thrown out ( commercially) , personally , you could probably double that time but only if cooking well - because bacteria grows exponentially

[@Starscreamious]

Who's putting ice in a cooler to keep their ice iced? I'm doing it to keep my perishables from perishing.

[@williamjames9546]

Would be another test but coolers like Yeti etc. Have the gasket that if you drain it with the lid closed it can/will vacuum lock the lid. I wounder if allowing just a bit out to create the seal if it would help keep it cooler longer, at least untill more air gets it.

[@DanteYewToob]

Before watching, my hypothesis is that the water has a lot of thermal inertia so it might not stay as cold as ice but it will remain cold for longer than just air, as well as giving surface area contact to keep the items cold. Although this could work against the cooler depending on the quality by providing a lot of surface area with the walls to let heat in. The water has a ton of mass to slow the fluctuating temperatures and keep it more even, but it might not last as long. You’ll have evenly cooled items for a shorter time. Without water you’ll have a few cold items and a few cool-ish items depending on what’s touching the ice. That’s my hypothesis. Pick whichever fits your needs better… if you have foods susceptible to fluctuations like meats, cheeses… etc. use the water. If not, drain it.

[@mythmurzin]

the reason why draining was resulting in higher temperature is because the open hole in the cooler is allowing some kind of air transfer from the wind blowing, cycling the air inside the cooler. if you had done this inside a place where there was no wind, such as inside a garage, you might have different results.

[@treborretsnom6186]

But, the air temperature in the open cooler is warmer than the water in the unopened cooler.

[@bbqmasterdham33]

I like the content but this definitely shouldn’t have been a 20+ minute video

[@watchyourtimeco1]

I've always left the water in. Not for ice retention though. I keep the ice in because, even after the ice is gone, the same amount of mass exists as water. While water is a far more efficient means of transferring heat than air, it's also a far more efficient insulator, meaning even if my ice is gone, my items inside will remain "cold" far longer than draining the ice. The ice may melt quicker in the water, but your items will still be cold for many more hours

[@irishn8]

The same reason ice melts faster in water is the same reason you want your drinks in ice water.

[@him89]

More thermal mass than air, so it takes longer for energy to transfer into the ice water than for it to transfer to air?

[@irishn8]

@@him89 for me, its more about the ability to keep a can of beer cool. The can gets colder, faster.. maybe colder period.. because of the density of ice-water. When water is your cooling medium between ice and your drink, air is just an insulator. If there is no medium. Its just ice and air, when you open the lid, the cold air can come right out with the turbulence of opening the lid and grabbing a drink.

[@lovdlyon]

The best part was when you drank that 7 day deliciously cold coke at the end!! So satisfying 😂

[@TheAutoexecbat]

I drain my cooler only if I'm moving it or adding ice. No reason to haul cold water back home

[@hangingshoe57]

If you ever run this again, I'd be interested to see the difference if you just open the spout to drain the water once a day rather than letting warm air in through the spout for the duration of the test.

[@john4kc]

The cokes would be more consistently cold in the cooler full of water at the end. ALL of those drinks would be 32 degrees. The other cooler without water would have warm cokes in it even though there is a clump of ice. Your temperature reading is at the top of the open space on both, but the drink temps I promise you are colder overall in the water.

[@wes326]

I wish stores would sell frozen one gallon water jugs. No ice mess and cool water to drink.

[@tolson57]

As Paul Harrell says, "Not enough difference to make a difference". @paulharrell

[@jefferyshall]

I wonder if it would make a difference if there was a membrane that would let the water out but not let air in on the drain. So no warm air from outside could seep in through the drain.

[@steve390gold]

You need to calculate time spent above and below 40*F for both coolers and then youll see a MASSIVE difference. Keep the water. After all the goal of a cooler is to keep it cold. Who cares about ice retention if it doesnt stay cold? (

[@JohnClark1984]

It’s all about thermal mass, the water from ice melt is still near freezing so when you ditch it you lose all that cold

[@thomasgarrison3949]

Thanks for the video. I drain the cooler on my motorcycle trailer, when in motion. I don't want the water sloshing back & forth, causing me to loose control of my New Trike! In my Jeep I Don't drain my cooler, I don't want wet floors.

[@xiaoka]

Put some baffles in your cooler to reduce slosh.

[@fraliexb]

10:00 or the fact you can die of hyperthermia in ice water versus just being in cold weather.