Exploring Daemons of the Ruinstorm Rules

[@TheOuterCircle]

As a few people have asked about the unwieldy special rule so far: Unwieldy: A model attacking with this weapon Piles-in and fights at Initiative step 1, unless it has the Dreadnought Unit Type or Monstrous sub-type. (Warhammer: The Horus Heresy - Age of Darkness Rulebook p249)

[@noodleduk]

sick thanks man!

[@bobskywalker2707]

Finally! An army the Thousand Sons can beat!

[@Coproquim]

As its the 30k era, and imperial weaponry isnt blessed as a matter of course, shouldn't shooting weapons be way less effective against Daemons than they are? Older 40k rulesets acknowledged that melee weapons worked better, and so does pretty much every other piece of literature on the subject

[@angelofmalice0]

The lore seems to suggest the more archaic the weapon the more effective it is against daemons. Close combat weapons are more effective than ranged weapons. A flint axe is more effective than a steel axe, which is more effective than a power axe. Bolters work better than plasma guns or volkites.

[@lloydmitchellnineone]

I'm sure I remember seeing something saying that the delay in the release was they struggled to balance the demons list. Maybe originally shooting was rubbish against them and it made them too strong so they scrapped it? Who knows

[@Filmmaster91]

@@angelofmalice0so if one were to fling one’s shit at a daemon chimpanzee style, this would be the equivalent of a Tau railgun to the daemon, being the most primitive projectile imaginable? Imagine THAT being written about in an exemplary battle…

[@Edithae]

​@Filmmaster91 When a Jokaero gets back to basics...

[@comradedyatlov199]

Just listened to Know NO Fear where this is mentioned

[@sagacity1071]

Honestly don't think they made much effort with it... the Eldar book the Panoptica guys made has much more love put into it. This demon book is something any of us could have thrown together on a Friday afternoon.

[@sonicwingnut]

Yeah then weirdly whenever Panoptica drop something a load of Heresy fanboys get a bee in their bonnet about the idea of custom rules, as if GW's rules are perfect and must never be touched.

[@sleeplepeople7313]

Out of interest, does this site have more custom rules? Like Eldar or Orks etc? I don’t like 10th. I love HH. Was hoping more armies might get rules? Happy to use custom rules from fellow gamers. :)

[@sonicwingnut]

@@sleeplepeople7313 they're currently working on Aeldari lists and I believe there was talk of them doing Orks at some point but nothing on the horizon just yet. They've also done Liber Centura and Liber Ingenium which add additional units for Astartes and Mechanicum respectively.

[@sleeplepeople7313]

Thank you very much for your response. I hall follow them with great interest. Appreciate the word boss. :) @@sonicwingnut

[@Orlunu]

Someone woke up, suddenly remembered that they hadn't delivered on the Ruinstorm army list, and bashed it out by the end of the week. My guess.

[@strigoi_guhlqueen8355]

Im am just finishing my self built Ruinstorm army. They have been a lot of fun to create. Sadly they have not jet been changed or updated.

[@sleeplepeople7313]

Thanks for a great video. Very enlightening, very measured. Top content Macca. Thank you for taking the time out to do these videos. They help new players like me soooo much. :)

[@darnokx9277]

Paraphrasing here, but WHC essentially said in previous articles "this list is taking longer due to extensive playtesting". Yeah, sure...

[@michaelroberts1274]

I've just been waiting all day for this vid

[@333teapot]

"I'm not talking about winning against the competitive, Knight cenobium, dreadnought spam kind of lists" previously in this video "it's ok, but knights cenobium and dreadnoughts are going to destroy it!"

[@Blackhound61]

GW's casual, bordering on callous laziness with this one given how long it's taken is egregious

[@BittermanAndy]

Yes. Atrocious lack of effort put into this. Appalling.

[@joseffjones4575]

quickly things i thought the deamons should get, either they get deep strike as base rules set in or have options to purchase them and have a rule where enemy units must pass a Ld check to target them for shooting and charging and that. Maybe they should also have an improved +1 to armour and invun saves on turn 1 and 2 also?

[@jellydamgood]

Are you also going to triple their points costs for all those buffs?

[@joseffjones4575]

@@jellydamgood why would they need tripling in points? Most complaints are that either they're overpointed for their power/underpowered for their points. The deep strike I suggest was either built in or purchased by points, the armour save decrease after turn two so tripling points for that is a little much for some units and yes the Ld check for targeting them is strong so that could increase their points but not tripling it to the point of them once again being overpointed for their power?

[@jellydamgood]

@@joseffjones4575 calm down, I said triple to exaggerate. But that is a lot of buffs, might make them like current 40k tau, from straight garbage to fighting eldar for top spot due to overbuffs. Damn that system is such a mess ATM. Maybe keep the leadership test for reactions only? And tone down the buffs a bit? The deep strike makes sense so I think those can stay.

[@joseffjones4575]

@@jellydamgood damn it let me have my hissy fit okay! XD granted the Ld check thing is a bit strong and was a quick idea moment to represent the new horror of the deamons coming out of the warp. I haven't played 40k since the start of 8th Ed and for that reason. The deamons are a hard one to make good rules for without either going overboard or not good enough, should make sense that they're able to deep strike in some way though and hopefully what we see now isn't the finished rules although it probably is! I'm currently trying to fix and change and homebrew stuff and try them out with everything anyway with my friends.

[@jellydamgood]

@@joseffjones4575 good luck with the homebrew rules.

[@sleeplepeople7313]

What constantly amazes me is that you don’t sound scripted. So you are either one of the most natural deliverers ever, or your knowledge is so deep that you CAN just flip on the mic and just freestyle it, every single video. This is no small thing. Respect!

[@TheOuterCircle]

Very rarely are scripts written, at most, notes generally, and that's for videos like "fixing games workshop" because there are many important points to cover.

[@sleeplepeople7313]

@@TheOuterCircle to remain so coherent, on point and natural while delivering such dense wisdom is.... well, bloody amazing. Sorry to waffle. I know its tedious, but comments help videos, so I hope its not too vexing. You are a bloody treasure to the HH community. Thank you for all you do for us. :)

[@f4lenwarrior]

So the typical GW "crap it out over a weekend" attitude... How can they be so consistant with poor rules writing? i get they dont care enough to make balanced games as they rely on a steady stream of slop models to keep the lights on but better rules would retain and gain players.

[@jakubgodlewski9104]

Well, because this approach works for now. They don’t have to put in any effort, if people buy their product

[@f4lenwarrior]

Yep I know that, thats why i said "i get they dont care enough to make balanced games as they rely on a steady stream of slop models to keep the lights on" @@jakubgodlewski9104

[@the_long_chris]

I did not expect anything and I am still disappointed.

[@maximhyland5843]

They might have benefited from like 2 more layers of customisation in addition to more units. The 2 layers being something that could alter their stats or give different weapons and an overarching rights of war style that could make an army more thematic. I'd do that and make the aethiric dominions be a unit per unit thing. On a different note, banestrike bolters are surprisingly strong against them, being S5 AP4 Breaching 6 Rapid fire and all. Thanks for this analysis, you are a Godsend to the heresy community.

[@CaptainPlunk]

Some points I disagree with: Psy power will struggle to kill your Sovereign at range as you have a very high T on the first turns And most of the Psy power are just bad at range People usually run biomancy or telepathy not the other ones And in melee the librarian struggle to hit you and wound you for the same reason as you have a high WS and high T For the brute it is unfair to point out the rad Grenade as first it is a very uncommon wargear in v2 unlike the v1 Second they also have t6 on the first two. Turns And Corbax also has empyrean avatar that will negat ID to only take d3 wounds bit he has a very high T to go through and still a 4++ You should stop comparing everything with contemptors as we all know they are op as hell On turn 4 brutes still are t5, they will lose stats in t5/6 and with Chtonia it won't happen But yes this list overall is quite sad... Thanks for the review 🙂

[@johnroberts8793]

So we finally have an army that makes Tsons look good?

[@DemonAce18]

So now that we have Daemons out do you think Word Bearers improve or stay the same now? The reason why I ask is because they have the easiest time finding ways to bring daemons to their lists. Unfortunately, the downside is that by the time you could get them on the board, they are back to unmodified characteristics then they worsen. Also, I would like to ask what model lines you would think would make for a good Daemons of the Ruinstorm army besides GW. Thank you for the video and have a good week.

[@sthelios3864]

Can't say for sure, I've been rocking WBs for a while now, Ka'bandha has always been a let down unless I threw his ass to a costly death star already pinned in melee, or a super heavy lord of war which you'll absolutely murder at str 12 + sunder. Also, you do get the benefits from daemon subtype. My common go to is Esoterist(or Lorgar) and his squad of cataphractii bodyguards in a land raider. Move 6", disembark from your movement, cast Breach the Veil, summon Ka'bandha (or daemon brutes) up to 12" from you using the blast marker, move by 14" as per the Incardine Wings rule, then charge and obliterate something from t1. Imo the Daemon Brutes are truly in a very good spot now, but the best addition is the custom Ruinstorm Arch-Daemon. Get him Aetheric Conduit for Diabolism, immaterial wings and Miasma of Rage/Warp-forged Flesh for offense/durability, and you get an absolute beast running up to 14, charging at 2d6+3, Str10 T10 on the first 2 turns thanks to Dark and Terrible Fate, with 7 (or 9) attacks. Then watch him swing his S10, AP2, Brutal 3 Sunder Ap1 on 6s, shredding anything that isn't a primarch on a 3+ upon charging. Looks really nasty and next game I'm absolutely bringing this guy considering how underwhelming Ka'bandha felt (being vulnerable to duels). You're still vulnerable to duels, so consider the "in melee pinned" thing. They're more of a funky death star than anything very good you could abuse, and I'm all for it! The Sovereign looks very strong as well considering the same upgrades, but d3 wounds on instant death on your warlord is kinda shady. Aside from Ka'bandha, I'd say Samus and Blightguy are a real treat! But yeah, new brutes loadout looking real spicy on top on whatever big daemon you want to bring home. Can't wait to try them for one! EDIT : Oh, also, HoW are kinda memes, but d3+4 using Dark and Terrible Fate (and immaterial wings) auto hit init 10 strength 10 ap - is wonky, I love it, won't do much but when it does...

[@user-zh8dr1qt1s]

@@sthelios3864is Kabandah not great then?

[@sthelios3864]

​@@user-zh8dr1qt1s I find him underwhelming. He "struggles" to kill normal terminators because he does not benefit from any infantry-killing rule (brutal, reaping blow), and sure you're gonna benefit from rampage, hit on 2s (unless elite terminators), wound on 2s, but half of those hits are gonna get tanked by the invu. He'll get his ass kicked by most melee primarchs, especially those with Brutal (looking at you Ferrus), ESPECIALLY if there's a retinue and your opponent calls a duel. The most succeess I ever had was crashing a Stormbird. in that regard, butchering heavily armored vehicles, at strength 12 and sunder, he will do wonders. But... you know, it's not exactly why we run a big khornate demon, usually. Scythe of hate at AP 0 are beyond useless.

[@user-zh8dr1qt1s]

@@sthelios3864 so he loses to the other priamrchs despite being alot more expensive?

[@sthelios3864]

@@user-zh8dr1qt1s Depends on the primarch! He'll break Alpharius in half, but he'll struggle against Dorn and his likes. Especially cuz Gargantuan Unit cannot enter any squad, while primarchs can. While you focus fire on the primarch or even duel it, he'll answer blow for blow AND his squad is going to tear you a new one. Very underwhelming for his price, yes! WS8 Str12 is a staple but most primarchs destined to melee will scam a win against him.

[@CoiledMoons]

I agree with most of your points. I think the list that comes out the other side will feel overpowered to most folks in a casual setting (you're basicaly running 6 dreads even if they are overpriced). The rest of the list is garbage. I think if they did something as simple as giving the Lesser Daemons the old "rending 6+" (or even Immaterial Blades(2)), you would have a reason to run something other than monstrous creatures. They *are* functionally fearless with the Encroaching Ruin Aetheric Dominion.

[@TimucinFidan-nd5zu]

I absolutely hate this with the amount of options it has removed and the behemoth being the same points as a sovereign despite being wore in every way is a joke However the harbinger is legit very powerful primarily because of its ability to allow your dudes to deepstrike near it and still move as if was coming in from a board edge and still charge. Advance that guy 13 inches then drop the marker down 3 then move out from it with whatever you got in reserves really shoots ya dudes up the board. And I'd even argue heedless slaughter is actually pretty decent to 1+ charge when your guys tend to have such high move stats means they are likely getting 2+ atleast for a lot of charges.

[@BittermanAndy]

Daemon as a unit type being problematic (Daemons aren't infantry, can't also be Cavalry, etc.) was obvious from the moment the main rulebook was released. Unbelievable that they didn't anticipate the consequences of that stupid choice. Daemon should be a subtype, not a type!

[@Balevolt]

There isn't even a foot lord that isn't a monster that's an Independent Character

[@greggriffin4462]

Now we just need them to utterly butcher black shields and shattered legions and we've got the full dumpster fire set.

[@ero9841]

Had first test game for demons. It's feels off but a the same time there are some Interesting things that can be done with it. Beast with flamers was oddly useful.

[@Sommeill]

Why even bother with a new edition if this is what we get?

[@jellydamgood]

How is it possible for force weapons to be all over the place? You get three librarians at most and what kinda meta chasing clown do you have to be to have that? Or did everyone suddenly start playing thousand sons? They already sound horrid lol, no need to add random edge case maluses to them.

[@jacobwilbers9852]

If they didint include all the bad stuff you should never use in each book they would be half the size.

[@Hermit_hobby]

Poor Sanguinius has no chance against Ka'band'ha 😂

[@noodleduk]

You mentioned that monstrous units strike at initiative with Unwieldy weapons, where in the rules is this stated, I can't seem to find it?

[@TheOuterCircle]

See pinned comment.

[@Vaw.]

I’ve been waiting for world eaters why you gotta tease me😂

[@nathanfee9644]

I don't see anything under the Monstrous sub type that ignores initiative? So Sovereign with Greatblade would be I1. Which makes the +1 initiative step aetheric dominion a little more attractive.

[@CoiledMoons]

It's in the unwieldy rule itself.

[@randomusername513]

Unwieldy: A model attacking with this weapon Piles-in and fights at Initiative step 1, unless it has the Dreadnought Unit Type or Monstrous sub-type. (Warhammer: The Horus Heresy - Age of Darkness Rulebook p249) GW back at it with putting things in the most inconvenient places

[@nathanfee9644]

Thanks!@@randomusername513

[@nathanfee9644]

Thanks! @@CoiledMoons

[@nicsnavely1277]

I can't find where it says they come in with higher S and T and progressively get weaker as the turns go by like in 1.0. Looks like they dropped that too?

[@HuggieMyPampers]

It’s in the core rules. Daemon sub-type.

[@nicsnavely1277]

@@HuggieMyPampers of course it couldn't be included in the 2.0 PDF, no that would be much too hard lol. thanks

[@Darkfist007]

I know it was in last edition, but am I blind. I'm not seeing the boost to toughness and strength in the first turns for the new ruinstorm. I miss my shrikes... I had 2 of them...

[@Darkfist007]

derp demon rule. I forgot.

[@tomgardner2253]

They didn't take a year to work on this. Seems rushed, no effort. You can see the person who wrote the Ka'Bhanda rules did not write the rest of these rules

[@marcmiddleton2277]

Why is everyone so afraid of Deamons 😂

[@Cynidecia]

Orks in heresy yet?

[@meatbasedveteran]

what a boring book, lesser daemons have pretty much zero customisation

[@_the_eversor_lad_]

To be honest this entire 2.0 is a significant downgrade to first edition. We're just better off sticking to 1.0