Pocket Aces On A Double-Paired Board | SplitSuit

[@kylehilfiker917]

If you are going to value bet on this board on the turn, you MUST call the river when you have 80% plus of your stack committed. Hero folding in general is just a huuuuuuuge leak

[@VilleMetsola]

"I'm ahead of AK, LOL" LOL

[@Xtraderr]

why bet the turn if your gonna fold the river to a donk bet? If you were worried about being beat, you should have shut down after the turn

[@MakinSomeNoise]

I’m probably never folding when I have AA and I only have 20BB left in a pot this sized

[@Joel-js2gk]

tbh even with A high against certain opponents I consider heroing it off in this spot, getting such a delicious price and let's be honest, nobody likes having 32BB left on the table. AA is a snap-call imo

[@__hjg__2123]

Never (as in, NEVER) folding to a $55 river bet in that spot........

[@lozgod]

My strategy there is get most of my stack in as the aggressor and then fold to a 1/5 pot donk bet. If I do it enough I can go broke and give up on poker.

[@philhellmuth2771]

I strongly disagree with betting on the turn. you approach game theory desaster and it is easier to get value on the river. if he has worse pocket pairs he will either bet or check call on the river. if he has a full house he probably will bet on the river too and we can call. we avoid getting check raised on the turn and also we avoid a weird donk on the river

[@peinspike]

Game theory isn’t really necessary when you’re playing on a weak table where an exploitative strategy would be much more profitable

[@splitsuit]

Which is more valuable? 1. Getting max value from 66-JJ 2. Getting 1 street of value from 66-JJ Checking the turn because it's easy and keeps the pot small is not a complete rationale for checking. I'm more focused on maxing value than trying to avoid tough spots and I have to be OK losing some pots from time to time.

[@philhellmuth2771]

ypu are right.. but that is not what i meant... with game theory disaster i meant u are folding out a lot of worse hands and get called by all better hands... of course here in this spot u can get called by worse but it puts u in a though spot if they raise or donk the river

[@splitsuit]

What worse hands though? He x/called the flop NOT closing action on a bone dry texture - it's not like there are tons of 98, KT, 76 combos laying around...his range is heavily pinned and I'm in full attack mode...

[@philhellmuth2771]

u have a point there but he might find a fold with some of his worse pocket pairs...i would definitly fold 8s and then maybe fold 9s or 10s on the river depending what u think about your opponent. and i wonder james, would u go bet bet shove with aces here?

[@lapnguyen2898]

With Hero holding AhAd, it is possible that villain called pre-flop with Ac5c for only $15 more, which would be a very common call at $1/$3 NL game. They love to play Ax suited.

[@odin1313]

or QJ, Q10, Q9s, Q8s, QK, QA, 45s, 65s, 75s, 85s, 55, 53s, 52s...

[@pokergeniusordonkey6517]

I fully agree with James about a much larger pre-flop raise. (I thought $23 minimum, saying to everyone, if you wanna play it will cost you at least $20 more.) Hero might have a good hand, but hero might also be trying to steal all the limps. Someone else now has the option to make the mistake of thinking that hero is messing around. In this case, if seat 1 has KK, I feel the bigger raise might be more likely to induce a raise from the KK. My other observation is seat 4, with only 90 in his stack, I would just want to get as much money as possible against that stack, so there is almost nothing to think about post flop against seat 4.

[@Xtraderr]

LMAO on that fold

[@Joel-js2gk]

sometimes folds on this channel make me cringe

[@lozgod]

Joel I think that’s who mostly sends in videos. Should change the name from The Poker Bank to Nits Anonymous.

[@Godvernment]

The SB has a strong range PF and also has a strong range ATF check calling OOP with another player to act. I’m betting 1/3 pot on the flop to dilute the callers range giving him less Q’s. There’s no draws on that flop. A small bet gets calls from a much wider range and also induces more bluffs

[@WhoAreYe]

I'm grateful for you, James.

[@johnthepalm]

The main mistake here isn't an individual one, it's a combination error: failing to execute a plan (I know you say that a lot in other videos). If you bet the worst possible turn (because you believe you can get more value long term from worse) then you have to call river (because the plan was thin value from this player). You can only fold river to a shove if you check behind on the turn. If you put yourself in the shoes of certain types of villains (and know how they think) when he has say JJ, he thinks you're going to check back a lot of rivers (because you have little leverage left to bluff with the current SPR), so he may now want to get value (because he's already decided he's pot committed). And imagine how exploitable you are if you are folding AA getting 6-1? This has broader implications than this one hand.

[@unclesteven21]

No way, I am checking that turn every time and then evaluating on the river. He checks then I bet for value but if he bets big I probably fold.

[@xunli6838]

In this hand, I believe checking the turn is a more profitable play than betting. Qd is a pretty bad card and make a ton of Qx combos crash our hand. In this case, had the hero checked back, he could comfortably call most of the villain’s bet at the river, or bet for value at the river if the villain checks. Note that there are many worse hands from which we can get two streets of value.

[@joshwilliamson1814]

I noticed you're often critical of smaller bet sizing's - and I agree. However, my problem is that I typically play $2/$5 NL in Colorado. Colorado has a limited stakes rule, allowing only a $100 bet on any given action. So, with larger PF sizes a problem is created. For example, if I have 3 limpers (extremely common) and raise to say $40-$50 PF with AA like above, if I get two callers (again...equally common), I can only bet $100 in a $150 pot. As the pot progresses, the problem gets worse. Now, potentially, we could try for a C/R if OOP, but most players don't size correctly anyway and will try to bet $40 in $150, allowing me to go to $140...which still doesn't do the trick. The turn is always $100 into $300+, maybe if an ideal C/R is successful, I can get $200 into $400 - but you see the problem I'm sure. So, in short, the limited gaming rules have a significant impact on pot geometry - as a result I routinely choose a much lower size (like $15-$20 (3x-4x) in this spot) than you recommend in most of your videos - would you have any comments/advice on that topic? - Josh

[@splitsuit]

I really dislike games that use that kind of structure lol But why are you trading PF value (by going smaller) for postflop pressure (for allowing flop and maybe turn bets to be closer to pot sizes)?

[@joshwilliamson1814]

Yeah...I mean that's the idea. And I don't now if it's correct or not - but what I do know is that I really, really hate betting $100 into $300+ pots. It's routine a situation, where the villain will call with a6o, smack a 6 otf....call 2 or 3 $100 streets and win a $600-$700 pot when his ace or 6 hits river and cracks your JJ - happens all the time, and the pot geometry problem makes it impossible to prevent. It also takes all bluffs out of my range and has the distinct feel of a Bingo game (I do try to avoid these games). If I can keep things more under control, say I make it $20 in the above scenario....then the pot is around $60-$80, and I can make a reasonably sized C-bet...even an over bet is in the arsenal when it otherwise wouldn't be. But....is that costing me value like above? I know these games suck, and I do avoid them by playing lots of tourney's - however, these games are the only cash option available in Colorado casinos. There are $1/$2 to $100 games where this pot geometry problem is a little easier to deal with, but those games have there own issues. In short, I know your advice is probably to just avoid these games but I wanted to see what your thoughts were with some unique variables introduced to the equation :) - Josh

[@splitsuit]

If you can't avoid the structure, I go the route of max pressure preflop and I don't think it's that close =)

[@justinwhite2725]

I had him on pockets 6 through J. The only other play that makes sense after the second queen is possibly ace high which tends to be solid on 2 pair boards, and given that hero has 2 of the aces that doesn't seem likely. Pocket kinds is a little surprising here, throigh.

[@truthsmiles]

First time I've ever watched a hand and guessed the villain's hand exactly. Wasn't until the river bet, but KK was the only hand that made sense to me given the action.

[@fundiver198]

I dont think, it makes sense to flat KK preflop. It should be a 100% automatic 4-bet, and especially against someone, who did not even start with 100BB.

[@tylermokarry9731]

I like checking turn here instead of betting , I think the range you are targeting (66-jj) would likely not pay off 3 streets so going for 2 streets of value and making your opponent think they are good on turn is worth it to me . And if they have a hand like qx or 5x you can lessen the damage , this is a wa/wb spot on the turn so I like checking and increasing chances of getting call on river if checked to

[@StuartFerguson55]

Given a range of... AQ(4)/KQ(8)/QJ(8)/QT(8)/Q9s(2)/Q8s(2)/45s(2)/56s(2)/A5s(1)/55(1) I'm counting 38 combos of either 5x or Qx and 36 combos of 66-JJ. Do we really want to be betting the turn against this range?

[@nintendokings]

I really don’t like the turn bet. How are you getting more value out of 66-JJ? They’ll never call turn AND river. Much better checking turn and betting river if checked to you

[@splitsuit]

They are getting like 5:1 on the river if they call the turn - why do you suspect they don't call it off there too?

[@nintendokings]

Good point. I suppose it's a case then whether you're ahead of his range on the turn and want to stack it off or not. Throwing it in Equilab, it seems AA has a (just over) 60% lead against a range of 55-JJ, AQ, KQ, A5s, QJs, QTs (on the turn ofc). So...yes! We do want to stack it off at this stage. However: does 66-JJ really continue on the turn? By betting on the turn, you're giving all the Qs and 5s max value by getting it in, while you're more than likely folding out most hands you beat. So even though you're ahead of his range, there's still not much value in betting here I don't think.

[@fundiver198]

Also because of the stack sizes of seat 4 and Hero and his position he should not be in there with a particularly wide range. He was not getting the right implied odds to setmine against Hero, but then again he was also not getting the right implied odds to call with 54s, 65s, A5s, so it kind of work both ways. I think, the range assumption is someone optimistic. If he is good, maybe he stack off JJ but dont even have 66 in his range, and if he is bad, he can have many more QX and 5X than those, you listed. But he probably still dont stack off A high, which is the next pip down.

[@chrisbell3135]

What makes you like the turn bet exactly? When you consider the fact that it leaves you getting 6:1 on a river call and you aren't loving it, that means you messed up somewhere along the way. On the turn SPR is 1:1 why not just check back then if he checks river you can ship it and put him in a tough spot, and if he donks river just use your read to decide. Bet sizing was atrocious throughout IMO. Pre - too small. Flop - too big. Turn - no need.

[@splitsuit]

Hey Chris. 2 things: 1. We don't recalculate SPR on the turn, it's a flop metric only 2. I like the turn bet for the reasons I laid out in the video =) Essentially, I'm making assumptions on the density of Qx/5x hands in the range and the elasticity of the 66-JJ part of his range that I'm targetting.

[@fundiver198]

The awkward river situation is a stack size issue and bet sizing issue more than a line issue. If Hero started with a full stack and/or bet smaller on the flop, this problem go away. Also it was a super dry flop, so even disregarding the pot geometry issue, a smaller bet would have been better. A lot of hands have missed this flop completely, and by betting large, you allow your opponent to simply fold most of them. Whereas if you bet smaller, you put him a tough spot with 22-44, A high, K high etc., regardless if you are betting for value or as a bluff.

[@curtisking6271]

I like a smaller size on the flop. Very dry board & I wanna be getting a better price on my bluffs.

[@ekw555]

while the turn bet sizing is "good" for the reasons James states, I have a problem with it because it leaves hero with $64 stack and a $274 pot when the river comes. with less than a 1/4 pot bet left, I would think hero has pretty much "no choice" on any river. but then hero folds to a bet even smaller than his stack . . . I just don't know how you put over half of your remaining stack on the turn and fold the river.

[@kemoblue4u]

Can you do videos for tournament strategy?

[@michelcharbonnier7603]

Now I have a bet-sizing issue with you, Split-Suit. You rightfully point out the importance of bet-sizing all the time, but on the turn, you don't. Betting 70 (especially with less than than very bet-size behind) is not correct. This is an extreme hot/cold scenario, where either villain has 2 outs, or hero does. Considering how static this board is, there is no need to bet any bigger than ~1/4 of the pot. Betting 30-35 is much better, because you put all his JJ-66 in a mandatory call spot. You can still move in for a half-potter on the river.

[@fundiver198]

And/or bet smaller on the flop, which was already as dry as the Sahara desert.

[@splitsuit]

I didn't point it out because I assume inelasticity levels are nearly the same for 1/4 and 1/2 pot on the turn =) Of course, we can disagree on that - but that's why I didn't mention it.

[@noex100]

The turn bet in general is terrible. We should be checking back our entire range on that turn card. A queen: check. A 5: check. Any pair, ace high, etc: check. A turn bet accomplishes nothing.

[@junito1008]

I don’t know who’s worst...seat 1 for betting $55 or Hero for no calling !? 🤔

[@Roman-qx8id]

is there any reason to bet more than $55 as long as effective stack is $54?? Also it is live game so the guy at seat 1 could miscounted hero's stack so he bet $55 to be sure he gets everything from hero.

[@odin1313]

If you bet the turn you should call the river. But I don't think you should bet the turn unless you know for a fact that the vilain is a total fish and/or that he has very good reasons to think that you are bluffing. It has to do with your table image. I usually try to keep a tight image, so it wouldnt make any sens for me to bet the turn there.

[@mariodiaz3976]

Does seat 1 have any 5 in his range? he called with many people behind a 6 bet.

[@pokergeniusordonkey6517]

Probably not. This is another good reason to raise even more pre-flop to almost completely rule out any fives.

[@Its__Good]

I'd be interested to see you reviewing this from the POV of the villain. Calling the flop raise with Ks makes sense. Does calling the flop bet make sense? I would have thought that fold or shove makes more sense given the SPR.

[@splitsuit]

I think his line is fine - but I'd rather he check river and allow for maximum bluffing mistakes from button...

[@fundiver198]

I think, KK is a mandatory 3-bet preflop. And if he 3-bet, Hero would probably have 4-bet jammed, and he would have called and gotten the bad news. If Hero also got tricky-trappy and just called preflop, all the money would have gone in on the flop.

[@Its__Good]

James (SplitSuit) You're assuming that villain is acting on the basis that he thinks he's ahead?

[@splitsuit]

Yes - for any of a variety of reasons =)

[@fundiver198]

He is certainly not turning his hand into a bluff giving Hero 6:1 on the river. So this was an accidental bluff. His rational must have been, that Hero had a wider calling range than betting range if checked to again. Which is probably true, because while Hero might take this line with 66-JJ and check back the river a lot of the time, does he really have any bluffs, when he left himself only 1/4 pot sized bet left for the river? So by making the final push himself, Villain dont lose much if any value from bluffs, and he probably get more value from 66-JJ. I am not really sure though, why he did not check-raise the turn and put Hero all in there.

[@davidabel3630]

1. Definitely check turn 2. Terribly played stack-to-pot ratio

[@MJ-iq9hv]

guys where do i send in my hand!? i just saw it but now i can't find it ))): i have a reallllly good one.

[@GZ-uu8it]

Watching that fold hurt my soul.

[@liorrubin8456]

I dont like the bet on the turn. Lets say he calls with 66-jj, do you bet again if he checks the river? Would he call with those hands 3 streets? Not likely imo. Also he could very well be trapping you with a Q or a 5. I think the better line is check the turn and bet if he checks the river which he probably will with 66-jj. That way youre getting the same 2 streets as with betting the turn and you dont become as trappable. Now i assume not many players will be so trappy necessarily, but the main point is that youre getting the same value (2 streets). Edit: also i forgot to mention that if you check the turn you can see what they do on the river. If they bet a reg amount like half pot you can fold pretty profitably, i doubt they are good enough to float a hand knowing this board doesnt hit much, and if they do it also thing you can pick up earlier on and call in these marginal spots.

[@MJ-iq9hv]

why do you like a large sizing on flop?

[@ponchitoseniorito1828]

Why do you love small sizing?

[@yuglerme]

Hero definitely playing with scared money lmao

[@michelcharbonnier7603]

Not so sure. He played suboptimal, but his turn bet is not somebody with scred money does. A lot of weak players (in fact, almost all of them) would have just checked back that specific turn card.

[@lapnguyen2898]

I would rather lose the rest of my stack and make the call and re-buy if I have the money, but no way would I fold that hand on the river, especially betting that turn leaving myself with less than what I bet on the turn.

[@coreyscrivens2324]

Split Suit a few Casino's out were I stay are 1-3 and max buy in is 100$

[@splitsuit]

If the stack size is a game limitation - I totally understand. But I have to assume that's not the case if the write-up doesn't mention it =)

[@everythingallin4905]

Corey Scrivens I know a place that has 1-3 and many straddle 100. Saw some live 350's the other night from a drunk straddler on the 2/5. Usually 300 - 800 bb deep average stack.

[@brandonbateman2504]

Aren't there SPR reasons to not raise too high preflop?

[@michelcharbonnier7603]

With AA? Not really. AK or TT would be different, but with AA, the smaller the SPR, the better, pretty much.

[@junito1008]

Bad played all the way through !!

[@75minPodcast]

Fold, wow 😮

[@Blehkid]

Hero was WAY to scared here. Especially with your stack so small now. All in was the only move at the end

[@pokerchannel6991]

2018: just because someone takes a line you may not take, does not mean that they wouldn't take that weird line.. spli suit 2018. Cool

[@JustinOhio]

Never folding 6 to 1 in that situation.

[@brucejsanchez]

You forget to add is this player not playing well and will miss play hands. Do they think I’m bluffing.

[@dimitrismaster]

BTW guys there is an old poker joke i remembered. A guy returns home from a poker session. -Hey Dad, if you had quad Aces wouldn't you bet our house? -Ofc son, for sure I would. -I think we should start packing...

[@odin1313]

I dont get it

[@partyboycs6086]

LOL that fold omggg that's just bad

[@TheLastFraudster]

Put all his chips in and folded for his last 55? That's was awful.

[@slobodanreka1088]

That hurt to watch.

[@mikewilliams3509]

Turn bet is terrible

[@King0fGuns]

Wtf this man folded?? Lmaooo

[@coolmonkey5269]

lol he bet too big $40 on flop if he had bet $20 on flop he wud hv folded

[@cednissaart6491]

As said, horrible fold.

[@noex100]

Really poorly-played. Why would you ever bet the turn? If you CHECK back the turn, you can either induce a bluff or get a weaker hand (like KK or JJ) to value bet. The turn bet is clearly the problem.

[@ponchitoseniorito1828]

If you check the turn, you will have a problem, you dont know, he can bluff or not, if he will bet on the river small we can call because we get good price and we can say that he can do it with hands like 66-jj but we dont know that he can do it or not.

[@mightybatillo]

Fiiiirst omg

[@turnpropoker]

I have been watching ur vids for years. Now 1 of the 2 things happened...or I got better and find ur last advices/breakdowns extremely off or you are not studying enough to see how poker is played these days. Pre correct I would go up to 25. Flop 1/3 to 1/2 pot would be standard. Turn 100%!!!!!! Check!!!! The worst advice ever is to bet here!!! As you say u bet for value...I see definately zero combos of hands calling you here that u are ahead! Absolutely no pocket pair is calling you here. Maybe some crazy Ahigh 10% of the time ....but I doubt in a live environment. U always have to think how you would play ur range here. And on tue turn u have no range advantage and yiur hand specifically is now a bluff catcher and you should play it for what it is :)

[@peinspike]

Vasileios Vasileiadis I do agree about betting about 1/2 pot since it’s hard to connect on that board but considering the stakes I think betting with aces could actually be profitable. Ace highs and 6+ are probably calling (considering the villain called with kings) and like he said because of card removal effects his hands are weighed heavier for pocket pairs.

[@turnpropoker]

Matheus Rocha so u r saying that betting Turn is correct?

[@dimitrismaster]

Well it depends.If the table is full of recreational players i will bet bet bet.If there are aggro tards i will check the turn to induce a bet from someone who would fold to turn pressure.on the river there are quite some ace highs that will look at me from some of the worse regs,especially if i have a lag image.But i will never fold to a river jam when i have 20 bbs more and pot commited.Perhaps you are playing against tight opponnents?

[@splitsuit]

If you make the assumption that zero second-best combos continue on the turn, then you are 100% correct - betting makes no sense. That said, I laid out my assumptions and in a 1/3 live game I 100% assume second-best combos are continuing for half-pot bets. Please be very clear if you are disagreeing on the assumptions or the logic - since that guides the whole conversation =)

[@turnpropoker]

James (SplitSuit) making assumptions is against logic to start with. We shouldnt assume about villain but play our range in the most ev possible way. Having good information about the way that villain plays can make us deviate a bit from our normal play but not too much that we play based on assumption and not our range. On the turn we should check all of our range. Then we can decide to call a bet on the river or raise. But in the turn we should be checking our while range. AA are a bluff catcher at this point. And when we r ahead very unlikely they call 3str. So I disagree making assumptions. =) Based on your assumptions I still check my while range as that is the correct play longterm IMO.