How to Make a Codex (That doesn't SUCK!)

[@thepoorhammerpodcast]

REMINDER WE HAVE A Q&A EPISODE COMING UP! When you finish any KZbin pleasantries you deem us worthy of please go submit your questions on our community post: kzbin.infoUgkx_S_nhAfOLqD0elh03H48IFfLfwr6jO4c Also, if you would be so kind, check that you're subbed if you like us. We're like 400ish subs away from the 100K mark and I need some positivity in my week. (Also also, I'm trying to clean up any basement dwellers in the comments trying to derail the topic of the video with their shit-takes on the game's lore. Sorry if you see any, it's a bad week to be moderating 40K comments sections, let me tell you.)

[@TheShyOnion]

I think tau got a bit of raw deal on detachment rules: they basically followed all of your rules but then condensed it into 4

[@AfunnynameWEE]

Thank you for your cleaning service. Definitely appreciated.

[@Akimbo411]

Every chaos god specific codex should have a detachment for bringing demons, one for bringing chaos knights and one centered around their Demon primarch. There’s 3, GW. On the house.

[@TheCrimsonArchivist]

Hey would you guys be willing consider being playtesters for a tabletop wargame? You guys have great ideas and seem to have a good idea on how a game should be

[@kamikuru4014]

Thank you! Because I love the addition to the lore of female custodes. Been playing them since they came out and always had female kitbashes and now with the new lore my female army is canon

[@TheGrayAdder]

Definitely not the first person to say this, but it’s pretty telling that a lot of responses to codex releases isn’t “oh cool my codex is out soon” but rather “oh god, please let my codex not suck”

[@Bomfunker91]

I've recently begun dipping my toes into Tau after eyeing them for several years, and I'm feeling a mix of excitement and deep, deep concern.

[@rogerstewart5525]

It can't be great for sales

[@collegeoffoliage6776]

Oh Christ I'm going to have to pay 60$ for a paper weight so that I can get a code to access the up-to-date rules.

[@Axquirix]

​@@collegeoffoliage6776 Or just don’t. You can play index until 11th probably.

[@darnokx9277]

It IS weird, and kinda a first. I can not remember this happening in 40K before, and I was around in late 2nd edition and ever since.

[@cpom5075]

You know brad is on a whole other level of being really pissed off when he starts calculating words per dollars.

[@thepoorhammerpodcast]

When I was rage-calculating it before the episode Eric's exact words were "Jesus Christ, you're seriously doing this?"

[@cpom5075]

​@@thepoorhammerpodcast It it makes you feel any better, i have never heard those words in that exact sequence before, genuinely suprised by the levels of (justified) pettiness you have shown in this episode and im not even 20 minutes in. Edit: I just got a idea for a new episode, find the largest plastic kit of each faction and calculate its points/dollars per gram of plastic.

[@bcw1313]

This made do that calculus on my own novel. I’m charging people 0.0125c/word. Thanks for the morning depression, Brad…😢 I have to sell 480,000 words to afford 300ish from GW

[@darrkhunter96]

​@bcw1313 ha! Our translation team, including editorial work asks less per word from a *companies*, than GW from customers. Guess I chose a wrong line of work!

[@daviddines479]

I feel like it is a way to force a useful illustration on people who want to make excuses for GW. Although Brad I only expect your rants (which i mostly love) to become worse because I dont expect GW to do 10 percent of your very good suggestions (those that are very good, im not saying everything suggestion you have is very good).

[@krkngd-wn6xj]

Poorhammer announcing they are doing a snarky negative episode is a bit like Slipknot announcing their next concert will be loud.

[@carzie9780]

I love that

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

They should only offer printed codexes as a crowning point, a bookend to an edition. This way, they could literallywrite the edition's lore into the book and make it shaped by the results of things like Oghram. They're blinded by their own thirst for money.

[@klaykid117]

It's unfortunate but GW is at the top so they can basically do whatever they want. Both with their incredibly expensive model range and they're very outdated ways that they release rules. Although I'm sure if the other compan ies managed to claw their way to the number one position, they would also be just as bad

[@ichbineinberliner1776]

Rant start : Yes please, Start with indexes online, add and real-world balance additional detachments for each army online, release new Minis add Datacards for them online, and then at the end release all Faction + Detachment Rules in one book (Print on demand). Close out the edition with one big narrative campaign. with one book with all the rules for all factions in this campaign, next Book, maybe campaign battlefields, suggested order of play. And a trilogy of novels, or trilogy of short stories in Black Library with all the story. Instead of this piecemeal approach as with Psychic Awakening and Arks of Omen. Have all Players have their Codex right from the start. Not this: Here is the final codex for this edition, next month we will start a new edition and everything in it will be obsolete. Rant end ..

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

@@ichbineinberliner1776 On the contrary, there's literally nothing stopping you from playing a previous edition. A capstone codex for a faction would include all the rules and final balance changes of the edition and would thus be a single purchase necessary. No more balance passes, just play the edition as it was at it's end. Technically codexes are only obsolete NOW because they're written 6 months out of date and don't have ANY accurate numbers in them. Hell, I wouldn't even include narrative campaign stuff like oghram in the codex save with the results of that narratively recorded in the history section, just basic crusade. Those narrative campaigns would be released during the edition as a way to maintain currency influx, rather than the staggered releases of obsolete-on-purchase codexes we have now.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

@@klaykid117 Nothing brings about a fall faster then assuming you're going to stay on the top forever.

[@dracosummoner]

I really like this idea. That way you could have the lore be impacted in some ways by the results of that edition's tournaments, similar in some respects to what Old Version of the Legend of the Five Rings card game did.

[@americanman3745]

Make the rules Digital, the physical copy should be 90% lore and 10% painting guides

[@lelandmartin3970]

yes please, hell they could still keep the codex's the way they are but sell them as an art book and the game thing would be a advertisement for the in game faction giving an example of the original interpretation they had for that edition with a link that takes people to the free online rules. you could play with the codex art books if you wanted but they would be very unbalanced because gw's original interpretations are never balanced. It could be fun though as a one off thing to do with a friend like "hey, you wanna play a game using the crappy art codex's?"

[@zerlz9078]

What this guy said!

[@williamings773]

Printed rules close to the end of the edition that have been play tested and updated would sell. I wish GW didn't run on a rapid fire edition model.

[@cadettrev762]

Votann would love it. Their codex is their only lore so they desperately need it

[@Bluecho4]

^This. People would absolutely still buy codices, if they were just fancy art books.

[@Ben-fk9ey]

I think GW having a dedicated testing team and not grabbing GW office staff during their dinner breaks would be helpful.

[@CatharsisChaser]

Or having a writing team of more than 3-5 people that all individually work on a dex Poor multi billion dollar company cant afford to hire more people from a fanbase that writes better rules in mere days 😢

[@PapaBradford]

CSM: I cannot WAIT to have to pay for all my dark pacts

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

The Dark Gods require their payments. GW. Chaos Gods are actually pretty cool dudes.

[@Vohtwomax]

As a GK player, I am soooo fucking concerned for their codex 😢

[@idc681]

I can see it being like just roll D3 to see how much mortals you take instead of leadership test THEN roll for mortals

[@theshamurai32]

​@@Vohtwomax I pray you guys at least keep your teleporting shenanigans. From the outside looking in, that seems like the most fun part of playing Grey Knights.

[@Vohtwomax]

@@theshamurai32 I would love GK to be great at 2 things: teleport shunting(it's kinda their entire schtick) and killing Daemons. I don't mind if they're terrible at everything else. I would love to see some kind of Rock-Paper-Scissors epement introduced where X faction is great at dealing with Y, but Y will be good at fighting Z, and Z can defeat X. Grey Knights>Daemons/Chaos, Chaos>humans/Astartes, Astartes>xenos, and so on and so forth.

[@ryan_the_rizza2571]

I love it whenever Berilio busts out the “I do wanna keep this all positive” 😂

[@captianbubbles4674]

I said this to a friend earlier, but ideally, editions should last 5-8 years, not the three year cycle that they currently have going. Additionally, codexes should all be out within the first year; all codexes should be written at once, with communication between everyone who is writing them. Year two should be focused on acually balancibg everything, and the rest of the editions lifespan should be about providing interesting scenarios and updating whats already there, expanding army ranges, and providing a fun game.

[@victordavila9812]

I think they don't do that in order to sell more minis for the meta chasers that change armies throughout the editions

[@heterosexualtraplord7861]

May be a bit much, I would say 5 years with that plan is better, because you have a whole like, 3-6 years when the game doesn't have new codices, and can maybe get stale because of it. I think 2-3 years after everything released is much more interesting, gives people enough time to spend with all the rules and not get tired of it, I know I would

[@theshamurai32]

"This is not a lets stay positive episode." Me, who's been watching the Custodes shitshow the past few days: "Good, we don't deserve positivity."

[@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong]

as a Tau player its been fucking wild to watch

[@nickhall3111]

Just watched an Auspex vid on how good you can make an elite Meganobz army. Someone nailed it in the comments: "I remember back when Custodes were more elite than Orks."

[@panKowalski597]

My man, have you seen admech? It's miserable. I play both admech and custards, and 10th is the worst edition so far...

[@tbomb69]

My local GW store owner told me about how in the beginning of 9th basically the same thing happened. The custodes player base shit itself and died once they saw the codex, then it turned out it was extremely OP and had to be nerfed several times. So i’m holding out and hoping its better than we think.

[@theshamurai32]

@tbomb69 I admire your optimism. I'm not really competitive grade and mostly play casual play with old friends, so I'm not too worried about losing a lot (plus my first and foremost is Guard, so I'm used to getting my ass kicked lol). I'm more annoyed on the principle of GW dicking over my compatriots on the competitive side.

[@DylanScottDavis]

Can't wait for my all Tzaangors attachment for the TSons. Or better yet, why not go for two of them knowing GW.

[@timunderbakke8756]

It’s going to be 3 detachments, cult of Magic, oops all tzangor, and something else bad.

[@sonarchy5158]

​@@timunderbakke8756 "Cult of Magic", "Oops all Tzangor", and "I swear Daemon Engines have been a key part of TS all along ; Magnus adores his Maulerfiend"

[@victordavila9812]

Omg after the custodes got 2 detachment with sisters of silence I can already see it coming one is going to be tzaangors pluss Thousand sons and the other tzaangors by themselves

[@ecaterinaducaird9181]

Nah, we had codex birdmen back in 8th. Tau have assimilated that title from us this edition. TS have a Tzaangor one, a Spawn / Mutalith one, a Demon engine one, something with demons and pacts that focusses on the infernal master because he's a unique thing for TS and.... oops, that's your 4, we ran out of ideas. So sorry. Its not like you wanted to play thousand sons in a thousand sons army anyway, right? If we're very VERY lucky, Tzaangor and Spawn / Muta will be a single detachment focusing around mutation and we'll get a cult of magic (preferably that isn't built around 1 strat making the rule completely OP for one unit, but is otherwise useless).

[@S0nyb1ack]

Rules should be free, if a company is selling me bespoke minis for the game, in my opinion. Come on! It is basically industry standard at this point... I play a variety of wargames and either the rules and unit stats are free and there is a miniature line for the game or the rules are not free (but 1 book is enough!), but the game is miniature agnostic, so I can (officially) use whichever minis I want. The vast majority of companies either want me to buy either their minis or a book, not both! Here is some stuff I enjoy with dedicated miniature lines: * Carnevale: free online rulebook, free character card PDF, free gang builder (not the best, but its functional, I would like to see some interface improvements) * Conquest: The last argument of Kings: free online rulebook and faction PDFs, great free army builder app * Malifaux: free online rulebook, a physical stat cards added to the minis when you buy them, the best army builder app in the hobby! (seriously this app is AMAZING and can even help you run the game by quickly generating setups and you can connect two apps to do all bookkeeping that side objectives might require in the apps and be synced for the game at hand)

[@Zadrias6386]

I’ve just brought into Dropfleet commander, and I got a booklet with the entire core rules in, along with all of the army rules and unit rules on a card sheet. Not to mention all the rules are available digitally.

[@vaughanpeters8321]

Armies with smaller ranges ie Custodes need more detachments not less. It’s great when armies like Orks and space marines can have entirely different armies for entirely different detachments. But for smaller armies they have to play with the same units each game so the only way to get any real variety in ways to play is to get more varied detachments.

[@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber]

At least the new codex power creep is (mostly) gone

[@saltytattie833]

The unfortunate side effect is I kinda dread the Sisters release in summer. I'm not too worried for CSM as my other army since they already confirmed 8 detachments (surely at least one will be fun right?). Sisters on the other hand I can easily imagine them sucking the flavour out of and giving too few detachments.

[@redspec01]

Yeah, balance is better overall, but people still complain just as much. Edit: Maybe my comment is too much of a turnoff as well. I am not trying to say poorhammer is wrong, they are right, GW should do better. What I am saying is that some fans are toxic, and complain to complain. The balance of the game is better than ever IMO, and instead of worrying that mid tier armies are not OP when they get a new codex, I would rather GW work on buffing the bottom armies, and debuff the top ones. There will always be a meta, and that meta will distort win rates more and more as the game becomes more balanced.

[@thefloatingcontinent9897]

Oh hey it’s VonCarmian! If anyone here plays Sisters do yourself a favor and check out this guy’s stuff

[@tastefulavenger]

​@@redspec01God I hate these Stu Black talking points. This isnt an esport it's a skrimish roleplaying game. I rather things be creative and fun than chess

[@saltytattie833]

@@redspec01 I think long term boring rules are gonna be worse for the game than overpowered ones that can be tuned down.

[@joshy7759]

You keep teasing these larger problems, give me an episode on how you would do 11e! (Not in a "let's see you do better" way, I would actually be interested in a design deep dive like this for it)

[@b-beale1931]

Commenting to boost this

[@ryang6931]

"I don't know if there's any other examples of leaders impacting unit interactions with detachments" cough cough bully boyz......cough cough warboss giving an entire squad of Boyz the warboss keyword and thus the extra turn of waaaagh in bully Boyz.

[@klaykid117]

Man, it's a good time to be an Ork player

[@willhenry7305]

One word: Mek

[@HarristheFord]

Also Crypteks in the Canoptek Court. They can embed with immortals and warriors to spread the keyword around.

[@RaggiDrex]

Does it work also for example for Azrael leading Hellblasters with lieutenant? Do they all get Deathwing keyword because of Azrael and can I slap enhancement from inner circle on lieutenant because of it?

[@joshuamccarthy3226]

​@RaggiDrex Probably not in that case as I believe you choose Enhancements during the choosing your army step, whereas you don't attach leaders until the Declare Battle Formations step.

[@gavin9695]

All of the design team saw this video! They said they’ll keep it in mind when they start on 11th edition :)

[@elijahnyre8673]

Where did you see that

[@JCMiniPainting]

I don't believe you.

[@gavin9695]

Sorry guys, it was meant to be a joke on how the codices are written really far in advance.

[@EngineerOfVaul]

God I hope the Aeldari get at least 7 detachments. 5 for each of the major craftworld themes: - One for a psyker heavy army, with farseers and warlocks, for Ulthwe. - One focused on jetbikes, vypers and falcons, for Saim-Hann. - One wraith heavy army, repping Iyanden. - One for boosting rangers and shroud runners (maybe give rangers OC), for Alaitoc. - And one focused on aspect warriors, for Biel-tan. The last two can be for combined forces. One for Harlequins and one for Corsairs.

[@thetimebinder]

We're going to get 4. One will be Harlequins, one will be Ynnari.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

A Wraith heavy army that makes them noticeably bulkier would certainly help. Maybe a another brand new Wraith unit devoted to long range fire support, a Dark Reaper style gun for instance.

[@EngineerOfVaul]

@@mrbigglezworth42 it's not really a troop and requires investment but they can get long range heavy firepower from a double gun wraithknight.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

@@EngineerOfVaul Wraithknights are also expensive to field in that setup and don't noticeably perform much better then just doubling up on Wraithlords with dual heavy weapons. Even the Wraithlords aren't ideal for that but are at the very least the cheapest Wraith unit available.

[@ryanburke6354]

Considering the run Eldar have had this edition, I think I'd be hoping the Codex never drops.

[@JKo-jv7kf]

Admech having almost all these failures. We're #1, yay!!

[@SwearingWizard77]

I just want to reinforce that a codex DOES NOT have to be busted to be good! If it expands on your faction and gives you equally fun, cool, and diverse ways to play them then its great!

[@daaaah_whoosh]

I think for T'au they shouldn't have made For the Greater Good the army rule. Especially because it doesn't work with auxiliaries or ethereals. Give a bunch of units the ability to be spotters, and then make a detachment that makes spotting even better. I think Kauyon/Montka would have been a better army rule, like each round you get to choose to either be more deadly or more mobile, something like that. And then detachments could just be Spotters/Kroot/Battlesuits/Tanks&Vehicles/Stealth. I'd say there should be an Ethereals detachment but there's only one Ethereal unit left.

[@vicio19995]

turn 1 start in monka after firts turn you can change to kauyon, (you cant change back to monka)

[@romainrondeau4242]

On the Montka/Kauyon i totally agree and make it you can choose one and change but if you change you're stuck and the more you stay in a way the more bonus you get.

[@benjackson8731]

I disagree. Tau is a synergy army, 8th and 9th they had markerlights to provide buffs, they are not a raw power army.

[@brianwise899]

Your units have keyword {BAD} while they are part of this detachment. {BAD} units are treated as if they are worse than before.

[@russel4682]

shout out Berilio for always having the best comic relief

[@monkeysruleall93]

If there was a fourth wall to break it would be dust, and I like that

[@samlynn1652]

I'm thinking that an TTRPG is a better comparison than Magic: The Gathering. Lots of TTRPG's have went to digital primary and the physical book is a luxury item you can get if you want it. It would also make a lot of sense for Warhammer to go that way. Also you can add new detachments via a new digital releases!

[@daviddines479]

Apologies but I want to increase the chance that this comment even gets read. Copied from the 40k Trivia show comments section which youtube just threw at me again. "I love this episode, I want more of this. Like it felt like 5 minutes. You can have tripled this and id have still probably wanted more, Eric Jenny and Berilio make a fantastically funny cast for this. Brad you did great hosting apart from the magnus question your wife beat you on" Having said that I posted that and noticed your comment about how much work it was for Berilio. Only if he agrees to it. Double shift for your hard working editor in chief. I didnt notice any issues with editing but it might have been because it was so funny.

[@scabeiathaxnovastorm2559]

Im so glad the ork codex is good. The idea of going an entire edition with nothing but bad codex breaks my brain. Honestly I preferred the power creep of 9th to a non-stop wave of disappointment.

[@bestnameever1850]

i dont know if i hard agree but i get your point nothing sucks more then waiting for your codex and getting publically crapped on however it does suck to get a codex be cool for a week then eat 600 points worth of nerfs and have all of your cool shit taken away its like would you rather be blind to the cool shit or get it only to have ot taken away

[@MichaelJ.Caboose-u5w]

I vote for Eric to change his Avatar to an Ork character.

[@danegrant6101]

GOOD FINKIN'!

[@Sir_Bucket]

And Brad into an Iron warrior

[@HExploZifs]

Yeah! He'z should stop mukkin about!

[@cadettrev762]

But then this wouldn’t be a Space Marine podcast with two hosts who main Space Marine factions

[@GHOSTY_ON_TOP]

Zoggin gud finkim

[@sidders1943]

It seems to me as though the bad codexes started off fun, then had bits chopped off to 'balance' them. Then the balance team sent them to print without checking that they were still fun.

[@justarandomtechpriest1578]

A few where probably supposed to get a bigger model release with them that they had to scrap and the codex where just printed without any change *cough cough* ad mech cybernerica *cough cough*

[@suetyhercules7717]

​@@justarandomtechpriest1578 why do you have to remind me 😢

[@Kodaiva]

I dont think any of them started out fun to begin with.

[@Atiredproblem]

Try Dat Button is nearly perfect for an AdMech detachment. It’s fluffy and perfectly encapsulates the esoteric weapons they use. Galvanic rifles? Maybe they *really* shoot well, maybe the explode because you fail four Hazardous rolls

[@SockimusPrime]

Berillio is going to keep that "I do wanna keep this all positive" clip in his back pocket forever, and I love it.

[@singularkakapo]

Hopefully this is a guide that at least one GW designer will read. But of course, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

[@stangjr5236]

I mean, when your codex has a rule for triarch detachment and THE TRIARCH DOESN'T HAVE HIS OWN KEYWORD... a vid like this is probably due.

[@RaptorianxdReviews]

Oh yeah? Well how about I hit the Like button and don't leave? Try and stop me magic bird man. As much as I love the positive episodes, sometimes you've got to talk about the problems. I'm glad you guys covered this, it's a worrying trend and it feels weird to be glad one second for a new codex and then to be worried the next second for a new codex On crusade rules: PLEASE don't make me suffer for playing my army in crusade, 9th was torture for my Blood Angels

[@bobthegamingtaco6073]

To be honest, I think after the crap they're pulling with rules, I'm just gonna make my own set of detachment rules for me and my friends, and we're just gonna play horde mode. I just can't have faith in gw to provide a fun game environment around their own minis anymore, not with how they've screwed up psychic, flying units, votann being half an army, harlequins being none of an army, world eaters being less of an army after they got rules, grey knights losing their main gimmicks, admech being 2k dollars for 2k points, just no. I'm done. At this point I don't want gw to pay attention to xenos because every time they focus on an army it gets worse, and then the price goes up.

[@strigoi_guhlqueen8355]

As a chaos knight player with 23 games under my belt with them in 10th ed. My army rule past turn 3 came into effect twice. TWICE

[@lelandmartin3970]

honestly the problem with custodies is their one weakness is given out like a gold star at a day care. devastating wounds are incredibly common and so the high base saves of custodies don't matter at all. honestly might be better off being protected from devastating wounds rather than mortal wounds.

[@Blu_Wolf64]

So I went to a Q&A last year at GWs KC open event. It was late at night and i cant remember who the person answering was but he was higher up on the US side and was brutally honest when answering questions. One of the questions was something along the lines of "why not go to an all digital rule set?" The legitimate answer was that "GW has found on average they sell two codexs per player of that army. So why would they stop?"

[@chaosclg]

Just announced emperors children index! We will have an EC codex soon

[@sonarchy5158]

It'd be hilarious if EC kept being an Index for the rest of 10ed I'd be furious, but it'd be hilarious

[@saltytattie833]

​@@sonarchy5158 They did say it won't be out in the foreseeable future so it'll definitely be a while

[@OGXenos]

Its probably not going to drop until after World Eaters at minimum, so not until late 2025.

[@chaosclg]

@@saltytattie833 it was already leaked last year because we are supposedly getting space wolves at the same time, end of the edition just like votaan and world eaters so could be up to 2 years realistically

[@Calvin_Coolage]

The timing on the announcement of the EC Index is really funny because of the fustercluck with Custodes, like they're throwing a bone to distract people.

[@triplea657aaa]

I think the answer is to start developing a community codex that's a digital codex created and balanced by the community. We could even have a fun zone where people can work on new custom detachments and factions that GW isn't willing to investigate into.

[@BlommaBaumbart]

As a great philosopher once said: Yarr, harr, fiddle-dee-dee.

[@sonarchy5158]

I believe that great philosopher was Kaptin Badrukk

[@B1GG33]

A PIRATES LIFE FOR ME

[@theshamurai32]

"I'm just being in character as Red Corsairs. It's called roleplaying!"

[@Graniteflight]

45:00 Regarding leaders giving keywords, the winged Prime is actually not the only example. The new Ork book does this quite a bit with the Warboss and Mek keywords in the relevant detatchments, and Crypteks give their keyword to Immortals (dear God why)

[@thepoorhammerpodcast]

I can't believe I forgot Crypteks, we even got stuff FAQ'd because of that detachment!

[@MICR0RAPT0R]

As an orks main I feel bad for everyone getting shafted. May your armies become playable soon friends

[@sipes55]

*3 months later GW: sorry not enough data

[@slowking2088]

Yeah my biggest positive about thr Custodians and Ork release is at least the ork players I know are happy. I play Custodians

[@SenseiLlama]

As an admech player I'm more.or.less waiting for next edition. We've got fundamental problems.

[@Sargedaheavy]

As a Necron player, I feel the same.

[@ValentineElCarbona]

AdMech since 9th edition...

[@alphachurch01]

I would toss in for enhancements of "don't make an enhancement that states for multiple units but only actually works for one". Power of the Hive Mind enhancement in the synaptic detachment technically can work on two units as they have the weapon profile for it which is the Swarmlord and Neurotyrant but as you know Swarmlord is an epic hero so cant use enhancements so only the Neurotyrant can use it.

[@the_rosegoddess]

I'm so happy you actually spoke about the T'au codex. I feel like due to it's potential power, people just refuse to hear me out when I criticize it. Four detachments is way too little, especially when one is dedicated to a small range of the faction only, and the other you get nothing until turn 3.

[@timeenoughatlast3368]

I love the Tyranids were clearly ballenced around Invasion fleet because if you gave them literally any decent datasheets that could deal with tanks, Invasion Fleet explodes. So all our other detachments feel like you're sifting through the bins to make something out of whats left.

[@madsurfr728]

To go off the “don’t have enhancements on 1 character” how about making sure it works with the character. New custodes enhancement gives a shooting buff to blade champ or shield captain but blade champ doesn’t have any ranged weapons. Sure, it affects the unit but come on… Also for strats, can we add a rule that if the detachment wants to care about characters, and your characters make a battle tactic free, that there’s at least a battle tactic available…

[@thepoorhammerpodcast]

Ok, that first one is funny and painful, I didn't notice that on my quick read of the leaks. The second I won't hold against the codex writer, it's almost certain it was written before the Battle Tactics change occurred in a dataslate. The codex will need FAQs done to modernize it to the dataslate (which gets back to the "stop making paper rules" point.)

[@madsurfr728]

@@thepoorhammerpodcast I can see that but my only issue with that is they have yet to change the type of a strat since making that balance dataslate and how they wrote this codex and the lack of synergies doesn’t instill confidence that they will make that change. I mean why run a codex detachment where the strats only affect a single model after removing so much already.

[@nathanflood2118]

What I like about the Tau Codex detachments is that even though there aren't a lot of them, they are all good and playable. In previous codices we've had a lot of squib detachments but every detachment in Tau has good play in it, even Kauyon and the Kroot detachment (which would probably be the best detachment in the game in any other army). I would like a mechanized detachment and maybe one that focused on Ethereals for flavor, but I'm actually content with what we got.

[@ismael9914]

Trying to defend GW a little, 9ed was powercreep the edition, where each time a codex dropped, the meta was about how to survive them until the Nerf gun was ready to shoot. So I can understand how GW rules team has TRIED to avoid 9ed problems. Nontheless, man, does Admech and Custodes codex feel like "go through hoops to get the smallest buff ever" Edit because I got shit memory: I need to start this with the fact that I LOVE how detachments work in 10ed and hope they stay this way. But yeah every army needs 6 detachment minimum. Tau's 4 detachments seem criminal because 1 is kroot only, another is mech spam and another is only active on T3 and onewards. So" if you want to have a varied army fuck you - GW"

[@aardvarkpepper7660]

Warhammer 40K 10th Edition: "We didn't get it right the last nine times :( . . . so spend over a thousand dollars for a new ruleset so we can try it again!" When you look at it that way none of it's a mistake really. 🤔

[@beanman853]

Tau actually has 3 very usable detachments

[@MrShukaku1991]

Give the Tau a stealthy detachment. Here, a detachment rule. Stealth Fields. All battlesuits with 9 wounds or less gain the stealth keyword. If an infantry model hasn't moved since the end of your last turn, it gains the stealth keyword and cannot be shot from outside 18". Give them enhancements that give a character Lone Operative, one that gives the character and unit they lead the smoke keyword and a once per game free pop of smoke for that unit.

[@Jfk2Mr]

So pretty much it is "Pop the smoke, they have AT gun!" detachment

[@MrShukaku1991]

​@@Jfk2Mr I was thinking more "win the ranged game without it being me just gunning you off the board"

[@theotv5522]

Might just be me but I love vids like these. It’s much more engaging and interesting than the happy go lucky topics

[@nathanstruble2177]

Oh wow I can't imagine what inspired THIS episode??!!?!

[@ramblingwrm]

We all knew it, but now it is painfully obvious that Games Workshop thinks it's better to prioritize how much money they can rake in per product than making the product worth buying All of this is crazy, considering how much money GW already makes They aren't nearing bankruptcy why do they do this shit

[@meiswaffle101]

Corporatism baby!

[@dalekperson3108]

I am extremely upset that we didnt get a tank/vehicle Tau detachment. It was the ONE detachment I was begging for.

[@Dokiwanson]

Hey guys, great episode. I listen to you mostly in the audio format due to time issues, but man do I have to at least watch some portions of the video as well because its just so well made and complements the format so much... s/o to Borelio and hats off to you all.

[@justinrockholt7055]

Step one, not be GW. Step two, ??? Step three, stay within the fantasy of the army. Step four, don’t profit because you aren’t GW and are infringing on copyright.

[@Cross_Malaki]

12:27 Like seriously, if Space Marines get a detachment per chapter, why can't we get one per sept? Easy fix: T'au - Kauyon, literally unchanged. Viorla - Montka. Boom. N'dras - Focus on stealth, make us harder to hit, boom. Borkan - Better weapons, either in range, damage, or ap. Boom. Tash'var - Army Wide FNP. Boom. Farsight - Battlesuit Detachment. Done. And go ahead and throw the Kroot detachment in for those people. That's 7 right off the bat.

[@b-beale1931]

Not farsight melee? Make tau survivable-ish in melee

[@bobthegamingtaco6073]

​@@b-beale1931 the trick to making tau survive in melee is to either make one of the sub-species have melee focus (like a berserker unit) or have a primaris style breakthrough in gundam suits that make them tougher/able to punch good lol. Both unfortunately require gw to care about tau

[@b-beale1931]

@@bobthegamingtaco6073 I was thinking more that their combat knife could be up to imperial guard bayonet/shovel standards

[@bobthegamingtaco6073]

@@b-beale1931 that would be a good start too

[@georgenettles3655]

Always an incredible job. I love how well our glorious editor makes the names of sections.

[@bruhschwagg490]

math is brads rage languages

[@RiffSilverthe1andonly]

Dread detachment is the pinnacle of all detachments, it’s fun, follows the army lore wise, has a theme, and the buffs are quite good, makes me wish I had Orks

[@remulean]

As an admech player, thank you for your righteous nerd rage.

[@MrPublikus]

For space marines they should definitely make each special chapter be their own thing that cant use the base marines detachements as long as they play chapter specific units.

[@Nobodywithabeard]

I'd say the exemption should be intercessors and heavy intercessors unless they have a different battleline unit that basically does the same thing

[@MrPublikus]

@@Nobodywithabeard I would just name them "Dark Angel Intercessor Squad" and either give them the same or, if you wanna go the extra mile, chapter specific rules. Like give the "Has OC1 even while battleshocked" to those intercessors and give the dettachement actually something even remotely usefull.

[@Nobodywithabeard]

@@MrPublikus yep that's a good way to do it

[@greg_mca]

Space wolves is trying since they have a unique variant of basically every remaining firstborn unit, but the detachment is terrible because while it's playing to an SW strength (the character roster) the characters are overcosted and they don't impart their keywords to the unit for detachment rules. Nobody uses it and for good reason

[@chrisbeau76]

The Dark Angels Supplement is a mess. All the Ravenwing Data Sheets that exist inside the supplement (Black Knights/Ravenwng Command Squad, Dark Shroud/Vengeance, etc..) have a unmentioned 5++ Save. This includes both Aircraft, the Nephilim Jet Fighter benefits the mosgt because he has a permanent -1 to be hit enemy shooting attacks, enemy shooting attacks that have the FLY keyword suffer a -1 to their wound rolls when trying to shoot the Nephilim and they layered a 5++ on top of that. For 195 points you can have a plane that your opponent is going to be -1 to hit and -1 to Wound and if you happen to hit and wound it, he still gets a 5++. I'm assuming this is a nod towards the 9th edition Jink bility which gave a 5++ to unitd with the Ravenwing keyword. This included Outriders and would have been applied to Stormspeeders because they gain ravenwing My only question is was this an oversight from the new GW staff? When divergent chapters take specific data sheets from the Vanilla Codex they typically contain keywwords so thjey stay consistent with the rest of the chapter like Ravenwing did in 9th and the A supplement isnt even close to being OP. It would help balance against several of the data sheets we lost, during the DA "Refresh". (Talon Master, Terminator Strike Master, Terminator Apothecary, Terminator Champion, Hell I'd be happy if they gave back Outriders their 5++ with the Ravenwing keyword, gave Inner Circle Compaions a -2 AP on their Direct Attacks profile (I was looking though other data sheets tha thad 2 handed weapons and they all had a -2 AP and maybe consider giving them a 5++ but only during the Fight phase. FOr some reason GW flipped the AP values for DA.Most of their data sheets that deal 2 or more damage in melee have a -1 AP... Also you cant raise the points on the Monolith when you made it the center of a detachment's special rules?? And increasing the points on all Necron Crypteks except for 1 and then increasing the Technomancer to 85 is a major set back after already removing a unit from the list of units they can lead. And changing Szereasd's points again, make up your damn minds... Increasing the costs of Immortals after nerfing Warriors 1 weapon and changijng thier Reanimarion diee from a D6 to a D3...and speaking of Reanimation, yes we already knew Reanimators with a 12" aura was too sztrong, but you guys did that. It should have been 6", and now we h ave to wait for another 6 months fpor actual faction rules changes. And why the sudden silent removal of the Overload with the Void Scythe. Can we assume that 40K is changing over to a 10.5 edition? I'm ready for 11h edition, because this has been a clcown show... Geez, I cant wait for the Chaos Marines Codex which has 8 Detachments...would be nice if we could get our 3 special characters back....oh and you should have increased Wraiths points and not the technomancer or split the increase between both...

[@ovan2190]

With how much of a cluster everything has been the past few days. This was honestly the most positive thing I've seen! I've honestly questioned staying in the hobby the past three days just because of reactions it's been rough and this honestly has been a serious but good episode :)

[@bobthegamingtaco6073]

Keep collecting minis, play horde mode. The Poorhammer ruleset is so much better than anything gw has released this edition lol

[@Ironmon94]

I'd love to see an episode where you guys showcase your own detachments following the rules you put in play here. Maybe bring a cohost so you can have 3 people spend 15 minutes to talk. You guys did an excellent job with the Horde mode, showing the community that we don't have to wait for GW to make up rules to play the game. Side note, I don't know if this makes you happy, but I love hearing Brad go on his rants. It fills my soul with such spiteful joy.

[@Rogurt_666]

As someone with a Grot revolushun' army I appreciate the grots as battleline. I also have a stompa, the dread mob is just for me.

[@byrpunchabear2225]

Such a pertinent episode today. I've been working on making an iron warriors detachment, which has very rapidly turned into making an entire army rule with multiple detachments. It's a daunting thing, but I'm having a great time with it. This video had some really great pointers in it. Good job, love what you do keep it up.

[@Meowmai]

You missed the Tau codex also having the sin of some models not having the army rule (none of the Auxiliaries get it). They at least TRIED to help with this by giving the Kroot detachment basically a second army rule but, sucks for you if you like using a mix of regular Tau and Kroot like I do.

[@dawnevergarden3275]

The bit at the end is easily the best joke we've gotten from the channel.

[@UrsusLvovich]

I do like these "negative" shows. So many content creators try to keep a happy spin on things, try to see the bright side of changes. That's all well and good, but it doesn't feel like "real" feelings. These shows show Brad's REAL feelings, and I love it!

[@Sparkyinbozo-xe9fn]

"I mean, you can pleasure yourself" was such a good line.

[@jorgemontero6384]

The army rule fail is also awful in Tau. The lore page says that Kroot are scouts for the army, and point out targets... except they can't be observer units. It's ridiculous.

[@jonmattison3939]

Agreed. If any unit in the army should be able to be a Spotter twice (Pathfinders) it should be [Kroot] units.

[@JCMiniPainting]

I get that Brad hates Dark Angels and didn't say anything about them, so I'm going to do that now, for him, with some issues I have. - The Inncer Circle rule doesn't give the Deathwing keyword to certain characters that sorely need it. For example, the Captain w/ Relic shield, aka the Bladguard Captain model from indomitus, is meant to lead Bladeguard. Bladeguard get Deathwing when they are in the Inncer Circle detachment. Captains do not. Technically he would gain the keyword once he leads Bladeguard, but since this is AFTER the army building step, your cool Captain leading Bladeguard can't take ANY of the enhancements from the detachment. - This is more of an issue with the holes in SM mounted characters than with Ravenwing in general, but SM has exactly ONE mounted character (chappy on bike), and Ravenwing get ONE additional datasheet to give enhancements to (RW command sqd). The entire Ravenwing detachment is basically 3x6 Black Knights led by one of 3 character's able to do so (Sammael is Epic hero) and then you're basically filling in the rest with Storm Speeders and ATVs. The fast mounted and vehicle style lists just have way too many holes still. - The Deathwing army rule, similar to the Admech issue, is a single buff you get in ONE phase of the game on ONE objective marker. Yes, we get to pick which objective that is each turn, but our entire gimmick is essentially 1/3rd of a rule - All the issues people had with the generic "greenwing" detachment rule still stand true. It's a rule that only happens when you're battle-shocked. I've played many games where that rule literally never even came up. Then you have other matchups like against CK where their army rule is literally boosting your army into being better. It's just so shocking (pun intended) that the rule either doesn't matter and may as well not exist, or is a complete and direct counter to another army's entire rule. There's little to no in-between - another issue with the Unforgiven detachment is that it's not really a tri-wing detachment like it pretends to be. It's just greenwing spam. In 9th there was so much nuance to the ratio of Greenwing, Deathwing, and Ravenwing you brough that influenced what secondaries you would pick and how you would prioritize. in 10th the best Tri-wing detachment is still Gladius. - Azreal STILL can't lead Company Heroes, which is clearly is mistake they just forgot to fix in the errata Overall I'd say the whole book and it's detachments are a resounding "meh", with shitty points values adding to the disappointment. On a positive note tho, I think that we've gotten some of the best new models since the release of 10th. Rules aside I have loved every single new model. Azreal, Azmodai, DWKs, the new Terminators, The Lion, Inncer Circle Companions, and our upgrade sprue are all great aesthetically speaking.

[@skullbaaka]

The first detachment that came to my mind at 44:20 was actually the new Bully Boys. The ability to attach a Warlord to a unit and have them be affected by the second waaaagh also really helps to diversify lists. If I really like a certain unit and I can put a warlord in there, I can use it.

[@micharybowski4911]

As for leaders giving abilities to squad it also works for Necron Crypteks and Dark Angels inner circle characters. I think it is 100% intentional design.

[@Tehstampede]

I play Chaos Knights and I completely agree, our army rule blows. Battleshock rarely becomes a factor on the tabletop because of how hard it is to actually fail a Battleshock test. Could someone legally write their own rules and share them with the public if they do not charge or in any way seek financial compensation for those rules? Kind of like how the rules committee writes the rules for EDH in Magic. They write rules and a ban list that build upon the existing framework of MTG for a different way to play with the WOTC product you've already bought.

[@Henry-ov7rh]

This is a sorta black templar specific gripe, but a nice addition to the detachment rules should be. "If your detachment has options, make sure the stratagems and enhancements are not useless when not using certain options."

[@chronovac]

To do a bit of fixing, I always thought a cool rule for the Annihilation Legion could have been something like "give lethal or sustained hits 1 (effects can vary) to a selected destroyer or flayed one unit against the closest enemy unit. If enemy units are equidistant from the selected unit, the player gets to choose". It'd be fun because not only is it fluffy with the whole "destroyers are so murder-raged that they get easily sidetracked for more murder" but it means there would be some positioning skill needed to get the bonus on what you need to and also your opponent would get some counterplay with smart screening to avoid the bonus against key units.

[@Barrlounge]

The Orks Dread Mob rule and Big Meks now having the MEK keyword is another (and better) example of the "Leader Expansion". 4 different Meks with a variety of what they can lead giving Infantry ways to interact with the Detachment rule

[@cylarith3542]

I'm surprised the Space Wolf detachment didn't get a mention for "Don't have a detachment rule that provides the opponent some control over whether or not the rule does anything. In addition don't have a detachment with effects that cannot activate depending on opponents army composition"

[@kallax7172]

Brad the episodes where you rant profusely are always the best. Make a video about your thoughts on charge rolls. I play mainly shooting armies so I have not had to charge a lot

[@DibbzTheLoner]

As good as the Ork codex is, they did miss an obvious wing of the army. There's no shooty detachment for flash gitz, shoota boys or lootas - the closest we have is the mek detachment but it sucks for that, since you can't attach meks to flash gitz, you don't want to attach meks to lootas (meks give reroll hits which lootas already get by default), and even with a mek leader you're still better off giving the boys choppas instead of shootas

[@coddaw]

The most amazing detachment to me is the Cybernatica Cohort. The detachment rule just gives Kastelns your army rule. You practically don't have a detachment rule for the rest of your list. Let alone the detachment only has Command Phase strats.

[@EmperorFawful]

51:52 As a Sisters of Silence player myself prior to this Codex and the detachment idea: There are already Sisters of Silence units that would fit the bill! Only problems: A) They're from their army list from 30k aka Horus Heresy, because yes, Sisters of Silence as a singular army there is a thing! B) Most of these covered models require kitbashing or your own imagination, because GW doesn't sell any models listed there. Which actually is a shame! Sisters of Silence have theoretically there a variety of weaponry, including needle guns, energy weapons, plasma pistols, fragment grenades, neural whips and a lot of more cool stuff! And in 30k they actually do have bikes! And even an animal handler squadron, that pretty much sends cyber creatures into open battle! They DO have a range! But Games Workshop is just too lazy to produce it. Source: 30k Liber Imperium, if there are any translation errors it's probably because I translated it 1:1 from my german copy of it. :) But yeah, my hopes are that we get at least the twin-bolt guns for Prosecutor and maybe the Kharon Pattern Acquisitor as 40k rules into the Armoury, if they leave everything from the plastic range as it is right now. That or maybe a later 30k release also getting us free rules for new Sisters of Silence plastic range would definitly make at least the Null Maiden Detachment more worth it instead of me still tinkering if I can somehow do Null Maiden with Imperial Knight Armigers and the Venerable Dreadnaughts + some Navy Breacher support from Imperial Agents to make it not only more unique, but also more fun to lose. ^^

[@Galnar]

I love this podcast, every week I have a big smile on my face when I open it

[@arkslippyjunior7773]

The leaders idea is brilliant, let me get my lord to join those havocs to give them the chosen detachment rule... Oh wait I feel like you should also mention that characters should be allowed join units generally speaking

[@thepoorhammerpodcast]

I really didn't want to spend another 3 hours going into datasheet issues. I feel like we could do that as a "Designing Codices 201" class instead of 101.

[@bobthegamingtaco6073]

​@@thepoorhammerpodcasti would love to listen to that lecture lol, game design is one of my favourite things to analyze, and James Workshop fails in such unique ways for a successful game that it's fascinating to dissect every little bit

[@brendanarmstrong7802]

45:00 - The Dread Mob in Orks absolutely does this. Not that there's a deep lack of walkers and grot vehicles, but with a potential for 9 meks of various flavors on the board leading 5 different core infantry units for Orks (and tankbusters), you end up turning the walker detachment into a pretty solid dakka detachment.

[@luckmyst3r986]

As someone who really likes the idea of Ass Swarm its such a missed opportunity to make the mouthy units harvesters. PoM, Mawlock, Trygon, Raveners and the Norn Assimilator are RIGHT THERE.

[@thepoorhammerpodcast]

The Biovore even has VORE in the name, but only the pyro got it. If vore isn't harvesting I don't wanna harvest.

[@christianhunt4999]

Custodes detachments: Terminators become battline Bikes/ jetpacks Dreadnoughts Make foot troops move faster Sagitarum/sisters shooting Watered down index detachment Extra stances for army rule

[@michaelhalligan6897]

Listening to youse while getting ready for work is starting to become a weekly tradition for me

[@jarrettdiperna8370]

"If you only got, like, 3CP at the start of the game, that's when rerolling charges becomes incredible value for melee armies, and is almost a requirement." Funny you should say that. I think 7th edition was exactly that way, where you started with a pool of CP for your army *and* strategems throughout the game. Incidentally, this also made units that could farm CP during the game borderline mandatory. Those were different times indeed, but I agree, in 10th rerolling charges is basically a non-rule anymore.

[@jarettduker1507]

I hear what you’re saying on the codex being only 6-10 pages. However I am really enjoying the 2 page spread of rules for my game system that was the idea of 10th. The rules complexity of 9th was crushing.

[@VindicareAssassinTTS]

There's a thing that's at the back of my mind while watching this episode: If you ever want to do a follow up to this, do a complete 180 and do a "How to write a codex(That isn't OP)" Because while I wholehartedly agree with the philosophy of "All armies should be fun, and to be fun you have to have some measure of power" this is how you end up with mid 9th ed. codicies where the popular joke was that to write a codex, you have to snort a long, fat line of cocaine, since all of the codicies were ON CRACK. In other words, make a guide how to make a codex not be destroying the balance of the game.

[@Paradoxed25]

6:35 Woah, I wasn't expecting a Flesh and Blood reference, I love that game. Recent developments really do raise questions on what GW's rules teams look like. There's no excuse for a company this big to make mistakes this bad.

[@DJDarkness65]

regarding the "in 9th you had a combat style in Tau where you used a lot of named characters": Shas O'Kais (from DoW: Dark Crusade), who is the third main commander of the T'au Empire alongisde Shadowsun (Kauyon) and Farsight (Mont'Ka), created his own philosophy of combat called The Monat ("The lone hero"), which was basically turning into a 1-man army. Gee, if only we could have that into design and have three different styles of army building with: - Massive power from tanks and mechs(Mont'Ka) - Strength in numbers and tactics (Kauyon) - Strength in characters and commanders (Monat) if only huh?

[@daguynexdoor]

Honestly, this didn't FEEL too negative. Plus, you ended on a good note. Great video

[@SockimusPrime]

Honestly, with Admech's doctrina imperatives, they should have just made them army-wide, the same way Sororitas get army-wide miracle dice, even on our Ecclesiarchy/non-sisters models. In the previous edition, penitent engines, arco-flagellants, etc, didn't get miracle dice, because those weren't actually Sisters. 10th looked at sisters and went, "No one wants to remember which models get which." Maybe it bends the lore a bit, but it's a lot easier and less frustrating.

[@alBoomer19]

Excited for you guys to jump into AOS 4.0 with Skaven and Seraphon! Wink wink nudge nudge

[@AAw3s0m3]

I will never get tired of how he brings up that the rules and their subsequent updates should all be provided digitally for free.

[@bobthegamingtaco6073]

Only makes sense for an evolving rulebook. Physical books should be for things that do not change, like their could be am argument for the basic rules of 10th edition being print, but anything that needs patching or balance changes should be in a pdf on the website.

[@SilverPrince_]

​@@bobthegamingtaco6073the problem is that the Balance Dataslate makes the point of Codexes moot. Rules can get changed so drastically that unless you cut out and tape the new wording old-school White Dwarf style into the book, a physical release makes no sense. Rules and datasheets on their own should be free, with anything else being paid for so the artists and writers get paid by people who want those extras in their $60 books

[@nuetella9764]

I am so glad that Necron's Army rule is so easy to remember

[@KraikLockheart]

This episode really highlights your strengths! Great episode!

[@jehb5785]

I'm convinced that whoever was in charge of the AdMech codex lost to them too many times in 9th and the 10th edition codex is their revenge

[@RvBnerd618]

Robin Cruddace did something similar with the 5th edition Tyranid Codex and gave IG a more favorable treatment. I'm curious if some of the writers are still working for GW at this point.

[@MRDALEK-wx7he]

A lot of dark Angels characters also give what ever they lead the ‘deathwing’ keyword so you can get +1 to wound hellblasters