Programming Curves

[@Lord_zeel]

The learning curve for C is sharply upward, flat for a bit, then a strait vertical line downward that represents the developer having experienced a real life segfault.

[@cyrilemeka6987]

😂😂

[@GiannisM-t5y]

😂😂😂😂

[@Turplemaple6318]

Then you become one with the computer 😱

[@tigana]

Sharply upward? I’m literally dying trying to just get it to create a file on my machine😭 Hopefully it’s just a permissions issue cause that was very humbling

[@AndersJackson]

Well, C is very low level, so it isn't that hard to understand, actually. Especially if you know some low level programming. And segment faults are part of the upward learning curve part.

[@kristoferssolo]

“Then you spend the next two years of your life trying to create tokio”

[@simpingsyndrome]

What is tokio?

[@ok-alarm]

@@simpingsyndromeits a rust crate

[@riceontopofbeans534]

@@simpingsyndrome a library that is a runtime for async rust

[@trashedlife1]

Hahahaha got me 😂😂😂

[@SpeaksYourWord]

​@@riceontopofbeans534what's async rust?

[@Joao-uj9km]

C/C++ learning curve actually has bumps where you move back.

[@SunglassOrang]

joão é um nome legal.

[@Joao-uj9km]

@@SunglassOrang obrigado sunglass

[@Joao-CE.U-1M]

@@SunglassOrang Well, Obrigado também, I guess.

[@perssontm1628]

I guess, if you try to overcomplicate things. But then you could always go back to what you're used to so I wouldn't say it ever goes downwards. I don't really think that's possible with logic and math based stuff. It's mostly memory.

[@oddeda]

Obviously, since the pointers are pointing back :)

[@alexscriba6075]

Haskell mentioned let’s gooo

[@vaisakh_km]

It's functional cousin Nix no where to be seen 😢

[@alvaromoe]

Pants off bois!

[@mentat92]

Haskell, when you start to learn, you say wow wonderful language and then you discover Monad… and you quit

[@vaisakh_km]

@@mentat92 i really like monad.. only reason i quit haskel cuz it's just faster to use any procedural language...

[@alexscriba6075]

@@mentat92 stick with it. Once you get used to monads they’re actually amazing. But definitely takes some getting used to.

[@programmersoham]

Haskell mentioned

[@engcuz]

I hate this language so bad . I had to take it as part of the degree

[@w花b]

​@@engcuz At least you can hate it properly. Most people hate languages when they barely wrote a hello world program.

[@engcuz]

@@w花b 😂

[@Thatchxl]

Haskell was an interesting experience. Looking at good Haskell code would feel so intuitive yet writing anything took forever for me. Whenever I got something working I felt like a genius

[@draiccun]

@@engcuz I like Haskell and I'm currently taking a course for my Master. BUT I HATE that we have it as a theory course and we are talking about semantics and syntax. Easy Haskell, hard Haskell, weird Haskell, upside down Haskell, Lambda, Typechecking and type inferenz. Ah lets make some proofs that everyone will forget about after the exam and that will make everyone hate functional programming. Like everyone says that OO is not a silver bullet and that you should consider other paradigms. Which I can agree on and I want to learn other programming styles. BUT when you are introduced to them with 0% practicality and a lot of proofs and weird mathematics, than you start to hate logical and functional programming. You program some "Hello World" type programs, but you don't learn when to use it and how to do real life problems.

[@T1Oracle]

The learning curve for C++ is a lime that extends to infinity because know one mind could ever hold all of it.

[@alivepenmods]

Plus they'll add features to the sdl faster that you can learn them

[@gogogooner]

Nahh, that's when you go from learning C++ itself to learning various shit that's been written in it.

[@Pavel.Zhigulin]

Until you try to explain somebody what std::launder do. After this you realize you never knew the language

[@Ruktiet]

Know? Syntax error

[@baranjan6969]

EVERY 3 GODDAMN YEARS WE GET NEW RULES THAT CONTRADICT STUFF THEY ADDED EARLIER

[@shApYT]

This man does more marketing for Haskell than every Haskell project in history combined. I might just try to maybe think about Haskell because of him.

[@thekillingspoon]

If it feels a bit daunting and you’re up for frontend, you could try Elm. It’s a simplified, polished version of Haskell in a lot of respects, and it makes frontend coding actually fun and easier IMO. If you don’t want to do frontend though, you might try OCaml as your Haskell gateway dr-err, language. (I haven’t used it, but it should be a lot easier to learn and get productive with than Haskell.)

[@BeethovenHD]

Learn You a Haskell for Great Good!

[@Loki-]

​@@BeethovenHD I forgot that even existed since my programming languages course... flashbacks...

[@byronvega8298]

You should, it's very fun!

[@Boxing_Gamer]

Haskell is amazing

[@PierreThierryKPH]

Haskell has a brutal learning curve at the beginning if you're alone, but it's such a joy after that. Even during the learning, actually, but it's a struggle sometimes.

[@JodyAlford]

As an outsider, language itself looks straightforward. I suspect it's the maths required to understand it that is brutal. 🤣 I've done some digging on category theory and have pro xp in functional programming. But I haven't put in the effort to earn my 💡on Monads for example.

[@XxZeldaxXXxLinkxX]

​@@JodyAlfordit's just a language, you don't need a math degree or anything. My gripe with learning haskell is just bringing myself to learn the unintutive syntax, but the struggle that most people have is just thinking in a functional programming style

[@paridhaxholli]

I didnt know dr disrespect knew programming😮

[@ipa_stor]

According this rust is a time machine?😂😂😂

[@vaisakh_km]

Rust is a time machine it took 6months to build the prototype

[@MrxDaffy]

@@vaisakh_km You wish rust is time machine, because it is only way to learn it in resonable time frame.

[@KeithBoehler]

Time control is a selling point of Rust.

[@jx5b]

Yeah, graphs dont work like that man :D.

[@applepie9806]

I thought it meant you learn Rust in pieces

[@jirapit]

Can we actually talk about what exactly are hard about async rust? As a rust beginner, rust feels very straight-forward. I used multi-threaded async rust in many of my projects, and everything just worked beautifully, but after talking with many professionals who use rust, I strongly believe that this is just an illusion and there must be something that I missed or haven't yet encountered to actually understand what are hard about it.

[@deezydoezeet]

I'm right here with you. The complexity of async in rust always flies way over my head.

[@parkourbee2]

Yeah I just slap some tokio on it

[@eps-nx8zg]

having used a lot of async rust in one of my projects now, I really do not think it is that bad.

[@diablo-project]

Problem is not with async or multithreading itself. Problems start appearing when you have some struct, that does not implement Send+Sync, because now you cannot just say "trust me bro", you need to satisfy a bunch of traits which you usually will not use. Arc

[@inertia_dagger]

​@@diablo-projectI'm trying to understand why Arc is needed. Arc is for non-static data so it could be freed, and Mutex is to make that data Send + Sync and avoid nasty bugs like data races, right?

[@Flameandfireclan]

He forgot to mention that you spend 1 year out of that 2 year period compiling Rust.

[@erice.3892]

this is true. try writing a function that returns an async function in Rust, and you’ll find out it’s basically impossible to satisfy the compiler.

[@zai_ry11]

the compiler pretty much became a karen😂

[@TheAlmosted]

I actually believe I now understand async rust... after 2 years of working on a project which I restarted from scratch in the middle because the previous owners of the project didn't do it in a rusty way. And had to add reverse engineering of encryption and hashing algorithms to re implement them in the project, and optimization to have it work as a web application...

[@irlshrek]

huh? this hasnt been my experience at all

[@knpark2025]

Mine for Python as a daily Excel replacement: /-____ The first "/" stands for "there's no way this is gonna work" and the following flatline is where I realized I can literally make it do anything I want and it will still do *something* that is useful to me. There is no way I am entitled to be getting away with this.

[@Canilho]

This is funny because I could tell from other short that this guy had issues learning async, and he mentioned it in this one :D It's part of the learning, either you got it, or you don't!

[@freeottis]

Exactly. Is there a language that makes it easy?

[@spaceshipable]

I think you also need to factor in the joy curve, because Go's joy curve is a flat line at y=0

[@ThePrimeagen]

We're going to need a doctor in the house if a programming go

[@AlbertBalbastreMorte]

I love it so far.

[@spaceshipable]

@@AlbertBalbastreMorte Your opinion is objectively wrong.

[@tjkatz]

​@@AlbertBalbastreMorte Go is short for Goat

[@ex-xg5hh]

Go's joy curve is a zigzag. It goes up a bit but falls back to 0 every time you write if err != nil.

[@QuirkCreep]

C++ : "curve,Interesting..."

[@uuu12343]

For go, the learning curve is exponential in a downward trend - its practically impossible at the start when you try and wrap your head around the dependency surrounding the go package management and its project management ONCE you got that down to a T, then it gets easier, but until then, its a straight line at all times

[@Veptis]

Python is the dunning Kruger bathtub

[@vasilyzorin2537]

I learnt Rust in just a couple days after which I wrote a complex multi-threaded async application using Tokio. Now a couple of months later I am the middle of a huge full-stack Rust project (using Leptos). Rust is so easy and pleasant to use.

[@Loki-]

​@@epixerty because they're literally the coolest and smartest person in the room

[@vasilyzorin2537]

​@@epixerty What I did is read the book for an hour or so and then read a lot of code for a few hours. Then I wrote my application throwing unwrap() and clone() all over the place just to make it work and it worked. The next day I removed most of the clone() calls and replaced all unwrap() calls with proper Result and Option handling. The Rust compiler is a true friend.

[@vasilyzorin2537]

@@Loki- nah, IQ 103. Average.

[@hagaiak]

@@epixertyIt's true that Rust forces us to learn many concepts which other languages might hide under the carpet. For newer devs it can be overwhelming to learn so much at once, but with years of experience and knowing most programming concepts, a person can learn Rust in a few days. But in fact, if you think about it, it took that person years to understand Rust. They just knew most of it from experience before approaching the language. Enjoy the journey, eventually it will all be second nature. Cheers

[@stysner4580]

@@Loki- I really don't understand people like you. You can absolutely learn the basics of Rust in a couple of hours, start programming some project and be pretty comfortable using Rust after a few days. Maybe you could not and are just jealous? Rust isn't nearly as hard as people say it is.

[@Talking__Ben]

I'm learning rust out of spite

[@piotrkowalczuk8183]

The Go learning curve depends on the amount of things you have to unlearn that you carry from other languages.

[@cookiedoodle0276]

Learning async in any language put me down always

[@pdgiddie]

Try Elixir 😊

[@marcelor1235]

@@pdgiddie i really like Elixir, but is hard to find Elixir developers for your team so...

[@pdgiddie]

@@marcelor1235 It's also hard for Elixir devs to find vacancies 😂 It's just a chicken-and-egg situation right now, but recognition is growing. There are agencies that specialise in Elixir recruitment, and job boards. The plus side is that most people looking for Elixir jobs have decent experience in the industry.

[@Templarfreak]

very similar curve like with Go with Lua. lil bit up, smooth sailing, then you start getting into things like coroutines and that the standard library is so tiny, but from there pretty smooth sailing again.

[@ahmadnorouzi2102]

Wow. I did not think I would see Lua here. I'm starting to get into it, but the tinyness of the standard library leaves me feeling a little breathless. Interesting syntax compared to what I've tried before though; I'll give it that. (It also doesn't have the problem of 0.1+0.2=0.30000000000000004)

[@Templarfreak]

@@ahmadnorouzi2102 luckily, Lua has been around for so long that there are a lot of resources that exist out there in the wild already. just have to go find it. that helps supplement the library some :D there are also projects like Love2D and a wide array of games that Lua is embedded which imo also makes learning it a lot easier because you can transfer understanding of Lua easily from game to game.

[@Garwinium]

No way new informative coding man explaining stuff with microsoft paint just dropped :O

[@malachibergman902]

I love Haskell. I taught other people when I was in college and it was a great experience. I didn’t know anyone else who genuinely enjoyed it. I loved it

[@prime3482]

It mostly feels like set of completely flat plateaus that still somehow go upwards...

[@ProCoder119x]

C++ learning curve: *Let me introduce myslef*

[@solidfacile983]

A thousand roads lead a man forever toward Haskell👨‍🦯

[@elbranlo4727]

You are not Thor bro 💀

[@astrahcat1212]

I'm very satisfied with having memorized a lot of JavaScript boilerplate and React. Used C# for a while before that and C++ before that, still like native development but JavaScript is pretty quick to learn if you get that functions are objects, and that there are different ways to write functions, then get down promises and async and basic node stuff.

[@eliseulucenabarros3920]

The Glorious Haskell Compiler!

[@LordHonkInc]

I tried learning Rust by implementing "Ray Tracing in a Weekend" last year, went great. Then I wanted to parallelize it; I'm still working on that bit.

[@RomanAvdeevX]

Try rayon crate

[@smileytrashbag6713]

As someone who took a college class on Haskell, youve successfully convinced me to never EVER touch Rust

[@softcoda]

Two years Rust, what a scary curve / graph.

[@caschque7242]

Yeah, learning Haskell even to a basic degree is an eye opener. At least it was for me. learning how to do functional programming is so helpful.

[@MatttKelly]

Im at the point where everything kinda blends together. I feel like, ultimately, all languages do the same thing (for the fundamentals mostly) and once you know the concepts you can pick up languages incredibly fast.

[@Pixcrafts]

That's why I like how AI gets more and more integrated into IDEs. I want to forever depart from the trivialities and focus on the business logic, creative aspect of an app

[@LimeGreenTeknii]

At first I thought he meant spoken languages, and he was talking about the conjugation of the verb go

[@PixelThorn]

The you learn c/c++ which has a smooth line and you realize you're overthinking things and it's all you need

[@ahadshaikh368]

C is itself easy but learning it's Data Structure is mental

[@maleldil1]

C is "easy" as in it makes it really easy to write code that has issues like segfaults, buffer overflows, use after free, etc.

[@conorstewart2214]

Maybe it’s just me having more experience in embedded than anything else but C data structures just seem to make a lot of sense.

[@kozas0]

what data structure? it's just bytes

[@sgfire526]

Haskell still gives me ptsd from my college days

[@AhmadK30]

i was in an internship at this stupid crypto startup and they expected me to be fully proficient with rust to write their backend for borrowing withdrawing solana cause the founders did not know how to do it and I resigned 2 weeks later cause they expected too much while helping me to no level

[@tjmburns]

I'll never stop loving haskell

[@Phenom0100]

At Florida State University where I have my Master's in Computer Science they start you off with C/C++ for intro, Object Oriented, and data structures courses. I believe this is the case to make other languages easier to learn or atleast understand.

[@5h4n6]

Haha this is great! I've delved into Rust for 8 months, and I really like it. I guess what's needed is a certain mindset. Mind you, I've not entered yet the depths of Rustonomicon.

[@Dharengo]

Is this PirateSoftware's alt channel?

[@adrunkenloner]

Homeboy copying Thor's video style

[@orkcol]

i know right

[@CartoonRevive]

Nothing wrong with that

[@crashbash8549]

Bro thinks he's thor

[@MetaKnight68]

If it ain't broke

[@missionpupa]

Thor didn't invent Ms paint

[@ItsPatessGem]

Is this pirate software from wish?

[@cube_player]

no its piratesoftware with a mustache

[@Moped_Mike]

Why does my graph look like it’s crashing into 2 vertical lines then burns so hot it melts steel….

[@kipchickensout]

been using C# for 6 years and i still get stumped by cool or useful things that i didn't know sometimes

[@stysner4580]

Which is a problem. There are so many ways to do things in C# and most of the time there are huge performance traps in the majority of those ways. People call Rust verbose, but C# can be even worse at times.

[@kipchickensout]

@@stysner4580 I have yet to have any problems regarding performance, very often it just generates identical lowered C# I wouldn't call C# very verbose either

[@Boxing_Gamer]

Any language that allows null should just be disregarded per default, it cannot be used for anything serious.

[@zookaroo2132]

​@@Boxing_Gamer hyperbolically cool, reastically hyperbolic

[@amritnalam9994]

​@Boxing_Gamer Why? Java allows it and works for a lot of stuff, right? I'm sure I'm missing something lol

[@vitalis]

Not me trying to learn Spanish and then finding out every object has a genre and 10000 verb variations

[@HalfinchLonomia]

it's called rust because when you try to move in it, it breaks

[@SWard-oe8oj]

sounds like someone who knows html and css

[@AndrewLuhring]

now if they had said "move a value in it, the borrow checker comes for your soul" I'd be able to empathize

[@gljames24]

No, that's python.

[@SWard-oe8oj]

@@gljames24 he doesn't have a clue about programming

[@matthewx2799]

Python: *goes below the line*

[@ViewportPlaythrough]

i learn a part of a language according to what my current project needs. thus learning curve depends highly on what im trying to do or what functionalities are needed for that project. if all youre doing with A is add something up, but you have to make a whole framework using B, no matter how hard A is irrelevant to the scope of what needs to be done with B

[@ojassharma56]

The way this man writes the S is just mind boggling to me

[@vikram8514]

Javas learning curve starts from infinity

[@falkez1514]

now C is like, a tiny slope, a bit constant then just straight down forever

[@Carface03]

Pirate Software if he used more than sqaures:

[@panjak323]

Everybody gangsta until learning Prolog

[@mikerepec]

It’s not a loop, it’s a spiral.

[@silverschmerz4261]

Haskell's strong but the documentation for its higher-order abstractions (Monads) should be re-written so a junior dev without math Ph.D. can understand it in less than 2 hours.

[@zionvad]

async is pretty clear for previous users of python with gevent,eventlet and then async/await in python 3.0

[@dirtydevotee]

Sorry, Rust has an "async" and an "await" function that revolve around setting and resolving a "future". So, what are we talking about here?

[@coollobsterr]

someone said "Go is my hammer and everything is a nail."

[@MyThoughts19902X]

That's where the name rust comes from. It rusts your mind by the time you learn it.

[@ChrisVisserDev]

Problem with js is that its one thing to learn the syntax, but learning all the patterns to build things correctly takes a whole different level of reasoning that takes years of practice

[@Sem7ex_e]

I fucking started learning rust by making a web server ... after 17 years of programming, I thought I was an imposter !

[@hannibal8049]

"..Then you can travel in time"

[@warmooze]

I glimpsed into C++ and I'm convinced that its learning curve has an imaginary axis.

[@heroes-of-balkan]

If C is a simple footgun with no protection measures, and if C++ is more protected footgun but when protection is somehow removed, it hurts more, then Rust is a smart shotgun

[@titan_codes]

I used async Rust in my last job for 2 years and I honestly thought it was fine after the initial learning curve.

[@StaticSkyTV]

Dude treats Rust like a toxic exGF he can't get over...

[@thatmg]

The comedic timing here is perfect.

[@thepopmanbrad]

Oh hey he’s using that tactic from Thor about drawing on screen and people pay attention when you talk or something

[@demyk214]

I do so much Async Rust I enjoy it too this day. Yes it’s difficult but it kinda feels rewarding

[@Psychewukong]

I know javascript, I'm comfortable with javascript and now I want to learn go/rust/haskell, which one should I go ahead with? And each of these language is used for building what?

[@xemkis]

The difficulties of writing Rust are largely just the difficulties of writing thread safe code made manifest.

[@sherlockho4613]

try drawing the haskell,scala,cpp curve would be interesting to see

[@tsiiphsycoii]

The learning curve for common lisp never ends.

[@wiwbiz2]

C++ guy here...

[@hitts8928]

C++: YOU START IN THE NEGATIVE 😂😂

[@showmeyourcritz321]

The learning curve of MatLab (as "programming language") goes in negative X axis direction 😂😂😂

[@SumanRoy.official]

What's the curve for Love language 💀?

[@marc-io]

So he never used haskell

[@buizelmeme6288]

I wonder if java is like rust, but only if u use it outside of Minecraft modding?

[@kylekingsberry5680]

Having written an asynchronous multithreaded server for doing one-to-many audio streaming between clients, I fully agree 😢. Never again

[@laurentbajrami3688]

Did'nt rust promise "fearless concurrency"?

[@alkolaqi83]

This guy keeping everyone honest

[@agtugo9197]

Hahahaha you travelled in time with rust, pretty accurate

[@emeraldbonsai]

I’ve only ever done async and parallel rust and I really don’t understand the hate for it it’s so nice was trying to do Similiar stuff in go and was having massive issues and crashes. I did use to use nodejs back before they standardized async so maybe I’m just used to it but it really confuses me the hate

[@milosworks]

Rust is the epitome of “we want to make a complicated language just because we can”

[@holl7w]

This is like a very uneducated take. I can sniff the smell.

[@FrezoreR]

Now give us the learning curve of Haskell!

[@lucianithildin1748]

ALL THE CRABS, WAKE UP!

[@sandhilt]

Trying learn Haskell and Rust in same time.

[@ConradHansenQuartey]

the way he came for Rust :O

[@alenasenie6928]

XD, first thing I did when learning rust was async and multiprocess, is just so easy compared to python for me, it makes so much sense, maybe it is the language for people with ADHD, but I don't get how it would be considered hard, the hardest part for me was to declare the types (not really necessary but super helpful with the rust compiler). Also, apparently I am good at transfering my knowledge from one language to another, I have gotten over begginer level in hours with new languages with syntax that I had not used before (I learned to program, but my degree didn't required to test many languages, I was taught mostly with python and VHDL, also some octave/mathlab, but is all transferable with only slight differences in the syntax in my opinion.

[@californiadreams1170]

As someone who volunterely decided to learn Rust, this is true

[@Fitz0fury]

Haskell bit actually made me lol.