Therapist Flirts With Client

[@Alayhoo]

WOW. Listening to this one was really hard for me. That therapist was out of line. It’s clear she feels unsafe but is questioning that because of the position of power the therapist occupies. Therapy is a place where you can be vulnerable, but if your therapist is being a creep, you can’t let your guard down. I felt creeped out after the first example hearing he messaged her as if it was THAT important and couldn’t wait till next session. Sir, boundaries! Hearing that woman’s experiences horrifies me. His behavior felt predatory and calculated. For him to say “you’ll make me lose my job”. WOW. As if she is responsible for his behavior. That’s like a precursor to victim blaming. I feel disgusted. If I were the client, I’d make a record of his inappropriate statements, ghost him and report him to the licensing board.

[@ashleypearson7848]

You stole the words out.of my mouth lol

[@sherriflemming3218]

Agree. Report them.

[@An-hv1nt]

hi kirk and gang! please do more episodes "case" style like you did this one! turning one email into an entire episode gives a really nice in depth perspective on what may be happening! loved this ep. thank u

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Will do!

[@An-hv1nt]

@@PsychologyInSeattle love it

[@RobynTheHuman]

I love this podcast! I am experiencing transference for my therapist out of nowhere and I feel so uncomfortable with myself. I want him to like me so much but I know that's unethical and I don't actually want that. it gives me comfort to hear about how to deal with this professionally. And although this episode is about the therapist feeling this for the client, it is reassuring. i told my therapist about it last session and I'm scared to see him again but i was just glad to not be rejected

[@bugbean5500]

1:00:52 I experience the ending the session on time thing exactly the other way round. Last week I´ve been waiting for 45 minutes patiently and with a warm feeling in my chest for my therapist because I knew he´s caring for someone who´s obviously in need right now. I have been this person more than once and I couldn´t move at all because of the severe dissociative state I was in. The only other solution would have been to call an ambulance to bring me to the ER which would have been very retraumatizing due to medical trauma. I talked about him having been late in the next session because I was so happy about me trusting in our relationship so much that I felt warm instead of abandoned whilst waiting for him and he said that it´s just necessary sometimes to take more time like it can happen in other medical areas as well. When there´s an emergency situation everyone else has to wait. He´s a trauma specialist (MD and psychologist) at a clinic so that´s where his approach might come from but I really enjoyed the long wait as strange as it sounds. I´m so thankful that he cares so deeply and that there are other people besides me who benefit from him being the loving person that he is.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Aw. That's really nice of you.

[@emmahathaway-vf6ml]

32:13 There is an old saying that if you have to jump through so many hoops to get to the answer is probably the shorter route

[@thedragodile545]

I was so attracted to my former therapist. He was handsome, smart, funny, really listened to me, and treated me with an acceptance that was so complete, it made me feel like I wasn't telling the stories right, or else he'd be seeing how Wrong and Bad I was. What's not to like? I told him early on that I was experiencing some transference but I was not inappropriate with him (despite my inappropriate thoughts that I thoroughly enjoyed) and he was NEVER inappropriate with me. If I can know, as the person needing therapy, how wrong it would be to pursue that in that setting, how the hell do trained professionals make a habit of it the way this creep does?? Insane.

[@sherriflemming3218]

It's best to choose a therapist of the same gender.

[@thedragodile545]

@@sherriflemming3218 it's best to choose a therapist who best suits your needs.

[@lenanayashkova]

I feel like if my therapist said to me what the grandfatherly therapist did as described, it would be (and feel) very inappropriate. You do not need to comment on how hot women are, honestly (leaving out very rare cases)

[@ExtraordinaryMachine333]

Same. As a woman, I've been told too many inappropriate things by "grandfatherly" types to not feel uncomfortable about that.

[@lenanayashkova]

@@ExtraordinaryMachine333 exactly! Come to think of it it's so often the case that older men pretend since they are older it does not count as harrasment

[@sherriflemming3218]

It's best to choose a therapist of the same gender.

[@ylana4444]

@@sherriflemming3218 I’m lesbian so that’s challenging too. :)

[@andedom]

This was good analysis and helps me see things through the eyes of my therapists (not that either my couple or individual therapist is attracted to me, specifically 😂). It’s also helpful to me as a person in a fairly high level position within my company. It gives me questions to ask myself when I’m interacting with other employees who I may form an attraction to (not that I’ve ever even considered dating a colleague or someone in a lower level position) and the steps to take if something like that occurred!

[@gunnhildk6299]

This was interesting! It is very telling what words this therapist use, when he said that "you gonna make me lose my license". Blaming her already!! HE would make him lose his license if he cross some lines, not her! He doesn´t take responsibility for his actions. I hope this woman finds a good solution for herself. Wish her all the best.

[@christinacox2415]

I absolutely loved this episode. Thank you so much. I am an MFT in training and have been seeing a therapist for myself to deal with confidence issues and past trauma. This episode has been very helpful and sobering to me; such great advice on this topic.

[@LiLzZluvinJ]

If I’m being honest, it sounds like the therapist slowly ramps up the uncomfortable comments/actions in order to test the waters and see how many boundaries he could cross with this viewer. Maybe that’s an assumption on my part, but it’s something I noticed as I’m listening to the podcast. The therapist’s phrases comes off in a flirty manner. 20:57

[@Alayhoo]

That was my impression as well. The therapist’s comments seemed calculated, testing the waters as you said. I heard major red flags indicating the therapist is aware of his position of power in the relationship dynamic and used that to take advantage of his client. It’s gross.

[@sherriflemming3218]

A therapist of the same gender is a better choice with credible reputation and treatment modality.

[@wildcat62282]

I feel like you’re being very forgiving with a bunch of seriously inappropriate comments by that therapist. I get it, you’re sick of people without credentials saying something is “unethical” but shit that therapists comments were bizarre af. Most of them had me thinking “what the actual fuck?” I feel bad for anyone with boundary issues or who are suffering from trauma who put up with those weird unnecessary and uncomfortable comments

[@Alayhoo]

I was also thinking wtaf to every comment the therapist made starting with the first one. None of it seemed okay and still doesn’t regardless of Dr. Honda’s explanations. That’s said, I don’t think Dr. H is being forgiving, I think he’s speculating as to what could be happening from multiple perspectives because he has such an extensive background providing supervison to therapists in training and as a therapist for 25 years himself. At the same time, I can totally understand how listeners may feel he’s making excuses when I think he’s really, imo, trying to take a less black and white approach. The other thing to note here is that Dr H identifies as a cisgender man. He has not lived his entire life under the constant threat of violence solely based on his gender, and there have been a few times, and perhaps this is one of those times, that I can tell Dr H’s lack of that particular lived experience influences his perception of what he would say is and is not creepy. E.g. I was getting creeper vibes immediately upon hearing the listeners story whereas Dr. H didn’t. I had to remind myself while listening to him that of course I’m extra sensitive to any level of creep factor because I’ve always had to be. Women who let their guard down run the risk of being blamed for whatever violence is perpetrated against us.

[@paulastella8268]

Who wants to ever hear a therapist tell you that? It should NEVER become this,in the first place.

[@johnnada6855]

I think a Therapist can say to a man or woman, "well did you realize you are beautiful and that might be a reason people react in that fashion towards you?., men always come to you or women?"., but really it doesn´t help much, YES there are people that are beautiful and have so low selfesteem or are so insecure of themselves that they don´t realize they have that "social worth" in themselves., BUT there is NEUROSIS in play, and a woman can get paranoid by the fact that men are always looking at her because she is beautiful so you have to work on that issue too, how to deal with the anxiety and paraonia, and also the client might think you are hinting on them or you don´t understand them cause in their world realizing they are physically beautiful just isn´t a fact till they finally realize it for themselves., so it can really be a double edge sword situation and i don´t think it can help much, people´s minds is a very complex world, you think other people understands things like you but you might be very wrong

[@johnnada6855]

In my opinion the Therapist must NOT tell the client about the feelings, either love, hate, boredom, anger or sexual, must work it within him or herself and must stop and send the client to another professional if he or she feels that can´t manage their counter transference, what if the CLIENT comes out about flirting and wanting to have sex, finds him or herself inlove, paranoia or hate?, the therapist can a) manage it if he or she is skilled to do so, or b) can stop the treatment and recommend another therapist, i think eventually if the treatment is stopped the client can be a couple but BEWARE, that relationship might not be recommended cause it will be with a mentally disturbed person and based on the fantasies of the transference, even when both adults agree it might start in problematic bases, so NO, do not have sex, relationships, fights, friendship or business relationship other than the straight professional limited to the treatment with any client or client related people like friends, partners or family

[@kellywatts2084]

My therapist had sex with me in his office and I was then considered a liability and turned down by three other therapists here in Palm desert California.

[@paulastella8268]

Clients Terminate immediately if yiu ever get attatched to your so called therapist. Therapy DO NO HARM

[@sherriflemming3218]

Exactly. It's best to choose a therapist of the same gender. Develop a trusting relationship.

[@paulastella8268]

I have CPTSD, and my former therapist had no right to ask about this subject. I will Never let another person in because of this.

[@-leezha-]

I wish you luck in your healing journey. I hope you can find someone to let in- on YOUR terms completely, of course! I don't want to come off as anything other than supportive, so I do want to clarify I'm not trying to push you to do so- just sending the most caring vibes your way❤ much love.

[@sherriflemming3218]

This therapist wasn't credible in CPTSD modality. Next! Verify credentials. CBT and EDMR. The Hoffman Process by John and Julie Gottman The Untethered Soul by Micheal Singer

[@johnnada6855]

To have a "romantic or sexual" relationship with your therapist is NEVER good and always obeys to psychological issues either in the therapist or client., in any case, the therapy must stop if there is a personal relationship and that relation might be problematic, so at the end of the day, the therapist must be aware and notice it and do something about it., and the client too, either stop it or work it., so NO, any type of hate, abuse, friendship, romantic or sexual relationship is never good., is not ethical, is not pragmatical and in the case that is mutual, can lead to a problematic relationship

[@Transform108]

Jung and Freud both dealt with these feeling at the foundation of psychiatry. Jung has an affair with a client TW and Freud wrote the first book on countertransference. Considering the ethical and legal issues presented these feelings can be very very strong. Trusted supervision is critical. Countertransference is alive and well in therapy and mirrors a parallel process in life. Countertransference is an unconscious phenomena. We throw this word out like it is so clear... A response to transference, another unconscious phenomena. Maybe you are attracted for real - maybe it is a response to a dynamic worthy of exploring - if it can be ID'd and made conscious first though. One can have the opposite of attraction, utter revulsion too. Same thing - but does not strike the legal ethical chords. There is something like 16 fundamental complexes in the room with two people - any can trigger some kind of reaction like this for their own unique reasons. The therapist must a be wise enough of themselves to catch these attraction symptoms so they can chart which of the complexes is causing the issue. Many may simply end in delighting in the faux pleasure. But hey life is partly made from this type of pleasure. It's their job though! Yikes!

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Yeah, these struggles have been known and discussed since Breuer in 1880, and yet many in our field are clueless.

[@DoreenWeed]

This is not a new problem! I quit seeing therapist of any kind because of this exact same situation that my family was in 25 years ago. There were rumors that the psychologist in question was having a sexual relationship with a female client and finally the ethics board received complaints and he was found to be guilty. Lost his license but never saw jail time.

[@danielkurmann3524]

I miss Bob

[@alietc843]

Honestly, I would say that telling the client to "speak up about" being uncomfortable with it is easy to say to a woman than actually done. There is a hierarchal relationship in general with these dynamics, so to say the client needs to advocate for herself... in a therapy environment... causes harm. Not to say she is helpless, but she's in a vulnerable setting as it is.

[@stevemartin1320]

I don't know if you've ever used this analogy before, but I'm pretty sure a high school teacher would be attracted to a student, say. If a teacher is unable to separate 'attracted to' to 'obsessed with,' there would be an issue there, correct? Power issue, insecurity in the need to have a student find them as amazing, etc... Would this analogy make sense regarding therapist/client?

[@Transform108]

Attraction is a funny thing. An example, A child can be attracted to a mother for their warmth. Attraction totally unsexual, presexual.... If an adult felt that way towards someone our culture accepts that to be a sexual thing generally. We call them mom! They say hey girl, hey boy. Be my Daddy. Why not take every feeling of attraction and turn it into the deed! ... We suck in the head culturally. Just suck. So much projection in this world! Why not stamp out countertransference and transference? It may not be possible. Therapy would turn into ... here is a pattern to execute in life follow directive. Directives installed - proceeding. It would be so robotic and inhuman! We need these things for good therapy. We need to carry God for each other, Mom, Son, all sorts of things. We can caught up at any stage in the 100 flavors of attraction... Screw these schools that leave it at right and wrong ethics and empathy ( a surface level thing) ... become a master of transference and countertransference. You really do risk losing some of the faux magic in life - but you see so much more clearly. More real. Join the .01% of adults willing to do this. Therapists do your jobs, or walk away.

[@paulastella8268]

Clients protect yourself at all times

[@paulastella8268]

All therapists lie when the justify what they are doing. They need to come through and tell the client why they did what they did. There is something wrong with your being attracted to them. This is why people don't go into therapy.

[@sherriflemming3218]

Choose a therapist of the same gender with credible reputation and treatment modality.

[@ninetyZeven]

48:48 Ol' Dirty Bob again.

[@Gokce-Aysun]

Oh my gosh. If my therapist told me that, about the sex toys, I would be appalled. I personally do not think that is appropriate at all. Is it really a yellow flag? Pretty sure my husband would be disturbed by it too. I wonder how her therapist even thought it was something he should try to suggest. A therapist like this would not get good reactions from my cultural pocket lol. Sex therapist or not lol. Things like that are so taboo to discuss with someone who is not your intimate partner in mine and my husbands culture. And we come from completely different cultures. He is Central European and I am Central Asian/East European. Also he messaged her privately about it too? Like he did not bring it up in a session? Kind of sus... 😊 Sounds really bizarre to me personally.

[@ariane_bn]

That's a very interesting point! I'm Central European/Middle Eastern, and I'd have absolutely no issue discussing sex or sex toys with a therapist if we were talking about my marriage. I think it's all about the subtext. This therapist definitely didn't suggest it in a helpful way😬

[@Gokce-Aysun]

@@ariane_bn The main thing that I thought was strange was that he did not talk about in the session from my understanding. He texted her. Also, he is not her sex therapist. He told her he used to be a sex therapist. Unless I heard this stuff wrong. Maybe I missed something. Plus, the way she describes it, he is constantly commenting on her looks. I am getting icky vibes personally. As for me and my husband, we could be an older generation. We talk and communicate openly about sex- with each other. But it's one of those private subjects. Like we are not from a generation where you even talk about your sexual conquests and feats with your friends lol. If that's what younger people do today that's great and all. I definitely do not judge. And I understand we are all different and unique. A lot of people, if not most, in my generation and cultural pocket, are probably going to think it's kind of weird though. That is actually why I asked about this, because how does the therapist even know that's the right approach to take with her? See I have been living most of my life in the United States and still would think that is really weird. If I was a therapist, even a sex therapist, or former sex therapist (lol), I feel like I would be careful with my clients. And make sure they are open to that kind of communication before it makes someone uncomfortable, or offends someone. I am assuming that since she is questioning if this is normal behavior might mean she feels at least a little uncomfortable. If that was me, I would definitely think this therapist is not for me. Even commenting on my looks I would not appreciate it at all. lol I would 100% dislike it more than my husband would. Who is Italian btw/ and not Muslim. That's why I would be even more weirded out by it then him probably. I am probably a little more conservative in this way than he is. He would think the sex toy 'text' exchange was totally out of line though.🤣😂🤣 I am going to take a guess and say a lot of people might. But maybe I totally misunderstood that, and it wasn't texting. I am just picturing her having left her session and some time later him texting her like, oh I was wondering... How is your sex life? Do you use sex toys? (Like, what?! lol) Someone please tell me I misunderstood. 😄

[@christinacox2415]

Who needs a counseling, therapy, or social work degree, objective assessments and the DSM-5 when you have internet blogs and Tik Tok to diagnose people? 😂You have to meet criteria by standards given from a mental health professional who use diagnostic tools who know what to look for. You can't just go around diagnosing people with personality disorders because you don't like them.

[@chium2383]

Interesting!

[@paulastella8268]

It's too bad your having a hard time with therapy. You therapist ask your clients all the time to be real You never are,or you abandon your client totally. Tell me,how does one trust after this occurance?

[@paulastella8268]

At NO time a therapist in my opinion EVER ask about sex or sexual issues. It is up to the client to reveal what they want to.

[@AllyMack23]

Some people really want to talk about it, but have a hard time bringing it up themselves (due to being shamed, it being taboo, not being sure if it's ok to talk about in therapy, etc.). As a therapist, I offer it as a topic and explain why I'm asking (it's recommended by my agency to gently bring it up) but I make it clear they can share as much or as little as they want. Or not at all.

[@sherriflemming3218]

Indeed it's the clients choice to mention or discuss this.

[@grapplerunit]

Lol there is no maybe in starting a sexual romantic relationship

[@kd1676]

I had six theraphyst 5 was women one man i wasnt flirting just manipulate with him i know its srupid i just can talk with women

[@LovingFlowers]

First 🎉

[@paulastella8268]

You as a therapist should NEVER become attatched to your clients and the same is true for your clients. There is no Attraction, if it's there is continuous therapy on the therapist part. Get over yourself!

[@sherriflemming3218]

Indeed. You're right. Unethical and poor boundaries.

[@_Slay_laziness_]

Hello there, in my role as an aspiring designer, I'm ready to turn your KZbin channel into an enthralling visual adventure. Let's inject it with detailed decorations, lively components, and an essence of distinctiveness that will genuinely hold your audience's attention. Collaboratively, we'll construct a visual story that not only sparks curiosity but also guarantees a smooth progression of your content, leaving your viewers enthusiastic for more. Let's embark on this journey of creativity together and grant your channel the allure it truly merits!

[@nfasano1]

Huh?