Therapist Reacts: Girl Defined Wants You to Develop Mental Compulsions?!

[@Lefty_loosy87]

Sorry “Girls,” but imma go with good old excommunicated/ vindicated Galileo; “I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.”

[@MommaBeeb]

This is so well said!!

[@Luubelaar]

Perfectly said.

[@read_the_room]

wasn't it newton that said that though?

[@kellyalves756]

Amen.

[@gwyniveregrieder9788]

@@read_the_room no it was galileo

[@WrenBird449]

I was raised fundamentalist Christian and underestimated the passive suicide ideation UNTIL I was an adult and had one of the most horrifying moments of my life with my then five year old daughter. She had just been to church with my fundamentalist grandmother (though I was out of the religion, I didn't mind her sometimes being dragged along to church), and we're sitting at the breakfast table and my FIVE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER says "Mom, I can't wait to die." I was so stunned. "Why would you say that?" She shrugs and says, "Because I'll go to heaven and have the perfect body." FIVE. She was FIVE. I was crying, telling her that she's already perfect. And since that day, I will NEVER see these types of creators as anything but atrociously toxic.

[@toxicsugarart2103]

👁👄👁 bruh holy shit

[@Nero_Coniglio]

I'm so sorry you had to deal with that yourself and with your child. I can't imagine how terrifying that must have been. I'm thankful she has you to support her and tell her she's wonderful the way she is.

[@carameldare]

I have memories at the age of 5 of my mom encouraging this exact fantasy in me.

[@KellyDVance]

I think that I would loose it on the priest or minister or clergy-whatever that made my 5y/o feel like that. That would also be the day that I would tell my husband (Catholic, I'm atheist) that she is not going to attend any service. You have my sympathy and agreement. These creators are disgusting and dangerous. I kind of want to know what church Kristen and Bethany attend so I could buy a billboard ad denouncing them right by it. (They live in my city.)

[@rustykettle6889]

I can relate to that. It's so annoying to hear people talk about how severe anxiety/depression comes from not accepting Jesus, when most of my problems are rooted in religious trauma.

[@DBMe33]

Telling ppl that their hearts are deceptive, deceitful, wicked, against them, etc. is serious cult talk. Thats brainswashing 101. Internally break up the person's sense of self & then weaponize those now damaged/distorted internal pieces against each other.

[@terryparenteau1200]

Americans never get sick of religion.Religion is their poisin.

[@brendasmith7345]

@Strange Little Girl 👀 Exactly right!

[@blueismylove3128]

​​@@terryparenteau1200hat are you talking about? All cultures of religion and/or spiritual in some way or another

[@eyesofthecervino3366]

The sad thing is, I think the healthy translation of that would be something along the lines of understanding that you can have false ideas or maladaptive ways of thinking that can screw you up, so it really is good to be mindful and question what you're thinking/feeling, where it's coming from, and if it's really in line with reality. There's an important message here that properly applied can help a lot of people, but it's being twisted into telling people to abdicate that responsibility to think for themselves and instead to bury their own thoughts and feelings and just do as they're told without questioning it.

[@iLuvSmartCars]

I bawled my eyes out when I learned that religious influenced OCD is something other people also deal with. I thought I was possessed by a demon for years. Religious guilt absolutely fueled my mental decline in my late teen years. I finally got on medication 6 years ago and began seeing a therapist, much to my parents’ chagrin. I still get religious-guilt influenced panic attacks, but I’m working through it as best I can.

[@thishumaniscalledsarah]

Shame, that must’ve been horrible, especially with your struggle being invalidated by your parents. Good luck to you💗

[@33melonpaws77]

Stay strong, you're brave for seeking help and walking such a tough path.

[@carpenoctumpoetry8400]

I know how you feel. This was so much of my descent. I remember feeling like there were always dark presences around me, developing nervous ticks and other compulsions. I felt so alone, and the guilt and shame were absolutely crushing. So grateful to not be there anymore, but still. It has been (and continues to be) a process. You’re not alone 💜

[@Cathartes223]

I'm another one who's dealt with scrupulosity. It really did feel like I was possessed by a demon. I was 10.

[@katniss425]

I had the possession compulsive thoughts too… just realized that’s what that was. Damn :/

[@Selene_Rosara]

Bethany checking her phone while Kristin rambles is a whole assed mood. Like, same.

[@haniinii]

people have actually made compilations of her doing that 😂

[@kannakanina6552]

@@haniinii 🤣 If I could find a compilation of that I would watch it! Have a link? 🤣🤣🤣

[@BeckBeckGo]

Guys I just realized… she has a bible app and she’s looking up shit to support their garbage. When she quotes the Bible she’s reading from her phone.

[@kannakanina6552]

@@BeckBeckGo I thought so too, but she does it many times then sets it back down each time. I can believe that she’s looking up verses to share, but then has to keep changing verses… in the case that she is, it seems like be she is having trouble getting a word in. No matter the case, it is a bit awkward to watch and try to figure out. With all of videos they have done, I would think they could plan a bit better at least.

[@Selene_Rosara]

@@BeckBeckGo I would believe that except she does it constantly. She just doesn't care about what Kristen is saying.

[@Flareontoast]

What you said about not having one trait define your identity is so true. It's another reason why children labeled "gifted" are so easily screwed up later. As soon as we are confronted with situations where we no longer perceive ourselves as competent or capable, it's like a house of cards that just collapses.

[@shaliekk]

I love your username

[@claudialanzarini3739]

one like for this comment from this collapsing house of cards right here u.u

[@CJMGalaxy]

...Oh, shit. Is that what's up with that aspect of my life? Damn, I've got my first appointment with my new therapist in under a month and it couldn't come quick enough

[@saskiascott8181]

Oh damn I feel this so much

[@mammoneymelon]

okay call me out like that then

[@FinntasticMrFox]

I saw some religious propaganda recently that said "Satan doesn't whisper 'Believe in me', he whispers 'Believe in yourself'" and, honestly, that line alone sells me on Satan. Sounds like a pretty okay guy.

[@gothiclove4977]

Oh wow did they say that😱 thats not ok to tell tenagers

[@purple._.radiation703]

I remember when I was a kid and the show started talking about believing in yourself we'd litteraly turn it off because we thought it was bad... Like I grew up thinking it was wrong to believe in myself and my mom wonders why I have such bad self esteem

[@brittybee6615]

That’s about egotism, narcissism, hubris...uh, not good things

[@baizhuwaitingroom7057]

On a side note, notice how Satan represents enlightment, knowledge and critical thinking. Those qualities make controlling and manipulating people harder, thus they conveniently got associated with evil. And then there's the whole "God's sheep" bs. Can you get any less subtle than that. 💀

[@lulucool45]

good ol' Self-care Satan

[@JulieHerrick]

2:37 - "Afraid of their own brains" stopped me in my tracks. That's exactly what it felt like for me when I was stuck in evangelicalism (before I found my way out.) I was regularly terrified of my own thoughts. I used thought-stopping techniques whenever I had thoughts that questioned the doctrines of my own faith. It was awful!

[@cb034]

Your comment made me realize that i did and *still* do this. Yikes i need therapy😂

[@itscristawells]

I was raised in a Christian household (and I still am personally, just without all of the toxic stuff i’d been taught), and my dad used to always say that if you weren’t questioning something, you were in a dangerous place. not saying this to assume anything about your personal or religious beliefs (if you still are religious at all), but saying that even as a religious person, my dad always reminded me that it was human to question things, and (i believe) God made us with brains and intellectual thoughts so that we could question things and truly get to the root of why we believe what we believe. My dad always said it was toxic to believe in something 100% without having that intellectual part to it. faith is one thing, but to blindly follow something that doesn’t make sense or that your brain is constantly questioning, that’s damaging and opens the door for manipulation and brainwashing and i’m really grateful he did, because even tho him and I have different fundamental values now, it allowed me to question and eventually understand my religion/faith for myself, and now i know for a fact that i know what i believe and exactly why i believe it, and i will always think it’s so harmful for Kristen & Bethany to say that your thoughts are always dangerous. Because sometimes they can be, but naturally questioning something you can’t see or understand fully is NORMAL. it pisses me off that they say this expecting people to blindly follow something

[@rhiana7166]

The mormon church teaches "DOUBT YOUR DOUBTS! not your religion" Toxic! Doubt is healthy!

[@gymnasticsgirlie0647]

@@cb034 Please get it!

[@ko-lq7vu]

there’s a difference between saying “nobody’s perfect so all u can do is try your best” and “we’re all broken, needy, desperately sick creatures who need salvation.”

[@michellewages]

YES! The "everyone is a sinner " teaching actually helped my self esteem as a teen! That perfect person you can't be as good as? They are actually equal to you! No one is better than you! And it increases empathy! That horrible person you look down on? You aren't better than them! We're all equal. No one is better. These women that girls are trying to emulate? No better than anyone else!

[@UnsuspectingCommenterPassingBy]

I’ve been thinking about this for a while, and I think the first statement was exactly the point of having a figure that represents purity and perfection. There’s nothing inherently wrong, but this more productive representation got lost in translation when people started misrepresenting it to control the masses, thus that notion of “punishment and repentance” got so widespread that people continue to accept it to this day.

[@ko-lq7vu]

@@UnsuspectingCommenterPassingBy that makes sense

[@spOOkytimes]

@@UnsuspectingCommenterPassingBy agreed! It is mentioned multiple times that we were literally made to be imperfect and we are forgiven for this. Basically the bible teaches us to ask for forgiveness (from ourselves and God), grant it, learn from our mistake with full sincerity, and move on while trying to do better next time. "God made everyone of us to be unique" gets quickly twisted to "God made some of us better than others".

[@Salululations]

@@spOOkytimes god making everyone to be imperfect and expecting them to beg forgiveness is sick.

[@Stray_Reverie]

When you mentioned passive suicidality I felt that haaarrrdd. When you perpetuate the concept of your life being an endless progression of screw-ups, the logical solution to stop screwing up is dying, right? That was my line of logic at 11 years old. I grew up in an environment that said the exact things Girl Defined does, but with less cheery 'hey sisteeerrr' vibes. I was miserable, anxious, and exhausted. As an adult I still fight that logic to this day and it is very hard. I'm in therapy now, and I'm trying to be better and learn to love myself a little more.

[@georgiabates2412]

I grew up in that type of environment as well. It’s exhausting being told everyday is a battle. It’s not, and there is peace and joy, because life is beautiful. It’s not perfect, but it’s beautiful

[@mammoneymelon]

i fully remember being really young (maybe 4-5) and telling my parents that i wanted to be dead because everything would be perfect and that's so horrifying to think about in hindsight

[@upsetbaguette]

As someone who has OCD and went to Catholic school as a child…holy shit the connections between mental compulsions, purity issues, scrupulosity, shame and RAMPANT guilt…it’s so obvious to me now and super dangerous. Thanks for talking about this.

[@l6318]

The Catholic guilt is very real. I've worked on it in therapy a lot. It definitely gets better, but I had to be pretty patient with myself. Sending you all the good vibes going forward on this one!

[@paulathepooh]

Fellow former Catholic who developed compulsions here! I would really like Mickey to comment on Catholic speakers like Jason Evert, that would be so helpful...

[@upsetbaguette]

Sending virtual hugs to both of you 🥰

[@marzipanthehedgehog]

im not catholic im muslim and i also have ocd and mental compulsions that stem from these same things. its nice to know im not alone :)

[@l.mcghee3146]

Went to Catholic school as a child and I suspect I have OCD… I understand. It sucks.

[@leopardshadow333]

Girl defined describing their way of thinking as "countercultural" is such a depressing example of the current american conservative "im so persecuted for being a rich white christian" line of thinking

[@33melonpaws77]

Yup, it's in the same neighborhood of performative fake martyrdom - like NO you brats, you're just not being treated as special, important and above reproach any more.

[@NovemberXXVII]

It's especially funny because conservative Christians have been the ones railing against anything truly countercultural for decades. Like legit, DECADES of conservatives and evangelicals trying to capitalize on the Otherness of any group that challenges their hegemony, up to and including spreading malicious lies that have now morphed into dangerous conspiracy theories. Then after 60+ years of being the establishment view, capitalizing on the privilege of being White and Christian and Conservative...they decide to flip it. It's no longer hip or marketable for them to be seen as defending the status quo, so a lot of em decided to swap stories and pretend the people they've been persecuting for years are actually now *the mainstream*. It depends on a shocking ignorance of history, but fortunately for GD and their ilk, that's pretty normal in conservative circles.

[@FloppityFlopFlop777]

Worse than that, their "countercultural Christianity" pushes a total dehumanization of women and girls.

[@hauntedmushroomsasmr7716]

Oh that’s such a real statement. What on EARTH do they mean that being white, straight, cis, upper middle class, Christian is somehow persecuted in today’s society? They are the status quo, literally no one says it’s not okay to be Christian or anything.

[@luisandrade2254]

The fact that you think countercultural means persecuted and that conservatives are rich just shows how out of touch liberals are with reality that’s why common man conservatives are winning the culture war and we’ll win we have the people you have fear mongering and bigoted mindset maybe get of your Bubble once in a while

[@e.randles5621]

I was raised on this kind of stuff (not girl defined specifically, but very similar "yes God loves you, but also you as a human are fundamentally evil" messages, and the way you break down how these messages are harmful is helpful to me, so thank you!

[@jacjac_jac]

Same on all points

[@arianas7866]

Love you

[@Sophia-vk5bq]

Same, coming from a Wesleyan church growing up.

[@Elle_Riley]

samee, I was raised christian orthodox and was going to make a similar comment but saw you already did so 💕💕 hope you're having a good day, stay safe ❤️

[@MissSpaz]

Samee. I grew up in a fundie Christian cult until age 7-8ish. Then a fundamentalist Christian less-culty church until age 18. I was also attending Synagogue, as my stepfather was Jewish, and that's the only thing that kept me somewhat sane- spiritually. All that hate still was engrained into me.

[@brittany1049]

The whole idea that “your heart is sick” reeeeeally kinda undermines the whole thing about loving god and knowing god’s love through your heart…

[@KristenNicoleYT]

Your point about “these are the people who end up in my office later unable to feel their feelings“ hit home with me. I grew up in a church that preached this rhetoric about not being able to trust your heart and humans being inherently evil basically from birth… one of the things that I have to work on with my therapist is literally recognizing my feelings

[@rozalinenelhams8307]

I know the feeling I went through a similar thing.

[@boofdahpoo]

This point hit home with me as well. In fact, it took me decades of therapy just to come to terms and peace with all of the shame, self-hatred, and ugliness that was a part of my life coming of age in such a toxic religious environment. Hugs to you--you're definitely not alone!

[@frozenraspberries1552]

Same here! That logic along with "thought crime" led me to believe I can't trust the things I think, feel, say or do. I learned that I developed a habit where I would try to edit everything I say before they come out of my mouth to sound as perfect and mature as possible. And also if someone says something is wrong with me I automatically believe them without question.

[@juliamariaelisabeth2511]

I went through the same thing. Went to therapy for a year in my early twenties talking about feelings. Feelings in general and connecting to my feelings. I didn’t realise until now that my christian upbringing is the biggest contributor.

[@darkestnights77]

Yup, I would've been another one of those patients.

[@RowanShard]

"these are the people who end up in my office unable to feel their emotions in the moment..." So that's why I intellectualize all of my emotions??? Fuck, that makes so much sense; thank you. Every day, I'm learning new ways that my childhood and religious upbringing still affect me, and gosh, it is so helpful

[@l6318]

5:05 Wait...didn't they write an entire-ass book about their teenage modeling and beauty experiences? The experiences that were particular to them and that they claim informed their specific religious views? Sounds like *their truth* to me, but OK, let's just say that was all God's deal, sure.

[@alexofalexyel]

Eh, when they're already in a religion that focuses on a man-written book that's full of plot holes and contradictions, I can't expect anything more than hypocrisy/contradictions.

[@finngswan3732]

Fuck yes, thank you for tackling that damn verse about how your "heart" is evil. That was a HUGE factor in my issues and disassociation. These videos help dissect the horrors I put myself through as a teen and early 20s.

[@francescaiacono7846]

Atheist woman with a life-long (and pretty exhausting) OCD here: thank you for having noticed the thing about Hyper-vigilance in fundamentalism! I always thought I would have been a perfect victim of fundamentalist if borned in the "right" enviroment for this exact reason! Also: we want a cross-over episode with Jen, please!

[@brigeem5022]

Yes yes yes! My household life was pretty non-religious, but I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school from daycare-12th grade. I was always an anxious child, and the added factor of God Is Always Watching made it infinitely worse. Went on to develop OCD and lost any belief I may have had after age 13 or 14. I’m just glad my parents (mom raised Southern Baptist, dad raised Catholic) were not uber religious, though much of their families still are.

[@TherealHRHMarissa]

I was raised Mormon and I took all of this kind of stuff they’re saying suuuper seriously as a teenager and lived a hellish existence from about 13-16 and then spent the next sevenish years recovering and battling these crazy compulsive thoughts. It’s wild. I don’t even know.

[@saltydinonuggies1841]

I dont have ocd but religion definitely aided in my psychotic symptoms. Not only having "god always watching" me but the threat of demons. Its horrible. I dont think religion is inherently dangerous but so so so so many people make it so toxic.

[@hope-cat4894]

Same. There's a name for it, "Scrupulosity." Starting to worry that the loudest supporters of this kind of thing are just people with undiagnosed OCD. It's not like therapy is promoted in fundamentalist communities. 😱 I hope those people find support one day.

[@carameldare]

I have had lifelong OCD and was raised in a fundie catholic family. I developed some horrible compulsions around praying. They were so hard tp break because people around me were like, its so good you pray so much!

[@thoughts4coffee]

The self-monitoring was my key to deconstructing and leaving Christianity. I was so exhausted by a lifetime of compulsively reviewing everything I said, did, thought, wore, ate, drank, read, studied, sang, played, wrote. And if something made me feel good, that meant it was bad because "the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked". Every time I felt good about myself, that was an opportunity to remind myself that I was actually terrible. I'm just now realizing how this environment created my anxiety and depression and actively encouraged me to feel that way.

[@rhys-pect_4536]

Ex-fundamentalist here. I was raised on stuff exactly like this. It resulted in severe anxiety and depression from about ages 12-27. I still struggle with this old mentality it causes me stress on a daily basis. Getting counseling now. 10/10 recommend counseling.

[@arianas7866]

I love you

[@ameliagrein5070]

I’m sorry. I’m glad you are getting help for something that shouldn’t have happened to you. It’s very brave. 💐

[@carlycoleman8385]

I am only 21 and I completely relate. If you ever want to talk/share experiences just LMK. I’ve been trying to find a community of people with similar backgrounds as me, because sometimes dealing with the anxiety and pain can feel so lonely.

[@rhys-pect_4536]

@@carlycoleman8385 Yeah I would like that. It can feel pretty damn lonely. I’ve done alot of my deconstruction on my own so far. Most of my family is still following that very fundamentalist mindset.

[@lindabelcher974]

I’m proud of you. I’m in therapy now for the same reason at 24. It’s hard, but so much better.

[@Resilient_Sage88]

Their Passive Aggressiveness gives me "Regina George mean girl" vibes like I could totally see one of them saying that whole "You look really pretty." "Oh thank you." "So you agree? You think you're really pretty?"

[@5am_nightmares]

Girl Defined whining about people cherry picking the religious texts they follow while wearing clothes made of multiple materials (Leviticus 19:19), one of them wearing a braid (Timothy 2:9), makes me think that they also don’t follow each and every thing written in the Bible….hmmmmmmmm

[@pineappleconroy]

Those laws were for the Jews in the Old Testament and Christians are told they don't have to follow them anymore in the New Testament. More accurately, their own interpretations of the texts shown in themselves their own cherry picking. In the bible, the word "heart" is actually a translation for our minds. The bible is going on about false teachers IN THE CHURCH (just like Girl Defined) and being careful to not allow harmful teaching into our hearts (minds)....literally them using passages saying "don't listen to us"

[@saltydinonuggies1841]

@@pineappleconroy wasnt the "man shall not lie with man" also in the old testament? Cause they follow that one.

[@Sapphykins]

@@saltydinonuggies1841 yes, but unfortunately most of the explicitly homophobic stuff in the Bible actually comes from the new testament (Paul, specifically) so it's not considered to have been included when the Jewish societal rules were lifted from the early Christians in Acts. Which is not to say that evangelicals aren't cherry picking, just that that's unfortunately one of the more justified cherry picks

[@pineappleconroy]

@@saltydinonuggies1841 It is repeated in the New Testament

[@liliamrachelleon3385]

The new testament is like a child that goes to their parents and says, so from now on I get to sleep after 1am, I get to not do my homework whenever I want, but I still get to watch cartoons after school 😔😏

[@saskiascott8181]

It IS exhausting to live like that. Thank you for verbalising this. I'm a Christian still recovering from a form of Christianity that had me monitoring myself and suppressing my natural, healthy feelings and instincts. It only made things worse. I love having a vibrant, diversified life now with a secure attachment to a loving God.

[@itscristawells]

piggy-backing off of this to just say yessssss 10000%. deconstruction has helped me so so much, and it hasn’t turned me away from my belief in a creator or in the Christian God, it has just allowed me to strip myself of those harmful, toxic views that continued to perpetuate negativity and depression and self-doubt for myself. i never realized how exhausted I was carrying some of my ‘beliefs’ until i finally allowed myself to let go of them and understand that it’s okay to lose those ‘values’ while still holding on to the faith in God or your religious faith in general. thank you for voicing this and encouraging me that there can be both. you can lose those toxic ‘values’ and not lose the root of your faith, and it’s so encouraging for me to see that someone else has managed to do that for themselves as well.

[@saskiascott8181]

@@itscristawells ❤

[@Yararar]

Me too..I was not happy living like that, it was depressing, I am so much happier and healthier now, listening to my internal feelings and instincts. I feel like I must’ve been quite toxic to be around back then

[@MaidMirawyn]

God made us unique. He didn’t create an army of clones. Aside from how ineffective that would be, can you imagine how boring it would be? Ugh!

[@Kudeshka]

@@itscristawells I used to go to a College Church and after graduating they told me straight up to leave and now I can see how that was Gods way of directing me to leave and I am glad because so many people were so toxic and the environment was toxic. People like this have skewed my view of God and now I am learning who God really is

[@abbythecat01]

“The heart is desperately sick above all things.” Then Girl Defined goes on to tell their audience not to trust their own hearts and feelings and personal convictions because one’s feelings might not align with *God’s* feelings/(this part is implied) could lead them astray down a path of sin. This is the equivalent of demanding that their audience abstains from thinking for themselves or practicing good critical thinking skills. Discouraging critical thinking could be a good example for Grade A tight fisted control techniques that cults utilize to keep their followers compliant, docile, and submissive to their core message.

[@dr-skelebones]

Exactly! A more normal interpretation of that verse suggests that the heart is sick so people do things that harm others, or get joy out of being hurtful. Anytime you get a kick out of belittling someone, or getting material gain by harming others, that's the manifestation of the kind of sin that Paul was talking about in that verse. It's not about refusing your own reason or your own needs, it's about being aware of the deeply flawed nature of humanity. Ironically Girl Defined act out that nature by cringeing away from other people who don't meet their definition of "purity" - there's a whole article written by Kristen about how she physically recoiled from a sex worker she met at a coffeeshop.

[@miss1of2]

@@dr-skelebones She forgets the part where Jesus let a prostitute wash his feet and dry them with her hair.... And then they go preach about cherry picking! They are the worst kind of religious people. They act as if they live everyone but they are actually full of hate!

[@vintagearisen]

Remember kids, everything we "know" about God comes from other humans, so you're basically just trusting that someone else's heart and feelings and personal convictions are somehow better and more reliable than your own.

[@mimo__.-]

I literally just made a comment abt this lol. It makes people doubt their most primal alarm bells telling them something's wrong, and sees any alignment out of God (according to them) to be completely immoral and worthy of shame

[@pamelaberry6875]

@@vintagearisen I was looking for this comment! Also a reason why people shouldn't get so literal with each phrase and word, it's just whatever the translator thought to write.

[@tacticalmisandrist]

Kristen and Bethany talk in huge run on sentences that just never end and I can’t ever understand what they’re saying lmao

[@rhonddalesley]

It drives me insane almost as much as what they’re spouting does, they talk over each other all the time and I think the reason they talk so quickly is to make sure they each get their piece in before the other interrupts

[@marciatillison2893]

YES! It is like watching a Chip and Dale cartoon. How Mickey has sat through their videos without screaming at the screen is a miracle.

[@misty1tl]

It’s because they lack the experience or background that would make their assumptions credible. They keep grasping at superficial ideas and adding it to their drivel.

[@AleTitan]

@@misty1tl its really hard to analyze Christian texts that isn't superficial. If you're readying the text carefully, you'll eventually run into passages that contradict each other, or can be debunked, etc. So in order to not do that, they keep it superficial (Hope this makes sense, just woke up and my brain is still mush)

[@queenmotherhane4374]

Listening to them natter on is like being repeatedly hit on the head with a ball-peen hammer.

[@terransage8857]

Slightly unrelated but u can tell from GD’s aesthetic that they really make a connection between whiteness (in every sense) and Christian purity

[@amycortez3289]

Absolutely. It's 💯 a "white is right" aesthetic. It's big with a lot of fundies, I've noticed.

[@laurenmccann9563]

Their grandparents were legit nazis 🙃

[@amycortez3289]

@@laurenmccann9563 Omg. How could I forget that?

[@CJMGalaxy]

They are VERY proud of their Nazi family members.

[@kellyalves756]

@@CJMGalaxy They freaking look like a Hitlerjuden recruitment poster.

[@BlueLemons_96]

Since de-converting, I've found a lot of inner peace calling my former religion 'christian mythology.' I view it like I do Greek mythology: Christianity is one of the many stories old civilizations told themselves to make sense of their world. Religion is no longer the meter stick I use to measure my own worth or morals against.

[@suncoco6495]

Right.

[@ohjonash]

You can cherry pick anything from the Bible to make any point. It grinds my gears when people take stories and scripture out of context to say that they’re right and anyone else is wrong. Smh.

[@not_you_i_dont_even_know_you]

Particularly when cultural and historical and linguistic context is totally ignored. Translations have bias, y'all.

[@cobblegen1204]

I’m pretty sure that one of the verses in the Bible that calls homosexuality a sin was actually doctored in during the 1940’s by the church to hamper the gay rights movement. You could write in the Bible with crayon and people like girl defined would still follow the new verse it like it was always there.

[@1kpennyxx238]

You mean the verses about buying and selling slaves aren't followed today??? :o

[@saltydinonuggies1841]

@@cobblegen1204 yeah it was somewhere around there. But these kinds of religious people will always use it to excuse their bigotry.

[@misskirika2043]

“The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs.(D) 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.” Mark 11:12-25 You heard the Bible, Jesus says fuck fig trees. No more fig Newtons for anyone.

[@emmawillard520]

can i just say how grateful i am for you making these videos? i grew up in a strict catholic home, and for many years was very involved w/ the faith. the messages constantly pushed by gd and by catholicism are “just give it to god”, “make it a sacrifice”, “even if you have no idea what’s happening, just trust god”, “pray more. and if you’re still feeling sad, keep praying. this one saint prayed for twenty years for her son!!” instead of learning how to regulate my emotions and acknowledge them in a healthy way, i experienced shame and fear (for thinking *impure* thoughts), panic, and the whole “giving them up” mindset (i.e. shove them down and ignoring them until *god* took care of it) all made for a WILD mental health ride in my later teen years. even after having left and having fully divorced that set of beliefs, i still experience guilt and shame (hell, i’m even feeling a little guilty typing this out). anyway, hearing you so eloquently list what is wrong w/ this way of thinking is giving me an incredible amount of closure and comfort, so thank you :)

[@cailinmc4166]

as someone who has OCD and mental compulsions, thank you for bringing this up. mental checking can be so distressing and exhausting and i cannot imagine how damaging it would be to live in a community that actively encourages it.

[@not_you_i_dont_even_know_you]

I went through a period of time as a young fundie christian just obsessed with hearing god's voice to the point where i "submitted" every choice to god ..... And nothing good ensued, unsurprisingly. Absolutely wracked with anxiety and doubt and terror. 👍

[@pinkbunny6272]

I had social fears,not lived a single day in my life as a religious person, because of autism spectrum disorder, OCD and anxiety. I should have done it better, if I could go back, is it too much? Did I do a social doodoo? Is my school book stack perfectly put in place?

[@MerriwynMoon]

I grew up with these ideas and now at 21, I have a whole host of mental problems that I'm working through with a therapist, one of the biggest being shame and self disgust. This type of thinking nearly killed me and it's sad to me that so many people fall into it. Religion is supposed to be freeing and comforting in a sense. This is not. This is abuse of self

[@xanderguyer7512]

Same here!!

[@petrathorsty3833]

Also, about the death thing? You're totally right, a lot of depressed teenagers say 'I didn't think I'd make it to __ age' and I wasn't depressed but I genuinely thought I'd never live past 21 because 'the good ones are picked first', and I figured God would've come and brought me 'home' by then. I literally built a whole life around what would sound like a nice story at my funeral seeing as God was gonna come get me soon, and then when I lived past 21 I was like 'but.. I didn't think I'd actually have to live the life I built?! What?!'

[@sk22-12]

That must be horrible. I've never lived it so I can't say how you muat feel but it must be really confusing and hurtful in some way... I hope you're better now

[@rachelcrimm5763]

same lol, never thought I would live to 20, but I am 21. I was extremely suisidal from 15-21, (only this summer getting out of it) most people in my life told me I was a model christian they looked up to me. Any time I started healing people would say “your falling away from God” or something similar, even the oldest people at church “looked up to my paul like faith”. Now that I am making my own choices for my own life (last maybe 6-8 months) I’ve been told I have lost God completely

[@kaorishimizu1373]

I grew up in a fundamentalist rapture obsessed household and I was told from childhood that the world would end before I turned 18. I wasn't really encouraged to plan for my future on earth but for my eternity in heaven. So I lived my childhood really thinking that life wasn't really for me to participate in. Fucked me up good. 10/10 don't recommend 🤣

[@bluexephosfan970]

Hey same! Although funnily enough when I was a teen and convinced I wouldnt make it past 21, I was am atheist, and discovering faith has been playing a role in helping me figure what I want out of life now that I've come to the realization I'm gonna have to life it lol

[@AWindy94]

"if you're sharing things that are anti-mental health, I have beef with you" Yes 👏Queen 👏

[@hatchet1013]

What you said about this being a life and death cult is spot on. I was raised as a Christian (not fundie) and I never understood this. Everyone is so ready to go be with Jesus. There are so many songs about how great it's going to be in heaven (you know, once we die) which I think naturally leads to the question of "Why don't Christians just un-alive themselves then, if endgame is to be in heaven with Jesus?" You gotta stay on earth and spread the word so you can store up riches in heaven. Like, really the only reasons we're given to be alive and exist is that 1. God put you in your mom's womb so you have to live because he has a plan and 2. you gotta get them gains so you can live a cushy life in heaven. Same with the whole "age of accountability" thing (which I don't even think is Biblical). If God is going to give kids a free pass up to a certain age, why even risk your kid growing up and denouncing God? It's really weird and everyone just goes with it and thinks its great and normal and correct. And it gives me the heebie jeebies

[@amycortez3289]

My parents have been chomping at the bit to "go meet Jesus" my entire life. I'm Southern Baptist and my entire childhood was basically a Revelations cult preparing for the end times. Of which everything in the news was a sign. 🙄

[@jacjac_jac]

Raised the same and always thought exactly as you just said. Led to debilitating depression & anxiety trying to live this out. And they have the gall to accuse people struggling with the desire to unalive with being sinful and proud.

[@MariaCJ]

It upsets me too b/c it is used to absolve them not doing anything to improve life here on earth for ppl who are not them

[@carolinemarie7495]

@@amycortez3289 same!!!!!

[@petrathorsty3833]

@@MariaCJ exactly, which I think is why so many Christians are so passive to climate change. It's like 'welp the rapture's gonna happen so why bother helping our world?!' it's bizarre

[@bigsiskrishere]

Recently saw a relative after years and years and she's in the middle of a mental breakdown---we were at a funeral and she kept saying "I can't wait until it's me" "Its going to be so good to see Jesus face to face in heaven" and my brain had huge red alarms going off. My sister tried to remind me it's just the cult we were raised with but it's scary to hear someone say that when they're already doing very poorly.

[@bretthansen3739]

I was raised in a religious household very similar to these two. It's hard to put into words how deeply damaging that life is. I don't think I woke up believing that I deserved to be alive once in my first 20 years of life until I left religion, and it was roughly another 20 years before the first time I really found out what it felt like to like myself (not coincidentally within a year of cutting my religious parents out of my life entirely). My old church used to hand out news letters from "Focus on the Family" (a hate group), and advertise their "parenting guides", which were manuals for how to abuse your children without getting them taken away by godless CPS agents so they could be raised by liberals and degenerates (my parents had to start listening those guides after the CPS call from a neighbor). They refused to get me help for what is almost certainly ADHD, and convinced me for years that the very clear symptoms were my own moral weakness and that getting help would be "rewarding bad behavior". It's so gross, thank you for talking about this channel. It feels good just to see that someone was horrified by what I lived through, just to make it clear that I didn't imagine how wrong it was. As far as feeling pity for these women, I certainly do. They are doing harm, but they were almost certainly emotionally abused into it.

[@sarah-zv8ld]

that's disgusting, how your parents treated you. I'm sorry that ever happened. I also totally understand the reassurance and validation from videos like this, because even though I don't view my experience as all that bad in comparison to other experiences I've heard about, it can still be hard to trust my own feelings about what happened. I wish you the best on your journey healing from this.

[@bretthansen3739]

@@sarah-zv8ld Thanks. I didn't think what happened to me was bad either. So many victims of abuse (especially physical) go though things that look so much worse from the outside that I thought for years I was silly for holding it against my parents that they were "strict", especially when terms like "tough love" are really popular to describe "light" (but constant) emotional abuse. (Edit: spelling)

[@mxc_00]

This is so spot on, and I got chills at how eerily similar my story is to this piece of yours. Granted, I’m only 23 now and left it all about 3 years ago… but it’s already felt like a lifetime. While I also feel bitterness and pity and slight anger towards these women for sharing such harmful tactics, I must be honest in realizing I once said much of the same things because I too was unknowingly abused into it all.

[@cobblegen1204]

I looked up the group you listed on a fact checker, and they are the textbook example of a Christian fascist group. They appeared to have every horrible policy advocacy there is. Groups that promote child abuse should be shut down.

[@amikochapman6689]

I've always wondered, if our hearts are "desperately sick" and can't be trusted, how can you be sure that your trusting God isn't another one of your heart's delusions? In all fairness, man wrote the bible, even if it was with "God's help." How can we be sure that man's own heart wasn't put into the Bible, even unintentionally?

[@asdfghjklkjhg]

Great point, made even greater by the fact that humans have numerous times deliberately altered the Bible to fit their political agenda. The scripture these girls hold as the truth, is nothing but a poor outcome of the 'Chinese telephone'. Only few things hold true through the many edits and versions, one of the most prevalent being love thy neighbour. We should probably focus on that then. 😅

[@user-mv5zt8qd9l]

"The Bible is factual and true and couldn't possibly have been misconstrued over the last 2 millennia nor influenced by the writer's own bias, trust"

[@shanachayadavison5857]

I’m a Orthodox Jew who definitely believes in Gd and I couldn’t get THREE SECONDS into the Girl Defined video before I cried, “what?!” The first line broke me. THE FIRST LINE. Does the Lord want you to be your true self? You know, the one called “the Supreme Being” you profess to believe CREATED THAT TRUE SELF?! Like… yes. Obviously yes. Maybe Christians view it differently than Jews but like… Gd created everything… including flaws… and also therapists… which these girls obviously need because they’re clearly very, very detached from reality… SIDENOTE: It’s fine to me if you are atheist, agnostic, don’t believe in organized religion, etc. I’m saying this in response to these women who clearly believe in Gd (or at least they profess to to further their very deluded agenda.)

[@Sapphykins]

I was raised in the church of England, and American evangelical Christianity might as well be a different religion entirely for all the similarities it has to what I was taught. Anglicanism isn't perfect, but it's at least recognisable as the same thing Jesus taught, unlike the poison these two peddle. Outside of girl defined's echo chamber, every Christian i know would agree with you

[@Magdalenasfears]

I was raised catholic (now I believe in the possibility of everything, yet I'm a science major and don't follow any religion, but I'm still officially Irish Catholic lol), and I was taught and believe similar to you. Gd gave us freewill and intelligence and problem solving. It's the words of men that make things so strict. For example, before WWII the Bible never mentioned homosexuality. The passage people like to use used to say "a man shall not lay with a boy" (which was pretty common in societies like ancient Greece and Rome), not a "man shall not lay with a man". They changed it because we lost so many people during the wars. Also stuff like abortion. Not in the Bible. Bible basically says you're not a person until you breathe, and that if you cause UNWANTED harm to a fetus you pay a fine, but if you harm the mother, you get punished the same way you hurt her. She loses an eye, so do you. She dies, so do you. I'm fine with any religion (or none), as long as you don't push your views on others! And these people cherry pick the Bible, or don't read it at all, just listen to what their leaders tell them.

[@2121bassplayer]

I grew up gay and Christian, and spent some time in fundie communities, and one of the things that got me out of this kind of thinking was the thought that in theory, Gd made me the way I am, and wouldn't it be cruel for them to make me like this, intending for me to spend my whole life miserably fighting against the personality and tendencies I was born with? What kind of god does that? So I came to the conclusion that Gd is either different than I was told, or else they're not worth worshipping (I'm leaning towards the former lol).

[@highlandcheesestick8402]

I feel bad for their hypocrisy. It's obvious they could understand verses due to their sense, reason, and intellect- yet they say their religion rejects the use of it. Growing up religious and taught that knowledge is a form of worship towards God, I hate to see anti-intellectualism done in the name of religion.

[@kat4923]

I'm so stupid... I read "Gd" as "girl defined". Anyway, I completely agree with you. I'm mad that these people uses religion as an excuse to be manipulative and toxic.

[@4sunsetgirl]

16:42 Thank you for voicing that! The constant regulation of self is exhausting! The idea that your heart is "wicked" means you can fully never trust your own thoughts and feelings. When I was in a church like this I had no sense of identity, zero boundaries, and felt ashamed for being alive. It leaves you so vulnerable and tries to convince you that feeling this bad is normal because you are a "sinner". Life is so much better away from these mentalities. Keep up the good work!

[@chrisbcakes4949]

As a Christian, the sentiments that those two cookoos keep pedaling terrifies me. "Life in all its fullness" is what Jesus came to bring us, not a promise that we shed "human bonds" or whatever she said. You are fearfully and wonderfully made, including your heart and including your brain. 🧠

[@rebecaa7482]

Yes! Thank you! 👏🏻 I'm a Christian too and I agree with you.

[@Butterflier00]

people forget that Jesus partied...like his first miracle was making sure that the party went on and WAS POPPIN.

[@danielasaldivia2685]

❤❤❤❤

[@ceciliaramos2280]

@@Butterflier00 Jesus turning the water into wine at the wedding had absolutely nothing to do with him keeping the “party poppin”. Don’t talk about the Bible until you learn how to interpret it correctly.

[@kayleematthews1658]

@@ceciliaramos2280 literally everyone interprets the bible differently, there is no such thing as a "correct" interpretation, if there was all Christians would agree on that one interpretation, which they obviously don't.

[@KariAnnRutushin]

My 15yr old self needed someone in my life with your voice or reason so badly Micky! All the women in my world at that time we’re pretty much in step with how girl defined thinks. You’re absolutely on point! Most of my guilt and lack of self worth came from the church I grew up in.

[@hiraethsystem3001]

I was raised fundamentalist with a lot of rhetoric like this, and I developed scrupulosity (morality-based OCD) really early in my life--like, I've been performing compulsions to relieve my religious obsessions since I can remember. I've been in therapy for *five fucking years* now and I still struggle with it, even after leaving the church as a whole. And that's why I have no tolerance for the idea that we should just let them believe what they believe and leave well enough alone. Girl Defined and other ministries like theirs were what I consumed day in and day out for the first nineteen years of my life, and now I have a whole host of mental illnesses, including scrupulosity that just won't quit. My mental illness doesn't care that I don't believe in God. It doesn't matter to my trauma that I don't think Hell is real. I still have flashbacks and panic attacks every single day because I refuse to perform religious compulsions for a religion I don't even follow anymore. I have hope for recovery, but this will still probably be messing with me in some way for the rest of my life. The damage is real.

[@kasia3582]

Best wishes to you and your healing. You got this.

[@viridianacortes9642]

You got this. I believe in you. I know you are strong and you will eventually heal from this.

[@jesswojmw]

Sending Best wishes for you healing journey and strength for those days when you feel like you aren’t progressing.

[@Arlothed1no]

Suddenly everything makes sense. Even after leaving Christianity, I still feel the anxiety of disobeying the bible. I'm a hellenistic pagan now. I don't even believe in the bible but I still get anxiety from disobeying it. I've been a lot more accepting of myself and confident since I chose to embrace hellenism and spirituality because feeling your emotions is encouraged.

[@dahliacheung6020]

That really sucks and I'm sorry youre dealing with this. The way in which the Bible was translated into English was iffy/harmful in some if not many ways and the way it's cherry picked and taught is often evergreen worse. Jesus, while he was alive in the Bible was quoted saying that he came to not to abolish the law but to fulfill it. This is because he knew that so many people defined themselves and lived their lives by the Jewish law of the old testament and so he was like, if you want to follow that, fine. But for everyone else, the old testament laws no longer apply for one to be right with God. And so Jesus hung out with tax collectors and prostitutes and lepers and he didn't judge them. Of course then Paul, a very religious Jewish man, came along and wrote huge sections of the New Testament in which he reintroduced a kind of legalistic view of laws he thought Christians should abide by. Over time more and more rules have been added and what was a movement of love and humility and sharing and caring became what I consider the most dangerous and harmful religion in history. I definitely think that Jesus, as he was written about and described in the Bible would be horrified and saddened by the Christian religion. It makes me upset and sad that you and so many other have suffered trauma from being involved Christianity, trauma that continues to affect you. Thats heartbreaking and I wish you the best and hope things get easier for you.

[@PumpkinLeaLeas]

I've been pagan for 23 years but I still carried fear around Christianity and christian beliefs. Although I was never Christian myself, my Grandma was. She told me that if I didn't believe in Jesus, my soul would shrivel up and rot like my body when I died. At 8. Interestingly, I've always detested crosses (crucifix).

[@kafkanaut_apothecary]

Hey! I’m a former Christian turned Hellenistic pagan too! Also a gray ace (love your icon).

[@Arlothed1no]

@@kafkanaut_apothecary 💜💜💜

[@dr.gwendolyncarter]

Ditto on the no hate watching! The only time I view that type of content is through commentary. Ditto on the Brenda (God is Grey) and Jen (Fundie Fridays) endorsement! I love their content, too!

[@kellyalves756]

Fundie Fridays is fantastic.

[@shaunacorrigan9372]

I worked in assisted living for 10+ years and one of the things I would continuously reiterate to my staff and coworkers when dealing with residents with memory issues was that we can't force them into *our* reality, we have to step into *their* reality. This is maybe most obvious in that situation, but I definitely feel like it applies when interacting with all people. You're always going to have stronger, richer, and more rewarding relationships when you acknowledge and try to understand and empathize with the experience of others

[@simplybet8104]

18:27 in Philippians 1 Paul basically says he wishes he were dead and for most of my life I didn't see any problem with it. Once I was in a healthy place and I reread Philippians I finally realized "oh, this is extremely unhealthy".

[@Sapphykins]

I mean tbf that pretty much sums up everything Paul ever wrote.

[@MjStslker]

I used to really relate to that back when I was really religious and super depressed.

[@TiaGems]

I love how they start out this video by saying that this is their own personal truths, and then go on to say that following our hearts and our own truths is bad and sinful

[@nollsc]

The crossover between Mickey and Jen is so sweet... Hope we get to see a collab at some point! 😍

[@amycortez3289]

That would be AMAZING!

[@kathrynweeks7595]

I hope so too 🙂

[@aromaofhope]

It IS exhausting living like that. I did it for over 30 years and never found true peace of mind, in spite of a deep "spiritual walk." And now I'm working through the aftermath. (Your facial expressions are priceless, btw.)

[@Thatgeekycanadian]

As a Christian (albeit a veryyyy liberal one but I was originally like them) the mental gymnastics these two are doing to make Bible verses fit their weird non-biblically based opinions is….so freaking weird…

[@bugspray6662]

I'm not a theist now, but I grew up in a very, very conservative Christian environment. Even Christian schools. I tried really hard to do the mental gymnastics, but it like hurt my head. It felt like a psychological pressure cooker.

[@gymnasticsgirlie0647]

To be honest though, it's possible they are not doing mental gymnastics. A lot of stuff in the Bible is contradictory; it is rampant with discriminatory ideals but apparently Jesus loved everyone, condemns murder but full of human sacrifice, got out of Egypt to escape slavery but then held slaves themselves, etc. The key to looking at the Bible is to not look at it like G-d wrote it. That's it. That's the key. Once you accept that imperfect humans wrote it, you will find yourself able to take what is helpful and leave the rest. But trying to look at the Bible as if it is 100% truthful and even meant to be taken 100% literally at all, due to believing that G-d wrote it, will only lead you down a path of this mental gymnastics. A lot of the things that happened in the Bible cannot be justified without compromising morals, and that's ok.

[@rowan-priince1860]

The face you made when she said “I am the creature” was amazing. Thanks for speaking out against this rhetoric. They’re teaching what destroyed my mental health as a child and onward.

[@stephaniewebb6827]

As someone who grew up in the same kind of environment that Girl Defined is also living in, I had a lot of anxiety, depression, self-loathing for many years. We were told it was "Christ-esteem" and not to call it "self-esteem" because that was focused on us instead of Christ. I was miserable and just "surviving" in life. I would pray and read my Bible to get help. But it wasn't until I sought out therapy and life coaching and other things like meditation and doing affirmations, etc,that I really started to grow. So while I completely understand why they believe this, I also know it keeps many of us in mental health hell. Thanks for your videos, Mickey! You are awesome 👌

[@frozenraspberries1552]

YOU'RE SO RIGHT on the passive suicidal ideation. One of the songs we used to sing in church went like: " All I know is I'm not home yet .This is not where I belong. Take this world and give me Jesus. This is not where I belong"

[@hannahm8681]

You know what else must also be exhausting? CONSTANTLY hating yourself and degrading yourself. The language they use to describe themselves is just so self loathing and hateful. I can’t imagine living with that constantly on your mind. Seems like an extremely unhealthy mindset to have.

[@sierramobley8962]

i have obsessive compulsive disorder and it’s teachings like “take every thought captive” that pushed me to the brink of suicide and i still to this day struggle not to place a huge level of importance on every thought that passes through my head 😬 so to this day, nearly 8 years after my reconstruction, i still feel the need to fight my own thoughts every now and then bc i’m afraid that certain thoughts might bring bad things upon me or my loved ones even though i know that’s not true 🙃 you’re right about how dangerous this is and it’s so cathartic to see a professional address it and say out loud that it’s wrong to treat people that way

[@bigpuppa7789]

🌈 As a child, I used to be terrified alone in my room at night when a plane flew over my room. I thought the rapture was coming and I was still here. I would sometimes get up and check my parents were still snoring. When I grew up and realized that what I was was a lesbian at like 12-13, I realized that the same group that never explicitly told me I would go with them in their rapture, that preaches love and acceptance, would definitely not love or accept me. Its frustrating and saddening that Girl Defined is perpetuating that type of hate and fear on an international platform, to people of all ages. 🌺💙🌈

[@justnothing2035]

oh damn i feel you... Before i decided to leave christianity I used to have literal nightmares multiple times a week about jesus's second coming and me being left behind. There was always this story being told in our church of a man who wakes up to find out his family is gone and the world is ending, christians everywhere disappearing and the non-believers being left on earth. Coming out as queer definitely made me want to leave the religion even more, so I totally get you. Sorry for the lenghty comment but I wish you all the best in the future. Blessed be ^^

[@Kourinthia]

Watching this video made me realise 1. What caused my OCD, 2. I have religious trauma, 3. Why my OCD has become increasingly more manageable the longer I am out of the church

[@VoltieBird]

This has nothing to do with the video but I love how Mickey says banana pancakes, I say it too and it feels like being seen XD

[@shy9130]

The part about constantly policing your thoughts and feelings hit me hard! Growing up in a high-demand religion, in Jr High (12 years old-a child) I would wear a rubber band around my wrist and snap it when I had what I considered to be an ‘un-virtuous’ thought. Thinking about that now makes me emotional. This rhetoric is not okay-especially for young, impressionable, vulnerable girls. Thank you for addressing that.

[@rachel_sj]

Omg…I clicked on the notification for this video so fast! I’m loving everyone on KZbin who are breaking down GD’s videos (among others) and I really wished this type of content was around 7-9 years ago when I was dealing with the toxic mess of deconverting and the years-long process that entailed to come out of it and heal. It gives me hope again since I’m diving back into the toxic sludge to confront the underpinnings of how I’m looking at myself now after being diagnosed as Autistic and having ADHD (and I did the same years ago when diagnosed with Depression and Anxiety, lots of fun there…) Please keep up the great work!! ❤️💕🥰

[@MickeyAtkins]

Wholeheartedly agree! I wish someone would have made content like this for me when I was deep in the kool aid too! I’m glad you’re finding it helpful and I’m sending you all the neurodivergent love 💕

[@rachel_sj]

@@MickeyAtkins Thank you so much for your love, support and putting yourself through GD’s videos to provide a much-needed voice of sanity!! I find it funny/interesting, coming from a Fundamentalist Christian background that, right off the bat, there’s an immediate communication issue regarding the word “truth” in GD’s video and your reaction. In GD’s world, “truth” or “Truth” (with a capital T) is almost always referred to the Gospel Truth and other scriptures found in the Bible (the cherry picking does help to form whatever truth you want but *has to be aligned* with your church leaders and community). There’s no such thing as “personal truth” unless it’s lined up with the Bible and there’s pretty much no concept of a sense of self outside of God/Religion and it’s seen as prideful and sinful to be proud (let alone acknowledge) of any truth meaningful to you because Truth is supposed to be absolute and if we allow for everyone else’s truths, then that means that Truth is relative and that might mean that the Gospel might not be True. It’s a pretty insane and serious slippery slope, I know and I causes *a lot* of confusion and damage for people leaving those environments. Also, a lot of what you said regarding the mental effects of this kind of “teaching” was spot on and *very* relatable, btw. Sorry for the long reply but I thought I should help you clarify what GD is taking about…

[@rozalinenelhams8307]

I wish it was around for me to.

[@CarloGonzalezTV]

“We’re not talking about Christians, we’re talking about these people” I’m high, and this made me laugh so hard. I obviously know what you meant, but my mind went to, “theyre not Christians”😭

[@BirdMarcel98]

I mean, ur not wrong 😂😂 Jesus was a liberal, so fundies are definitely NOT christians

[@CarloGonzalezTV]

@@BirdMarcel98 🗣✨✨✨

[@vampkidzukin]

fave comment, so good

[@joshuabuchanan1141]

Nope they're fundamentalists, I cannot stand fundamentalists due to how problematic they are

[@redhead3322]

I'm totally adopting the "this drives me banana pancakes!!!!!"

[@speckofdignity2487]

All I can think of when I hear that is the stuffed dog I had as a kid named Banana Pancake 😂 (I have no idea where the name came from, that was my siblings’ doing)

[@Abbydoesstuff94]

I've seen a few fellow Christians with OCD in the comments here, so I thought I would recommend the book The Sin of Certainty by Peter Enns, which is a book that allowed me to return to Christianity without triggering my OCD and helped me unlearn things I had learned growing up within the Jehovahs Witnesses.

[@jordanweber3381]

As someone who has OCD and rejected Christianity a couple years ago, though I have no interest in returning to it at this point in time, I appreciate you sharing this a lot. 💛

[@Abbydoesstuff94]

@@jordanweber3381 I hope you have a peaceful, joyful day! 😊 OCD really sucks sometimes but I have full belief in our ability to live alongside it.

[@hannahclaire4683]

The Sin of Certainty brought me so much comfort and really helped me evolve in my faith to a point where it affirmed and made sense to me! I recommend it to all of my deconstructing Christian buddies!

[@feliciam1091]

I just "converted" from a fundamentalist (I was in a cult) to a progressive Christian after I came out as panlesbian. I no longer see God as a "punisher ", but as a loving parent. I also no longer think They are up there sending anyone who isn't religious to hell- I believe hell is reserved for people who intentionally do large scale harm to others if it exists at all. I am start to live my best life and I can confirm that the evidence Mickey was talking about (those who are religious and have a secure attachment to God have joy added to their life) is true. And, as a Christian, I believe that goes for any religious belief, not just my own. Thank you, Mickey, for all you're doing! I wish I was aware of content similar to this when I was a teenager/young adult wondering why my life, which was supposed to be great because Jesus, was so hard. I hope you take this in the way it's meant when I say I genuinely believe you are doing God's work

[@cobblegen1204]

I am delighted to hear that your life got better. People like Christian and Bethany are in a cult of suffering. They teach you to love pain, and that to reject the miserable existence they prescribe you is sin. Fundamentalism has caused so much suffering that it is tragic. I can only hope more people can get out like you have.

[@nataliegiles2554]

Congratulations on your coming out and leaving the cult! I wish you well

[@feliciam1091]

@@nataliegiles2554 Thank you!☺

[@dinosaur___7209]

Pan lesbian??

[@feliciam1091]

@@dinosaur___7209 It's basically pansexual- I am attracted to all genders. I call myself panlesbian because 1) all sapphic people used to be considered lesbians- whether they were lesbians, bilesbians, etc.- and I reclaim that as a historical connection to other women. 2) I am more attracted to women than to people of other genders, but I am still attracted to all genders, so the lesbian label feels right for me.

[@roeliethegoat]

The whole 'your heart is deceitful' is so harmful. While making you believe its actually awesome to not trust your instinct. I lived this. I'm so glad I trust myself and my feelings now, but it took SO long. You tell 'em.

[@actingqween]

I had my first depressive episode when I was nine years old. I lived in the Bible belt, and, while I was part of a very liberal, progressive Christian church that made no attempt to shame me, a girl in my fifth grade class once said that people who "kill themselves go to Hell". I was not at my questioning phase for my faith yet, and hearing that was very damaging to me. That girl didn't know that I had been experiencing suicidal ideation for some time, or that hearing that terrified me to the point that I felt that I couldn't express those feelings to anyone for fear of being rejected and abandoned. I am grateful that my mother noticed the warning signs and symptoms of depression, but I didn't fully disclose those feelings to my therapist for, at least, two years. To sum up, you don't know how the things you say might affect someone else. I am prone to double depression, dysthymia, high anxiety, and I have combined ADHD. I also have an extended relative who committed suicide. I was a high risk for suicide then, and I am lucky that I got the help and resources that I needed, because otherwise, I would not be here today.

[@niconico486]

As a young adult raised Christian; Sweet Mother of Christ, I never realised that mentality is the reason I'm so obsessed with perfectionism and questioning my actions and feelings 24/7 until you pointed it out! It makes! So much! Sense! It may sound dumb, but I just never considered it before? Darn. Today is a good day. Thank you.

[@finnilyenough]

When I was a kid my mother told me that anything "self" was evil. Self respect, self esteem, self love 😒 now I'm grown and I don't even know who I am

[@nesser52]

Same, sending you strength and support to tune on authentic path you're happy with ✨

[@HappyKat-wc4ld]

Me too :( it's ridiculous because we're taught the golden rule is "love your neighbor as yourself." The assumption there is that you already love yourself

[@joshuaokoro-sokoh2993]

16:01 I wonder if they know that's the song that David wrote as a lamentation for that time he impregnated another man's wife and killed the man to cover up for his misdeed. Clearly that's an example of how the heart is deceitful above all else.

[@arenavidoesmakeup7169]

i love that you're reacting to this type of thing, i think people who weren't raised in fundie churches don't understand the seriousness of the situation. i was raised in fundie evangelical church and left when i was about 16-17. i am almost 21 and have only recently discovered that i can fully feel emotions, feel them all the way through my body, and doing so allows me to ACTUALLY work through my life instead of self medicating with a doctrine that instructs me to push away these feelings. there was so much emphasis on pushing away your feelings though christ who strengthens you. "if he brought you to it he'll bring you through it", but he never brought me through it. i did, i brought me through it. and i deserve to celebrate myself and my full range of emotions without stuffing it down to please god. at this point i'm ranting, but fuck the message of girl defined. i have absolutely no sympathy for women who put young girls at risk like this.

[@petrathorsty3833]

I could've written this myself, I swear. I was a pastor's kid and didn't leave Christianity until a year ago, and I didn't realize how much I was suppressing my feelings until I had to feel them all the time 😅 I will say though, I feel a level of sympathy for them because my guess is that they're deeply indoctrinated (brainwashed) and have never known anything other than the messages of shame and self-denial they now actively teach others. I look at them and I see who I could've become if I hadn't stopped drinking the Christian cool-aid. Idk, I don't agree with what they do, I think it's actively harmful, but I definitely pity them

[@jacjac_jac]

@@petrathorsty3833 I don't know which is worse - to be a victim of brainwashing, or to be aware that what you're saying is horse shit and peddling it anyway. I've seen both, and finally had enough and left.

[@hope1037-t1x]

" 'if he brought you to it he'll bring you through it' but he never brought me through it". I relate to this so much. Whenever I was dealing with stuff growing up my mom just told me to pray about it and it led to feelings of inadequancy because nothing ever changed so I assumed I wasn't praying well enough or wasn't close enough to God.

[@petrathorsty3833]

@@jacjac_jac I think to know that you're peddling horse shit is so much worse. When you're brainwashed you don't know any better, but if you know better and do it anyway that's actively choosing to spiritually abuse people 😬

[@jacjac_jac]

@@petrathorsty3833 mm yea I think you're right

[@tacticalmisandrist]

“And so Jesus came to.. earth er whatever-to save us-because he loved us, I mean like, that’s kinda nice. Ya know like that seems like a nice thing to do.” -Mickey, 2021

[@Jimmiwashere]

I do agree the speculation on these folks (GD, P&M) private lives gets seriously out of hand, but I also don't think happy people have to spend as much time telling you how happy and good their lives are as these people do.

[@pocketsizeforyourtravelcon3325]

“Today we’re talking about Girl Defined because they suck” 😂😂😂☠️ you’re not wrong! Thank you for posting this. I grew up Christian but not fundie but I still experienced many of these issues within our denomination (Methodist) including homophobia, misogyny, and purity culture, and working with a non secular therapist really helped me work through the religious trauma.

[@joshuabuchanan1141]

Fundamentalists in general absolutely do suck

[@HeyItsmeImAlex]

I’m slowly unlearning the lessons by going therapy and self learning that my Catholic upbringings have tought me. My parents /family aren’t even religious but I still got the message that I had to do exactly what my family was doing and that I had to do it a certain way. I tried but it obviously didn’t worked out and now as a 30 ish person I’m working out on who I am and what I want and it’s a very difficult road to be on. I wouldn’t want to wish that to my worst enemy.

[@boofdahpoo]

Girl, SAME. I grew up in a strict Catholic family, which was one of the reasons I ended up in a terrible marriage at too young of an age, before I had myself, my career aspirations, and my entire LIFE figured out. Years later, I've ditched both the bad husband and the religion and now have a meaningful and fulfilling second marriage with two kids, a good job, and agnostic contentedness in knowing that it *just ain't possible* to know everything about how the universe began.

[@rebeccaknight5074]

I have made a solemn vow… to never watch their channel directly, only ever through criticism and discussion videos on how problematic they are. Thank you for contributing to this! Have my subscribe for the accurate, 1min in eye roll! 🙄

[@freyaodinsdottir2207]

Firstly, I don't really consider myself a Christian anymore -- women like this are a big reason why I lost my faith in it. I'm a Gnostic and there's a phrase -- "Know thyself" that I keep close to my heart. But I sure did read the Bible plenty as a kid and I know scripture. Whatever these two are reading, it certainly isn't the Bible because talk about Romans 10:3 lmfao. It just baffles me that these two talk about how "being true to yourself" is about these concepts and thinking that God, theoretically, doesn't want these things because it's selfish or some shit like that. But there's always something that sticks to me "God helps those who helps themselves" and that's a motif that pops up in the bible several times that we need to act on our own agency and will, not just expect anything different. They talk the talk, but they clearly don't walk the walk; being Christian doesn't completely revolve around scripture, no, if you're Christian, you must act like Christ and do good in the world like help others and focus on helping those less fortunate and your family, not talk down to people like these two do. It's almost bordering on genuine idolatry how these two preach this crap, pander out their books, and don't do anything with their viewership and follower base to help those that aren't as fortunate as them. I mean, that's not being true to themselves by what God wants, that's just a bunch of self-important, self-righteous jargon that the Bible warns about constantly, but I guess they miss that bit, too. And we know that it actually helps us feel better about ourselves by doing random acts of kindness and/or taking care of another thing (whether it'd be a pet, plant, or person) does help us feel better about ourselves. I see that as a big self-esteem boost and being true to ourselves. But yeah, it amazes me how self-obsessed and self-important these two are and they can't take a shrivel of criticism. If they think the secular side of social media and culture is free of naming and shaming, man, they have been out of the loop. We do that plenty, lmao.

[@mickey-pl5nd]

This is exactly my thought process. People like these are why I lost my faith in Christianity and religion in general. Thank you for sharing.

[@nightnday146]

this is such a good comment on this topic. Hope you are having a good day, stay safe.

[@mica8701]

and i feel like when they DO actually get off their asses and give aid, it's always a stealth conversion mission. i've read quite a few accounts about christian missionaries in impoverished countries withholding their aid unless the indigenous people they were there to "help" participated in christian worship or converted. and just seeing in general how these fundie christians hound anyone who seems in a vulnerable mindset so they can evangelize to them, i really dont have it in me to doubt it

[@TMNg0438]

There is a lowkey conversion therapy group I used to be part of called "Strength in Weakness". It essentially advocated for one to "give their sexual desires" to God. They were led by those within the "same sex attracted" community. Their founder created a movie called "Finding Guy" that is on youtube. I am a social worker and it was through social work as well as recognizing I was queer and there was nothing wrong with that, that made me realize how toxic the group was and helped me make the decision to leave. I'd be really interested how you'd react to conversion therapy groups that don't directly use physically harmful practices but basically Girl defined based tactics. I used to police my thoughts whenever I was attracted to another female and was encouraged to pray about it immediately. Man, times I hope never to return to

[@cynthialewis3408]

I am a former fundamentalist evangelical Christian, and that first verse from Jeremiah also brings me back to the times when my elders and deacons and my dad and just every male in my life would tell me to not listen to my intuition when I thought that something was wrong. I would also hear in women’s devotionals or Bible studies to not listen to my intuition or my heart but to instead seek out what the word of God or those who are devout Christians think. It’s totally invalidating and that’s part of why it’s so hard for people like me who sort of come to the light after being brought up in a fundamentalist religion to then break free of that and to start listening to our intuition again.

[@vintagearisen]

I mean it's all basically "No, don't listen to YOUR heart and reason and intuition, listen to MINE."

[@HappyKat-wc4ld]

I learned this too. It's horribly sad because our intuition is so often correct and it's there to protect us. If you're a Christian, your "intuition" could be seen as the Holy Spirit guiding you. I could have avoided a lot of pain in my life if I was able to trust my intuition

[@cinnamonroll_ofdeath]

My dad tried to use that scripture to tell me that I was in love with a guy friend of mine. I'm aromantic. But apparently since the heart is deceitful, I don't know my heart, so I can't know that I'm not in love with this boy.

[@xHarpyx]

The pfffffft at 7:50 has me rolling in giggles. Mickey, you are a treasure! I feel your rage and it tickles me so, knowing I’m not alone. I react much the same way, please don’t take offense. You’re awesome.

[@carenrose6002]

Okay, about 16:01 ... Psalm 51 has nothing to do with "God doesn't want me to embrace what I think about my truest self." David wrote Psalm 51 after his "incident" with Bathsheba. That means it's about "I raped a woman and murdered her husband, and that was wrong." For those not familiar with that story, here's a rundown. David, who is the king at this time, is out on his roof one afternoon, and he sees this beautiful woman bathing. (She may or may not have been naked, it's not that clear - was he spying on her in what should have been a private moment, or was she washing her hands or feet in a public place?) David sends people to find out her identity. They tell him - including the fact that she's married to Uriah, an important warrior in David's army. David knows her husband has been away in battle. So he sends messengers to "take her" and bring her to him so he can "lay with" her. A little while later, she sends word to David that she's now pregnant. David summons Uriah, her husband, and says "why don't you go home and sleep with your wife?" He refuses, basically saying "the rest of the soldiers are out camping in an open field, why should I leave them to go home and eat, drink, and sleep with my wife?" So David gets him drunk, but he still doesn't go home. So in the morning, David has Uriah deliver a message to the commander of the army. The message - the commander should put Uriah right on the front line of the fiercest battle and then have all the other soldiers around him withdraw, leaving him to be killed. Which he does. And then, once Bathsheba's mourning period for her husband was over (before she had given birth, so not very long), David takes her and marries her - making her his seventh wife. So God sends Nathan, a prophet, to David, to tell him a story. There's a rich man who had tons of sheep and livestock, and a poor man with nothing but one lamb who is so loved by him and his family that it's "like a daughter to him." A traveler comes to visit the rich man, and instead of taking one of his own many, many sheep, he takes the poor man's lamb and gives it to the traveler to eat. David is outraged! "That man deserves to die!" And Nathan replies, "you are that man." Then Psalm 51 starts with this: "a psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came to him, after he went to Bathsheba." And David says something like "I have done an incredibly evil thing, and my spirit and heart are broken. Please be merciful to me, and cleanse my heart."

[@lissaquon607]

Pfft what's context got to do with ANYTHING?

[@Arosukir6]

Question about this, though maybe it'll be addressed later by Kristen and Bethany: if you don't live your truth, is that not the same as lying? And isn't lying a sin? So if someone pretends they're not gay, or that they don't enjoy sex at all, or that they like to dress modestly, when really none of those things are true, are they not sinning? Or do they believe that God goes for a "fake it 'till you make it" kind of idea? Like, "pretend to be something you're not for long enough and God will make it true for you." Also: ladies! K&B. Ma'ams. I don't get why folks need to explain this to you, but "living your truth" and "spending all your time telling *other* people what their truth should be" are two completely different things. You both literally preach the latter.

[@josephinedykstra3383]

If you look at ex-gay literature, they say God is exactly going for a "fake it till you make it" attitude toward heterosexuality. Or, being gay isn't a sin, but having gay sex is, so you should be celibate until "God gives you the grace" to feel heterosexual attraction. Of course, you should constantly check to see whether you have been given that grace....

[@hiraethsystem3001]

Ex-fundie here: the dominant approach is fake it til you make it, but in the church they don't call it that, and if you ask about it, you'll be in trouble. If you don't believe the things you're living, that's a sin, and you have to be faithful enough to trust God to change your beliefs. I was taught in conversion therapy that I had to keep confessing my gay thoughts and attractions to my spiritual leaders, and eventually if I had enough patience and enough faith that God would change my attractions, He would. So they (conveniently) don't think of it as lying; it's instead exactly what K&B are talking about, living God's truth instead of your own.

[@Fabala827]

20:15 fr though, when I was a very young child with anxiety (about 7-8), I had heard so much about how amazing God & heaven would be and how everything was beautiful and would be perfect with no pain, I actually WAS passively s****dal. I was so scared and in so much pain all the time that I honestly thought, “Well, if heaven is so great, and I’m petrified of dying (the act thereof, physically, not the aftermath), wouldn’t it be better to just get it over with so I can stop being scared & just go be happy forever?” At SEVEN!! It’s alarming how incredibly damaging things like this can get when you’re phrasing them like they do….

[@60wattmoon]

"When I speak MY truth it's not popular! Play by your own rules, people!" has such "Mum! Mum! They did it, too! Mum!" energy.

[@cinnamonroll_ofdeath]

Omg. Yes. Yes it does. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@h4ley3lder]

oh my god….. this is why i love your channel. when you mentioned that policing your own thoughts/emotions/physical sensations can lead to compulsions, something just CLICKED in my head and created a connection i’d never thought about before. growing up, i was raised “christian”, but it was 110% fear based (is any religion not fear based mehhhidkbutanyway) and in that, i consistently felt like i was sinning. literally by just existing. all the while, i struggled with a lot of compulsive thoughts/ocd tendencies. presently, i don’t struggle with either of those things. i’ve always wondered where those ocd tendencies went and assumed i just grew out of them, but you saying what you did about that connection just made it click. i genuinely believe religion heavily contributed. thank you so so much for your commentary! i wish i’d had it as a struggling teen.

[@samn2695]

I love that u said it drives u banana pancakes. I work with kids so not only can I not swear I can’t say things like dang and stupid and pissed so I will be using the phrase banana pancakes because it’s great

[@DragonflyandTheWolf]

I'm pausing at 13:51 at your mention of OCD because I got REALLY excited. When I was in middle school, I developed OCD, but it would be YEARS before I knew it was OCD. It was entirely religion based. I had to say a prayer in my head over and over and over again because I was afraid if I wasn't praying my thoughts would wander to something sinful and invite the devil in. I was terrified of going to sleep because I thought in sleep I would lose control over my thought process and it would happen. I still sometimes have the compulsion to say this prayer, and when it comes I can't stop saying it until it "feels" right in my soul. As an adult I once tried to open up to my mom about it, and when I told her my OCD was praying non stop, she was actually delighted and said, "what's wrong with that?" So thank you so much for talking about how this kind of ideology can affect OCD. It was deeply validating.

[@lesliesheppard6112]

I really wish that there had been someone like you out there when I was a kid growing up in this kind of toxic fundamentalism. Thank you for putting this content out here where it’s free and anyone can access it. Hopefully you’ll be able to help some other young people who are growing up who need someone to tell them, this isn’t normal and it’s okay if you don’t agree with toxic people.

[@jadiepoodles]

Agree Mickey! I once heard from a pastor who was questioned about things that don't sir right with someone during a service and I loved his response. He said that when going to church and receiving a message, it's like eating an apple. You eat whats good (feels right to you) and spit out the pips.

[@hope1037-t1x]

It's so interesting to hear your perspective as someone outside the Christian community. Most of what they were talking about is what I was taught growing up (though framed in a somewhat less extreme way). I thought it was normal/ what every "true" Christian believed. As a result of that whole mess, I'm still figuring out if I'm done with Christianity all together or just with the type of church I grew up in. And what you were saying about how nobody who thinks this way is living their best life is really eye opening for me. I always thought I just hadn't matured spiritually enough yet to be okay with living like that but maybe everyone around me was just pretending too.

[@pearl_b]

yassss @ the “if you’re sharing things that are anti mental health I have beef with you.” As a Christian who’s been going through deconstruction and realizing I was raised in what can be classified as a cult… I was raised with so many similar things and it was so so damaging for my development and sense of self. Also DEFINITELY set me up to be controlled and abused, and stay in those situations. So happy I got out.

[@nursebridgie]

Go OFF!!! Also, your faces really are priceless lol keep doing what you’re doing! 😍

[@tommiegnosis]

Every video I watch of yours I'm like YES! I have several mental health disorders and being hyper vigilant is so toxic. I grew up and haved lived most on my life in fight, flight, and freeze mode due to childhood traumas and if I lived hyper vigilant I don't leave my home. I've done so much work to acknowledge understand, accept, and try to work on unhealthy behaviors and thoughts so I can grow as a person. This is why I'm atheist. Nothing against the few people who actually use religion in a healthy way, like Steph Curry and his family or Sierra Shultzie, but the majority use it as a form of control and manipulation like these women and it's so dangerous.

[@rebeccawiens4224]

We need a Mickey Atkins and God is Grey collab.

[@Butterflier00]

*imagining a 3-way collab with Mickey, Brenda, and Jen* Dear God....I never ask you for anything...please grant me this.

[@hope-cat4894]

And Mary Kunkel from Faith Evolving. And throw in Jessica Kellgren for added spice on the Quaker front.

[@kianasealy3509]

Please never stop making these videos!! I grew up with similar teachings and once I became an adult and MOVED OUT I realized how harmful and toxic this type of thinking is. Your videos are so therapeutic and reaffirming! 💗

[@onceuponamelody]

15:36 uh ok ... I think I just realised why I struggle to feel my emotions in the moment!! Definitely bringing this up with my therapist. 💖 Thanks Mickey for what you do, and can't wait to see a collab with Jen! 😉

[@YourMCAdmin]

KZbin just recommended your vids to me. Good choice algorithm!!! I've been thinking about going to therapy recently, but have been afraid of finding the right person. You are like the image of perfection when it comes to a psychotherapist for me. Wish you were up my way! Keep it up! Loving the channel!

[@zerro6961]

The name of the chapters in description lmfao 😭😂

[@StefFrederick]

Really comforting to see the shared experience of mental compulsions here in the comments. It really is something that makes you feel so alone and afraid. There is a solace in knowing other people deal with this too, even as sorry as I am to hear it at the same time. Wish you all the best