Clinton Democrats Hate the Left - RAI with Thomas Frank (4/9)

[@jbsmathers]

Listen Liberal is the best book I've read in terms of explaining why Trump is President. As a top 5%-er with a PhD who used to send money to Schummer and the Clinton's, it was painful for me to read. I wish more well off older liberals had the capacity for honest self-reflection, -until the Dems (or some new party) return to protecting the interests of workers Trumpism is not going anywhere.

[@Don-md6wn]

Jay, it's hard to get most people to act against their pocketbook, particularly when they can absolve themselves by pointing to the Republicans and say we have to be pragmatic to keep those neanderthals out of power. And there's the "I've made it, so everybody else should work as hard as me and go to the right schools and they can make it too" mentality among the elites.

[@qinby1182]

@Don Unfortunately that is not true. The majority DO vote against their own pocket book or don't vote at all.

[@condew6103]

Well, with Hillary's help the Republicans are in power now. Next time Republicans won't be the scary unknown, they'll be the better devil you know. Meanwhile, by adamantly rejecting populism, Clinton Democrats are telling every voter, "We will not represent you, but you damn well better vote for us." Democrats are in big trouble, probably irrelevant for decades to come. I don't morn their loss, but I do fear what Republicans may do once they realize Democrats have become irrelevant.

[@ccowan6100]

Jay Smathers I found Listen Liberal extremely enlightening as well, but no Hillary supporter I know will read it. Their inability to examine themselves will only get worse now that she has gone onto national TV and told Bernie supporters flat out to "go somewhere else." I looked for a long time at third parties, but came to the same conclusion as Thomas Frank did that they are not viable in our system. The only option is to take back the Dems. It is the only institution that can stand up against Trumpism, but we are going to have to take it back from the corporatists before that can happen.

[@gevdarg]

There are a significant group of Democrats who think they KNOW better than the rest of us. They believe we have to be coddled and we have to have our hands held as they lead us into the lives that are better for us. I knew there was a lot of condescension towards the Left in the Democratic Party (observed and experienced it during the primaries and post-election, but I didn't know how DEEPLY this belief was held until we had I was part of a Facebook thread a few weeks ago where someone who worked for the DNC actually made comments to that effect. The civil war is inevitable, especially if 2018 and 2020 are going to have the same tone as can be found in Senator Clinton's "What Happened".

[@MIKELIN8]

In 2001, I was in a car with my sister and brother-in-law, who are both Republicans. I mentioned that GWB was a light-weight, and my sister began screaming at me that he was better than 'my hero' Bill Clinton. I told her that Bill Clinton was no hero of mine, and that in my view, he should be more her hero, because he was the most republican Democratic President I had seen.

[@kirabarsmith9353]

This conversation is incredibly relevant, yet you'd never hear it on corporate TV, which speaks volumes about the agenda of those who hold power and influence.

[@o0xst]

yup

[@icantalk710]

Loving the analysis here, and how well Paul Jay and Thomas Frank are bouncing off each other with the conversation.

[@mohmoony3918]

Frank has some very good points and analysis, but is a terrible guest. He could slow it down a little, Paul could barely get a word in edgewise. He did the same to Jimmy Dore...just yap yap yap yap yap. He just rambles all over the place.

[@austinkonrad]

Moh I think Frank has some serious ADD.

[@awuma]

Thomas Frank says much the same things as Mark Blyth (many videos here) and Thomas Piketty (in writing), but he does so with passion and illustration; the other guys provide the hard data. I don't mind his rambling, because he brings a human element to it all. He's a Kansan after all.

[@CAY7607]

Cogent analysis. Thanks for this!

[@eargy11]

Dear god, THIS is what people should be watching, not idiot propaganda MSNBC. Thomas Frank is brilliant.

[@hobokengar]

Loved the commentary...just excellent. I'm gonna buy that book.

[@alanmann1683]

george boole yeah it's a good book.

[@aleaiactaest8354]

Love it when these two get together and discuss politics. Knowledgeable and educating. I wonder sometimes if TheRealNews should get a group/panel of Republicans/Trump voters and listen to why they voted for Trump. Could do the same with democrats. My point is that, there is a lot of (great) discussion about Trump and Democrats and Bernie and why people voted or didnt, but sometimes its interesting to actually hear what people think. Anyhow, great conversation, look forward to next chapter.

[@jpfrssnv]

"These people need to go away..." they will and have.... PROGRESSIVE LABOR PARTY..."now is the time to give up on the Democratic party"...duh!

[@imaginepeace63]

Hippasus I am for Green's but PLP are declared Communist. I have a friend who is part of the local PLP. He is a proud communist and he hates democratic socialism. Capitalism is not populism. Neither is Communism. Fascism and Communism are toltalarian. Democratic Socialism is populism. My friend sometimes has a open mind but not always.

[@infjintegrityvsnarcissism7295]

Hippasus You are right the Democratic party lost its soul when the DLC took over in the Bush 41 years.

[@ccowan6100]

This could not be more timely given Hillary's interview on Sunday when she basically told progressives to leave the party.

[@Philbert-s2c]

The one thing I agree with her on. Justice Democrats isn't going to work. DEMEXIT NOW.

[@QuarrelsomeLocalOaf]

Democrats without a left wing are a redundant party and Hillary might as well be a Republican. Democrats are going the way of the Whigs.

[@xyzsame4081]

Well, some rattle the cage from the inside, others come with the pitch forks from the outsides. If Justice Democrats bring good folks into office it does not matter under which label they start out (Dems have switched to GOP and the other way round). Like it did not matter much to the Dems that Sanders was an Independent. He was a reliable progressive vote when they needed it - and if they did the neoliberal or war gig they always found enough Repuplicans for the noble cause so his vote was not missed. If JD's get themselves elected with grassroots supports and w/o Big Donations they are not nearly as controllable for the Party machine and the Big Donors as their collegues. It should get easier to hold on to a seat when they increase their name recognition (it can be seen with the Sanders career) - so as long as they remain CONTENT with the salary and the benefits and do no want more (and as long as the grassroots remain so they do not stray) - it should work, no matter under which party they enter the race.

[@austinkonrad]

Cathy can you expand on tha, I didn't see the interview.

[@arfrances7609]

Terrific interview!

[@charleskesner1302]

Corporate Democrats. UGH

[@onomatopoeia162003]

corporate Democrats are the old Republicans before they went crazy center-right on how they govern or would you call them Liberal Republicans that used to be in that party

[@Guytalayhne]

Charles Kesner You want diabetes or cancer?

[@0zoneTherapyCures]

Neoliberalism is an economic policy that both parties adhere to, the interests of the transnationals.

[@0zoneTherapyCures]

Neoliberalism is the defining political economic paradigm of our time - it refers to the policies and processes whereby a relative handful of private interests are permitted to control as much as possible of social life in order to maximize their personal profit. Associated initially with Reagan and Thatcher, for the past four decades neoliberalism has been the dominant global political economic trend adopted by political parties of the center and much of the traditional left as well as the right. These parties and the policies they enact represent the immediate interests of extremely wealthy investors and less than one thousand large corporations. Copyright © by the President and Fellows of Harvard College - Robert W. McChesney, Harvard Educational Review

[@robinsss]

what does the economic have to do with the social?

[@justgivemethetruth]

4:40 - the smartest and wisest thing I have ever heard out of Paul Jay about the leadership of the Democratic party ... well said!

[@khaartoumsings]

Two intelligent gentlemen. Really informative discussion. ; ) K

[@daysjours]

I wish Thomas Frank were a frequent contributor all over the internet -- one of the most incisive thinkers out there.

[@Guytalayhne]

Thanks for this. A grim reminder of corporate politrix by the burro party.

[@atrociousconsequences4432]

The Left has been aiding and abetting the Republican party, greatly helping them to win.

[@atrociousconsequences4432]

Just keep it up and the GOP will remain in control and power for a long time.

[@rickbishop5987]

In my view we have not been able to move the democratic party towards the working class or left. We need to vote for a third party that will influence their policies.

[@katrinak902]

I love that part at the end "I know he's a liar. I know he's a clown and I voted for him anyway. What does that tell you about what I think of the whole political class?" So true!

[@OurHiddenHistoryRevealed]

Would be cool if Real News would pin a comment with a link to part one for each of these RAI series.

[@jeffmurray1681]

Good stuff

[@walterwz]

The big problem with Unions is that they were co-opted completely become elite, exclusive, EXTREMELY PRIVILEGED clubs. For most unions, the only way in was if you were a son with a father in the union. Unions as an EXCLUSIVE CLUB is the exact opposite of what unions need to be.

[@gcarlindisciple6071]

Every lying, backstabbing criminal hates people who point out, "Hey, maybe you should stop lying and backstabbing you criminal." Makes sense to me.

[@MrHarveyrex23]

Both the democrat and republican establishment serves the ruling class.

[@dsloan69]

goes very good with the cranberries in the background. Impeach all insanity

[@Beadbud5000]

Notice how neither Frank or Jay will call them Neo-liberals!

[@GehresWeed]

Yes Indeed! We need to have a strong 3rd party. It forces compromise & progress and gives all a voice.

[@livevegan]

Paul you need to interview Stephanie Kelton about MMT. Congress CAN afford healthcare. Fed taxes do not fund spending

[@lnbartstudio2713]

I'm rembering that she didn't actually lose the popular vote. But the fact that the outcome was so close is as good as a loss considering it was trump.

[@lucasnorwine2745]

studio 2020 Hillary is fully to blame for Trump. It was outrageous to give her a second run in the first place and then you have that collusion. If she had been elected it would have further condoned unlawfullness

[@elvenbread191]

electoral fraud, not voter fraud. otherwise Bernie would have won of course. I know.

[@StephenWhite55]

+Jay Smathers Bravo - well said. Succinct and accurate... Keep it up.

[@davidells6760]

This aged well, and will indeed remain ‘evergreen’, but the Frank & Eskow remain oblivious to modern RNC politics and what Republican & independent voters want, and who they’re willing to vote for, not to mention many former Democrats.

[@bradkohl6283]

They are Reagan Republicans who took over the Democratic Party in the early 90's period!

[@gevdarg]

Yup!

[@MtnGalPal]

And I welcome their hatred!

[@condew6103]

Trump's rough edges are his appeal, his policies are pure bull shit. If Pence tries to be a more refined Trump he'll be boring as hell, the press will ignore him, and he may lose even with Democrats divided.

[@MartialVillager]

Pence will have less legitimacy if Trump is impeached. Even some Trump supporters are suspicious of Pence. Though is he technically more competent, i doubt he would be able to accomplish more than Trump.

[@LocalSequence]

How about some links to the past 3 discussions...in the description??

[@smoage]

The Working Families Party has done quite a bit of work with fusion voting and advocating for it. New York has it and I believe a few other states do too, but it might be worth pushing for a bit harder.

[@concerned1]

Why didn’t Clinton just join the Republican Party?

[@loriellis2675]

Such a gift to Hillary, yet she was so awful

[@climatedeceptionnetwork4122]

This is too good. I'm going to make my own copy. Call them what they are, "fascists."

[@elmoswansong]

Very helpful this Centrist Faction notion. I did not understand why Bernie Sanders supported Clinton in the end but was not chosen as intended vice president to her presidency. They did not give him anything. The DNC deserved it Sanders to split up de Democratic Party and break out the Left and fund a 3d party / independent party. The democratic party lost the election because they did not pick Bernie Sanders over Clinton. Sanders at age 74 as senator for life is independent even to his own surprise proved to fund his own campaign.

[@nooneyouknow7036]

"there may be even more rigging against Sanders in 2020". How prophetic, just look at what happened in the Iowa caucus.

[@Nine-Signs]

@TheRealNews can you guys put the links to the other parts in the bottom please, difficult to find otherwise.

[@charlesbeaudry3263]

This series should be required hairing in Civics classes.

[@mustbtrouble]

Charles Beaudry yeah i hate to tell you but there are no civics classes in high school anymore & havent been for at least 20yrs.

[@julierozo]

What are Frank's and Jay's thoughts on why HRC's followers, not just high-earning professionals, are so blind to the evolution of the D-Party?

[@Michilar]

It's interesting to look back at this video post 2024 and see that the Republican party didn't go with 'someone who knew that they were doing' and that Trump was a terrible politician. Trump is a master politician. He knows how to take the pulse of the crowd and deliver some snippet of what they want to hear until it grows into something insurmountable.

[@Yikum24]

How is the law against fusing constitutional?

[@robinsss]

what is fusing?

[@Yikum24]

If i'm understanding it correctly, it is the ability of those attempting to build a third party base registration in a state to qualify for being shown on future ballots in that state by recruiting existing members of either the Republican and Democrat party, or it keeps existing members of the DNC RNC elections from pushing for 3rd party candidates to show up on primary ballots for state and federal positions. Whether or not i got that right, what the absence of fusing effectively does is make it impossible for a 3rd party to be represented in the house and senate in any significant way. 3rd parties can therefore only really focus on the presidential race for any meaningful legislative clout or leverage for it's own platform. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fusion

[@y0us3rn4m3]

One point. Revisionist history notwithstanding, Jimmy Carter was a centrist; so much so that Ted Kennedy primary-ed him, albeit unsuccessfully, from the left after Carter's first (and soon-to-be last) term. Carter's and his wife's humanitarian efforts since have garnered him our love and respect, but as a president, he wasn't particularly progressive.

[@Barbara-cp6zx]

Pence would be back to the normal shoe salesman politician. Trumps outlandish statements were what kept the camera on him. AND the way he plain talks is the way frat boys, athletes, construction workers and other blue collar people talk. WE the PEOPLE identify with him over a shoe salesman that we are no longer duped by.

[@arfrances7609]

Could there be a realistic 4-party pres. election in 2020?????????

[@garyjjanb]

The political tide will change only after enough older voters make way for younger voters by dying. Forget about changing their minds.

[@theodoreruleoflaw2277]

In a word, the bourgeois party…

[@jansteinvonsquidmeirsteen2256]

I was listening till the host chimed in with the groundless Putin claim.

[@livevegan]

Learn Modern Monetary Theory

[@inessaarmand4681]

It's cynical. The point to make IS they don't care if they lose, their interests win! (Sanders was used to scurry people into the democrat regime / or he would not have been seen or heard from, period. No need for conjecture on his role.)

[@MartialVillager]

Sanders is imperialism-lite, he wants the rich to be a little nicer to us so that we won't have a REAL socialist revolution. EAT THE RICH!

[@inessaarmand4681]

The gears are grinding and rather pathetically all I see is a public, perceiving that communists run the "NWO"! Ahhh. The Russian Revolution took a lot of intellectuals not on screens, but doing real work and that's just missing. So much so that the public's religion is still anti-communism!

[@jackjackthompson5771]

Was always totally unnecessary to reintroduce the guest on each segment of a conversation.. 🙄🙄

[@livevegan]

#DemExit

[@theodoreruleoflaw2277]

Crash? What crash?

[@dratheart]

And Bernie Sanders is hated in the US Senate as well. Many Senators say they can't deal with his shouting and finger-wagging and holier-than-thou attitudes and thus Bernie has gotten almost no legislation that he ever offered passed in his entire time there.

[@TimeDarkLegend]

As a Hillary Clinton supporter, I don’t hate anybody. The whole point of a centrist is to get along with people and compromise with other people and to share in other people’s ideas. The whole point of the radical left and radical right is about power and control and hating people. You people don’t want to compromise with other people because you think that your ideas are superior then the other side, that is the whole point of trump voters and Bernie Sanders supporters, they think they’re better than everybody else. I want to get along with my neighbor who happens to be a republican and live peacefully with him and actually try to live in a world where his ideas and my ideas can mix peacefully.

[@mcesavage]

I like thomas frank a lot but the man is horrible in an interview. He wont let the interviewer finish their questions. Allways talking over them. He did the same thing to jimmy dore. Youre great tom but settle down

[@adamlynch6954]

this constant distortion of Obama and fanboy saint Bernie crowd is nauseating....

[@berningsandwiches2662]

adam lynch don't get mad just cuz Shillary you got beat by an orange haired buffoon.

[@niccolea2086]

adam lynch Obama is a nice guy but he's center-right and he didn't fight for us. He caved even prior to negotiations and at first it was shocking to watch but after a while we realize he just didn't care. So you can accept the truth of 8 year record or not. But sanders is to the left and been there for 30 years.

[@TehMasterSword]

Feel free to point out a specific criticism to begin the conversation.

[@ComeOnIsSuchAJoy]

+Basil Fumphlinhope Foreign policy is indeed Bernie's Achilles Heel, but I say let's fix the shit here at home first -- which he'll certainly do.

[@SapoArdente]

Obama is as neoliberal as Clinton, he is not a nice guy, he is tremendous hypocrite.

[@adamlynch6954]

Thomas Frank calls Jimmy Carter a liberal but bashes Obama and Clinton... guy is politically illiterate

[@jbsmathers]

Adam you might want to read the book before you speak in front of others about how dumb a author is. This guy is writing about history, most of it is not opinion, what opinion is there comes from knowing history. You might learn a few things and look less silly speaking about Frank after reading the book. The book is about how clueless guys like you are (and to be honest guys like me before I read it.) But maybe learning and growth is not for you, evidently self reflection is not too common among establishment Dems.....

[@LiberaLib]

Sounds about right to me. What's the problem?

[@adamlynch6954]

Jay Smathers i dont remember making any comment about his book.... my comments are a response to his grossly misleading and inaccurate statements much of which is his opinion not fact

[@adamlynch6954]

Jay Smathers a great example is the Jimmy Carter comment... Carter was not a liberal Democrat

[@LiberaLib]

Carter was the only president in recent history not to engage in unprovoked military action against another country, whereas obama expanded the number of aggressive wars the US is involved in from two to seven. Carter also made significant inroads in thawing relations with Russia, whereas Hillary Clinton and today's democrats seem to be hell-bent on getting us involved in a new cold war. I mean, you can talk about who you like better, but Carter being firmly to the left of both Obama and Clinton? That seems to me to be inarguable fact to anyone with even a nodding familiarity with recent history.

[@adamlynch6954]

God enough with this guy Thomas Frank he is awful

[@bfp08]

adam lynch you can watch something else

[@jbsmathers]

Nothing hurts like the truth, isn't that so Adam....

[@adamlynch6954]

Jay Smathers truth?? guy uses baseless assertion and distortions rewriting history it's nauseating

[@jbsmathers]

you do seem nauseated, is that how you normally react to baseless assertions?

[@LiberaLib]

Kamala Harris 2020!