Responding to the "Cessationist" Documentary - Part #4 | Cessationist Movie Review

[@amyclutter7259]

Great episode. Love the testimonies of the miraculous works of the Spirit during the Reformation.

[@frekigeri4317]

False signs and wonders

[@JimiSurvivor]

@@frekigeri4317 Augustine, who was the father of the Reformation, witnessed the operation of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit. John MacArthur presented his account as resembling stories rumors or legends. When I read them I did not see that at all. I guess he must be right since he wrote a Bible

[@jonathandavid9720]

@@frekigeri4317like you were there?

[@frekigeri4317]

@@jonathandavid9720 the reformation was diabolical, not divine

[@ReLair88]

Any new Christian who sits down and reads the NT before hearing any teaching on the gifts would never come to the conclusion that gifts are not for today. You won't find in scripture anything that says God is not supernaturally working today as He has throughout history. God has been, is, and will always be supernatural and will not cease to do supernatural works in and through believers. To get born again and turn around and say God doesn't do supernatural works other than salvation is ludicrous. It is actually slandering God.

[@funstuff81girl]

Yes it's very slanderous of Holy Spirit it really angers me.

[@kristanrussell9931]

Yet Paul says eagerly desire spiritual gifts and that is for all people for all time. Sigh! This is not hard. This shouldn’t be even a thing! This is no brainer. Clearly the enemy is doing something. Spiritual gifts is a normal party of Christian life! This is normal.

[@cassandrakanaley9251]

Amen! As a fairly new believer I completely agree❤ I was reading NT and thought the same thing cessationist don't have much to go on. I feel like Jesus might say oh you of little faith(cess. Churches today) that may be why they aren't "seeing"

[@maxmustermann1206]

"You won't find in scripture anything that says God is not supernaturally working today as He has throughout history. " That's a straw man argument. Cessationists will tell you that God is indeed at work today. They just don't believe that God gives PEOPLE the gift of healing today.

[@ReLair88]

@@maxmustermann1206 There are quite a few more supernatural gifts of the Spirit besides healing. Last time I checked, there were nine.

[@rebeccacovert8052]

Thank you Josh, Michael, and Miller! I can’t tell you how helpful your show is to me and my husband! We pray for you all, and thank God for your ministry!

[@veruskabates3121]

Thank you so much for these podcasts. I have never heard about the terms such as Cessationism and Continuationism before, until I met a reformed Christian. We share the foundation of Christianity, except for our differences in optinion regarding this topic. He invited me to join him at his church to go watch the movie cessationist, and after doing my research on what a cessacionist believes, I declined his invite to attend, stating that I do not believe in these teachings and would rather stay clear of such teachings. He stated that he was previously a Pentecostal then a charismatic, and didn't feel that he was saved. He then found the reformed church. He actually said that as a pentecostal / charismatic that I am following a false religion. He has such a hardened heart, and is clearly deceived. Please pray for him and pray that he will watch this series I have sent him.

[@PTLbH]

Always liked the Scottish Reformation but knew little of the manifestations of the charismatic gifts and miracles. You should do a special episode on it if you haven't already. Thanks for sharing.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

Glad you enjoyed this

[@laurenlovel]

This should be titled “What happens when Calvin becomes an idol”…

[@krazzykracker2564]

Yes one of the worst influences on the churches in history. A hate-filled man with a murderous heart.

[@mlj6293]

So true it seems😂🤣😅

[@sunithagirish2139]

Yes!!!

[@TheJMan31]

Or “When Your Favorite JC is No Longer Jesus Christ”

[@melaniem4070]

Wow guys! Thank you for *not* skimping on the historical part of this. That was so interesting- John Knox was a continuationist?! 😃

[@ReLair88]

I guess Dr. Kennedy's Knox Theological Seminary didn't know about Knox's history. Dr. Kennedy was a cessationist, but he got to me too late. As a new believer,I had already read the NT and experienced words of knowledge that came to pass. His sermons against the gifts had no place to land.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

It was supper important!

[@joelarmies]

I don’t think it is coincidence that “continuationists” in one degree or another have been at the spearhead of every Protestant missionary movement. Fruit

[@joelarmies]

This was not lost on Lloyd-Jones

[@ericedwards5034]

One of the more refreshing thngs about you guys is how charitable you are with those you disagree with or who differ from you. But in this instance, I have to roll with Michael Miller when he says that the guy making the film simply doesn't want to know what the other side thinks on this issue. He has his position staked out, he is closed minded about it, and he has no plans to truly try to understand what a charismatic/continuationist thinks. How do you make a whole documentary propping up an issue/position and attacking another without bothering to learn about it? If you do that it is because you DO NOT WANT to know about what a charismatic/continuationist honestly believes! I am a continuationist because the Bible clearly teaches the operation of the gifts of the Spirit being part of the life of the believer and the church and because I have witnessed the gifts in action. But when I was trying to get an understanding of the cessationist position and their criticism of charismatics/continuationists I bought and read Strange Fire by John MacArthur. I didn't agree with his positions, but I had to read hhim before I could critique him. I don't agree with Calvinism, but I listen to Calvinists for themselves, I read them, and then I read and listen to the other side so that my critiques of Calvinism are fair. What they did on the documentary (seemingly) is simply ignore everything written defending the continuation of the charismatic gifts in order to make a bad faith criticism of those beliefs.

[@ManuelMedina-mk1hj]

Woohoo thanks for bringing church history to this discussion. So good to hear of miracles, signs and wonders done by Almighty God through baptist brothers like Charles Spurgeon. To God be the glory!

[@TheRemnantRadio]

HOw cool is that?!

[@ewene2656]

Thank you for bringing up the issue of the perspecuity of Scripture and semper reformanda. This has been the elephant in the room for me this whole time following these videos. Cessationism goes against the very doctrines they appeal to support their position. It goes against the sufficiency of Scripture, perspecuity of Scripture and even Sola Scriptura. It goes against the sufficiency of Scripture because it appeals to extra biblical support for their doctrine of the gifts. It goes against the perspecuity of Scripture because the Scriptures are clear on the purpose, practice and need for the gifts. It goes against Sola Scriptura because the continuationist doctrine of the gifts is built on the authority of Scripture over human and even church tradition, whereas the cessationist doctrine is built on a narrow view of being “Protestant”. And it goes against semper reformanda because following the sufficiency, perspecuity and authority of Scripture entails continuationism and therefore reformation in the area of the gifts is the logical conclusion of such doctrines.

[@tpw7250]

Great points

[@waynesinsulating1908]

Speaking from experience😮. I have been treated in the most despicable ways by cessationists including those very close to me. My father inlaw told me that he wished he had never given me permission to marry his daughter, after the scriptures awakened us to things spiritual. An elder in our church who is a retired pastor and missionary told me to my face that there was "no hope left for me in God" Why is it that cessationists can so glibly judge while ignoring a plain simple reading of scripture?

[@theeternalslayer]

Having a form of godliness but denying its power.. cessationists are like the heretics that the church fathers post original 12 deciples delt with, turtullian said this about heretics "Heretics are Self-Condemned. Heresy is Self-Will, Whilst Faith is Submission of Our Will to the Divine Authority." John Calvin was a cessationist, and he often Condemned people that disagreed with his theology his theology boldly claims we are predestined before we are even born to go to heaven or hell and we can't change this.

[@tannerfrancisco8759]

They don't have the love of Christ nor the hope of Christ nor are they capable of discerning what must be spiritually discerned--because they are false converts. They do not have the Holy Spirit. It's as simple as that. Many charismatics are also false converts--they are essentially Christian-themed witches. But if you are genuinely saved, born again, and filled with the Holy Spirit (baptized by the Spirit) then you can discern the same in others and discern the other spirit and the unbelief in others. These guys in this podcast accept anyone who had professed Christ as if they are saved and Spirit-filled and because of it, they accept every form of heresy and antiChrist wolf in sheep's clothing as a brother which is really stupid but also ungodly. We're supposed to cast these false teachers out of the church until they repent because they are accursed--Galatians 1.

[@theeternalslayer]

@@tannerfrancisco8759 how are they taking authority over these principalities without power? I rarely see these modern churches talk about casting out demons

[@master_chief723]

Didnt know about the continuation of the gift during the reformation, you made me look at the prophecies that Georges Wishart made. Hallelujah and praise the lord of these miracles.

[@keith3362]

If you're not a cessationist you're not a protestant? That's fine. I'll go with being a believer in Jesus. A christian.

[@JH324]

You mean believer in feelings over scriptures

[@keith3362]

@@JH324 Really? Did I say that? I said believer in Jesus. Also scripture. You probably interpret the bible the same way you interpreted my post. Cessationists have no scripture to back them up. The ONLY thing any one of them might bring up is in Corinthians when Paul is talking about how then we will see face to face. But clearly he is talking about when we are in the presence of the Lord.

[@RevDavidReyes]

EXACTLY!!! I've been saying this for yearssssss. "Cessationism" is basically another sect of KJVonly. Just a group of people that elevate a bible translation(KJV) to a tier1 doctrine. What do Cessationist's do? They elevate cessationism vs continuationism to a tier1 doctrine. Which it's not. And let me just say, IF it was a tier1 doctrine issue, the continuationist's are coming out as the true believers. There is not a ounce of scripture to back up the cessationist position. The fact that Cessationist's are now saying that Continuationist's are not Christian (AKA, same thing KJVO say.) show's that Cessationist's, if they continue in this trend, THEY fill fall out of Protestantism. They will basically become in themselves a "catholic church" that is holding tradition over scripture.

[@c7bluerose]

I agree with Miller. A documentary is a persuasive piece. Persuasion requires the ability to respond to counter arguments. Without reading continuationist arguments, the producers don’t have anything but an opinion piece. I can’t even call it a documentary at this point. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Thank you, Remnant Radio, for helping me put words and scripture to my arguments for the continual work of the Spirit!

[@Diaryofamadman1]

I'd like to recommend a change from 'basement boy' to 'the apostle in the attic'.

[@GuilliamJNel]

I don’t know if you guys are gonna see this, but if you do…. I just spoke to Dr. Daniel B. Gilbert (taught at Regent University, and headed up their Master’s Program), He taught Pneumatology, and He did his PHD on John Calvin’s Pneumatology and actually argues and proves that based on his research Calvin was not a cessationist. I told him about what you guys are doing and he said he would LOVE to get in touch with you guys and have a discussion / dismantle the cessationist arguments - especially regarding Calvin’s perspective on the gifts, as well as the historical view of the gifts in the early church… if you guys are keen(?) If so, lemme know, and we’ll see what we can organize 😊

[@annhinz6326]

Can't wait to share some cheese curds with you! Make sure you go to Kwik Trip and Culver's! Welcome to Wisconsin! I'll see you there!

[@michaelmiller5024]

Love me some cheese curds

[@maxmustermann1206]

@@michaelmiller5024 One way for sure that you'll know you got good cheese curds: they will squeak when you eat them. (regular cheese curds, not deep fried) Carr Valley is a good brand.

[@annhinz6326]

@@maxmustermann1206 also the best place to get them is at a gas station believe or not! They need to be room temperature to squeak

[@moisesgomez1601]

What do you guys think about the domino revival movie

[@BobbyU808]

Maranatha

[@intergalactichumanempire9759]

I like how their example of "legendary stuff" in Catholicism is water springing from a rock, and healing the blind, both of which happened in the Bible.

[@mlj6293]

Yes I agree with Josh, the Protestants overcorrected or overreacted against the Catholic abuse of the gifts. That seems to be one of the links in the chain that's how they got to their Viewpoint to this day

[@RDH061666]

At 1:29 you said they didn't do the work. I question if they really love the church, or people. I have witnessed 5 point Calvinists who seemingly have complete disregard for the great commission. It seems that Cessationists do not believe what they do not understand. They (cessationists) are doing grave harm by saying we (continuationists) believe in something (one) other than Jesus. Personally I do not need to read the early church fathers because the bible is to be read by anyone. Scripture clearly says there will be signs, also you will know them by their fruit/ works. 1 Cor 13 and Acts-- you will receive power etc... Those fellas do more harm than good and they will have to answer.

[@maxmustermann1206]

"I have witnessed 5 point Calvinists who seemingly have complete disregard for the great commission. " That would actually be 6 point Calvinists, also known as hyper-Calvinism.

[@crypticproger]

Not a fair assessment of Calvinists. Most of the early greats were Calvinists when it comes to spreading the gospel.

[@Momoften2011]

I received the gift if tongues in 1980, the first full church service I attended. I was urged inwardly(now I know it was the Holy Spirit) to go to pray at the front, and I was urged (again, inwardly) to raise my hands and open my mouth. God gave me the gift. Almost 43 years ago..walking with Christ and thanking you for urging us to "earnestly desire spiritual gifts"...Bless you . (And if I didn't know Corinthians from Chronicles then, does that negate my experience, or have I built my theology on experience? I feel not .....I do not practise magic.

[@tliw2]

When someone accuses Charismatics of practicing another religion, practicing magic (forbidden by God), etc., I have to ask, what did Jesus mean when He said that whoever calls his brother a fool is in danger of hell fire? Fools are not just silly, they're godless: the fool said in his heart, "There is no God." It seems to me that Jesus is warning us not to judge our professing brothers as unbelievers... which is what some cessationists are doing. It also seems to be the unpardonable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit that Jesus spoke of, by attributing His work to Satan.

[@teetrevor]

Great episode guys 👍👍👍

[@UTBaller22]

In defense of Copeland in cutting his hand in the communion cup, if you watch that full YT video, it was to symbolize a covenant because he doesn't think western culture fully understands what covenants are. He wasn't actually taking communion. He was showing that if he were to cut his hand and the gentelemen he was on stage was to cut his hand, and then they mixed there cups, you couldn't distinguish Copeland's blood and the gentlemen's blood. They would be mixed together. He was saying that is what happens when we take communion with Jesus blood. It was just an illustration so someone could visually see.

[@anotherxredeemed]

Have you guys read the partner book to MLJ's "Joy Unspeakable" , called "The Sovereign Spirit"? It's a very good follow up regarding the "phenomena" of the Holy Spirit in the gifts. Also extremely good and extremely rare.

[@mlj6293]

Such a great show. Thank you.. it's so ridiculous for them to go on denying what's the scriptures teach and the history of the church proves. it does remind me of the Pharisees. Even the Scottish Presbyterians who are so conservative experienced these things. It's amazing to me that they don't know this history. They're supposed to be our teachers and they don't seem to know these men of God who experienced these things. Like you said they didn't do any research before producing this documentary or else they willfully ignored it.. it's a shame

[@jr0706]

I am going to have to steal the phrase “offbrand church, fathers“ 😂

[@poik247]

Why does everyone have hats 😂

[@rebeccamatteson9643]

Hiding baldness 😂

[@j.sargenthill9773]

is it a coincidence that the 4th century, when supposedly the gifts were no longer in practice, is when Rome took over church history?

[@sunithagirish2139]

Interesting...

[@Yeshuite]

Looking for a sprit filled church that holds to a reformed view. Does this exist ?

[@ludwigamadeushaydn706]

Sovereign Grace churches, allegedly

[@ravikeller9626]

I attended Sovereign Grace in Louisville for several months and they seem to fit that description very well.

[@moisesgomez1601]

Can you also review that movie domino revival i would luv to see your views on it

[@VanessaQuintanilla-m3b]

Can I get names of these guys ?

[@BRNMinistries]

1:31:00 Josh, that's interesting that you have had positive conversations with Tim. He actually hopped on my church's livestream to accuse us of being a cult simply because we have women preachers and pray in tongues. He and Les both have been very violent in their juvenile mockery against me, as portrayed in their comments on my facebook posts and their refusal to actually have a conversation even though I have directly called them both multiple times. Les, specifically, has jeered me verbatim as saying simply because we are continuationist we are LARPing in D&D, Harry Potter sorcery & wizardry. However Tim has taken personal offense because I equated their manipulative use of preacher clips and church history quotes with witchcraft. I do hope they take you up on your gracious offer. I can potentially also get you in touch with Kofi who appears in the film. He loves appearing as a guest.

[@maxmustermann1206]

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man" (1 Timothy 2:12) I wouldn't say that your church is a cult, but those women are not preachers. Do you or someone in the church interpret the tongues? "Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also" (1 Cor 14:13-15)

[@tannerfrancisco8759]

​@@maxmustermann1206You obviously cannot discern what must be spiritually discerned and do not understand the context of either of those passages. That's just stupid and lazy.

[@jonathandavid9720]

@@maxmustermann1206You are conflating a public message tongue with prayer tongues. Public message tongues needs interpreting, private prayer tongues don’t.

[@HealingWord_Psalm107-20]

I’m a continuationist. But to be fair to the opposing argument, they’re saying from their view that the true gifts died out with the apostles (late 60s to 90s) and that you see an uptick of lying wonders and folklore at the beginning of the 4th century with Catholicism. I appreciate your rebuttal to the film, but IMO the timeline issue is not your strongest point.

[@TheJMan31]

It’s still a strong point. None of the Cessationists in the film agree on the timeline, that’s a big deal

[@matthewphelps6115]

I enjoy listening to you guys. With your comment about kjv only. What is your guys final authority. If your interested David Daniels is a great source on is the kjv the word of God for English speaking people. I especially like is series on the codex Sinaiticus.

[@robmoore8393]

I'm not real up on the labels so can anyone help me understand, I'm not catholic and i'm not lutheran, or any other label (and i'm not protesting anything) Does that still, by default, make me a "protestant"? If so why? I didn't become a Christian in any church but at my workplace as a kid. Does that make me a GolfPracticeRangerist?

[@maxmustermann1206]

One word separates Protestants from Catholics: Sola (alone). Protestants believe that we are saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone, according to Scripture alone, for the Glory of God alone. Take out the word "alone" and that sums up Catholocism. For example, they believe that they are save by Faith AND works, Scripture is not their only authority, They also believe in the authority of Bishops, Cardinals, and Popes.

[@robmoore8393]

@@maxmustermann1206 Thanks for all that great explanation/ Information! Very well written and clear!! I'm trying to think this through... If a person believes in all those "alones" (Like a protestant does) does that make them a protestant? What if someone believed in the "alones" BEFORE Luther came on the scene? What were they called? As like, I hold conservative beliefs/policies but i'm not a "republican"...i'm an independent. Or would some argue there WERE no sola - believers that existed BEFORE Luther pulled out his hammer and nails!?? Any thoughts on this? I admit i don't know that much about history of theology!?

[@dougmichalak5687]

Have not yet watched the video (I will)... From the title alone, I'm like, "I'm good with that,,,you?"

[@mshhoward]

I love you guys' content! Maybe I'm overly sensitive to interrupting someone when they're talking, but there's a lot of that going on. It's a mild hinderance to listening. Hope I'm not overstepping a supporter's boundaries :) I feel like you guys can take it better than most. I've often thought that when I'm talking on the phone with someone (since I can't see their face) we should use CB language like 'over' so we don't step on one another. Ha.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

its always good to have a reminder ;)

[@TempleofChristMinistries]

When Paul said to Timothy, just take a little wine, it had to do with the stomach ailment and wine would ease this stomach ailment, Timothy's Faith would have to be pathetic if he ran to Paul and said, oh please heal me because I have a stomach ache, why not say oh my little toe hurts, so please send for one of the Apostles ignorant men, for it is written about them, they know not to the power of God, if I have faith in God then I shall seek my faith to be healed if healing has to be done, and furthermore, people believed in Paul so they asked of him and he gave to them, no ask no receive, what the cessationists do not understand, they are natural fallen man the light of the Christ does not dwell within them, as it is written, they do not know what they are saying they have the spirit of error, when a man has the spirit of Truth he speaks truth, when a man has the spirit of error he speaks error, it simply reveals the heart of a man,

[@theeternalslayer]

"Heretics are Self-Condemned. Heresy is Self-Will, Whilst Faith is Submission of Our Will to the Divine Authority." Prescriptions against heretics by turtullian, i highly recommend this work.

[@mlj6293]

Martyn Lloyd Jones once said he believed those who deny continuationist do so out of fear of excesses. We would agree there are excesses and charlatans but that shouldn't lead to a denial of what's clearly taught and experience throughout church history

[@MrDarrellcoleson]

Rowntree - Robert the Bruce (1300’s King of Scots) v. Robert Bruce (1500’s Kinnaird)? Doesn’t take away from the rest of the history you guys shared. There’s just no support for cessationism in scripture and much of history!

[@krazzykracker2564]

Explain please?

[@MrDarrellcoleson]

@@krazzykracker2564, Rountree mentions Robert the Bruce, a reformer also king of Scotland and a subject of the movie Braveheart. I think he combined Robert the Bruce, 1300’s king of Scotland and Robert Bruce, 1500’s reformer.

[@krazzykracker2564]

@@MrDarrellcoleson hmm I wonder if they will address this?

[@jordanscott6518]

You guys mentioned potential concerns with Dan Mohler in passing. I have been hugely helped by his teaching recently but have wondered what the substantive criticism of him is - most of the stuff out there is pretty unfair. Really hope you’ll do a show on him or with him at some point - a lot of us would benefit from your thoughts.

[@michaelmiller5024]

Overall I really love Dan! Personally he's one of the kindest most joy-filled people I've ever met! I think his sermons can tend towards sinless perfectionism causing people to think they are not saved. He has a John Wesley view of Romans 7. That's my only disagreement. Can't emphasize enough how much I genuinely love him though.

[@jordanscott6518]

Thank you for responding, yep I can understand that concern - have had to wrestle a little to make sure I’m inspired by his personal anecdotes rather than condemned. Bless you man

[@lindsaygraham9115]

@@michaelmiller5024 I was taught that Romans 7 was talking about Paul’s former way of life before he knew Christ as well. I know it’s a debated passage. I came to that conclusion after studying the context, but realize I could be wrong. I’ve listened to Dan Moehler a few times and can see where people might feel like they aren’t saved. I stopped listening to him because he was just a little too much for me. Is your view of Romans 7 that Paul is talking about his life after he came to Christ? Does viewing Romans 7 as Paul pre-conversion make someone too legalistic?

[@michaelmiller5024]

@@lindsaygraham9115I took Keener's view. Life in the flesh vs life by the Spirit.

[@lindsaygraham9115]

@@michaelmiller5024 Thanks for responding! I highly respect Keener so may have to go with his view. Thanks!

[@dustinpaulson1123]

Been listening to these podcasts and it is so obvious how either ignorant or dishonest the makers of this documentary were in their scripting of it. If a class were to be taught on what the mishandling of Scripture and history looks like, this exposé on "Cessationist" could be the curriculum.

[@annaboshier6680]

The wink from Rowntree though 😂

[@stevenjohnson3883]

Let me say at the outset that I received a lifesaving miracle in June of 1971 and have had several touches from God over the course of my life. And I can say that in certain instances it may not always be possible to have documentation of a miracle such as in my case. It wasn’t a healing. I have also had several words of knowledge. At one point I was a part of the WOF movement. Just as you do not pretend to speak for all continuationist, likewise I do not speak for all cessationist. To make my personal position clear I can agree that there have been through the centuries sporadic, individualistic or ad hoc manifestations of healings and miracles. As the Lord through his sovereign will may grant from time to time. And some of those things have and do continue into our present time. But nobody has been “walking” in those gifts like the Apostles since that time. Having said that, I am firmly rooted in the cessationist camp! What concerns me is that your side is so quick to condemn those of us who question many so-called miracles. And quickly jump to the charges of blasphemy and we are pharisees. It never seems to occur to you that we are following scriptures. Over and over in the New Testament we are implored by the scripture to guard against false teachers and false prophets. We are called upon to test every spirit and to be wise as serpents. Or when it comes to those warnings you are cessationist! Or don’t you believe that real miracles will stand up to scrutiny!!! If they’re real, they will. Paul commended the Bereans for checking out the scriptures to see if what he taught was true. Are you and your group above Paul and above reproach? The scriptures speak of deceivers such as Simon Magus or Jannes and Jambres who used magic tricks to deceive. The same is true in our time frame. But the deceivers now have better illusions and tricks. I have studied many techniques such as hypnosis, cold reading, sleight of hand magic and NLP which can use sleight of mouth techniques. And I see and can identify these techniques being used by so called “healing” evangelist and others in the Pentecostal/charismatic, full gospel, choose your term movement. The point is shouldn’t Christians be on guard against such tricksters? And when I see well-meaning good-hearted Christians being fooled and conned out of their money it makes me angry. As so many scriptures warn about false teachers! They come as wolfs in sheep’s clothing. Or another example as when Jesus speaks about the tares mixed in with the wheat. The point is false teachers come in disguise like undercover agents. Nobody says “Hey, I am a false prophet” or in the middle of their speeches say “and now here is the false part.” No, they try to look like sheep or mimic the Great Shepard. And they mix truth with error. That's why the scripture warns us about the importance of sound doctrine. And by the way I always find it odd that the spirit filled, baptized in the Holy Spirit, on fire for God crowd who believe in the gifts of the spirt NEVER seem to get a word of knowledge about the wolves in their midst. It’s always us “non-spirit” filled ones who have to point out the problems. And if you want examples, I can give you plenty! You also mention prophecy a lot in this series, and you say you believe those gifts are in operation today, how come NOBODY saw covid 19 coming or the current crisis in Israel.? The silence of your so-called prophets is deafening!!!! So, are we to disengage our brains? And just take any so-called miracle or healing at face value and never ask any questions. Just shut up and give an offering! You mean to tell me you go through your life without any discernment or judgement about anybody? Do you just believe every word a salesman tells you? Or a politician? Ah, yes conmen love you! And P.T. Barum spoke about people like you, they are born every minute! in the world of so called “healing” evangelist and charismatic cranks there are a lot of psychological tricks, a lot of propaganda techniques and also a lot of flat-out magic tricks these people are using and claiming it’s God. So according to you when we see fraud we should just keep smiling and say nothing! Calling out frauds who use a Christian veneer by adding phrases like, praise the Lord, Thank You Jesus, Amen, Hallelujah etc. Is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Shouldn’t we becalling out those who Jesus warned us about in Matthew 24:23-28? No, according to you let us keep silent. It's amazing to me how so many on your side of the ledger are willing to fight tooth and nail to keep their illusions that these phonies, charlatans, frauds, fakes and flakes who you think are or were men and women of God. All too often trickery is passed off as a miracle. And in your strange world it is a sin to call it out. In my previous post for part 3 I showed how what you say about church fathers is less than meets the eye. I did not mention Augustine. Let’s take a look at him. You promote the idea that he believed in “miracles” but let us take a closer look as to what kind of “miracles”. I read his “Confessions” and “City of God” many years ago. Augustine’s beliefs in miracles seemed to be shaped primarily by his encounter with the relics of St. Stephen. Foremost they were supposed to have been the bones of Stephen spoken of in the book of Acts. It is highly doubtful that these were the actual bones of Stephen. At any rate at the time Augustine was the bishop of Hippo. Previously he had served in Milan. This is from book XXII, chapter 8 of City of God, In his response to the objection that there aren’t miracles in the world any longer. His answer is that miracles do still occur, but they’re simply less well known. Among these he mentions miracles wrought by relics of the saints. His answer is that miracles do still occur, but they’re simply less well known. Among these he mentions miracles wrought by relics of the saints. Then he says: “What am I to do? I am so pressed by the promise of finishing this work that I cannot record all the miracles I know…. [W]ere I to be silent of all others, and to record exclusively the miracles of healing which were wrought in the district of Calama and of Hippo by means of this martyr-I mean the most glorious Stephen-they would fill many volumes… For when I saw, in our own times, frequent signs of the presence of divine powers similar to those which had been given of old, I desired that narratives might be written, judging that the multitude should not remain ignorant of these things. It is not yet two years since these relics were first brought to Hippo-regius, and… those [miracles] which have been published amount to almost seventy at the hour at which I write. But at Calama, where these relics have been for a longer time, and where more of the miracles were narrated for public information, there are incomparably more.” So, this is a legitimate way to get a miracle, to come in contact with the bones and or relics of Catholic saints? Then you mention John Chrysostom was a prominent Christian bishop and preacher in the 4th century. However, I did find this on the web, from the Catholic News Agency, so if you want to find it you may. St. John Chrysostom believed that the greatest miracles were those that took place in the spiritual lives of people. He preached that these miracles were wonderful signs that could attract sinners to believe and repent, and these miracles, God is glorified. (I can say Amen to that). There are also reports of contemporary miracles associated with St. John Chrysostom. For example, in 2007, the skull of St. John Chrysostom was brought from Vatopaidi Monastery on Mount Athos to Cyprus to be venerated by the faithful. Many people with various diseases and disorders came seeking healing and many did not leave disappointed. Two miracles in particular were reported at the time throughout the world: The Healing of a woman with a right foot break. The healing of a ten-year-old boy with hemiplagia. These events were carried by the media. Please note that these reports are not scientifically verified and should be taken with a grain of salt. Now maybe I am wrong, but I don’t think you really believe the relics and bones of canonized Catholic saints has the power to heal. But then again maybe you do. But as I stated in my previous post concerning part 3 of your series by using the early church fathers and examples like this does not in any way shape or form prove your case. When in fact it is the opposite, it weakens your case. In fact, it makes you look really bad as in your haste to recklessly “prove” the “cessationist” case wrong and yours correct you have made strange bedfellows with strange and bizarre practices. By suggesting that these practices are “Christian” and are proof of your argument and have merit and value is to say at the very least it is very misguided and extremely dangerous. Are these ungodly and unchristian practices really evidence of the “Continuationist” position? If it is WHERE do you find such practices in the New Testament?????

[@thorodinson2017]

The thing is, you have no scripture to back your point of view. And are limiting God. What about the missionaries that go to Africa or these other countries and heal people. They pray for healing and people grow back limbs right in front of their eyes. I guess that's Satan and not God proving who HE is to people who never heard of Jesus. You even experienced things and still don't believe, which is sad. The spiritual gifts are laid out in the new testament and says they won't end until Jesus comes back... So I guess He came back and we all missed it??

[@stevenjohnson3883]

@@thorodinson2017 Thank you for responding to my post. You say there is no scripture on my side. Well, let us take a look at that. Let me help you understand my point of view. What about Matt 24: 11 “And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.” (ESV) Or what about Matt 24: 23-25 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false Christ's and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.” (ESV) So false teachers and prophets will be able to perform great signs!!!!! Then again there is: Matt 7:22-23 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (ESV) Notice this is virtually a list of all the gifts that charismatic Christians claim yet despite the performance of such gifts they are NO guarantee that anybody is performing them is actually from God. What about Simon Magus, or Jannes and Jambres magicians who deceived people. And in today’s world there are still magicians and deceivers who pretend to do things in the name of the Lord. So just because some pretends to perform a healing or a miracle I am not obliged to believe them in fact according to the scriptures I should question them so I am not deceived. Which simply means just because someone does signs, wonders and miracles they may not be from God! The scriptures are full of warning signs such as: 1 John 4:1 “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (ESV) So, we are commanded by scripture to search and see if these things be so and to test the spirits. That seems like looking for detail information to ensure that someone is not teaching a false Christ or a false gospel. Or what about Matt 24: 11 “And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.” (ESV) Or Matt 24: 23-25 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false Christ's and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.” (ESV) How do you know you're not being led astray, unless you examine the details, and see if these things be so! 2 Peter 2:1 “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.” (ESV) Again, how do you know they are false and preach heresies? Should we compare what is preached in the name of God to the written word of God? Jude 1: 3 “Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.” (ESV) Notice Jude 1:3 says to contend for the faith that is perhaps what you mean by nitpicking, we must stand up for what is right! Or what about 2 Timothy 2:15: “Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” (ESV) All of these instruct us to study the Word of God and not be sign followers. Then consider, 2 Timothy 3-4: “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.” Then there is the Bereans in Acts 17:11, “Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.” (ESV) They were nitpicking the Apostle Paul. Should we do no less for those who claim to preach the gospel today and have "signs" following them? Shouldn't we at least find out if those "signs" are real and not fake?????? Or what about 1 John 4:1 “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (ESV) Or 2 Corinthians 11:14 “And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.” So, we are commanded by scripture to search and see if these things be so and to test the spirits. That seems like looking for detail information to ensure that someone is not teaching a false Christ or a false gospel or performing false signs. Certainly, every type of church and denomination has had its share of con artists, cheats and charlatans. However, the world of Charismatic/WOF/Pentecostal faith "healers”, preachers, prophets and other assorted hucksters seem to abound on the easily deceived overly trusting congregants who are duped into all kinds of chicanery. When these false prophets, teachers, and miracle workers are just using magic tricks, hypnosis and assorted deceptions I am under NO obligation to believe they are from or represent God in any way, shape or form. Why? Because so many in the Pentecostal/charismatic movement have a deep seed desire to follow God. And they have a deep desire to connect with God on a supernatural level. Most are sincere in their pursuit of seeking a deep relationship with God. Unfortunately, the frauds and hucksters know all the tricks of deceit and how to sell it to well-meaning people. It is not a question of being sincere, it is a matter of being sincerely duped! You said, “They pray for healing and people grow back limbs right in front of their eyes.” What proof do you have of that? I have heard hundreds of stories like that but never found ANY proof!!!!!

[@thorodinson2017]

@@stevenjohnson3883 Again, do you have any proof? Nothing you wrote said healing has stopped. Please, share that verse if it exists. Or any verse that says spiritual gifts stopped? I could point you to all the scripture that says we will have these gifts, but you'll have some more verses that don't refute anything I'm saying. I guess Paul was lying in his writings.... Just bc some people are false does not mean the spiritual gifts stopped. God still heals people even though some step over the line. Those people's faith is in God for healing, not the person praying for them. Your logic is very flawed and closed minded to what God can do. You're basically saying God sits back and doesn't do anything for people who believe in Him. Again, you yourself even had experiences yet still deny it. You could see first hand healing of limbs growing back and you'd say it was Satan.... It's your choice to believe or not. It's just sad you put God in a box like that and limit His power. God isn't going reveal truth to you when you claim He is no longer at work in our lives

[@stevenjohnson3883]

@@thorodinson2017 Once again you seem to deliberately misunderstand and misconstrue what I said. Or perhaps you just didn’t bother to read it. Look at the second paragraph of my original post. I NEVER said healing has stopped. And I never said he is no longer at work in our lives. I will reproduce it here for your benefit. “Just as you do not pretend to speak for all continuationist, likewise I do not speak for all cessationist. To make my personal position clear I can agree that there have been through the centuries sporadic, individualistic or ad hoc manifestations of healings and miracles. As the Lord through his sovereign will may grant from time to time. And some of those things have and do continue into our present time. But nobody has been “walking” in those gifts like the Apostles since that time.” I am not sure what stripe of charismatic you are, such as Word of Faith, Pentecostal, full gospel and so forth but I was part of the Word of Faith movement following Kenneth Hagin in particular and his fellow travelers. So, I will answer you as to what WOF teaches. And they teach that healing is in the atonement. Which is wrong! If the WOF teachings are true, then: When Paul gave advice to Timothy about taking a little wine for his stomach’s sake why didn’t he remind him that healing was in the atonement and all he had to do was claim it? Why didn’t he tell Timothy per Mark 11: 22-24 just to speak to that problem or mountain and claim his healing? Or remind him to use the God kind of faith? Or why didn’t he remind him you could have what you say? And to speak healing. Use the God kind of faith and fix your stomach. Why did Paul leave Trophimus sick? Why did he not pray the prayer of faith to get him well? Or remind him to exercise his faith? Or why didn’t Paul remind Trophimus of the same things I mentioned about Timothy? Concerning Paul’s thorn in the flesh I know there is much debate over exactly what it was. If it was a sickness again, why did he not claim the healing that is in the atonement? Or pray the prayer of faith? Why did he not speak to that sickness and command it to go? If the thorn was persecution or some other problem, why didn’t Paul speak to it? Whatever his problem/mountain was he never spoke to it. Apparently, he didn’t know you could do that! Isn’t it curious he NEVER spoke to his problem as the WOF teaches? Apparently, the man who wrote most of the New Testament was ignorant of WOF principles because he never taught them or used them! When Peter raised Doras from the dead, he never chided anybody for not using their “authority”. Nor did he instruct anybody to use their “authority” to raise the dead. If WOF teachings work so well where are all the documented healings? Where are the third party verified healings of those who have organic conditions and took WOF principles and put them into action? There are a lot of “testimonies” to be sure but largely based on subjective experience. Let us see the verified third party confirmed healings. Where is the empirical evidence? With the WOF being taught for so long there should be thousands of cases. Where can we find them? Again, you say you have seen or heard that there have been limbs growing back again I ask you for proof, you did not provide any. Since the inception of modern Pentecostalism in 1901 can you name any well know “healing evangelist” you think was the real deal?

[@MikaChen-gl5gt]

Remnant Radio should create a copy of the Bible that has all the specific verses highlighted that pertain to miracles. You guys could highlight different contexts with different colors. For example, you could use one color to highlight text ABOUT miracles and use another color for text that directly says a miracle happened. The e-book could be used to visually show how much text is devoted to the topic of the miraculous. I'd recommend getting a CGI artist to create an animation of a flattened or splayed view of that entire Bible. The camera view could show an animated zoomed in view and a zoomed out view.

[@MikaChen-gl5gt]

You could also use another highlight color for text that shows many miracles happening.

[@maxmustermann1206]

Be sure to separate them into 2 categories. Those God does, and those done through a human being with the gift of healing.

[@jimmu2008]

Effectively saying that only Calvinists are Protestants is unreasonable. It seems at least as reasonable to say that cessationists are not Bible-believing Christians.

[@SteveMontjoy]

If you look at 1Corintians 13 you will find that the only time the word gift only appears with the gift of healing in the original text the other times the word is in italics meaning it was added healing is the only one called a gift they are all called manifestations of the Spirit

[@edeancozzens3833]

Is it possibly true that to follow Jesus more closely we need to stop playing conventional church. More like a Country Club than Jesus.

[@tpw7250]

Ive noticed its rare that any cessationists give any robust/scriptural push back in the comments. When they do venture in, its usuall an argument from experience. Charismatics are weird = no gifts today. Thats not a Biblical argument

[@tpw7250]

@@JBly4 Do you have an example?

[@tpw7250]

@@JBly4 Can you give me just one example? Even copy and paste it?

[@tpw7250]

@@JBly4 Thanks, I'll look it up. You also wouldn't be the first one to come off stronger than intended on a youtube comment section.

[@tpw7250]

I looked at the comments you referenced, and I have a few observations. Firstly, I commented early on and made the point that people didn't come to Jesus as opposed to His power being restricted. Secondly, the passage isn't one I'm aware of cessationists using to make any point regarding the gifts, so I don't know if it represents remnant radio not tackling the arguments fairly. I've read a fair amount of cessationist articles and watched many hours of content and debates on the subject, and it would seem to me remnant tackles the best of the arguments as presented without strawmen or misrepresenting. If they are, it would be cleared up quickly if someone like Justin Peters ever mustered the courage t go on their show. Thirdly, you obviously made a judgement call that they are arrogant. I don't know if that is or isn't true. What I do know, when I hear John MacArthur and those around him talk about charismatics, they have more than match if not exceed anything from the remnant guys that may be interpreted as arrogance. That's not to say its good from either side, including myself. And I know I have been guilty of it.

[@October31st1517]

Are you reformed in doctrines.

[@kristanrussell9931]

Honestly this shouldn’t be a thing as it is clear in scripture

[@The_OG_MP]

Remnant Radio: hat edition.

[@RachelRamey]

You know what, if they must call me "not Protestant," oh, well. I believe I'm Protestant, but it doesn't ultimately matter that much. My goal is not to be Protestant, but to be biblical, so I don't really care what they want to CALL me.

[@spiritfilledstudy]

Are we sure being a cessationist, especially an educated one, and denying the good news of the kingdom coming to earth in power to empower us to the end of the age isn't a deal breaker for being a brother and sister in Christ? Didn't the bible say the children of God are the ones led by The Spirit of God? What if you believe God doesn't communicate to us anymore? How are you led by God when He doesn't communicate any longer?

[@maxmustermann1206]

"denying the good news of the kingdom coming to earth" Who said cessationists denied this? That's a straw man argument.

[@spiritfilledstudy]

@@maxmustermann1206 If I stopped there it would be but the rest of the sentence says to the end of the age which they deny.

[@SteveMontjoy]

Come on guys, the healing is the gift, not a ministry that goes around healing people. God gives the healing as a gift.

[@girlintheglen]

All of the gifts of the spirit are present throughout all of scripture except for one that is given exclusively to the church: tongues. I heard one Southern Baptist pastor reply to an inquiry about speaking in tongues, and his answer was what deligiitimizes the entirety of the cessation argument. He replied 'I don't speak in tongues so it can't be true'. Ignorance isn't bliss, it's just ignorance.

[@krazzykracker2564]

Yep that is literally the whole reason behind it. Its basically "I don't see our church operating in gifts therfore its wrong." Maybe its pride idk.

[@TomAsterley-ho7dw]

Hi guys. You need to get some charismatics and cessationists in the room together who aren’t freaked out by one another and can start the discussion from a place of “ What’s the truth? Based on the word of God How can Christs body be built up by our discussion?

[@TomAsterley-ho7dw]

I’m not taking your bait Paulral

[@crypticproger]

Josh was on the Cultish podcast. That’s how I found this one and so glad I did!

[@ravissary79]

As they've said, they can't even get dialog with cessationists on the program.

[@Inharmonics]

The arrogance in demeanour from many of well known cessationists (including some in this documentary) is quite striking to me. I don't mean that by way of some special discernment, it's rather quite apparent from their tone and manner. I know there are exceptions, and I've met some gentle and curious Christians one could broadly categorise as cessationist, but in terms of more renowned ministers there's unfortunately this general characteristic.

[@dylandean5043]

Hebrides revivals- crazy charasmatic stuff but then u realize they were all presbys🤯🤯

[@Tonibolognaaintnophony]

What am I called when believing the whole Bible is teaching life lessons with stories to understand the meaning to apply to life, but Jonah wasn't swallowed by a whale or any other craziness? Including the Trinity, & hell?

[@brianbriggs2183]

@TheRemnantRadio since when is Josh not a Calvinist?

[@Chupie77777]

Josh, you keep calling it "Cessationism" instead of "Cessationist" 😂

[@toonnaobi-okoye2949]

Aren’t both correct? 🧐 the former is the ideology and the latter is the person who identifies by the ideology, no?

[@Chupie77777]

@@toonnaobi-okoye2949 yeah when hes referring to the title of the documentary, he uses "cessationism" but the documentary is called "cessationist"

[@toonnaobi-okoye2949]

@@Chupie77777 oh, right. I guess potayto potatoe then 😅

[@stevenjohnson3883]

Just curious as to your sources for the “history” you proclaim. For example, at about the hour mark you mention Robert the Bruce you say he was in the 16th century. And you say among other things that he moved in the gifts and especially prophecy and so forth. And you mention he was big in the Scottish Reformation. The Scottish Reformation is dated as 1560 marking the official break from Rome. If as you say all these things about Robert, the Bruce were true he would indeed be truly remarkable because Robert the Bruce died in 1329, which was 231 years before the Scottish Reformation! But you say he was a big mover and shaker and healer WOW a dead guy did all that??? His dates are from 1274-1329. 13th and 14th centuries. He won the battle of Bannockburn in 1314 that assured Scotland of its independence, eventually it was formalized in 1328 with the treaty of Northampton. I guess for a dead guy he might have been hearing the booming voice of God and indeed moving in the gifts of the spirit!!!! This information is so easy to find on the web for anyone interested. You criticize those who make the film as not knowing their history, you only missed it by two and a third centuries!!!! How can we trust ANY of your so-called history???? Is the rest of your history this shoddy??? Please provide sources for the stories you tell. I sat on this for a while to see if you would correct your mistake but so far nothing.

[@michaelmiller5024]

That was my mistake. We'll fix that. There was a Robert Bruce who was a prophet in the reformation. Just confused them because they had the same name. We did provide the source material though. It's all in the Scott's Worthies.

[@stevenjohnson3883]

@@michaelmiller5024 Thank you for giving me your reference “Scott's Worthies” by John Howie., sorry I missed that as you present a lot of information in a very quick manner at times. Are you speaking of Robert Bruce of Kinnaird 1554-1631? First, that is an obscure book by an obscure author. That doesn’t make it right, or wrong but just curious outside of this work is there any other collaborating evidence? My training is in history not theology. Nor do I claim to be an expert in any way shape or form concerning the Scottish Reformation. And just wanted to say that fake news is nothing new. History is replete with many examples. Throughout history there have been many works of dubious value. Even at times what are called primary sources can be of questionable value. And I have read plenty of them. All too often people have an agenda and are out to denigrate, protect or promote various reputations and facts at either end of the spectrum may be ignored or used in a fashion to make their respective cases. Just like in theology take any subject or historical figure and there are multiple opinions and schools of thought. All too often people think of history as being open and shut, it is not! And without trying to get too deep into the weeds the job of a historian is to sort out facts from fables. And as much as possible the historian looks for more than one source. Single sourced stories more often than not raise a lot of red flags. Much more could be said but I will drop it here for now. To make my personal position clear I can agree that there have been through the centuries sporadic, individualistic or ad hoc manifestations of healings and miracles. As the Lord through his sovereign will may grant from time to time. And some of those things have and do continue into our present time. But nobody has been “walking” in those gifts like the Apostles since that time. So, if these individuals you name in the Scottish Reformation operated at various moments in the gifts, based on my position I have no strong objections to that per se. But I what I am after is as much as possible is varication, concerning historic or current events. It is also interesting that in your presentation you also go on and on about this being “Braveheart” and reference the movie. But for the record Mel Gibson plays William Wallace a contemporary of Robert the Bruce and fought as a guerrilla in the Scottish war for independence. He died in 1305. It is a fictionalized account. Word to the wise don’t take your history from movies! I could count on one hand movies that are historically accurate and even then, often they mix in fiction to help make it more dramatic.

[@michaelmiller5024]

@@stevenjohnson3883Jack Deere's book has more citations. Read "Surprised by the voice of God." John Howie is not obscure. Your bias is showing when you quickly assume stuff like that. Yes we made a mistake on the Robert the Bruce which I admit and will rectify but let's not confuse that with me getting my history from Hollywood. That's just insulting. Show a little charity here. The fact is history isn't on the side of cessationism. It was an invention to discount Catholicism.

[@stevenjohnson3883]

@@michaelmiller5024 Touche sir, as I read your answer, and your points are well taken. I shall take into consideration your points about Howie’s work and the reference you provided. And I sincerely ask for your forgiveness in saying what I said about films and history. Indeed, I went overboard. To use an old saying which has many variations dating from the same general time frame I spoke in haste and now repent at leisure. And as far as I am concerned this matter is closed, and I await your next video.

[@raphaelfeneje486]

You'll value the power of God when you go to the lost in some remote villages! Go ask a missionary what they've encountered in those places. You'll beg God for power!

[@JesusRodriguez-gu1wv]

Technically according to Jordan Cooper if you are evangelical you are not Protestant.

[@ravissary79]

That doesn't add up though, because the modern new-calvinists are proudly reformed and protestants, but also self described evangelicals. As do most Baptists.

[@JesusRodriguez-gu1wv]

@@ravissary79 right but they apparently drift from original protesters doctrines that according to him are foundational. Thus they become separate from the reformers. He considers anyone not of the Lutheran, Anglican, presbyter scene as protestent. Maybe put baptist in there.

[@Chupie77777]

This was frustrating. I feel like its completely pointless to argue things like, "You're not a protestant. You're not this or that." Its completely irrelevant. Is the goal of the Christian to be protestant? All its doing is throwing a lable on people in order to demonize them. Who cares who is "protestant" or "catholic" or "orthodox" or whatever else? Be a Christian who loves Jesus and follows the scripture. We can argue about whats biblical and true, but to base an argument on a mere lable is unnecessarily divisive and illogical. You're whole response could have been, "Okay, so what? Lets say we're not real 'protestants.' Now respond to the arguments and lets look at scripture."

[@RachelRamey]

These arguments about the gifts dying out *late* (beyond the apostolic era) are even more bafflng to me than most. Because if the gifts are supposed to have died out *beyond* the time of the apostles or the writing of the last book of Scripture, then what's the theological reasoning for it? At that point it becomes completely arbitrary.

[@marionayers9726]

I go to a charasmatic church, but my problem with the charasmatic movement is that the theology opens you up to be super gullible, and you believe everything a so-called "prohet" or "apostle" says. "Oh, you said you raised over 500 people from the dead? Then it must be true!" If you dont believe it, you are looked down upon like you're 'blaspheming the Holy Spirit.' In the charasmatic movement theology its so easy to take advantage of people. All you have to say is. "God told me" and bam, your pastor ends up with a minor. There are so many scandals in the charasmatic movement, and charasmatics are quickly to brush them off. Something isn't right about this whole movement, and my discernment meter is off the charts.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

You may be interested in our Policing the Charismatic Movement playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PLMsjeViSScFHSZqA1Q85VKxRrkvEYXBec&si=KY_VM7MgCPHkCSNC

[@thanevakarian9762]

Have these guys still not been willing to come on, or have you guys on? It’s like they are so afraid to have a genuine conversation and only want to have controlled out of context responses without feedback or clarification. Also if they genuinely believe half or more or charismatics are heretics or condemned shouldn’t they be doing everything they can to communicate to you and be trying to save you? It’s a really weird vibe I get from these heretic hunter types, like they’d rather be right than save a fellow Christian.

[@Perktube1]

I wouldn't mind being a Calvinist, as long as Hobbes is included. 😉

[@MrPaulmark19]

Based on the 4 part series of The Remnant Radio on "Cessationism" Documentary and the Conference that will happen next year in the United States, I came to a firm conclusion that I will not personally watch nor even give a dime for this documentary Movie. Just Like Strange Fire Book (although I made my review on that). Wala kasi ako Ibang mapapakinggan kundi their lame reactions, and lame excuses to justify their faulty interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:10 and how they twisted the Church Fathers in order to justify that nullity of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, Signs,Wonders and Miracles and their seemed rejection of Mark 16:15-20 just because of misused practice and interpretation. Currently, I was stunned by the statement of one of their panelists who said that "If you are not a Cessationist, you are not Protestant." So no wonder why a well known Pastor came out in the open and say a nasty Word against Cessationism (together with Complementarism) and label 60%-70% of Evangelical churches that hold that view as "Religious Spirit" especially Churches that don't have Women Pastors, he called it "Religious Spirit" I don't agree with that to be clear and to me that's Slander. But haven't we wonder why they are like that because of statements like these?

[@edeancozzens3833]

Which church would Jesus feel most comfortable in? I'd say that if you're are a Cessationist you have walked away from Jesus and what the Scriptures clearly teach.

[@edeancozzens3833]

@@JBly4 The gifts are Jesus in open manifestation. Can't separate the two. And if you will notice Jesus Himself flowed in the same gifts of the Holy Spirit that are available to His true followers.

[@edeancozzens3833]

@@JBly4 Jesus and the Holy Spirit are One. That's what the trinity means. Hear Oh Israel our God is one.

[@jeffengstrom8657]

No such thing as "dying out" gifts. The notion is stupid. Watching you guys try and debate this with cessationist ideas is like watching two blind guys box.

[@ChristinaBiasca]

The issue with this logic that Rome is bad therefore anything that happened is bad... is that our BIBLE is from that time period that they're insulting.. If you want to discredit them you would undermine the Bible's integrity. Clearly we don't believe that. We also believe the christians of that time had integrity and was not perfect, but we're serving the same God.

[@jmo900]

I really believe cessationists are in serious trouble with the Lord. Why? Because the Book of Acts, Romans 12, 1 Cor. 12 &14 are God's Word. We are warned NOT to take away from God's Word. The Holy Spirit told Paul how to use tongues, interpretation of tongues, and prophecy in the church in 1 Cor. 14. Paul states at the end of this chapter "forbid not to speak in tongues." Paul said he spoke in tongues more than anyone at that time. Paul was a tongue talker and would NOT be allowed in many churches today. The "perfect" in 1 Cor.13 is NOT the finishing of the canon of scripture. It is when we receive our glorified body like Jesus. We will NOT need those gifts at that time. Faith and hope will cease and love will remain forever. We will be in heaven. There is no need for the gifts, faith, and hope when we are in the presence of Jesus. Jesus used the gifts of the Spirit, He could not have completed His ministry without them. Finally, all were filled with Spirit on Pentecost. This promise is to Gentiles also. We are "the afar off" in Acts 2. Please read Ephesians that proves we are "the afar off." Calvinism is a false Gospel. You and I have free will and can choose to accept Jesus as savior or not. I chose to accept Jesus as savior. Millions have resisted the grace of God. Salvation is conditional upon faith in the Gospel. Jesus died for ALL the world. God in His foreknowledge knew who would be saved because God lives out of time. BUT He still sends the Spirit to convict ALL who hear the Gospel. They must hear the Gospel first. John Calvin is NOT in the Bible. Please stick with what is in the Word and do NOT add to it.

[@maxmustermann1206]

"The Holy Spirit told Paul how to use tongues, interpretation of tongues" Tongues according to Scripture are known human languages. They are not ecstatic gibberish. I've never seen a Biblical demonstration of tongues: "If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God." (1 Cor 14:27-28)

[@maxmustermann1206]

"Calvinism is a false Gospel. You and I have free will and can choose to accept Jesus as savior or not. I chose to accept Jesus as savior. " 1) Calvinism never was a Gospel. It's an argument from Scripture about what Scripture says on certain topics. 2) Of course we have free will, but it's limited. (Read "Bondage of the Will" by Martin Luther) You played NO ROLE in your salvation. Scripture make that clear. Read Ephesians 2. "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And THIS IS NOT YOUR OWN DOING; it is the gift of God," (Eph 2:8) You played no role in your physical birth and you played no role in your spiritual birth. You were dead in your trespasses and sins until God made you alive in Christ. (Eph 2:1-5)

[@maxmustermann1206]

"Jesus died for ALL the world" Depends on the meaning of "all the world" If you mean everyone, then no, that's not true. Read John chapter 10. "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep (v11)...I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep (v14-15)...but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep (v26)." IF Jesus lays down his life for His sheep AND He says those Pharisees are NOT His sheep, THEN Jesus did not die for those Pharisees. AND IF He did not die for those Pharisees, then Jesus did not die for everyone. IF Jesus did die for everyone, THEN most of the people He died for will be in Hell. (Wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction.). Then God's plan of salvation was a massive failure. But, thankfully, the Arminian doctrine of "Universal Redemption or General Atonement" is clearly false. As note above, Jesus only died for His sheep. Matthew 1:21 "She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save HIS PEOPLE from their sins.”" Scripture is clear that Jesus didn't die for everyone. He only came to save His people. So as it turns out, God's plan of Salvation is perfect because He only died for, and saved, his people.

[@mlj6293]

And to say Remnant radio and Sam storms and others are not Christian Brothers is outrageous!

[@mlj6293]

Yep snobbery

[@tannerfrancisco8759]

I outright deny being a protestant. Why, as a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, would I want to be associated with Catholicism, Orthodox, or Protestant?! These are the 3 lumps of dough which are permeated by the Kingdom of Heaven until the whole is leavened. But false teaching also permeates those lumps until the whole is leavened. That parable is immediately followed by the parable of the wheat and the tares. That shows us that in the field or in these lumps, some will be genuine believers and others are false converts. So while you may have grown in a field of Catholicism or Protestantism, those lumps are ruined, polluted, and you (hopefully) are a part of the Kingdom of Heaven contained within that field yet set apart from it. Protestants have so much bath catholic garbage still left in their theology that you should actually be throwing out the baby with the bathwater rather than trying to cobble together a new body of Christ from cancerous tumors like some Frankenstein monster. Just because you can point out somebody else's error doesn't mean that your pet heresy is better.

[@michaelekemp6679]

How do you believe in magic but not the operation of the gifts😂 Unless they're saying it in a hyperbolic way, in which they just undercut their own argument as to what is actually happening when charismatics "practice the gifts". Also, I would love to see them do actual investigation of healing claims, without being completely disingenuous and deliberately focussing on those claims which obviously are false. The words "anecdotal evidence" get thrown around a lot, but with no actual investigation into the veracity of said evidence. I'm here for open discussions, but discussions aren't open, and aren't really worthwhile discussions at all if we're not proceeding from a basis of truth-seeking.

[@Contessa27]

Cessationists are unbelieving believers.

[@JimiSurvivor]

Our goal is not to become perfect exemplars of "Protestantism" but to become Christians according to the standards of the faith "once and for all delivered to the saints." The Reformers and Lutherans got some things right but in building their respective theological systems they used "materials" from the false teachings of Augustine many of which came from outside Christianity and did not measure up to the apostolic building code

[@EllenSmyth]

Nephilim!!!!

[@JH324]

This documentary has ensured the Biblical truth that the gifts have ceased.

[@thejohn17project15]

You keep saying they didn't read the "source material" but I have to be honest and say I doubt that is the case for all of them. Personally I think they are very dishonest and sinning by slandering and baring false witness.

[@michaelmiller5024]

The makers of the documentary have admitted as much. It's not slander when you are stating facts.

[@case.johnson]

@@michaelmiller5024 ​To be clear, I think the commenter above was saying he/she thinks they are intentionally lying. I doubt the documentary makers admitted that, right? Maybe they admitted to not reading church fathers and such?

[@michaelmiller5024]

@@case.johnsonah...🤦🏻 sorry.😞

[@dustinneely]

How many "prophetic leaders" have to fall before you guys wake up?

[@shaunbutler238]

Unbelievers are saying the same thing about cessationists when their pastors fall. Humans fall.

[@jeffengstrom8657]

The ONLY way you can be a continuationist is by redefing and/or dumbing down the gifts.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

Every time someone is healed. Cessationist call it a "miracle" not a "healing". Every time someon is lead by God to do something cessationist call it "God's providence" not "prophecy". Sorry buddy, cessationist are the ones redefining gifts and dumbing down the text of scripture.

[@MikaChen-gl5gt]

​​​@@TheRemnantRadio Lol. I've always pointed out how cessationists would get an impression or conviction about a matter but they refused to acknowledge that THAT is revelation or prophecy. They obviously redefined the words

[@ArcticBlits]

Interesting that you came here to make an argument from error and not scripture. PS “sign gifts” are a redefining and dumbing down of the gifts

[@theeternalsbeliever1779]

Ironically, the cessationists are the ones who redefine or dumb down the gifts.

[@jeffengstrom8657]

@@ArcticBlits I never said "sign gifts"

[@jeffengstrom8657]

The scope of the debate is too small no matter which side of the debate you are on.

[@toonnaobi-okoye2949]

How so?

[@jeffengstrom8657]

@@toonnaobi-okoye2949 Let's take tongues for example. To understand why this gift is no longer given you first must define it. Now I already know the guys at Remnant radio can't do this with anything other than that which is ambiguous at best (I even think they know this). So, if you cant even define your terms your stuck in a rhetorical kwagmire from the getgo. They don't rightly divide the Word of truth in 1 Cor. 14, heck, they don't even know that the context there demands this. They don't understand that Paul was at his craftiest in formulating that passage. They don't include the condition of the Corinthian culture in their approach to the "tongues" problem there. As a result you get a mish mash of what tongues is, might be, could be, and are. The individual particles of barf from a fat guy's binge at the Golden Coral are more dicernable than their nuggets of what tongues is, might be, could be, and are.

[@Mrguy-ds9lr]

I like how you guys make fun belittle c9ndescend to your" brothers and sisters" and because you keep say8ng we love you its supposed to make it alright. Disingenuous, in bad faith, brothers and sisters!

[@frankc-k3q]

Continuinist ; walk into their church crazy jiburish 😂 Cessationist; walk into their church peaceful and in self- control 😀

[@tpw7250]

Have you ever heard the expression 'strawman?'

[@joelarmies]

Been to Assemblies of God? Been to Calvary Chapel?

[@joelarmies]

Been to Methodist? Been to Moravian?

[@tpw7250]

@joelarmies I have actually. And to many cessationist churches.

[@tpw7250]

@@joelarmies Also, are you making an argument out of experience. Obviously a limited one, or from the Scriptures regarding the gifts?

[@Mason_O]

Become cessationist

[@raphaelfeneje486]

You'll value the power of God when you go to the lost in some remote villages! Go ask a missionary what they've encountered in those places. You'll beg God for power!