Thermodynamic Water Heating Panel System - Dundee - Angus - Scotland

[@ecohomeinsulation2614]

The refrigerant fluid has a boiling point of lower than -15 so works perfectly in low and freezing temperatures. It obviously is more efficient in warmer temperatures but using this technology and offsetting the power used by solar pv is an excellent choice and will give great returns. great video and excellent product. Regards

[@derekcfoley]

Very interesting and thorough video! Answered all my questions about this type of system after discovering Thermodynamic hot water during my usual search while considering solar thermal...

[@ejbh3160]

How much electricity does the compressor use? And surely if you have solar pv that electricity is free? Can it be put on a timer to only run in daylight?

[@catparka7698]

Hello Scotty - great to see your historic install, but even better to see your responses to people's recent queries. Well done for being bothered! I'm currently considering this option for my off-grid midi-house that i'm building in a swamp in a rain-forest in New Zealand. Thanks to your diligence, i've no questions to bother you with - just wanting to send you the best from Aotearoa - the Land of the Long White Cloud. Cheers.

[@emmockladdie]

Thanks for the support and feedback, much appreciated, good luck with your development. Things are going totally nuts here in UK with EVERYONE facing massive gas and electricity charges. There's going to be many thousands die this winter as they cannot afford to heat their homes. It's a terrible situation. Govt did not do anything about insulation and crap policies for renewables have meant people are not able to fend off price rises. I feel guilty, we have lots of firewood and our small, but effective, systems mean we are sheltered from the worst. Electricity and gas (and water,) should not have been privatised. I hope things are better where you are. Alien Weaponry are a heavy metal band from your country that we love, they are awesome! Would love to come across and check out Hobbiton and the other LOTR locations. Stay safe and best wishes to you and yours.

[@catparka7698]

@@emmockladdie Hey! I'm sorry about how things have gone for the UK. I lived there for six years when Mag the Hag had the reins and i've no regrets about moving on. Times could be hard then, but you could get around, you could have fun, and the people were real. Spent a little time in Scotland - i'm half Colonsay McNeill and remain committed to Lagavulin and porridge. You look like you've eked out a way to have meaning and control in your world and we have done the same. You say you feel 'guilty'. We don't, but we're incredibly aware of how privileged we are to live a 'simple' and happy life - largely through our decisions around what actually matters in life. Get that right and you can enjoy a wee dram of the good stuff now and then. How feel you regarding the recent upheavals - first with the Inde. Ref. and following with Brexit? Is it time to make a break? PS: even though you're a Metal-head... you can add Taranaki to your list of destinations if you head Downunder - we live in a LOTR forest and we've a spare horse-hair mattress. Cheers.

[@emmockladdie]

Bit of a random pessimistic reply coming: It was a sad day when Labours John Smith died - he was popular, trustworthy and strong. Labour then let the SNP get a foothold here and the Tories down south and now we have 200000 covid deaths and a complete mess of an economy and terrible poverty in all towns and cities. I have seen first hand how China have accelerated the demise of the planet. When I saw the construction magnitude I was honestly filled with dread. They are feeling the pain themselves now with rivers drying up. I thought it would be our son fighting for survival but I think it will be upon us all too soon. I had 2 news items ping on my phone the other day ... The release of angry birds 2 game and an announcement that all mankind is doomed ... Quite a contrast. The SNP talk a lot but have delivered very little, the Tories have crippled normal folk and kept their millionaire mates very happy. Scotland can't afford a health service if it were independent - tax income is pathetic. People are trying to release equity in their homes to pay the bills now. It's grim.

[@catparka7698]

@@emmockladdie Thanks for the warning - without it I'd not have recognised that as 'pessimism', just Scottishness. Um yeah... I don't get all millennial on it, but I don't doubt that we're in the initial stages of significant upheaval. As an animal, I don't find it particularly problematic - you know, the ebb and flow of life on Earth where everything's destiny is to be a fossil curiosity. As a human, however, I'm enormously fucked off by our conduct where it could have been otherwise. For a species to have invested so much for so long in behaving badly seems unconscionable - and still we're at it! What's left to those who give a shit remains as it's always been - do everything one can to stand on the right side of History (so no, I don't have any advice for you on the best crypto-assets to add to your portfolio). I'm sorry to hear your assessment of the SNP. I really know little about them beyond their continuing advocacy for Scottish independence - something I support, for better or worse, if it's what Scots want. Fergus Au Fait, my highly intelligent border collie co-habitant, agrees. We aren't alarmed by the prospect of the Great Leap Backwards - which is probably a little smug and selfish because we've already taken it. I'm not sure as to whether the burden of guilt that should accompany being thoroughly contemporary is something I'd wish to bear.... Perhaps the 1960s and 70s were the last time it was possible to enjoy human achievement and 'progress', thanks mainly to a general lack of awareness of its consequences. Even F1 seemed cool back then! Now it's necessary to re-examine everything (exciting, in its own way), and embrace the potential of neuroplasticity by weaning oneself off Lagavulin because of the deleterious effects on the peat-lands. It's been over two thousand years since Socrates asserted that 'the unexamined life is not worth living'. So, haven't we done well?

[@Ladybirdsin16mm]

@catparka7698 Hi, i'm in New Zealand too (northland). Considering this kind of setup for a new small house im building. Would love to hear what you went with, and how it's doing. Pls let me know. Thank. you

[@emmockladdie]

Cheers Rob - a colleague of mine was speaking to German friends and they say the thermodynamic panel is catching on fast in Germany. They have lots of people with PV panels so linking these two together makes great sense. I think a bit of everything is a good way to go as you cover all the bases. Wind next for me perhaps. Best regards

[@MrTonyHeath]

I've had this running for about 6 weeks and it is wonderful. Even when the temperature outside was below freezing, the water was at 55 degrees c. When it was installed (free by the French gov.) the water went from cold to hot overnight. *****.

[@emmockladdie]

Free? Vive La France ... UK govt. Would not add this tech to their list of approved low energy systems, probably because none of our crooked government had any shares or directorships in the companies.

[@geoffreyplenty7491]

Hi, we had one of these systems installed and so far it does what it's supposed to. The problem we have is one of noise. When the compressor is running there is a significant buzzing noise. The tank went into the old airing cupboard where the immersion tank was but it's in a bedroom. Had I known about the noise I would have had the wretched thing put in the loft! We have tried putting noise insulation material round the control box but it doesn't really work. A bit of a pain.

[@lufcwls]

We had one of these systems installed last month and are MASSIVELY regretting it for the same reason. The noise is unbearable! We have ours in the loft and it just resonates around the house! I have done so much researching about this system since and you seem to be the first person mentioning the noise as an issue, how is this the case? Why are everyone bigging up this system when the noise/vibration is so ridiculous!?

[@nially85]

​@@lufcwlsI would blame the installers not the kit. I've installed 2 for people and they're not noisy. Some installers don't heed the paperwork

[@lufcwls]

@@nially85 The unit was faulty, they’ve come back and replaced it so it actually gets to temperature now within a few hours so we have more silence than before. But, when it is running, it’s still noisy 😩

[@nially85]

Fitted a few of these for LVP renewables in Republic of Ireland. It's a great piece of kit. I don't understand why it's not standard in all new builds. It costs the same amount of money to run as a couple of fridges!!!

[@emmockladdie]

Recently?? We got ours years ago. Quite a few folk ask on here where/who can install. Good to hear this tech has not been 'deleted'. Thank you for your message.

[@nially85]

Yeah last year. They've streamlined the compressor unit on the side. Other than that they haven't changed. I'm in contact with the UK and Republic of Ireland licensed suppliers.

[@rayhill397]

Hi Niall,. what kind of costs are you looking at for one of these systems for a small 2 bed bungalow ( I'm in Ireland), thanks

[@emmockladdie]

The system uses 580 watts per hour ONLY WHEN the compressor is running so the figure you see online of water heating for 33p per day is about right if the system is running for four hours in total. I tried it your tip of putting the sytem on a simple timer and it's good ... set the timer for 10am to 5pm so any solar PV electricty generated will offset or even cover the water heating. Thanks for the tip there.

[@MrJackbms]

Hello I am thinking about installing a similar system including central heating. My question is related the compressor. How much noise and vibration does it produce? Thank Jack

[@emmockladdie]

Ours is in loft - not above a bedroom BTW. I can hear it gently whirring when stood in hallway. Untrained ear might not notice. Some noise isolation would be required if you want silent running. Tank is lagged but not the compressor - you could do that to quiet it down but not sure about overheating possibility.

[@MrJackbms]

@@emmockladdie thank you for the answer. Why did you go for this solution instead of a more classic heat pump?

[@emmockladdie]

Too many moving parts in trad heat pumps and at the time the costs were comparable. Yearly servicing reqduired on trad pump - not spent a penny on maintenance or servicing for Energie system since install.

[@MrJackbms]

@@emmockladdie I have the same thinking process. I'm looking for a supplier and installer now

[@DelightfulTravellers]

Great video. Well done! We really loved it.

[@jwcl88]

Interested how your thermodynamic system getting on. I want to do a installation

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Jonathan. It's working perfectly (touch wood) - it's not had any servicing since day one. Ultra-reliable.

[@jwcl88]

@@emmockladdie Who was your installer, are they still around since your installation nearly a decade ago? Can you send me their contacts, not many installers about

[@emmockladdie]

They are long gone mate. Once the solar PV feed in tariffs stopped lots of companies baled out of the renewables area. Arsehole government not certifying this system did not help matters. Sorry I don't know any installers. It's not complicated but beyond my plumbing skills.

[@lufcwls]

We had ours installed last month by a company called Noreus. So far we can not recommend this system though, mainly down to the compressor being so loud/shakey.

[@ejbh3160]

Thanks for the feedback I would imagine that the cost will be considerably less to run during warmer months, so you will probably have to see what the average is over a year. A friend has just got one in Spain & the compressor of his system is only 250W so that's probably down to it being considerably warmer in spain & thus picking up more ambient heat for free. I'd imagine your running costs will fall considerably during summer months especially if you extend the hours of timer on free PV power

[@jameswalsh899]

Hard to understand opposition and skepticism about this system. I have an Energie Thermodynamic installed 5 years ago. The power is connected thru a time switch. System is on 5 hours during the day. It has worked perfectly since installation. Hot water for sink use and showers for 3/4 on demand. I have never used the back up immersion. Location Meath in Ireland. A happy customer.

[@emmockladdie]

Hi James - I agree - i think it was a justification or an excuse for the govt to restrict RHI outlay by not approving this technology. The refridgerator has been around for over 70 years - this panel is the same technology but its not in a white insulated box. Vive l'energie !

[@quinlanmicheal]

Hi there is so much talk about these systems not working. Who installed your system? How much is your lecky bill now? Really want this technology to be as good as it makes out to be. How did it perform over the winter. Really appreciate your time to check my comment

[@lufcwls]

Where are you finding this talk? Because I only seem to find people raving about this system. That is NOT the experience we are having. The compressor is ridiculously loud/shakey. It's like having a dehumidifier running in the attic.

[@davyanderson8654]

Have you ever needed to replace the refrigerant? Our system has stopped working. Think might be something wrong with the compressor. Cant even hear it.

[@emmockladdie]

Hiya. (Touch wood) Not had a single issue with it. It's as noisy today as it was on day one.

[@AveKebab]

What temperature does refrigerating agent (or panel) has after a few hours of sunlight exposure during winter? It is all about COP score. 3 COP -> you produce 3kW of heat from 1kW of electricity. The higher temperature of agent that goes into heat pump the better. I consider ground heat pump and this system. I am not sure how well this panel absorbs heat from the sun, there is really no data on it.

[@emmockladdie]

Hi. In winter it takes longer to heat the water as it is coming in from the mains at very low temperature so I reckon COP of 2 in winter. In summer it's a much faster turnaround of a 200litre tank, COP of 3 or better. Panel does not have to face the sun it could be in a loft space but it all happens quicker if the sun hits the panel.

[@AveKebab]

@@emmockladdie cop 2 is same as average air heat pump or even worse. Maybe with 2 or 3 panels would be better

[@AveKebab]

@@emmockladdie it still puzzles my mind. Theoretically, those panels are exposed to sun, so it's temperature should be higher than air, therefore, cop of solar heat pump should be better. So far from what I've heard it's not. Strange

[@Larryloafer488]

Hi, been a while since an update, is the system still performing well?

[@ek9772]

There is a Sunden heat pump with an efficiency of 78% for heating water, and they are, also, used for hydronic radiant heat. They both seem to have some common elements, but a bit different as well.

[@ehabtuffaha4083]

My question is what is power consumption ??? Is it worth for example to heat 300 liter of water how many kWh required ???

[@emmockladdie]

Hi - all still going well despite sub zero temps pretty much since xmas. Had a power meter attached to the system last week it used 3 units per day - honest! Hot water use was fairly light last week though - just 2 showers, one bath and usual sink washes and pot washes - been too cold to get regularly wet up here! Run with some PV or wind this should be a very economical system - cheaper than my oil water heating which cost us £1.50 per day. 1 bath per week was good enough in the 70s mind

[@re1752]

Hi is this still working well? What's your long term feedback please?

[@emmockladdie]

@@re1752 still working the same as it did the day it was commissioned. Quite unlike the piece of crap biomass boiler we got to replace the oil boiler. Panel does hot water, biomass boiler does central heating. You win some ... you lose some. Storm Arwen gave us a solid fuel windfall so can't complain.

[@re1752]

@@emmockladdie many thanks for your reply, looks an interesting piece of kit to consider. I think we are going to go for a woodstove with back boiler and a thermal store, was looking at solar thermal until i came across this.

[@emmockladdie]

@@re1752 if you have a read-only priced wood supply then backboiler is a good choice, we didn't go that way because living room wood be an oven during summer when you still need some hot water for shower etc. Neighbour was at country show at ingliston week ago and saw a small wood boiler device for hot tubs that just did a gravity circulation (hot rising/cold descending) sounded so simple I am gonna investigate. Good luck man. It's really tricky picking what to go for. We are a bit experimental as we are not in gas mains and want to avoid oil. All the best.

[@lufcwls]

Hi @@emmockladdie can you advise where you have the thermopod unit/compressor installed? It looks like it is in your loft from the video. How are you finding the sound? Ours is completely unbearable!!! The low vibrating hum is driving us mad!

[@4bHotel]

So U now have 6 years experience. IF U didn't have PV and were running it using grid electricity, how much per year do U think U will have been spending on your leccy??

[@emmockladdie]

At the end of february I should know if this februarys electricity usage is any higher than last years. At the moment the compressor comes on at strange times of day and night - the cylinder must have a thermostat in it so it powers up to maintain the temperature.

[@rambajekal7562]

Hi, not sure if this page is still actively looked at by the author. Just wanted to check something - if we instal a thermodynamic heat pump system and don't use it for three years (as we are traveling), is there a risk of the system going bad from 'disuse'. For information, the place this is installed is a hilly region in India where the humidity is modest. Thanks

[@emmockladdie]

Sorry Ram - I could not answer that with any certainty. I don't think we have ever had a day when it's not been switched on.

[@lennyrossa834]

you had this for years now,how is it holding up for you ? im in Ireland so climate is the same. im moving into a house start of next year and am thinking of this route for water. the noise wont be an issue for me as ill sound proof the room it will be in.and prob in future install pv panels for electic. what has the servicing been like etc. thank u for the video

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Lenny - touchwood ... No servicing AT ALL since bought and not one minute of down time - honestly. What I cant be certain of is whether it's running as efficiently as it was when installed ... You'd need a scientific kind of approach and find the exact outside temperature again. All I can say is that there has always been hot water on hand. Well actually ... For first year or so I had the system on a timer to only come on when PV panels were potentially generating - kind of an 'off grid' approach. After a year or so, especially in winter, we found that the water was not always ready (hot enough) and I didn't like the idea that the controller, pumps etc, were powered on and off in this way every day so we decided just to leave it on 24/7 - 365. That's really coincidental that you messaged as last night I was going through an admin draw in a cabinet and I found the Energie installation and running manual ... I didn't even know we had it, never looked at it - I hope you haven't jinxed me pal. I don't know anyone locally or further afield who has one of these so I can't compare notes. The govt. Don't support it for some reason but we are certainly glad we went with this. Having separate water heating from home heating is good as in summer this just plods along and our woodchip boiler (replaced oil one) sits happily idle. Best regards. Richy

[@lennyrossa834]

@@emmockladdie ah man,i aint jinxed ya, i like to ask and talk to real people that has experiance with the product,rather than these companies with 40sec ads. i was thinking would pellet burner but i got access to alot of scrap timber etc so backboiler stove the way for me. thank you for the reply

[@emmockladdie]

@@lennyrossa834e too never buy firewood for our stove - loads of fallen trees all around us but a back boiler needs the stove on and burning hot and in summer (even here in Scotland) having the stove on from May thru to September is not necessary - room/house gets too hot. That's one of the reasons we chose a separate water heating system.

[@malcolmnew8973]

Might seem an odd question but could one make a combined solar PV and thermodynamic panel..to produce solar electrical power and hot water at the same time. I know there are already conventional hybrid PV solar thermal panels but this would be different. The cooling function of the thermodynamic part would make the pv part much more efficient, at least while the compressor of the thermodynamic panel is running and cooling the panel. Seems obvious unless I'm missing something?

[@emmockladdie]

A timer on the thermodynamic panel is all you need, set to switch on in daylight hours. Summer is fine but the problem is winter where there is less sun and the thermodynamic needs to run for longer as ambient temperature is much lower. PV still offsets the cost though to some degree.

[@jensrasmussen3648]

@@emmockladdie what he means, is have the pv panel laying over the thermodynamic panel. This way, the latter will cool the former and both will produce energy in the same area. Does the thermodynamic panel have to be in direct sun? The pv panel will produce some heat, not sure about how much in the winter.

[@emmockladdie]

Theoretically the thermodynamic can be anywhere but if it gets some sun it will thaw the frost quicker and the cycle speed will be faster. It can take many hours to get a tank of water up to temperature especially when the incoming water is very cold already. In hotter climes the thermodynamic panels are in racks, no need for them to get direct sun. A winters day in Scotland has a very short window of decent weather.

[@jensrasmussen3648]

@@emmockladdie There are some PVT systems that have the pv and thermo panel integrated, not sure how they work. In one, the thermopanel is similar to a convector radiator having a lot of surface. The heat generated by the pv panels is used, although it can't be much in the winter.

[@jimwaugh94]

Hi Im looking at something like this for my HW and Im in Ayrshire how does this work in the depth of a Scottish winter? do you have to boost it with an Imerser ?

[@emmockladdie]

System has seen 9 Scottish wintres so far and never had to boost it once Jim but we aren't big on showering TBH. A 'stand up wash' everyday and a shower once a week (to wash the hair) is our usual. Young lad showers daily. If you use a lot of HW then larger tank would be advisable instead of boosting. It's in loft anyway so you would not want to be going up a ladder everyday. Got it back on a timer now and have it allowed to run from noon to 8pm. No bother so far.

[@jimwaugh94]

@@emmockladdie after I messaged i realised this is a form of air source heat pump. Do you have any idea what the cop is on your single panel.

[@emmockladdie]

@@jimwaugh94 Hiya ... Not sure. Don't know how to measure it. Might be something in Energies literature ... If I knew where that was.

[@georgiangelov2764]

Hi how does a perform on winter when is minus temperature? Do you have to alternative way to heat on water for hitting the house? Thank you

[@emmockladdie]

26Sept.2021. Panel can extract heat down to minus 15. For here on East coast of scotland it has maybe only got that low a few times ever so not worth having a secondary heating system. A bad day in winter here is minus 5 Deg. We have a biomass boiler but we keep that for heating our radiators. Wood burning stove in living room helps keeps house temperature stable over winter. Best regards. Richy

[@neptunepropertyservice6315]

Do you ever have any issues of the panel freezing up in a similair way that Air source heat pumps exchangers do and then need to run through a defrost cycle? I saw in the end of the video that it had frozen up a little, does this make any difference to the performance?

[@emmockladdie]

That's just frozen condensation on the outside faces of panel and pipes caused by the very cold chemical going in to the panel. You only see it on humid winter days. As the chemical warms to outside temp the ice disappears. That heat is then recovered in the unit in the loft and the process repeats. The coolant liquid inside has never frozen solid. I think worse ambient temp we have had here was about minus 10. System is supposed to be good to minus 15.

[@MrTonyHeath]

I've now had it for nearly a year and it is wonderful. My electricity bill is well down. It is just a pity that the other part of the deal (a pellet boiler) has been rendered unusable by the pellet supply and price problem.

[@emmockladdie]

Our pellet boiler is on the blink so very relieved hot water is on a separate system. Good to hear your thermo-d panel is doing the biz. In all the hub-ub about energy saving methods, I can certainly say that the thermodynamic panel tech has NEVER been mentioned. 3 months and the temperature will be on the rise. Best wishes. Richy

[@calumwardlaw457]

Considering one of these systems the 250 eco one I am near stirling, how have you found the kw consumption for usage?. Do you have a rough idea of what cop your seeing in winter?.

[@calumwardlaw457]

The main issue I have is I would need to install myself,

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Callum, the only number crunching I did was years ago just to see how much electricity the system used when it was compressing/decompressing. It's at the bottom end of the video description. 580watts per hour. I'm no plumber so I would not attempt this myself but if you know someone that can charge the refrigerant you should be good. Never had a second of maintenance since we put it in. Good luck dude.

[@calumwardlaw457]

@@emmockladdie tbh I am handy enough at most things and my future father inlaw has changed out boilers before the only 2 issues that concern me was operating cost through winter but coning from an immersion boiler it should be far cheaper and gassing the compressor, panel and lines but again reading the instructions it doesn't seem hard. It's a 2nd hand system never been fitted but it's all there for 500

[@emmockladdie]

@@calumwardlaw457 bargain! If you have the space you could put it in alongside what you already have and then once running disable the old immersion. It's such a simple concept 'fridge turned inside out' - way simpler than these heat pumps they are trying to push. Damned if I am gonna rip out all the microbore and put in bigger radiators. Got stung with the pellet boiler we have now (replaced the oil combi we had) - way too many moving parts and combustion gas sensors and all that guff. Good luck my man. Let me know how you got on.

[@emmockladdie]

@@calumwardlaw457 btw I have not had to do anything with the refrigerant since it was commissioned.

[@woody1403]

Hi emmockladdie, does your system have a pressure reducing valve fitted to the cold water inlet pipe? Mine does and I have noticed that the attached gauge shows a pressure of 3.5 bar when there are no taps on, but as soon as I open a tap this reduces to 1.0 bar in a matter of seconds, reducing the flow to a trickle. I would appreciate your feedback before I contact the plumber who installed the system.

[@woody1403]

I got my installer back and he fitted a new PRV and hey presto the water pressure is back to what I had before the system was installed, happy days. He did say that he'd had a few issues with PRV's on some of the systems he'd installed.

[@emmockladdie]

Woody140 That's good to hear, thanks for letting me know,

[@MargaretDeas]

Hi after watching your video which was very informative I decided to investigate further into this system, which by the way I am keen to install. Have found a few forums which don’t rate it at all, talk about companies going bust and maintenance problems and cost to run it, I find it all a bit confusing and if it’s this good why isn’t it out there, just like air or ground source heat pumps and it’s not backed by Governments. Can you help unravel this minefield please

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Margaret, our experience has been fantastic. Not a penny spent on maintenance. Only problem we had was a drop in water pressure that was solved by cleaning the filter (in the plumbing part) that I should have been cleaning once every two years. Q. Do you ever call out an engineer to a fridge? A. No. This system is a fridge in reverse but the heat transfers to a water cylinder instead of being thrown away.

[@roberthobson3738]

Hi again. the system I described is a bit elaborate but I think that some way of supplying solar heated air to the panel in winter might work well. I like the idea of the thermodynamic panels and would like to see them succeed.

[@zenden8030]

How much did the panel and tank cost? Can you heat your entire house with just one panel?

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Zenden. The tank, compressor, panel and install was £5500. It's only for water heating not for central heating. We have a woodchip biomass boiler for that now instead of the oil boiler that the video shows. £5.5k sounds a lot but this has been very efficient and it's had ZERO maintenance costs. I am an architect to trade and I also like experimenting and working towards carbon neutrality. This was also us separating water heating from central intentionally as we don't need central during the summer as wood burning stove is enough to keep chill off on a few summer nights.

[@malachy1847]

@@emmockladdie I was looking at Inverter Controlled 'American' Hybrid Heat Heaters well over a decade and a half ago but never bought one, they seem to be all the go now.. you can even connect duct work to same, to extract warm moist air from the bathroom then its fired across a condenser coil and dumped out as water drain...and if you want feed back cool dry air into the bathroom, hopefully your unit is still Chugging along great upload...kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5i1pomnlquIfJo

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Michael - really early days pal - system has only been in 5 weeks. Hit the 'Show More' button on the video information above. None of this is new technology - it's just a clever application/reversal of the standard freezer. Freezers last for years so I'm hoping this does too. Putting it on a timer so it only runs when ambient temp is highest should help reduce 'wear'. January was rarely above 4 degrees C here and we had perpetual hot water.

[@jamesgreig5930]

Very interesting. Looking to install similar in Nort Fife. Would it be possible to speak to you about your experience? Cheers Jim

[@emmockladdie]

What's your question Jim?

[@jamesgreig5930]

@@emmockladdie Just wanted to know how it was performing and if good could you put me in touch with your installer in Dundee? Thanks Jim

[@emmockladdie]

@@jamesgreig5930 Hi Jim - yep it's running just as good as it did the day it was installed 11 years ago. hard to believe I know but honestly it is. Not spent a single penny on servicing or maintenance in that time - because it's just a fridge turned inside out. How long do fridges last ? = ages! Our installer was a Glasgow company, they are still in business but they don't do this system any longer as far as I know. Solar Electricity Systems (Springhill Parkway, Glasgow). Luckily we have not had to call on them anyway. A recent comment dropped in a name of a company in Ireland that install: LVP renewables in Republic of Ireland. Might be worth speaking to them. www.lvprenewables.ie/eco-unit/ I would buy this system again in an instant even if it meant getting a squad across from Eire. Best regards. R

[@jamesgreig5930]

@@emmockladdie Thanks very much for all of that. J😀

[@shadow4]

Emmockladdie can you please let me know how you set to switch on the system on timer while mine I have to manually turn it on at the control panel whenever I switch the power supply off. I have the same system as yours.

[@CobaltNorthernStudios]

@emmockladdie do your pv panels directly supply electricity to the thermodynamic system or they supply excess power back to the grid to reduce your bill? Also how does this differ from an air source heat pump? thank you

[@emmockladdie]

Hi David. We used to have a timer on the thermodynamic system so that it only came on when the PV panels were at maximum possible output (for us 11.00 to 17.00) - once our young lad became a teenager that kind of changed as he would have a stupidly long hot shower at the wrong time of the day and we were finding there was sometimes no hot water left for us next morning. So we now just let the thermodynamic operate 24-7. PV is a great thing to do but it does not receive the generous tariffs it did 5 years ago - you are doing it for the planet now and not for financial return. Efficiency wise I think the thermodynamic and air-source are pretty similar 3 or 4 units to 1 - what sold the thermodynamic to us was the lack of moving parts - air source heat pumps have a rattly fan that pulls the outside air in to the unit so it can transfer its heat to the refrigerant. Best thing to do with PV is to use everything you generate. Your house will have a base load - usually fridges and heating system controls that the PV will supply fine during the day, the trick then is to make sure you use washing machine, electric shower *, cooker, tumble drier, hoover, kettle, dishwasher during the daylight hours when your PV is generating - and NOT AT THE SAME TIME - wait til the washing machne has finished before hovering etc. All the other stuff in most houses now is pretty low voltage - like the lighting, TV's and stuff - they hardly use anything now. Anything that isn't getting used at any moment goes back to the grid. Being a real stinge what some people do is get something like a dimplex heater and leave that on during the day when they aren't home - it will use up the PV power you generate instead of it being absorbed in to the grid. You get paid on a PV system for 2 things - the Feed-in Tariff (the bribe for you investing in the system to reduce our CO2 footprint) - this is the earner. The other payment is really pathetic payment that equates to 1/2 of your annual electricity usage paid at something like 0.3p per KW - it's not really worth the paper-work (which the electricity company does anyway). * Electric showers use a ridiculous amount of electricity - a 4KW PV system would only help with half the load of 1 shower. Get your air source or thermodynamic and use the stored hot water for showers and baths. All this stuff is good investment for the value of your house. If we had the land we would have a huge wind turbine and everything - lot of cheap small Chinese turbines that look pretty decent - now might be the time.

[@suenutt7627]

A friend of mine, in his 80's, was sold one of these. Blatant case of mis-selling but he got nowhere fast through any avenue. One of the main problems is that he was told, if it needed maintenance, it was just the case of replacing the compressor, the likes of B&Q would have what he needed, and any plumber could do it. He's having problems, the company that sold it to him, 1st Energy, has gone out of business, and when he contacted a plumber they said they couldn't help. Any other suggestions guys, please? If you've had problems, who have you used to repair the system? Thank you.

[@roberthobson3738]

Solar evacuated tubes work well in winter ( above ambient anyway ). I was wondering if the two could be combined. Thermodynamic panel work with air so a water to air heat exchanger (radiator) needed for the tubes. The system I'm thinking of comprises two vertical lengths of ducting (chimneys) connected top and bottom to form a loop. Thermodynamic panel placed half way up one side of the ducting and the radiator half way up the other. Don't know if it would work but is interesting.

[@lesliefleming3782]

Hello! We recently installed an Energie Thermodynamic water heater similar to the one in the above video. At temperatures between zero and 3 degrees it keeps switching off the compressor and the reserve immerser comes on. There is a high-pitched squeak and the compressor stops and the ERROR LP signal displays. The compressor does not stay on for more than a very few minutes. This does not seem to us to be OK, and the firm that installed it have already topped up the refrigerant once, but that doesn't seem to have done the trick. Any suggestions?

[@emmockladdie]

I'd demand a replacement compressor as you'll still be under guarantee. Winter is on us now - you'll be on immersion all the time if you don't get it replaced - defeats the purpose. I have not experienced such problems as far as I am aware - but your situation will make me and others more vigilant - good luck.

[@lesliefleming3782]

emmockladdie Thanks for your advice - I'll let you know what happens.

[@PJ-zx4uo]

Great video and very informative. Do you have to maintain a certain water pressure in the compressor? If so how do you top it up?

[@emmockladdie]

It's mains supplied. Completely maintenance free.

[@emmockladdie]

Compressor coolant pressure dealt with inside the unit. If coolant leaked we'd soon know about it. Not had to touch that yet either. best regards.

[@ehabtuffaha4083]

Can you tell me whats temperature of thermodynamic panel it self once ??? Cause am thinking to do something based on your answer

[@emmockladdie]

Hi. The temperature of the water that comes out of the taps is 55 degrees. As long as outside temperature is above minus 14 degrees the system can recover heat. Best regards.

[@ehabtuffaha4083]

@@emmockladdie you didn't get me, am asking the thermodynamic panel itself which is outside whats the expected temperature ??? Can I use it to cool one separate system ???

[@emmockladdie]

@@ehabtuffaha4083 it is a heat transfer system for heating water NOT for cooling anything.

[@ehabtuffaha4083]

I know but am thinking out of box

[@vampywiz17]

Hello emmockladdie! this system is possible to use central heating? (not basically alone, but tied in a row with a gas boiler)

[@emmockladdie]

It can but you would need more panels and big accumulation tank to get the temperature up to a central heating level. My little system is for 55 degree washing water.

[@vampywiz17]

@@emmockladdie Thanks the answer!

[@emmockladdie]

Hiya rather not discuss the price online as it will tempt some to slag us and say 'ha you could have got it for £whatever'. The RHI is not yet up and running on the domestic systems, it should kick in late spring/summer. The installers anticipate £14000 payback so we will more than double our money (hint). Kit itself not worth what we paid but it's key to getting the RHI do$h Compressor is a bit noisier than a fridge freezer, it's in loft so we don't notice it.

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Stuart - the saving is in the cost of the oil I would have used instead. So it's a saving TO ME in overall costs ... not a saving a saving on my electricity bill. Does that make sense ?

[@mrcadman6983]

Hi, how is the system doing now? Am thinking of using in new build Passive House in Perthshire. Any feedback, good or bad, would be welcome. Thanks.

[@emmockladdie]

Mr Cadman ... all good so far. it is working fine. we just got a biomass boiler installed which could have heated the water as well but we just went for cenyral heat for the biomass. having the thermo panel means the summer months are covered for water heating and we then supplement that with the pellet boiler for winter central heating.

[@mrcadman6983]

emmockladdie - thanks for update, glad it is working out for you. You never quite know with a new product. You seem to imply one panel may not be enough for winter hot water in your neck of the wood? Not a problem for me since, as you have decided, can always be supplemented from another source.

[@emmockladdie]

Hi - not got a figure for the electricity usage yet, should be same as a fridge as it's doing the same thing (I hope). I've got a usage meter device that I'm gonna try on the power supply - I'll report back. You are right - you could in theory put it on a timer. There's enough of a water store to easily deal with a familys use for a day and then let the solar panels generate the leccy to offset the compressor use.

[@ehabtuffaha4083]

Hi did u get indication about power consumption kWh ???

[@paddydoyle9679]

Hi, do you mind me asking, what are your annual oil savings now in liters and/or cash? and is there any maintenance problems or costs?

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Paddy.The year before we installed the panel we used 1200 litres of oil. this year we have used about 500 litres (tank is over half full still). So we are looking at a saving of £400 PA for our system. Our household does not use a lot of hot water compared to some people - we don't shower daily (stand up wash is the country way) and we don't wash towels and sheets every day like some do. we have gone back to washing the pots in the sink - never use the expensive to run di$hwa$her now because there is always some hot water there. So people that do use a lot of hot water would see an even greater benefit than us. Water is noticeably hotter now as we crawl out of winter. We have not encountered any maintenance issues whatsoever as yet and there is no annual servicing (like ga$ boiler$). Wall mounted panel, south facing, no overshadowing - give the panel the best chance to gather heat. Solar PV panels are our saviour as the electricity they generate is powering the compressor on the thermo panel.

[@emmockladdie]

The system has a 'boost' button. When you want it to come on straight away and overrule the thermostat. 'Boost' is also the name of a very tasty chocolate snack here in UK.

[@emmockladdie]

HI. It's by 'Energie' - local supplier would give you up to date pricing. We don't have a break down of cost for the actual panel. Whole install was £5.5K - tank with it's compressor, expansion vessel, panel and installation work. Are you in the USA ?

[@CoderTronics]

Hi, thanks for sharing the information. Do you have any idea on running costs?

[@duncrub6192]

can you tell me who you got thermodynamics from as ours have been ripped off in the storms and we are struggling to find a supplier. many thanks

[@emmockladdie]

Hiya - ours were installed by: solar electricity systems 262 springhill parkway glasgow 0800 849 7555 Does not seem to be much of a web presence but give them a ring and see what they say. Let me know how you get on please.

[@duncrub6192]

number not in service, many thanks

[@emmockladdie]

Gawd ... That's us without any service too then I suspect. These guys tend to be a bit fly by night. Maybe across in Europe there could be some form of backup - somebody they trust over here to do repairs.

[@MsRobert1967]

Ilike the idea of it, especially saving money on my energy bills, but I have two issues with it, It is ugly stuck on the side of a building and I would need to know the cost of it so I can work out the pay back time relating to bills,

[@lufcwls]

Also bear in mind the sound/vibration of the compressor. Our house is only 6 years old and a bespoke build, not a housing estate new build. We live in a very windy location so there are many more roof beams than usual, which you would think would lead to a dampening of sound and vibration from the compressor, however that has not been the case and the low vibrating noise has been unbearable.

[@shadow4]

Guess it's my setting then. If you want to change the water temperature press and hold on/off button and the setting button at the same time for about 3 secs you will enter into maintenance mode. Then keep pressing the setting button until you come to water temperature setting. There are several parameters there which can be changed. Then use the arrow up and down buttons also known as the comp and reserve buttons to increase or decrease the temperature. Once you're happy leave and it will save n exit.

[@andyo8147]

Hello mate, I a really keen to know if you still have this installed at your house.

[@emmockladdie]

Yes. And it is working perfectly to this day.

[@emmockladdie]

Check recent comments. Plumber in Ireland is doing installs. Might come to where you are. Simple system. No fans. No annual servicing. Economics to run ... Not suitable for central heating. We just use it for hot water. Totally overlooked tech.

[@voodoo2337]

How much have you paid for it?

[@davelemon-ie4sn]

How has this system performed over the last 10 years?

[@emmockladdie]

Flawlessly and not a penny spent on servicing

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Chas - we aren't alone with this system then! Ours didn't ice over that I saw / or stop working but that's maybe because we never run it at night which I presume yours will be, late shower etc would make it kick in. If it runs at night then the panel will be colder than surrounds meaning any moisture in the air will go to the panel as it is the coldest thing = more frost. The timer would at least make sure you use more of the tanks contents and then replenish the next day while you are out.

[@anthonytuffy4892]

Where to buy it thanks

[@lesliefleming3782]

Further to Emmockladdie's advice to press for a replacement compressor I should mention that our panel is mounted on a northfacing wall in a 2metre wide passageway. The fitters' advice was that it was not necessary to mount the panel facing south, but we could mount it on a south-facing roof if that helped the recovery time. IF the panel relies on solar radiation then it would surely be better in a south-facing position even in freezing overcast conditions? l

[@emmockladdie]

It certainly would not have to work so hard to 'gather' the heat if it got some direct sunshine on the panel too. It might stay covered in frost all day in it's current location - I would definitley get it moved if you can.

[@lesliefleming3782]

emmockladdie Thanks again - it can certainly be moved to the south roof, but there it could get covered in snow, whereas in its present position the panel is sheltered by the eave. How about TWO panels?! - and if that might work should they be in "series" or "parellel"?

[@lufcwls]

@@lesliefleming3782 We have 2 panels and they are fitted on top of each other. After a month since having this installed though we would not recommend the system due to the noise of the compressor.

[@lufcwls]

@@lesliefleming3782 We have 2 panels and they are fitted on top of each other. After a month since having this installed though we would not recommend the system due to the noise of the compressor.

[@emmockladdie]

hiya. The timer is just a simple plug timer ... TIMEGUARD TS800. I don't know if I was lucky that the installer put whole system on a plug - if it's hard wired to a switch then you'd need to adjust that.

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Stuart - had a look at the other posts. Getting RHI was not guaranteed - we knew that, it would have been the icing on the cake. We were needing a new boiler - (2.5K) didn't want to continue our reliance on oil (no gas in my 'hood). Oil boilers need servicing (= cost). EON pays me to heat my water via the F.I.T. payments we get on our solar PV. Without the PV the sums don't look as good. We don't use much water BTW - professional soap dodgers. Wind turbine is next on my shopping list.

[@shadow4]

Mine is taking too long to get to the desired temp. Today even after nine hours it didnt reach the set temperature. I had to use reserve. I saw some viscous fluid from one of the refrigerant's lines could it be leaking? Never install the panel away from the sunshine its costing me alot of money. Tge installer said it was ok to install on the north wall, absolutely bad idea.

[@simonlillyuk]

I had my panel moved from the sunshine to a north facing side house wall by a company called abv solar in Essex (cost a fortune to do) and we have times in the winter where it takes forever to warm the water with a single coil system

[@lufcwls]

Ours is directly East facing and we are having similar issues.

[@macduffy1000]

We had our system installed a number of years ago by a company which has since gone out of business. Unfortunately over the past few years the pressure on our hot water has decreased quite a lot. Were you told how to rectify this problem? If not, perhaps you could let us know which company you had for installation and we can contact them for help. Thanks in advance.

[@emmockladdie]

Hi macduffy - thanks for your message - you got me thinking. Our water pressure is fast then slows to 'normal' and has been like that for a few years. Not really thought anything of it until I received your message. I think our system might need a bit of attention too. There's a blue vessel on our system - an expansion tank' (approx 300 dia and 500 high) this shows the pressure thats in our system at the moment (40 PSI). Have you got one of those? I understand the vessel comes pre-charged with air and that this can be topped up if need be (standard tyre inflator nozzle on top) but since I am not a plumber I don't mess with these things. Since the blue cylinder is called 'expansion' I am assuming it is on the 'hot side' of the system and thus the pressure setting is more a plumbing issue than a problem with the thermodynamic stuff (immersion tank and compressor). There is a tap for letting more water in to the system next to the pressure gauge - I don't remember adjusting this and I'm not going to fiddle with it as things are generally running fine. If it were me I would be speaking to a plumber first ... done that already?? Our installer was Solar Electricity Systems (Springhill Parkway, Glasgow) - they baled out (sorry for pun) from this type of business once all the feed in tariffs disappeared.

[@macduffy1000]

@@emmockladdie thanks for replying. Yours sounds exactly like ours, pressure to start with then it drops. Yes, we have the blue expansion tank but we couldn’t see how to boost the pressure and, like you, didn’t want to meddle with it. We haven’t tried a plumber yet, but maybe that’s what we should do. Otherwise it’s working really well, lovely hot water.

[@emmockladdie]

@@macduffy1000 . Good stuff - at least your hot water is still going. Whoever gets the plumber first write what happened below! All the best from sunny (sometimes) Dundee.

[@octavcotet8832]

SIMON HOW MUCH YOU WANT FOR YOUR FAULTY SYSTEM?

[@RoelofVanMinnen]

Bespaar op gasverbruik met het Energypanel van Tis-Terborg. Het EnergyPanel is een innovatief en toekomstbestendig systeem waarmee u het gasverbruik reduceert. Door voor uw warm water voorziening een EnergyPanel® Thermboil, een boiler met een thermodynamisch paneel, te gebruiken kan tot 20% op uw gas rekening worden bespaard in vergelijking met verwarmen van water door middel van gas.

[@sarsonuk]

Did you ever get rhi payments for this setup ?

[@emmockladdie]

No mate ... Government still not accepted it. System working happily to this day so not losing any sleep over the RHI. would have been good of course.

[@MrJimbob111]

how much did it cost to buy/install?

[@emmockladdie]

£5500

[@emmockladdie]

£5500

[@emmockladdie]

That's a big house you have there £1500 p/a does not sound too bad - I'm split on what I feel - unlike photovoltaics which are tried and tested this panel system is new - the sales people say it's 'free hot water' - it's not - hence the complaints. We have ours getting most of the 600w/h it is using from our solar panels so for us it is relatively cheap - I could see others finding the system relatively expensive to run, still cheaper than oil for us - but everyone's situation differs.

[@sardertanvirahmed4523]

Hey, Is this System Ideal for a Tropical Country ? In the Asian Continent

[@wotcherfaz]

As it's basically sucking heat out of the air yes it should work in tropical places if it works in scotland. However given that you should have much more sunlight maybe a solar based system will give you better value for money. Just guessing.

[@2ne1rule]

Do you know if the company is still in business? Ive tried calling the number, but its not registered. you have any details about the company that you bought this system off?

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Rani - I very much doubt they are still in business. These companies that do the renewables stuff come and go very quickly - cashing in on govt. subsidies and the likes and then baling out of the business as fast as they jumped on it. Because this tech did not get included in the RHI payments scheme then it did not catch on. Shame because it's worked flawlessly from day 1 ... glad we had our separate water heating system as recently we put in a wood pellet fed central heating boiler - that has had some quite major teething problems. Best regards.

[@2ne1rule]

Thank you for the reply. how long have you had the system and is everything still working without problems? We've seen a company in Ireland doing the same system, but reluctant to go with them, prefer to have a company based in the UK. what are your thoughts and do you now of any other company's that install a similar product?

[@johncumming2961]

This looks like an air source heat pump without the fan.

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Rani - sorry I didn't see your reply come in. We got the system installed in Jan 2013 so it's 5 years old already ... seems just like yesterday. Not had a single problem in the 5 years. I am unaware of any companies installing on mainland UK - but that's because I have not looked - it does not mean there aren't any. John Cumming is right - it's an air source pump without the moving parts. If you turned a fridge inside out and flattened it out it would look like this. A fridge extracts the warmth from the box and just loses it to the air in your kitchen. This device absorbs heat from the external air - as long as it's not lower than -15 degrees outside it can absorb heat. The process can be speeded up if the panel is facing the sun - obviously there's more heat to soak up. It can be sited inside your loft if you want. If your family regularly use a lot of hot water every day then you would be better to have a larger water vessel than we have (which is 200 litres) - and possibly two panels.

[@TheGchiu]

@@emmockladdie We have metal roofs with a very hot (in summer) attic space. I presume it could be installed in the attic space as long as you could get the panels there. Pretty sure it's hotter inside the attic space than outside, and you'll also pick up heat from the living spaces that leaks into the attic. I wonder if they work just as well in the attic or less well. I'm presuming it wouldn't ice over in the attic but then you could have a drip tray ...

[@nlpfoundation]

Hi I've just bought a house with this exact system has anyone got the operating manual or know how to set it up please.

[@emmockladdie]

Hiya - finally found the manual - here's a link to a scan of it, good luck. R - drive.google.com/file/d/1JOpz0jluHERllQQy-_DvB-OYRJsqVc5y/view?usp=sharing

[@emmockladdie]

It can go on your roof if you want ... unless you have a thatched cottage or live in a flat. You'll need a company to give you a quote, google ' thermodynamic panel ' - get a local company to come and survey and give yo a price. This technology / solution won't necessarily be economical for everyone.

[@darrenguy4300]

how will this system going get you saving money other than a boiler oil over electricity

[@emmockladdie]

its all explained in the video description, cheers

[@elgrecopr]

Can you share the price and supplyer please

[@emmockladdie]

Hiya - it was £5500 10 years ago! Manufacturer are called Energie from Portugal. Local installer closed their business once solar PV tariffs ended many years back. This simple tech was ignored by the government - just like they ignore a simple insulation policy for ALL houses, flats and commercial buildings in this f****d up country. Recently left meter on the system for a month as sons girlfriend moved in and they were showering more - and at strange times of day due to their jobs. Only using 2.4 units of electricity per day for our hot water supply. I am happy with that. Not spent a single penny on maintenance or servicing in ALL the time we have had it.

[@DaveCattanach]

What a surprise as I wasnt expecting a reply 😊 after 8 ye

[@DaveCattanach]

Years

[@grahamtunnadine4427]

Great. How is it going? What was the initial cost of this system?

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Graham - it was £5500 incl. VAT - and not a minute of downtime in 7 years ... or any servicing costs which is worth noting. Don't know of anyone installing these anymore, people likely to go back to oil heating now that OPEC have screwed their own industry so mightily.

[@ejbh3160]

you are most welcome ;-)

[@adelkandil4069]

Hi mate, Hope you all well I would like to contact you as we really interested of installing same system to our house but I am looking to ask couple questions if possible. Kind regards Adel

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Adel What do you want to know?

[@adelkandil4069]

@@emmockladdie cheers man cost of the system are they any funds here Scotland for such systems if you know and how is the performance of the system so far

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Adel Cost was £5500 10 years ago, no idea how much they are now. Govt would not give it MSC certification (too radical at the time) therefore it's never been included in systems you could get grants for. Works just as good as it did the day it was installed, efficiency is a about 2:1. Uses about 2 units of electricity per day to run. We have 4 living here now, 2 of whom enjoy long showers (grrr!) so we just leave it on 24/7 as it takes a good few hours to replenish 200 litre tank once they have drained it. Not spent a single penny on maintenance or servicing since installed. Gas/oil companies do not like competition. Less moving parts than an air source heat pump. Both make noise btw - compressors - hence in loft on solid, vibration resistant base. No regrets, would install again tomorrow if I had to.

[@DaveCattanach]

So after 8 years would you buy it again?

[@emmockladdie]

Not sure - would probably go for a bore-hole/accumulator setup - we have the space in the garden. Local guy has good reputation for them and air source heat pumps too. It's still going strong and hasn't cost us a penny in maintenance or servicing since day 1. -4 outside here today and plenty of hot water in the tank. Not sure if anyone in UK is selling/installing these - the govt. never gave them MCS accreditation so the sharks stopped trying to sell them. think how long fridges last - that's all this is in reverse. We have a woodchip boiler that we use for just central heating, thats got a connection we can pipe to the tank if we need to so we have a fall-back should the panel die on us. there's pros and cons in any system. best regards

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Woody - just went and checked it for u there. We have a gauge and emergency overflow valve type thing that is fitted AFTER the expansion vessel. The reading on the gauge with no taps on was 2.5 bar ... when I turned a hot tap on nearly full it dropped to 1.75 - nowhere near as drastic a drop as yours reads. Sorry I don't know the proper names for these things - I'm a total ignoramus when it comes to plumbing. I'd get the plumber back for a pow-wow. Good luck.

[@thecridders]

your posts are really helpful as i am surveying homes in the North West of England for a new British made system manufactured in Chelmsford and what is incouraging is that they have dealt with all the issues concerned in this post such as box is standalone and has own heat exchanger so can retrofit to existing tank, is very quiet and has rubber mounts, no complaints so far.

[@tomjones4842]

Was that The Thermodynamic Box? How did you find it?

[@simonlillyuk]

if you are on gas, dont go anywhere near thermodynamic panels. Bought an Energie on and was missold the tank, now there is minimal back up - if you do find back up its horrendously expensive

[@energiethermodynamics7531]

+Simon Lilly Were you miss sold the system ? or was it actually that you contacted the uk company who wanted to visit you to asses what size you required, you refused and bought a system from a company in Sweden who paid a plumber in London to install it even though he had never installed one before.Then after it was installed incorrectly you were told that the system was too small for your hot water demands you decided to blame the product. We have installed Hundreds of systems in the uk and we have also visited numerous properties where they are not working. And 99.9% of the time they were installed incorrectly . Like any renewable energy product,weather you choose a heat pump or thermodynamic system please make sure you have a proper survey done so it is sized correctly then make sure they are qualified to install the product.

[@simonlillyuk]

+energie thermodynamics yes, the company I bought through (they had a uk office when I bought it) said they were the main Energie supplier for the uk, they came and did an onsite survey at the property and obviously didn't have a clue. This is the fault of Energie as they haven't trained their suppliers to sell the correct product and they are impossible to get in touch with.. The ongoing maintenance is a rip off and if you have gas, I would 100% recommend sticking with it as there will be no RHI (that was also promised it would happen) . I contacted another company in Cambridge to get a ballpark figure for a system but they refused and wanted to visit first, it was very pushy sales and I was not ready to make a decision at that time as I didn't know if we would have budget.

[@simonlillyuk]

+energie thermodynamics I don't disagree with your phone advice at all and your conclusion of the specification of what sort of system we should have been installed. What I can't warrant is spend a further £4-5k on replacing the system when a new gas cylinder would be less than half that. I know nothing about the specification of theses systems and obviously nor did the company I bought from - when I had problems after the initial install I was told to read the manual as they didn't know anything !. Everyone then seemed to be claiming to be the official Energie suppliers to the uk, obviously I now see you are Energie uk. A question, why was the water 28 degrees at 8am yesterday after 1 morning shower and before that no hot water had been used for 12 hours ? Generally it's 55 degrees in the morning.

[@simonlillyuk]

+energie thermodynamics what is your number please ?

[@AllElectricLiving]

Do you have a update on this ??

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Chris - just saw your message come in. System has not had a minute of downtime since we put it in and no servicing costs. Worth considering - not sure if any one does this system in UK any more, haven't looked to be honest.

[@AllElectricLiving]

emmockladdie just wondering as there is systems which work with indirect water tanks like mine and I’m considering it, have you measured how much power you put in ( compressor ) compared with what you get out ??

[@emmockladdie]

Hi Chris, definitions of indirect are vague ... This one would indicate that what I have is indirect but since the compressor is actually mounted on the side of the tank it's more a proprietary tank and not one you would buy separately or be there already - www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk/Direct and Indirect Cylinders Explained.htm. As for efficiency that's more difficult to assess. In the video description there's info. I had to base it on how much I was paying for the oil at the time. With the oil price way down now it makes this look less worth doing. 2 for 1 was what we were quoted if I remember right.

[@AllElectricLiving]

emmockladdie I was hoping to get along the line of every 1 kWh I put in I get 2-5 kWh out. I hear water currently from elements and a electric element is 100% efficient so every 1 kWh you put in you get 1 out. I’ve found it difficult to get any kind of data on thermal dynamics

[@emmockladdie]

Hi - yeah - the quoted '2 for 1' meant 1 kw/h in 2kw/h out. Since its a change of state and the input water temperature varies drastically here it's beyond me to work it out accurately I'm afraid. I just know I am comfortable with the way it works and the novelty of it too. It's thermostat controlled, you can run it when you want - put it on a simple timer so if you had night time tariff electric you could just do the water heating then - it does not need direct sun - just a temperature higher than the coolant which is at -15!

[@emmockladdie]

Aye - it's like a noisy fridge. Perhaps a heavier, tighter fitting door on the cupboard and draught excluder strips might help. It ain't gonna get any quieter. Ours is in the loft but we still hear it when it's running.

[@nlpfoundation]

Hi do you have a copy of the operating manual for the system as I've just bought a house with the exact same system and I can't work it out. Cheers Hugh

[@emmockladdie]

@@nlpfoundation I'll see if I can find it.

[@ismscsim]

Cannot find a supplier...??? Looks interesting

[@DaveCattanach]

I am helping a friend, who's building 3 new chalets in the Swiss Alps I built 4 years ago and use a wood burner and 3 solar panels from Valliant which works well but I've never heard of your system and might have gone the same way if I had

[@emmockladdie]

Wow. Sounds like an amazing project. Stay safe buddy.

[@suenutt7627]

A PS: it is not solar panels. He has the unit in a wardrobe in the bedroom, where the old heating system used to be (and it is very loud!).

[@wendyrigby5084]

Hi has anyone heard of Skye New Energy based in Altrincham?

[@stuartsjg]

Hello again, i put some queries to you on the system and the spam filters have incorrectly marked it as spam - would be keen to hear your feedback.

[@sarahb.6549]

360 Watt/h means 3000 kWh/year. That´s 800 Euro on Current costs. Am I right with this?

[@emmockladdie]

if I had it running 24/7 you would be correct ... but I don't. i have it set to witch on to coincide with best time of day for generating pv electricity ... 11.00 am to 5pm. that's just 6 hours so divide your €800 by 6 and you would get how much it would cost us if we didn't have the pv panels too.

[@emmockladdie]

oops ... divide the €800 by 4 ... not 6.

[@mickkampff2445]

Now getting properly tested by MGS, good if you are on oil, not really worth it on mains gas. Will be interesting to see what COP figures are produced by independent testing.

[@emmockladdie]

Thanks for that Mick - I would be interested to see the efficiency figures too. We recently went from oil to wood pellets/biomass - fuel prices are all crazy at the moment for both oil and pellets - not overly happy with the pellet system - too many moving parts - can see trouble in the future. Kept the oil tank - just in case! Glad we have kept water heating separate from central heating - pellet boiler took 2 MONTHS to get working properly - we would have been very dirty people if we had been relying on that for the hot water. It's especially good to have separate systems when the weather is really good as it is now as the pellet boiler has only been needed for a few hours in May and June so far. That was the reason we never put a back boiler on our wood burning stove too. Best wishes. Richy

[@mickkampff2445]

emmockladdie there is a guardian article about this if you Google Thermodynamic systems.

[@wakaphwap]

price?

[@emmockladdie]

hiya. it was £4000. I thought it was overpriced for what you get but it seems to be the case with the systems that receive tariffs or rhi payments that they cost more than they are worth because the sellers know the buyer is gonna benefitfrom payments. we bought in to this before it was supposed to go in to the rhi scheme ... and it never did. still happy with what we did. we are doing our bit for the planet with a very low carbon footprint. we swapped oil for wood pellets 3 months ago.

[@BloggStandard]

your info was clear thank you

[@Lordosvk]

Hello im wondering how you doing in 2021 :)

[@emmockladdie]

All good thanks Martin - system not had a single bit of downtime in 8 years ... and no maintenance costs either - here's hoping it continues that way.

[@poepflater]

I like this, we have a drought, could double up to collect water. Also interested in a ballpark price bracket

[@emmockladdie]

hiya. it was £4000. I thought it was overpriced for what you get but it seems to be the case with the systems that receive tariffs or rhi payments (UK) that they cost more than they are worth because the sellers know the buyer is gonna benefit from payments. we bought in to this before it was supposed to go in to the rhi scheme ... and it never did. still happy with what we did. we are doing our bit for the planet with a very low carbon footprint. we swapped oil for wood pellets 3 months ago.

[@poepflater]

That is half the price of a new entry level car.

[@stuartsjg]

Post 5 Applying the same maths but using 2 gives a running cost of £524.50 per year running cost, or £95.50 per year saving. My savings figures dont account for backup immersion use for sterlisation. In short, i cannot see where you get a £500 per year saving, i get £100-200 per year.

[@emmockladdie]

I don't need to do anything - it comes on itself - might be a setting somewhere in the controls but mine are locked down. I was wanting to increase the water temp slightly but can't get to the menu that allows that - will need to consult installer I think.

[@simonlillyuk]

Can you turn up the water temp from 55?

[@yashpalsinghthakur7171]

System cost

[@emmockladdie]

Cost 5500 all fitted and commissioned - these 'green solutions' carry hefty price tags. Not covered by any RHI or FIT schemes which is a bummer.