Thermostatic Radiator Traps - Steam heating HVAC

Thermostatic radiator traps are used in steam heating systems. They are installed in 2 pipe steam heating systems, to prevent steam passing through and returning to the boiler. We cover the basics of a steam heating system, the boiler, steam trap, condensate line, what is steam, pressure and why we need steam traps.
State Supply is your source for steam and hydronic heating system components, such as steam traps, valves, controls, and pumps (including the industry’s top brands like Spirax-Sarco, Armstrong, Barnes & Jones, and more).
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[@EngineeringMindset]

⚠️ *This video took a long time to make* if you would like to buy Paul a coffee to say thanks, link below: ☕ PayPal: www.paypal.me/TheEngineerinMindset Channel membership: kzbin.info/door/k0fGHsCEzGig-rSzkfCjMwjoin Patreon: www.patreon.com/theengineeringmindset

[@ale15MMv]

I like how you break down the funtion of all the instruments. Just curious if you are able to make a video on welders and how they work internally and how the materials are fused.

[@stevenbernstein1978]

Hi Paul, please create a video on wax motors & thermostats. I believe this is how radiator valves work as well as automobile thermostats & many other devices. Thanks!

[@Potrimpo]

I wish these videos were available when I was in school

[@paulsawczyc5019]

School is obsolete for me - I just go to youtube when I want to learn something.

[@theecstatic9686]

Or even just growing up period....oh the magic of valves....

[@birdkings69]

Luckyly im in school rn. And im finally not failing phisics class

[@catherineharris4746]

YES!👍👍😭😭😭😭😭

[@l.crossjr]

What an amazing explanation. Consider doing the same on commercial steam traps

[@smartman123]

this system like 125 years old and still effective til now

[@polishedpebble4111]

Everything explained clearly. Very nice.

[@TheTubejunky]

That is awesome information. This type of heating while simple is very dangerous! It speaks loudly to the awareness of preventive maintenance.

[@tedlahm5740]

Two pipe system. Clear concise information. Thank you.

[@jjrusty13]

Such a fantastic explanation. Thank you

[@justtinkering6713]

Excellent video. Very detailed and educational.

[@HamedEmine]

Learning something everyday! Thank you!

[@1marcelfilms]

These traps are amazing !

[@albertooresteslopezrosell6560]

Best video I have seen about steam systems.

[@REXXSEVEN]

Excellent explanation. The best one I've seen so far.

[@catherineharris4746]

YES!👍👍👍

[@cranium33333]

I send so many of your videos to all of my technicians. Thank you so much for all the knowledge!!

[@chrisalker1]

Superb video. Thank you!

[@Booksidontread]

Great video, thank you!

[@michelgrenier1878]

Years ago I was servicing a steam system with thermostatic steam traps on the rads and no thermostatic temp controls on the rads , the only control was an indoor outdoor controller ,Working press 1 psi or less , Along with sagging condensate lines causing condensate problems ,some rads would not heat up , That was a hellish system to operate properly . Those thermostatic steam traps were bi-metal disks .

[@millomweb]

That's less logical than wet bellows. Systems I've come across use condensate float valve steam traps.

[@michelgrenier1878]

@@millomweb This system , 100 year old plus had a techmar 269 controller , rads and disc type steam traps at each rad , the valve portion of the disc was a 5/16 ball bearing attached to the underside center of the disk , Very few buildings in Canada are like this , Most are float type traps .

[@joeljentelson3810]

Thank you for the very useful video. I get my system serviced every fall, but I haven't had my traps checked. I believe one of them is stuck closed and a few of them could be stuck open. I'll find out in September because right now, the utility bill is within acceptable limits.

[@rodneyhickman825]

If its stuck closed you don't get any heat . If stuck open then steam gets into condensate line and lowers efficiency

[@travishein]

This explains why the radiators in my university never worked, and some made terrible farting sounds when turned on. The bellows were likely way past their useful operational lifespan.

[@gtb81.]

Had anyone ever told maintenance?

[@travishein]

@@gtb81. Oh. we did many times. we were just students in our faculty. The campus maintenance was a unionized workers and would not even talk to us without a work order, we needed that from the faculty, but then it was something about budget and beaurocracy. well I graduated and moved on so do not know how it ended.

[@gtb81.]

@@travishein wow, it's amazing people can get away with that, hopefully it ended alright

[@RockoRocko-rz7kx]

Or ate beans lol

[@madgorillaedits8011]

You have videos are helpful man 💪💪🔥

[@azhmehmood]

Useful thanks for sharing 👍

[@valluvantamil743]

Thanks dude.. Useful 🙏

[@greekmaster1001]

Excellent video😊

[@indiansmarteducation5007]

Lots of thanks sir for giving valuable time for students , for better understanding topics .

[@ing.anthony7097]

Amazing video!!!

[@jenna-leewessels7139]

Thabk you sir

[@ahmedabdelaleam9542]

Very good

[@rongolgin2864]

Good video

[@edwier6305]

Thank you for the informative instruction. The failure of a steam trap in the closed position is easy to spot. No heat from the radiator. But finding the trap in the open position is extremely difficult, no tenant complains about too much heat! They open windows! What are the best ways to diagnose a faulty trap in the open position?

[@johnguerrero4305]

I have been in the field for 35 years and I’ve seen devices such as sonar and infrared, and my conclusion is: replace the trap every 5 years.

[@MarkRose1337]

Look for open windows? I'd open my window once it hits 20º or so (68ºF)

[@rodneyhickman825]

The best way to determine is by taking temperature of the condensate piping . It should be less than 212 as that would mean steam .

[@Skunkhunt_42]

Damn slick! Any vendors make bellows for these that can be filled with other liquids? Or are they fluid specific bellows?

[@cck1496]

Excellent video. If I am not wrong, "steam trap" and "radiation trap" work opposite to each other? Thanks.

[@shadwenemo1798]

thx

[@HeiderSati]

Great video thanks for making it, is it possible to know how you made the graphics and beautiful animations please? It would be great if you could let me know. Many thanks

[@pogdog5858]

Make a vid on why more windings increas voltage

[@228dlb]

nice video

[@sebbes333]

Why not use hot water for heating instead? Seams much safer, at least in regards to the steam explosion risk, but I don't think it needs to constantly change those steam trap valves all the time. Also, doesn't a steam heating element get extremely hot? (around/above water boiling temperature?)

[@pilotavery]

Steam is used because water releases a lot of heat during the phase transition from gas to liquid.

[@maness2112]

Steam holds way more heat than just hot water.

[@biglightball]

Yeah, I agree that steam systems make no sense, except for the producers of that shitty parts that need to be replaced way too often. For over thirty years I've lived in a house with hydraulic heating system with coal burning stove. For all that time nothing more was needed than burning the coal to get the heat in whole house. Occasionally some additional water had to be let in the installation as it evaporated and these heaters that are highest were cold. Nothing more. I would be extremely mad if I had to replace that idiotic valves every few years. Also I can't imagine how many problems would occur if the heating system in that house would be steam based, not liquid based.

[@rodneyhickman825]

The difference is just the parts that need to be changed. No circulation pumps in steam to work on or fail .

[@casemodder89]

@@rodneyhickman825 i'd rather change a circ pump (x1) every 20 years then serval silly valves every 5 years (xWhat ever amount of radiatos you use !!!)

[@ravijha2122]

Sir 1 video on how filters clears Harmonics, please 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@mabasenaraeb]

Please do a video about PM3 valves 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@indiansmarteducation5007]

Your are great man👍 Your are my ideal teacher ❤️

[@Ter_ror]

I’m well aware of the industrial application of steam heating. But i never knew that it’s also used in commercial buildings, I thought only hot water was used. At least thats what i use

[@maness2112]

@Desktopia alot of really old buildings still use steam heating. Not so much in newer buildings.

[@millomweb]

@Desktopia Can still fit TRVs to steam fed rads - as shown in this video !

[@rodneyhickman825]

@Desktopia is controlled the same way . By control valves . Since steam moves by pressure rather than flow turning off a boiler means no heat in short order . This also means you can take pipes apart without draining any water

[@riteshkumarsamal174]

Please make video on hydraulic system

[@tranquoclan5043]

What does the plug made from?

[@Simply_rat99]

Can you do a section for solar panels and the hookup.

[@joeljentelson3810]

I second that. My city got a deal with a private company that if 25 or more houses get solar panels, we all get a big discount. I want to know if it's worth it.

[@EngineeringMindset]

Seen our new video on HOW SOLAR PANELS WORK in detail kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6nXaGWXec95nbs

[@whoisthis442]

3:47 - high pressure of the system? Is condesate somehow higher pressure than the boiler full of steam?

[@LawatheMEid]

God of science bless you.

[@nikolas8741]

god of science what's his name?

[@KCQ222]

Good video. question tho, any steam system will be latent heat obviously it’s in the name steam so it latent heat is passing through the radiator would this not be dangerously to hot for the end user and could scold the end user, unless obviously these rads aren’t used where people could touch them ?

[@KCQ222]

Could not touch them

[@maness2112]

I love steam.

[@dadillen5902]

So you are hot for steam? Have you told her? She may be burning with desire for you too. You should let her know before she cools off. 😮😣😁

[@goodtiger1316]

@Da Dillen nice comment lol

[@BradyT918]

The steam radiators in my apartment have the inlet and outlet on the same level. Wonder how that affects the operation of the system. Granted I'm on the ground floor and the heating until is in the basement below my apartment buy it feeds steam to multiple floors for 30+ apartments so I don't actually know if the radiators are all the same.

[@Teth47]

Modern systems use hot water rather than steam. Safer and easier to deal with, just use pumps, now that they're cheap and so is the electricity to run them.

[@BradyT918]

@@Teth47 problem is by apartment building is over 80 years old and has many archaic remnants left over.

[@brycenesbitt7201]

That's a one pipe system. This video refers to a 2-pipe system.

[@Poptart133g]

@The Engineering Mindset My background mostly in motion control systems, so this isn't my forte, but couldn't you just get rid of the bellow and use a hollow steel ball that is slightly larger than the diameter of the hole? Add a plastic ring gasket or O-ring on the inside opening of the outlet to help make a good seal. When the water is low enough, the ball would be sitting over the hole, creating a seal to prevent the steam from entering the return. When the water is above the buoyancy point of the hollow steel ball, the ball would float, allowing water to pass till the level dropped low enough for the ball to once again block the outlet to the return. In theory, the buoyancy of the ball should keep a somewhat constant water level on the bottom of the radiator, since the pressure above the ball would be greater, holding the ball over the hole till the water rose enough that the force from the buoyancy of the ball overcomes the holding force caused by the difference in pressure. Again, this isn't my field, but I'm just curious if there is a reason this isn't done, since it seems like a solution that, if plausible, would eliminate the 3-5 year life expectancy.

[@oldhandyluke]

You also need to consider how you can let air pass through the trap when the system starts up.

[@millomweb]

Normal steam traps use condensate float operated valves. Recogniseable by their noisy intermittent triggering to blast condensate through return pipes.

[@Poptart133g]

@@oldhandyluke Thanks, I never considered there would be a need for it until I read that(seems kind of obvious now...). My way if used in a two-pipe system would just pressurize everything before the trap till something failed.

[@oldhandyluke]

@@Poptart133g most of the time, these systems need less than 2 psi to run. The empire state building has this type of system and it runs on no more than 2 psi. Some of these systems in residential buildings can be run on just a few ounces of pressure.

[@Boomchacle]

I have a question. How can steam push the water back into the boiler? Wouldn’t the pressure pushing against the return line be the same as the pressure pushing steam out? I thought it just returned from gravity.

[@totallyfrozen]

It’s a closed system. The pressure has to go somewhere so it moves. As the steam leaves the boiler, it pushes the water that’s ahead of it in the system. At least that’s what the video indicates.

[@Boomchacle]

@@totallyfrozen The steam should be pushing against the water coming into the boiler just as hard as it is pushing the water back into the boiler. I don't understand why there would be a pressure difference here without a pump or by just using gravity feeding.

[@Rishnai]

@@Boomchacle There’s no liquid water leaving the boiler in this design, only low pressure steam (less than 2psig). The liquid phase when working correctly will only exist in the condensate side or the boiler itself

[@jasoncurtis4404]

Ummm well boiler systems are about 30psi. As the pressure increases so does the boiling point. So at that 30ppsi pressure, water could be still liquid at 215 degrees. Residential boilers aren't that hot anyway. Normally around 180 degrees. Commercial uses steam boilers.

[@sumbody694]

This assumes you are running your heater all year round with no stopping. Meaning you are gonna get 3-4 times that in years of use minimum.

[@BOY-ij3sl]

How a transistor work video pls

[@dadillen5902]

They are steam driven. 😁

[@EngineeringMindset]

Transistor video now live: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGXSgGqGicShsLM

[@bah5310]

Do you have a video on a hot deck AHU? They just torn one out and put VAVs with reheat coils in. I'm just the electrician but I can't see how that's going to work. Please enlighten me.

[@maness2112]

There is a vav video done by the engineering mindset. Scroll through the video library archive. It's there some where.

[@rodneyhickman825]

Basically supplying somewhere in the area of 16c of air from Air handling unit then air is reheated at the vav box and if cooling is required then valves closes of flow of water in the coil and the space receives only the cooler air from the air handling unit . Some vavs have dampers that can adjust air flow based on co2 or occupancy

[@David_Avidmind]

Very good and thankyou. PS. The word `bellows' is only ever used as a plural, there is no such thing as a bellow (other than an animal noise)

[@millomweb]

He's been somewhat sloppily inaccurate. He means 'bellows-like' as actual bellows is a device for blowing air into a fire. As for singular usage, the oxford English Dictionary gives: "Now used only in plural: the singular was still in use in 15th cent., and still later in compounds."

[@Freestila]

Interesting. These heating Systems are totally unknown here in Germany. We only use water heating, much more efficient since the temperatures are only around 40-60 degrees Celsius

[@ratuadilFF]

Siapa trap?

[@Eurotool]

Why are radiators located below windows?

[@robinchappatte]

What prevents the use of a sphere which density (in between liquid and gaseous water) would make it float in water (not obstructing the exit pipe) and "sinking" (resting on the circular joint) in vapor (obstructing, therefore closing, the exit pipe) ? (Sorry for the phrasing, I tried to put the TLDR question on a single first sentence, and am not fluent in english) I have no background in material engineering and may be missing something obvious, without which I only have the feeling that this may provide the same "open for liquid water, closed for gaseous water" feature (almost) without any mecanical constraint (the repetitive contact between the ball-like-valve and the joint may not be negligible for the needed hermetic property of the couple), and also easier and cheaper to manifacture, install, maintenance (but maybe less tunable) I'm not commenting often so I'll take this opportunity to thank you a lot for your videos and animations !

[@tedlahm5740]

Second time watching this video.

[@LBTennis]

The more you know

[@makantahi3731]

in car is same principle thermostatic valve

[@marks6663]

here is what I don't get. Steam rads have air vents about half way up. They close when steam hits them and open when they cool to let the condensate drain out so a vacuum does not form. But since when the radiator is operating there is both steam and condensate in them, how does the condensate drain without the steam vent opening? And if it opens with steam inside, then steam is let out.

[@FirstLutheranAlbany]

The condensate drains out because of gravity. The one pipe radiator, if installed correctly, is slightly pitched down towards the pipe. As steam is flowing into the radiator using the top of the pipe, condensate is flowing out using the bottom of it.

[@millomweb]

Why is this design used over the condensate float valve type that everyone uses ? (quieter operation?)

[@FirstLutheranAlbany]

The float type trap has a thermostatic element in it that is basically the same as the bellows in this, but these things are small enough that you can put one on every single radiator. Air venting ability is also a factor.

[@millomweb]

@@FirstLutheranAlbany The float type work by floatation - no thermal element in them. I can't see air being a particular issue as that will be pushed through by the steam pressure.

[@FirstLutheranAlbany]

@@millomweb What kind of float type are you referencing ? Do you have an illustration ? Usually the float drains the water and the thermal element vents the air.

[@rodneyhickman825]

The float type also contains a thermostatic element. These are used of main piping for larger condensate volumes

[@piotrmakowski8016]

Who use this system? Where is it popular? Which countries? In Poland there is only water based system.

[@dadillen5902]

These systems are found in a lot of 19th and early 20th century multistorey apartment and commercial building in the northern regions of the US.

[@rodneyhickman825]

@@dadillen5902 these systems were popular even in 1950s . I work on these systems on semi regular basis . Dealing with steam traps and vacuum pumps etc

[@swedensy]

Looks like basic water cirkulation is 100 times safer.

[@AlexEinfachsi]

In Germany we say "Rücklaufverschraubung"

[@robinkjellberg4323]

Had no idea this exists. How can steam be allowed in residential or any environment where people can get close to the (darn hot) radiators and there's a risk of leakage etc with >100°C steam?

[@lazycarper7925]

please can you help a noob, can somebody tell me if i can wire a 3 pole relay as a single pole, i think thats what i want/need?, i needed a relay to turn on and off from - 24vac,on the coil side-, 240v 35a on the main load , and with out spending silly money i could only find a 3 pole one cheap, thats 35 amps , all i need it to do is when activated by the 24v ac , allow the current of my 240v ac to pass to make the circuit, and that can be just the live or the live and neutral, etc etc if it can be done?, would wiring it so my live splits and goes in to all 3 poles and then out all 3 poles(when activated), to give more current, as its for my mig welder ,(24v trigger), so more amps the better, thank you

[@freeinhabitant2422]

Yes, you can always use a relay with more poles where less are required. Just means you'll have spare poles.

[@ruslanomarov]

When will the video be in Russian?

[@freeinhabitant2422]

LOL _ And Chinese?

[@petechongy]

Glad we don't use this dangerous way of heating homes and buildings in the UK oh and this is so inefficient and wastes so much energy compared to the normal water heating system.

[@EngineeringMindset]

Lots of older homes and even commercial buildings still use this method. I've seen some that used to pump hot oil around the building too, some of these were converted to water systems.

[@wildbill7267]

To the best of my knowledge the bellows on my house’s system are the original ones from 1931. Hmmmm….

[@Creeperboy099]

So basically the reverse of a car engine thermostat valve

[@beachboardfan9544]

5:48 Not at elevated pressures. At 25 psi (nominal boiler pressure, here anyway) the boiling point is up around 250 F. Not criticizing, just think its important to talk about pressure along with temp when discussing boiling point...

[@oldhandyluke]

Most steam heating systems should be running less than 2 psi. I always turn down the pressure as low as it can go.

[@marks6663]

normally a steam rad system uses 1.5 psi, so that is only 1.5 psi above atmospheric. So it boils at 217.34 F

[@oldhandyluke]

@@marks6663 I don't work on very many of these systems but there are plenty of systems that run on a few ounces of pressure.

[@rodneyhickman825]

Where would they be running 25lb steam for heating ?

[@beachboardfan9544]

@@rodneyhickman825 I have base board steam heat that runs off 25psi. The over pressure valve is set at 30psi just like a hydronic boiler system.

[@edfx]

Looks annoying to replace all those valves. Why even use steam instead of simple hot water?

[@KCQ222]

You would mainly if not always use steam in big commercial buildings / industrial estates, the reason for this is its amazing efficiency on a big system because steam is expanded 1,600 than water it creates more efficiency. And because of its heat depending on the bar of the system associating with steam tables and the temperatures/ because of its such high temperature it can give of its heat to much quicker and easier and more efficiently

[@TechTomVideo]

having hot water instead of steam would be too easy, huh?

[@aarone9000]

Why not use induction tehcnology to heat the water?! This is a multi million $ idea!

[@luminousfractal420]

we had them in school back in the 80's. horrible history though. the nuns used to tie kids to them as a punishment in the 50's and 60's.

[@GusCraft460]

That has got to be the least common KZbin video sponsor I’ve ever seen.

[@christiansabrie6170]

A fuir. C'est mal connaître les lois de fonctionnement d'un radiateur, d'un circuit de chauffage quu nécessite un équilibrage. Ce n'est ni.le non endroit,ni.la même méthode pour réguler. Cf.le débit est de fait réorienté vers les autres radiateurs. Pas vers la chaudière dont le débit est par naîture Constant

[@fabianmof3001]

I'm 4th in comment. 😅😅

[@fabianmof3001]

Next video theme. How does it work 3d printer machine ?. 😉😉. Please help for up 'The Engineering Mindset subscribers'. 😆😆.

[@axionx5460]

Second

[@EngineeringMindset]

So close

[@dalekdrummer]

First

[@EngineeringMindset]

Well done

[@dalekdrummer]

@@EngineeringMindset Hell yeah!

[@fathmasameer7523]

11th

[@progamer36]

of course I am not first because engineering mindset is first.... atleast I am 3rd😂

[@atouristfromdenmark9422]

heat driven radiator sounds like massive resource waste! and extremely dangerous

[@Shadow_of_STLKR]

Stupid construction. In my house is used hot water and it doesn't need such a useless device.

[@maness2112]

Not stupid, steam radiators and hot water radiator have different btu ratings. Maybe you stupid.

[@butt_hero]

Man you REALLY love your HVAC technology huh

[@nikolas8741]

Umm