Behind they Keys w/ James Poyser - Episode 7: Ms. Lauryn Hill

[@greymartin5978]

Man, I love James' energy. None of that bravado, hyper masculine, high strung, B.S. that's so prevelant among most brothas from the North East that grew up in that era.

[@tyana_allday]

"You don't grow unless there's some dirt thrown on you". That is a word right there!

[@TheVizionary]

Every time I watch or Listen to James I am inspired to create... Every single time.

[@jmar3160]

U know how crazy it is that he called Retrospective for Life "Pretty Cool" just one of the greatest songs ever by common lol. This brother is the Goat.

[@Smooveg25]

I just discovered this series and it’s absolutely amazing. James is definitely THEE MAN!!! Please keep this series going!!!

[@erasmusherzen]

Another great story. Aretha is an immortal legend.

[@1feloniouspunk]

Wow, James! I loved you before I knew you! Blessed work!

[@ClumpLord]

Would love to hear your story on how Nothing Even Matters was constructed. Such an incredible orchestrated song with obviously amazing instrumentation. Plus the writing and singing. A duet from the heavens! 6:56

[@jdlady5822]

Puzzle almost complete. Robert Glasper did say Lauren didn't credit musicians on MissEducation. Now we know who.

[@loveone4292]

The music industry sometimes.....

[@bolder2009]

Robert Glasper tried to belittle Lauryn Hill. He is a stellar musician but he does not have what Lauryn has as far artistry is concerned. If he felt he was not credited then he should have stuck to that instead of talking about her deficiencies as a guitar player or what he has heard others say about her. As for musicians not getting credit, Its very common in the industry and its important to make it clear from the start, what you expect from a collaboration, and be assertive. Michael Jackson didn't give John Barnes and Brad Buxer credit for their contribution on some iconic songs that fans all know. They haven't spoken negatively about MJ, perhaps because it was agreed or they didn't want official recognition and were happy just to work with him. Who knows? Same with Prince. Wendy & Lisa are not credited on some of their contributions to compositions. Andre Cymone also wasn't credited on some tracks published as sole Prince compositions. Marvin Gaye (my alltime favourite artist) didn't give certain musicians credit on his 'Here, My Dear' album and spoke about that situation in an interview with David Ritz for his intended autobiography that never was. David Ritz also took him to court for his alledged lyrical contribution to Sexual Healing. He won the case. Though I'm not convinced that he wrote some of the song's lyrics but that's another story.

[@WheresMyFlyingCar]

@@bolder2009 See also: Greg Phillinganes on MJ's "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough"

[@bolder2009]

@@WheresMyFlyingCar Quincy got a lot of heat for saying that MJ should have given credit for some songs that others contributed to. Greg, Brad and John have nothing negative to say about MJ and I respect them for that. They know he was a once in a lifetime talent and did a lot for their careers. But a lot of people don't know the names of the musicians who really contributed to the composition of many iconic songs and those royalty cheques would be much welcomed.

[@gabrielbrewster107]

she credited them as musicians Not as songwriters or producers. which is where the money is. Going down as a keyboardist or drum programmer does not equal the money as a co producer.

[@emmp6799]

Thanks to the roots to provide this platform and even more thanks to you for saying some wise words and telling such interesting and entertaining stories about the reality out there. Even more impressive when I realise that you do not get mad but still stay sane, calm and fair and respect her being an artist after all this. Purely admirable.

[@lightintheart]

Yes brother! Thank you so much for sharing your story. I've loved this song since I was ten years old. To have the privilege and pleasure to discover you and the background story of this song brings gratitude. Great job James Poyser! "Doo Wop (That Thing)" is such a dope song.

[@shelljones7139]

🌻 The 🎹🎹 in Doo Wop was Everything 🔥🔥. Love hearing these stories! Thank you again Mr Poyser

[@UEMusic09]

Thank you for your wisdom and transparency.

[@axjam73]

Thank you for your candor in telling this story. I read and still read labels and your name is on a great amount of music that I love and shaped my life. I look forward to more Behind the Keys episodes and of course, more music. Keep it funky and soulful. Peace!

[@superflyTv94]

Thanks for this James. Seriously.

[@Alex58480]

THAnks So Much James!

[@ndujamz]

James Poyser did great stuff.. believe that...As a J Dilla fan James Poyser is very important to us.

[@geraldinecode8668]

Great story on how some of her best pieces evolved with your expertise!

[@jlawrence7948]

This interview fire. Yeah man, great music - great story telling.

[@legacysearches4481]

I heard this story for a long long time...… never heard it straight from James until now!

[@reneeanderson4807]

Wow...you learn something new everyday...thanks for sharing!

[@Sheetacoop]

Another great story! You’ve definitely been blessed with a great career, grateful for the magic you’ve made.

[@SoulsInRhythm]

Great words. Thanks for this. Excellent lessons here... the least of which is know your worth... know when not to fight but simply know your worth and take that and stand tall and keep moving. With that.

[@rhysdbeast5]

Classic man .. thanks for sharing .

[@insomnia9999]

Very cool man. Beautiful spirit.

[@tun3tym3]

This is as important if not more than a dj spinning records. Not trying to disrespect but 3 comments. Really!? Is this where we at with music today? This should’ve been called , The Education of Mr James Poyser. It was brilliant. Good to see that God brought you out of that and has blessed you! And Ms Hill was amazing. When I was doing production work. It was the “only” show that came through that I wanted to see. It took an hour and change to pry her out of her dressing room. And once she hit the stage, let’s just say it was not what I expected. But I digress, you are a great talent. Keep producing and creating your art. Old Friends 4 Sale ~ Prince. Just one last thing. Fix the camera or the guy shading quit playing.

[@djcoolcliff]

That’s true James!!!!!! You are a beast brother!!!!!!

[@patienceISavirtue75]

Thank you!!!!!

[@Onlythetruth247]

Fascinating!

[@phillyfunk2000]

Love this segment James. Haven't seen you in person since Larry Golds studio :-) Keep it coning!

[@reimourrpower9357]

James Poyser is an exceptional musician, songwriter, producer and person (had the pleasure of meeting him at an Omar show in the early 2000's). Lauryn Hill is an excellent singer, emcee and producer when she shares responsibilties and credit with others (net her in 1995 with the Fugees, very nice back then). Ms. Hill just wanted her respect as producer/songwriter a bit prematurely. She wanted to be like Patrice Rushen, Stevie Wonder, Prince, etc. but you can't jump to that level. It takes years of training and stealing credit is not the proper path to that level of respect.

[@gabrielbrewster107]

She did not 'steal' credit. They were employed as a 'work for hire'. What lauryn hill does is common industry practice. The problem was, there were no contracts and this created an imbalance of power between the employer (Lauryn) and employee (musicians) after the album blow up. Alicia Keys, Beyonce, Prince.... MJ ect all hire musicians and take the credit for they work because the musicians work UNDER their direction and supervision.

[@gabrielbrewster107]

@Anne Day We are talking about the Music Industry. The law suit named Lauryn, her manager and Sony Music. So why aren't you blaming her manager and Sony Music for 'stealing' the credit also???? New Ark and James Poynser played on tracks she produced before the Miseducation also. But NEW ARK only sued AFTER a record blew up. Another musician also sued for the bassline melody of 'A Rose Is Still a Rose' Lauryn Hill wrote for Aretha Franklin She hired them as musicians not producers. The problem was, Lauryn refused to issue employement contracts to the band like her manager told her to. Musicians (normally) only, get co-production credit when they work on music by themselves and then bring it to the other producer near completion. However, all The music was recorded under lauryn's direction using her studio and connections. BTW if you don't know both Vada Nobles and Kilo Pugh have save they did not want to sue and after the setlement, they regreted suing her. Also, After the settlement, They both went to her house in NJ in 2001 and tried to make peace with her. That was last time they every heard or saw her. Vada Nobles said that himself in a Rolllingstone article. They wanted to make more music with her afterward.

[@gabrielbrewster107]

@Anne Day No, they credit 90% of them as musicians just like Lauryn Hill. If they didn't each song would have 20 something people credited as a coproducer. The drum programming, instruments, the vocals, the engineering are all part of the production. and some people also think the arrangement (i.e. instrumental composition) is also part of the production. whereas some people think the arrangement should considered part of the 'song' not the production. and the arrangement itself and the performance of the arrangment should be credited seperately. For example, James played the piano riff in Doo Wop (That Thing) and he is saying he came up with it. However, it is really a sample from "Together Let's Find Love" he is replaying. Clearely stated in the albums liner notes. Nevertheless, Because James is playing it, he thinks he should he credited as a co-producer of Doo Wop (That Thing). Just like the piano in 'Fallin' by Alicia Keys is a sample from of 'A Man's World' by James Brown but he is NOT credited as a co writer or co producer on 'Fallin'. It says writen and produced by Alicia keys period. Also, There is a drum programmer and violinest etc also playing on the record. Alicia has the musicians sign an employement contract BEFORE hand. Beyonce gets a lawsuit almost every month. (litterally)

[@gabrielbrewster107]

@Anne Day What I understand is Kilo Pugh and Vada Nobles 'quit' the project six months before the album was released cause they were told they would not get certain credit. And that was why Che Pope and James was brought back in. And Che claims he had to 'redo' everything Vada did to make it stronger. That's why every song credits two people for doing the drum programming. That's how Che has more production credit than New Ark on the album. And Che also thinks the drum programmer equals producer. cause he claims he did the drums and brought it for her, therefore he was the producer and she was the co-producer for zion. Vada says the exact opposite that he did the drums for her. The musicians themselves can't even agree on who did what.

[@janecialikikinuma1337]

@@gabrielbrewster107 ur amazing! I been preaching about this for yrs!!! Most musicians that are wrk for hire dnt really understand the business Furthermore they are not artists they lack often times musical direction and proper administration. Lauryn hill has to bring it all together as an artists and guide the project and use connections for studio time and getting instruments.

[@blvkbeatstv5894]

We're not worthy of such great content

[@johneta7665]

BLVK Beats TV speak for yourself

[@davidblake8590]

Luv that ending, boss

[@qoolquest]

lol Perfect Ending

[@thejamaican67]

Yes but Still a bit unnecessary when you have so much and know the struggles of being a musician these points and credits can make a huge difference in your quality of life

[@mrroberttrujillo]

Well played

[@GOGOTIX]

Legendary. Sorry that happened man. That lick is the record. Handled like a true pro.

[@nobumassiah]

it's better this way. to have friends that will care enough about you to joke with you like that is worth everything you might have lost.

[@GabrielGaiardo]

Master!

[@LOKRE]

Ima work with this man one day.

[@stormpanther2171]

Thanks Eric Benet for directing us to this page. 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗

[@Luv_Lee_Lady]

You have such a sweet smile

[@LockDogg38]

That 1 thumb down from L Boogie 😂

[@breallyfast6008]

Fabrice Gattolin I was thinking the same thing

[@memyselfandi6788]

It's been confirmed: Zion did it...lol

[@ORGANICsoulJAZZ]

.... this is the sanitized version of RG

[@gnzl.wav1]

💟

[@illaquation791]

I'm going to say the one dislike on this video is L-Boogie lmaoooo

[@coreyabrams4010]

so did you write any of her lyrics

[@BB-lx7wm]

I adore that song Nothing But You but to know you came up with the tune? 😲😔 We now know James. What a talent. 💜

[@thairice2]

Damn..

[@c.johnson79]

👌🏼☺️👍🏼😎👏🏻😍❤️

[@bolder2009]

Jerry Wrexler also took a lot of production credit that should have gone to Aretha. At best he was coproducer. He admitted it too.

[@reimourrpower9357]

Aretha had said in the press that she often did not recieve enough credit as a co-writer & co-producer of songs she performed herself especially because of the (white) male-dominance of her label and businesspeople around her. She later asserted more control of everything in her career from songwrting to performance space as Poyser stated.

[@ompiba]

@@reimourrpower9357 so you think this is what Lauryn did?

[@reimourrpower9357]

@@ompiba I believe so and it's understandable in some part. With Wyclef and Pras leading the image, music & business aspects, Lauryn was this massive personality and asset was positioned as simply the attractive talent. She wanted the respect they recieved and same as her heroes / inspirations Aretha Franklin, Patrice Rushen, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Prince, etc. who often were credited as "written, produced and arranged by..." on their albums. Problem was Lauryn was not at their level yet. She had not proven or developed full writing and production abilities that had other artists & labels calling her for work. She may have even deserved more credit for contributions on The Score and Blunted on Reality by The Fugees but had not shown it yet. I hypothsize she thought "forget 'clef & Pras. I'm the best emcee & singer in the group, a good songwriter and I can produce. I'll grab my homies (New Ark, Che & co.) and do my own album without their input and prove to the world I deserve respect and sisters can do it like Patrice Rushen and Aretha". If she had shared proper credit with James Poyser, New Ark, Che, D'Angelo etc. with her executive producing, she could have avoided all this controversy in my opinion. She still got a classic album out of it; it's unfortunate that her apparent bitterness with the industry and past relationships has made her a sort of legendary pariah in the live performance space now. Lauryn Hill is still an undeniably great artist and has the opportunity to show everyone how awesome he is if she makes the right actions and gets help. Nobody does this alone, not even Aretha or Prince.

[@ompiba]

@@reimourrpower9357 Thanks for your insight. It actually echoes to a lot of interviews she did back then. I remember she was upset that journalists kept asking serious questions to Pras and Clef like :"what are your thoughts on American society?" or "what's your take on the state of hip hop?" and they would ask her about the color of her lipstick. It must have been frustrating for her because everybody and their mama knew she was the most gifted of the group. Plus I remember reading that she was angry because, when Clef released The Carnival (which she worked on), he was crowned as the true genius of the Fugees and je didn't dispute this title while she refused many solo deals before the Score. Anyway it's sad because as you said she should have waited before pulling a Aretha or a Patrice Rushen (although i think she plays all the instruments like Prince, doesn't she?) card. I wonder if she later apologized to Poyser or the others. I mean avoiding calls about contract issues after an album was recorded is quite shady. I also remember a d'Angelo itw where he said that she was supposed to record a song on Voodoo but she never showed up at Electric Lady for the sessions. It's sad what ego can lead you to do...

[@reimourrpower9357]

@@ompiba It is sad what ego & ovr ambition can do to a person and unit. It appeared clear Wyclef wanted & took the leadership of The Fugees so from the outside it makes it seem as if he's the creative genius. He should not have been so cavalier when this happened because it effected the star talent like Lauryn who brought emceeing, pro vocals and the essential female element to the unit which made them stand alone. I had also read allegedly 'Clef stated prematurely he was producing Lauryn's debut by himself which could not have gone down well. And keeping it real, Clef was a decent but not supreme or hitmaking talent producing music without his extraordinarily skilled cousin Jerry Wonder who by all accounts is the hands-on producer of most of 'Clef's work. Reportedly when Jerry was not recieving proper credit and was about to leave, 'Clef got smart gave Jerry full credit and partnership on the songs they'd do together. This was a proper business move by 'Clef that Lauryn should have done with New Ark, Che' & James Poyser. *Note: I never heard or read a credit for instrumentation by Lauryn Hill outside of some guitar chords mainly on her solo live album. Being totally honest, she seemed to want to prove she could play before she was ready for wider audiences that The Fugees and her solo demanded. Cool basic chords but no Joan Armatrading or India Airie. But to be fair, Wyclef was not that much better, no Bob Marley or Ritchie Havens himself. Lauryn is a unique talent and that's unquestionable. She has a great eye for talent also with her work with James Poyser, Robert Glasper, New Ark, Che, D'Angelo etc. If she would simply take a similar path of Erykah Badu where you place these masters in their position and let them do their thing and you lead it with everybody getting proper credit, she could have a paralleled long faithful career same as Badu. Lauryn still has a chance and hope she serves herself, her band and her audience well by doing what's right for everyone.

[@TheQueenCalifia]

Can you name some of the records that helped you on this project?

[@loveone4292]

"Doo Wop" is a gigantic song

[@jdlady5822]

JP and Roy Hargrove pretty please with strawberries and peach cobbler cream on top but not that store bought cobbler dont nobody want that

[@ShonTolliverMusic]

Robert Glasper was right and JP is the OG's OG.

[@gabrielbrewster107]

robert glasper was not right, he said Lauryn hill "stole" the music. Even this musician who is disappointed he didn't get credited as a producer said Lauryn Hill had the vision and he assisted her. He just said she has great musical ideas but she does not play instruments on a professional level. She ( and the record label) credited him as a keyboardist, he (and new ark) wanted to be credited as a co-producers, which is where the money is. the money is in production and publishing not being a keyboardist or drum programmer.

[@sunsp.t]

@@gabrielbrewster107 What James is describing doing is production and songwriting, which he absolutely should have gotten money for since he wrote the beat that the song was written around. He said "co-writing", which means "deserves writing credit, probably helped with melody creation". He was credited as keyboardist, but the work he did was definitely worth a percentage of publishing. She "stole" it in that she basically stiffed all her producers and co-writers at the end of the creation process for one of the most successful albums of all time. The end effect is James never got paid for the song even though he co-wrote it and it became one of the most successful singles of Lauryn Hill's career!

[@nenej12]

@@sunsp.twell what he just played IS THE WHOLE MELODY/STRUCTURE OF DOO WOP lol he should have gotten a full credit for production & co credit for music in terms of writing cause I’m sure after he played that for her lyrics started to pour out. Lauryn was very young at that time, in years to come she could have been that arranged & produced singer she wanted to be…but she got way to greedy & tooo demanding too fast! Also producers look out for each other…she ruined her trust by doing what she did.

[@parnell24]

Damnnnn She went Full Fela.

[@DMS8410]

Soulquarians

[@TheWaronSJWs]

Dope story...but I would have kept that lawsuit going.

[@reimourrpower9357]

For real. Ask for a settlement and credit on future sales of the album & single. Or at least a larger one time settlement out-of-court to close the case. But man, "That Thing" went to the top of the charts internationally and is used in TV, films, ads, etc. Glad Poyser is good with the songs he has credit from Erykah, The Roots, Common, etc.

[@gabrielbrewster107]

Suing has a negative impact on your future. The suit is not against 'Lauryn Hill' alone. It's against the record label. It is not worth it. Better to move on and sign a better contract later. Lauryn hill her self had to do this early on and fight for her credit. When you get a big name, you get credit.

[@dmgsoultogetherness6667]

i dont know what happened to ms hill...but even recently her actions,lateness,rudeness etc has soured things personally

[@bolder2009]

Lauryn is one of the greatest artists of our time and that's not based on The Miseducation. She has written greater material than what's on that album.

[@reimourrpower9357]

Like what? Name songs she wrote and /or produced alone or where she equally shared credit (beyond "A Rose" from Aretha and "All that I can Say" from Mary J. Blige).

[@gabrielbrewster107]

@@reimourrpower9357 she is credited as writer/producer on Do You Like the way by Santana On That Day by Cece Winans She actually has alot of music outside of the miseducation She wrote the raps on "turn you lights down low" with Bob Marley and "Here but I'm Gone" with Curtis Mayfield. BTW NO Producer works alone in the music industry. you think Kanye West produces by 'himself'? you think Quincy Jones produced Thriller by himslef? A producer is the CEO of a production team. Dr. Dre Timberland Irv Gotti even Prince etc ALL have staff assisting them in their production. The lyrics on Lauryn's Unplugged album are actually better than the Miseducation.

[@coreyabrams4010]

​@@gabrielbrewster107 way better her pen is different

[@nenej12]

I'm a big lauryn fan...this was sad to hear...i wonder what made lauryn become so callous

[@FernandoHernandez-hz4fy]

It’s real sad I love Lauryn deeply, but like she says it’s the TRUTH lol

[@nguzoloveinlofi3832]

This excludes Lauryn from the greats list in my book. The true greats have no problem collaborating and giving credit- if Duke Ellington, Herbie Hancock and Aretha Franklin (to name a few) can collaborate, take direction and credit their partners- so should Lauryn Hill.

[@darrylmiller9643]

So I'm assuming Prince is excluded also based on your theory?

[@nguzoloveinlofi3832]

@@darrylmiller9643 Yep.

[@danizm78]

lol if you think lauryn was bad then she has nothing on aretha and i love the queen of soul but she was a nasty person. Lauryn hill is def one of the greats who happened to make mistakes in her 20s which most young people do!

[@nguzoloveinlofi3832]

@@danizm78 Nasty is another issue, all of Lauryn's musical work is collaborative- instead of giving proper credit to her collaborators she would rather not make anymore new music- cutting off the nose to spite the face. Aretha is an phenomenal piano player and singer who put out records just about every decade since the 60's. For all his faults Prince proved that he could go in a studio with only an engineer and produce tons of music. Lauryn Hill needs others to collaborate with and instead of being honest with herself- she'd rather be delusional. Greatness is as greatness does.

[@danizm78]

​@@nguzoloveinlofi3832 i really couldnt care what self righteous bs you spit from your bedroom studio mr lofi, imo regardless of her misgivings she is one of the dopest mc's and vocalists to ever do it, not like you have never done anyone wrong in your lifetime hey mr perfect? lol

[@kennygsmooth83]

JP has a great attitude and you can see how nuturing relationships and treating others with respect has paved his way to much success. I would never work with Lauren Hill if the opportunity presented itself. As we have all witnessed, she sabotaged her career early on by leaving people with the short end of the stick. You can't be truly blessed when you treat others wrongly.

[@janecialikikinuma1337]

Ur not important

[@kennygsmooth83]

@@janecialikikinuma1337 And you are?? I can also spell properly 😘

[@thejamaican67]

Whilst he is sanguine about it is terrible and unnecessary. How much is enough?