These Jobs Are ALREADY Getting Reworked in FFXIV Dawntrail

[@redgeoblaze3752]

It's funny, there's a few people saying Viper is too hard amidst a massive sea of people saying it's really fun how it is, so they change it in a week. Healers have been complaining about all four healing jobs being way too simple in their DPS rotation, and they're just told "go play ultimate" and ignored for five years.

[@bryangriffin6783]

​@ErraticFaith So hostile in a YT comment section. Shouldn't you be busy putting "Made in Taiwan" stickers on cheap plastic goods instead of attacking people because they may be Western and may have money?

[@redgeoblaze3752]

@@ErraticFaith this dude took a family tree test, saw that he was 1/64th Japanese, and ran with it.

[@xAtsuuko]

is this a legit complaint about healers or are you trolling lmao

[@jasonm7298]

@@ErraticFaith When Aliens invade earth don't come crying when our divine military doesn't rescue you.

[@SableBez]

When haeler dps was complex nobody played healer, the roulette for dps took 30 min. When they made it simpler the dps roulette came down for 5 min. Now we are seeing the same thing. If roulette for dps remain at 30 min they will change healers again

[@25xxfrostxx]

The RDM change is a good one. As it sits now at 100 if you don't burn all 6 stacks of manafication within 15 seconds you lose your Prefulgence completely and just don't get to do your level 100 ability at all on that 2 minute cycle.

[@bluebebop2337]

Kinda weird that a painting class is a DPS. You would think they would add more support mechanics similar to what dancer does

[@merakkori2089]

As a Viper enjoyer, I think it is super fun and fast. The added positionals are nothing bad I feel. Noxious Gnash timer increase would be kinda neat.

[@woahquill1334]

This! I find it so awkward to put my reawaken combo under the noxious gas debuff in my opener

[@midorixiv]

viper almost reminds me of how monk used to feel before EW, really hope they don't fuck it up because casuals hate positionals

[@slimfastsubaru2043]

fr dreadwinder is just the GCD version of reapers gluttony, gluttony allows you to use gibbet and gallows, 2 positional gcds that allow you to use an ogcd afterwards. vpr does the same thing but its 2 ogcds after but the ogcd is on a 3 second recast so the double weave is easy.

[@DeadSpaceWing]

Tbh, I don't even pay attention to positionals. Survival is the priority, greed can and will lead to dps loss

[@jamesharbor4893]

playing around gnash and not over capping is part of the fun for me

[@missfisg]

you’re not supposed to reapply noxious gnash in the middle of your burst, you take some time leading up to your burst double refreshing and then you can double reawaken and get most of it under buffs

[@toxictripp]

I have not seen a viper complaint. Tbe community is in an uproar about the reported changes. Dont. Touch. Viper.

[@red5robb1]

ive heard its mostly Japanese people complaining about it, this just makes me think that SE mostly listens to their own players (which is a minority of the players BTW) over the whole playerbase

[@25xxfrostxx]

Everyone that "complained" did so by stopping at 81 and picking up picto.

[@slimfastsubaru2043]

is the trash jp players who want ff xiv to be a baby game. imagine bitching about weaves and busyness when the average ping in jp is like 15.

[@IaconDawnshire]

@@25xxfrostxxI picked up picto cuz I'm an (garbage) artist IRL xD

[@SirChucklenutsTM]

@@slimfastsubaru2043 It's funny because they said they dumbed Mega Man down because Americans said it was too hard. Irony

[@SiaDione]

i played viper this expansion and for the first extreme and like... what tf?? like actually thats the appeal? I get that people wants to play the new classes when they come out, but when said job doesnt play like u want, u go play another, there's plenty to choose from...

[@chelsthegameruiner8669]

Even then, practicing with the class leads to improvement. Once I got the positionals down for Viper, I started to notice I was getting a lot of commendations (probably because many ignore the positionals from what I've heard). I still feel like I can improve in some places since the combos do confuse me a bit, but I'm slowly getting the hang of it. I like the complexity honestly

[@Martician]

@@chelsthegameruiner8669 no one is going to check if *you* are doing your positionals correct in a dungeon for commendations

[@shinkicker404]

More likely you got grouped with people that were grouped and you got comms by default.

[@MayHugger]

@@chelsthegameruiner8669No one is checking whether someone else is doing their positionals. 9/10 People don’t pay attention to what other people are doing unless what other people do directly affects them or they’re doing savage/ultimate content.

[@jackskinner1513]

If they slow down viper I'll be so incredibly disheartened. The speed of its rotation makes it so fun.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

It's still too early to say, but I expect that they'll be removing the positional requirements from the dreadwinder skills. Removing the need to move from flank to rear to flank as it is would make the job less busy as they want while also reducing the positionals as they say they want to do. And this would also be in line with the dragoon changes to wheeling thrust/fang and claw.

[@magpie_jazz]

Boo to these supposed vpr complaints. Please don't overreact, SE >.>

[@RinBanana]

vpr fun, I feel like they should give it a few weeks to breathe before considering changes

[@omensoffate]

The dreadwinder positionals are a little wonky. Def easily doable but it’s the most wonky part of the rotation

[@25xxfrostxx]

There is no way they don't have a massive amount of data on hand to see how many people are just ignoring positionals because they're a pain point. I know they're new devs that just got into the business last week but I would imagine they aren't doing anything without reason. Melee players were glad to see every 6th attack on dragoon no longer be a positional but suddenly their shiny new toy with 8 positional attacks is "fine".

[@magpie_jazz]

@@25xxfrostxx vpr has six positionals. I've been a melee player since ARR, and I consider positionals a vanishingly small complaint. With vpr, I just tend to reserve True North for Dreadwinder combo.

[@slimfastsubaru2043]

@@omensoffate how is it wonky? its literally reapers gluttony, which got zero hate. what does gluttony do? it allows you to use both gibbet and gallows, a rear and a flank positional followed by an ogcd......its the exact same thing, yes vpr is 2 ogcds after each but its also a 3 second recast timer.

[@SakuXIV]

The Samurai change is enabling the job to be more flexible again in a lot of situations, as cool as having a full on perfect loop rotation might look like on the outside, it actually limits the gameplay of the job immensely. Having the 1-3 filler gcds helps being flexible and gives options to the job, rather than having it limited. Looping itself might be great overall for full uptime fights and beginners, it is bad for fights with any kind of downtime or optimization, and having a a filler in your rotation I don't think is a hindrance to the enjoyment if you decide to do them.

[@Puffinbar]

My gripe with it is that it just feels weird. I understand there’s some cool tech like sneaking a Meikyo after your GCD, but my Higanbana has been playing Eurobeat and drifting like none other as I’m trying to acclimate to the changes.

[@Qi_xiv]

samurai is still bricked as long tsubame is locked behind meikyo. that's the real fix they need to make

[@TheLordMagmar]

So long as Tendo is attached to Meikyo you're never going to use Tsubame on anything except the first iajutsu after meikyo shisui anyway. Tsubame on anything but tendo midare is a damage loss and tendo midare is activated by meikyo shisui.

[@Reaper8290]

Honestly, I would be happy if Meikyo just went away. It just makes everything feel awkward.

[@NomoregoodnamesD8]

Tendo forced you to drift DoT application

[@drewgregory4079]

Picto is absolutely nutty in terms of its damage and removing the skip thunder rota isn't going to fix that. I really hope square is finally willing a job that is clearly over performing rather than feeling like they can only ever buff. If the other casters get pushed up to picto dps there's a very real risk of the 1% stats from bring a Machinist, Bard, or dancer just not worth it compared to brining two competent casters

[@princessprincess0039]

Pictos damage goes down a bit during a longer sustained fight since their burst is in intervals. I doubt they are gonna nerf the damage. No one will take it ever if they do.

[@jamesharbor4893]

​​​@@princessprincess0039even throughout the average EX picto is king. it's damage potential is higher than blm while providing a raid buff. fflogs have pictos all over the top 100 and eat up 9/10 of the top 10 of rdps while having the highest ndps and adps out of all casters.

[@narvack]

@@jamesharbor4893I mean it should have higher dps then smn and rdmg not blm all they need to do is buff blm

[@LookItIsHope]

@@jamesharbor4893Two raid buffs* They also have the party shield. Not a damaging buff, but useful mitigation nonetheless for the group. Tho I'll admit it is kinda awkward to use in its current state, not much of a fan of its current execution.

[@CTN404]

I don’t really use websites like ff logs. But is the picto dmg really that good? Because I been having an absolute blast with it without caring how it did versus the other dmg dealers

[@deatherage9458]

The astro changes sound really good, astro was my go to healer for EW savage so I am really excited hearing about these changes, I really hope the changes are that lightspeed has 2 charges with a 60 second CD. Astro getting more tools for weaving or a viable option to cast while moving would be fantastic.

[@herebejamz]

Viper changes: Literally just some range increases from 3 yalms to 5 yalms. Have fun out there.

[@TheTarek1993]

viper does not need a single change. its by far the easiest melee in the game. the positionals are the ONLY thing making it "hard". give people 2-3 months of having the job before making any adjustment.

[@aromenoir9552]

I agree they should not change viper, but it's not the easiest, got rpr/drg and viper at 100, viper is the most complex when it comes to min max it's damage

[@UndeadSoulOfPopeBenedict]

@@aromenoir9552 I haven't had a chance to play VPR yet, but I play NIN quite a bit and I remember a fair bit of sentiment from people hoping it'd be Ninja but easier/not so weeb at least among my own circle, reddit, etc. NIN played well isn't even close to the top of the chart for damage, but it is a lot of fun because it is very busy, and you need to manage your resources closely to get the most out of your burst windows. But there's no real reward for playing well at it other than mid damage like you get from being good at other busy and involved classes like BLM (well I guess prior to DT anyway and the intro of PCT) Unlike NIN, VPR has the benefit of significantly reduced button bloat on the ol hotbar, reducing the class to mostly hit positionals and be ready to double weave sometimes. It also seems to hit like a truck. Again, I haven't played VPR, but it sounds like your rotation on VPR needs only minimal attention to resource management to keep things flowing and you just hit your buttons fast to keep the damage flowing as they light up and ya know, move where you're supposed to move to be effective. From my POV, if this is all true, it sounds to me like the community got what they had hoped for -- an easier NIN. But I suppose JP could have been in a totally different frame of mind about it before Dawntrail's release than the western fans were.

[@herebejamz]

I would make a single change. To all the classes. Tootips are a mess and language isn't standardized between all of them, but that's been an ongoing issue. Reading Viper tooltips did almost nothing for me learning Viper.

[@Reaper8290]

Viper is not hard. Though in general I am not a fan of positional given the new fight designs. The fights themselves force so much movement that is mostly luck if you can be in the right place at the right time. Gash though I dislike. Just like I dislike death's design on reaper. Make those DOTs or remove them and buff potencies to compensate.

[@VentusLionheart]

@@aromenoir9552 Viper definitely easier than DRG. It’s little busy, but Viper doesn’t need to double weave as much as DRG and their rotation is much more flexible, not to mention that they have no animation lock on their oGCD like DRG. Viper allows for more fuck ups over DRG.

[@one_eyeddd473]

This community is fried

[@slimfastsubaru2043]

correction the JP community is fried

[@DeadSpaceWing]

Nah, scorched earth. The ENTIRE community is fried eggs.

[@philbuttler3427]

Bro this community is by far the nicest MMO community I've met. What are you talking about?

[@captainziggy82]

Yea, genuinely curious as to where the feedback is coming from?

[@marcusaurelius4777]

@@philbuttler3427 No they aren't nice, they are toxically positive and a cult. Any bad thing said is met with pitchforks. I had committed the crime of saying that the story was kind of mid and Wuk Lamat sucked as a character and get tarred and feathered lol.

[@craigpridemore7566]

Black Mage. I don't even PLAY it anymore and knew this was a mistake. Yoshi P is a Mage, so how'd he let this slip by?

[@slimfastsubaru2043]

i mean he does,t know how to play the job lol. have you seen his rotation? its shit. guys clueless when it comes to blm

[@zensei7685]

Bros probably lit in a jacuzzi somewhere with a bunch of baddies or something

[@zillahstar]

I have a running theory that he actually mains Rpr

[@Kfo221]

Black mage is fun though

[@zensei7685]

@@zillahstar that’s funny cuz I just switched from a black mage main to a reaper main this expansion lol

[@rubensgbarros]

The fact they're changing umbral soul now just shows to me they aren't thinking through some of their choices and not listening to part of the community feedback, like they so people complaining about them killing non standard and grouped the concerns about low level mana regen together with it, just ignoring everything.

[@susulilith]

they're listening to nothing but casuals and money

[@UmbraWeiss]

They always did this, the very reason why you can literally set every job skills in the same layout and will work, because all of them is almost the same with different names and some small changes. They already talked about how they made the game too easy... But how I see it, the real problem is the dev team who learned the job , got to lazy to even try new things, and just push out the same shit over and over again with 1-2 new things in between, and this loop made the game how it is now... They don't even try to inovate. And even the new thing are mostly a mont that is not a copy paste random garbage from the game.

[@patrikbatemanx]

BLM is insanely souless and boring now, it hurts. and for what??? even less players will play it, fking mindblowing

[@breakthecode4634]

Its crazy that people complain the game is too easy, then complain that viper is too busy.

[@dominic640]

i noticed on viper that the possitionals flow pretty wel from one combo it goes rear than flank and the charged combo goes flank and rear so you can just let them flow into eachother and you don't actually have to move that much

[@uwu2u]

The people complaining about how busy viper is are probably the same people who complained about endwalker dragoon except viper doesn't have animation locks on its weaves. I have 2 words as a then drg and now vpr main: skill issue

[@7RicolmE7]

People complain about about viper should play something else

[@jslaughter95]

Viper isn’t even difficult to play.. as far as rotation goes it’s honestly incredibly basic, but damn is it fun and feels great

[@Zavitor]

Remember the community. We're supposed to be as accommodating to Sprouts as possible. So if all you have to say is 'Skill Issue', you're gonna be labeled an elitist, who gets angry when someone stalls the dungeon run to view a cutscene.

[@the-CCLemon]

Did EX1 as Viper so far, its true class feels very simple at its core but the buff/debuff timers on your rotation add a bit of complexity imo, its easy to slip up and let the buff drop which i feel makes a simple class feel way more challenging. The changes will likely make the class a lot easier if going through your rotation just automatically keeps 100% uptime on your buffs/debuffs I dont really care for positionals personally so its whatever but Its a bit of a shame with the buffs because i really enjoy simple classes with an element of thought/buff management and its why i stuck with viper to 100 through msq

[@beckylcunningham]

As a ninja main I find the buff/debuff management on viper amusing. They just removed ninja's buff management component and I *love* that because it was a fundamentally uninteresting mechanic. Now I can pay more attention to my positionals and my GCDs without having to watch that dang Huton meter all the time. So what did they do after relieving ninja from its buff management chore? Give it to viper! OK. Y'all can have it. 😛

[@chickennugget6684]

Same thing with Monk lol

[@LittleN645]

monk is so goofy to play now, glad some changes are being made

[@JamesTheTurnbull]

Yeah monk is pretty cursed right now.

[@Drewbacca7789]

I knew something was up when I saw that DK after every LO was the best route. I thought, “This doesn’t seem like it’s intended” haha

[@BaithNa]

Monk and Bard need a complete rework. They've lost the plot of these two jobs.

[@RyItar]

I hate new monk.All things that were fun for me got taken away and now i stare at balls (no homo) all the time.

[@tyhjyys]

⁠@@BaithNa idk where you've been but monk gets reworked every expansion lmao

[@drbiohazmat]

so, about the VPR complaint source, I've heard the JP forums are full of people complaining that it technically has 6 positionals despite the fact that, in effect, it's more like 4, and even that is being treated as too many positionals.

[@Lorfo11]

So like... Front, Back, Right and Left?

[@BaithNa]

What are the other two?

[@MallowJam]

2 reds and 2 greens as the third hit on your 1 2 3, even though that's effectively 2 positionals, and then there's dreadwinder for another 2

[@slimfastsubaru2043]

@@MallowJam jp too damn stupid to learn 2nd hit in combo determines the 3rd ones positional. 2nd hit on the steel fangs key? 3rd hits a flank, 2nd combo hit on dread fangs? 3rd hits a rear, so the 2nd hit in combo changes to the one you didnt hit last combo every single time. you can literally glance at the job gauge every 3 hits to see which side is glowing to hit positional, since you already know if its rear or flank from the 2nd hit lmao.

[@DeadSpaceWing]

I didn't even do positionals, and I crushed my enemies just fine. Slap on some Critical and Direct hit materia and you basically to the same if not more damage. Survival > Greed

[@TheMexRAGE]

Please, i hope they dont turn viper into a 2 minute meta borefest, i like how intensive it is most of the time. My problem is how useless and hard to read the job gauge is, the only thing needed is having a single indicator of the positional the next basic 3 string combo finisher gonna be, as you can loose track of what was the last positional you got, because you constantly interrupt your basic 3 string combos for your dreadwinder combo, your uncoil and your awakening and there is nothing there that is easy to read to remind what was the last one you did in the middle of the fight.

[@snapboy300]

@PplCallMeGhost1 It's even easier than that. The positional is always determined by the second step of the combo, when the sword(s) on the job gauge glow red. The color of the glow is what throws people off- it ALWAYS goes from no glow -> red glow -> blue glow based on what stage of the combo you're at. What's important is which sword is glowing, because it matches whichever hotkeys are highlighted, assuming you have Steel Fangs on the left, and Dread Fangs on the right. Since they convert to First Generation and Second Generation respectively, I have them on 1 and 2. Thus, if I press 1 (Hunter's Sting) for the second step of my basic combo, I know I am doing a flank positional for the third step. Likewise, if I press 2 (Swiftskin's Sting) for my second step, I know I will be doing a rear positional next. The important thing to remember is that all the vipersight gauge is doing is matching the highlighted hotkey(s) and showing you what step of the combo you're at. Left sword corresponds to Steel Fangs/Hunter's Sting/Flank, right sword corresponds to Dread Fangs/Swiftskin's Sting/Rear. Get used to moving to your upcoming positional based on the second step of the combo and it will very quickly become second nature.

[@krisshietala2119]

The gaugebis easy . You have left combo and eight combo. And that's what the gauge shows. It's easier on chotbar to see if you position your skills properly.

[@TheColdOnez]

The bar is completely useless I just look at the ability icons to tell which one to do.

[@adamantineChelicerae]

personally i'm really miffed by them removing a positional per 5 gcds on drg so if they also remove some on vpr it's really just like okay, i get it, i'm like phys ranged now in that i don't actually have to care about anything regarding positioning :/

[@larther37]

Is it too early to be calling for a summoner rework?

[@EbonySeraphim]

The only reason why I think they should "alleviate" Viper of heavy positionals is because that should be Monk's identity -- or at least it was. I say that as a Monk main who's greedy. If I was to look at the overall game, it would make sense to have one melee DPS have a positional identity, and much faster GCDs but the identity for another. I've been playing since ARR and I still can't drop my "feel" for trying to positional every single GCD on Monk. I still have that muscle memory down pat. Every since they've removed them, I don't know if I can honestly say I've "felt" super connected to playing Monk.

[@chelsthegameruiner8669]

The way Viper works is what makes it appealing in my eyes. I get that positionals are annoying, I hate them too, but Viper literally holds your hand with the combo finishers by having the words "flank" and "hind" in them. Obviously, I'm still learning Viper but its a fun class. More exciting than Ninja in my eyes

[@omensoffate]

You don’t even need the words. Red is rear green is flank

[@MoonMoon-nj2cu]

Midare / Kaeshi Setsugekka has always been 2.5 so why should Tendo be 3.2s. Not to mention you straight up lose GCDs over time cause of the longer GCD as opposed to Midare. Now I don't know if they will adjust the potency of Tendo but if it's the same then it's a QoL buff for me. Trust me when I say that their intention wasn't to remove filler when they made it 3.2s. It was so they can fit the long animation in it. Filler isn't a bad thing as it allows some flexibility if you have to disconnect from the boss and you can always not do filler too. The 3.2s Tendo cast time did not invent the fillerless rotation. You also mention triple weaving part but Samurai doesn't need triple weaving. A lot of times you will just be sitting afking after pressing Tendo Kaeshi Setsugekka.

[@BaithNa]

I didn't understand the need for the RDM change until I realized the timer for manafication was super short. If im in a dungeon with a RDM, I can build up an entire meter to 100 between boss fights, this completely changes the opening rotation in boaa fights and boost its bust damage by at least 30%.

[@adelxiii6327]

Its the buff .. from 15s i guess will be 20s so you can do your level 100 spell after spend all 6 stacks

[@patrikbatemanx]

sucking every soul of all the jobs :) so sick! yeah it feels so bad now

[@lyconxero457]

I don’t understand where this Viper feedback is coming from. Changes that I would be okay with is better range on some of the abilities and making Noxious Gnash 30/60 instead of 20/40 as I have also felt that it falls off really quickly. Aside from that, it’s already my favorite melee to play despite not having a personal defensive ability. I just really hope that they don’t remove all the OGCD weaving as that’s what makes the job fun.

[@patrikbatemanx]

feedback coming from daily roullete only enjoyers and 0 grey parsers, who dont care about getting better/dmg/opti or anything really, they just hit the button... so why even care in the first place about positionals? just dont press it bro, you dont care anyway in the first place, so insane. positonals on vpr keeps it fresh but now they even suck some of the soul out of it 2 weeks after the expansion, insane

[@LiQuiEx]

Seen a number of people saying that VPR's Dreadwinder chain is what's causing these complaints about it being busy. Having to do 4 ogcds and also switch positional within 2 gcds of coils. I've just used True North (2 charges, 45 sec cooldown) on every Dreadwinder (2 charges, 40 second cooldown) combo chain and it covers both gcd positionals

[@muchhorrorsuchwow]

That's what I do for reaper enshroud when I know I dont need to worry about saving true north's for a perfect moment. 🤷‍♀️

[@DeadSpaceWing]

I don't even click True North when I can crit all damn day.

[@TheVenhammer]

@@DeadSpaceWingcrits don’t trigger the extra positional damage if you don’t actually do the positional, that’s still leaving damage on the table

[@asteroidxarmageddon2354]

The only problem I've had with the Dreadwinder combo is the fact that 80% of the time, I'm clipping my GCD after using the off globals...but I'm pretty sure that's because of ping. In terms of positionals for Dreadwinder....just use True North, right?

[@yogurtretzel8865]

@@muchhorrorsuchwow Enshroud doesn't have positionals lol.

[@tkOzeki]

For VPR, Green enders are flank, red enders are rear, idk why people think that is so hard

[@Chillgeroffrost]

colorblind maybe

[@odtray747]

I thought the astro thing "Charged action" for Light speed meant it would become like IR,Overheat, and so on where it has a longer duration but only works on X number of spells. I could be wrong as both could make sense.

[@Vioblight]

Low monk hate staring at the little orbs…..

[@BaithNa]

The only problem with Viper is that the animations of attacks are too fast, they're barely visible and the WoL ends up standing while they wait for the GCD to roll. Slow down some of the animations and it'll look a lot better in combat.

[@soldierorsomething]

Well before they do that, just meld skill speed 😂

[@Myrmidal]

They have to leave something to add flashier animations to next expansion. If everything looks great right off the bat it makes making the new stuff harder :P

[@ceres090]

That makes so much sense! I was wondering why my character was just standing still sometimes.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

The monk changes that happened also pertain to the way the changed the job's core rotation (which makes me think very few if any developers actually play the job when they claimed the job's core playstyle wouldn't change) Previously you'd always follow up dragon kick with twin snakes and use demolish every third rotation. The way the job worked on launch ended up with twin snakes every third rotation and demolish every fourth. This both meant that the job now spends a very long time just camping on a boss's flank as well as a rotation that was 36 GCDs (not even counting wind's reply or fire's reply) just to loop back into itself, and with a 2 second GCD that means 72 seconds. With perfect balance being used every 60 seconds, the job's rotation would never loop back into itself. As a 10 year monk main, I had to drop the job when the expansion came out because I just couldn't get used to this new rotation, and honestly was glad I waited till the job adjustments to level it up.

[@krexolsen3692]

Happy I stayed RPR, it is a blast!

[@CMTechnica]

Definitely happy I made the switch from DRG

[@sadmiqoxiv]

Vioers good fun, i really dont care if they do or dont renove positionals from 2 of the abilities, it wont change gameplay in any meaningful way. The jobs fun, i go fast, faster than i ever went with monk in endwalker. Change it or not, the job will still play the same.

[@apathy251]

you know what else proved a hindernace to my experince, MY SUMMONER DOING NEGTATIVE FKING DMG.

[@tbnwontpop8857]

lol Yeah out of all of the jobs name dropped it's shocking that Yoshida didn't even mention smn complaints. This job is being dunked on probably the most and yet Yoshi P seems too embarrassed to even bring it up. smn seems dead in the water, sadly.

[@alternative_five]

Go play picto. basically thats what Square wants us all caster to do aparently. i main BLM and the job is NOT FUN ANYMORE and picto does everything we do but BETTER and does a trillion more DMG whats the point anymore to play what you like 😭😭

[@boogiebam7104]

​@@alternative_fiveof course the newest shiny job is the best right now. Its to validate your purchase. Imagine if all the new jobs were low tier. Dw this always happens with new jobs. they will slowly balance it out as time goes on

[@alternative_five]

@@boogiebam7104 the difference between Picto and the rest is more abysmal than any new job before. you can just go and compare on fflogs how reaper was at the start of EW. Picto is the TOP DPS even above all melees, and it has a huuuuge marging with with BLM and the other casters. obviously they will balance it by buffing all the other jobs like they did with reaper but right now Picto its so OP that BLM in inviable for at least week 1 prog or speed runs. and thats kinda sad if you really wanted to play it on those settings. also its quite depressing how a blm can be completely dunked on DPS even while doing a quite perfect rotation by a Picto just learning the job lol

[@crazymage5316]

Maybe what they mean by viper is too busy that due to how many postionals it had its very easy to trip up and not maintain damage?

[@Fluttershy08]

There's only 2 positionals tho lol

[@chikoskiii7767]

skill issue

[@crazymage5316]

@@Fluttershy08 there is six which i counted actually that requires a specific position for bonus damage

[@omensoffate]

@@Fluttershy08no there isn’t 😂

[@crazymage5316]

@@omensoffate hi again btw

[@陳威麟-q7o]

I guess viper need 2 weaving in opening and glitch with pots and other thing is a little annoying, and positioning in 2 oGCD is a little bit too much.

[@Envinyon]

People sure are quick to suggest that any feedback they don't agree with clearly must be fake, or made with bad intentions. I can't see them kneejerk gutting all of its positionals and ogcds. Both are core to the job, so the only thing I can see happening is tweaking Dreadwinder somewhat. Personally I'd want them to just increase the recast time so that I can double weave without clipping, and that would make it easier to land your positionals.

[@RinBanana]

I didn't suggest it's fake or made with bad intentions, I suggested that 6 days into an expansion is too early to have any real worthwhile foundation for such changes

[@Envinyon]

@@RinBanana oh, sorry I didn't mean that you were doing that, its just the general vibe I get from social media. I do think they should wait and see how people feel about it in raids and once people have build up muscle memory

[@snapboy300]

Viper does have some issues that I would like to see ironed out, but they're issues that may not affect people depending on their general control scheme. The primary issue I have in regards to positionals is the Dreadwinder combo, and the reason it's a problem is because it's a double weave that requires two distinct keybinds to perform. Gallows and Gibbet don't have this problem because they use a single weave that shares the same hotkey. But Viper's AoE rotation is essentially an entire duplicate set of hotkeys that share Serpent's Tail, Twinfang, and Twinblood with the single target rotation. You need to have a comfortable way to access those hotkeys from both your single target and your AoE rotation's hotkeys. And this is compounded by the fact that Reawaken heavily incentivizes having the four hotkeys that turn into the four generation weaponskills in sequence, which leads to me needing to press four separate hotkeys in a distinct sequence that is comfortable and easy to commit to muscle memory both forwards and backwards- and the middle two need to ALSO be accessible to the hotkeys for my AoE Pit of Dread combo. It's physically uncomfortable at times, but i'm limited in my ability to fix this because a setup that is comfortable for Dreadwinder may be much less so for Pit of Dread, and having Hunter's Coil and Swiftskin's Coil on any hotkeys other than 3 and 4 respectively breaks the flow of Reawaken. I don't have any problems with Viper being a busy job with lots of constant inputs. I enjoy that. But I don't feel like I have the freedom or ability to place my hotkeys in positions that are comfortable for me to use in the way I am expected to. No other job i've played has that issue. The OTHER issue Viper has is that the job quest that serves as a tutorial does a terrible job of explaining it. The Vipersight gauge is unintuitive and makes the rotation seem far more complicated than it actually is. I would also like to point out that the blog post did /not/ say that they were making the job less busy. What it said was that they had received feedback about the busyness of the rotation, and that their intentions were the "easing of directional requirements and changes to the effects of several actions." It was NEVER stated that they were going to do this by making Viper less busy, or changing the core feel of the job. Feedback regarding the busyness of the job doesn't necessarily mean "people complaining about it being too busy"- as you stated, it's supposed to be a fast paced, easy to understand job. But some combo sequences are extremely awkward with certain control schemes, and the job gauge is unintuitive and counterproductive. Changes should be made to help the job flow naturally regardless of control preference and be more intuitive to understand, and those are probably the kinds of changes that they're looking at. Nobody is asking for the job to be changed because it doesn't suit their tastes. We're asking for the job to be changed so that we can appreciate it properly and enjoy it for what it's designed to do. And of course, if i'm wrong and they end up changing the core feel of the job, I wouldn't blame you for having a problem with that. But as of now, there is no reason to assume that that's going to happen.

[@m0nad0_b0y]

i swear to god they better leave viper alone. I was so excited for this job, and am loving it having reached lvl 100 near the end of the MSQ. I'll be so disappointed if they make me not love this job anymore.

[@slavkei]

They forgot the biggest buff they need, one that is absolutely critical and gamebreaking until it's fixed. They need to increase the size of the weapon model in Primal Ruination another 50% at minimum. My dwarven hammer is not yet big enough. My character can still lift it, YOSHIDA PLEASE FIX

[@DeadSpaceWing]

Odd flex, but sure, why not.

[@slavkei]

@@DeadSpaceWing It's not a flex, I just love how they scale your weapon model to like 3x the size of your character, then have you almost get flung off at the end of the attack. And I want it even more ridiculous, because it's so over the top and silly. Just the animation itself, mind you- no other adjustments to timing or potency or anything. Just more silliness.

[@RagnarokiaNG]

I think a reason people might be complaining about Viper being too busy is from over preparing for a boss fight and not using things naturally in the previous packs, I tried that while afking trusts and it felt like I was wasting potential damage while needing to prepare the buffs before launching off the capped cooldowns and stacks

[@craigfunk3453]

As a viper player, i persoanlly enjoy the busyness of the job, the 'issues' toend to be on a fight specific basis purely for how some fights its simply too stressful trying to land every positional (even with true north) with how often some bosses force you to be in front of them or locked to their rear with no access to the flank for extended periods. EX2 is a prime example of the positional issue

[@Infinitenull]

I've barely picked up viper so I'm still learning it but something I personally find is that it has a lot going on. PUSH ALL THE BUTTONS! For some people, that can be overwhelming/complicated. Some people can get used to it, others will shelve it, no matter how much people try to explain or show how it may work.

[@DJThomas59]

It's moments like these I hate the community. There is literally nothing wrong with viper. It plays itself. If you can't understand it, there are other jobs to play. Or maybe you just have bad game sense to keep up.

[@HoosierQuail]

Some hasn’t playing since ARR. this isn’t new. We are the true testers they always have to do reworks after an expansion. I’m mean I enjoy playing mch with my tool attached to back of my neck as I flip around the fight lol

[@ruthnovena40]

No matter ho many times you post and tell these people these things they don't seem to pay attention . They could adjust these jobs and not say any thing would thy even notice.

[@IyasuHN2]

to my understanding, a lot of the positional issues are people with colorblindness struggling with vpr, or at least thats the valid complaint im seeing it. To be fair i agree that maybe the reawaken phase may...should have like 6y range. In ex1 the boss can FORCE you off him with one of his abilities that extends beyond max melee and that feeling sucks (even though you can and should uncoiled during reawaken if that happens)

[@xL0stKIlah]

That's not a valid complaint. Color blind people can play a different job or learn to overcome their disability

[@Koyu_Ruh]

Not having damage on my gap closer still screws with my muscle memory. My damage rotation as GNB is less busy, but also less rewarding. It wasn't much, but it still is so hard to get it out of my muscle memory. The gap closer is so hard coded into me and my rotation, that I sometimes still accidentally use it and just stand there with awkward endlag. . . Menacingly!

[@Nanashi20]

As a DRK, as soon as i have access to the flood of darkness, i never have problems losing enmity when pulling mobs after mobs, as its easy on drk to just line them up as youre running and damage them with that flood of darkness, or just stop a quick sec to hit with aoe. But i have heard people losing enmity over how op picto is with it

[@patrickmurray3846]

hope they add semiauto-combo's to all class's, like how they did with viper and pch. It'll help with hotbar congestion, which is started getting out of hand the past 1-2 expantions. So like have pld's 1 2 3 combo merged into just pressing 1 key 3 times rather then taking up 3 hotbar slots. Let us have our single target on #1 key and aoe on #2 key. Now i know with some class's it won't be as easy to merge attacks/spells, as with some combo's the first attack/spell can chain into 2-3 different attacks/spells.

[@nenni8872]

I’m soo bad at holding the positionals for viper and even my rotation is a mess at least half of the time but… the job is SO fun. Can’t remember when I had this much fun playing as dps and the speed and slight challenge just feels super motivating to practice more :C

[@jowest99]

I see so many people saying "if you dont like X about a class then you dont like the class", but that is a very broad, and dismissive stance. For example. They changed Summoner for the better by removing the "Dot Mage" part of their kit, and made them a actual summoner. People are allowed to have criticism about a job, and Yoship agree's with it. Otherwise he wouldnt change it.

[@RinBanana]

I think whether Summoner has been changed for the better is a fairly large point of contention and is very opinionated, rather than a fact

[@rickydargence5948]

My main DPS is SAM, they got rid of you know what some time ago, now as a DRK they got rid of plunge, I can understand removing extra button "bloat" as they say but they just replaced plung with a lame ass dash, what the hell?

[@axis1247]

They removed plunge because people were using it for DPS and not as a gap closer because DRK much like GNB are the more 'DPS' Tanks

[@whatneutral]

​@@axis1247 they should have given all the tanks a nondamaging gapcloser and kept their damaging one tbh. button bloat is extremely not an issue in this game

[@CMTechnica]

@@axis1247of course people are going to use a skill doing damage for DPS

[@matthiasvancauteren3107]

@@axis1247 Honestly I would have fixed this by just giving plunge a minimal cast range(and maybe make it's damage a small aoe). This way you can still use it as a cool gap closer but you don't have to bother with it on bosses in your standard rotation.

[@Raika63]

The only viper change I want is more range on the ogcd follow ups like the GNB continuations.

[@Tinandel]

So I'll admit that I have barely touched viper, but from what little I saw.... while it's confusing to actually UNDERSTAND, it's incredibly simple to do. Like, the combo highlighters tell you exactly what to press next...

[@georgesmirnov6600]

I really don't know where this feedback is coming from. The expansion has just released, just wait until at least 7.1 patch and then make changes. And Naoki Yoshida was saying how they are looking into reimagination of how jobs work in 8.0 onwards (something to that extent). Yea, right, with addressing feedback as this it is going to be reimagination for the worst - doubling down on simplification. Also, didn't someone proudly declare "we are not afraid to take risks anymore"? Barely a week passed by and they are already afraid to dissatisfy those players, who are just not vibing with the way the viper plays. This is insanely dissapointing.

[@michaelchouinard8852]

Im 100% aggree with you about viper !! i main it actually and its not that bad at all. Some players give bad feedback because they cant use positionnal ? come on xD get a back in time when monk has 5 -6 positionnals xD i hope they will not break Viper… He’s perfect like that

[@toasternoodle2938]

I feel like people are just doom casting over some of these things when we do not know the content to the changes. As for viper i think it honestly needs a little tuning as dreadwinder could just give you 40 seconds of noxious and the positionals are probably getting changed on the dreadwinder either being removed or needing to hit it in a position and the following gcds dont have it. After clearing the EXs and grinding out to 705 ilvl it has a few meh features but not enough to "rework" as the bait title says.

[@umbralflow6883]

When it comes to VPR I think the change was ok and needed. When I play it it can feel fustrating in some fights. Its the only melee I use True North on every dreadwinder just so I dont have to be in the right spot for it. If you're fighting a boss and need to be out of position due to mech then your 123 suffers which is a given on most melee be feels worst on VPR. Noxious Gnash feels to short, should be 30s like RPR is. It also feel like its max melee range is shorter then the others. I dont really see it as homogenized like other jobs have been and more making it more enjoyable to play. If 30% play the job but 70% feels its too hard than that is an issue that needs to be fixed from a game health point of view. Not saying make it is but some tweaks here and there will go a long way. People forget casuals/mid-core players make up a large portion of the game.

[@ryanhughes3569]

So far I have 40 total clears combined on the two current EX trials, using viper, and my best parse with it at the moment is 95 on EX1. My personal experience with Viper, as someone who has spent most of the last two expansions playing Melee DPS. I don't necessarily see the issues that people have with playing it.. I believe the major issue is a combination of it being 'new' and people just haven't fully grasped how to play it yet (even though in all honesty it is rather simple really), that and or the playstyle just isn't for them. That being said, I do think there are some minor flaws with Viper, even though I like the job quite a bit. I personally like it's positionals, however compared to playing as a Reaper or Ninja, doing something like EX2 and trying to consistantly land your positionals is a bit of a logistical nightmare, and I can only imagine any non-wall boss in the next savage tier is going to pretty much be a similar deal. The only other thing that can be a bit problematic is disengaging too quickly can cuase you to rather easily lose your ogcd weaves, but trying to greed for them can also get you killed, and overall it can be a lil unecessarily punishing (although this is also where stuff like Rattling Coils come in for the sake of disengage optimization, but it's just more of a weird jankyness feeling that a lot of other melee don't really have to deal with--the only exceptions I can really think of are like, Gunbreaker if they're maintanking a boss and need to move during a continuation window haha). I genuinely think that Noxious Gnash being 20 - 40 seconds is honestly a pretty big form of skill expression though, changing it to 30 - 60 seconds would make it feel a little too similar to Reaper in my opinion. Also you can currently do the whole double reawaken burst without losing Noxious Gnash, but it does borderline require you to overcap before entering your burst, essentially.

[@JJP1890]

Only issue I have with Viper is too many separate triggered actions to make a streamlined hotbar layout, otherwise I love it.

[@redrunner04]

I think the positional requirement on Viper's 123 combo should be swapped around so that each button/keybind being rear or flank is static. That might be what they're referring to.

[@JoshVanAlstine]

I'm pleased to see adjustments coming so soon to some jobs, though I hope this isn't a sign that they still plan to ignore others.

[@redthorne5643]

With what you said on Lightspeed changes and some Thin Air PTSD, I'm really worried that it turns into a 60s/2charges swiftcast. I sincerely hope they won't mess up this one.

[@waferdaze8017]

Black Mage at low levels is just so weird. I get keeping the fire 3 luck proc, at level 50 that is just one of your more notable bursts, hard to contol as it is. But the umbral ice change? So weird, mainly between combat. I get wanting to give people a reason to use more Ice magic, even if it is just one spell (which we were already doing, this just better trains that blizzard 4 has a similar relation to blizzard 1 as fire 4 has to fire 1). Though using lucid dreaming as a black mage earnestly feels wrong. Though that transpose thing was kind of awkward already, now we gotta time manage with it. Outside of combat black mage feels like it has a lot to keep track of now, lol.

[@Kiobao]

With viper, I just figured the dot may become 10 seconds longer and maybe the coils no longer having positionals. The busyness of a job isnt really inpacted by taking out the coils positionals. Sure you are "less busy" moving in that one skill but its still active over all. Maybe its also because idc for positionals and dont think they add anything of value that i care to uphold.

[@schoolmonkey13]

The problem with the extended recast timer on Setsugekka, at least as I've heard it from one SAM main, is that while it smoothed out things on the two minute timescale, it made things really awkward to line up during your 1 minute Midare. You'd end up either drifiting or overwriting Higanbana. EDIT: Here's an explanation kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJrPi5uvZ5dkjsUsi=rI8wPKnUINC9CFYi

[@AlphaXXI]

I almost booed when I saw summoner wasn't on there x) I'm not team "bring it back to pre-endwalker" but the current rotation is just weird, Solar Bahamut feels really tacked-on. There should be some sort of mechanic behind it, because in its current state it just feels like a vastly superior bahamut you get in between regular bahamut and a phoenix that now feels out of place thematically. But I guess that's a rather big change to work on. I'm kinda expecting there to be more to the job in 8.0 at this point.

[@henryhunter9643]

I'm confused about the comment that Black Mage has difficulty regaining MP. I watched a video guide for new Black Mage that said that in Umbral Ice III, you will regain 10,000 MP per ice spell cast. This means one Blizzard III or Blizzard II to set up Umbral Ice III, Blizzard IV or one Freeze, which works in great with the 'free fire spells' buffs they provide. And you get Umbral Ice III in the 30s or 40s I'm sure, so pretty early on. So how is it that 60-70 Black Mages are seemingly struggling to regen their MP?

[@DarkDyllon]

he was talking about lvl 70 and 80s ultimates, which has a lot of downtime. pre-DT they would switch to ice and regen MP, now they can't and basically sit at the same MP (plus a bit more from natural regen) through the lengthy downtime periods.

[@henryhunter9643]

@@DarkDyllon they still have Lucid Dreaming which has no other use other than these situations. Switch to ice, pop Lucid Dreaming while you wait, as well as the natural MP regen.

[@Devil-Saint]

​@@henryhunter9643 I main blm and to explain why we struggle pre umbral soul: in dungeons between add pulls you usually end your phase on flare, leaving you with 0 mp. This can also often happen on bosses as they frequently die when you are in fire and nearly empty. Even with lucid dreaming it is no where near enough to tick back to full until the next pack. And unless you start at 10000,you need to cast b3/b2 followed by b4 or freeze to fill back up anyway, so your damage is terrible. It becomes even worse in dungeons at 70 specifically, because then you have polyglot generation. How do you earn I? By staying in ice or fire for 30 sec, and each stance is 15 sec long. Without umbral soul your only option for maintaining time is transpose between elements. But if you transpose from ice to fire to keep polyglot generating you miss out on lucid dreaming ticks. The alternative is to drop stance all together to keep lucid going, but that loses you access to your strongest spells in your kit. In ultimates it has to do with downtime, with no target and only lucid and transpose to keep element, you will be no where close to max mp like we could before when the boss comes back. This is especially painful as often when they come back it is burst phase, and by the time we get our mp setup and ready to go, buffs are already halfway gone and boss will phase soon again. Hope that clarifies it a little

[@AzureSkyCiel]

I really really REALLY dislike the removal of damage from DRK and GNB's gap closers. The attacks looked cool and felt nice.

[@HeroGuy3]

I was considering dropping samurai before this announcement I said during the lead up to DT release that if they found a way to remove filler from samurai I'd celebrate it. The monkey's paw has curled and for the briefest moment I was cursed to contemplate uninstalling once every 55 seconds I cannot count the number of times I've drifted my gcd because I pressed tsubame gaeshi then got up to make a coffee only to realise that I had pressed the button a full half second too early and so failed to queue the attack At least when I'm paying attention I get to go for a quick run inbetween gcds

[@visionofgrey]

My only complaint about Viper is the skills sound like how my parents named me - shaking a bunch of silverware in a box. Jokes aside, I came back after playing Reaper and made no system changes on my PS5 but the combat skills get muffled and sound even lower when in a party. Tried to search everywhere and researched the in game and PS5 sound options but it’s still so bad. Love the class but almost unplayable as sound is one of the most reinforcing stimulus in any game.

[@digitalatom6433]

Yes, as a BLM, I came to find out that pre level 64, when you get B4, your best option to get MP back is B1. I have to actually cast this level 1 spell with the second lowest potency in my entire kit all the way up to level 63. And even then, if you got no target, you're screwed. You'll have to drop eno chan and let your MP return out of combat by waiting. Yeah. So either drop Umbral Soul a lot of levels or up the potency of B1 under Umbral Ice (but not too much). As for the Viper thing, I agree. It's too busy? Eh... did you watch the job trailer, buddy? If you want a less busy job, play WHM lol. Scouting DPS are meant to be busy AF. Ninja has a super busy burst with a calm rotation in between, whilst Viper is just busy in general and goes bananas when in burst. If you want to play a boring and simple DPS that goes slow, play SMN. Actually SMN is even less busy than WHM now on the account that it's a DPS and doesn't have to heal, but you're spamming the same 3 lego buttons anyways. Ah, how that used to be different. There was a time when SMN was so gigabrain that some people didn't play it because it was too complex lol. But from those iterations, 4.5 SMN was amazing. Honestly 4.5 had the most amazing job designs in general IMO. SAM was as freestyle as a house dance floor, DRK asked the question: "A burst? what's that? Oh dark arts, right. Wanna see me literally tank a dungeon without a healer by DRAINING THEIR BLOOD WITH DARK MAGIC?" As well as Bard going "I have too much criiiiiiiiit, I can't spend bloodletters/rain of death fast enough!". Oh, and MCH going "A 1-2-3 combo? Nah nah nah, my friend it's 1, 2, then 1, then 3, then 2, then 1, then 3 again, then 2! Also I stick your ass with a C4 explosive and roast you alive as part of my regular rotation, and that C4 bomb is basically half my damage". Broken and stupid, but you lived for that Wildfire crit of 15.000 damage was super fun. Which is today's equivalent of a bahamut akh morn doing ten times that. You could visibly see the boss' HP drop a significant smidge when that thing went off after executing that complex as hell burst correctly, hehe. What else... well it was also the days that RDM had spam scatter as an AOE rotation with the occasional 7-moulinet burst. RDM AOE never got better. Only worse. BLM was way more of a turret, so the infamous "black mage spots" were partially birthed here. Paladin... sucked, so anyone who played it either never picked up another tank or was just that job loyal and a nice guy cuz they were the only tank with as much raid mitigation as an effing healer. Also cover strats. Speaking of healers, AST was... interesting. Especially if you liked gambling. Or had a bad cohealer and wanted the Bole to restore their MP lol. Or wanted to piss off your DPS with the Arrow. Except if they were BLM or Monk. It's why the Balance is still revered as a god. SCH actually had 2 pets that did different things. Only healer with an AOE cleanse and 2 raidwide DPS buffs and a silence, very important. Also DoTs for days. You stacked 3 of the suckers, and 1 was your AOE rotation. I am not even joking. Ah, Miasma 2... And WHM? Well it used to be cooler. Had Aero 3. Coolest-ass wind spell ever. But other than that... not much to say. And DRG... well you know the memes. They exist for a reason. Executing Jump was a real geronimoooooo moment. Was fun though. Yep, best patch ever.

[@Elinshir]

they colour coded vipers positionals for it's main combo, if you can't do a positional with such a big visual aid, that's a skill issue and the job isn't for you, the only other two u have to worry about are the duel blade positionals, really not that hard, I hate to quote dark souls here, but just git gud, it's a super simple fun job to play

[@ame5445]

12:50 This was me exactly! I found myself forgetting to use the aoe dot xD

[@TaleSeeker]

Becoming a Viper main, and I think the busyness Is fine, the only change to lessen that I would make is to increase the dread debuff timer from 20s to 30s, I could leave it but to lessen busy-ness I think the change wouldn't hurt the playstyle. Beyond that, I don't think positionals add much so them being lessened is fine with me.

[@Sparkthor]

As i've just finished the main scenario of DawnTrail i'm starting to watch some point of view. To me, Viper changes will concerned mostly Coil and Den combo, which were odd to me at the very start : 3s recast with a attack speed bonus of 15% means a 2.45s base recast, considering they must be double weaved, and positionnals, i think there is something to much here. Also, Dreadwinder and Pit of Dread are 3s recast, witch is odd as they don't have weaving attached to them. Also the range issue is to me to reawaken combos, nothing to big here. For Sam I trully think it's really on personal opinion, but having a long recast may solve some issues for top players but for all others it's just feel odd. It also greatly reduce the power of tendo Setstugekka. I have nothing to add for others jobs you didn't mention. Also, if SE is reacting very quick to Viper changes, it's very probably to do internal concern even before the release. i won't be surprised if it's something they wanna address even before the 7.0 release and some feedback just confort them doing so.

[@furancodensetsu2086]

Lv 100 astro skill is disappointing

[@devxved]

Same for blm man, same for blm

[@snapboy300]

There's still one EXTREMELY CRUCIAL fix that seems to be getting overlooked for Ninja- Huton's tooltip still says that it does fire damage.

[@lost0viking]

VPR plays a lot like older MNK I feel, and feels more natural to me than current MNK does.

[@YubariRaticate]

I'm also sad sages dots don't stack anymore but I don't exactly see the problem you described with using the aoe dot in dungeon pulls. I think its fun running alongside the tank to dot the enemies as were pulling groups

[@lordarcalinox8582]

Fellow healer main here. What he's saying is, due the fact that the dots no longer stack with each other, applying your single target dot while running and collecting the mobs for a W2W pull renders Eukrasian Dyskrasia uselss in nearly all dungeon ad pulls. You want to keep the already applied single target dots up due to higher damage and since they are already applied you can go straight into healing and other aoes on the ads and just ignore the dot aoe. It would be nice if they allowed it to stack again.

[@skyhunterrhythe5674]

I think the viper changes are probably more geared towards those playing on controller. Right now most of Viper’s actions either have to be on the face buttons, or you have to be comfortable in working the left thumbstick with either your right hand or left wrist. The Dreadwinder combo in particular takes up what is a deceptively small amount of hotbar real estate, and with the AOE rotation requiring 8 actions to be mapped on one side it gets very difficult to pull off some maneuvers unless again you’re comfortable holding the controller in weird ways. I imagine that’s what they are trying to fix right now.

[@stickytim64]

Been playing on controller for a decade now and not once have i ever used my wrist to move. Its all about that claw tech.

[@ZQFarnzy]

As a controller user, Viper is the smoothest, and easiest to play DPS I have ever played.

[@skyhunterrhythe5674]

@@ZQFarnzy I’d be curious to see some other controller hotbars. I followed similar theming to what I have done with other jobs, and for some reason Viper just feels so unbelievably janky to me. Doubly weird because I played Reaper in EW and I really liked the flow of that job. I think viper is EASY to play, but it’s just got janky flow to me. It feels like the game is asking me to faceroll my controller and rewarding me for doing so.

[@mocmeo4425]

Skydeep cenote theme for background is actually so peak

[@Quilmeleon]

Please do not adjust viper. Its perfect way it is. True north is vipers best friend. Positionals? What are those lol

[@DeadSpaceWing]

Not even with True North. If you care about positionals that badly, then I got one word for y'all. 🤓

[@Quilmeleon]

@DeadSpaceWing Positionsals have never been an issue as other melees have had them since ARR was new. I fail to see the complaints people have. After a while, it's just instinct to do them.

[@azael1633]

as a 5.x SMN enjoyer there is a part of me that love seeing good jobs being dumbed down

[@vabbi_1]

Yoshi P is too quick to give in to crybabying. He needs to learn to stand his ground. F* that one grandma who's life is ruined by positionals. Everyone else is having fun

[@BaithNa]

You could argue the opposite is true because there's plenty of things people have been begging for that Yoshida hasn't even acknowledged publicly.

[@DeadSpaceWing]

Who even does positionals anyway? 🤓s

[@BHS289]

I actually really like new black mage but wouldn’t hate some extra QOL regarding MP management

[@TheSoundNinja]

Viper changes: boo, sounds like babies need to get better Pictomancer changes: yes, please take their divinity away

[@workw-yp3iu]

i've never had anyone steal enmity from me, don't know what those people are talking about with tanks needing a change. they're fine...

[@scottishboy112]

For Samurai, I have to disagree. To me it was rather jarring going from a normal Midare and such to the longer recast of the Level 100 Version. And it felt bad to me. I much preferred it when I was weaving 1 maybe 2 OGCDs in. Not to mention, anything UNDER 100 will have players going back to the 2.5 anyway.

[@drarchon5267]

For vpr changes, all i can really see as being needed *might* be the positionals on the dreadwinder gcds and a slight range increase on the dreadwinder ogcds and death rattle (3y to 5y, just like what continuation got). Changing the positionals on your 123 makes no sense, because if they do that why even have 4 enders? hope they don't go overboard on this. also as a gnb main please for the love of god give me that enmity on my gap closer, dungeon runs are so scuffed right now.

[@Zaela_Zhezzaia]

I love Viper. I think it is easy to pick up but difficult of Master. In full on complex boss battles. It feels so rewarding when you pull of your super burst smoothly. It feels like it design to be a more advance class for people who want more advance game play. Which makes me worry it will be dumbed down for Savage. Which if you have to dumb your game down just for the minority of players to use it in the hardest content. Then maybe it not the class that the problem. Maybe your raids are being poorly design. You should not have to make all the classes boring super easy. Because the only time the game has a challenge is savage/ultimate raids. Maybe tone down this raids and make classes more complex/harder to play.

[@ElitistAdam]

I wish they would change auto crossbow on mch. There's no point to it unless it's 5+ targets. Give it more potency or let it refresh my check and double check abilities like blazing shot.

[@whatneutral]

black mage changes are a genuine joke. people didnt play the class because the leveling experience was a joke, not because the class was hard. standard feels so boring now because you dont have to keep track of sharpcast, we lost nonstandard, aoe rotation feels bad, thunder feels like trash and we got a shit gcd in flare star instead of something interesting in ice phase, or a new xeno spender

[@Gryphon13]

Worried about Viper changes I love the class so far… If they remove the positionals from the dreadwinder skills I think that would be fine honestly but hopefully thats the extent of the changes.