43% of Evangelicals DON'T Think Jesus is God.....What?!

[@TurtleHunter29]

I met with a pastor for a local nondenominational church recently and we had a discussion about this. We talked about how he normally writes sermons that focus on people’s practical day to day issues and how to approach them from a Christian perspective. Meanwhile they would really delve into theology during small groups or bible studies. This sounds fine until you consider that not everybody in the church participates in those activities and this results in a portion of the congregation that hasn’t really been taught much of the meat of Christian theology.

[@2b16p]

We're going through the process of calling a new pastor at my small local church and was heartened to hear from surveys that we want a pastor who will teach the "meat of christianity" to the entire congregation.

[@stephendunlap2590]

Well put my friend I absolutely agree

[@JosueSantiagoG]

Good insight. Makes a lot of sense.

[@katherinec2759]

Interestingly, the church that I grew up and the church that I go to now both have the opposite problem. The pastors are really good on solid teaching from the pulpit, and the practical day to day stuff is addressed in Sunday School, etc. But not everyone goes to the Sunday School hour, so there are a fair number of people who are really solid theologically, but their lives are struggling, because they don't know how to apply it. It's really hard at our current church, because they don't even HAVE a Sunday School hour, the practical stuff is in weekday evening events, which is all but impossible with toddlers. I wish there was a good way to have a balance between the two.

[@NMemone]

I visited my local nondenom church for a bit and it was the complete opposite. At the time they were studying Colossians, and every week the 45-minute sermon would be based around a handful of verses from that book. Then the next week they'd study the next few verses. It would take them months to get through one book. Somewhere there has got to be a happy middle ground!

[@nathangrimley7329]

Political identity vs. Religious identity. Also the reason why there's this political identity is because many religious evangelicals have sacrificed their commitment to Christ for their commitment to country/political power.

[@mkc1rrc]

hit the nail on the head here

[@simontemplar3359]

God I wish I wasn't also watching this happening in real time... I think you're 100% correct.

[@sanskritprayers]

Well, there it is, isn't it?

[@yeahnothx-e9l]

100% This is exactly what I was going to say. How many people wear "evangelical" as a political label now? I can barely even say "evangelical" now without cringing from the political baggage the word now carries.

[@archmdc370]

God will separate the sheep and the goats...the wheat and the weeds. The political identity will be meaningless at that time.

[@g33k37]

If someone denys the Deity of Christ, they are not a hyper-liberal Christian. They are simply not Christian.

[@briandelaney9710]

Unitarians

[@kimadams2995]

Yup. Unitarians are not Christian. Christian-flavored (like so many beliefs) but not Christian. The Deity of Jesus is the primo non-negotiable doctrine of Christianity.@@briandelaney9710

[@MarcosElMalo2]

They aren’t denying the divinity of Christ, they’re denying the divinity of the man named Jesus. Jesus became God in the act of crucifixion, dying to wash away our sins, yadayadayada, eternal life. And the resurrection is the proof of his divinity. And the only proof of the resurrection is the Gospels (if you believe that the Gospels are eyewitness accounts). And that is why the Bible must be inerrant. It’s the only “proof” of their central faith. The teachings of Jesus are optional to being a Christian. Some denominations put more emphasis on the teachings. Some, like the evangelicals, do not.

[@WiseLittleOwl]

@@MarcosElMalo2 The man named Jesus was the incarnate Logos through Whom all things are created, with no beginning or end. When we say that God “begot” Jesus, it means that God Himself took on flesh. Christ’s divine nature was not “created” and has always existed, but His human nature was assumed within a specific period of time. His fleshly body was biologically provided by Mary, so He was still entirely human; but His essence was no less divine than the time before His incarnation. Jesus is God, not just a good teacher. The divine and human nature of Christ both exist simultaneously, so the person of Jesus is fully God and fully human.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@MarcosElMalo2 Buddy, please stay in your Mommy's basement. Your ignorance is staggering if you are not just lying.: 1) Jesus IS the Christ or Messiah. If the Messiah is divine (God) then Jesus is God, 2) John who knew Jesus SAYS that he was ALWAYS God. He did NOT "become" God at the crucifixion John 1:1-15 3) The resurrection certainly IS proof that Jesus the Messiah is God BUT there were other pretty good hints - curing the sick and lame, raising the dead, preaching with authority, controlling the weather and seas, feeding the multitude with a few loaves and fishes, etc. SMH 4) The "only proof" of the resurrection is the testimony of those who saw him resurrected. What other evidence do you want? 5) There is zero need for the Bible to be inerrant (and it is not). Al that is necessary is for the New Testament accounts to be reasonably reliable (and they certainly are.) 6) The teachings of Jesus are NEVER optional and certainly are not for evangelicals. Jesus told us plainly to follow his commandments or teaching.

[@jaredbajer712]

You're more likely to hear a sermon titled "Living Your Best Life Now" rather than "Essential Christian Doctrine" in evangelical churches today. That is to our shame.

[@skyttyl]

100% agreed. I get way more out of just reading one of the books than picking a topic and trying to piece scripture references together. I look at it this way; the first is taking myself out of the driver seat and letting God teach me His way, and the second is just me trying to direct the conversation instead of listening, and that is one of the big themes; man trying to control things when God is the one in control.

[@TheRealReidMeister]

I could be way off base (for context, I am an Orthodox Christian) here but I don’t think it’s a problem of “it’s not simple enough” or “we need to teach the basics more”. It’s that the evangelical churches are not actually demanding much from their parishioners. I don’t even mean intellectually. Largely, the people have been able to just have feel good messages with no actual integration between Christianity and their home life. This causes people to not give their religion its proper thought and action because it’s just something for Sundays.

[@Lucas-jy7cv]

I agree with you.

[@MattWhitmanTMBH]

What you are describing is a thing, but it's the not the case at my church.

[@TheRealReidMeister]

@@MattWhitmanTMBHI’m glad to hear that. I obviously don’t think it’s every evangelical church but I do think it’s a problem that the evangelical community faces as a whole. God bless you

[@BenjaminExequielReyesGaete]

It's not something that happen in any evangelical Church I know. I'm shocked because I never heard of something like this. People in evangelical Churches around me are very conservative and pentecostal, they repeat like parrots that Jesus is God, they use language like "be cover in the blood of God" "God died on the cross for us", In fact the major crush between evangelicals and Jehovah's witnesses is that Jehovah's witnesses deny the Trinity, moreover, in my Church even has been preach about the Trinity and the personhood of the Holy Spirit, additional, in my Church is not preached the prosperity Gospel, and preaching can be sometime pretty scary because they read the old testament punishments on the Church.

[@JohnMinehan-lx9ts]

@@MattWhitmanTMBH Nor most of what are characterized as Evangelical Churches, but I can see the value of a Magisterium (as the Orthodox, Catholic and Lutherans emphasize) in keeping a unity of opinion. This may be an outgrowth of the printing press that can only be dealt with by teaching and preaching.

[@McCainenl]

There's quite a bit of political science evidence suggesting that - in the US especially - "evangelical" is now primarily a political ideology, not a religious one

[@leullakew9579]

Evangelical is an international interdenominational/ecumenical theologically label that most of U.S.-American secular media mistakes for a political ideology, American Civil Religion, or Ceremonial Deism due to the Republican Party trying to convince Evangelicals to vote for them in exchange for maintaining socially conservative (cultural conservative) values (which they don’t even do a good job of), convincing non-Christian/non-Evangelical Political Conservatives into adopting the term “Evangelical” as a synonym for “Right-Wing Conservative,” & Pew keeps reinforcing the false Evangelical vs People of Color (POC) dichotomy where they regard Evangelical as a synonym for White Evangelical & lump all Black Protestants together making it difficult for ppl to compare without access to raw data bc it doesn’t differentiating between Black Evangelicals & Black Mainline Protestants even though most Majority Black denominations r Evangelical, & ignoring o/POC Evangelicals/combing them w/Pew’s mostly White-Normative “Evangelical” category. It’s mostly White Evangelicals that vote Republican (most of them being conservative on social and economic issues/are single-issue social conservative voters) while Black Evangelicals tend to vote Democratic (although they mostly hold socially conservative values, and theologically conservative beliefs, they tend to be economically progressives). If Pew started recognizing Black Evangelicals as Evangelical like Gallup does, it would drop the prevalence of Evangelicals voting Republican (Political Conservative) down to an extent within their data. Too many outsiders erroneously think that Evangelicalism is a White American cultural phenomenon or conservative political ideology. Conservative Christianity ≠ Republican or Political Conservative. ----------- Not all of these people who claim they’re Christian, speak Christianese, or who are Conservatives in the Political Sense are actually Evangelical Christian or even Christian in general, a good chunk of these people only say they’re Christian or claim to support Christians because their parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and ancestors were Christian or want to grow their influence among Christian communities through ulterior motives. Also, remember that the United States was NOT founded as a Christian nation, a good chunk of the Founding Fathers were Culturally Christian, Deist, theologically liberal, or sacrilegious heretics that syncretized Western Classical thought, American exceptionalism, extremist forms of nationalism and even in some cases White supremacy with Christianity creating a false religion called “American Civil Religion” and “Ceremonial Deism” that on the surface looks like Christianity but in reality is very shallow, references a generic theism, and just co-opts Judaeo-Christian terminology for state propaganda and to push a political agenda or social movement (especially among Political Conservatives). Most of these people described have turned America or their respective countries into a deity instead of focusing on Jesus, some people are turning America, Patriotism, and their ideology into an idol syncretizing it with Christianity (Political Liberals do the same to a lesser extent with their own ideologies). Many of them claim to be Evangelical Christians but actually are either atheists or theologically liberal Mainline Protestants LARPing as Evangelicals because the Republican Party told them they’re Evangelical or Christian in general because they hold mostly Politically Conservative (even specifically social conservative) views while in reality their Theology is mostly Liberal (unorthodox and heretical) / theologically liberal. The evils and idolatry of American Civil Religion and Western Classics Civil Religion is seeping into some American churches, especially many of the vocal and socio-politically influential ones; this ideology needs to be cast out (exorcised) and rebuked. There are many people who are only Culturally Christian, Nominally Christian, or Diest who claim to be Christin for social or cultural reasons but in actuality are Atheist, Agnostic, Deist, Unitarian Universalist, Theologically Liberal (Liberal Christianity) and New Age Mystics, etc. A Cultural Christian is an atheist, agnostic, deist, pagan, non-theist, member of another religion, or a careless nominal follower of Christianity who is LARPing as a Christian. They only say they’re Christian or claim to support Christians because their parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and ancestors were Christian or want to grow their influence among Christian communities through ulterior motives.

[@SeanWinters]

This seems astroturfed, as in it's something the educational elite in academia are pushing, but the average person who is a Christian typically does not define themselves as Evangelical. This alone makes it seem as though these people who have been labeled Evangelical in the study did not label themselves, but rather they have been labeled incorrectly. Considering that conflating evangelicalism with politics and political leaning, I imagine they essentially said "are you Republican" and if they said yes, the study team said they were evangelical.

[@Skipsul]

You are not the only one to notice this, and it has been a growing problem for decades. The former CEO of Thomas Nelson (before they were bought out by Zondervan/Harper), had to break contracts with popular Evangelical authors because they espoused what was effectively Arianism. This was nearly 20 years ago.

[@untoages]

I know the man you're referring to. He's my godfather 😅

[@untoages]

@userJohnSmith True story! He’s a deacon too.

[@untoages]

@userJohnSmith NO no 😂 the CEO he’s referring to. His name is Michael Hyatt.

[@TorianTammas]

@Skipsul What were the main thesis of these authors?

[@PreacherJimC]

I know how it happened, Biblical illiteracy in the church. Too many so-called preachers & Pastors are preaching "feel good" messages, & motivational speeches. Preachers need to get back to preaching doctrine, and exegetical preaching, without shame or apology.

[@susalkasarahi]

I was going to write the same thing! A lot of these “preachers” just give Ted talks and are only on the pulpit because they are great public speakers. The majority don’t even have any theological educational background.

[@ChrisMusante]

You want to 'feel good' ? You do NOT want the Lord's Day - see Amos 5: 18 for a reference point. We should NOT have killed Him... Paul got it right in 1 Corinthians 2:8.

[@PreacherJimC]

@@ChrisMusante I fail to see the connection between Amos and Paul in 1 Corinthians. Amos is describing God coming in His judgment in Amos verse 18. With 1 Cor. as it relates to unbelievers are still of this world, as Paul focuses on the influential people in our sinful culture.

[@RodMartinJr]

No! The eisegesis started in the 4th century, corrupting biblical interpretation, murdering those who did not agree, and even burning their books. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯

[@ChrisMusante]

@@PreacherJimC - No... Amos is talking about the LORD coming in judgement not Elohim. And if you read Romans 2:12-14 it says that ALL with suffer the penalties of the law, have it or not. And those who have it and do it, are no different than those whom the Lord has written the laws on their hearts - instead of in a 'scroll'.

[@DaleBoyce2012]

Great video, Matt. I don't have any definite answers, but anecdotally I can tell you that the category of American Evangelical has been hijacked to some degree to define a political position. Perhaps that skews how people self-identify and could account for some of that data. I find that when I invite people to my church, the offer is often declined because they believe our congregation belongs to a political party that they wouldn't want to be part of. I'm not entirely sure when or how that happened, but that seems to be an even scarier issue. Paul might even call it a 'different gospel'.

[@pkmcnett5649]

The media did that and they use it as a derogatory word.

[@emerybayblues]

Funny people don't feel that about. "black churches" which have things like "Soul to the Polls" Sunday. Only when white evangelicals show some political ankle does the media and certain concerned white evangelical elites get concerned.

[@hamarr47]

This is all anecdotal, but I've run into a surprising number of Evangelicals who are so sola scriptura that they reject any word, any doctrine not found directly in the Bible. They will dismiss the Nicene Creed, for instance, because it's "man-made words". There was a somewhat famous e-celeb who got baptized again recently who posted on Twitter that she got baptized in the name of Jesus only because the word Trinity does not appear in the Bible. A lot of the replies were similarly rejecting the trinity, modalism and other Christological heresies.

[@dj393]

A Jesus only baptism is not a sacrament. It is a waste of water.

[@seg162]

How does someone read the Acts of the Apostles and not read the end of the Gospel according to Matthew? That seeming contradiction (really, it's Luke using "Jesus" as a shorthand for the true baptismal formula) is grounds for research, at least.

[@AwakeningAfrica]

It could possibly be linked to the lack of making disciples rather than just converts. Evangelicals had been focused on numbers and "bring a friend" Sundays instead of choosing to be deeply rooted in Christ and teaching new believers how to do the same. (Discipleship being 1/1 life and intentional bible study, not a classroom) I am encouraged by many of the churches I am connected with making more of an effort in discipleship! Thanks for the video Matt!

[@MattWhitmanTMBH]

Good take. Thank you for the comment.

[@DustyBooks2020]

Just for thought…contrast that with a denomination like Orthodoxy where the catechism can be 6 months to 3 years with a sponsor and under the guidance of a spiritual father. Very different.

[@TorianTammas]

people pay the bills and it does not matter what they belief. So whatever fills the cash register is told.

[@amandalindsey5860]

Really good thought here!

[@mollysmom4]

I'm Catholic. That is shocking. And heartbreaking.

[@MrPeach1]

Well alot of us apparently don't believe the Eucharist is really Jesus. So we also have work to do.

[@lanetrain]

It's 40% for Roman Catholics, plus another 8% who are "not sure"

[@irritated888]

It's embarrassingly bad for a Catholic to say they don't know Jesus is God, because the Nicene Creed is recited every Mass after the Gospel and homily.

[@FourEyedFrenchman]

It's not unlike the crisis in our own ranks, where only something like 25-30% of Catholics believe Christ is present in the Eucharist. A tragedy begotten by generations of terrible catechesis both before and after Vatican II.

[@LearneredCatholic]

What is an Evangelical Catholic? I'm Catholic and I've never heard of Catholics who identify as Evangelical...

[@timprovost8820]

1. Cultural Christians, especially for those for whom evangelical is a cultural/political label. Here in the UK, the evangelical/political identity is not really a thing, but there are still people for whom the wider Christian (especially C of E) label is more a social / cultural thing 2. I do think that Christian literacy is very poor nowadays, especially among the 'cultural Christians' / those on the fringes of churches. It's a reminder that we need to teach the basics and not assume that people know stuff

[@goofygrandlouis6296]

So let me get this straight. Evangelicals don't believe in the divinity of Christ... but they believe in the Rapture, and want to destroy a bunch of civilians in wars for it. uh. Truly great guys. They certainly understood the message of the Gospel reeeeeally well 🙄🙄🙄

[@aidanperreault8605]

See above. I think this only explains the data if one of self-report or (very weird) people aren’t actually reading the sentences when t answer, just trying to predict which party gives which answer.

[@nick2me1]

Matt, thanks for thinking through the possible causes here, that’s so important for this kind of discourse. I do statistics and data analysis for a living, and I work with a couple of folks who specialize in surveys that would tell you surveys are one of the hardest types of “test” to do well. In particular, it is very nearly impossible to conduct a survey with no bias. That bias comes from how questions are phrased, as you pointed out, as well as how and where the survey is administered, and how the respondents are selected (or if they select themselves via “opt in”). Another thing to be aware of is the data filtering - always keep track of how many filters you have active when looking at data like this. With each new filter, you’re looking at smaller and more niche subsets of the data, which means both that the sample size is going down (so inferring observed trends to hold for the larger population is less likely to be valid), and it’s easier to forget how specific the group you’ve filtered to is and draw too broad a conclusion. Thanks for the great work you do here!

[@xpictos777]

Convert to Holy Orthodoxy here. I am so glad they do their Christology before their Soteriology. It prevents issues like this.

[@acekoala457]

Orthodoxy begins and ends with "Who Christ is".

[@typologyandprophecy]

I was just thinking that. When you start with the cross and not the incarnation its no wonder you have Arianism taking over.

[@NavelOrangeGazer]

Oh there's probably plenty of nominals in Orthodoxy if you polled the average person. Sadly this is an issue across the board but I can understand the evangelical numbers given that there is nearly zero reverence in the evangelical world. Especially in the "Jesus is my boyfriend church is a u2 concert" world. I would bet that if you studied the evangelical numbers deeper there is a strong overlap with this Christological pseudo arianism and the trend of denying Christmas and Easter/Pascha as "pagan holidays" it's pretty clear this trend in evangelicalism at some level is an infection from the post "great awakening" sects (SDA, Mormons, JWs).

[@maxvarjagen9810]

American orthodoxy is very different from european orthodoxy. Orthodoxy in america exists largely as another choice among many, and a sixable percentage are converts. In europe, orthodoxy is much more of an ethnic thing, and you’ll find many self described orthodox who see it as part of their political or national identity rather than true belivers, including Putin himself.

[@hakooplayplay3212]

​​@@maxvarjagen9810thats true, in Russia we have plenty people who identify self as Orthodox, but in fact know too little about belief. We usually single out those who attend church services and participate in the sacraments and those who simply call themselves Orthodox. Fortunately, the number of conscious faith among young people is increasing. Among the older generations, the percentage of presenters is quite stable, but there are more young people in temples

[@RealKansasMan]

This really puts Matthew 7:13-14 into perspective: *“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."* And this also puts Matthew 7:22-29 into perspective: *"Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? ' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"* Be really careful which pastor/church or doctrine you follow. Be in the Word of God and study the scriptures yourselves and compare them to what you are being told. There are many wolves in sheep's clothing out there with many false doctrines.

[@gaetanemcgraw5567]

❤ I am Roman Catholic. I pray for perseverance. We are living in end times. Matthew 24: 13-14

[@gaetanemcgraw5567]

Ephesians 6: 10-17 May God protect you. May the Holy Spirit guide you. May you see His Divine and Holy Face.

[@basedsigmalifter9482]

Its a lot easier if you look to Jesus’ Church that is guided by the Holy Spirit, the Catholic Church. I hope that unity of the faith can be achieved, but sadly it’s impossible with protestantism.

[@Lucas-jy7cv]

I told my wife that the gate is narrow. She said ok. I said you don't understand everything in life is distraction. Everything.

[@HistoryNerd808]

​@@basedsigmalifter9482I get it's Catholic doctrine but I think it's pretty limiting to say that God can only work through one denomination. I'm personally non-denominational but I think we need ti stop with the Protestant-Catholic fights. I think Catholic doctrine adds way too much to the Bible that isn't there but we're all Christians here.

[@jayjackson5932]

I absolutely love the bottom of the screen chapter layout. Something about how my mind works really appreciates seeing the points you are going to make in order on screen.

[@IsacSandelin]

Yes, it helps me to compartmentalize the information better as it comes in, in relations to the topic at large.

[@mkshffr4936]

The Seeker Sensitive movement has discarded doctrine in order to attract the world. We now have a generation that identifies as evangelical Christians but have never even been taught the basics of the faith.

[@SomePeopleCallMeWulfman]

Many church services are basically pop concerts followed by an inspirational speech.

[@adradicem]

A lot of pop churches also speak about God in such a broad way that I wouldn't doubt a Muslim or anyone else would have any issue saying "amen" to that. Need to put Christ's name up front

[@goofygrandlouis6296]

@@SomePeopleCallMeWulfman lol 😂

[@FishermensCorner]

Seeker sensitive? Is that really what it's called

[@mkshffr4936]

@@FishermensCorner Yes indeed. Kind of a misnomer in a way but that is the name of the movement.

[@JacobRobin81]

22:16 perhaps what it is telling you is that people are actually reading the Bible for themselves and coming to their own conclusions rather than trusting the “experts” or appealing to church authority in regards to doctrine.

[@justjason7662]

I’m a 5 Solas affirming Protestant that holds to the two sacraments of Baptism and the Lord’s Supper. I don’t say this lightly… the “protest” is rooted deeply in me. But I would rather take communion with the Roman Catholic with their transubstantiation than share a church with a “Christian” that does not know who the Lord is. Anyone can say they are Christian. But if you don’t even know the most basic fundamental truth of the faith, then it’s empty words. A little bit of yeast leavens the whole loaf.

[@SeanWinters]

Well that's the thing, these people ARE NOT having communion, they are supposedly "evangelical in belief"(obviously untrue) but they don't attend any church. That's not an evangelical.

[@TorianTammas]

As Jesus never did a single baptism according to our 5 greek-roman literature about him one can wonder who made that up.

[@tylergraham7352]

Having lived my whole life in the Bible Belt, I'm sadly not that shocked by this. There is a LOT of cultural Christianity here. It seems like evangelical is increasingly becoming a political identity rather than a theological one. A short anecdote that I think might be reflective of a larger trend: I don't know if you heard about the trucks on the highway who harassed the Biden campaign bus (he wasn't on it, but some other democrats were) on the highway during the last election. It made a bunch of national news, but I'm guessing most folks here don't watch a whole bunch of cable news. That was done by a local organization here called the "Trump Train." They started getting together once a week and driving through town in a sort of parade formation with all their flags and stuff before that whole incident. Apparently they started to form a community they really didn't want to let go of after the election. The couple who founded the group had decided to become christians at some point during their time running the "Trump Train" and so they decided they wanted to found a church which was explicitly a "MAGA church" (their words.) I'm not here to pass any value judgment on their politics and I don't know their hearts. But I do know that brand new christians probably shouldn't found their own church and that a church who explicitly identifies with a particular brand of politics isn't a healthy thing either. When I see statistics like this, it's that group that I think about. I live outside of Austin, TX so I'm familiar with liberal churches who care more about politics than theology as well. It isn't a one sided issue. I just know I've seen so many evangelicals who get their teaching and discipleship from Fox News and politicians more than their church community.

[@goofygrandlouis6296]

hum... "But I do know that brand new christians probably shouldn't found their own church" - The Pope agrees with you !! 😆

[@rattuna4773]

I agree wholeheartedly. Christian is almost becoming a political statement more than a marker of belief. For example, Eastern Orthodoxy has attracted a decent chunk (not all, not even most, but a sizeable portion) of people who like it purely for it's adherence to tradition and what is considered in this current era "conservative" values. As someone who is deeply interested in becoming Eastern Orthodox for spiritual and personal reasons, this troubles me. I think it's important to be welcoming to all, so that they can learn the gospel and the good news. But I think we need to be wary of people coming in for the wrong reasons, and hopefully stray them towards the right direction. I think this has occurred because undeniably Christianity has much in common with the current conservative platform. Not all things, but enough that politicians have tried to entangle the two and people of this political thinking want to identify with it. When identifying as Christian comes second, or as a result of political affiliation, I think there is a problem.

[@sgabig]

Trump supporters flew flags on their vehicles during the restrictions on meeting together. in 2020. From the Trump supporters POV, they felt the Biden bus was trying to drive them off the road. I pray for all politicians regardless of their affiliation

[@Demetra719]

@@rattuna4773 What I’ve experienced in Orthodoxy is that it is regularly accused of both being “too liberal” or “too conservative”, despite the fact that it largely sees politics in general as having no place in it’s folds. What I’ve been taught in Orthodoxy is that when we see politics as the thing that will solve our problems - we ignore God.

[@maxvarjagen9810]

My church filters those people out by offering prayers to “the president and those in public service.” So even if you don’t like Joe you have to pray he does a good job anyway. Political christians have a hard time doing that.

[@eileenmurphy2019]

I worked for a Church for many years. It amazed me how little the average person in the pew knew about their faith. Once when I was working a white elephant booth someone brought some books to me and asked if it was ok for us to be selling these in our booth. Obviously the thought was it was inappropriate material for a church to have. What they were were 2 hard bound copies of the New Testament.

[@hashi856]

It's almost like there should be a formal conversion process instead of just letting anyone in who wants to join.

[@pkmcnett5649]

That is crazy! Are you sure they did not think it inappropriate to sell Bibles, maybe she thought they should be gifted? I taught Sunday School in an evangelical church (Nazarene). Senior citizens. Several were transplants from a Presbyterian Church. I was shocked at how many did NOT know basic Bible stories.

[@Lorrainecats]

Horrifying

[@eileenmurphy2019]

@@pkmcnett5649 no the person looked at me and said ‘we don’t use these, do we?’ Truly was concerned we would be offering something that was offensive. The scary part was this person physically had a hand in building the church some 40 years prior. Listened to the proclamations every Sunday but some how never made a connection between the written Word and hearing it proclaimed.

[@larrym.johnson9219]

Ignorance has a wide variety of expression in that I have no doubt! 🤔 God bless you! 🔥🤟⛪👨‍👩‍👧‍👦🇺🇸

[@ardiganm697]

As a former Atheist that encountered the Holy Spirit and was guided by that Spirit to convert to catholicism, I have encountered Cultural, and Name only Catholics. Last survey within the Church worldwide was very problematic where 71% (Memory might be off) did not believe that Christ was present in the Eucharist. Which broke my heart because that's where my conversion truly happened. Adoration. How do we fix this? I think you're already taking the right steps Matt. You're bringing attention to the problem and encouraging others to help find solutions. We have to use our gifts from The Spirit within the body of christ to promote healing and revival. I know within my own community I see the youth really being set on fire by the holy spirit and taking charge to educate the ignorant and lift up the poor. Thanks be to God!

[@goofygrandlouis6296]

But if it's true for *YOU* , then why do you care what others think ? Isn't religion supposed to be a personal journey ?

[@grossepointemichigan]

Have no fear. Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. Pray for those lukewarm Catholics who will have to face the Lord for their unbelief in this, the most central part (and reason for) the holy sacrifice of the Mass.

[@halleylujah247]

​@@goofygrandlouis6296Not Christianity, It is a community. You ascent individually and live the faith in community.

[@FiatVoluntasTuaAmen]

@@goofygrandlouis6296 Christ formed a church. We are to pray for one another and help each other get to heaven. The Sacrament of Marriage is all about supporting your spouse in getting to heaven for example

[@reverendcoffinsotherson5807]

Cultural Catholics are a pity. They need lots of prayer. The faithful need a lot of prayer. We all need....a lot of prayer.

[@ReubenBute-ds1jx]

Thank you for dealing with definitions and being specific in your arguments.

[@ReiRei12]

Whenever I see people deny the divinity of Christ I always think about when St. Philip the Apostle asked Jesus to show them the Father, and what St. Thomas said after he saw the wounds of Jesus.

[@FrJohnBrownSJ]

As for the Catholics, I have met a number of people who say they are Catholic because of ethnicity, but identify as evangelical because, in Catholic circles, "evangelical" is thought of as Christianity-Lite. So if I am Italian, for example, and grew up seeing pictures of Mary as home decor, but I never really went to church and I think belief in Jesus' divinity is kind of over the top, I might just say my beliefs are evangelical. I'm not saying that's right at all, but it could account for the huge number of Catholics, even though practicing Catholics profess it in the creed every single Sunday.

[@reverendcoffinsotherson5807]

Sad to see, father. I was a Protestant for almost 20 years before I came to learn early church history and seen the amount of reverence Catholics have in their services and decided to be in full communion with the Catholic Church and have been since Easter Vigil 2024. I do my best to have a personal devotional time and go to Confession at least once a week, while going to Mass every Sunday. We are the remnant, the few .....dark times. Calls for a lot of prayer and boldness of the faithful.

[@letruweldonothsa2622]

Yeah that makes sense. I feel like the way that evangelical is described by the study also plays a factor -- it defines it in such a way that it basically means nothing. And there are probably more nominal Catholics than evangelicals in America because Catholic populations are more ethnic. But as for people who actively participate in their professed faith, my guess is that evangelicals (or nondenominationals) are more likely to be some form of Arian because, well... think about it.

[@MrPeach1]

We got our work to do. There are way to many Catholics on auto pilot. I myself struggle with getting complacent over long stretches of time.

[@politereminder6284]

Very enlightening comment. I'd never heard of this. Must be a subcultural definition.

[@NedJeffery]

Strange choice of terminology in that context.

[@danielhixon8209]

Right at the top of this video you offer a classic definition of “evangelical.” But the word definitely means different things to different people. Some take this to mean “cultural Christian who votes politically conservative” which is a very different animal.

[@danielhixon8209]

Could also be a consequence of evangelicals actually not reciting those ancient creeds, and not using traditional liturgy of any kind, and therefore miss out on the formative effects of traditional liturgy

[@HOSPlTALLER]

@@danielhixon8209 Bingo, Cultural Christian, Cultural Catholics - just an identity for their ethnic community.

[@DqwertyC]

When filtering by "evangelical beliefs," the survey only uses people who agreed to all 4 statements below: "The Bible is the highest authority for what I believe.", "It is very important for me personally to encourage non-Christians to trust Jesus Christ as their Savior.", "Jesus Christ’s death on the cross is the only sacrifice that could remove the penalty of my sin.", and "Only those who trust in Jesus Christ alone as their Savior receive God’s free gift of eternal salvation.".

[@TheComputerCowboy]

How can one be an Evangelical Christian while not believing Jesus Christ is God?

[@SeekTheGoodInAll]

what does evangelical even mean to you?

[@tylere.8436]

Pertaining to the gospels of the New Testament, spreading the Word​ @@SeekTheGoodInAll

[@bradleesargent]

Because some people think Protestant includes Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses

[@pkmcnett5649]

​@ccl19media80 Matt gave the definition.

[@TheComputerCowboy]

@@SeekTheGoodInAll what does “what does evangelical even mean to you?” mean to you?

[@findingshalom]

We just ran into this surprising problem in our Bible study group a few weeks ago. 3 out of the 10 people did not believe Jesus was God. It took me completely by surprise. We tried to pull out all the Bible verses that are so obvious that He is divine but they wouldn’t believe any of it. It was literally the most heartbreaking night. I would love for you to do a video. We used all these verses and passages but their eyes were closed. Please pray for our little group. God bless you for your videos. -Christa

[@pkmcnett5649]

That is surprising and sad.

[@AnHebrewChild]

In your bible study, did you get the sense that these people had simply never really been taught that Jesus is God? OR that they'd been influenced against it by internet content (you know the YT videos), or maybe univ religious studies? I just have to wonder where their _stiff resistance_ came from - when the rest of you shared with them verses on it. Like the other commenter said, this is **very sad.** The belief that the Good Shepherd Jesus is one and the same with David's Psalm 23 Shepherd is THE foundation of the faith. And if the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? Psa11:3 Be watchful, therefore, and strengthen the things which remain that are ready to die. Rev3:2a

[@findingshalom]

@@AnHebrewChild ​​⁠ It is indeed very sad 😢 They are newer Christians, later in life. One studied under the Jehovah witnesses and she was warned to watch out for us Christians, trying to sell this idea of the trinity. The others, I’m not sure. But they studied together to prove against it and brought up a lot of internet commentaries explaining it away. And at the same time I think if they just read the Bible, without any pretense, all the way through and not cherry pick it, I think they would see it clear as day. But many rely on ticktock, commentaries and pastors/leaders to tell them what the Bible says. Then it’s easy to believe anything with a few verses (out of context) to back you up. It’s my greatest passion to see believers learn how to just dig in and read and study for themselves. Unfortunately then it also breaks my heart when they don’t. 😢 I’m trying to remind myself that it is not my responsibility if they don’t follow through or see the truth. I am only responsible to do what God tells me to do, the rest is God’s responsibility. And of course the individual to be open to learning and hearing God’s voice through scriptures. Please keep our little Bible Study in your prayers. Thank you!

[@furtherformore]

Hey Matt, I appreciate you and enjoy a lot of your videos. With that said, is it fair to say your shell-shocked reaction to these results mean you are not familiar with non-Trinitarian traditions and readings of Scripture? There are many who believe the text plainly says YHWH is God who is the Father alone, and that Jesus is his human Son and Messiah, who he resurrected and seated at his right hand. I encourage you consider the Scriptures in this manner and to take a look the best literature you can find on this subject. There are historical, straightforward and sound interpretations to all the passages you raise. Many are persuaded this way because although they hear "God the Son" being taught as doctrine, they instead read "Son of God" in their Bibles and see Jesus as the Son of the living God (Mt 16:16). You cited Mt 9:1-9. Many do not conclude that Jesus must be God since he forgave sins. Rather they, along with the people in this very passage, praise God who gave this authority to the man Jesus, just like verses 6 and 9 say. You mentioned Rom 10:9-10. Many believe Jesus is not God because Scripture underscores that it was actually God who raised Jesus from dead, just like verse 9 here says. They confess him as Lord too, because after all, it was God who made Jesus to be both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36). Ultimately this is a matter of biblical Christianity (true sola scriptura) and creedal Christianity.

[@maxspringer01]

Yes! Excellent comment! If I remember correctly, there are something like 13 or 17 individual and distinct verses that say it is God who raised Jesus from the dead.

[@rh10033]

I wish the Protestant churches I've been a part of recited these creeds, but none of them ever have. I never even knew these creeds existed until I was almost 20 years into being a Christian. We need to go back to liturgal style of church service.

[@IamGrimalkin]

That athinatian creed yeah, but the other ones? I'm not American, but creeds seem pretty popular in Protestant circles here. If nothing else, there are songs based off of them.

[@calebneff5777]

They're gaining popularity, but still not as prevalent as they should be. I've never been part of a church that recites them, but I'm going to propose that to my church soon. Sadly I expect them to not accept the offer.

[@pkmcnett5649]

Ours have, but not often. Our, friend, former youth pastor, had the congregation recite creeds when he preached. (Thanks, Shane!) The creeds ARE in our hymnbook.

[@goofygrandlouis6296]

... Or you can come back to a Traditional Church, like Oriental, or Orthodox or Catholic (even Anglican)

[@patriciaryan1716]

I agree with you dear. I grew up in an liturgical church and we did recite it each Sunday. I now go to a non- Denominational church and it is sad to me how many of my peers did not wven know it existed when we did a bible study on it. I loved learning deeper, we must use it and. Go back to it. Hopes that more people will follow❤

[@davidcole407]

As a Catholic, I am particularly shocked by those results considering the mandatory catechization and the fact that we recite the Nicene Creed every single week, as well as the Apostle's Creed if/when we pray the rosary etc. This must be predominantly "cultural Catholics" or else I don't know what to say... According to the Church, if you don't affirm the Nicene Creed, you aren't even Christian, let alone Catholic.

[@gaetanemcgraw5567]

Matthew 24: 13-14 Ephesians 6: 10-17 I am a Traditional Roman Catholic.

[@tylere.8436]

Protestants protested the Church so much, they abandoned even the core beliefs. Almost like Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide failed and there needs to be an authoritative interpretation of the Bible for one holy apostolic church to even exist. Obviously not all Protestants fell off to such a degree, but the worrying spectrum of faith within is troubling because this will further and further complicate uniting the Church. We need to reaffirm the Nicene Creed, and those that refuse sadly are heretical.

[@landocalrissian5180]

Evangelicals don’t recite the creed, nor do they believe in the legitimate authority of the church. They are their own gods.

[@maxvarjagen9810]

The nicene creed as most catholics hear it: I believe in one God: the father, creator of earth, of all things seen and unseen Blah blah blah blah blah Amen

[@davidcole407]

​@@landocalrissian5180 Remember the qualifications of an Evangelical that were established in the video at 1:18 . By those four standards, nearly every practicing Christian would be considered Evangelical. That is how you can even say something like "an Evangelical Catholic".

[@ShrexyGuy]

If Jesus isn't God; the ocean must not be blue. Evangelicals, GET YA STUFF TOGETHER!!

[@MattWhitmanTMBH]

In fairness, no one looks particularly good in this survey.

[@jamescannon7267]

The oceans are not blue are clear they reflect the sky which is not blue either but clear, how does that work ??

[@ttaibe]

idk where you live, but where I live the ocean is not blue.. ergo.. Jesus is still God though

[@shirleygoss1988]

If Jesus is not God , we ARE still in our sins with no possibility of redemption! Serious stuff indeed!

[@zap0918]

You cannot make a claim to be a Christian and reject Christ Jesus as God. It is that simple. There is zero neutrality with that. John says that those that reject the Christ are damned already. Surveys mean absolutely nothing except that the mission field is bigger than we possible could imagine.

[@mattofe]

It seems like this almost has to be an issue with people not understanding the question completely, since 97% of those categorized as evangelicals agreed (somewhat or strongly) with statement #2 "There is one true God in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit."

[@TorianTammas]

@mattofe - No one understands it, people just repeat it.

[@seg162]

You can't sum up the "somewhat"s and "strongly"s together. A "somewhat agree" is still in line with Arianism and/or Pneumatomachianism-- the Son and Holy Spirit are either God or they are not.

[@hastyscorpion]

@@seg162you also can’t equate someone quickly clicking through a survey and sitting down with them to find out what they really believe.

[@AncientNovelist]

Matt, I am not surprised--and I say this from personal experience with Evangelicals. I am decidedly NOT a Fundamentalist or Evangelical but also most decidedly confess Jesus of Nazareth as my Savior, as the Christ, as our God. Personal experience? Evangelicals--or at least those of my acquaintance--don't know the first thing about the Bible, God, or anything they profess to believe. I frequently attended Evangelical prayer meetings in my youth. One of my family members left the ELCA and became "born again." She sold her soul to Kenneth Copeland. I recall countless errors being spouted by the ill-informed prayer group leaders at every single meeting. On one particular occasion, as the prayer leader led us through the passion account in Matthew, she informed us that, when Jesus said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Jesus at that very moment was separated from God. I went up to her afterwards and told her that, with all due respect, she was wrong. Jesus was never out of communion with God the Father. For many years I wondered how Evangelicals could profess a theology so riddled with error. About 20 years ago I finally realized it's probably due to the a-la-carte nature of conservative Protestantism. There is no teaching authority, and therefore conservatives who believe they're Christians can believe whatever they want, and that's fine (fine with them, in their misguided hearts). There's no liturgy, pastors go on and on endlessly in their non-scriptural sermons that take up most of the "worship" service, quoting scripture in their a-la-carte manner, carving for themselves gods that fit well the image and likeness of their gold rings and perfectly-pressed, immaculate custom-tailored suits and shiny silk ties. Matt, there are far, far greater problems in your end of Christianity than rampant heresy, as Pastor Loran Livingston pointed out in his sermon on April 14, 2024, just two weeks ago. Most of the people who call themselves Evangelicals support authoritarian candidates for political office. This goes beyond heresy. Frankly, you are among the few conservatives who seem to have a Christian heart, so I watch your videos. But most of the people you rub shoulders with...maybe God will forgive them. I cannot. Neither do I condemn them. But I no longer consider them to be followers of Jesus of Nazareth. They're idolaters. So I pray for them. I pray God will forgive them. Sadly, as I go about writing my commentary on Genesis, I now find two conservative Biblical scholars who have publicly endorsed their party's candidate for the presidency. I had included a few quotes from their journal publications and now I must remove those quotes. One does not use material from heretics or those who would hand over their neighbors to be imprisoned or murdered. Matt, if you wish to remain relevant, at some point you're going to have to work up the courage that Pastor Livingston showed. You will have to denounce your party's candidate for the presidency. Until you do so, I'll be praying for you, too. Pax. PM 2024

[@emerybayblues]

Are you okay? Did somebody hurt your feelings?

[@jwilsonhandmadeknives2760]

It is up to priests and pastors to spell things out in basic, sesame street terms sometimes. The Catholic Church has catechism classes for a reason, and people still miss ultra basic stuff. I grew up Baptist, and never once heard a pastor plainly say "Jesus is God" or explain the trinity as "One God, in three Persons". Every christian needs a line by line exposition of the Nicene Creed. That was the entire point of establishing the creed- to clearly explain the basic fundamentals of what it means to be a christian.

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

John 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, "I am going away and I am coming back to you." If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am."

[@dj393]

Before I even became Orthodox after a lifetime of being evangelical Pentecostal, I found out about and read the Didache, and the Orthodox version of the Nicene Creed was printed out and on my refrigerator. I knew something was missing in the non-denominational churches I had been attending.

[@abaker4692]

I grew up Baptist and heard it all the time.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

"Every christian needs a line by line exposition of the Nicene Creed" Good luck with that. Its incomprehensibility I think is supposed to be a feature.

[@PatrickMoto97]

Lutheran here. Lutherans are catechized at least by the Apostle's creed but every week we recite either the apostles or nicene. I think it is far far better than the Baptist or nondenom attitude of not delving into these matters on a sunday. Justification matters to me. The doctrine. But it is more dangerous to worship the wrong God than to have justification confused.

[@stormythelowcountrykitty7147]

“Jesus is a great teacher but not God” sounds like something a liberal rabbi might say. This is a very weird survey.

[@bedeodempsey5007]

Well, they are the children of the devil, as Jesus told us in John 8:44. It's why Pedowood movies hate Christ. They own all of the studios.

[@Bathoggywinger]

Trinitarianism is not the in the New Testament, nor does Christ ever call himself God. When people cite John 1:1, it is telling that they didn't even even bother to read the entire 21 chapters of John, where Christ expands on the meaning of the Word of God, which is something that people require to be followers.

[@jbmgibsonsc]

This survey is not in isolation. The US Catholic Church did a recent survey and the majority of US Catholics don't believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist - Transubstantiation. So now the US Bishops are on a major education campaign to educate Catholics on this core belief.

[@d_dave7200]

I mean, that seems like a pretty marginal belief compared to Jesus being God. I'm no where near as surprised by that survey result. Having attended many Catholic masses with my wife, I feel like you could attend mass regularly and not even remember that it's what Catholics believe. Never mind the people who choose to disagree but still be Catholic anyway.

[@tylerwgates]

That's not as severe as rejecting the Divinity of Christ. It also wasn't the Church but the Pew Researsh Center that had the survey. Among weekly Mass attenders a majority do believe in the true presence. Also, the survey had an answer saying that the Eucharist is a symbol of the Body and Blood of Jesus. Which isn't wrong it is just incomplete because the Sacraments are efficatious signs, meaning they are symbols that make actual what they signify.

[@KamalasFakePolls]

Because it's obviously not turning into blood and flesh when they eat it.

[@grossepointemichigan]

​@@KamalasFakePollsOnly happens when the priest consecrates the host. Then it is indeed the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, as He Himself stated again and again in the Scriptures. "If you do not eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life within you." Amen, Lord Jesus!

[@tylere.8436]

​@@KamalasFakePollsJesus obviously didn't turn water into wine, right? Was that case metaphorical? Sounds like a slight of hand to bring that up, but how can we selectively believe things without being contradicting? I believe both of those things.

[@DunateoRom8v37]

Just listened to the 2:28 marker. The rebudle that one gets on the is that Lord small letters are not LORD or God, but that Jesus is merely a god and not God. You need to step one back even further. Need to establish the Shema (monotheistic Jewish view) to set the context in which Jesus said that I and the farther are one and the ROM 10 you mentioned

[@boxofturtles761]

non christian here but i’m slightly confused at 8:12. how does forgiving sins prove that jesus is god? the apostles forgave sins, but you don’t claim them to be god

[@georgiannearnot5454]

Many get confused on title Son of God. Thinking Jesus is God's son not equal part of the Trinity.

[@georgiannearnot5454]

Met people who like, believe in Jesus but don't like God☹️🤔

[@slottibarfast5402]

The begotten son Jesus said I of my own self can do nothing but through the father that sent me. You know very early Christian sects held a variety of beliefs about Jesus. Jesus just a man, Jesus the son of God, God pretending to be a man and about half a dozen other beliefs on the nature of Christ. It was only when the Romans made Christianity the state religion with absolute power to brand all the other flavors of Christianity as heretical and started torturing and killing those that did not believe in their version of the trinity that today's view of the trinity became standard. Even now there are Christians that do not believe in the Trinity, calling it polytheistic. Jesus, all man and all God. How does that work?

[@SueiWaa]

’Jesus, all man, all God’: my personal conclusion is that this manifestation / experience / epiphany of Jesus being both all human and all God is the absolute core of Christianity, but it’s not actually possible to case it inside a theology or creed. It’s instead a profound mystery that, when willingly exposed to it, will utterly change you and the world and the way you live in this world.

[@XKathXgames]

I have discovered recently that just the concept of the Trinity is not understood by many.

[@Bathoggywinger]

@@XKathXgames Its always been that way historically. Trinitarianism is a philosophy, a man made dogma that has no basis in scripture, but it does have one in almost all pagan religions. In Bible you can find descriptors of the Spirit of God himself in the OT by Moses(Exodus 33:19-23), the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah who saw the throne of the Father(God), and one in the NT in Revelations 4(again God on his throne), versus the Spirit of Christ in Revelations 1:13-17, they are completely different Spirits. A man in the flesh can see the Son of Man and live, but God? Surely he would die as was told to Moses. In Rome prior to Constantine, those pagan's had the truine of Jupiter/Juno/Minerva, they also had temples of the trinity called the Capitolium.

[@IamGrimalkin]

Look at statement 2 in the same survey. The contrasting response to this does indicate that a very large portion of this discrepency may be explained by the respondants not understaning the question.

[@marmeemarch7080]

Ahhh. . .

[@XKathXgames]

I really hope that's the reason.

[@IamGrimalkin]

@@XKathXgames It's certainly *a* reason. Statement 2 says: "There is one true God in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit." Going by church affiliation, only 4% of evangelicals disagreed with this; going by beliefs only 2% did. Obviously this contradicts the idea that Jesus is not God, so either respondants read this question wrong or they read the other question wrong.

[@Swrdfshtrmbns]

@@IamGrimalkinI think most people recite the trinity or the creed but don’t understand it. If you ask them in isolation if Jesus is God, many will say no.

[@simontemplar3359]

This shook me. I fear that in the US, the word "Evangelical" is more of a political voting bloc rather than a coherent theological group. It breaks my heart. Regardless of which side of the aisle one is on, I very much admire Pastor Loran Livingston's position on politics in the church. I've been LCMS since the Will Weedon videos- no joke (and thank you). I think that we have a massive problem where folks are cultural Christians but they don't read/don't understand scripture properly. That can be fixed. I can say this: in the US, the label has taken on a non-theological meaning. I'm not trying to start a debate on the topic, but when you look at positions that are put forth by the hard-edged political evangelicals, they are so unchristian, so unmerciful, and in some cases outright cruel that it cannot possibly come from Christianity. Christianity is neither left nor right. It's beyond all that. Sadly, in my travels, I find people saying "I'm a Christian," and then spouting off some massive unchristian hate. Beyond that, how many times can we be subjected to the Bart Ehrman Christmas and Easter lie fest before people start saying (as I once did before leaving Christianity for Islam) "well Jesus is all right, but walking on water? Come on. Rising from the dead? Come on." And we know from St. Paul that the message of the cross is foolishness to those who don't believe, but to us being saved, it is truly everything.

[@yeahnothx-e9l]

I agree with your take on this!

[@emerybayblues]

Another Evangelical is political bot.

[@lizzard13666]

Good for them! They must have read their Bibles. That Romans 10:8-9 reference you read out at 2:10 is clearly stating a Unitarian position!

[@benkindberg5992]

One explanation is that the trinity is a complicated and obscure topic. The deep study and analysis it takes to get a decent understanding of the trinity is a lot of work for churches struggling to maintain attendance. What makes sense as a topic to preach about when your church is losing members, what the Bible has to say about a hot button issue or what churches have to say about this complicated theological topic that’s really philosophical and difficult to articulate?

[@tybutton1957]

I regularly teach Sunday School and have since about 2021. I also teach a weekly bible study for some of the attendees of my church (we are going chronologically through Jesus Ministry). I remember seeing this study shortly after it came out, and feeling an incredible amount of sadness and hopelessness. What can we do to combat these numbers? I struggled, I prayed, I studied. And fundamentally, I decided that all I can do is make sure everyone who comes through my classes, visits my bible study, or talks with me about theology is given the opportunity to ask questions about this, and knows the creeds, at least in passing familiarity. This study hurts, on a spiritual level, and I feel that it should drive those of us who believe and affirm the classic Creeds to really try to help guide and steer our fellow Christians towards what theology and Christianity really truly mean.

[@maxvarjagen9810]

Dont worry. For me, Jesus was a great teacher was a stepping stone towards true belief. Theres a lot of people finding their way back that way

[@KimtheElder]

Keep doing the good work.

[@sanskritprayers]

Matt, I have been a Christian longer than most Christians have been alive. I have walked with Jesus a very long time, I know Him, and He knows me, and there's a lot of love there. So, I am coming at things related to Christianity, even to my life as a whole from this state of being. I am not a perfect man, that's painfully obvious, but it's all about Jesus, for me, and I trust in His grace and in Him to help me figure things out. So there's a lot to say about Christianity but when it comes to the subject of your video today, we are suddenly talking about the very core of it. I believe Christ is both man and God and is God the Son in the Trinity. I believe God is both One and Three and I don't need to be able to understand how these things may be. It's not my place to question Him as He is revealed in Scripture, but for Him to reveal Himself to us as He wills. That some Christians may question the nature of Christ isn't new (see the Church Councils of the first centuries in the life of the Church), but for large numbers of Evangelicals in particular to deny the Divinity of Christ in this day and age is shocking. I think it may be connected to something - I am going to say something here that is very likely to offend some Evangelicals, but how might we hope to address a problem without identifying it first? So here it is: I have been observing an evolution of personal pridefulness steadily growing in *some* Evangelicals, and in a fraction of those, its become a very serious problem because they don't appear to have insight about it, or they feel entitled to their pride and then there are those among them who hold themselves forward as being possessed of greater grace, insight and *authority* denied to others. That entitlement to *authority* in particular is genuinely frightening and the attitude structure as a whole, as I have outlined it, is not going unnoticed by non-Christians. How can I blame non-Christians for being wary of Christianity when such a posture is visibly before them in the public square and even sometimes in one on one interactions, without any apparent correction by other Christians? I find myself wondering whether they might largely be the Evangelicals who reject Christ's Divinity who are also the ones I have just described. Its heart breaking, this stuff. I am aware that some may say to me judge not, or where might my love be, or otherwise criticise me for writing about my observations or sense of things, but there is also this principle of rebuke when its necessary. It is beyond me to figure out a way to get these things across without offending some, so if you are reading this and are deeply offended, feel free to verbally beat me up but please take a moment in private with Jesus to consider whether I may have some useful points to offer you. Whatever other Christians may do, I am staying where I am with Jesus and I will continue to believe him to be God the Son. Flawed man that I am, I will also continue to trust him to keep that which I have committed to Him against whatever may come. When I think of him dying on the cross knowing what is yet to come and remain willing to give himself for us, all I can feel is gratitude, reflexive love, respect and things for which there are no words. I'm not going anywhere except forward into whatever it may be that he has in store for me.

[@RohannvanRensburg]

You're not off about this whatsoever, and if anyone is offended by this they desperately need humility. Pride is considered the "cardinal sin" for a reason, and the rejection of any and all forms of authority and, most importantly, of Reason in modern politics is precisely the precursor to this kind of closed-minded, immature, intellectually flaccid idea of propping oneself up as a lone authority. It's nothing more than trendy politics entering the church, and it is pure arrogance to believe yourself and perhaps some random "deconstructionist" instagram influencer (with zero qualifications, in most cases) such authorities on Christian doctrine that you not only reject what has been fundamental doctrine for thousands of years, but refuse to evaluate your own beliefs and ideas through reason, historical comparison and genuine, humble submission to the Holy Spirit. The irony of this is the end result of a doctrine so poorly reasoned as to be defeatable by even inch-deep examination.

[@reverendcoffinsotherson5807]

You weren't wrong. Bravo. Let's continue to pray for the faithful, that boldness and truth follows them always.

[@sanskritprayers]

@@reverendcoffinsotherson5807 thank you and may God hold you ever in his loving embrace

[@GabrielMillen]

Investigating the stats yourself will reveal some interesting things. For example Evangelical respondents actually had the best ratio on this question. There was also a question (I believe it was statement number 2) it was a trinitarian statement and the Vast majority agreed. Some of the stats for these statements seemed highly incongruent.

[@sanskritprayers]

@@GabrielMillen I will check that out, thank you

[@failsafelivearcade4022]

In so many circles of Evangelicalism, the word 'Disciple' is seen as a verb. It is seen as something to do, rather than the new primary component of one's identity. I wrestle often with how do we move this concept forward in a way of proactive personal growth and not just a class we sit in one hour a week....if that....

[@failsafelivearcade4022]

I have thoroughly enjoyed all of your visits with church leaders from various denominations over the years. And I absolutely do not doubt you when you say that in all of these conversations, you find that the claim of Christ's Divinity does not seem to be in question. But in all sincerity, I am curious how many of these church visits involve conversations with the average church goer of that particular church? It makes sense that the leaders of each of these churches would hold to these beliefs, they have devoted their lives (vocationally at the very least) to Christ. How well these truths filter down to the average person's belief matrix is such a complex issue. All of us have layers of distraction and vice that compete to keep our view of Christ. I find equaling troubling the finding that 65% of Evangelicals believe that each of us are born in a state of innocence. I believe that many of absolutely bonkers scenarios we see playing out all over the world in this present age can be distilled down into this one simple question: Is man inherently good and sometimes does evil, or is man inherently evil and can only do good by the grace of God?

[@JBB685]

I’d be interested to see the question worded differently. I have some hunches. 15:25 I agree, I can see how if you weren’t paying attention you could miss the question.

[@soonemd]

Hey Matt..forgive me.. unrelated. Just finished warching the episodes you did on the coptic church.. this coming Friday is Good Friday for the coptic church. If you have never attended, it is a whole new experience. Starts from 8AM to 6PM.. hour by hour, you live what happened that day to Jesus..

[@archmdc370]

"Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8b). I used to struggle with thsi verse years ago...but now it makes perfect sense. All Christians have been led astray. It has only gotten worse since the churches were shut down and many people did not return over the last 4 years (catholic, protestant, and orthodox). As low as 20% of catholics are attending Mass regularly and 70 to 80% of all Catholics do not recognize/understand/believe in the true presence of the Eucharist (which is the re-presentation of one holy and eternal sacrifice of Christ on Calvary) offered to the Father on the Altar. I do not know what the numbers look like in the Orthodox Church but this is sad that so many Christians across the board are missing out on the Grace our Lord desires us to have as branches grafted in the Vine and Olive Tree. We will be replaced if we do not hold to His Commands.

[@bbrainstormer2036]

By "true presence" do you mean transubstantiation or the broad idea that the body and blood are in the wine and bread?

[@bbrainstormer2036]

Also, yikes. That's bad

[@archmdc370]

@@bbrainstormer2036 Transubstantiation (with the philosophical accidents of bread and wine remaining in appearance only).

[@d_dave7200]

What was the sample size and how was it selected? They're saying when you drill down that it isn't always statistically significant, but maybe the total sample is marginally significant in the first place, which would open it up to more issues if the sample wasn't random or there are other issues with the survey. Which is my other supposition. How are they finding these people? People identify as things they're not. If you're not actually regularly attending church and haven't since you're a kid, how you identify is kind of irrelevant at a certain point. These days it's become political and identity driven thing not just belief. There are certainly cultural Christians.

[@d_dave7200]

I just noticed that the question "Worshipping alone or with one's family is a valid replacement for [church]" and the answer is only 24% disagree. So I very much suspect that a large portion of those surveyed don't attend church or at least not regularly.

[@IamGrimalkin]

Church attendance cannot solve this issue because you can filter by degree of church attendance and see the same effect. A large portion of this is probably due to how the question is worded, as demonstrated by the stark difference when you look at statement 2 in the same survey.

[@d_dave7200]

@@IamGrimalkin Yeah, actually now I think about it: How many times have I rushed through a survey because I'm busy and don't entirely want to do it? Would be very easy for people to only half-read the statement.

[@IamGrimalkin]

@@d_dave7200 To be clear, I'm not speculating, I'm going by the data. Statement 2 in the same survey reads: "There is one true God in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit." Going by beliefs, only 2% of evangelicals disagree, going by affialation, only 4%. Obviously this contradicts the idea that Jesus is not God so the respondents either read statement 2 wrong or read the question topic of this video wrong. If you filter by other denominations you get similar results.

[@RaceSheetsDFS]

Two things; 1) Rationalism keeps sinking in its teeth into the fundamentals of the faith, and 2) Moral Therapeutic Deism is how the bulk of "believers" operate their spiritual life, as Jellyroll said, "I only talk to God when I need a favor".

[@Jimmy-iy9pl]

1) Rationalism isn't the problem here. Sinful people are the problem. And, if anything, a little bit more rationalism would solve a lot of problems in the church. 2) Again, MTD is just one of many errant views of God that are promulgated in the culture. You can't blame all of our culture's problems on an -ism because no one ideology is that strong. It's also taking away responsibility from the real source of the problem: people. Christians often outperform our secular counterparts in the worst ways possible when it comes to how we prioritize things in life and manage our time.

[@simoneidson21]

Rationalism is not the problem, Evangelicals explicitly hate rationalism and science. Why do you think most of them don't believe in climate change and think the Earth is 6000 years old?

[@charless7653]

@@Jimmy-iy9pl It's fair to adduce rationalism as a cause of this phenomenon. It seems that people who I know personally who deny Jesus' divinity root their beliefs in some form of "Jesus being both God and man makes no sense, and since it makes no sense, it cannot be true."

[@Jimmy-iy9pl]

@charless7653 That's not rationalism, that's the product of bad standards when it comes to thinking. If something doesn't make sense to someone, it's actually irrational to conclude from first appearances that something is wrong. There are a lot of things that don't make sense at first glance, but it's the mark of an educated mind to explore the nature of things before passing judgment on them.

[@charless7653]

@@Jimmy-iy9pl Per Merriam Webster, rationalism is, "reliance on reason as the basis for establishment of religious truth." Thus, if something does not make sense (i.e., is not congenial with human reason), then rationalists are bound to say that it cannot be true, as reason is the basis for establishing truth. Rationalism is why modern liberal criticism runs rampant with error. You seem to assume that people who deny Jesus' divinity do not do so by rationalism because they have not thought out the issue. I contend that they have thought out the issue fully and cannot relate it congenially with their reason, and thus disbelieve it. That is the definition of rationalism.

[@jonathananstett784]

I think we likely have the opposite problem to that discussed around 18:00. In very specific contexts I have experienced that kind of "youre not an authority" argument, usually with people who are involved in scholarly research in some way (eg university education). Far more often I see the Dunning-Kruger effect: the problem is that so many people think they are qualified enough to reject teaching from experts. "Yeah, the Nicene Creed is reasonable, but I did my own thinking on this and I disagree." It is the rejection of authority that this kind of wrong belief comes from. Or rather, the belief that expertise is irrelevant. By authority here, I mean the early Christian creeds and teachers who are in alignment. I dont mean that people should just trust "authority" in the abstract, conservative/traditionalist sense. But on certain topics, the early church (the apostles and their church communities) helped clarify what the New Testament writings mean. A higher regard for the shared teaching of the great tradition in place of a "perspecuity of scripture/me and my Bible" mentality would be helpful and unifying.

[@ThatsMyChad]

I remember vividly when I went to a non-denom-ish AG church I once asked if Jesus is God, after reading the Bible and having it seem like it, and none of the pastors could tell me straight. To this day I still cannot believe that these people were like this. One of them had a masters in theology and the other a doctorate??

[@MrSeedi76]

That's shocking. How can someone have a master's degree in theology and not know the most basic stuff about his faith?

[@Gudnews4all]

Along with the general biblical and theological illiteracy among Evangelical Christians in america, I have no doubt that a portion of this finding can be chalked up to the way the questions were phrased. Plenty of questions on surveys are less than clear, especially when it comes to questions about theology.

[@Tobarius]

That's true, but also how a lot of surveys work. It's meant to get around bias. If you asked an evangelical, "Do you believe in the Trinity," they would probably say "yes" even if they _just_ said that they believe Jesus was a great teacher and not God. There's a good chance they heard "Trinity" in their church and know it's something they _should_ believe but may not actually _understand_ what it means. The survey is trying to answer the question, what do people _actually_ know and what do they _actually_ believe?

[@Jerome616]

As a Catholic I can sympathize.

[@RodMartinJr]

And yet the Catholic church became derailed in the 4th century, murdering those who did not adhere to their doctrine, burning their books and eventually teaching scripture in a language most of their flock did not understand. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯

[@FalconsWarrior]

too many dusty unopened bibles, that’s how

[@alsmith5031]

Took the early church a good couple of hundred years to agree on this, so not necessarily. It could be heresy from collective misinterpretation rather than lack of engagement.

[@doppelganger8252]

Can remember who said it but it was said there is dust enough on your bibles to write damnation with a finger.

[@archmdc370]

It goes beyond that.... It's bad leadership (bad pastors/priests), which is also a chastisement based on the hearts of the people. There are many good pastors/priests out there but there are a large number of bad ones not preaching the Truth as they ought to be The Father is waiting for His prodigal children to return to Him. Those who have fallen away have to choose to return to grace and mercy. It's not just dusty unopened Bibles. It is the will and heart of the person. Until we see choose to let God in and see what He truly is, no amount of printing on paper is going to make a difference. That's not a blaspheme it is simply the truth. Remember, the Bible we know today was written down after being passed on through oral tradition. It often takes hearing the Gospel from a Christian on fire with the love of the Holy Spirit to reach the heart of the person. We need to go back to the basics. We also need to ask the Holy Spirit to fill our vessels with the charisms and gifts He wants us to have so that we may do His will to reach as many people before it is too late.

[@BGID7]

​@@doppelganger8252 Charles Spurgeon

[@tc2334]

Imagine that. Catholics and the Orthodox generally don’t read or know the Bible beyond the same repeated stories in the way even the average Baptist, but they 100% believe Jesus is God.

[@susansmith5299]

My son recommended your podcast and when I did, I realized I had seen your visit to a Catholic Church on KZbin. I am a convert to Catholicism and really appreciate your ecumenical approach.

[@brooksey097]

Matt, I am a huge fan of your content, it's thoughtful delivery, and your general philosophies on many topics. Please do not simplify your message. Long-form, thoughtful, challenging, and mind-expanding content is EXACTLY what many non-believers need to hear. In this day-and-age I believe a simplified Christian message will fall on deaf ears, and, if I understand your motives correctly, could be counterproductive. Yes, a simpler series on foundational Christian beliefs would be GREAT, but I think your deep, theological, and relatable content should not be simplified broadly. Your deep-dives have the best chance to provide true understanding and ultimately change hearts and minds.

[@chaplainjameswhite]

thank you for posting this, it's shocking.

[@joachim847]

The foundational dogma of Christianity is not the doctrine of the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the two natures of the Son. It's not the authority of the bible. It's not the virgin birth, or faith in Christ, or even the cross. The cross is getting closer, but it is NOT the foundational dogma of Christianity. And the cross is blesphemously misunderstood without the proper foundation in place. There's only one dogma that can be the foundation, and the cross is not it. When people try to make the cross be the foundation of the faith... God is mocked. The Father becomes the villain of the story, from whose petulant wrath we must be saved. With the proper foundation in place, everything else comes together. Without it, nothing matters. The foundational dogma of Christianity is the Resurrection of Christ. It is the topic of every sermon preached by an apostle in the book of Acts. It shows the cross to be the tree of life, the throne of God, and the victory of the King of Glory. As for the bible and all the rest... nobody would care AT ALL about any of that other stuff if Jesus had stayed in the grave. Embarrased lip-service once a year on Easter, IF YOUR LUCKY, is not enough. Preach the Resurrection every Sunday and let's see what happens.

[@acekoala457]

"O Come let us Worship and Fall down before Christ"

[@joachim847]

@@acekoala457 Christ Himself, our King and our God ☦

[@j.dieason7527]

That’s because 43% don’t read scripture. Again faith comes through hearing the message/ word

[@goofygrandlouis6296]

Tough... for a Protestant ! 🤭

[@tylere.8436]

And even if they do, they are likely missing the Deuterocanon "apocryphal" books; especially Wisdom.

[@FiatVoluntasTuaAmen]

​ @tylere.8436 Yeh true and also they are free to interpret scripture any way they like - just like Adam and Eve in the garden!

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

John 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, "I am going away and I am coming back to you." If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am."

[@dondangler2458]

Talk to a unitarian about what the bible says. They have no trouble being bible christians and denying Christ’s divinity

[@mchisolm0]

Thank you for sharing, brother. It is definitely concerning. I would be interested to know if they answer that in an anonymous survey and do not feel they have space to talk about that openly. I know some of my largest strides of growth came from fellow Christians making it clear I was okay to work through questions like that. Regardless, it is definitely a symptom of the something deeper. We should definitely be prayerful, curious, and active in seeking and healing whatever is wrong. Much love and respect, Matt. Thank you, again.

[@reepicheepsfriend]

I agree with you that this is quite shocking and perplexing. The only answer is prayer. Lately I started attending a small fellowship group. I noticed right away that it had some serious problems. One, the members were lamenting about how boring and difficult it was to read the Bible. Two, the men in the group were completely disengaged, and all the spiritual discussions were done by the women. I felt very depressed by this, but I sensed that God had put me with this group, so I started praying for them. Only a few weeks later, they decided to resume a Bible reading plan that had been previously abandoned, and a few weeks after that, we had our first real discussion with both men and women engaging. By the way I did not say anything to try to convince them to change. I said nothing and prayed!! God did it. God can revive us, let's continue to pray for that!!

[@Donk3y-K0ng]

I'm sorry to say but, I'm really not surprised. My wife and I in our own journey through and eventually out of evangelicalism showed us just how divided American Christianity is. When people are left to their own devices and left to interpret the holy scripture as they see fit , according to their denomational background/theological school, errors are sure to abound. Having the right theology and correct belief is so much more than just a difference in opinion; the Bible has to be interpreted hence, some are interpreting it and walking away with a wrong belief about Christ and who He is. And if you disagree with me? I just go to another Church down the road. The Bible is sacred but it alone does not interpret itself for you, hence you must have an interpretive body - namely, the Church.

[@thiebaudsmiff5572]

I partially agree, but what makes say a Catholic Church better at interpreting it than a Protestant church that confesses the Nicean Creed.

[@catholicguy1073]

@@thiebaudsmiff5572because it is the Church Christ began and the spreading of the faith by the Apostles.

[@catholicguy1073]

💯

[@toddbu-WK7L]

​@@thiebaudsmiff5572 Exactly. One of my biggest frustrations with the Church is that nearly every denomination + Catholics + Orthodox will ALL claim authority to interpret Scripture, yet when you look at how they function and the rules that they make up then you often see very different things. Few churches these days really believe that Christ is preeminent in all things (1 Col 15-20) and that Jesus is the Head of the Church. If they did, they'd stop all of this rule-making nonsense and focus on the Messiah as God.

[@Donk3y-K0ng]

@@thiebaudsmiff5572 I wouldn't make my argument for the Catholic Church, my wife and I are Orthodox now. As for a protestant confessing the Nicene Creed, great! Glory to God ! But how does that fit with Sola Scriptura?? The Nicene Creed comes out of the tradition of the Church. If the Bible alone is the ultimate authority how is it for a protestant that the Nicene Creed can bind your conscience ? If you're going to adhere to this formulation of Christology you ought to be consistent. Arius had access to the scriptures, and yet he walked away with a subordinationist kind of view of the Son in relation to the Father. We don't think he is correct, yet he would also appeal to the scriptures in making his case. Same thing with a Jehovah's Witness. We can spend all day arguing what each individual chapter and verse means; ultimately, the matrix by which we interpret Holy Scripture is what is in question. We all agree that the Bible has to be interpreted, so the question then becomes who shall interpret it? For the reformers the authority to interpret is taken from the ecclesia of the Church and now it is the privilege of academics and scholars to interpret, hence all the sitting in a protestant church vs standing attentively in a liturgical form of worship. (Catholic, Orthodox..) It's almost like sitting through a college lecture, but this is the end result of higher criticism which the reformers invited onto the Church and her teachings. Again, not that the Catholics had it all right, they have many problems too. I would recommend reading Michael C. Legaspi's book, "The Death of Scripture and the Rise of Biblical Studies" as well as Fr. Josiah Trenham's "Rock and Sand" for a more comprehensive analysis of how protestantism has ended up in this no mans land of theological relativism.

[@blueskyfanclub]

Thank you for talking about this…it’s the one thing you MUST know

[@DanielSpiegel]

I do believe "Evangelical" is becoming more of a cultural identity that was given to conservatives and now more political conservatives are self-identifying as "Evangelicals".

[@emerybayblues]

Another Evangelical is political bot.

[@mikebrown9850]

What percentage of Christians think December 25 is Jesus’ birthday? Or that from Friday sunset to Sunday morning equals three days and three nights?

[@chriscalhoun380]

I think the point about the question format is a huge factor. They should simply ask “is Jesus God?”, if they’re trying to gauge what average lay christians believe.

[@sherifhanna]

Matt: you've been to many Orthodox churches. The idea that Christ is God is embedded in the liturgy, in the hymns, in the prayers, in the reciting of the Nicean creed, in even the way thst Christ is referred to in sermons and in everyday conversations. The evangelical churches in America lack literally ALL of this. Now do you see the danger of disconnecting oneself from the historical living tradition of the faith? Contrast this travisty with "God became man that man may become God", an oft-repeated mantra from St. Athanasius that the Orthodox use to summarize the good news of the Gospel. And within the first 4 minutes of the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the attendee hears and responds to "let us commend ourselves and one another, and our whole lives to CHRIST OUR GOD".

[@FirstnameLastname-sw1ry]

I watched the video where he goes to an Orthodox shrine and reviews the Nicene creed on the wall and says they (Protestants) believe the exact same thing; exact same God. Spoilers, we don't.

[@Cataphract3]

If you think nominalism only impacts Protestants, you're wrong. Also knock it off with the heavy handed preachiness. Online orthodox posters turned so many off from the religion.

[@sherifhanna]

@@Cataphract3 My intention was not to be heavy handed or to be one of the OrthoBros. I am just pointing out how the ethos of liturgy and the inheritance of the fathers encoded into hymns, creeds, and spoken words acts powerfully to avoid this situation that the Evangelical church finds itself in.

[@DustyBooks2020]

YESSS!!! I’m in the process of converting and my only regret is that I didn’t find it sooner. It’s so fascinating to see how the theology developed and changed over time in the western churches.

[@MrSeedi76]

​@@sherifhannaquite obviously this awesome eastern orthodox tradition didn't prevent the Russian orthodox church from becoming completely corrupted by the lust for power under Putin. Just the same as evangelicals under Trump.

[@Gstrugglin]

With no authority but themselves and their own interpretation of scripture to appeal to, it is inevitable. Remember, even the concept of the Trinity, although it can be exegeted from Scripture, is still a tradition.

[@Swrdfshtrmbns]

In the study, more than 50% of Catholics don’t think Jesus is God. In the USA, 71% don’t believe in the Eucharist (different study). Tradition doesn’t work on its own.

[@MiscMitz]

This is sad. Falling Away?

[@JudeOne3Four]

Study the *enhypostasis and anhypostasis* and tell me if the trinity doctrine is not of the Devil.

[@jonathanjensen189]

It's because they read the Bible as-is, where he's plainly presented as a man with a birth, a death, and a necessary resurrection to live forever. They are not seeing his likeness to God as him literally being God (and he isn't)

[@PatrickMoto97]

“In the beginning was the Word (Logos) and the Word was with God. And the Word was God…..and the Word became flesh.”

[@francescocantoni5665]

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that a lot of people who answered the survey were like that one classmate of mine who got excited when "the davinci's code" was released because, according to him, it explained "the things of the Bible".

[@ngcebomhlongo4950]

We don't say the creeds out loud anymore. We don't really know what we believe about God. We just believe in God.

[@joshuatrott193]

Parrish I attend does say the creeds out loud every service

[@HOSPlTALLER]

We read the Nicene and Apostles Creed, find a different Church that actually keeps the faith.

[@dj393]

In my Orthodox ☦️ parish we say the creed all the time. Our daily prayers include the Nicene Creed. It's the first thing I memorized when I converted at age 68.

[@wuzzlebottom]

Their lamps are empty. Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" appears in the King James Version of the Bible, Matthew 1:23.

[@gobokinje9183]

I had to cut ties with my biological sister at one point over this very issue. She wished to claim that she was Christian for some reason, and yet denied any of the teachings and rejected any attempt to explain the logical disconnect between her and Christ

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

John 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, "I am going away and I am coming back to you." If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am."

[@gobokinje9183]

@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts Neat, they're both God tho

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

@@gobokinje9183 So, if they are both God, you have Jesus as God, who is lesser than Jehovah, who is also God, is that correct? Collossians 1:15-16 Says: "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him." So Jesus is the firstborn of all creation, and John tells us he is lesser than his Father.

[@gobokinje9183]

@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts "Jehovah" is a made up name. it's not even a stand-in like Adonai for the tetragramadon, but yes, Jesus is "lesser" than the Father because he doesn't know when creation will end, and follows the commands of the Father as an example to us all, failing to see what you're taking issue with. How is a son obeying his father in conflict with the imagery of the Trinity?

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

@@gobokinje9183 As for the name Jehovah, that IS the Tetragrammaton. Hebrew has no vowels, so it might have bee Jehovah, Yahweh, or a different pronunciation, but the name of God was pronounced by Jews until the destruction of the Temple, and we have no need to follow their customs. As for the Trinity, if we are in agreement that Jesus is of God, that he is distinct from his Father YHWH, that he doesn't know the time of the end of creation while his Father does, and is united with his Father in love, then there is no disagreement on that matter, and praise be to God. It is a matter of significance, as some people use language like "co-equal" about the relationship between Jesus and God so as to suggest there is no distinction between the two. While these things might seem small, it is essential to have an accurate understanding of who God is, to the extent Revelation tells us.

[@carbon273]

I have a few questions about the data. 1. What is the sample/population size? 2. What was the basis for the categories? I know politics or culture can influence whether one believes he/she belongs to one group or another. 3. Are these seasoned Christian’s? Or new converts? So many questions.

[@indianagnomes4596]

Ive been a member of several churches over the years. A problem I've noticed is that the best, most Godly pastors are often the least in touch with how the rank and file really live their lives. Often on Sunday they seem to be speaking to the most committed and passionate believers, and absolutely theres a tendency to outsource theology teaching to small groups and the Alpha course

[@lanestp]

This is one of the reason that me and my family are becoming Orthodox. Protestantism is an atheism factory. In my mind this is all down to the low view of the sacraments. The Eucharist in particular.

[@shaunschulte2258]

Orthodoxy seems to be the current fad. But the turnover rate is heartbreaking. They’re looking for a system to replace their relationship with God. When they realize that Orthodoxy arguably values relationship higher than the other traditions, they end up apostatizing anyway.

[@FirstnameLastname-sw1ry]

The turnover may be because converts are being received way, way too fast. One liturgical year, following fasts and being present as much as possible during Holy Week and Pascha should be a required minimum.

[@shaunschulte2258]

@@FirstnameLastname-sw1ry It was longer in the early church, wasn’t it? I think it was 3 years, but I can’t remember the source of that.

[@dj393]

​@@shaunschulte2258It was 3.

[@dj393]

​​@@shaunschulte2258Do you have stats on the turnover rate? For those who have been catechised and "joined" the church (it's so much more), in the 4 yrs I have been attending this parish (became Orthodox 2 yrs in August) I have seen no one apostasize. I have seen seekers move on, a few catechumens give up, but never anyone else who converted. I know about cradle Orthodox who leave their parents' home & become apostates, and some come back. But I haven't seen this in converts. You'd think if it was happening a lot I would have seen at least one. We constantly have catechumens becoming converts

[@ruralgirl_007]

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[@bedeodempsey5007]

Of course, you would need to know that Christ is the Word to understand that basic verse. I fear many of the people in this survey would not understand that.

[@ruralgirl_007]

@bedeodempsey5007 I agree. I hope, at the very least, some might be inspired by that verse, to look deeper into the Bible and discover more Truth. When I originally read it, years ago, It sent me on a very inspiring and satisfying search for truth.

[@Justas399]

If you don't believe Jesus is God then you are not a Christian.

[@novaxdjokovic9592]

Amen

[@BunnyWatson-k1w]

Many Christians do not believe Jesus was God. The doctrine taught by their denominations does not support Jesus as God. There is little evidence for it in the Bible. It was a made up concept by early Christians. The only reason Christians believe Jesus was God is because the church denomination they belong to teaches it. What makes you Christian means you believe Christ was the son of God sent to die for our sins on the cross. That He rose from the dead on the third day and desire us all to follow Him. We are saved by grace.

[@Justas399]

@@BunnyWatson-k1w anyone who denies the deity of Christ is not a Christian.

[@holtscustomcreations]

I'm not sure you understand what in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God means. Or do you not understand the concept of the Trinity? Three persons, one God. The father is not the son and is not the spirit but he is God. The spirit is not the Son or the father but he is God. And the son is not the spirit nor the Father, but fully God.​@@BunnyWatson-k1w

[@BunnyWatson-k1w]

@@Justas399 Why is he referred to as the son of God and not God in the Bible? Why on the cross dying does Christ refer to his father and say forgive them they know what they do? When asked several times in the New Testament if he was God did Jesus defer to his father who is in heaven? He deferred to his father also when asked if his ideas were his. Christ stated his words were not from him but were his father who was in heaven.

[@williambrewer]

8:00 You would get slaughtered in a debate my friend. 1. Jesus fulfilled prophecy ≠ Jesus is God. John the Baptist also fulfilled prophecy, i.e. "a voice of one crying in the wilderness". Or are you talking about specific prophecies. You need to specify. If you mean the prophecy of Immanuel (meaning God with us), this was also fulfilled even in Isaiah's time c. 700BC. Was then that woman's son also God because he was named Immanuel? 2. Doesn't Jesus say the apostles could forgive sins? Does that make them God also? Joh 20;23 Whoever’s sins you forgive, they are forgiven them. Whoever’s sins you retain, they have been retained.” It seems like these require special pleading.

[@yourneighborkevin]

I would LOVE to hear you talk about the Trinity. A short-ish explainer about the triune nature of God would be really helpful. Maybe another short-ish video about the dual nature of Christ?

[@tigerboy1966]

Looks like Arianism is thriving.

[@JadeLunaraDCUOGaming]

I live in NC, a Catholic amongst many Protestants. You should see the look they give me and how they physically respond when I affirm I am a Christian. I explain that I believe Jesus is the Lord, and that I only worship the one triune God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit… then I get a condescending stare like “poor child, one day he’ll get why he’s wrong”. Its frustrating to say the least. We should of never split, this is what happens when we become the sole interpreters of the bible, infinite versions and infinite interpretations. Ive ran into too many baptist that say “noooo, Jesus is the “Son” of God, not God” then they quote Jesus out of context in the Bible. I dont know, you used the obvious in the bible to try and make your case. Saying things like “its right there” . That’s how I feel as a Catholic, its all right there. But some dont see what I see oh, and the other saintly scholars that dedicated their entire life to proclaim the good news. All sects under Christ have people that don’t understand their religion, beliefs, practices correctly. And misrepresent the theology.

[@abaker4692]

Baptist churches do teach Jesus is God.

[@PatrickMoto97]

Very true. I have a Baptist family and there is some confusion there in doctrine. Including the Trinity. Protestantism would do well to recite the creeds regularly.

[@kennethkugelman2977]

It is sad when anyone claiming to be a Christian doesn't believe that the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father, and doesn't understand what Jesus meant when He said, "Unless you believe that I Am He'.

[@Bathoggywinger]

Trinitarianism is paganism, its literally found in almost every pagan star worshiping nation of the past, even the prior Roman pagan Empire that existed prior to Catholicism. Additionally, no where in scripture is there a "trinity", a "truine God". When Christ speaks of God to the people, he says, there is one God. He never, ever, calls himself God. The second major argument is John 1:1, but there's also a little problem there, because people love to not read the entirety of the chapters of John, especially John 17 where Christ says something particular, that the followers of "The Way" will also "be one in God", just as the Son of Man, as in those who keep the Word of God. To be a Christian, you also require the Word of God. Due to the failure of biblical education, many people think the Word of God is merely "secular scriptural conception", reading words off of a book, but in the Bible it is a living power of God. Some may argue it is a transient power of God in a similar vein to the Holy Spirit, though these work quite differently. (Douay Rheims Bible) Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and effectual and more piercing than any two edged sword; and reaching unto the division of the soul and the spirit, of the joints also and the marrow: and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

[@MrSeedi76]

​@@Bathoggywingerinteresting how someone can be so wrong about the Bible but complain about a "lack of biblical education".

[@FortuneZer0]

Easy. Arius is right. Jesus is the son of our Lord God and his sacrifice for us his flock. Something with so much meaning and importence, he wouldn't let Abraham do it as it would have been pointless. Of the same thing doesnt equal the same thing. There is only one God. You thought you beat us into submission and into your false dogmas and creeds.

[@RestingJudge]

Vicious cycle. It's the parents dury to teach the faith, and if they're ignorant of basic teaching they're children will be moreso. I feel like a lot of people leave it up to the priest/preacher and youth groups. That's a gross dereliction of duty. Pray with your children and teach the faith folks.

[@ShaunCKennedyAuthor]

There's a lot to this. One of the problems is how do we define "Christian" or "evangelical." Is it an identity, or a description? If it's an identity, there are going to be people that were "raised evangelical" and don't know what else to call themselves, but they never cracked a Bible let alone read deeper stuff. Forgot knowing if Jesus was God, they even think that Jesus was American. But if evangelical or Christian is a description, what does it describe? For too many, an evangelical or a Christian is a "good guy" on "our team." This is particularly true for a subset of premillennial, Calvinist, conservative evangelicals. To be clear, I have good friends that are premillennial, good friends that are Calvinists, good friends that are conservative, and good friends that are evangelical. But my friends all recognize that ever one of these points is discussed and debated by people that are very intelligent and doing good things. In certain circles in which I used to have friends and have had to walk away from, unless you're a premillennial, Calvinist, conservative evangelical, you're a postmillennial, Arminian, liberal or a pagan and therefore evil. It's not that they can really tell you what any of those things mean, except that you vote their way at election time. The way I see it, this is primarily an inter-church failure. There are too many conventions and conferences that have made the primary alignment issues of political affiliation or issues of ceremonial orthopraxy. Issues of character and issues of conviction are entirely sidelined. If you don't believe me, look at the SBC and how much importance they place on denying women's ordination and how little they do to protect children from predators. I'm not saying that questions of politics and ceremonial orthopraxy aren't important, but take another read of the New Testament and tell me where you get that ceremonial orthopraxy is more important than ethical orthopraxy, and where you get that political alignment is more important than character.

[@protestanttoorthodox3625]

Jesus gave the authority to forgive sins to the church… The church has the authority to bind peoples consciences to the truth. Sola Scriptura is a doomed enterprise.

[@MrSeedi76]

Claiming the scriptures yourself and then claiming Sola Scriptura is wrong is some top notch mental gymnastics 😂.

[@Demetra719]

I found this out when a friend of mine applied for healthcare through one of the Healthcare Sharing Ministries… one question they ask is if you believe Jesus is God. My friend did not, and said, “Jesus isn’t God - he’s the SON of God! I won’t lie and tell them I believe he is God!” So she didn’t get approved for the healthcare through this organization, over this discrepancy 🤷‍♀️ I found it strange because I grew up Protestant (now Orthodox), and the idea that Jesus, the Son of God, isn’t God…literally never crossed my mind (nor do I believe that). It was surprising to me to learn that some people believe this way, as well.

[@peregrino9154]

Your friend might as well be a Mormon.

[@FirstnameLastname-sw1ry]

You know how the Orthodox cross themselves? Exactly.

[@Demetra719]

@@FirstnameLastname-sw1ry Sorry, I don’t understand your comment.

[@FirstnameLastname-sw1ry]

@@Demetra719 I should have elaborated. The hand used to cross oneself brings to remembrance of the Trinity and the two Natures of Christ; fully God and fully Man.

[@Demetra719]

@@FirstnameLastname-sw1ry Ah, yes, absolutely! I appreciate that aspect of physical rememberance of such an important point, that the church has kept.

[@TheMOV13]

A good friend of mine told me recently that he doesn't believe in the Trinity any more, it was very hard to have to say to him that we could not be considered to be in Christian fellowship any more, despite hopefully remaining friends on a human level. Other Christian friends I knew were saying "That's a bit harsh" but no, departure from belief in the Trinity is a departure from Christianity, it really is as brutal as that.

[@OrthodoxInsights]

This is why Catechizing those seeking to convert and enter The Church is so important, AND why it is exceedingly important to teach the children in The Church. That is the way it is done in the Orthodox Church, admittedly soemtimes Catechism can fall a little short, but not to this level.

[@dj393]

Catechism is important.

[@mattcostigan5843]

Can you do a series on the trinity? I feel like many fumble in this area of understanding.

[@JudeOne3Four]

Study the *enhypostasis and anhypostasis* and tell me if the trinity doctrine is not of the Devil.

[@bedeodempsey5007]

As an Orthodox Christian of over 15 years I pray this before every meal: "In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Christ our God, Bless the food and drink of Thy servant(s)." (Followed by the amens of all partaking). I do not miss the shallowness and doctrinal heterodoxy of Protestantism in all its myriad of errors.

[@noncthibodeaux1834]

Hey Matt, welcome to the LCMS! We love you and look forward to your confirmation!

[@bbgun061]

What is LCMS?

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

​​@@bbgun061 Lutherans Edit: wasn't he already a Lutheran?

[@acekoala457]

​@@bbgun061 Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. The Middle Conservative, though in the last few years getting less conservative, branch of American Lutheranism. I almost joined the LCMS but ended up Orthodox because I couldn't square the LCMS's Ecclesiological Praxis with their Ecclesiological Beliefs.

[@pkmcnett5649]

Is this true?

[@reepicheepsfriend]

When did he say he'd joined that denomination?

[@neilhaverly4117]

Jesus' titles include Prince of Peace, King of kings, Lord of lords, highest priest and King in the order of Melchizedek. Nowhere is it God of gods.

[@lukefuller284]

Thanks for this video, I had no idea the situation looked like this. Doesn’t remotely explain the numbers but I think a few people in the survey could have thought “Jesus isn’t God the Father” and marked No. But that may be part of what you had talked on where basic teachings have possibly been lacking.

[@polarfamily6222]

Which means that there's people in the church that lie about being Christian just as the Bible teaches. "Many say Lord, Lord... but I (Jesus) knew ye not." Matthew 7:22-24