How Ellie Became Her Own Worst Enemy (The Last of Us Video Essay)

[@higuysitseli]

I feel terrible for Tommy. Seeking revenge for Joel cost practically everything for him, including half his sight, and his wife, and all he has left is a burning hatred he can’t do anything about, so he tries to guilt Ellie into acting on it. If there is a part 3, I hope it gives a chance for both tommy and ellie to achieve some sort of redemption

[@brandonsantiago2298]

Yeah I honestly had no problem with any of the characters endings except for Tommy’s. He basically lost an eye, is a cripple, lost his brother and wife and just ends up as a bitter man filled with revenge and hatred. He was the good brother and the one who had truly found peace and happiness and lost everything

[@65firered]

*American Venom intensifies*

[@michael2134c]

@@brandonsantiago2298 you didn't say he lost his life? I haven't played the game

[@brandonsantiago2298]

@@michael2134c she didn’t die. They got like divorced. They just say his wife like threw him out for seeking vengeance instead of staying and protecting his home

[@DudePeace101]

I found the scene where he tries to guilt Ellie into going one of the most heartbreaking for the exact reason you described. When he said him and Maria were taking a break it almost made me tear up. Ellie Abby and Tommy got dragged into a maelstrom together and it took a piece of them all and broke them

[@_Devil]

Ellie fed into the cycle of hate that Joel was trying to prevent her from going down. When he died she pretty much lost the last of her humanity and it came at a great cost. Now, she's dark, and depressed, and lost her fingers and she can no longer do one of the main things that Joel himself taught her to do: Play guitar.

[@thethriftytypewriter]

100%. I actually think it’s really great symbolism that she lost her fingers and can’t play guitar. It’s the cycle of hate that led her to losing that last part of Joel she still had with her.

[@betrayouhana]

I feel like her issue isn't that, it's that she didn't do what Joel did, Joel changed and opened his heart again, she did the complete opposite of what Joel maybe tried inspiring her to do, and that's the meaning behind her losing her finger and ability to play guitar

[@Christiansstillstruggle]

Spot on

[@andrewp1653]

I think it's more like every time someone dies Joel just moves on, when tess died he never brings her up or talk about her the same with Henry and Sam like he said "things happend and we move on" He probably wanted Ellie and Tommy to do the same thing, which they should've... But then again... If it was Ellie that was killed... Joel would've probably been halfway to Seattle

[@slickstar96]

@@andrewp1653 Would he? or would he just suppress it with his other traumas. Ellie became joel but she couldnt take it, just like tommy couldnt take it, remember "he had nightmares of those years" Its the same reason why when dina gives her advice to get through the pain it hurts and feels weird because she has only been taught to suppress pain and cover it with violence by joel.

[@simonarpin2311]

I’ve always loved that Ellie and Abby are perfect opposites in their paths throughout the game. Abby begins the game at her worst and has to push to be a good person again. Ellie starts the game at her best, and slowly gets worse and worse until she reaches the point abby is at the beginning.

[@qsr1776]

yeah they're very different, but there are a few moments where their arcs parallel.

[@theunskilledshinigami7623]

I love how Abby starts her 3 days in Seattle at the same emotional place Joel was in at the beginning of the Boston segment in the first game and goes through a similar character arc of finding new meaning by helping a kid.

[@PastelN01r]

I feel like she ALMOST got to Abby's level but she managed to stop short of killing Abby, unlike Abby unable to stop herself

[@Ori_Kohav]

@@theunskilledshinigami7623 I think Abby’s struggle was shown in a slightly bolder way with those dreams. I won’t be surprised if it’d go the same way with Ellie in part 3. It did start that way in the farm. It also felt easier to relate to Abby when she rebelled, because the WLF, minus Abby’s group, were made much less likable than the fireflies, due to more selfish motives, and their leader, Isaac, acting without thinking (easily the character I hate the most in this game).

[@Zarathustr]

@@Ori_Kohav He thought A LOT about how to end the conflict with the Scars. Finally he came to the conclusion that he had to wipe them out. Not sure how u missed that.

[@dalepr69]

My understanding of the game is that its not 'revenge is bad' its about forgiveness, not Ellie forgiving Abby but being able to forgive Joel. In their final cutscene together she said she didn't know if you could ever forgive him but she would try, after Joel was killed she went on an absolute rampage, travelling most of the way across America and killing hundreds of people all for someone who was already dead. Joel done what he done to actually save her, while Ellie was wiling to do everything she done in part 2 just to avenge him.... she finally understood why he did what he did to keep her alive, she finally forgave him.

[@bug688]

My understanding of the game is that it's about the cyclical nature of hate and vengeance and how it eventually comes to destroy all. The main story is basically the embodiment of this idea: Joel kills Jerry (and all the Fireflies), Abby and her friends hunt him, Ellie and Tommy go after Abby's friends, Abby goes after Ellie and Tommy. The only way this cycle is sort of hindered is for somebody to eventually realise the futility of it all and just stop e.g. Abby sparing Ellie and Dina. But even that is not enough to end it all because one side is still ridden with the trauma of this cycle. It's only until both sides come to this realisation of the futility of the cycle and choose to forgive is when the cycle is broken. But what I love is that it's not just the main story that embodies this idea. We can see this idea prevalent in the WORLD of The Last Of Us Part 2. Look at the conflict between the WLF and the Scars - or Seraphites. It only took one act of violence to kickstart a war. Or look at the environmental storytelling through the notes we find scattered in the world. My favourite story from those notes is the story of Boris. Boris lost his daughter because she rebelled against the WLF and they retaliated and in turn he wanted vengeance. He does one of the most horrifying things we've seen from anyone in this world and drags all his former comrades into a spored garage so they can watch each other lose their minds all because they wouldn't support his mission of fighting the WLF. Then Ellie kills Boris after he turns into a stalker and picks up his bow to spill more WLF blood. It's so goddamn brilliant. But there are tons of other themes and ideas in this game like you mentioned the power of forgiveness. And it's so mindboggling how anyone can play this game and just take the surface level lesson of "revenge bad" because it's just so reductive. Anyways, it's a contender for my favourite game but I'm going to play red dead redemption 2 next week so that might change.

[@Gamfluent]

And yet in the end why was it it TLOU? Tlou was never about “muh revenge bad 🤓” it’s about family and how you can find hope in a apocalypse, no one liked tlou1 because of “muh revenge bad” people liked it because of Joel and Ellie’s relationship, and also people who say “Ellie didn’t forgive Abby” or “it isn’t about revenge” yes tf it is, Ellie by then legit kills everyone what’s stopping her from killing Abby (bad writing) it also would’ve been nice if Abby suffers more but in the end she legit loses nothing and gains a son, Ellie loses her father figure her uncle figure her gf her stepdaughter her ability to play Joel’s guitar, her community, the message isn’t “revenge is bad” the message is “revenge is only bad if you’re Ellie because apparently Abby can do it and not feel any repercussions”

[@Gamfluent]

@@bug688but how is it literally anything but dogshit? What do you mean “cynical nature of hate and vengeance” that’s RDR2 (peak btw) TLOU2 is legit just “how much can we demonize Joel and Ellie while bringing Abby up” Abby tortured Joel after he helped her all because her father was killed yet every player and Abby fails to realize Joel legit told the guy to leave when the surgeon pulled a scalpel and threatened Joel

[@bug688]

@@Gamfluent cmon dude, I know you love Joel but "pulled a scalpel and threatened Joel" lmfao

[@Gamfluent]

@@bug688 threaten a soldier with a glass shard during war and you’ll still be shot

[@PastelN01r]

Few things I hate about how people hate the game: 1. Ellie wasn't forgiving Abby, she was forgiving Joel through Abby. She pushed all her emotions onto this one person who deprived her of closure, until she finally had her hands on her neck and let her go. 2. There's a secret happy ending, Ellie gets to overcome her grief and start the process of healing, and in Santa Barbara she doesn't have Dina's bracelet, but in the farm she does hinting at, at the very least, they are on not-hostile terms 3. It isn't really about the cycle of violence but more so the impact of family and forgiveness on us

[@Ori_Kohav]

I think she started seeing the light during her fight with the rattlers. Otherwise, she’d kill Abby right on that post, rather than releasing her and letting her release Lev. There wouldn’t be anything Abby could do about it, being hung up and exhausted.

[@chadmann2724]

Only thing I hate about people who like 2 is they don’t realize Neil Drunkwoman didn’t even write the first game. He got jealous the writer of the first game did so great.

[@mrrobluxo2369]

@@chadmann2724 he did write the first game stop spreading misinformation

[@chadmann2724]

@@mrrobluxo2369 he had a team. If you think 1 was gold because he wrote it himself you are the one spreading democrat buzzwords.

[@mrrobluxo2369]

@@chadmann2724 no need to unnecessarily bring politics into this u weirdo 🤣

[@thebatmanofneo-gotham5667]

As someone who's played TLOU Part 2 since its release, it always bugged me that people didn't understand Ellie's seething anger towards Joel. Her being so distant from him in the sequel is literally a direct response to him lying to her about other immune people like her and taking the choice of what to do with her life away from her. This is why she blew up on him that she should've died in that hospital and that her life would've mattered. Ellie is literally the victim of a circumstance that she didn't get to have a say in, and it's been eating her up from the inside since the ending of the first game. Part 1's ending clearly foreshadowed how Ellie would react to Joel's lie, and Part 2 capitalized on that very foreshadowing. Naughty Dog couldn't have been more obvious about this plot element if they tried their damn hardest.

[@chadkriegsman]

True. I still think part 2 could’ve done some things better but that isn’t something I have a problem with

[@onlychaosmatters]

Ellie is a pure cringe. Abby is miles ahead better character overall.

[@thebatmanofneo-gotham5667]

@@onlychaosmatters Eh. To each their own.

[@onlychaosmatters]

@@thebatmanofneo-gotham5667 Yep, cringe people like cringe characters

[@euclidesoliveira3034]

@@onlychaosmatters this is actually a FAT FACT... but its a conversation people are not even remotly ready to have... 👀😂

[@JustDen1_]

Its really complicated, I think the writers did an amazing job. As the player, were feeling all these different emotions, sad, angry upset, confused, even playing as Abby we feel uncomfortable, fighting with Abby was uncomfortable and I think that's exactly what the writers wanted to portray. They wanted us to feel the way ellie feels, and how her revenge story wasn't a satisfying one based on how she and us as the player feel and I think that's so indept and really cool to portray your video game like that hence why I feel like that's why it got a lot of hate and stuff

[@odemenaasaba2341]

In a lot of ways I see Abby's story as its own separate thing and it mirrors Ellie's story in different ways. While Ellie is falling into the cycle of revenge, Abby is trying to get out of it and she does this by finding purpose. This is exactly what Ellie needs; a sense of purpose and the motivation to be a better person in a world that is so unforgiving

[@toughmilk]

You hit the nail on the head with pinpointing how we as the player gradually learn the motivation of Ellie's actions and what state her relationship with Joel was before he died. By Ellie Day 3, I knew she had gone over the edge and lost herself in her quest when she chose to pursue Abby instead of going with Jesse to help Tommy. It really hurts to play as Ellie in TLOU part 2 and I think that brings into focus her growth by the end of the game (though I feel like she still is not done with her journey at that point).

[@Ori_Kohav]

She’s clearly not done yet. She needs a redemption arc.

[@johncorretjer4267]

Also little detail I noticed is that Ellie’s hairstyle in LoU2 is very similar to Tess’s hairstyle

[@Loginv]

true, that is interesting

[@slickstar96]

Ellie became the same exact person she grew to hate. She loved joel dearly but was left confused by his lie, breaking her trust with him. It makes even more sense when you realise she has never been loved like that before adding to her confusion thats why she goes on this long journey of revenge/closure and then is forced to confront those feelings during the abby fight because there is nothing beyond that...

[@TheMarine316]

Great video dude, Ellie is my favorite female protagonist in games, she definitely became the worst version of herself but by the end of part 2 I think she sees that herself & is going off to reclaim who she was, looking forward to seeing her journey in part 3.

[@Rubi0o0]

Jesus christ it is so refreshing to see a well-thought out analysis of this game. I love the way you covered this!

[@thethriftytypewriter]

Thank you very much!

[@lilliebobson3146]

This is why I really love the story of the game. Its gut wrenching and doesnt pull any punches. The world they live is ruthless and not even kids are immune to hate and destruction. Joel lost his life due to his actions and ellie lost her relationship and fingers. I personally like stories that dont hold back to appease a whiny audience but stays true to the world in which it lives.

[@melhass0326]

ellie is my favorite character of all time

[@rob_patrick1]

I'm here to say something about the video length.. Idk about everyone else but I don't mind longer youtube videos like maybe 1 hour, especially delivered by you, Thrifty. You have such a nice voice, the kind that I don't mind listening to you while I'm doing something else, and you always deliver valid objective points, and your personal opinions in a sincere way, coupled with your narration speed and voice, just chef's kiss..

[@7orotv3]

Seeing Ellie’s plummet into darkness was so sad to me. I missed her part 1 self so much in the sequel. But it showed how darkness can take anyone down to hell 😔

[@PedroLucas-mg5je]

She evolved from a naive and innocent girl to a traumatized and depressed woman playing, what Arthur Morgan would say, a "fool's game"!

[@opfor_8876]

I think we not having a choice at the end to whether spare or kill Abby, although might make us a bit angry at first, it really put us into Ellie's shoes again at the end of part I, where, you know, you feel like such an important thing just happened without us having a chance to decide for ourselves... might be reading too much into it, but I do feel like this particular choice helped me empathize with her reaction towards Joel more.

[@pixelatedowls]

i started watching not too long ago with walking dead related videos, it makes so happy to see you covering more topics ESPECIALLY the last of us. it’s such a cinematic masterpiece with so many small details that can easily be missed. i’d love to see you cover tlou more with the show coming out soon!

[@d1nae]

i think a lot of people, all the ones who think she should have killed abby, despite literally playing ellie, didnt realize how cruel she had become and how it gradually impacted her.

[@Ori_Kohav]

I think they do, but are in denial of it, because they put Joel on a pedestal

[@MeMelon]

What a fantastic video dude. I'm writing a video about Part 2 and have been watching other peoples thoughts on the story and characters and man your writing is really smooth and thorough

[@michaelt7852]

I don't think the previous video was too long. You did a great job with the last one and this one. I enjoy your content a lot!

[@jasongrayson4945]

You should do a video on Tommy as well once the Abby video is out. I think his arc in Part 2 is very interesting and really wish we got a DLC about his time in Seattle, intercut with flashbacks to he and Joel during the beginning years of the outbreak

[@thethriftytypewriter]

I’ve been thinking about it and it would be a bit tough because compared to Joel,Ellie, and Abby, there’s actually very little about Tommy to actually cover. I could still do it but it would just be significantly shorter than the others 😂

[@PedroLucas-mg5je]

@@thethriftytypewriter I like to think of Tommy and Joel as like this: Tommy = Rick Grimes after the All Out War Joel = Shane Walsh during Season 2

[@angla3383]

I hope Ellie can heal and find happiness and something or someone to keep fighting for I’m my head she goes back to Jackson and helps raise jj 💔💔💔

[@Drewgantka_97]

Neil Druckman once said “if the first game was about the love between these two characters, then part two is about hate.” I get what he was trying to get across but my take on part 2 would be if part 1 is about this growing love, then part 2 is a story about the cost of that love. Everything the characters go through in part 2 can be traced back to that key decision Joel made to save Ellie because of the love he had for her.

[@saircron3160]

Yeh Ellie's story arc is a real masterpiece.

[@saircron3160]

and an amazing video!

[@christopherpeccorini9592]

I used to be a total tlou2 hater, for the usual biased reasons the other haters have too. But then I actually PLAYED IT, and everything you said in this video is so true.

[@thethriftytypewriter]

I was the same way. I let the internet decide my opinion on the game and then I actually played it. If you go into it with an open mind, willing to let yourself experience the story without preconceived notions, then I bet you 90% of the haters would actually like it:

[@dckaroundylan]

yo man this video changed my perspective entirely on part 2 i recently played it finally after putting it off after how distraught i was about abby killing joel and we having to play as her it made me never even want to play it but now i’ve been thinking about it and actually playing the game plus this video it’s really help me see what they were doing with this and makes me love the series even more

[@darcybhaiwala7057]

You hit the nail on the head - Ellie wants Joel to be lying so that her life could mean something, and wants Joel to be telling the truth so their relationship could mean something. It frames her resentment towards him AND her revenge quest for him as a perfect messy paradox, mirroring the journey of Joel discovering his own life's meaning and journey to selflessness in Part I (coming to complete fruition in his scenes in Part II). Joel's life meant something again when he found a daughter in Ellie. Ellie thought her life would mean something again if she avenged Joel, but the problem is she hasn't adequately addressed her resentment towards him yet. (I think the order of when the flashbacks come to her represent her coming to terms with her resentment and forgiveness, but I don't think this transformation is complete, even with that final cutscene.) If there is a Part III it should address how Ellie chooses to address the past, letting go? Embracing it? Atoning for it? Forgiving it? Or even darker: in forgiving Joel did Ellie learn the wrong lessons from him?

[@ZombieKiller2019]

You nailed part 2 and the way I saw that too. Ellie doesn't want to be a killer and is tired of all the violence and revenge. In the end she let Abby go because Abby and lev reminded her of her and Joel. And they did have a similar experience where they traveledand killed and fought and bonded and became close. It was really a beautiful story of emotion and death and friendship and how people react if you don't live up to what's expected of you in some ways with Tommy getting passed at Ellie for not wanting to go after her again. And how will he react to Abby still being alive? Will Eillie tell him? Will she take a page out of Joel's book and lie about it to protect him? Ugh it'll be years before we see part 3!

[@Joannathegirlgamer3]

" If she kills Abby, then she also becomes exactly like Joel, destroying the one thing in this world that Lev has left " Ellie never found out, as far as we know at least, that the exact reason as to why Abby killed Joel was because Joel killed her father. She thinks it all happened because Joel stopped the cure and now there isn't another chance. Still though she forgave Joel through it because she realised why Joel did what he did, which was because she was everything to him and wanted her to live and probably also because she felt bad for Lev being left alone like she feels now after Joel is gone and indeed doesn't want to become like Abby and also follow down Joel's road.

[@DawnsHuntress]

Oooh that’s probably my only one critique of the game - the fact that Ellie never knew that Joel killed Abby’s father and was under the impression that it was because she was immune and he took that chance away. Though I’m sure Abby was able to figure out that Joel was important to Ellie due to her reaction to his death, there’s still the chance if Abby knowing if Joel was that father figure to Ellie. They both lost dads essentially and I wish that last part in Santa Barbara had a little more dialogue revolving around that common factor since they’re literally two sides to the same coin. But in hindsight, keeping Ellie in the dark about Abby’s true reason for killing Joel aligns with the theme of her immunity being wasted because of Joel’s actions and how she ends up forgiving him.

[@Joannathegirlgamer3]

@@DawnsHuntress If there's actually a third game they'll hopefully clear these out. They maybe didn't do it so Ellie has more of a reason to get revenge for Joel since she wouldn't know the real reason behind his death

[@channel45853]

Saddest part is when she returns to see her family is gone. Rdr2 coming before where it shows the family being there and ready for John and that not happening in this game is an unintentional subversion that I like.

[@ZombieKiller2019]

Wait, who thought that he saves her because she didn't give consent? That's laughable! She talked the ENTIRE game about how it is all supposed to mean something and she WANTED to make the journey. Joel only did it cuz she wanted him to take her there but when they got there he couldn't let her die even to save the world, he loves her like a daughter. She gave consent the entire game! Ooo I can't wait for this show!

[@Ori_Kohav]

Yes, as laughable as it is, there are people who actually said that. Specifically those who put Joel on a pedestal, and are in denial of his flaws.

[@onlychaosmatters]

@@Ori_Kohav Why is that his flaw? Let the kid to decide what it wants? How can Ellie make that decision as a child even if she consented? Meaning? To save all those animals they were fighting all the time? All this is pointed out in the ending of part 2 where tribes kill each other. This game shows what people really are. Still same animals who 200 000 years ago crushed ones skull for a piece of meat. Sacrificing for those is pointless. Joel knew that and concluded that life without those people you care about is not worth living. Ellie is in fact villain who refuse to accept the truth. That Joel made good decision.

[@Ori_Kohav]

@@onlychaosmatters this kid has been through more than enough, and she was clearly old enough to make her own decisions. Also, most adults in her shoes would act the same way. Ellie was right to be upset after learning the truth about what Joel did, because his motives were undeniably selfish. All he really wanted was to be a daddy again, no matter who dies, and no matter how his new kid feels about it.

[@onlychaosmatters]

@@Ori_Kohav So you would let your 14 year old decide to sacrifice herself? Undeveloped, optimistic and idealistic human? I think that there is a good reason why are parents legally responsible for the children under 18. (for the shake of argument I will ignore two things; 1) that vaccine was only probability, but her death was certain and 2) that it wouldn't matter much since the instability and suffering would continue anyway, clans vs clans, and so on..) Even if he was selfish that doesn't mean that he didn't do it also for her own shake. She is right to be mad at him the same way children are right to be mad at the parents for bringing them to dentist.

[@Ori_Kohav]

@@onlychaosmatters so you would deny her of her rightful choice just because she’s not 18? even though she’s been through more than enough to make her own choices? Not to mention the fact that, again, most adults in her shoes would do the same, because it was for a good cause, and it meant everything to her. Doesn’t matter if she’s not 18. She’s clearly more in the right mind than Joel was, and has more than enough experience to understand consequences. and no, Joel didn’t do that for Ellie. He did that for himself. He knew how much this meant to her and why. That’s why he didn’t let her decide, and why he lied to her face. He pretty much treated her like a toddler. P. S. That old claim from your previous comment that other people are not worth saving is a typical excuse of Joel bias.

[@Erftan57]

I knew I recognized your intro music. It's the round change sound for Dead of the Night in Black Ops 4 zombies. Love that it's getting used, just found your channel too

[@thethriftytypewriter]

I’m always surprised at the amount of people who recognize it. From what I gathered people hated that map yet everyone who recognizes it says they love it 😂 welcome to the channel!

[@aeh5109]

Ellie is my favorite character of all times.

[@Maxb0-__-]

The amount of copium on some people over the clear flaws/bad decisions of a character they like is crazy but i you do make really good analysis videos, big ups

[@jamesloucks2562]

The word you want is *cognitive dissonance* "Abby is Evil because she does such violent things, but every violent thing Ellie does is justified....cause fuck Abby" It's honestly sad to watch.

[@alexwilliams2276]

I guess it depends on your interpretation of the ending. I saw the ending as Joel giving her hope into her life. Never personally thought that Ellie for a second believed in Joel. I believe she didn’t want to lose him, or be alone and went with the lie even though she knew there was something more to what he was saying. The Fireflies aren’t innocent either because of their mantra. They are better than FEDRA, but as Part 2 showed their once followers became part of the WLF. And it’s not hard to see why. The reformation of the Fireflies is promising though. Many feel that the flashbacks should be Part 2 due to the pacing of the Last of Us. We learn of Abby though these flashbacks and as once comentar explains Abby then kills him in Part 3.

[@IronheartvsMiles]

Joel is selfish, ellie wanted her life tomean something. Riley would have die for nothing if ellie didnt do anything to help people, joel took that from her

[@Jarino507]

The creators explicitly said the cure would have worked. Also thank you for this. I'm sick of butthurt people hating on part 2.

[@joelpatricklota5989]

Tlou 2 is a very unique story that not all the main character deserve a happy ending, tlou 2 leave you with a broken heart with emotional trauma even me i cant move on

[@wodidos]

Two things can be true at once my friend. It’s possible that it’s true that joe acted selfishly saving ellie, while at the same time it is true that they never did get consent from ellie und could not even ethically get consent from a 14 (!) year old to let herself get killed.

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

what I like about the end of the Last of us 2 is when Ellie lost her fingers she lost her final connections to Joel as she couldn't play the guitar anymore. To me that felt like she can finally get a fresh start yeah she lost everything including herself for a while but now it feels like she can finally breathe and move on and quite possibly get her family back. Maybe Dina doesn't take her back but maybe she does and Ellie can finally be the parent she wanted to be at the end of the game

[@RatedRLoquender]

I liked that TLOU2 went in a AoT S4 direction where you actions have consequences and you have to experience those consequences from the other side of the coin.

[@JRT026]

9:16 that jump kill tho 😭

[@MCChibby]

I think its problematic to say that because she says much later that she would have been ok dying that the fireflys were ok to kill her without informed consent. The fact that they were going to murder her rather than risk her saying no makes them as bad as or even worse than Joel.

[@frythatchick78]

I loveeeeed your video essay on this! Thank you !!! This game is so much deeper than what most players were able to take away from it. You hit all the points on the nose!!

[@chaos1061]

Joel was selfish killing all those people and saving Ellie against her request , but he also cared about Ellie, over the game Joel slowly starts to see Ellie as a daughter and in part 2 after Joel died Ellies disappointment and anger towards Joel goes out the window and she gets overwhelmed with anger and and guilt for pushing away the only person left that truly cared for her and helped her live a life she has been missing is her young life

[@Ares99999]

Except she would have preferred to give her life for something greater than herself. Joel took that away from her and then outright lied about it. So Joel was self-centered two times. One: taking away the choice that Ellie clearly would have made differently than he wanted and two: lying about it because he couldn't bear to have her hate him for it. Sure, Joel cared about Ellie (although there was a lot of projection involved), but her desires always were secondary to his own.

[@theunskilledshinigami7623]

I'm still waiting for that Abby video.

[@jimmygangster4453]

This is my first time watching one of your videos; you have no idea how surprised I was to see the golden time travel sphere from DARK in your intro and outro!

[@jonl13]

People were mad at Joel’s death because they’re used to Hollywood giving beloved father figures Gandalf/Last Samurai-ish final stands before dying (though not a father see how people responded to Luke Skywalker’s death). Let’s not glorify it either: Joel’s death sentence was set after the ending of part 1. You could argue he wouldn’t have let his guard down in front of strangers but he had 4+ years of a peaceful town life at Jackson by that point. Even if you un-Tarantino it and go chronological the game wouldn’t work pacing wise with all the flashbacks up front. You needed that out the gate to set drive and the flashbacks to fill the gaps and give comfort during the ongoing struggles and horrors of Seattle.

[@yazzieyaz740]

Exactly , they wanted too much , like emotional music playing in the background , Joel makes a heroic sacrifice , him having his last words , and goin out like a badass . I felt this was more realistic approach and it matched up with the games story , his fate was sealed after saving Ellie , his actions had consequences.

[@Ori_Kohav]

Let’s not forget that Joel and Tommy were chased by a horde of infected in a blizzard. Going with Abby’s group was literally their only choice, otherwise they’d both be dead, or worse

[@olekcholewa8171]

I found your channel and i just finished watching the video about the Conjuring universe (my favourite horror franchise) and then bro drops this (The last of us is my favourite game). I see you're a man of culture my friend, you have earned a new subscriber.

[@thethriftytypewriter]

Haha welcome to the channel my friend! Thank you very much!

[@rikorobinson]

I agree about Joel's motivations. He knew that if they woke her up and gave her a choice, she'd choose to give up her own life. But it's still abundantly clear that they were NOT giving her that choice. So I think the ending is a little more complicated than you think, as well. I don't think it's so one sided. I think Joel and the Fireflies are both meant to seem selfish and wrong.

[@jemazondo9331]

What would be the point of getting Ellie's consent? The fate of the human race was on the line. They believed they had the cure to save humanity in their hands. What if she said no? What then? "Welp, she said no guys. I guess we're doomed. Nothing we can do."

[@rikorobinson]

@@jemazondo9331 Hey, Jemazondo. Hope you're doing well. That's the conversation the game is creating. It's quite obviously the Trolly Problem. Personally, I couldn't do it. I think she's the only person allowed to decide to give up her life. So we differ there.

[@crazyinsane500]

@@jemazondo9331 If a cure was so important, why didn't they notify FEDRA about her? FEDRA had orphanages, a logistic infrastructure to distribute supplies, and infection scanners. Not only could they research it, they could distribute a cure. The Fireflies had people in doctor costumes in a dirty lab looking to kill the golden goose.

[@1kbmahan]

Imagine being just mad at a game after 3 years

[@ciaranclark8312]

I agreed with everything said in this video. This is what I’ve been saying since it came out. You get it man

[@williamfernandez1022]

Loved the video man!

[@nickymo]

Never considered how shitty it is no matter which truth Ellie finds, neither is one she wants to confront. Either Joel was right and she can’t save the world, or he murdered all those people and lied to her.

[@gayaf22]

Still waiting for you to release the Abby breakdown video😞

[@Animorpha1]

That’s what death is…it happens when you don’t want it to. It changes you to a extreme sense.

[@Ori_Kohav]

9:52 - actually, it seems more like Nora DIDN’T give Abby up, and that Ellie got the info by either interrogating or overhearing the other soldiers (who were already searching for Abby, and they knew she was involved with Owen, and that he lived in that aquarium for years). For one thing, Ellie feeling horrified can very well be from interrogating someone and getting nothing from it, as we see that same horror on her after she kills Owen and Mel. Another factor is where Abby *actually* was at the time, at least to Nora’s knowledge (in that same hospital, not the aquarium). We also know Ellie has a reason to lie to Dina and Jesse about it (to keep them from getting cold feet, since Dina already tried to reason about it a day before). P. S. A lot of people insist that this theory is factually false, and that Nora did give Abby up, but since we don’t actually see the full interrogation, we don’t know what ACTUALLY happened there, we don’t see any proof of that, and it honestly made more sense that something else got her to the aquarium.

[@sea_buggy]

11:01 wait there’s an actual flashback in the game of her thinking of joel when abby gets lev???? i need to replay

[@unioneye1087]

A theme of redemption/forgiveness revolving around Ellie and Abby would go hard ngl

[@amayzinrayzin8783]

I really enjoy the content you put out you have covered a lot of topics I and Many people enjoy I can't wait for more man keep it up great stuff here

[@jasangkal]

the amount of hate abby gets is insane, and it shows how they dont understand the story and point of the game

[@nikolasbelus5262]

Again Amazing keep doing this type of videos

[@bcfcjames85]

To me TLOU is about the things we humans are capable of doing to survive and the depth of emotion we experience from our joy and pain. The first game is about love and the power of that emotion to override everything else. the way that Joel will do whatever it takes to keep Ellie from harm even if his actions at the end of the game seem morally dubious. He lost one daughter to this world he’s not about to let it happen again. The second game is about hate and obsession. The lengths we would go to hurt someone who had killed/hurt someone we love, but also the toll that mowing down anyone who stood in our way would take on us. This is how Ellie begins to lose herself. Blinded by pain and grief oblivious to the lives she is destroying and the danger she is putting her friends in. Both games are amongst the finest narrative story telling in any form of media.

[@urlittlewindmill]

Loved this so much!

[@herndonhimself2567]

your Last of Us videos bring me such joy, i think both games are practically flawless beginning to end and I believe i have found someone who agrees with all my points. Please keep up with any more last of us videos, maybe even one on Abby? might get the haters away from the channel 😂

[@Ori_Kohav]

Hopefully 😅 Though there are multiple characters that are worth expanding on in this series, including those that are already dead. Owen, Jesse, and a few from the side stories in the scattered notes, like Boris.

[@XBlaqKrowX]

Very good video, looking forward to future last of us breakdown videos if you happen to make more in the future

[@bronmill33]

Its such a great example of how the actions and trauma of the older generation pass down to the next. Although Joel did everything for her, his decisions and influence played a huge influence on Ellie’s downfall throughout part 2. Hopefully in part 3, Ellie can overcome her trauma, loss and guilt and take to heart the good things Joel passed down to her while learning to deal with the results of his actions

[@RealKame]

The title had me thinking it's an interesting title it's like wow

[@drawlanie]

lbh you have nuanced thoughts that's what ruffles people's feathers, it's not all black and white and you know it and you express it beatifully in your videos!

[@ALPHAX336]

Fantastic video!

[@alteredstates3316]

Love the videos dude! Is there a chance that we could get one exploring Abby next? Or at least exploring the parallels between her and Ellie's arcs. Edit: didn't finish the video before commenting lol whoops. Can't wait for that Abby video!

[@rrice3142]

Great video. Thanks !

[@RealKame]

Awesome video bro

[@mikailjungling5346]

You just earned a new subscriber - 100%

[@sirusbertram4188]

Very great video, great commentary content creator

[@300Spartan03]

I would love to see Part 3 focus on Tommy and see more of his story, they could possibly show some of the nightmares that Tommy said he'd been having from their past days. It'd be interesting

[@thethriftytypewriter]

Some flashbacks would be great if they could work it into the overall story. If Tommy wasn’t hurt I’d say he would be a great second playable character for a part 3.

[@Ori_Kohav]

@@thethriftytypewriter late comment, but I just thought of Maria, Tommy’s now ex wife. She already seemed badass enough in the first game, and I think giving her more moments would be great, especially with flashbacks that would shed some light on her relationship with Tommy, since I have a feeling that their break-up wasn’t as peaceful as he claims.

[@benmoutela4348]

I'm not sure if the anyone noticed this but in Ellie and Abby's first fight Ellie bites Abby. So I'm not sure if Abby is also immune or the devs overlooked the fact that Ellie is immune but still infected so her biting Abby should have infected Abby as well just like in the first game when Ellie fights David and bites him then tells him that now he's infected too.

[@mahega128]

Nothing wrong with the recap imo. For example I liked how in the Joel video you would describe little moments throughout the story that would reinforce your analysis on Joel’s character; like how he was slightly peeved when Bill would smacktalk Ellie as one example. Also makes the video longer to sit down and relax. That’s just my take 👍

[@stanleylee3329]

Ellie went down the path that Joel went down in the decades before the first game, and Abby was going down leading up to the second and it was so tough to see. She begins the first game as so full of light and unlike what some fans think ND never forget that-but she isn’t that person anymore. She grew up, her reason for existing and her life’s purpose had been taken from her by her father of all people, and that father’s life is taken in front of her eyes. I think the interesting thing about Ellie in this game is when you started to say “it’s enough, go home.” The same thing I personally said when Joel was going to rescue Ellie and what Owen told Abby, I started thinking to Ellie when Dina got sick. It was obvious that Dina couldn’t go on this journey while dealing with morning sickness and her health should’ve been number one. But it wasn’t. And then saving Tommy should’ve been the priority but again, it wasn’t. Throughout this game at nearly every turn she takes the decision to delve further and further into the abyss and give into her hatred. But some people don’t feel the need to turn back even when she leaves her peaceful life with Dina for another chance at vengeance. Some people’s first time saying “wait no, don’t do this” is when Ellie lets Abby go and that’s what makes her character and the games in general so compelling. As far as she goes, as much as she forsakes for her goal, as much humanity she loses, you understand why she’s doing it. Hopefully there’s a second game though, because this game was so fucking depressing

[@justcurious..3580]

This is one of the only game that I enjoyed replaying it at least four times..✌️

[@brandonsantiago2298]

I’m seriously loving your channel man. Try to do a character analysis for Lee, Kenny and Clementine of telltales the walking dead

[@stonecoldranblesfan862]

The world was a lot safer when Ellie wasn’t alone

[@ScenariosOfDrea]

love it and the premier was amazing

[@redwaldcuthberting7195]

The most unrealistic thing in this game is someone playing a PSvita in the apocalypse.

[@michaelriley8314]

Frl

[@Ori_Kohav]

Whitney? She got punished for har carelessness. Also, it’s kinda ridiculous that they still put her on guard with this handheld console. In the military, it wouldn’t be allowed, and even trying to sneak those in can result in severe punishment.

[@ReuseDeuce]

Reading these comments you can really feel the love for the video game series. I have only played the second one once mainly for the fact that you play as Abby for 10-15 hours. I almost didn’t finish it because to me it felt way too long. Still one of the greatest stories though. Watching this video (and as time goes on) it really makes me want to play it again. I just finished part 1 grounded not too long ago and I think it’s time for me to embark on part 2 grounded

[@Zarathustr]

Part 1 is wayyyyyyyy harder on grounded so u got this.

[@Ori_Kohav]

I already finished grounded mode in part 2. Brief summary: The hardest parts of it were the defend-your-position encounters as Abby. Once you’re past those, you’re pretty much set. The rat king fight may be the hardest on other difficulties, but it doesn’t spike too much on grounded. Also, in the Santa Barbara part, releasing the chained up infected made the final 2 rattler encounters much easier than I expected, since those 2 infected I released were clickers. They did almost all the job for me 😅

[@okaberintarou5203]

I would know this since I myself am my own worst enemy. So I do feel what Ellie feels. Only difference is that I probably would've lost my sanity versus trying to kill Abby, being huddled up in a room, crying and begging for death to come take me away.

[@Ori_Kohav]

Your analysis is very accurate, other than the one thing I pointed out in my other comment. How about analyzing characters from Ghost of Tsushima? Even the non-playable characters there have a lot of story for them, specifically Jin’s allies, my personal favorite of them being Norio. It’s also worth noting that it had a very good impact in actual Tsushima, as fans of the game donated a lot to a fundraiser made by one of the priests to rebuild a monument in Tsushima that was destroyed by a typhoon.

[@A-MANANALYZES]

Dumb people still saying ellie's motivation was not clear

[@DDylast]

Thank you for your insightful commentary. I look forward to your Abby video.

[@HomelanderHL2]

Ellie is a great and strong character despite what happened the second part of the franchise. He lost everything to the point that revenge is no longer enough. I have ups and downs towards the entire franchise but Ellie still stands out.

[@iliasVoolgaris]

I hate that she left the guitar behind. Joel's last gift to her, i understand "starting anew" but not by forgetting about her father completely

[@mikailjungling5346]

Love your little obi wan quote

[@RelaxedKoi]

Thankfully this video exists so for anyone who bitches about the 2nd part. this explains why the story turned out the way it did. It’s human and raw.

[@matthewct8167]

The fire flies aren’t that much better because they really did not give Ellie a choice, even though she most likely would have consented.

[@LunaBeth97]

Just found this channel through your walking dead video😂 But this video made me change my mind about the game. I was fully expecting the game to start with Joel's death and that the game would be about Ellie dealing with the results. However, spending so much time with what's her name made me think we were going to get a story with the conclusion of tentative forgiveness since we grew to be fully aware of the impact of our actions and had empathy for the other female. I thought that through Ellie biting her during the big fight, they'd find some sort of cure/ preventative measure that wasn't perfect but was something that forced them to need to work together and that would be the conclusion. I'm not necessarily mad about what we got as I have come around to understanding character motivations. But it doesn't help that I've experienced a lot of shit irl and have PTSD from it so I'd view it as regressing if I chose to give up a more peaceful existence for revenge especially when the revenge is so pitiful in the end. Like I understand that it sucks having an uncertainty out there that has directly caused you a lot of pain but you can't control everything and sometimes you have to just focus on moving on for your own wellbeing.

[@deanesposito5682]

finally someone fucking gets it

[@jonathanh2o621]

Ellie’s character lacks direction for one clear path. On one hand she leans towards dying to save humanity. But on the other hand, she tells Joel that after they are done with the FireFlies, she’ll go wherever he wants. I think Joel saved Ellie because she made him that promise. Also, did anyone notice that near the end of Part 1 when Ellie tells Joel about Riley, Ellie is holding the same two small fingers on her left hand that Abby bit off near the end of Part 2? 🧐

[@pro_154]

Joel wanted a second chance to save his daughter, and he took it at the cost of Ellie's dream. Crazy how people can politicize that fact. Ellie learned from Joel very, very well, and picked up on the rage, shame and mistakes that Joel made up until his death. Dina and Tommy ironically were everything Joel wanted. His wife, child and brother, and Ellie walked away from it.

[@VicDavila]

Ellie is a dark protagonist, and in all reality, Abby isn't nearly as bad as she is through out TLOU2

[@lau.tizzir]

Yeah, I don't understand when some people don't understand why Ellie is mad at Joel, that she should even be grateful. Imagine to live in a world when everyone is struggling to survive, and everytime you open your heart to someone and that love one dies you feel this guilt, because maybe your sacrifice could have meant that person would never have had to face that end. Ellie's fear was to be alone and her immunity gives her advantage in that word, but she can't give that to the people she wants to protect. It's a tough spot.

[@Jack_Crenshaw]

Well when the games poor writing is as bad as it is, its not a shocker why. Like other critics have stated, the emotions Ellie is feeling aren't justified and tonally wrong. When Ellie discovers what Joel did, she says that her life would have mattered and yet at the same time she expresses joy for the companionship with Dina Jeese and her love interest at the time Kat who would give her that tattoo to cover her infection scar, it seems pretty hypocritical and out of place from the Ellie we knew. Its why people say the emotions the game wants you to feel are at odds with the writing and gameplay. It was poorly executed.