Cash for courses: UK universities taking foreign students on low grades | Sunday Times Investigation

[@melaniepemberton2882]

This is a very old story. I did a Master's degree in Sheffield in the early nineties; it was full of Chinese students who could barely speak English. None of them failed to graduate.

[@davidbowl9650]

I have a group project at my uni and my group can’t speak English. Nice people for sure. But they literally can’t speak English

[@User3749cvndhkcgk]

@@davidbowl9650tell them to eff off 😂

[@iamthe1234567890]

That's not because the professors passed bad essays. It's because the students paid people to write good essays. That money goes into the British economy. And the students who can't speak English after 3 years isn't going to get a job here, so they go back to their own countries, and has no effect on us. Tell me, what exactly is so bad about this?

[@stain4128]

@@iamthe1234567890because people who did well in exams (worked hard) have less opportunity’s to get in

[@Aminur48]

​@@iamthe1234567890taking spaces from British students? Also lowering the quality of the education and institutions? Making the degree useless?

[@mofojohnson1]

The whole university system needs an overhaul

[@steveevans3641]

Lot more corruption since they privatised the whole system ini! Wonder how that happened

[@ggs22364]

I agree. Not only is this bad but the actual teaching is awful and not worth the time let alone the domestic feeds.

[@josephhall9307]

More than half of my 100 classmates at UCL were resitting their exams. Most were international students from China. Tuition fees for the BSc are £37500 per annum.

[@missg300]

very disappointing but not surprising.the UK really is fcuked 👎

[@AdvocateOfJamaica]

£20,000+ per year for 3 years? Man, those parents' pockets are pretty deep.

[@user-sl6gq2zv3r]

You have no idea how poor this country is .. these people are not super rich it’s their middle class only . The rich one will send their kids to US to hang out with the rich

[@thalesan8790]

it's hilarious how cheap that is in America for a university education. Our top colleges are around 80-90k per year now

[@DonR-zb2cm]

Exactly wealthy asf! They make more money than the normal working class Brit

[@TL-ph5wg]

So Chinese international students are able to pass an English degree course barely able to speak the language as long as they pay.😊

[@iancoles1349]

Yes ask Swansea uni old school lectures it stunk.

[@Shankar-Bhaskar]

Yes, and Indian students as well, who are hardly any better.

[@mrboyban]

I'm a mature student with duo citizenship. Applied last year for Sheffield CS in clearing. They told me that the places were filled but there were places for international "fees" if I wish to pay for it. Disgraceful! ! !

[@Shankar-Bhaskar]

Greed is what it is.

[@kaminznanna]

The second university started charging fees is the second universities became businesses trying to maximise profits, and the government became loan sharks trying to maximise profits. Fees are too high and teacher salaries are too low, so we know where the money is going…

[@orangeppl]

Uhm, because universities don’t get enough funding so what do you expect. Follow the money.

[@GMac2776]

They're a business first and foremost, why would anyone be surprised by this?

[@underscore2002]

Surprisingly, The Times reported it as news. Basically, students who did not achieve the required grades will need to complete a one-year foundation course before being admitted. This course serves as a bridge, similar to a diploma, leading to undergraduate studies. Same in Australia, Canada or the United State. There's no need for an undercover team or investigation; the resources are available online. It's amusing that they added background music as though it's a cover-up story.

[@grimnir8872]

Probably because these students, despite failing the actual required grades, are effective paying their way into getting a position and robbing native people of a spot.

[@liberality]

A foundation course with a 100% pass rate. That offer is not available to British students. So, the working class misses out again.

[@Dropletsojoy]

​@@liberalityfoundation courses are available to British students - usually if you don't have the correct A-levels for a course

[@liberality]

@@Dropletsojoy Of course, that's a traditional route for mature students, but it used to require work. If the international students are being told there's a 100% chance of getting in, they are buying their places rather than earning them.

[@underscore2002]

@@liberality If you are willing to pay i am sure they won’t care if you are British. The agent suggested if the student is a native English speaker it’s near impossible to fail it. If the student is a British, then yes, it’s 100% passing rate.

[@AdaGeddon]

I'm not sure I see the problem, because they have to complete a year before going onto the degree course, right? So before they go onto the degree course they must need to be at the same standard. There are opportunities for native students in the same situation to do the same, just a different pathway.

[@lx1714]

As a someone who saw this first hand at a Russell Group uni I can say cheating is definitely not rife amongst this cohort. The university definitely does not turn a blind eye! Answers are definitely not circulated ahead of test time! The university valued academic rigour over money at all time!

[@lx1714]

Your jaw would hit the floor if you saw the levels of rigour!

[@b00gyman1]

@@lx1714 Sarcasm?​

[@andrejmrzel989]

Compare Foundation year to IB entry requirements fir Exeter.

[@silverstone0907]

Gone are the days where a university sole purpose was to educate. It’s a business now. Full stop.

[@Krilium]

Imagine if this country started taking care of its own citizens 🤯

[@giolag5593]

That's what you are missing. The excuse that was used to end up with this mess is that by turning universities into essentially private businesses, the taxpayers will have their cake and eat it. Meaning they would both save tax money from reducing public funding for universities and have a high standards higher education. People who criticised this as unrealistic were immediately labelled as "leftists" and/or "antigrowth" just because they foresaw that privatisation will ruin education... Surprise surprise!!!

[@DonR-zb2cm]

They used too. People with British passports got looked after but things have changed now

[@danielleardance5605]

I am one of those students and I am struggling a lot in my MSc. If I fail, I lose everything. I can't go back to my home country because it's unsafe for me.

[@nicholassimpson518]

Some very ill-informed comments on here. Not going to wheel out the 'r' word but some here are bordering on it. I have taught Chinese students on pre-master's courses at UK universities. Yes, some clearly struggle with English. However, subject knowledge is certainly not lacking and in fact, often exceeds that of home students. By the end of a decent pre-sessional course, most foreign students are pretty capable and by the end of master's courses at top universities such as these, are producing good quality work.

[@CR-og5ho]

Clueless, that isn't the issue here.

[@wr3eckeriv640]

That's incredibly bad if unis are admitting students that cant even speak english.

[@ConsumerWatchdogUK]

Government capped the feeds a decade ago. Inflation means that's a huge cut in income. Overseas students are used to subsidise local students, and keep the HE sector in business.

[@wangryan-u3g]

I am exactly a Shanghai international student, I declare that most of students can enter the G5 in UK has a quite good language skill , But In my previous school there are many students has a terrible grade but still enter the decent uni with paying a lot of money.I just wonder is there a big difference in tuition fees for students at home and abroad.The requirement of university to the students is different between the local students and the international students?or only Asian students???

[@amaury1264]

Foundation courses have been running since late 1990's. Doesn't say much that the media has only just cottoned onto this. The real issue is the effective privatisation of the universities, and the under-funding that followed. Capping UK fees is laudable and right but the issue is that this leaves a massive funding shortfall. International students fees make up that short fall ...

[@ravikumar9111]

Moreover, what is UK university degree ..its like a distance education a little lecture then all assignments..spending so much money is waste..

[@lewis123417]

No surprise weve seen a massive increase in foreign students coming in

[@meatlover9775]

There is a reciprocal system in many , if not all, countries. International students can study at and get degree from many highly prestigious Asian universities including Chinese top universities such as Peking University. None of the international university students passed the extensive entrance exams which local Chinese students have to go through and many international students can get degree even if they don't master Chinese language.

[@Ghostmanoftheapocalypse]

Its Because rich foreign students have to pay tuition upfront and there more likely to receive further "donations" from the students family wouldn't surprise me if there's a pay for grades going on with the foreign students that preform badly

[@wendozerwoo9844]

They only.pay the first year and it's usually 50,%

[@Shankar-Bhaskar]

This is true and very tragic for British students who work hard to get in to such unis. I know this because my dear friend, who had below average grades here in India, got admission in the University of Edinburgh and University of Glasgow only because as a non-eu international student he was paying three times the tuition fees that British and EU students would pay. These unis just want to make money and really don't care about the quality of students getting in. My friend told me that a Scottish friend of his who was a very good student couldn't get admission in the three Scottish Unis (St Andrews, Edinburgh, Glasgow) and had to go south of the Hadrian Wall and into England (an ignominy! ) to study at Lancaster because of this.

[@MrWeasle66]

Students still need to pass the foundation course, which align with the university direct entry criteria. ‘Guaranteed progression’ is only guaranteed if they meet the university standard of entry. On the foundation students are essentially studying an A level equivalent, focused on improving their English and relevant academic modules. Slightly misleading journalism.

[@leo_messi_89]

I absolutely agree I’m a home student applied for PhD for many universities and they give international students who have lower grades than me. UK education isn’t as solid as it used to be. Universities are corrupt to their core

[@bfsobudisv6478]

Don’t see a problem here. Point is it’s a foundation degree, students pay and study a whole year to be the same standard as year 1 students. It’s usually only available to foreign students or uk students with disruptions (medical, disadvantaged backgrounds ect) as it considers that the students aren’t at the same level as a/a* students but have the potential to do well in a degree. Thats it -simple. International students can join the standard degrees but many take foundation due to English language issues or differences in foreign education.

[@bfsobudisv6478]

Just to clarify i’m talking about foundation- not “international year one” i think theyre a little different and im not too knowledgeable on that. But foreign students often take the foundation course.

[@lx1714]

Yes as someone who saw this cohort 1st hand I can definitely say the attain the same academic level as standard undergrads by y2! Cheating is definitely not rife! Answers to multiple choice papers are definitely not circulated ahead of time! The bar on essays for failure is definitelty not lowered to a level that makes it impossible to fail!

[@User3749cvndhkcgk]

@@lx1714I don’t believe you

[@astronauticsspace9419]

I went to QMUL, and it was full of indians, russians and chinese students, including teaching staff. I didn't understand anything when teaching staff spoke English. I remember that one English student asked a question during the lecture, and the lecturer didn't understand his question. English students were shocked about that. I withdrew from my studies after ridiculous experience at QMUL. I also can't believe how this university is part of Russell Group University. They were so disorganised, from teaching staff to admission staff. They made sudden changes in course modules, and there were phd students who can't explain or answer questions. How come they do, phd? This is a serious problem but there is more serious problem which is skill misalignment between universities and industries. Uk universities do not prepare you for practical world. Companies do not care about theory, they care about practical skills. Universities in the UK really needs to update its education from scratch.

[@user-bu9nb8wr6e]

I wonder if Sunaks father in law has any investment?

[@RB-jq6gh]

That big money game run by foreign entities gives them the power in that country (uk)with their students being the drivers.

[@User3749cvndhkcgk]

Disgraceful & I hope Paul Golding and the millions of Britain First supporters worldwide protest about this!

[@RB-jq6gh]

In Glasgow there's foreign student accommodation everywhere..loads of them constructed by Asian financiers ..the students are like human electrical sub stations acting as the currency for the businessmen & their influence over the City.

[@User3749cvndhkcgk]

Tell us more about…. What do you mean?

[@Rauser-d8v]

😅I finally realise why the internet says the Brits are so t arrogant. If you think they can't speak English, it's a problem with IELTS. Not every family can afford the fee for international high school about 3Years to study Alevel, AP and iB. They have achieved excellence in their high schools but not a qualification recognised by UK universities, so they have to waste a year in foundation, come on, who wont study Alevel, it is quite easy especially for the Chinese college entrance exam and ib😅

[@erikgood732]

Get away! Yet another story of British corruption? Britain is starting to resemble a banana republic. Which is a bit ironic, as we’re usually the first to criticise.

[@sarahjames927]

UK sounding like America 😂. Welcome to modern education UK

[@SED909-yc7tj]

Most British students are terrible at exams; oh wait, do we even attend lectures or know what will be tested in the exams? It's OK; I learned these while I was in A level. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought the exam was tomorrow!

[@superflatjellyfish]

I don't see the problem. The government hasn't increased tuition fees in real terms in over a decade and obviously the School's base costs go up. So effectively international students are subsidising domestic students and in turn subsidising the government

[@cup1966wow]

Nor should they increase tuition fees. The standard in universities is poor. Also they made so much money when it was raised to 9000 in 2012, buildings were popping up everywhere. Universities are happy to rip people off, until they can prove they offer value, no it shouldn't go up.

[@billykimbah2528]

Im british,wish i could afford to go to university

[@Dropletsojoy]

You can tho, it's called student loans ...

[@billykimbah2528]

@@Dropletsojoy nope had bad credit before i turned 16

[@Dropletsojoy]

@@billykimbah2528 oh no ! What did you do? But wait I had no credit score when I got student loans so?

[@harrydiv321]

@@billykimbah2528 i dont think they even check your credit score ?

[@andrejmrzel989]

Compare Foundation year to IB entry requirements for Exeter. And learn first how hard is to get 38 points in IB compared to A levels and "Foundation year".

[@deew103]

Mood

[@JerryJanoff]

Wow. For Americans, £25,000 is much cheaper many American Universities . So eaiser to get in and pay less

[@giolag5593]

We have asked universities to operate as businesses and have cut their funding substantially...Surprise surprise thats how the business model works, if you don't like it start funding them properly again

[@bertrandtheApostle7343]

Has it come to this point? Oh dear!

[@iconoclast2679]

@erikgood732: Corruption has always been deeply entrenched in the UK. It's one of the most successful exports. How do you think all those amenities that you enjoy are financed? What exactly do you think "the city" does to make money? A country with no viable natural resources has to steal to get by, why do you think the infrastructure is crumbling, including the health service? The country has run out of countries to exploit, welcome to the future of the UK, the Potato republic.

[@bfsobudisv6478]

Yeah maybe it’s corruption but in truth it’s a win win for all, unis get payed more and they can offer foundation degrees, students in foundation degrees from uk or from foreign countries (more likely) have to study an extra year to be up to standard otherwise they cannot continue - it’s actually fair, even if it can be considered corruption

[@MCNOISE666]

No viable natural resources?

[@iconoclast2679]

@@MCNOISE666 There Is the North Sea, but all the oil majors are pulling out or have pulled out. The oil is too expensive and hazardous to recover. Apart from that, what other natural resources does the UK have that the rest of the world is gagging for?

[@MCNOISE666]

@@iconoclast2679 1) corruption is EVERYWHERE, just to different degrees. You make it sound like the UK is the worst. 2) I'm not interested in your anti-UK opinions - times have changed & it's now important to sh!t on your anti-UK stance & in fact to come after the haters. 3) 400 years worth of coal for us to use, for ourselves. 4) World class knowledge is a resource in itself.

[@iconoclast2679]

@@MCNOISE666 The facts don't care about your feelings. Opinions are free, facts are priceless...

[@giolag5593]

We have accepted the lie that we can have our cake and eat it. Meaning that we can both "save" taxpayers money and maintain high standards by essentially privatising higher education. We have expected universities to act like businesses just like in the US, Australia etc and that's exactly what they did. Academic excellence and integrity require public money and control to avoid having to recruit students based on their bank accounts. People who criticised the privatisation of higher education were immediately labelled and dismissed as "leftists" and/or "antigrowth" just because they foresaw that it will ruin higher education... Surprise surprise it has ruined it!!!

[@RichardEnglander]

At every level natives are being shafted. Here it is harder for us to get into uni, and then why there are such struggles getting student accommodation. Treacherous!

[@user-sl6gq2zv3r]

Uk is super poor nation . 80% students get students loans with such cheap school fees . No worry most rich won’t come here , they will go US . Uk ‘s 3rd world facilities only attracts middle class international students.

[@eviltaylor1]

Let me guess, profit driven and now so messed up they can't survive without continuing and all done under the guise of making things fairer for young Brit's?

[@Sanghowala]

Degrees are worthless nowadays

[@foziaakhtar6230]

Sorry but you are late. This is happening from more than 20 years now.

[@Billy67]

Cash for courses, cash for questions. That's the name of the game here in the UK. One leads by example, and the WEF Quislings in Parliament certainly earn their money.

[@gracelove886]

This is the next scandal to come about. A .ot of the Chinese students level of spoken English is not good at all, in fact,likely good as ESOL.

[@SusanMBux]

Uk colleges are just as bad... I feel for the teachers expected to be magicians and pass students.

[@andrenewman4052]

Not knew, jus wondering whats bring the buisness accept of brit universities to light, hope torries not upping fees again, thought when we went upto to 9k a yr that would reduce the number.

[@kathrynjenkins9183]

I noticed some local immigrants, just come to U.K. and straight onto Masters Degrees and when I ask them, they say it has cost £18,000 plus. No idea how they can study either with looking after their kids and tiny babies 24/7, superhuman!

[@Dropletsojoy]

I'm sure that only one member of the family studies right ? The other member looks after the kids

[@kathrynjenkins9183]

@@Dropletsojoy No, she is there pretty much 99% of the time on her own doing it all. Hubby shows up occasionally on the odd weekends.

[@castellanos6436]

Immigrant still have the classic mentality of sacrificing for a better future. Something which most westerns have lost a long time ago including the British. I know some immigrants who basically have no lives in order to sustain themselves.

[@kathrynjenkins9183]

​please don’t speak for me thank you, I know all about sacrifice and sheer hard graft, since I was a child! I am not an immigrant and would have given everything to have done my Masters but there were restrictions on me being a British citizen with no funds. Obviously didn’t come into this world with a silver spoon in my mouth but also won’t be conned to pay over the odds either.

[@scottyk200]

Non-story. Presented like it’s the coup of the century. Waste of time. Loads of overseas students gain entry to undergraduate programmes via foundation courses or international year-ones. Some don’t progress to the full degree, and even if they do, they can still fail their degree, or get a third. Caveat Emptor. Try doing some proper journalism, focusing on the real problems besetting this country. Shame on you.

[@victornewman9904]

It's a scam.

[@ec3076]

As long as the universities dont offend the currently fashionable minorities, they can do what they want.

[@EthanZoid]

Ah a one stop video for racism

[@171reko]

I one hundred per cent agree with this video! As a person with high grades who got into a master's degree at LSE last year, I couldn't attend due to high fees. 40k pounds a year (dorm and tuition) just doesn't make sense if you are from the third world. HOWEVER I feel that they should do the opposite. Higher merit for international students and the same fee as UK home students. If internationals pay the same as UK students, it doesn't matter who studies there. They can limit the number of international students then and have the same advantage. Like even as a person who due to recent COVID events doesn't have the same amount of money as his peers any more (We were upper-middle-class now near middle) It is sad and depressing seeing dumber kids with richer parents get into places through consultants. Do I blame the students? not at all, if I was still relatively in good income I would have done the same. However, I do blame the system. I have personally changed my mind about attending university in the UK even though I had offers from major Russel groups unis there (other than Oxford and Cambridge). It feels like a waste of money in the current climate when you have places like KU Leuven and the University of Ghent basically being toe to toe with some Russel Group unis (In the middle) Now do I think this happens at the cream of the group unis? (High Russel like top 8?) Not really. Oxford, LSE, Cambridge, Imperial, and UOE still have high standards and still require a high 2:1 at least. Some degrees only want a first. However places like Kings College, UCL, and UOM? very easy to get into if you know consultants for a master's for certain degrees. Though lets be fair here, the conservative government wants those international students too. The international students give nearly 29 billion pounds a year to the UK. So while this government might posture itself as a immigrant/international student hating group, it very much needs them.

[@Numberdescriptionund]

Will they assure passing then I will join

[@jimsimpson1006]

Well, I never!

[@InternationalDurian]

Meanwhile in the US, international students pay higher fees AND get admitted at a lower rate. At least it's only true for unis comparative to or better than Exeter and Durham such as Buffalo, Delaware, Pittsburg, etc.

[@xinma6034]

We are rich we are boss you take our money then don’t talk . Uk uni can buy anyway hahaha just a rubbish paper

[@hannahperlotto139]

What NEXT!????

[@shellingout]

Been going on decades and then not showing up for class they work all hours and eventually disappearing into the black economy, overstaying student and visitor visa holders mostly Asian been exploiting the system.