Homage Watch Brands Ranked Best To Worst: Pagani, San Martin, Islander, WMT, Seiko, Steinhart & More

In this month's #WatchTalk episode, I'm once again joined by Marc Frankel of Long Island Watch for a chat featuring his expert engineering insight, reactions, and opinion on the most popular homage watch brands. We rank them from best to worst, and identify the eight key types of homage watch, as well as discussing what defines a homage watch, which ones we recommend, which we'd personally buy, those we avoid, and why. In this video, we take a look at a variety of watch brands including Pagani, San Martin, Islander, WMT, Invicta, Dan Henry, Steinhart, Squale, Seiko, Casio, and more. What do you think about homage brands, and what defines them? Please share in the comments!
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Thank you for watching The Urban Gentry channel, home of the #wristwatchcheck and #seikosaturday! Check out my other videos for more watch and lifestyle content.
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[@batchwatches]

Great video educational right from the start! I had no idea about the UG and the PP Ellipse. Really entertaining and a fun topic 🙌

[@theurbangentry]

Thank you so much, that means a lot to me to hear that. If you want to find out more about the UG White Shadow and in case you missed it, here you go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5W2hnRmf8eeesk Onwards, upwards and best regards! TGV

[@batchwatches]

Thank you 🙌 I will check it out I confess I have already been on Chrono 24 after this 😅

[@skistrycharski6999]

Y’all R so funnel & informational, that coming from budget watch collector ‼️🥴😎

[@dadandvideogames]

I enjoy Pagani and Steeldive for being able to enjoy designs I'd never be able to access or, yes, afford. As a newer watch collector who initially fell in love with Casio, they've been awesome for me. Such terrific value, and a great opportunity to learn history. My Steeldive Captain Willard homage is one of my absolute favorite watches.

[@borislavblagoev14]

Same here. I have Steeldive SD1953 and absolutely love it. I'll never own the Rolex Submariner because it cost more than mine and my girlfriend cars. But to get just the touch of experience for a 100€ is enough for me. It doesn't says Rolex on the dial, and Rolex never lost me as client because of it, because I never was in the first place, and the only people that can see what you wearing is other enthusiasts like us. It gives me nice feeling because it well made and it has mechanical Seiko nh35 movement.

[@mema4922]

Stick with casios

[@PocketUau]

I've tried two Pagani watches and I'm satisfied. It's mostly a good way of trying on the look of a more costly watch over time. When you try on a Speedy at the boutique you don't get to explore every nuance and light play of the case design. If you can find a decent homage watch, you'll be able to experiment for as long as you wish.

[@codrupaun8070]

Same here with my Tuna and Willard Steeldive homages. Absolutely amazing, for 80-90 USD and NOT only.

[@jankay8569]

Fake

[@jtsnowman66]

San Martin and Steeldive are excellent quality watches and both have original designs available as well.

[@codrupaun8070]

Quite right. I own 2 Steeldives (Tuna and Willard homages). Quality is outstanding: 316L steel, saphire, NH35 movement, perfect alignments, screw down crown, excellent straps or bracelet - everything for around 87 USD!! No doubt that Steinhart offers very good quality as well, but the price difference...................

[@jb678901]

@@codrupaun8070 I'd add Cronos, Borman, Thorn, and Seestern/Sugess to the list. As well, Addiesdive seems a close sister brand to Steeldive and is often priced just below SD.

[@securitybase3430]

Don't forget the Loreo Submarino Diver.

[@mattys1467]

I ended up having to watch this over a few sittings. It was fascinating to see how you broke a complex and controversial issue into constitute parts. No-one has really tried to do that. For me, I think the moonlighting category actually encompasses a majority of the brands discussed. Look at San Martin as an example, they have moved into original design in a similar path as Longislandwatch. I think it is a relatively easily understood route. Start off with homages, build a baseline of quality and reliability. Build and establish your business and then move into more original designs.

[@DavidDatura]

Interesting point, that didn’t occur to me 🤔

[@akastenas]

Great comment that is true.

[@brianmsahin]

Excellent video gents! I began my watch journey as a bit of a snob. Not only would I not buy digital, I wouldn't buy quartz analogue. No longer. My first watches were Seiko classics, Orient, Tissot, Longines and my most expensive, my Omega Seamaster. Now, I have Casio, G-Shock, microbrands AND I got some Ali Express watches including a Heimdallr Monster NH36, with a red dial and sapphire crystal, I have the original but Seiko never made red. Same with Tuna, as well as the original I have yellow dial Steeldive Tuna as Seiko never made the colour either. Both suitable for diving, I tried both. Also a Pagani. I bought the plastic Mission to Uranus Moonswatch as a summer watch, I got a blue wrist, a lost pusher, scratched glass, frayed strap. Ended up getting my money back only because of the blue wrist. They would have blamed me for the other things. I felt a bit foolish having bought it, like an adult wearing a child's watch. So...I got the stainless steel Pagani version with sapphire crystal, solid link bracelet, milled clasp, Seiko VK63 mecaquartz movement, for around $100 including import tax etc. It's 100 times better for less than half the price and you don't feel like an idiot wearing it. It's not a clone, because it's on a much higher level of quality than the plastic original. I have gone from watch snob to real watch enthusiast who never turns his nose up to quality commensurate with price. The two divers are different because Seiko never made the colours, or put sapphire on them come to think of it. Lol. Plus as Seiko have no problem selling their movements to these firms it gives them more acceptability.

[@johnholkham2420]

I’ve brought several San Martins which could be classed as Tudor homages of the BB, they actually are better to wear as slimmer than the original. The finish and bracket much better than Seiko at £500 - £750 mark. The movement fitter are the ETA clone called the PT5000 which have all been under + or - 5 sec . Obviously no match for an original Tudor but if you want the look without the outlay.

[@RubbelisPro]

I actually opt for the San Martin's utilizing Seiko movements as it makes them that much easier to service and enjoy long-term. Yeah, you're not getting the accuracy of the swiss movement clones, but much cheaper to fix should any issues occur out of warranty. GREAT watches all around.

[@akastenas]

Could not agree more. At this point they are offering good value. Don't know how long this would last however.

[@paulvon2378]

buy a Tudor mate

[@verynormalman]

Every time you check the time, it chips away at your internal worth. As the shampoo says "you're not worth it"!

[@that_which_is_not]

Have a Steeldive and a San Martin, both incredible. Have lots of other non homage watches, my Steeldive and San Martin however are better made than some of my non homage watches!

[@brandonlanois1734]

I just bought a Skmei Casioak homage lol.

[@Horizontalvertigo]

@@brandonlanois1734 Ironically I suppose?

[@brandonlanois1734]

@@Horizontalvertigo yep

[@Boblw56]

I have an Addiesdive bronze Willard that’s better than the original for $145

[@martinmoore1821]

TGV and Marc. I’ve unloaded the luxury brands in my collection in favor of the San Martins and Orient Stars because they make excellent watches. Even Proxima are very acceptable. And I’m happy with performance and looks of all of them. Great video. You guys need your own show. So much fun!!

[@laurencehogg6010]

Great comment. I've also relatively recently discovered Baltany - beautiful and very well made watches.

[@007Chancellor]

Happy that Steinhart showed well on your ranking. I absolutely love the style (copied or not), quality and affordability of their line.

[@permabear6025]

I have two, think they’re terrific value overall but misalignment seems to be quite common. Not that anyone else notices…

[@staceygram5555]

Seem to hold their value relatively well, too, surpricingly. Sold both of mine after 5 or so years of ownership. Lost about $70-$80 on the diver, but gained about the same on the (discontinued) pilot. So basically rented two watches for 5 years for free. Not bad for such cheap watches.

[@CyberBeep_kenshi]

Got one as well, no issues whatsoever. my favourite watch

[@thetruebatman4632]

Mark’s headphone/microphone combo KILLED me 😂 that’s just an awesome engineer making awesome engineer decisions.

[@patrickhartmann1540]

Appreciate the candid conversation on this topic. Own Rolex and Tudor clomages by San Martin and Pagani. All are fun to wear and well done. For me, they aren’t special in the way my other watches are, but they do make fun beaters.

[@davisantos3431]

Hey TGV, constructive criticism if you're gonna read it: I find it contradictory that you always talk about how you can't judge a watch you've never experienced, but here you're doing exactly that. Some PD watches go for around $60. What's the worst that could happen if you bought one of them to try out? If you actually look into it, you're gonna realize that most people don't have any issues with them, and the ones who do are covered by buyer protection anyway. I also find it rather strange that you have a video called "why the invicta pro diver is the best watch under $100", but rates chinese brands so low even when they're substantially better in every way aside from brand history. Plus, there are a lot of original designs from Chinese brands as well. I think you're missing out on a lot of great stuff!

[@laurencehogg6010]

Agreed. I'm not sure what the problem is with these watches but you're right - it's starting to look like ignorance (which is something I never thought I'd say about this channel).

[@niksoncutts]

I never thought I'd hear TGV say the words "Pagani Design", "San Martin", and "Steeldive"! The Steeldive SD1970 is really good, I have it and it's awesome value for money. I have a Seiko King Turtle and I'd say it holds up pretty well against it. Not as good, of course, but it's close, and at around $75-90 it's not even in the same ballpark price wise.

[@unwokeneuropean3590]

San Martin is probably the king of Ali Express.

[@christopherjohnson4276]

I have the PD1701 Mission to Alaska. For $80, amazing. Today, my Steeldive SD1970 arrived. Stunning for $74. Value for FUN. (Edit: The lume on the SD1970 is ridiculous. Ridiculously good.)

[@ianaguiarsouza]

Great conversation! I have a pagani (paul newman homage), it absolutely rocks. I use daily to time my swim workouts

[@heikowallauer]

Good evening TGV! Looking forward for this video! It's always a treat for us viewers when you and Marc are having a conversation on watch topics. Best regards!

[@theurbangentry]

Evening Heiko! Enjoy and chin chin 🥂😎 Thank you as always. Best regards to you too! T.

[@Kittyland123]

Thank you so much TGV for another wonderful discussion with Mark! I really enjoyed your perspectives and logic behind your watch rating discussion! I also really enjoyed your openminded perspective and willness to explore any brand and evaluate it deeply no matter the price or class! Stay healthy and wonderful as always! (Nick L) 🦖🦖🦖🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@AvgJoeWatchReviews]

TGV and Marc… really enjoyed the video chaps. The transparency and the good humor with Marc and his brand was refreshing. Marc is such a humble and real guy. TGV, your deep dive scoring system was the most comprehensive way of looking at homages. I never even considered some of your points. Learned a bunch. Thanks guys.

[@theurbangentry]

🙌🙌🙌 Thank you so much Joe, you are kind and considerate as always. Have a great rest of your week. Best regards, TGV

[@mpmcd81]

I own an Islanderjust and it’s essentially all I wear. It is where I draw the line. It looks like the DJ but not really. The case is similar but REALLY not quite. Similar personality, no doubt. But some definite qualities all of its own. Pagani’s new speedmaster homage is well done. Like an Omega in DNA but gone off in a totally different direction. Quartz movement (which I prefer), better water resistance, domed sapphire crystal, no easily identifiable parts of the Omega’s markings except for the case layout and lugs. This is an entirely different offering like a Bulova Lunar Pilot. This is the direction I would like to see them take their brand.

[@poulwinther]

Well, the various San Martin's of the world also do homages of vintage watches that we couldn't possibly buy (and only absolute watch geeks would recognize anyway) so I'd have to place those higher than 2 but otherwise I more or less agree.

[@SantiagoAyoso]

I try different china brands but for me definitely Steeldive and Cadisen are the best. I 100% recommend

[@syahrulk9294]

do you think steeldive and addiesdive are related? because I don't have enough money, so I plan to buy a submarine model addiesdive

[@akastenas]

​@@syahrulk9294Yes they have same suppliers in some cases offices located in same city.

[@NotThatOneThisOne]

I think there's a difference between homage brands referencing mass produced brands and referencing hand built/finished luxury watches. One's using modern tools to reduce margins, the other is taking the proverbial urine. Certainly makes me feel better about my Steeldive 1970, which is better than pretty much any Seiko at five times the price.

[@bigdavedave9865]

I have to say, the way Mark dealt with the situation with the podcast you mentioned was very dignified. There is a man who doesn’t put the opinions of others above his own 👌😎

[@jeroennishikigoi1164]

I love my PD’s! Also mine citizen, casio, seiko’s and so on. First i didnt tought id like that and that they are bad. But i fell in love after a explorer hommage. My speedy hommages are amazing!

[@Zeratsu]

this video feels so wholesome and warm, we call this kinda stuff "lampovo" from the word lamp. Like incandescent lamp with warm yellow light that gives you comfort and you talking with your friends this whole thing is really wholesome, that's what it is!

[@jarrettbullivant5522]

The watches I like are the 'clomages' (collage) rather than the homage. I think this could have been another category 😉I would define it in three different ways with three San Martin watches. Firstly, putting together different features from a range of watches to form a new variant (Rolex 39mm Explorer but with submariner dial and boxed sapphire SN20G). Second, sympathetically modernise a vintage watch with new materials ( Rolex 5517, boxed sapphire and ceramic bezel insert, SN006G). Thirdly, fix what watch enthusiasts don't like about a particular model, (Tudor Pepsi GMT which is too big 41 x 15, SN0109 40 x 13) or (Tudor 42mm Pelagos which is too big, 42 x 15, SN0121G 39 x 13, no helium escape valve). Respectable watch companies do this a lot. For instance, the Omega pre-bond was a Rolex Submariner in an intergrated bracelet case. You also mentioned the moonwatch as an original design. Try googling Rodania Geometer than appears to have first been introduced in 1954. Uncanny I would say.

[@tiemenstaal]

Appreciate you both. I've seen some watch reviewers with an inexplicable dislike for homages, something I don't understand. They have a place in my collection to represent pieces that I will never own either due to cost or sheer availability. San Martin and Steinhart are the quality sweet spot for me personally, I couldn't get passed the Pagani and Steeldive quality. The bracelet is what gives a cheap watch away. That said, San Martin has been impressing lately. Never heard of WMT before but I appreciate learning about them!

[@johnbonanni1731]

Its always great seeing the great collaboration of you... TGV, Marc, and Hugo. As a watch collector I personally would buy a watch that is widely recognized. Cheers!

[@johnwick860]

Top 3 for me have always been Cronos, San Martin & Steinhart... great value watches

[@Ott0vonBismarck]

What do you think about the Cronos l6005 or alternatively the l6015?

[@dannyg6592]

Good episode. I have a Pagani Daytona homage and a Pagani Speedmaster homage in my collection. They are both flawless and a pleasure to own and wear. I also have a San Martin 1016 Explorer homage that cost three times the price of either Pagani. The San Martin has problems with the movement, lume, caseback and clasp that have all detracted from my ownership experience.

[@VMIyanks04]

Nothing like a great bond-like music intro! Love that! Harkens back to a better time! Thanks for the discussion! Mark mentioned Zelos and NTH as “better microbrands” but according to the final scoring, that would put them with Pagani in category 5. I would think they should rank a little higher since they are original designs but influenced by heritage styling, vs just straight copies, no? Especially since they’re not even moonlighting like category.

[@CyberBeep_kenshi]

I own a Steinhart Ocean one 39mm watch, one of their premium versions. it is easily my favorite watch. Impeccably build.

[@jayjayhooksch1]

How's the bracelet and cyclops? The bracelet on my Steinhart Ocean 1 ceramic 42mm feels antiquated compared to what these Chinese companies are pumping out with options like polished center links, glidelock systems, better tapering. I like that a lot of them offer sapphire casebacks too. Don't get me wrong, my Steinhart bracelet and case is ok and doesn't feel cheap, but I feel like it gets left in the dust by watches a quarter to a third of their price. My cyclops was so bad I had to pop it off. The Chinese brands' cyclops look nicer, though I won't have had one in hand for a few more weeks to actually compare to my Rolex cyclops.

[@donquxiote7653]

Love my Pagani. Can't wait to get another!

[@wngimageanddesign9546]

There is nothing wrong with Pagani Design. Their value, build quality, and design are brilliant. Never been scammed, had excellent customer service, and now able to enjoy iconic watch styles that I can no longer afford since my entire Swiss watch collection was stolen by my ex-wife. The huge asset loss and trauma caused me to not wear a watch for a decade. Thank heavens for discovering Pagani Design to rekindle my passion for watches this year. I may have lost my Omegas and Rolexes, and numerous boutique marques, but now able to wear an Omega homage today, and be impressed for what it is. My PD-1685 Omega Seamaster 300M homage looks and feels amazing.

[@teenoso4069]

Like or loathe the advantage of Pagani is their watches are worn. Snobbery aside, Pagani produce a decent worth for the price for those on a budget. Get the look and feel of a Rolex today for 1/100th of the price. Clothes, shoes, fragrances, bags, watches - these issues have been there for a long time.

[@violinmke]

Pagani has been getting better. Their version 3 of the Speedy I bought and is nice.

[@steven631764]

So much good info on watches at the macro level from 2 guys who really know their stuff ❤

[@S-Ltd1000]

My experience of Pagani is not great but some people swear by them. I dabbled in homages for a while but always ended up selling them on with the exception of two San Martins I own. One is a sub homage and the other is their interpretation of the vintage Bond Rolex. Both are very well made and at under £200 each they are worth hanging on to.

[@ajmarion]

anyone know who that podcast they were talking about was? Mark you're the man!

[@edteach3r]

Excellent video, as always, gentlemen. I have come close to buying Pagani, San Martin, Steeldive and Seestern on a few occasions, but have never been able to pull the trigger. Nonetheless, I love homage watches, most notably my Tudor Heritage Ranger and Heuer Autavia. In terms of affordable watches, Squale and Islander are at the top of my list as both offer something different and punch far above their price. Islander #3 is making its way to me right now! 😊

[@thewaywelive2775]

It actually hurts a bit, hearing you dogging on Pagani and San Martin like that. Especially when you have so little experience with them. San Martin actually tries to make their own models and Pagani have done so too to a lesser extent, though. Getting into watches they are a great way to try different styles for not that much money before you buy the real thing. This is how I found out that I'm just not into watches above 40mm. That would have been an expensive endeavor had those brands not existed. It's also hard to hear you talk about QC issues (which are actually quite rare), when I know you've both seen misalignment from Seiko on watches far more expensive than any of the offerings from Pagani and San Martin.

[@laurencehogg6010]

I agree with this strongly. I left a similar comment but this one is tighter than mine and you've also very respectfully said how the vid made you feel. I'm not sure how much longer TUG can go on ignoring a set of brands so many of us appreciate before the channel's credibility is called into question. Case in point is the recent 'best affordable divers' video absent of any Chinese brands - which in 2023 is not credible as an advisory video imo. Take care.

[@RJ-cq8dd]

TGV you always say don't judge what you haven't held in your hands. I have handled many Aliexpress watches and none had debris on the dial and almost none had QC issues.

[@theurbangentry]

Trust me, I only speak from personal experience, unless stated in the video of course. You obviously had better luck than me. Thank you RJ, onwards and upwards! Best regards, TGV

[@laurencehogg6010]

I think time may be a factor here? Just 5 short years ago, ali express watches generally were much poorer than they are now. In fact the progress they've made in the last 5 years is really very surprising and now for some - Baltany and San Martin are the obvious ones - you'll struggle to find a better watch anywhere under 1k.

[@davidbellamy1403]

This was definitely a fascinating video by two of my favorite YTIs. I very seldom watch 15 minute videos. I just don’t have the time, but this one intrigued me and I’m glad I watched it. I’ll start by saying that I watched many of both of your videos in the early days of my collecting and you both helped educate me and to influence my tastes in this hobby, so thanks to both of you for helping me to get started. I’ve also heard from many other people with similar experience with each of you. You’ve done a great deal to encourage people in this hobby and you should be proud. I really liked the way you broke this down into the various categories and rated them. Obviously well thought out Tristano. As for my own choices, I’m pretty much in line with with both of you, I draw the line at fakes and have softened by stance on homage is over the years And have come to the same conclusion that Mark mentioned, “Let’s face, it all watches are homages to some extent.” I’ve been tempted a few times to buy complete homages to more expensive watches beyond my budget limits, but I’ve come to realize that every time I look at that watch, I’ll be thinking, “I wish it were…“. Thanks again to both of you for a very interesting well thought out and well produced piece.

[@mikeg6008]

I like the homages that make changes in colors, dials, etc. that the original never released. That's where Mark made his mark giving us things Seiko would never make.

[@dmt191105]

I have Pagani,Seestern, Chronos, Squale (2014) with a 2824-2 running +3sec/day. I have Rolex,Tudor, Seiko and other micro brands. I still believe that buy what you like period doesn’t matter homage, replica or real thing.

[@TheFlyrodder68]

I appreciate the transparency and honesty of both of you guys.

[@amankozha9778]

Great Intro, As Always! Amazing to see the team back in the Game!

[@frankanconia2969]

The first automatic watch I bought was a Revue Thommen diver. I liked the look of the Rolex submariner, but could not afford it, and the RT diver looks just like it from across the room, so I bought it (severely discounted). It has a Sellita SW200 movement and actually keeps better time than my Tudor and Hamilton both of which have ETA movements. Given what I now know about watches, I wouldn't buy the RT again, but I have to admit that I still enjoy wearing it on occasion.

[@GPatrolUte]

Hey boys, it’s too easy to chuck the Chinese (did I say that) into the homage basket yet bang on about how tuff it is the start a watch brand, movement restrictions, materials, QC dadadada It’s becoming an old chestnut but We alllllllll have to live within our means and we all love watches. I’m sure you know what I mean. BTW I like Pagani and Seiko equally at the sub $1K USD. Here’s a question… why do Seiko put mineral (hardilex) into sub $1500 watches and Pagani installs Saphire crystals? You may see why on some models I’m torn. Love your work. Cheers Mickpw.

[@TopTierTicker]

The GOATs are back! Quite a juicy episode this one fellas. Like you said T, every single brand sits somewhere different on the scale. For me brands like Baltic, Lorier and Dan H do things correctly, customer service, point of sale, quality control etc. That's what separates them from the Paganis. Throw in a couple of original design cues or even just a combination of different iconic watch design cues, winner winner.

[@Avigazed]

Thank you Gentlemen. That was immensely interesting. I wasn't even interested in watch collecting, when I came across The Urban Gentry. I was looking for information about a Seiko SKX, and why they were so well known. And now I just love listening to these guys talk about watches. The knowledge and history is so fascinating. Thanks TGV I always learn something from these. 👍

[@vktravellog1242]

Just in time for another marc video! Man I watched all the old episodes twice already so it was great to see this!

[@boldmeregarden637]

I started buying Ali-X watches because i love watches and got fed up of changing batteries on my quartz watches ever April / October clock change. Genuine Seiko NH35 movements with Sapphire glass and screw down crowns for under £80 in most cases. Not had a problem with any of them and once i change the straps on few ( there are a lot of very similar Oyster style cases with different dials) they start have their own personalities. My Pagani Explorer one homage improved so much when i put a black leather strap on it. Tempted by a PD Airking homage using probably the same case as the explorer for £42 delivered (using some Ali-X coins).

[@davidmichienzi101]

Really loving the intro TGV, your grandfather looked like a real Gentleman. Still inspiring you and the Gentry to this day 😊

[@dayvee66sevelka19]

I've always wanted a true flyback manual chronograph. So I just pulled the trigger on the Sugess homage of the Blancpain Air Command pilot watch. For 400 CAD it's the most I've ever spent on a watch. It's one of the best copies and has very positive reviews from everyone that's reviewed it I could never afford the 15,000$ for the original. I'm totally happy with this purchase and am greatfull for some of these homages. When the homage is built sloppily and with questionable movements that's when i would not consider buying one. Thanks for your informative videos. I've been a fan for at least 6 years.

[@SpaceG95]

I just bought my first automatic watch, an Aragon Dive Master 4 EVO. And it's amazing. I would really love to hear either one of your opinions on "affordable" brands like Aragon and Deep Blue. I understand that they make "big" watches, but I would like to hear what you guys think of the quality. Hopefully you guys get to read and respond.

[@rafaelribeiro404]

I would argue that a PD is way more value than a steinhart, not in build quality of course, but I think it makes much more sense to spend 100$ on a homage than nearly 500$. If you add just a little bit more you can get way more interesting watches.

[@wallytuber]

Value is a relative thing. Why buy anything nicer when you can get it cheaper? Personally I'll pay twice or three times the price of a Pagani for the better quality whereas some people will pay 20 or 30 times the price. Pagani isn't even the bottom brand in price just the most popular.

[@turbyoulance]

Great fun video. I wonder if for charity there will ever be a competition to make the most accurate Frankenstein homage collaboration. Is there a link to your friend in Blues' U Tube channel and his invention's at all ?

[@alyandjake9090]

Love the videos you make with mark. Amazing job!

[@monstrok]

Hugo's ego is magnificent!

[@jazzman5598]

Question: Other than Christopher Ward & Doxa, what other brands used an offset at the 9:00 for the name placement on the dial? Great vid! Thanks

[@neilziesing7761]

I go with an homage in situations where the rarity of the original makes it highly unlikely that I could find or afford the original. For example, San Martin makes a watch which captures the essence of the James Bond, Dr. No, big crown sub. Now, San Martin offer a sapphire crystal and a ceramic bezel, which is a nice upgrade. Also no one will mistake the San Martin for the original Bond sub. So in this instance, $450k vs $300 is good reason to choose the homage.

[@jamesgregory2918]

Why though? No one is going to think it’s the real deal, so who are you trying to kid? Do you own legit stuff too?

[@kingtaj]

For me, the ethical choices and the morality can be captured in one concept executed with honesty: Transparency. That is the key. Make a copy, make a variant, but just tell me what it is and how you do it, and I can respect it (and probably buy it).

[@Messier31NGC224]

Great video, entertaining, and educational as always! I agree with Mark on what degree of homage I'm okay with. I don't like blatant copies, I prefer when there's enough changes to make it unique. My isl-20 and isl-38 are good examples. The diver looks similar to the skx, but has many upgrades and design tweaks. The Brookville also has many differences from a datejust (case size, case shape and finishing, no cyclops, display case back.)

[@martsec9330]

I love those Engineer stories too hahah. It's nice to hear the nitty gritty of watches and their design sometimes

[@bankssewell2463]

I was super excited to watch this video! I thoroughly enjoyed the process of talking it through from a business aspect and design aspect. I’ve had a Pagani it was the BB Ceramic homage, it felt cheap and lightweight on wrist, so I sold it to a buddy who didn’t care as much😂. I do own both a Steeldive and San Martin and believe they showcase very good value for money. As someone who isn’t planning to own a Submariner or Speedmaster ‘57 I enjoy both of those watches because from $75-$400 I’m fine with paying for pretty good brushing and good lume. I’m a lume enthusiast, I pretty much won’t keep a watch that doesn’t have at least decent lume. I enjoy that I just have a handsome watch on my wrist. I can’t say enough good things about my San Martin maroon dial Speedmaster’57 it’s a handsome piece. Although it’s taken some get used too since it’s my first hand wind movement in my collection. Anyways Thanks TGV and Mark!!!

[@TheShane209]

I just was rewatching a older watch talk. I’m very excited for this! Thankyou guys again, now I don’t have to listen to talk radio haha.

[@GeeMood]

Great vid guys! Always got the best content when ya'll team up for one of these episodes. One thing regarding Islander, in the beginning, wasn't he making Islander watches that were like the recently DISCONTINUED SKX? I mean, he wasn't homaging a watch that was cheap and readily available anymore. Seiko discontinued it and the prices started to rise. SKX was never my thing, so I wouldn't have bought it or an Islander that was homaging it, but Islander's Northport & Port Jeff are definitely on my to buy list. But haters gonna hate, so F 'em.

[@ErikL727]

Yes, that's how I remember it. SKX was discontinued and Marc had enough infrastructure there within his own supplier list to make entire watches with UPGRADED features that Seiko refused to give us. I certainly enjoy my $300 Islander more than I would a $400 non-hacking, mineral crystal SKX.

[@GeeMood]

@@ErikL727 Facts! Exactly how I remember it. Upgraded with nh35s/356s, sapphire crystal, etc.

[@vincesacca5025]

I have some very nice Quality homage watches. They have Seiko NH35 and NH36 movements. The finish and comments I get from people are very nice. I have only spent a small amount and a lot of watches costing 3 times as much have these same movememts. You got to shop around.

[@omahenbarosh]

I've always wanted a luxury watch but couldn't justify the price. That's why I turned to gussl, and I'm so glad I did. Their replica watches look and feel just like the real thing, but at a fraction of the cost.

[@davidwinfield7317]

I love love love the TGV/Mark discussions. You’re the perfect couple, you bring out the best in each other. Completely agree, have always thought of “homage” being on a scale. Wouldn’t have gone about the grading in quite the same fashion, but would’ve come up with the same ranking!

[@billsiviter9272]

I have a Bliger Explorer GMT with a SEIKO nh34 movement. it has a great sliding micro adjuster on the bracelet and for £80 it's a bargain. I also have a Steinhart rolex GMT homage with a swiss ETA movement for £250 second hand. Both are great watches keep good time and a fraction of the cost of a Rolex which I never could afford.

[@Sar0]

I own a steinhart and will probably give san martin a try. You can enjoy a swiss movement watch between 500-1000 & a nice NH or Chinese clone between 200-500 . Way better than invicta, Fossil, etc etc.

[@stephenhaynes603]

Got the pagani IWC homage and i have to say its amazing very well made, all works well .. im looking at there moon watch as a possible next purchase. also a mention i would say specht and sohne are also a very good company in germany there doing some lovely monaco and patek models. 😛

[@willmarshall4685]

Also….I’m dyslexic as well and it’s great to see you not only owning it, but in a way celebrating it…(we use the word it too often because IT is easier than rummaging around our brain for the proper word.)

[@laurencehogg6010]

My daughter is dyslexic. Google 'dyslexic thinking' - you'll find many businesses now view it as an asset, hiring people with dyslexia because they think in a completely different way to others and that's very valuable to a forward-thinking business. Take care.

[@jb678901]

There is a really terrific watch from Seestern (aka Sugess) with model No. S435 that has been called a "homage" of the Glashutte SeaQ. The SeaQ being a "reboot" of a vintage GUB/Glashutte diver watch from the late 1960's, when that company was under the boot of the GDR (East Germany). However, that vintage diver seems to resemble another French Navy dive watch from Le Forban Sécurité Mer, introduced in 1966. Therefore, one might conclude the SeaQ is a homage of a East German "replica" or a homage of Le Forban Sécurité Mer...and that the Seestern S435 is either a homage or a homage of a homage. In any event, I have enjoyed my Glashutte Senator (39-44-03-11-04) since 2008...a fantastic dress watch in my humble view. I also purchased the Seestern S435 (with SeaGull ST2130) from the Sugess Official Store on Aliexpress, for US$200. Excellent specs/fit/finish, and an absolute steal at this price point. Wearing it right now and frankly, I cannot understand how this company can produce such a fine watch at this price point.

[@mariooo2012]

San Martin have some homages, some original designs, and a lot of between. I would not consider them as a straight homage company

[@richarddrew8351]

Great video I only just stumbled across. it's such a nuanced area beyond the outright fakes.

[@scotty88lp]

How about a video on the girard-perregaux laureato?

[@jorgec55]

Interesting video/conversation although I do not agree with all of it. It's been documented that San Martin, in most of their homage watches, has the quality of some swiss made homages like Steinhart or the Seiko turtle models and without the pesky misaligned bezels or dials. And they do it for less than half the price...

[@laurencehogg6010]

Agreed. My San Martin Willard homagething even has a capped seconds hand and its 1/5 the price of the seiko.

[@sivanstar]

I think for me and allot of other enthusiasts its allot abt budget. I have a few homage watches from seestern like the GS diver and i will never let myself own one. So having some of that unique spark on my wrist scratches that itch. In general, unique designs are rare. I come from the automotive industry and every manufacturer gets inspiration from others. I feel its the same in thebwatch world, that said i will never own a watch the a crappy movement thats where i draw my line. Because worst case i chop it and will use the movement for something else.. I love these episodes, Marc is my man! So honest and down to earth! Great show!

[@darrenhojnacki6636]

Well done, great discussion. The thing is for a replica homage watch is that I don’t want to buy an obvious homage that is more than 10-15% price of the watch it is homaging

[@briancarpenter1255]

Great video as always. I agree with TGV in regards to Lorier doing vintage inspired pieces having owned a Falcon 2 model, they just do it so well.

[@kevinjamesdawes7223]

Just bought a tandorio 38mm diver. Sterile dial, for obvious reasons, £60. Astonishing value and can stand next to my presage anyday. Wish I could send a picture. Sold my tag heuer auto 2000 chrono so I'm buying again and at less than the vat on the presage had to give it a go. I'll say again. Astonishing.

[@matthewgates4130]

This is how to make a fun video. Great job fellas!

[@FELIX4764]

A very informative and interesting video. Yourself and Mark gave me some food for thought on your scores regarding different watch 'types' Thanks.

[@stevegroll9213]

I respect your opinion, but consider it from a regular guy's point of view... #1 If the homage watch makes people happy and gets them into the hobby...bravo! #2 Most people that buy an homage will never spend $5k-$15k+ for the real thing so cannibalization of the brand is minimal at most. #3 A decent homage like a San Martin is good quality and you can wear it everyday without fear of theft or damage. #4 There is also the chance that one day later on in their life, the homage buyer WILL buy the original. I own Omega, Lorier, Seiko, Hamilton, and still own an homage brand as well. I love what Islander is doing too. Nothing like a nicer looking daily driver watch...👍 Love what you guys do and keep it up!

[@chronocommander007]

I'm all against replica watches but I'm okay with hommages, especially if they are of watches that are no longer in production. I love my Steeldive SD 1969 and it's the watch I wear most often. Another hommage I really like is the Seestern Explorer 2 hommage. Both watches have automatic Seiko movemenets. I also like the Sugess's Breitling Top Time hommage with the very good Seagull ST1908 handwinding movement.

[@mikefleissner4415]

Intro is genius.fine actors

[@liamstrain]

The Bulova Super Seville from the 1970s is a direct homage to the Rolex President - but as a heritage brand, I'm still comfortable wearing it. Good discussion fellas.

[@nixtr3sharma]

Anyone know what the podcast mentioned at 18:10 is?

[@pilotjpbiv7600]

I am wonder the same thing. Wondering if its Theo and....some other kid?

[@adrianmclure9548]

Very good video and spot in for where “types” of watches and not necessarily brands ranked. A message/request for Marc…I have notification turned on for Islander watches and am waiting for ISL-155 to be in stock again…please make it soon 🙏❤

[@twstrchasr]

At 24:38 the term you are looking for is a "limiting factor" with off the shelf movements.

[@THEMADWATCHCOLLECTOR]

Great show fellas . It’s a murky mucky sea out there when we try to explain Homages!!! It was great to watch!!

[@andrewbarnes5802]

With over half a million subscribers to this channel, I'm sure we can crowd fund a villa in Tuscany just to hear TGV review a Pagani Design Daytona homage.

[@legendarymoji]

I have no idea how TGV does the Hugo voice 😂😂😂

[@andrewbarnes5802]

Bringing up the pooper.... I got a Redunae which is a homage/replica of the Captain Willard and for around 2k less than a 1970's beat up Seiko, I love it.

[@tonythomas2510]

So glad I caught this at the right time. You should have my uncle on. He has a gold Invicta sub and thinks it's the best watch in the world 🤣🤣. Going to start watching now. Hope you're well TGV

[@kostasfilippou8955]

Marc we need an eu warehouse for islanders🙏

[@555tc555]

Great video guys. Years back I bought a Helson Sharkmaster 600 Ploprof. The real vintage one would so be my cup of tea but just can‘t afford it. And omega just released the modern ploprof around that time which doesn’t look as good as the vintage one. I asked myself the sane questions back then. Is it just a blunt copy? Is it worth it? I really enjoy the Helson with its saphire glas and great lume. Last year I bought a titanium Heimdallr Sea ghost NTTD dive watch. For the price a great watch with enough small differences to the omega NTTD Seamaster to have its own vibe. It definitely scratches the itch for me for the real NTTD which is way to expensive for what the watch has to offer. So as a watch collector with quite some vintage watches like Omega’s,Zenith’s, Mido or Stowa’s (yes we need a antidote 😂), this way I can have more different watches ann enjoy these, compared to selling all my watches to buy one or two new A brand watches.

[@zanehodgess7313]

I own a bunch of homage watches, my top 5 are Proxima, San Martin, ixdao, cronos and baltany. I would include Steinhart, smiths and squale if non Chinese are in the mix