Making Picture Frames with the Festool CSC SYS 50EBI Table Saw: Is this saw any good?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi all, Another awesome video for you, this time putting the table saw through its paces. Enjoy - look forward to your thoughts.

[@carenbarnet378]

Thanks for an informative video. You have answered my question of how to make picture frames on this versatile portable saw. I absolutely love mine.

[@kylereed3577]

This has been the best showing of this saw I have seen. Thanks for another great video.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you Kyle, That is very kind of you. Cheers Andy

[@ness-ee]

Just for those who don’t have mount board or a mount board cutter, or prefer to hang prints without mount board, you can make a boxed frame. This involves cutting deeper rebates and then a bead to insert between the frame and the glass. Then you can hang your print on the backboard without the fear that the ink will stick to the glass.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, Thank you for the tip, yes I have made a few of those - they are also great for craft projects. Where you want give depth to the frames. Exactly the same technique you have outlined but a second deeper need between the glass and the backing board. Cheers Andy

[@josephKEOarthur]

very well organized. and even if you dont own a fesTool table saw. A lot can be learned from this video. Well done mate 🎉

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you, Cheers Andy

[@adamwaldon5563]

Great video! Cheers from Los Angeles CA. Can’t wait to see more!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you for the kind comments.

[@AB-nu5we]

So far, you've given the best usage demo's of this saw that I've seen on any KZbin channel. Hopefully you'll be running more projects on it in the future. Your project came out very nice too.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you, I will be building a cabinet for this saw in the near future, that will really test this saw. Reasonable size stock, lots of tenons, rebates, cross cuts, rip cuts. It will really push the saw. After that it will become another tool in my workflow, Sinai am sure it will pop up now and then :-) Cheers Andy

[@sander7991]

Great video! I recently started using the 8 amp batteries and they are great! They are not cheap but last so much longer.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you, The 8 amp could be a good shout. Cheers Andy

[@mudz678]

I’m thinking I’ll stir the pot a bit. First of all, I’ve been using power tools for about 5 decades as a hobby woodworker. Secondly, I’m not a fanboy of any tool manufacturer, so don’t write me off as being that. In cordless tools I have Milwaukee, Makita, and Bosch. I’m not a fan of Dewalt cordless. My belief is that NO manufacturer makes “the best” of every type of tool. I research potential tool purchases to excess….but it pays off. For about 40 years I used a General 350 table saw….10” blade. The thing is a beast….rock solid….dead accurate. Circumstances caused me to lose access to this saw, and I’m currently limited to a small work space in the corner of a double garage. Tool size suddenly matters very much. My 14” Rikon bandsaw is now a 10” table mounted Rikon, as an example. In January of this year, after much research, I hesitantly purchased a Dewalt 8 1/4” model DWE7485, and was very pleasantly surprised by the accuracy of the little thing….very impressive, and easy to move around at ~22 kg. The blade on this thing rotates at a blazing 5800 rpm, and it slices through SOFTwoods very nicely. Now we arrive at one of my concerns about this small Festool saw….and all tiny table saws for that matter. For all their engineering prowess, even Festool can’t overcome the limitations of physics. Small saws REQUIRE physically small motors, and all motors have power output limitations, and the smaller the motor….the less maximum power. Back to my Dewalt 7485….I have a mystery hardwood that came to me as a 6’ long 4”x4” square….very heavy for its size…very hard. I was able to take a half inch slice off it, but it was a battle. I then set about making more precise cuts from this 1/2” board. I was trimming a bit off, along the length of a 3’ long piece, and the saw was not happy…I had to “fight it” by very carefully controlling my feed rate, while carefully watching the board’s position relative to the fence and the blade. That’s when I fed the tip of my index finger into the blade, because I was distracted by trying to overcome the saw’s limitations. So, yesterday I sold the Dewalt 7485 and bought a 10” Dewalt DWE 7491. What a difference….this one spins at 4800 rpm, and eats any wood I throw at it….including my mystery hardwood, without me “fighting it”. Again….it was very accurate right out of the box. My conclusion…if you’re cutting softer woods, and you’re starting with pieces already milled to a small, very manageable size, then go for a tiny saw, IF you absolutely need to because of available space, but do NOT expect one of these to do what a larger saw can do….not going to happen. If you can manage a SLIGHTLY larger saw, then do what I’ve done. You will not be disappointed. My other worry about the Festool….all that electronically controlled gimmickry is scary. A certain number ARE going to fail….that’s a fact…and I’m unaware of any mechanical override, which means it’s suddenly a boat anchor..(too large for a paperweight….haha).

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, Great input and you are bang on with your conclusion. This saw is perfect for lighter duty activity that require precision. I also have the Dewalt and it is a workhorse, I will wheel out the Dewalt when I need its power - but the Festool will be the day to day tool. Time will tell on the reliability of the Festool - but track record of quality in general is pretty high. I agree do your research and get the best tool for the job in your price budget - don’t blindly follow the brand. So sorry to hear about your finger, but good to see you came back to the trade. Thank you for taking the time to comment. Andy

[@mudz678]

@@TheWoodgrafter Thanks for your reply, it’s appreciated. I made my comment because I was getting the impression, from comments on your channel and another, that people were getting the idea that a small saw, if it was a quality product, could pretty much do anything. My experiment with this idea only cost me a few hundred Canadian dollars….and a now numb fingertip….no big deal at the end of the day. It’d be significantly more irritating if a person came to the same conclusion after laying out the cost of the Festool. FWIW, I used double sided tape to attach an auxiliary wooden fence to the Dewalt fence, and had it sticking out the front of the saw by about a foot. This greatly helped with steadying the material when ripping, and I suspect it might have prevented my finger injury. Even though my new Dewalt has a larger table area in front of the blade (it’s enough that it’s noticeably easier to control the board) I’m going to extend this fence too. Keep up the good work….looking forward to future videos 👍🏼.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

@mudz678 Thank you, I added the Incra mitre sled to my Dewalt, that really helped with the cross cuts, precision and safety. It also added additional support post and pre cut. Cheers Andy

[@eirikmangseth7952]

The deWalt clocks in at approximately 105 dB. The Festool at approximately 80 dB. That’s a huge difference. Secondly, Festool has never marketed the 50 as an alternative to e.g. the 7491. For that, they have other models, so be sure to compare apples with apples. FYI, I don’t own the 50 and are not affiliated with Festool in any way. However, I am looking for a quiet table saw for use in my basement for lighter woodwork and the 50 might be a good alternative if I can afford it.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Price aside, itvisnoefect for the home shop where lighter precise work is the order of the day. Cheers. Andy

[@gregfraser3852]

Excellent video thanks

[@paulmaryon9088]

Great video, thank you, would love to see this saw in 240v form, rather hoping someone clever can come up with a way of doing that! Also loving the Benchdogs products, look forward to your review of their fence, thanks again, stay lucky

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thanks Paul, I think Peter Millard over at ten minutes would agree on the 240v thought. The lack of the plug is his biggest gripe with this saw. If it did have a 240v version I wouldn’t hesitate. Cheers Andy

[@paulmaryon9088]

Haha, yes I've heard Peter griping about this! Keep up the good work, and thanks again@@TheWoodgrafter

[@HarveyJohnWillmott]

Nice one mate. How do you find the battery life? I have a TSC55 and a KSC 60, so assume it’s probably similar to those.

[@michael.knight]

Nice video Andy. The saw is even smaller than I expected. Considering replacing my old Metabo table saw with this one just for the size saving (small workshop here too). Given I already have festool batteries and charger the price is still high (1300 EUR for the basic version), but not actually that extreme given the tech inside.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thanks Michael. Yes it is an investment, But I have no regrets, it is a great size that punches way above its weight for its size. If you have the batteries already, it is worth looking at. Shop around the street price keeps falling. Cheers Andy

[@bigmonkey999888]

Hi Andy if you watch Peter Millard he made a stop block that utilities the fence. I 3D printed my own. Steve

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Cheers Steve, Yes I saw that video, But ideally I don’t want to swap out the rip fence. I still can’t understand why Festool didn’t use the standard extrusion for the fences that takes their standard flag stop. Huge oversight in my opinion. Cheers Andy

[@TLDRDad]

I have been experiencing and have seen other post on the FOG forum problems with the sliding table not being level, right to left (not front to back - control panel to dust port). Was yours level out of the box? Did you shim it?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, A few folks have reported that to me as well, I checked this the other day and mine is flat out of the box both in terms of left to right - but also flat. A few folks have a dip in the centre of the sliding table. I haven’t seen any Festool statement around this though.

[@TLDRDad]

I posted about this on FOG and Festools response to me was ‘send it in’.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

@@TLDRDad Yes a few people have sent there’s in and had the same problem, even with a replacement item. I can’t help but wonder if the earlier machines had a quality control issue on the tables. Perhaps fixed on later batches. As a matter of interest, did you send it in and what was the verdict ? Cheers Andy

[@TLDRDad]

Andy, I actually waited versus purchasing on release date hoping to avoid initial release problems. What I can’t figure is how all the influencers who received saws and those making content all ‘lucked out’ whereas those who have purchased ours are not having the same experience. It is possible many aren’t aware as we are talking about ~.5 of a degree and some may not care all that much since the tolerances are still very good. As for my ‘resolution’ on FOG we have been having a discussion and some of us have added a ‘shim’ to see what the resolution might be and one group member sent there saw in and we are awaiting their return to see what the result is before we follow suit.

[@johnfstockland]

Do you still like the saw? Wonder how your cabinet build went for this. I'm considering buying this but wonder if it will be too limited to just small projects like picture frames.

[@studioviper3016]

Very nice video! I am tempted by this as my first shop tablesaw, but im worried it wont be able to handle big cuts as well as a 'proper' tablesaw. Also very annoying that its battery only.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you for taking the time to comment. It is a very good saw, and it will handle big cuts. I ran some 60mm walnut through it for a box project (flipping the the stock to get the depth) and it didn’t even blink. I have also ripped 25mm Oak with no issues. The battery life is the elephant in the room. Although it has the power to make big cuts, the bigger the cut the higher the battery drain. I don’t think the batteries would last half a day with consistent use on large stock. But to be fair, the saw is not really designed for that, it is aimed much more as a very portable saw for finish type carpentry where you need something compact, accurate and portable on the job site. For that it is awesome. It translates to my small workshop very well, but it is one of many tools in my work flow. The band saw and track saw will still manage my larger rip cuts, and the Capex will most likely still manage many of my cross cuts. This saw excels in accurate repeatable cuts, and working on smaller projects where accuracy is essential. I will be building a cabinet for this saw in the near future, and I will use this saw to build the cabinet. So lots of rips, cross, tenons, rebates in reasonable size stock. That will be a good test for it. Cheers Andy

[@studioviper3016]

Thanks for the helpful reply... Food for thought!

[@sander7991]

Use the 8 amp batteries, they are great! Not cheap but great.

[@paultay23]

Nice one Andy... it is your logical working method (not the maths) that is useful to other I believe.. looks good

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Cheers Paul, All complex projects are just many simple steps :-) Hope all is OK with you and the family. Andy

[@bigmonkey999888]

Hi Andy not been picky but the blade kerf is 1.8mm Steve

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you Steve, that would also explain why my cuts on the Track saw are .4 mm out :-)

[@robertpearce802]

@@TheWoodgrafter I have just checked the Festool UK website and it looks like this table saw uses the same 1.8mm blades as the latest track saws. Having seen your review and many others, last Friday I decided to purchase the saw taking advantage of an already good price plus extra 5% Halloween discount over the weekend. It turned up within 24 hours after a journey of over 400km (yes metric, I am 76 years old but defiantly and definitely metric). This service was so good that I have not had time to use it yet but will be following your calibration video. Benchdogs fence also on order.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Nice one Robert, Drop me a note and let me know how you get on. Andy

[@ghas4151]

Would you still need a mitre with this saw? I’m deciding whether to get this or a Kapex as a beginner. I don’t have a workshop so I need something to work “on site”.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hey there, The saw comes with a mitre, and to be honest it is pretty accurate. I survived for years with a capex and a track saw. You will get more versatility out of that combination than the table saw. But it really depends on the type of work you are doing. Cheers Andy

[@ghas4151]

@@TheWoodgrafter Thank Andy, My original plan was to get the Kapex with the TS60 track saw and then I saw this and have been impressed ever since. Will the Kapex offer better accuracy for mitre cuts? This is going to be my first major purchase and I’ll only be able to afford one of the two setups for now. If I get the CSC SYS 50 I’ll probably get a cheaper circular saw for bigger rough cuts.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

I think the table saw gives more accuracy than the Kapex, that digital adjustment is game changing. You saw the quality of the joints in this video - they were straight off the saw no fettling. Depending on budget, this saw and the battery Kapex would be interesting for portable work.

[@ghas4151]

@@TheWoodgrafterbut would you need a mitre with this table saw? Or is there an advantage to having a Kapex. My choice would be either this table alone for now or a Kapex 120 with the TS60 track saw. Unfortunately won’t be able to afford both the table and the Kapex just yet.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

The table comes with a mitre, but the blade also tilts to about -5 to around 50 degrees from memory, so you can make some pretty compound mitre cuts on the machine. Does that help?

[@Philomathe]

Hello, thanks a lot for your video. Small addition: I’m a noob, but for the last part, when you cut it to size, I think you could have put the right guide into the « low » position (unclip it and then clip it again on the side). That was it would have been possible (maybe) to push it easily?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Phil, Not sure I am with you, yes you can flip the right hand guard in the way you are saying and there are reasons why you would want to do that. There are also numerous ways of cutting to size on the saw. I honestly can’t remember the technique I used in this video, but I tend to use the cross cut feature for this with some sort of repeatable stop. You should avoid using the cross cut mitre and the rip fence at the same time, as the off cut gets caught between the rip fence and the blade and tends to fly out as a high speed projectile. Let me know if I have missed your point, and it’s great to meet you. Andy

[@woodysoft3585]

No "Sketch Up" design Andy ? 😂. Great video as usual, really appreciated

[@TheWoodgrafter]

What ????? Are you not impressed with my awesome traditional hand drawn design skills…. You just can’t please some folks. 😄😄 Thank you for the comment.

[@kevinwillis6707]

i think its too expensive for a saw with such small capacities, why they didnt use a rack and pinion fence ill never know, and a mains lead would be a help. it will be interesting to see how the electronics hold up over time.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thanks Kevin, If they have longevity, then those electrics really make this one accurate machine. Don’t forget this is designed as an accurate portable table saw for finish carpentry etc. So isn’t designed to replace a shop saw or manage mega cuts over a long period of time. I am surprised that they didn’t make a mains version of this machine though, I guess a compromise for portability. And yes, that rip fence could have been better in a number of ways. Cheers Andy

[@kevinwillis6707]

thanks andy for the reply, im just struggling to see what you would cut as a mobile fitter other than small fillets and fillers when fitting kitchens or trimming round doors etc,i like some things about the saw but if it was a little bigger and say had the capacity of a dewalt 745 i think they would sell a lot more,they seem to be obsessed with fitting it into a systainer format. i bet its quieter than the dewalt though! 😄cheers @@TheWoodgrafter

[@TheWoodgrafter]

@kevinwillis6707 LoL it is a lot quieter, smoother and more accurate than the Dewalt with a lot less mess. But it is one big systainer - so not sure if that is a value add - I guess it does keep the accessories together 🤔

[@zerblatt3365]

The cerf of the blade is 1,8mm

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you, You are not the first to correct that error :-) Cheers Andy

[@robv.7864]

I have one. Do not buy - there are frequent problems with the sliding table.The sliding table itself is "cold drawn" (if that is the correct phrase in english) aluminum and the chance that such a table is flat without further correction is minimal. I already am on my second table and still have problems with it, the sliding table mechanism is faulty and correcting it is possible to some extend but the whole mechanism is highly unaccessable. Festool screwed up with this one.

[@keith7630]

Thanks for your feedback. Helps me with my decision making.

[@bmartinot]

Good for making dolls houses if your minted.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Can’t say I’ve ever made a dolls house 🤔🤔🤔

[@bmartinot]

@@TheWoodgrafter perfect tool for the job though.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

@bmartinot yes it would be, it is a great craft saw, very quite, accurate and easy to use - but at a price for the hobbyist.

[@andrewlee4938]

Keep your hands off the blade 😮

[@TheWoodgrafter]

You aren’t the first to say that about this video. Good call Andy