A Musical WORSE than Mean Girls (2024) - Joker: Folie a Deux

Joker 2 aka Joker: Folie a Deux is a terrible movie musical. But it's not terrible BECAUSE it's a musical. So let's break down specifically how this movie fails to succeed where others in the musical genre succeeded.
I'm Dylan, and THIS is the Writer's Block.
Written & Edited ---------------------- Dylan Gregory ‪@TheWritersBlockOfficial‬

[@TheWritersBlockOfficial]

Is Hollywood wrong about Musicals? Or should they stick to the stage???

[@eatatjoes6751]

They’re wrong about good musicals.

[@pawnhearts8785]

If Hazbin Hotel proves anything, it's that you just have to make your musical good and/or enjoyable for people to care and adore it.

[@bemiatto67]

I mean, Chicago won the Oscar for Best Picture

[@breawycker]

​@@bemiatto67look I love the movie version of Chicago but that movie won because of Harvey

[@breawycker]

Movie musicals can work and do work. Like In the Heights or animated Disney musicals (Wish not withstanding). Hollywood just doesn't get musicials

[@nameless-ck3du]

such a shame since i genuinely enjoy musicals but so many directors dont know how to direct a musical and it ends up shitty. guess ill be sticking to mamma mia, the greatest showman, and tangled forever.

[@toyosibee.mp3]

THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT THE WEIRD TALK-SINGING! I was kind of shocked in MOST of Gaga's numbers in this film, she sounds...bad?? But not necessarily bad, just pitchy (like you said) and weirdly airy, like she's not actually singing or is moreso whisper-singing. 'Gonna Build a Mountain' is one of the best numbers in this film simply because they actually get to sing and vibe with the instrumental instead of just...standing there and singing like they're trying not to disrupt the next door neighbors.

[@EagerCompass-mm7gj]

U do know she’d intentionally sang poorly because Lee is not a singer? Only those in Arthur’s mind is when Gaga sang well?

[@toyosibee.mp3]

@@EagerCompass-mm7gj You probably really like the singing style choices in Todd Hooper's Les Mis, huh?

[@KircherTalksEntertainment]

In the one scene where Arthur and Lee “sing” to each other through the Arkham visitation room, the only thing I could think of in that moment is what would happen if the diner scene in Heat had Robert de Niro and Al Pacino sing that dialogue to each other. Sounds awesome in theory, but would probably be cringe if shot and performed in the same way that it was in the actual movie. That’s exactly how it felt in Joker: Folie A Deux, and is indicative of how poorly the musical numbers fit overall.

[@pawnhearts8785]

That moment when Hazbin Hotel is now the best edgy musical of 2024

[@gogogogig]

well no…

[@thijmendol8248]

@@gogogogig Out of curiosity, which one would you say it is?

[@scizopenguin]

well thats such a bad idea that barely anyone has done it

[@pawnhearts8785]

@@gogogogig Yes

[@imechko_familia]

This timeline is cursed 😭

[@mrmusickhimself]

I love watching people go full "COPE ON A ROPE" and try to defend it. Nevermind the betrayal of character and that it retroactively taints the original film, it committed the WORST sin a movie can make: It was BORING. I asked the theater for a refund despite finishing the movie, and they were kind enough to accommodate me.

[@robertlauncher]

Having a sequel to a movie whose ambiguity was part of the point was the inherently bad idea here.

[@nickymo]

What’s ambiguous about Joker? he shouts the point of the movie out loud before shooting Murray in the face.

[@robertlauncher]

@@nickymo The fact that he’s an unreliable narrator, calling into question the entire series of events and their validity.

[@goober479]

@@robertlauncher the ambiguity is ended when his psychosis is revealed though. We get his motives pretty clearly.

[@robertlauncher]

@@goober479 If you want to interpret it that way, sure. But it’s also established with the Joker as a character that he keeps remembering his past differently. The entire movie could be the way he wants to see his life leading up to becoming the Joker, or a BS version he tells others to garner sympathy. The first movie left it open for interpretation. I’m not talking about his motives as shown at the end, I’m talking about the fact that you can’t entirely trust the story of a guy who breaks into delusions(Same with his initial standup scene where he imagined everyone laughing) and goes around unaliving people.

[@robertlauncher]

Unless you wanna tell me the whole girlfriend thing was a pointless side plot, which I don’t think so

[@aspacelex]

More like Junker! Got his ass.

[@NYCTOSEE]

Okay this was a banger LMFAO the “got his ass” killed me

[@holyalpaca750]

Hahahaha 😂😂

[@ArcaneMelody107]

My opinion is this depiction of joker is FAR too realistic. And I’m not talking about not falling into acid and all that jazz. Look at the caped crusader show for example. The Harley depiction is very realistic, but there’s still this dark whimsy about her Harley persona. The Batman movie works because Batman himself is a pretty down to earth realistic hero (but surrounded by somewhat fantastical villains). Taking those villains and pulling the lever to full realism…it just doesn’t work to me. To me these aren’t Joker (and Harley). They feel too real of people. Not saying most other depictions romanticize their mental illness, I’m far from saying that. These depictions are just…someone nee

[@ELFanatic]

Here's the real issue. the Joker was never a Joker movie. They slapped that in at the last second to make money. So now their aimless.

[@Vendetta_Armada80]

Rocky Horror Picture Show 75' is the best musical

[@FlymanMS]

I love how nothing in the trailer indicated that it was going to be a musical.

[@Teacher-Thayse]

Yes! I enjoy musicals, but I totally agree it should've indicated it has musical numbers...

[@maxwellcorben3261]

To many people it did. And even if it didn’t to you, it was announced way before its release that it would be a musical.

[@merlinho0t]

I knew it was going to be a musical because it was leaked that there was musical numbers in it?

[@eatatjoes6751]

The Lizzie McGuire Movie, right? Damn, I don’t know how well it holds up outside of the animated bits but even if it doesn’t it’s better than Joker’s weirdly bad musical, and I didn’t even watch the first one. As someone who doesn’t like musicals, can movie executives stop trying to hide them from the public? It pissed me off with the Mean Girls revival and it pisses me off now because it just feels condescending in the same way that a musical fan might have felt after they went to see Into the Woods’ film expecting music and no James Corden.

[@thatonepossum5766]

Yeah, I WANT to know if a movie is a musical, because I _like_ musicals. I’d be frustrated if I went to see a movie only to find out it’s a totally different genre than what was advertised. In fact, I’d feel downright scammed. Especially if it’s a bad movie.

[@eatatjoes6751]

@@thatonepossum5766 We both feel ripped off. Hell, the only reason I dislike musicals is because I just don’t enjoy them as much as other movies, but goddamn, enough with the faux à deux. If you’re a musical, just *be a musical.*

[@cheetah672]

SING TO ME PAOLO!!!!!! Your based taste in movies was not lost!

[@TheWritersBlockOfficial]

love to see it

[@EthanKirsch.]

The whole point of the musical numbers, besides the foile a deux, is a progression of Joker’s character from the first movie. He sings and dances, albeit more likely, but becomes more in tune with the music in him as the movie progresses. After Joker is fully embraced at the end of the first, he can’t fully stop. When he finds Harley, she seeks to be like Joker, so the pair express themselves through song. That was my takeaway. I enjoyed it.

[@lonellfletcher]

A musical worse than Mean Girls is Cats. It just doesn't get worse.

[@wiinterflowers4277]

Les Miserable was pretty awful too.

[@jovianmelendez]

​@@wiinterflowers4277 would you say it was... miserable?

[@lonellfletcher]

@@wiinterflowers4277 Les Mis defender here. Doesn't deserve the hate. Except for Russell Crowe.

[@darthtepes]

@@wiinterflowers4277 it was okay, but they should have made sure that ALL the cast can sing well enough.

[@johnaslover]

It’s not great but it’s definitely not worse than Mean Girls.

[@AlvaroIbacacheS]

I think Joker highlight some interesting things about musical movies. For many years musical movies has been look down upon, by the audience who believes know better and critics. But musicals are a hard genre to make, not everyone can make a musical movie and that’s why not many directors tries, because you need some sort of knowledge of how a musicals works in all their stages: the music, the choreography, the actors, the costumes, the stages, etc. It was a bold move from Phillips to attempt to do something he doesn’t have a knowledge of, but it wasn’t the right choice or the right material to begin with. He couldn’t put against two genres more different than the other one and that has such alienated fanbase as well, it’s like trying to do Fast and Furious the musical.

[@joshuaplumb9213]

For me at least, musicals are often an exploration of fantasy vs reality. If we go by this, I really think the musical numbers here work quite well considering the films themes centre A LOT on Arthur's fantasies and how his mental illnesses play into this, hell even the joker himself could be said to be a facade, meaning we don't know whether it's real or not. It's deliberately ambiguous if that makes sense. I completely get your points, but idk I thought the movie worked well as a dark inversion of musical tropes

[@Teacher-Thayse]

Good point!

[@lepersonnage371]

2:35 Arthur always had music in him, in the first movie it's shown a lot, so he doesn't need any outside motivation to sing, he's just full of music as it is, and always has been, that makes sense

[@toyosibee.mp3]

LET’S GOOOOOOOO

[@Rachel-xu4br]

I think a higher up said "musical" and the writer went "okay", but never wrote a musical in their entire life, nor did research in order to do so. Not only due to the lack of set up and explanation of why the Joker would suddenly be singing. However, typically in a Jukebox musicals, even they're not original, they typically pick songs that relate to that character(s) in the moment. Sometimes they even write the musical based off the songs they selected to have it make more sense. Across the Universe (a jukebox musical with all Beatles songs) is an excellent example of a jukebox musical done right. All the songs they chose are amazing, everyone sounds beautiful, all the songs go along with the plot. Looked it up out of curiosity and technically each writer has been involved in only one "musical" project. I say it in quote marks cause 8 mile is one of them and I don't know if I'd count that as a "musical".

[@theseanwardshow]

I loved the idea of it being a musical, thinking we were getting a movie about Joker and Harley on a rampage, and the musical aspect is how they see themselves. It made perfect sense until I saw the actual movie

[@lyricbot8513]

Honestly if the musical is bad but Lady Gaga's harlequin album is good it'll be the funniest possible outcome

[@let_me_ink]

Really tired of these non musical musicals. I thought they were doing the wisper singing and than turn it into a more classic musical production as the delusion grows, but for most of it, thats not true. Even the bigger show scenes, it doesnt feel musical. Side note, i thought it was interesting that they seem to reference Char and Amy Winehouse, both woman who argueably got taken advantage of by they partners, but harley is clearly the abuser in this version. It made me feel like the director was questioning the abuse of these woman I know its nitpicky, but if youre going to bring the Harley Joker deignamic into the real world and flipping it, im gonna read into it

[@Michael-sq3nf]

the joke maker didn't even tell a single joke

[@Lauren007E]

I mean if this film just followed Harley I'd be 100% on board for her to be singing. Just follow a woman who falls for a mad man and her watching his trial obsessively/trying to end up in the hospital with him so she can break him out and fix his broken heart. We already saw that the music in Arthur was expressed through uncomfortable dance not vocal singing

[@lorriechristian7164]

I enjoyed the film, but you've definitely given a lot of perspective on why it doesn't commit to the musical aspect as much as it should. Which is a shame because it could have easily been considered one of the best films of this year if it did. Hopefully something comes along and kicks off a film musical resurgance.

[@-heiheilego-]

Personally I love musicals and I think the speak-singing was ok cuz it’s also what we do naturally when showering or alone expressing. However I do find this movie’s musical numbers so frequently repetitive that I find them annoying and out of tone unlike what La la land achieved. I appreciate how the 2019 Joker dealt with music (the bathroom dancing, stairs dancing, Murray’s Franklin show), subtle yet effectively immersive, and I do love some songs of Joker 2 like Close to you and The Joker. Sadly many other songs feel overlong when few sentences of singing the song can already show the emotions and belting out the full song felt unnecessarily stretched, including For once in my life, Gonna build a mountain, and If you go away.

[@ThizbeSylvan]

i really enjoyed the movie. i don't understand the hate

[@TheWritersBlockOfficial]

That's dope! What did you enjoy about it?

[@totally3totally]

Thank god for this video. I can't stand watching another review hating on this film for being a musical rather than being a bad musical! Musical is amazing when it's done right.

[@allye9865]

I liked the movie but I wouldn't call it deep

[@holyalpaca750]

A lot of rude comments here. It's awesome and cool if the general audience enjoyed this movie but I know most musical folks will not, which is what this review is. It's a review from the viewpoint of a person who likes and engages with musicals thus evaluates the movie from a comparative standpoint with other musical movies they've seen. Before you dub him a hater and insult his content remember consuming media is a subjective experience based on each individuals personal life and past media consumption. A person who enjoys superhero movies and a person who enjoys musicals are going to have vastly different opinions about this movie and both of these opinions are valid and critically valuable. Same with musical folks, don't be rude to those who enjoyed the movie. Let's value each others opinions and coexist one argument doesn't need to invalidate another.

[@AuspexAstarte]

I’ve only seen the first one and I watched it alone and much after it was released, and without any preconceptions I enjoyed it for what it was and that was a cathartic unbound expression of shadow selves as a reaction to the shadow of corruption and hypocrisy in high positions who mask their dark selves in an abuse of their station, I’m sad that there was a musical aspect fell flat because otherwise I might have still been interested (edit: I think I shouldve have watched the movie first so I can make my own critical view, big rip!)

[@artofdrinking]

Shame because the first film was great

[@darthtepes]

Gone with the times when Victor/Victoria, Moulin Rouge, Chicago and Mamma Mia dilogy were smash hits... "we've done bad because people don't like musicals blah blah blah!"

[@darthtepes]

That awkward moment when you realize that Lizzie McGuire movie made an actual singer sing badly on purpose and Joker 2 made Lady Gaga sing badly because reasons🤣

[@ayeg-dp5to]

great video!!!

[@TheWritersBlockOfficial]

Thank you!

[@zahrahkhalid6333]

The idea of delusions as musical numbers can work well. Crazy Ex Girlfriend had full musical numbers represented in the character's head

[@NYCTOSEE]

Here’s the thing.. this COULD be a musical. Batman & musicals are very intertwined. There have been Batman musicals. Shit, even Justice League & B:TAS had musical elements. One of the most iconic parts of Arleen Sorkin’s character is the episode of B:TAS Harlequinade! The issue with this is that Todd Phillips was pissy that his Taxi Driver ripoff film had to bank off of DC’s property because it was “popular” (he only used the Joker to tell this story in the original because it was popular) & he doesn’t actually like DC. So now he’s taking it out on us, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this movie was made to flop, since him and Joaquin were both ADAMANT they didn’t want a sequel! If this one doesn’t do good at the box office? Boom, I get a paycheck and the studio doesn’t call to ask me to do a third, I can build a portfolio with two Joker movies under my belt. It’d be genius if it wasn’t such a spiteful waste of time. This isn’t just a middle finger to a money hungry studio, it’s a middle finger to musicals and a middle finger to the audience paying their hard earned money for this film YOU didn’t want to make! It’s clear the only reason they’re making Arthur Fleck “not the Joker” because they wanted there to be conflict, because if this followed the plot of the first movie where he IS the Joker, there would be no reason for Lee to not like him! Also, that serenading sequence could’ve been done so well if it didn’t weirdly end with Harley shooting the Joker… The Joker is a narcissist (in every other iteration of his relationship with Harley, at least). I can absolutely see him doing a duet with Harley and getting mad when she turns her attention to the audience since he wants her attention on HIM. It could’ve easily been “he gets mad at her for looking away, she apologizes and returns her attention to him, he makes some snippy remark like ‘don’t do it again’ song finishes SCENE END”. You wanna build conflict around that?? Have him push Harley around a bit, or even be too dependent or have her be too clingy or something… OR make it a them against the world story?? Why have Harley Quinn in this if she’s not HARLEY QUINN?? The outfits are horrific too. The Joker gets these outfits that look reminiscent of The Joker… meanwhile Harley’s in these weird 1960s presidential suits… this whole movie is a spiteful mess and as a fan of Harley & musicals, it pisses me off. So much wasted potential. Also, right on the money about the first Joker being pretentious. It’s giving Todd Phillips just showed his ass on this one and now everyone can see how pretentious he is because god forbid people like the villain HE made.

[@Teacher-Thayse]

I agree with the points brought in this video and I would change a couple of things in this movie, but I overall enjoyed it. Bear with me! 😅

[@HayLeesHomeMade]

I was almost an extra in mean girls 2024, didn't get a chance because we were waiting on hearing from some friends and they never got back to me

[@stellviahohenheim]

You must offer yourself to get roles in Hollywood

[@owenorders5202]

They should have thrown out the movie and just released the entirely more interesting trailers to movie theatres, plus the outtakes and deleted scenes

[@Tac_Nyan]

ehm... its actually MAL....

[@angyvirtu3593]

I didn't hate the movie, but this was a good critique.

[@TheWritersBlockOfficial]

Thank you

[@MCLegoboy]

I already didn't have fun not having fun watching the first movie, it just didn't really connect with me like it seemed to with so many people, so there was no way I was interested in a sequel, and after hearing so many bad things, I'm not at all interested even more. And yet, that's the entire reason I want to see it because now it's so bad, I kind of want to see just how bad it is. Maybe that's the point of the movie, it's all a joke. The movie is just the absolute opposite of what came before because there was never supposed to be a sequel in the first place, and now everyone can laugh at Warner Bros. for ever doing this. And instead of just running away to say that he had nothing to do with it, the director stayed to make sure that every cent was wasted just so that someone else didn't get all the flack because it's his joke, not their failure. I can't say for sure because I haven't seen the movie, but maybe this is the most Joker movie ever because it only makes sense to the one telling the joke.

[@crystalclear6661]

WHY JUST WHY?

[@marleneleya2070]

That wasn't Evie that was Mal lol

[@TheWritersBlockOfficial]

Dang my bad. I always confuse their names when talking about the movies

[@Chibi_Mercury]

i never heard of this lol

[@joker18524]

Wrong on all accounts

[@swazdo_lah7299]

i disagree

[@Wackaz]

Now I just want to watch this even more. Often if the masses don't understand it, it has something more interesting to say and is thus a better piece of cinema.

[@ShadwRavn]

Or it s just bad

[@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom]

You say that of Borderlands too?

[@ShadwRavn]

@@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom he will cook a literal piece of shit because everyone saying it tastes bad makes him want to eat is even more. Often if the masses don t understand the refined taste of shit it has something more interesting to make you feel and is this a better meal

[@mikeregan3265]

Another copy cat "bad" review from a dissapointed wannabe film critic..

[@Aster_Risk]

Actually listen to the critique. This is not a bad review. It's why this didn't work well as a musical. You just want to tune out anything that isn't overwhelming, rapturous praise. You're the problem.

[@rottenbabylon]

It was awesome. Y'all were just stoked to trash this film There's so much good in it!

[@Lauren007E]

What did you like in particular?

[@toddofdover1]

work on your delivery, your Valley girl stress at the end of sentences was annoying

[@Aster_Risk]

That's incredibly childish. Also, you don't know what a Valley Girl accent sounds like.